To Those Calling for Open World PVP

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > > @"Ben K.6238" said:

> > > > > > @"joneirikb.7506" said:

> > > > > > Regarding OpenWorld PvP:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ANet stated before that the PvP settings of the game are linked to the map and the map location. Essentially if a map is located in PVE they don't have a way of enabling PvP, and if they did (by moving the map to another zone) they'd enable pvp for everyone or no-one, free for all or server teams etc, depending on where they moved it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This means:

> > > > > > * They can't "just" enable pvp in OW.

> > > > > > * They can't give players a "toggle" for on/off (unless that toggle just forced you into a different map in another mode).

> > > > > > * Can't use "part" of a map.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Unless they dedicate a whole lot of time/effort/resources into rewriting their entire "game mode" system. Which is likely more work than they're going to do before GW3.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Which is the best part about the OP's suggestion, because it rather bypasses all of those limitations, and moves the PVE experience to a separate map in WvW, where all of this is already established and organized. Including with pre-set teams to zerg the events with.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It also keeps the map out of World Completion for those that cares about that ;)

> > > > >

> > > > > I'd just like to point out that they did, accidentally, provide a way to open-world PvP when Silverwastes was released. Before the bug was fixed, when you turned the bandits friendly, you'd turn hostile to other players.

> > > > >

> > > > > What they meant by not being able to enable PvP is the PvP build system. Turning PvP on in PvE areas with the PvE build system actually is so simple they've done it by mistake.

> > > >

> > > > That was (a) not the first time and (b) not the system anyone is asking for. Flagging every friendly as a hostile is easy. What they can't easily do is flag _some players_ as hostile and other players as friendly. So the zone would be 100% PvP or, as it is now, 0%. There's no "opt in" easily available. That's trivially different from what we have now (some maps are PvP, some are WvW, and most are PvE).

> > >

> > > Except, well, they did do that in the shatterer invasion event where people was continously getting branded and fighting the players that remained as two factions.

> >

> > Not really the same as what people are asking for when they want open world PvP. As [[this video]](

) shows if you were branded you were turned into an NPC with a different set of skills.

> >

> > So it appears open world PvP might be possible if players are willing to have their profession skills removed and replaced with a set of NPC skills.

> Getting other skills was part of the event, just like getting other skills when you push a button in WvW now with the coreswap event.

 

Maybe getting other skills was part of the event because pve doesn’t have an easy way to make player factions.

As for the WvW skill swap event, that’s completely different. It’s in a PvP map with a different set of rules and it doesn’t put the player into a different faction. It only gives the players new skills. (Possibly ANet is bug testing a new elite spec?)

 

> The GW2 scripting engine for handling stuff like this has been shown to be pretty darn powerful and flexible and tbh I see no limitations for Anet to implement WvW-like rules (ie joining a map as blue, green or red) onto any instance. I am certain Anet could do it if they wanted to.

 

They possibly could do it if they want. What they said is **“The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible”.**

 

 

 

> It still doesnt make it any less pointless and futile on exisiting maps, but this topic was for new ones.

 

True, but you brought up an event on a PvE map to respond to a post about factions in PvE and I was pointing out the event you referred to had factions because one set of players was transformed.

>

> But granted I dont see it happening either way. To me this has always been a "maybe for GW3" thing.

 

I agree with this. ^^

 

 

[Ravezaar.4951]

Well most WvW wanted the PvE event in middle of desert map gone instantly (me included) so doubt that goes well, and the second u make a "toggle pvp"- button you kill WvW. Even more then it already is....

[Dami.5046]

They killed that off with how the guilds are set up. If we were like GW when you could only be in a luxon guild and alliance say it would be fine, but as people can be in 5 guilds, i'm not even going to go there with the complains if suddenly you could only join guilds of a certain fraction. I wouldn't want open world pvp to be server vs server.

But anyway, one person said they didn't want it, so that's enough (if it could happen obs)

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Dami.5046" said:

> They killed that off with how the guilds are set up. If we were like GW when you could only be in a luxon guild and alliance say it would be fine, but as people can be in 5 guilds, i'm not even going to go there with the complains if suddenly you could only join guilds of a certain fraction. I wouldn't want open world pvp to be server vs server.

> But anyway, one person said they didn't want it, so that's enough (if it could happen obs)

*Technically* and *if it ever happens* then you're actually arguing the opposite of what Anet intend to do with guilds in the future.

