New Core Necro balance notes next week

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Anet balance team doesnt play or understand where each class is sitting. You all gotta know this by now after soo many confusing balance decisions lmao it's like the anet balance team thinks reaper gets far more magical sustain from reaper shroud than it actually gives compared to the sustain and sustain skills other classes have to what..... make up for not having a shroud that's stripped in seconds lol. Games more of a joke each patch. The balance team is honestly gonna be what kills this game.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> Sounds to me like deathshroud 2 is getting the nerf bat as well. Sounds like "this skill isn't homing anymore"

> Which would make it completely useless.

>

I think it still homes in it just works more like the focus 4 now instead of running along the ground aka scaling down walls before it reaches its target it now just flys through the air to get them

 

That said if they made it track less efficiently in the process.... then yeah its a nerf. Right now its one of the best tracking skills in the game aside from life blast and mirror blade on mesmer.

 

 

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > Sounds to me like deathshroud 2 is getting the nerf bat as well. Sounds like "this skill isn't homing anymore"

> > Which would make it completely useless.

> >

> I think it still homes in it just works more like the focus 4 now instead of running along the ground aka scaling down walls before it reaches its target it now just flys through the air to get them

>

> That said if they made it track less efficiently in the process.... then yeah its a nerf. Right now its one of the best tracking skills in the game aside from life blast and mirror blade on mesmer.

>

>

 

I guess its reduced cooldown is a plus.

8 seconds without Soul Reaping.

6.8 seconds with Soul Reaping.

 

2 bleeds + chill.

Seems like an additional nice condi application skill now for shroud camping builds with Dhuumfire autos.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > Sounds to me like deathshroud 2 is getting the nerf bat as well. Sounds like "this skill isn't homing anymore"

> > > Which would make it completely useless.

> > >

> > I think it still homes in it just works more like the focus 4 now instead of running along the ground aka scaling down walls before it reaches its target it now just flys through the air to get them

> >

> > That said if they made it track less efficiently in the process.... then yeah its a nerf. Right now its one of the best tracking skills in the game aside from life blast and mirror blade on mesmer.

> >

> >

>

> I guess its reduced cooldown is a plus.

> 8 seconds without Soul Reaping.

> 6.8 seconds with Soul Reaping.

>

> 2 bleeds + chill.

> Seems like an additional nice condi application skill now for shroud camping builds with Dhuumfire autos.

 

The biggest thing is the synergy with path of corruption. The skill not only has a lower cool down but strikes more targets.

[Etterwyn.5263]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > I have literally have only seen obtena justify or stick up for every class nerf except for his main which I'm guessing from his posts in warrior forum is warrior. Gues it's ok for him to not like the direction anet takes his class lol.

>

> You simply haven't been around long enough ... The fact is that regardless of the game or the devs, I have YET to see a situation where a broken tool will be allowed to persist to maintain some sense of balance. That's only even more true in the case of a bug or a forgotten implementation, exactly what this appears to be. If you think Anet was actually to allow this or intended for it to work that way, then you really aren't very aware of how this game works.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you, but if it was unintended it should **_not_** have lasted 3 months. I'm pretty sure people (even myself) were asking on Day One "does Soul Eater work in shroud"? If that was unintended, it should have been fixed ASAP and not left to linger.

 

No one would have had a problem with it, were it fixed right away. But 3 months of silence followed up by "oh, you weren't supposed to have this toy" is uncalled for. It's not a resource issue, it's a priority issue. Fractal 61 farm got fixed within days of becoming public knowledge.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

My issue is it would have thematically fit far more if soul eater only effectively heals while in shroud not while out if it. The trait would not be op if it were designed this way but would still remain useful but instead we get the opposite.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

changes are meh

I wonder if I will be able to corrupt 4 boons with path of corruption + dark path now...

[EremiteAngel.9765]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > Sounds to me like deathshroud 2 is getting the nerf bat as well. Sounds like "this skill isn't homing anymore"

> > > > Which would make it completely useless.

> > > >

> > > I think it still homes in it just works more like the focus 4 now instead of running along the ground aka scaling down walls before it reaches its target it now just flys through the air to get them

> > >

> > > That said if they made it track less efficiently in the process.... then yeah its a nerf. Right now its one of the best tracking skills in the game aside from life blast and mirror blade on mesmer.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I guess its reduced cooldown is a plus.

> > 8 seconds without Soul Reaping.

