Obtena.7952 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > I'm wondering how it is known that feedback isn't parsed through and the Devs choose what they feel is best for the game as a whole? > > > > > > Or is it only what certain posters think is best? > > > > > > I don't know how many times the Devs have posted that they read/listen to the feedback here. > > > > > > > > > > How you can they act on our feedback if they announce what's coming a week before it's released, with no other information, no streams to show it off, nothing. > > > > > > > > Because they don't need your feedback to implement new features. > > > > > > What kind of a messed up game doesn't need player feedback? I guess it's better for them to release something half-complete, get all the negative feedback afterwards and then act on it, after the backlash. Great for publicity and the image of the game and company. See what happened with the mount license. Had we known how they'd work Arenanet wouldn't be featured by youtubers as one of the terrible anti-consumer companies. Good development process, playing damage control instead of avoiding the damage altogether. > > > > They do get player feedback. We know there's an alpha testing server. We know certain guilds have tested stuff on them before. You think it's better to parse 50,000 people all saying contradictory things. You guys act like there's not feedback at all. They're not getting everyone's feedback but they definitely do get feedback. > > Small sample size to give feedback isnt always good. It depends. This isn't purely statistics ... good feedback isn't solely about how many people you have giving it. If they limit their sample size, there is that risk SOME good ideas are not given; I don't see that as a problem because it doesn't necessarily result in something terrible if they miss some great idea. There is also the risk that they don't get it if they have to comb through massive amounts of feedback too. It's both ways. It's not absolute truth that the more people you have giving feedback, the better an implementation of something will be; that's an unmanageable process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > > > > > > I'm wondering how it is known that feedback isn't parsed through and the Devs choose what they feel is best for the game as a whole? > > > > > > Or is it only what certain posters think is best? > > > > > > I don't know how many times the Devs have posted that they read/listen to the feedback here. > > > > > > > > > > How you can they act on our feedback if they announce what's coming a week before it's released, with no other information, no streams to show it off, nothing. > > > > > > > > Because they don't need your feedback to implement new features. > > > > > > What kind of a messed up game doesn't need player feedback? I guess it's better for them to release something half-complete, get all the negative feedback afterwards and then act on it, after the backlash. Great for publicity and the image of the game and company. See what happened with the mount license. Had we known how they'd work Arenanet wouldn't be featured by youtubers as one of the terrible anti-consumer companies. Good development process, playing damage control instead of avoiding the damage altogether. > > > > They do get player feedback. We know there's an alpha testing server. We know certain guilds have tested stuff on them before. You think it's better to parse 50,000 people all saying contradictory things. You guys act like there's not feedback at all. They're not getting everyone's feedback but they definitely do get feedback. > > Small sample size to give feedback isnt always good. Large sample size to give feedback is often even less good. It certainly is harder to get through. Also you have no idea what the sample size is on that server (nor do I). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > We know there's an alpha testing server. > > There is? How does someone get access to it? I'm confused. Did you really think there were no players testing this game? AFAIK, alpha testers all sign an NDA, and they are made up of players who are probably a lot more knowledgeable than I am. I knew a guy, back in the day, who was an alpha tester for a long time, before he left the game. But since then we've seen some raiding guilds on those servers testing out raids that were quite public. I'm assuming it's by invitation only, but that's just an assumption. I do know that if stuff wasn't tested it would be a lot worse than it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenedge.9675 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 > [(Reddit)I'm Mike O'Brien, here with GW2 dev team. AMA!](https://redd.it/48zlyd "https://redd.it/48zlyd") 04-Mar-2016: > The final thing you should know is that we’re working hard to avoid having a default assumption that “this thing will ship on this date,” or even, “this thing will ship,” and instead we’re proactively deciding to ship things when they’re done and polished and we’ve played them and love them. > [Flameseeker Chronicles: The future of Guild Wars 2 under Mike O’Brien](https://massivelyop.com/2016/04/06/flameseeker-chronicles-the-future-of-guild-wars-2-under-mike-obrien/) April 2016: > I appreciate O’Brien’s stated focus on delivering rather than promising content, but I hope he doesn’t forget that there’s a large variety of people out there to please. > [ Guild Wars 2->Forums->Guild Wars 2 Discussion->How's Guild Wars doing after colin leaving?](https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-s-Guild-Wars-doing-after-colin-leaving) Jan 2017 > They tend not to hype and communicate much about forthcoming content anymore. I think they felt they overhyped stuff so now we get a small bit of info then the content launches shortly after. Mike said he wanted to be judged on what they deliver, not by what they hoped to deliver (or something along those lines). My previous paraphrase was too strong. But MO did promise actions, not words. This was the beginning of silent mode, circa Mar-2016. It is not new, it was a company decision. I think it was a healthy choice by ArenaNet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > We know there's an alpha testing server. > > > > There is? How does someone get access to it? > > I'm confused. Did you really think there were no players testing this game? Well, they _did_ have an inhouse QA team at some point in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > We know there's an alpha testing