 

With alliances, you would swear yourself to do PvP for just one of your 5 guilds (and the alliance its in) regardless of which you rep. Since this form the basis for worlds and EoTM with its global red/blue/green factions... well, exists... everything is already *almost* in place for 3-way warfare when a player in 5 guilds join a map.

[Vavume.8065]

One of the simplest and most effective ways to create an open world PVP map that people would flock to is to fill it with groups of NPC's that drop valuable resources (Farm spots) and let us fight it out over farming those area's.

[Ben K.6238]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> They possibly could do it if they want. What they said is **“The overall design for Guild Wars 2 does not support fully open world PvP and it would take a prohibitive amount of work to even make it possible”.**

 

Yeah, to do it in any form they'd be happy with releasing I have no doubt of that. It'd take much less work to do it badly, but even if they had any interest in open-world PvP I couldn't see them going for a hacky implementation.

[Knighthonor.4061]

this what EOTM should have been

[DoLoR.7568]

I agree with a lot of folks here, PvE gets updated all the time with new fresh content, while pvp/wvw stays the same. I am a pvp player myself, and to be honest after i played pvp and wvw for a month now, the same maps and modes gets boring. It seems that there is a lot of people who do actually enjoy pvp/ GvG and its such a cool graphic game that I think Anet should put the time and effort to implement an open world pvp system that is fair for both pve players and pvp. Most mmos using systems like toggle on/off or special areas, or maybe special hours. Another idea is, since there are metas and events happening every day, what if randomly you add 45 mins of war in a random city that enables pvp almost like real war. This 45 mins people will have to join with their guilds/teams to do metas together against other people. Make a system that protects new players/ low level players. And bring all the modes together. Farming for legandary then will matter more if you wanna be stronger, it will make the game more interesting doing party vs party against a boss, or an event. Doing repeatedly events vs NPCs I don’t find that that interesting unless u mix both.

[lare.5129]

> @"Cardolan.9123" said:

> What if there's **a new WVW map** that's designed similar to a PVE map?

what we point do this? we have already good open world pvp map. It only depend from you, choose blob, small party, or solo.

 

Aslo on wvw map you havwe fresh content every day- this is players and tactic.

 

 

[Vancho.8750]

Maybe several maps like edge of the mists that would effect the WvW score after the end of the match up, and they rotate one after another for variety, maybe even copy drizzlewood as such a thing. So it is something in between structured pvp and wvw with short term goal to win the map, basically a large scale battleground like other games.

[Cristalyan.5728]

> @"Cardolan.9123" said:

> What if there's **a new WVW map** that's designed similar to a PVE map? Instead of the towers camps keeps etc, it can have PVE features such as events, meta events, NPCs, renown hearts, and even map currencies. WVW server scores in this map can be calculated based on event completion and enemy players killed. This **new WVW map** kind of makes itself a PVE map with open world PVP enabled. Plus, the reward of farming this map should be no more than that of farming an ordinary PVE map, and there won't be any personal story in this map, so it will have zero influence to the PVE playerbase.

> Thoughts? (Still it's not likely gonna happen though)

>

> Edit: highlighted clarification that what I suggest is purely a new WVW map, it has nothing to do with the PVE open world nor its rules.

 

This is the exact description of the EoTM. Replace the towers/camps/keeps in EoTM and you will have the same amount of popularity for the new map, Why? Because pf this: **Plus, the reward of farming this map should be no more than that of farming an ordinary PVE map**. If the reward of this map is not much greater than the reward for an ordinary map, then you will not have PvE'rs in that map. It will be a map for PvP'rs. And they have already an entire game mode. Also, the players inerested in PvP in a large map have the WvW.

 

My conclusion: Without a **large reward** the PvE'rs won't face the discomfort of fighting enemy players. For that we already have PvP and the PvE'rs are not very numerous there.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"DoLoR.7568" said:

> I agree with a lot of folks here, PvE gets updated all the time with new fresh content, while pvp/wvw stays the same. I am a pvp player myself, and to be honest after i played pvp and wvw for a month now, the same maps and modes gets boring. It seems that there is a lot of people who do actually enjoy pvp/ GvG and its such a cool graphic game that I think Anet should put the time and effort to implement an open world pvp system that is fair for both pve players and pvp. Most mmos using systems like toggle on/off or special areas, or maybe special hours. Another idea is, since there are metas and events happening every day, what if randomly you add 45 mins of war in a random city that enables pvp almost like real war. This 45 mins people will have to join with their guilds/teams to do metas together against other people. Make a system that protects new players/ low level players. And bring all the modes together. Farming for legandary then will matter more if you wanna be stronger, it will make the game more interesting doing party vs party against a boss, or an event. Doing repeatedly events vs NPCs I don’t find that that interesting unless u mix both.