> > 6.8 seconds with Soul Reaping.

> >

> > 2 bleeds + chill.

> > Seems like an additional nice condi application skill now for shroud camping builds with Dhuumfire autos.

>

> The biggest thing is the synergy with path of corruption. The skill not only has a lower cool down but strikes more targets.

 

ah yes. thats a nice point.

unblockable aoe boon corrupt on core shroud 2 + traited scepter 3 for more aoe boon corrupt.

sweet =D

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

> @"Hesacon.8735" said:

> The cooldowns are nice, but since reaper got buffed death shroud can't keep up in damage and scourge can use shroud skills AND weapon skills at the same time. When reaper launched the reaper shroud damage was unimpressive and similar to death shroud, but it's way ahead of death shroud at the moment with no drawback except it has to be melee (which is seldom an issue).

 

Are you trying to make them **nerf** reaper dps to core necro level? We need core buffed not reaper curbstomped!

[Shroud.2307]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Demolisher is not available in wvw.

 

I made two builds, one for Power Curses Reaper and another for Power Spite Reaper a while back. I use both of these builds regularly and they are about as close to Demolisher stats as I could manage. Everything is a little better, with it being WvW and having a greater selection of stats and buffs and all, but the concept is the same. If you'd like to try them out, adjust them more to your liking or just use them as a template, please go ahead.

 

**Power Spite**

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNAR3dnc0A12gt2AG3A0biFcBL+KuFLjUdh4wzC6qFAOAA-jlDEQBbUJ4DOIARRZR2OCASRpQjURwhKxmkqI+TlCAcBASkaAQ4BAkj9HajuhAAIA38mZz2M4m38m38m3srbzsZ28m3MpAGVyG-w

 

**Power Curses**

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vREQNAR3dnc0A12gt2AG3A0biljBLOH2DPiU/gpQsKqnttCAA-jlDEQBtR3wFVi9gDCQUUWkI1AAwFAYRqUIFlC5Y/BI8AAakKCZ7IAsRlgTSVkAAIA38mZz2M4m38m38m3srbzsZ28m3MpAUdyG

 

 

I hope that helps in some way.

 

**EDIT**

... Okay, so I don't know why those links won't work if you click on them, but they do if you copy and paste.

[Morde.3158]

As a person with 12k hours on core necro I will say that base necro is tankier then reaper in terms of being able to buy time in shroud reaper gets knocked out of shroud easier then core. Reaper shroud should not be 10s it should have a little bit of recharge built in the recharge on shroud skills when auto attacking is pretty useless in pvp and its not something to depend on neither. You cant really play reaper glassy anymore and condi reaper sucks. Reaper wont be killed after the change but I don't like not being able to use certain traits which has always been the case for necro since launch.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

> > @"Hesacon.8735" said:

> > The cooldowns are nice, but since reaper got buffed death shroud can't keep up in damage and scourge can use shroud skills AND weapon skills at the same time. When reaper launched the reaper shroud damage was unimpressive and similar to death shroud, but it's way ahead of death shroud at the moment with no drawback except it has to be melee (which is seldom an issue).

>

> Are you trying to make them **nerf** reaper dps to core necro level? We need core buffed not reaper curbstomped!

 

Truth be told, people often forget that reaper shroud have a higher LF upkeep than death shroud and this is why reaper shroud's "DPS" is higher. So the "no drawback" is just a "lie".

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > Sounds to me like deathshroud 2 is getting the nerf bat as well. Sounds like "this skill isn't homing anymore"

> > > > Which would make it completely useless.

> > > >

> > > I think it still homes in it just works more like the focus 4 now instead of running along the ground aka scaling down walls before it reaches its target it now just flys through the air to get them

> > >

> > > That said if they made it track less efficiently in the process.... then yeah its a nerf. Right now its one of the best tracking skills in the game aside from life blast and mirror blade on mesmer.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I guess its reduced cooldown is a plus.

> > 8 seconds without Soul Reaping.

> > 6.8 seconds with Soul Reaping.

> >

> > 2 bleeds + chill.

> > Seems like an additional nice condi application skill now for shroud camping builds with Dhuumfire autos.

>

> The biggest thing is the synergy with path of corruption. The skill not only has a lower cool down but strikes more targets.

 

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > Sounds to me like deathshroud 2 is getting the nerf bat as well. Sounds like "this skill isn't homing anymore"

> > > > Which would make it completely useless.

