Why is this game so grindy and time-gated?

[Firebeard.1746]

So i've been casual(ish) in this game on and off for a couple years. I used to primarily play unranked pvp. Lately i came back on the heels of BFA hoping for something better.

 

What fascinated me about this game was that legendaries allowed you to change your build at-will and i wanted to start unlocking them so i could experiment. They also seemed like a form of permanent progression which i also liked because WoW likes to flush everything you've done down the toilet. I was hoping to make full legendary sets for a few characters so i could fully experiment with them. Alas, this looks like a terrible idea. I'm starting to burn out really fast working on the armor:

 

So my only 2 options are WvW or PvP seasons. I feel like my schedule isn't consistent enough for raiding and everything i read is pugging them sucks.

 

I came late to the game last season because i didn't know what i was doing and quite frankly it felt toxic. Players, when they talked were toxic, i beleive i saw instances of cheating out in the open commonly and the matchmaking system was just epic fail: most of the time matches weren't even close along with it failing at getting a 50% win rate. Imo, it should be matching people pretty evenly and the better players start to float up in rank by *occasionally * winning a couple matches in a row. That way no one feels like they've hit a wall. But basically you get these really bad losing streaks where you're often paired against the players who keep winning. It's like the biggest wtf i've ever experienced in matchmaking on ANY game.

 

I normally enjoy pvp but the ranked experience literally stole the fun out of it. I hoped WvW would be my savior.

 

Alas, no. In addition to having to maintain a participation level 3, which can be a struggle if groups aren't forming and you die too much, you have to play at leadt 30 hours a week to get all of your tickets! At least if you're 2nd in the match and not outnumbered:

1450 pips * 5 minutes/4 pips * 1 hour/60 minutes = 30.2 hours.

 

And it takes 21 weeks to get the armor set, then you need another 6000 tickets wich is like another 18 weeks or so. So it takes playing this game like a job to for almost a year to get the armor set, not even weapons.

 

This isn't including trying to unlock the mounts (warclaw, skyscale) or just trying to complete all the living world seasons i missed so i understand the game better. Or even unlocking the other mounts.

 

So i'm feeling really discouraged. What's the point of having a game with so much potential build diversity when the only way to truly explore it is gated behind so much content that is both time gated and ridiculously grindy? This game is enjoyable but end game progression quickly becomes a chore if you want to delve into it.

[Blocki.4931]

It's less of a time gate but more of a long term progression goal. Participation in WvW is so braindead you could spend all 30 of those hours running between shrines or Veterans and kill them, then afk until they or another one respawn. You don't need big groups for anything. If you're alone it's all about camp capturing.

 

Basically you went head first to the worst possible way of acquiring legendary gear.

[Voltekka.2375]

Do pve raids, get leggy armor much faster. Problem solved.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> It's less of a time gate but more of a long term progression goal. Participation in WvW is so braindead you could spend all 30 of those hours running between shrines or Veterans and kill them, then afk until they or another one respawn. You don't need big groups for anything. If you're alone it's all about camp capturing.

>

> Basically you went head first to the worst possible way of acquiring legendary gear.

 

This. Gear acquisition in WvW is terribly hilarious.

 

D:

[Turkeyspit.3965]

It's like walking into a car dealership and asking why the Lexus is so expensive....

 

Legendary gear is completely optional, and as such, ANET is free to make the acquisition thereof as long and as costly as they feel is good for the game. The player has the choice to either do what is required, or opt for ascended armor which has identical stats, or live with exotic armor, for which all end game content (minus Fractals T2 or higher) is balanced.

 

Guild Wars 2 is only grindy if you want the prestige items, and that is completely the choice of the player.

 

If you shift your target away from legendary items, you'll find this game is probably the least grindy and least time gated MMO title around.

 

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> It's less of a time gate but more of a long term progression goal.

 

This. An MMO without long-term goals usually fails to hold players over time, which is not good for the bottom line. Legendary gear is the ultimate reward in the game. If it is not time-intensive, then nothing should be.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I applaud the OP for their dedication. I can't support their claim based on the specific example they have offered.

****

 

The OP has set for themself an extreme goal, the marathon of MMO goals:

> to make full legendary sets for a few characters

 

Of course that is going to take major amounts of time. Even a single piece of legendary gear is intended as an **optional**, long-term goal. Working on even a single set of armor plus a single weapon set is a major undertaking for the vast majority of players.

 

 

[Firebeard.1746]

Ya'll missed where i asked the point of it being long term progression if i can't know what my character is capable of without it. Managing that many gear sets isn't tractable. I tried raiding once but was turned down because i wasn't a healer (didn't have the set or appropriate class for it)

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> Ya'll missed where i asked the point of it being long term progression if i can't know what my character is capable of without it. Managing that many gear sets isn't tractable. I tried raiding once but was turned down because i wasn't a healer (didn't have the set or appropriate class for it)

 

You don't randomly have to change your gear. You just have to know which role you are going for. If you try joining a raid that tells you they need healers but you don't even play nor intent to play one then.. what do you expect?