 

There already are special areas of the game for players to fight each other, that's exactly what WvW and PvP are. (Plus guild arenas and the free-for-all zone in the PvP lobby and any others I'm forgetting.) As was already discussed earlier in this thread Anet have said they've experimented with adding optional PvP to PvE maps and it doesn't work because there is no way to implement teams or an opt-in system, the only options are either everyone can attack everyone or no one can attack anyone. They'd have to make it a separate map using the WvW or PvP format, and at that point they may as well include it in those game modes instead of pretending it's a PvE map.

 

Also I don't think a random event for 45 minutes would work very well. By the time someone's noticed it's started and gotten enough people together to form a team there would be barely any time left to fight. If they were going to do this a fixed schedule would be better so those who are interested can get there in time for it to start, like with world bosses.

 

As for trying to play PvE while that's going on I'm sure I'm not the only one who would simply leave and come back once it's over. I like playing WvW, but I have no interest in having to dodge gankers whose only interest in "PvP" is attacking those they're sure won't fight back when I'm just trying to finish the story or do an achievement or whatever. That's the problem I've seen with implementing this in other games, if you make it optional then those who aren't interested in PvP simply avoid it and you end up with a purely PvP map which isn't actually built for it and doesn't work very well as an arena (often with a very low population, which makes it even harder to find people to fight) and if it's not optional those looking to avoid it don't go there at all, or if it's game-wide they find another game. That's one of the things which appealed to a lot of GW2 players originally - PvP is there if you want it, but in PvE maps there's very little other players can do to disrupt what you're doing.

 

I'm not sure why they don't add more game modes to PvP, but I do know whenever they've tried adding maps to WvW it's been badly received. The Edge of the Mists was the first, which was tested by WvW players before release and praised for the interesting mechanics and varied terrain, then it was released and almost immediately labelled a PvE karma-farming map where no self-respecting WvW player would bother going and teams just go in circles claiming objectives while avoiding each other. Then the Desert Borderlands was added and was similarly badly received. It stayed in, as a full WvW map, but it always seems to be the least populated and the least popular. I know of a few people who point-blank refuse to ever go there, seemingly just because it's not identical to the maps they already had memorised. Since then the main suggestion I've seen for new WvW maps is for ones which are functionally identical to the ones we already have - same keeps, towers, camps etc. same cliffs and paths, but different terrain designs to give the illusion of variety without actually changing anything. Under those circumstances I can see why Anet are reluctant to waste time making new maps that will also go unused.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"tim.4596" said:

> That's not even required, they could keep maps as they currently are, and just activate an in-game toggle ON/OFF which allows you to activate PvP mode. That way, if you want to do PvP. You do so. And if you don't want to. Then you don't. And this way, everyone is happy. However, that's probably never gonna happen. So I'd say your idea of a new WvW map is way better :)

That would require a complete rebuild of the whole "team" system this game has. Currently being able to attack others or not is dependant not on personal aggro settings, but on teams. Members of the same team cannot attack each other. Otherwise, different levels of aggro (allied, allied but can't heal/buff them neutral, aggro, and i think pets/summons are another, separate type of allied team as well) can be set only between teams. The only workaround to that so far Anet has managed to do in order to let you attack other members of your own team is to make _everyone_ attackable within an area. At this moment making it so team A (OWPvP team) can attack other members of the team A, while all of its members remain allied with team B (normal PvE players), and all the other aggro/ally relations to other teams are preserved is not something that can be done withing the frame of the current ally/foe system.

 

Notice, by the way, that things like heals and buffs also have team priority - they first go to your team, and only after that to buffable/healable allies in range. So, if there was a PvP toggle making you a member of a "pvp capable" team, that would be allied with the normal, basic PvE player team, you would receive heals/buffs last. Which might be something you didn't want in some situations, but in others would allow some unintended ways of manipulating buff priorities.