> > > >

> > > I think it still homes in it just works more like the focus 4 now instead of running along the ground aka scaling down walls before it reaches its target it now just flys through the air to get them

> > >

> > > That said if they made it track less efficiently in the process.... then yeah its a nerf. Right now its one of the best tracking skills in the game aside from life blast and mirror blade on mesmer.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I guess its reduced cooldown is a plus.

> > 8 seconds without Soul Reaping.

> > 6.8 seconds with Soul Reaping.

> >

> > 2 bleeds + chill.

> > Seems like an additional nice condi application skill now for shroud camping builds with Dhuumfire autos.

>

> The biggest thing is the synergy with path of corruption. The skill not only has a lower cool down but strikes more targets.

 

Yeah i didnt mean like a nerf damage wise from a numbers point of view its arguably better

- you can use it more often

- you wont always be forced blinked into danger when you use it

- it hit more targets

 

The nerf i was speaking of was more theoretical if they modify the way the skill tracks and it now tracks poorly and rarely ever hits your target aka if it turns into something like scorpion wire or spectra grasp its going to be much worse than what it is now to actively and predictably use it.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> changes are meh

> I wonder if I will be able to corrupt 4 boons with path of corruption + dark path now...

 

probably not

The port in the patch notes is described as a blink with no addtional effects it deals no strike or anything it just moves you to marked person and ups the cd on using the 2 skill. Which is not good imo. IT should technically do something more if you use it to port that would be a nice nice boost to core shrouds kit if it did.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

I'm curious if there's a range limit on the shadowstep portion of Dark Path.

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> I'm curious if there's a range limit on the shadowstep portion of Dark Path.

 

Will going in a straight line avoid pathing issues caused by terrain? That's what I want to know.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Etterwyn.5263" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > I have literally have only seen obtena justify or stick up for every class nerf except for his main which I'm guessing from his posts in warrior forum is warrior. Gues it's ok for him to not like the direction anet takes his class lol.

> >

> > You simply haven't been around long enough ... The fact is that regardless of the game or the devs, I have YET to see a situation where a broken tool will be allowed to persist to maintain some sense of balance. That's only even more true in the case of a bug or a forgotten implementation, exactly what this appears to be. If you think Anet was actually to allow this or intended for it to work that way, then you really aren't very aware of how this game works.

>

> I'm not disagreeing with you, but if it was unintended it should **_not_** have lasted 3 months. I'm pretty sure people (even myself) were asking on Day One "does Soul Eater work in shroud"? If that was unintended, it should have been fixed ASAP and not left to linger.

>

> No one would have had a problem with it, were it fixed right away. But 3 months of silence followed up by "oh, you weren't supposed to have this toy" is uncalled for. It's not a resource issue, it's a priority issue. Fractal 61 farm got fixed within days of becoming public knowledge.

 

To be FAIR ... it could have been the case that it made it out, was unintended, but Anet just let people roll with it to see if it COULD stay in the game. To me, it looks like someone forgot to flip a 'no healing in shroud' parameter on the trait somewhere. I won't pretend to know what their process is, other than what can be observed outside of it. I don't know what would prevent Anet from flipping that parameter on after a few days of release, other than testing to see if it could stay in.

[Lahmia.2193]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Etterwyn.5263" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > I have literally have only seen obtena justify or stick up for every class nerf except for his main which I'm guessing from his posts in warrior forum is warrior. Gues it's ok for him to not like the direction anet takes his class lol.

> > >

> > > You simply haven't been around long enough ... The fact is that regardless of the game or the devs, I have YET to see a situation where a broken tool will be allowed to persist to maintain some sense of balance. That's only even more true in the case of a bug or a forgotten implementation, exactly what this appears to be. If you think Anet was actually to allow this or intended for it to work that way, then you really aren't very aware of how this game works.

> >

> > I'm not disagreeing with you, but if it was unintended it should **_not_** have lasted 3 months. I'm pretty sure people (even myself) were asking on Day One "does Soul Eater work in shroud"? If that was unintended, it should have been fixed ASAP and not left to linger.

> >

> > No one would have had a problem with it, were it fixed right away. But 3 months of silence followed up by "oh, you weren't supposed to have this toy" is uncalled for. It's not a resource issue, it's a priority issue. Fractal 61 farm got fixed within days of becoming public knowledge.