[Klipso.8653]

WvW is for fun, PvE is for gold (if you can suffer the farm)

[VDAC.2137]

> @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> Ya'll missed where i asked the point of it being long term progression if i can't know what my character is capable of without it. Managing that many gear sets isn't tractable. I tried raiding once but was turned down because i wasn't a healer (didn't have the set or appropriate class for it)

 

How is it that you can’t know what your character is capable of without it? Make multiple sets of exotic, or better, ascended gear. Ascended gear you can swap between characters of the same armor class, allowing you to try out stats on different characters with a single armor set. Plus, the cost / effort of changing stats on armor and weapons in the mystic forge is trivial compared to the cost and effort of legendary gear. There are so many ways to get ascended gear in this game! Perhaps a combination of crafting and tokens would work well for you? I craft cheaper sets like Berserker and use the grandmaster token system in fractals (I think similar exists for PvP?) for more expensive sets like Minstrel. I have ascended gear on most of my alts and several have more than one set. I have only been playing for a little more than two years and average out as a casual player — I tend to put in a lot of time for several months and then take a break when other things come up. I haven’t raided much and am not even a Fractal Savant yet (some people were grateful to be able to stack their boxes of legendary gear — I’m far from that league). I hope you might consider some of these options and I agree it is fun to try out different builds! :) No reason to put this behind a legendary goal! I’ve only just started on Nevermore and will be taking my time with it — no grinding or going broke. I think this game is great in giving you many optional long term objectives to work for but none of which hold back your ability to participate in any game mode to at your full ability.

[TwiceDead.1963]

It's not very grindy.

 

The time-gating is there to make you log-in and keep coming back to the game every day because they don't trust you to do this on your own so you need to be "incentivized". It's complete bullshit ofcourse, but it's there.

[reddie.5861]

if only this game was grindy.. most casual game i ever seen in my life..

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> Ya'll missed where i asked the point of it being long term progression if i can't know what my character is capable of without it.

I didn't miss it; it's not germane to the problem description. You can know what your character is capable without legendary gear. After all, nearly everyone else manages to.

 

> Managing that many gear sets isn't tractable.

Why would you want to manage that many sets? Most builds are power-oriented or condi-oriented. There's already plenty of research out that narrows down the potential prefix combinations, so at most, we're talking about 2-3. For someone willing to spend untold 1000s of gold on legendary gear, invest in a permanent bank and permanent extractor contract.

 

> I tried raiding once but was turned down because i wasn't a healer (didn't have the set or appropriate class for it)

Having a full set of legendary gear isn't going to address either of those points. First, there are all sorts of roles possible for raiding. Starting as a healer is one of the harder ways to learn. Second, the solution to "not having the gear for it" is, you know, getting the gear; getting stat-swappable gear is a luxury.

 

****

I suspect that the OP might be approaching this game like other titles, in which having top gear is the most important consideration to being eligible for pugging. In this game, it's more important to understand the mechanics of the fight. In the extreme, the best players in the game can handle nearly all instanced content (raids included) with masterwork gear. Ascended gear just makes it easier (and helps those who aren't "the best...in the game" to make up for being merely good at games).

 

tl;dr having legendary gear in GW2 doesn't help one play better

Consider setting a more modest goal of becoming expert in 1-2 builds for 1-2 characters.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

(Raises hand) i know the answer. Is it because its a role playing game at its core. Can the next question be "why are there so many people in my mmo?"

[Derdzvero.7051]

Because Anet focused too much on expanding the game with LWSeasons, instead of improving and extending the content.. my 2 cents

[Cuks.8241]

Ok. Let's assume you do the research and you know what to do. This is totally not recommended for new players and for me also not fun but lets just look at it for fun of it.

 

You buy the game and you get 2 character lvl 80 boosts. You do the tutorial mission, boost your character to 80. I don't know how much exotic pieces go for these days but I will say you can get a full set of berserk with all the sigils and runes for about 40g. This amount of gold you can actually get in 1 day of farming but since this is a new account with nothing revealed let's say you need like 3 days, a few hours of play time each day. You can just farm low lvl mats like iron ore or go for farming maps like SW.

So in 3 days you can have full exotic set with good stats for many builds. With this you can tackle 95 % of end game PVE and WvW shouldn't be an issue because skill factor heavily outweighs the difference between exotic and ascended.

Now I never calculated how much time and gold investment ascended gear is but it is very reasonable and you can craft it without stepping into any harder content. This is best gear you can get and will last you forever. It is also account bound.

 

If this is grindy I don't know what other mmos are.

 

Legendaries are purely cosmetics. Yes you can say they improve quality of life because of stat changing. But in the end commitment is so high you can hardly call the end result improvement of QOL. This is just something for people that play for years to strive to.