server. > > > > > > There is? How does someone get access to it? > > > > I'm confused. Did you really think there were no players testing this game? > Well, they _did_ have an inhouse QA team at some point in the past. > > > > I'm not talking about Q&A though. They've always had alpha testers as well, because some of us have always heard about them. They all sign an NDA to the best of my knowledge, but we've still heard from some of them who have broken silence on occasion, including some impressive leaks before expansions have come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverLoseGuy.3894 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Actually yeah, you're right. The only thing sample size does is increasing the likeliness of "good feedbacks" against total feedbacks. That said, I'd still prefer having a sizable amount of people in participation since you will be hearing more ideas, some of which could actually work well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 > @"Alyster.9470" said: > I appreciate the new events and stuff that has been going around, but can we FINALLY have something that states more than "there will be season 5"? > Anet started to communicate a bit and give us what they want to do with the game "fairly same things they said in the past but ok..." but even that was something for us showing that they are at least trying to improve in communicating, knowing that people are concerned with the game. Now they went completely silent again... In one corner there are people screaming "nerf this nerf that", on the other "cantha expansion, tengu more tengu" and the poor wvw guys are just "alliances? update? plz???" > Just give people something to look forward to... > > Sincerely, > A bored player. I just would like to see ANY communication that is responding to players. For example, the version of Mac OS coming out this year currently does not support their client (the '64 bit client' has a 32 bit dependency and 32 bit executables will no longer be supported, windows ppl may want to investigate that too). At the moment we do not even know if there is a mac team, much less what their plans are if their client is not fixed by the time the public version gets released. No 'real gamers do not use macs' comments please. It is an officially supported platform for this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > @"Alyster.9470" said: > > I appreciate the new events and stuff that has been going around, but can we FINALLY have something that states more than "there will be season 5"? > > Anet started to communicate a bit and give us what they want to do with the game "fairly same things they said in the past but ok..." but even that was something for us showing that they are at least trying to improve in communicating, knowing that people are concerned with the game. Now they went completely silent again... In one corner there are people screaming "nerf this nerf that", on the other "cantha expansion, tengu more tengu" and the poor wvw guys are just "alliances? update? plz???" > > Just give people something to look forward to... > > > > Sincerely, > > A bored player. > > I just would like to see ANY communication that is responding to players. > > For example, the version of Mac OS coming out this year currently does not support their client (the '64 bit client' has a 32 bit dependency and 32 bit executables will no longer be supported, windows ppl may want to investigate that too). At the moment we do not even know if there is a mac team, much less what their plans are if their client is not fixed by the time the public version gets released. > > No 'real gamers do not use macs' comments please. It is an officially supported platform for this game. Its true tho. Mac is for working and its excellent for that not as good for gaming at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > @"Alyster.9470" said: > > > I appreciate the new events and stuff that has been going around, but can we FINALLY have something that states more than "there will be season 5"? > > > Anet started to communicate a bit and give us what they want to do with the game "fairly same things they said in the past but ok..." but even that was something for us showing that they are at least trying to improve in communicating, knowing that people are concerned with the game. Now they went completely silent again... In one corner there are people screaming "nerf this nerf that", on the other "cantha expansion, tengu more tengu" and the poor wvw guys are just "alliances? update? plz???" > > > Just give people something to look forward to... > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > A bored player. > > > > I just would like to see ANY communication that is responding to players. > > > > For example, the version of Mac OS coming out this year currently does not support their client (the '64 bit client' has a 32 bit dependency and 32 bit executables will no longer be supported, windows ppl may want to investigate that too). At the moment we do not even know if there is a mac team, much less what their plans are if their client is not fixed by the time the public version gets released. > > > > No 'real gamers do not use macs' comments please. It is an officially supported platform for this game. > > Its true tho. > Mac is for working and its excellent for that not as good for gaming at all. Sigh. Did you even READ the topic? This thread is about anet being noncommunicative and I gave a concrete example of that. The platform does not matter one tiny bit. What would you be saying if the windows client were in the same situation and you did not even know if anet was working on the windows client anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Yeah but what do you want Anet to keep telling you? We have an idea what they are working on and hoping to work on. They aren't going to give you any insights of any other projects because people don't understand what 'maybe' means. Other than how many times they go to the loo or how many cups of coffee they drink what do you all want? why can't you just enjoy the game and look forward to anything they say instead of making such a big issue of it. I would rather full steam ahead than having to break off and say' we are testing this' or 'we are doing this' because that is all they are probably doing and when they are ready they will let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > @"Menadena.7482" said: > > > > @"Alyster.9470" said: > > > > I appreciate the new events and stuff that has been going