 

[Luthan.5236]

Open World PvP as in the "classic" use of this word: It will never happen. Wouldn't fit in the game. And personally I find it already bad in a lot of other MMORPG. Fits in the world if the lore/world is somewhat an anarchy and the races don't have other troubles to fight. Otherwise only fighting against the other thread makes sense. (Like in WoW the 2 factions that fight each other.)

 

WvW and sPvP exists. There needs to be a mid sized PvP game mode with 10-15 vs. 10-15 for those who like to play on strategic maps but don't want the zergy WvW.

 

For "Open World": Dueling and maybe special maps (whole maps not areas in the maps) might be the best. A special map could fit into the lore if it is far away from where the usual stuff happens. No pact or other troops stationed. Okay to attack each other.

 

In the Mists (PvP lobby) there already is within the normal map (where players are allied) a arena for fighting others. So technically such stuff is possible.

[Frostfang.5109]

> @"Cardolan.9123" said:

> What if there's **a new WVW map** that's designed similar to a PVE map? Instead of the towers camps keeps etc, it can have PVE features such as events, meta events, NPCs, renown hearts, and even map currencies. WVW server scores in this map can be calculated based on event completion and enemy players killed. This **new WVW map** kind of makes itself a PVE map with open world PVP enabled. Plus, the reward of farming this map should be no more than that of farming an ordinary PVE map, and there won't be any personal story in this map, so it will have zero influence to the PVE playerbase.

> Thoughts? (Still it's not likely gonna happen though)

>

> Edit: highlighted clarification that what I suggest is purely a new WVW map, it has nothing to do with the PVE open world nor its rules.

 

This is s cool ideal!

[DoLoR.7568]

You guys say its not possible. Everything is possible to happen, as long as there is community to support it. I personally don’t really like pve but doesn’t mean I don’t support it for the pve players. It doesn’t mean i will put all my time into pve.

A lot of mmos have done it nicely and fair. There are ways to implement such a thing like WoW does , war mode on/off whoever doesn’t want it keep it off and mind your business. Today actually i was speaking with 3 of my guilds mix of pve/wvw/pvp guilds and they were all supporting the idea of merging all modes together. Gw2 is one of the best mmos (not because they don’t have open world pvp) but because of its graphics, its story, the mounts, the quests. So taking a game like that and adding something that will benefit pvp junkies too will be perfect. The map is huge. How about making some of the map of the end game an open pvp zone and remove any story mode missions from there. Whoever wants can go there. Far away from other pve people. After all its called guildwars and wvw 100vs100 is not that fun imo. You can do organized parties vs parties against bosses with healers maybe 10v10 in a pve map. There is so many things that can be done and not only expansions that have fresh content for pve players only. Hopefully anet take it to consideration and add something. Huge amount of options of things that u can do, plus it’ll worth more to craft for legandary if stats count in pvp. More money for you guys.

[kharmin.7683]

I would very much prefer the current PvP to be improved rather than implementing PvP in PvE. GW2 already has this segmented, and for good reason. It should remain so.

[EmmetOtter.8542]

A major part of the open world pvp fun is that you are progressing in both pve with the extra spice of pvp. For example, I can do the icebrood saga (or PoF or HoT or any other) story quests and activities while seeing a guy whose xmog I don't like so yeah, he pays for that (or maybe I do if he's better than me). An extra wvw map won't have that. Also Wvw has a map limits on the # of players.

 

While Anet could go "battle royale" style open world pvp, it would be more interesting to be able to form parties, etc... and work together with others to kill others.

 

The whole process would be more interesting if we had "sides". Allowed us to join the "bad guys" (Fire Legion, Nightmare Court, Inquest, etc...) instead of being one of the good guys. I just don't see that happening.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"DoLoR.7568" said:

> You guys say its not possible. Everything is possible to happen, as long as there is community to support it.

And that's the point. There is no such community to support it in gw2. There are at best a handful of players asking for it, and a lot that do not want to see anything like that near content they play in.

Basically, support for OWPvP idea is way, way lower than support for WvW and SPvP.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

PvE maps have limits on the number of players, as well. Otherwise, there would not be additional instances of a map.

 

No to Open World PvP, for all the reasons posted in all the previous threads on the topic.