>

> To be FAIR ... it could have been the case that it made it out, was unintended, but Anet just let people roll with it to see if it COULD stay in the game. To me, it looks like someone forgot to flip a 'no healing in shroud' parameter on the trait somewhere. I won't pretend to know what their process is, other than what can be observed outside of it. I don't know what would prevent Anet from flipping that parameter on after a few days of release, other than testing to see if it could stay in.

 

Knowing Anet, you're 100% correct there. So often they overlook something that is obvious to players, when it comes to skill balance.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> My issue is it would have thematically fit far more if soul eater only effectively heals while in shroud not while out if it. The trait would not be op if it were designed this way but would still remain useful but instead we get the opposite.

 

My thoughts exactly. The beauty of the trait was the ability to heal oneself whilst inside shroud. I couldn't care less about the healing when outside of it.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > Sounds to me like deathshroud 2 is getting the nerf bat as well. Sounds like "this skill isn't homing anymore"

> > Which would make it completely useless.

> >

> I think it still homes in it just works more like the focus 4 now instead of running along the ground aka scaling down walls before it reaches its target it now just flys through the air to get them

>

> That said if they made it track less efficiently in the process.... then yeah its a nerf. Right now its one of the best tracking skills in the game aside from life blast and mirror blade on mesmer.

>

>

 

Yeah, I think I misread this on first sight. But I could almost bet, that something like "slower missle speed" is going to come as well.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:> To be FAIR ... it could have been the case that it made it out, was unintended, but Anet just let people roll with it to see if it COULD stay in the game. To me, it looks like someone forgot to flip a 'no healing in shroud' parameter on the trait somewhere. I won't pretend to know what their process is, other than what can be observed outside of it. I don't know what would prevent Anet from flipping that parameter on after a few days of release, other than testing to see if it could stay in.

 

Norn manure! So here is a history lesson for those who aren't Reapers;

"August 08, 2017 Path of Fire pre-patch: This trait has had its functionality changed. It now reduces the recharge of greatsword skills by 20%. Additionally, it grants healing and life force every second while in combat and wielding a greatsword. " So your thought process here was for you to buff our greatsword skills because it is our main attack in reaper mode and you had previously nerfed our chill uptime and this was compensation, fair and frankly it allowed us to stay out of shroud and still do some decent damage.

But then''''''''''''

"April 23, 2019 "It now increases the strike damage dealt to all foes within a range of 300 by 10%, and it causes the reaper to heal for 5% of the damage dealt to foes within that range. It no longer reduces greatsword-skill recharge by 20%." So this in effect forced us to stay in shroud for as long as we could to do damage and allow our GS skills to recharge and gave us some healing so we would not be overly handicapped.

 

So now this is what we are force fed; Soul Eater: This trait no longer heals while shroud life force replaces health.

 

This wasn't some misfire, although they've produced more gaffs than I've ever seen in MMO's and I've been playing them non stop since 1999. This was an intentional addition because they knew that removing the GS buffs forced us into shroud for offense and without the ability to heal in shroud we would be sitting ducks when we dropped out to heal! I want to know why now, this is an issue because frankly it sounds like total bs and it was the fastest least complicated way to try and remove some survive ability from a class that was MARKETED as a survival so please spare me the absolute Norn manure!

[Nimon.7840]

Just curious. I'll now quote something from explanations of the Devs:

"While reapers were designed to be durable frontline fighters..."

 

Now let me quote from wiki:

"Durability is the ability of a physical product to remain functional, without requiring excessive maintenance ..."

 

Where is this durability you are speaking of devs? @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048"

 

-Passive protection removed from soulreaping,

-extra Lifeforce degeneration

 

Especially those two things lead to reaper being less and less durable.

 

Next thing: why doesn't heal warhorn 5 while we are in shroud? It's lifeleech?!

So it also doesn't add to durability.

 

Sure we could make a tanky wanky reaper for pve. With bloodmagic and deathmagic, but first, bloodmagic doesn't offer anywhere near enough sustain to do this, as well as deathmagic not being able to work in itself. You get +180toughness (armored shroud) + up to 300 toughness from corrupters fervor. But why does deadly strength not give power from those two traits, that's a maximum of 67 power in shroud with full corrupters fervor stacks. -thats not really much.

 

And then bloodmagic Beeing buggy as KitKat: blood bond healing for the amount of the actual healing signet (5k heal), but you cannot take that on a power build and you can't rely on it on Condi build as it's really easy to put on the bleeding stacks threshold, making you waste the potential heal in 99% of the cases in the first 4 seconds of a fight.