around, but can we FINALLY have something that states more than "there will be season 5"? > > > > Anet started to communicate a bit and give us what they want to do with the game "fairly same things they said in the past but ok..." but even that was something for us showing that they are at least trying to improve in communicating, knowing that people are concerned with the game. Now they went completely silent again... In one corner there are people screaming "nerf this nerf that", on the other "cantha expansion, tengu more tengu" and the poor wvw guys are just "alliances? update? plz???" > > > > Just give people something to look forward to... > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > A bored player. > > > > > > I just would like to see ANY communication that is responding to players. > > > > > > For example, the version of Mac OS coming out this year currently does not support their client (the '64 bit client' has a 32 bit dependency and 32 bit executables will no longer be supported, windows ppl may want to investigate that too). At the moment we do not even know if there is a mac team, much less what their plans are if their client is not fixed by the time the public version gets released. > > > > > > No 'real gamers do not use macs' comments please. It is an officially supported platform for this game. > > > > Its true tho. > > Mac is for working and its excellent for that not as good for gaming at all. > > Sigh. > > Did you even READ the topic? > > This thread is about anet being noncommunicative and I gave a concrete example of that. The platform does not matter one tiny bit. What would you be saying if the windows client were in the same situation and you did not even know if anet was working on the windows client anymore? Then I would most likely play 1 of my many single player games that I have on my backlog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuldari.3940 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I have noticed that anet unlike other games , dont really talk about the future plans with us. That can leave people feeling antsy and wondering what is going on. Because most people see that as a sign they have no real plans to expand the game. So that niggling thought of, is this it, starts to worm its way in. I think they could be better about communicating future plans as well as current objectives , and talking to us on here about balancing and fixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"Dami.5046" said: > They aren't going to give you any insights of any other projects because people don't understand what 'maybe' means. I guess that's why they told us quite early when expansions were dropping. Or why they did that post about upcoming features 6 months ago. I can't imagine the ones managing the game don't know when things will come, until it's one week from their release. As a manager/director you are supposed to know the roadmaps, that's part of the job description. No, this is more likely a "policy" they have so as not to repeat the mistakes of the past (hype trains) but you know there can be a middle way. Notice how a lot of games that are flourishing are open with their communication, it's not a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"Zuldari.3940" said: > I have noticed that anet unlike other games , dont really talk about the future plans with us. That can leave people feeling antsy and wondering what is going on. Because most people see that as a sign they have no real plans to expand the game. So that niggling thought of, is this it, starts to worm its way in. I think they could be better about communicating future plans as well as current objectives , and talking to us on here about balancing and fixes. I can see them holding back on things like the story (even if it is frustrating) but when you are talking technical issues you really want to know someone is actually listening. Right now we do not know if it will be a complete surprise to their help desk why almost every mac user is complaining about a fatal issue to them when the next version of the OS drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 This is only an issue because some of you are making it so.No more no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"Dami.5046" said: > This is only an issue because some of you are making it so.No more no less. Not really. Take the one I brought up (that the next version of MacOS will not currently work with the client). I can not upgrade my entire OS until I know what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Dami.5046" said: > This is only an issue because some of you are making it so.No more no less. Not really. No. Imagine in the context of those examples I gave in my previous post, where say people did not raise a red flag over the Mount Adoption License. Would ANet, on its own, have actually done anything about that? They implemented it the way they did, after all, and they only altered things *after* it was brought to their attention "This isn't okay". However that still does apply to the problem I stated in the same post, they seem to only do that when it affects gem sales. Outside of that...not so much. > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"Dami.5046" said: > > They aren't going to give you any insights of any other projects because people don't understand what 'maybe' means. > > I guess that's why they told us quite early when expansions were dropping. Or why they did that post about upcoming features 6 months ago. I can't imagine the ones managing the game don't know when things will come, until it's one week from their release. As a manager/director you are supposed to know the roadmaps, that's part of the job description. No, this is more likely a "policy" they have so as not to repeat the mistakes of the past (hype trains) but you know there can be a middle way. > > Notice how a lot of games that are flourishing are open with their communication, it's not a coincidence. It really isn't a coincidence, I'm not sure why there are those in this thread or elsewhere that are set on ignoring that. Why is ANet any different than them under these circumstances? There have been clear issues, many of which unresolved, and ANet doesn't communicate properly. People stick around and play, certainly, and this has never been a "GW2 is dying/dead" thread, this has always been a thread about the desire for ANet to change their policy on communication with the community. Sure they've had a few stumbles, they've done a few AMAs and