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> Ya'll missed where i asked the point of it being long term progression if i can't know what my character is capable of without it. Managing that many gear sets isn't tractable. I tried raiding once but was turned down because i wasn't a healer (didn't have the set or appropriate class for it)

 

That's what Exotic and Ascended are for...people carry around multiple sets of armor/weapons on certain characters and change traits/armor/weapons, etc., as necessary in order to either learn other aspects of their character or try out different play styles...it's really that simple until you know what you want to do. You also do NOT need Legendary armor or weapons, you can get by just as easily with Ascended.

[Taygus.4571]

> @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> Ya'll missed where i asked the point of it being long term progression if i can't know what my character is capable of without it. Managing that many gear sets isn't tractable. I tried raiding once but was turned down because i wasn't a healer (didn't have the set or appropriate class for it)

 

You know... you can experiment with exotics, right?

 

And there are websites that give build sets for different roles, to help you pick.

[Rattengeist.8165]

Considering that Leggy armor is basically the "ultimate endgame armor", the timegate is completely justified. Once you have your full leggy armor you will be forever able to mix and match a character of that weight class as you please, you will also never ever have to craft anything for them, ever. You will also never have to use upgrade extractors.

 

BUT you can achive almost the same effect by simply crafting multiple asc armors. I currently have 3 different asc heavy armor sets and some weapon sets (power, support, condi) which means I can switch between these options whenever I feel like it. Switching between these gear sets doesn't take long, maybe a minute or two. All you need to do is either invest in an additional bank slot or additional inv slots to store them in. If you are in a guild with a guild hall, you can also access your bank within seconds without having to move from where you currently are. This means I usually carry one set on my toon, one set in an invisible bag slot in my inv and the third is either in my bank or on another toon that currently uses it. Crafting asc gear is a far less timegated goal and can be easily done while casually playing.

 

Since we now drop unidentified armor, inventory management is very relaxing and I never ran out of space for my extra gear. So far I have never felt the need for leggy armor. The only downside is that you cannot switch runes, sigils or infusions that easily but if most builds seem to use the same runes and sigils anyway.

 

If you, however, want the luxury to access all possible stat combinations from the entire game to be able to play 30+ different builds, then you will have to dedicate your time as best as you can to get the leggy armor.

[SilentRage.3572]

> @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> Ya'll missed where i asked the point of it being long term progression if i can't know what my character is capable of without it. Managing that many gear sets isn't tractable. I tried raiding once but was turned down because i wasn't a healer (didn't have the set or appropriate class for it)

 

Hum someone correct me if I'm wrong...but I don't think legendary gears have better stats than exotics.

You can still experience with different builds of exotics to find what suits you the best as exotics are really not that hard to obtain.

[Taygus.4571]

> @"SilentRage.3572" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > Ya'll missed where i asked the point of it being long term progression if i can't know what my character is capable of without it. Managing that many gear sets isn't tractable. I tried raiding once but was turned down because i wasn't a healer (didn't have the set or appropriate class for it)

>

> Hum someone correct me if I'm wrong...but I don't think legendary gears have better stats than exotics.

> You can still experience with different builds of exotics to find what suits you the best as exotics are really not that hard to obtain.

 

they do.

 

ledgie = ascended stats,

And are like 5% better than exotics

[SilentRage.3572]

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > @"SilentRage.3572" said:

> > > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > Ya'll missed where i asked the point of it being long term progression if i can't know what my character is capable of without it. Managing that many gear sets isn't tractable. I tried raiding once but was turned down because i wasn't a healer (didn't have the set or appropriate class for it)

> >

> > Hum someone correct me if I'm wrong...but I don't think legendary gears have better stats than exotics.

> > You can still experience with different builds of exotics to find what suits you the best as exotics are really not that hard to obtain.

>

> they do.

>

> ledgie = ascended stats,

> And are like 5% better than exotics

 

Okay my bad, I haven't looked much into post exotics yet ^^

[Seera.5916]

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > Ya'll missed where i asked the point of it being long term progression if i can't know what my character is capable of without it. Managing that many gear sets isn't tractable. I tried raiding once but was turned down because i wasn't a healer (didn't have the set or appropriate class for it)

>

> You know... you can experiment with exotics, right?

>

> And there are websites that give build sets for different roles, to help you pick.

 

You can even experiment with rares if you aren't wanting to spend a fortune on a maybe and you don't join groups asking for meta if you go for non-open world content. Of course WvW may not be the smartest place to experiment.

[Taygus.4571]

> @"Seera.5916" said:

> > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > @"Firebeard.1746" said:

> > > Ya'll missed where i asked the point of it being long term progression if i can't know what my character is capable of without it. Managing that many gear sets isn't tractable. I tried raiding once but was turned down because i wasn't a healer (didn't have the set or appropriate class for it)

> >

> > You know... you can experiment with exotics, right?

> >

> > And there are websites that give build sets for different roles, to help you pick.

>

> You can even experiment with rares if you aren't wanting to spend a fortune on a maybe and you don't join groups asking for meta if you go for non-open world content. Of course WvW may not be the smartest place to experiment.

 

true.

but exotics aren't too expensive..and now can earn some stat selectable ones through a couple of metas