they've had issues with too much of the hype train blunting how the content is received at release, but they can't just sit back and not try to at least *try* to get the formula right. It doesn't *look* good much less get *received* very well when there are people voicing concerns, criticisms and loking to have their voice heard by ANet when there is something that affects the game and it just...doesn't get attended to. Yet we see instances of them near *immediately* attending to any problem that might affect gem store sales. Remember the skyscale time gating and how that got altered to how it is now? They saw people likely wouldn't bother getting the skyscale because of it and if people didn't get the skyscale then no one would buy the skyscale skins that released *the very next month*. They swiftly addressed it that month. Also remember when the Mount Adoption Licenses were first added? The whole controversy behind that and the RNG aspects to it that so many had a less than positive reaction to? The swiftly addressed it that month. Balance updates? Some bugs that have been around for years? Changes to sPvP or WvW? We're lucky to see any issues that appear addressed in the same year. Criticism shouldn't be punished, it shouldn't be ignored and often times the players can see something the Devs might not. As I've repeated before, they aren't infallible and it tends to fall to the community to call them on such instances where they make a mistake or the community sees something wrong or something that needs improvement. MO has said, or at least implied, that GW2 is a live service game...yet it doesn't *feel* that way these days. If you take Warframe as an example; that is for sure a *live service* game and they describe it as such, and they take full advantage of the valuable asset that is their community to help give the game better direction and improve it over time through feedback and interaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 And, ArenaNet has listened to player feedback when they gave refunds (from the Gem Store), as well. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Flamekissed-Armor-Skin Or, gave a free $10 item due to player feedback. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pre-purchase-community-address/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > And, ArenaNet has listened to player feedback when they gave refunds (from the Gem Store), as well. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Flamekissed-Armor-Skin > Or, gave a free $10 item due to player feedback. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pre-purchase-community-address/ The Flamekissed Armor Skin situation was back in *2013* And the pre-purchase situation was back in *2015*. These are both things that happened 6 years ago and 4 years ago, respectively. Which I believe it has already been established that *today*, as in the *present*, things are very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 As long as it is acknowledged that it is not _only_ issues that impact ArenaNet's income favorably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said: > As long as it is acknowledged that it is not _only_ issues that impact ArenaNet's income favorably. These days that certainly *looks* like the case. Again...your two examples are from 4 and 6 years ago. One of which is the immediate year following release and the other is related to HoT where things were still arguably pretty okay. Literally nothing to do with circumstances now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 Now as was suspected, and pointed out, with the Legendary Upgrades release after people got their eyes on the preview one week prior; there is feedback coming in on the exact things people had seen an issue with before the Legendary Upgrades even released. The cost. To get all 6 of the runes would still cost twice the amount you'd spend on just buying an Infinite Upgrade Extractor which serves near the *exact* same function. The interface changes. People are actually pointing out that it looks and feels *worse* than what we had already. However yet again ANet gave 1 weeks notice for an upcoming change/feature implementation and as such the design and development work had essentially already been completed, therefore *any* feedback that came in between then and when it released had gone pretty much ignored and unattended to. Not so much as a mention of "Alright, we see your feedback" and now ANet will have to run damage control, if they even will at this point, to either change the interface back (unlikely) or look into how they can improve it. The most that may be seen is *maybe* addressing material amounts to reduce the cost...but I also don't see that happening either. Not to mention I don't expect them to actually communicate at all with the community about said feedback on these things after the fact, they'll just let it sit there and fester like they have with many other things in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acheron.4731 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 I think a lot of this mess could be avoided if they just had a dialogue with people. Hmmm, weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 > @"Acheron.4731" said: > I think a lot of this mess could be avoided if they just had a dialogue with people. > Hmmm, weird. Which is the exact thing that is being asked for. We see the benefits of it in so many other places, yet there are people who completely neglect to acknowledge that. Some, apparently, even implying that it is an attempt to "interfere with the development process" when that is just...entirely not the case. Also to finally comment on the testing they did a while back...I'm pretty sure that happened *once* and it was before the very first raid wing was going to be introduced. However I don't recall seeing anything like that mentioned in recent years, which only serves to strengthen the standpoint that ANet has only gotten *worse* at this stuff as time has gone on. Which is something that has been repeated over and over again in this thread. The only defense I've seen that actually has some semblance of merit to it uses examples from *years* ago, when things were very clearly different and are very much not reflective of the ANet that exists today. It is the same as "Well Bioware was *the* company for story and narrative in games" Yeah...*years* ago...but now we have Anthem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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