 

Signets, deathmagic and several other traits and abilities are all lackluster (well of darkness, chilling darkness, just to name some)

 

 

But I guess it all has to do with the complete sentence of wiki right?

 

"Durability is the ability of a physical product to remain functional, without requiring excessive maintenance or repair, when faced with the challenges of normal operation over its design lifetime."

 

And the lifetime for a necro/ reaper is meant to be like 20-30 seconds by the Devs. And after that, you're supposed to be dead anyways. And for those 20-30 seconds You're supposed to play minion manger, cause that's the only build, that didn't get touched in years.

That's the only explanation or the only conclusion you can come to, if you look at the last balance patches.

 

Please do me a favour. Go watch some elder Scrolls online necromancer plays. There you can see, how to make minions useful.

And necromancer being durable.

 

If these balance changes are the only changes made to necro... and other games are appealing as well. I might leave the game, even if it sadly means to abandon my raidgroup.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:> To be FAIR ... it could have been the case that it made it out, was unintended, but Anet just let people roll with it to see if it COULD stay in the game. To me, it looks like someone forgot to flip a 'no healing in shroud' parameter on the trait somewhere. I won't pretend to know what their process is, other than what can be observed outside of it. I don't know what would prevent Anet from flipping that parameter on after a few days of release, other than testing to see if it could stay in.

>

> Norn manure! So here is a history lesson for those who aren't Reapers;

> "August 08, 2017 Path of Fire pre-patch: This trait has had its functionality changed. It now reduces the recharge of greatsword skills by 20%. Additionally, it grants healing and life force every second while in combat and wielding a greatsword. " So your thought process here was for you to buff our greatsword skills because it is our main attack in reaper mode and you had previously nerfed our chill uptime and this was compensation, fair and frankly it allowed us to stay out of shroud and still do some decent damage.

> But then''''''''''''

> "April 23, 2019 "It now increases the strike damage dealt to all foes within a range of 300 by 10%, and it causes the reaper to heal for 5% of the damage dealt to foes within that range. It no longer reduces greatsword-skill recharge by 20%." So this in effect forced us to stay in shroud for as long as we could to do damage and allow our GS skills to recharge and gave us some healing so we would not be overly handicapped.

>

> So now this is what we are force fed; Soul Eater: This trait no longer heals while shroud life force replaces health.

>

> This wasn't some misfire, although they've produced more gaffs than I've ever seen in MMO's and I've been playing them non stop since 1999. This was an intentional addition because they knew that removing the GS buffs forced us into shroud for offense and without the ability to heal in shroud we would be sitting ducks when we dropped out to heal! I want to know why now, this is an issue because frankly it sounds like total bs and it was the fastest least complicated way to try and remove some survive ability from a class that was MARKETED as a survival so please spare me the absolute Norn manure!

 

Hey, You don't like my speculation. usually the simplest answer is the correct one. It simply seems to me that Anet forgot to turn it off. I know you like to have your conspiracy theory engine on overdrive ... fill your boots. It's not really valuable discussion as to how we got here, other than to understand that the healing we were getting in Shroud with Soul Eater was absolutely ridiculous.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:> Hey, You don't like my speculation. usually the simplest answer is the correct one. It simply seems to me that Anet forgot to turn it off. I know you like to have your conspiracy theory engine on overdrive ... fill your boots. It's not really valuable discussion as to how we got here, other than to understand that the healing we were getting in Shroud with Soul Eater was absolutely ridiculous.

 

Turn it off like it's a switch they left on? Now who sounds a little conspiratorial? We are talking about putting the notes into the game and explaining the rational for the change, testing it and that sounds accidental? Would you like me to link the patch notes from that particular day because they are easy to find so here you go; https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74356/game-update-notes-april-23-2019#latest

This was clearly added out of purpose, so your opinion is no more valid then mine. The healing is necessary because the changes they made forced us into shroud, and they knew that which is why it was added. To fix it they could revert that, or lower the healing value, flat out removing it will cripple the Reaper in many game play situations period and i'm not the only one who thinks so!

 

 

[Anchoku.8142]

Dark Path's Dark Pursuit - will it count as a finisher? I doubt it but want it.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Vlad Morbius.1759" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:> Hey, You don't like my speculation. usually the simplest answer is the correct one. It simply seems to me that Anet forgot to turn it off. I know you like to have your conspiracy theory engine on overdrive ... fill your boots. It's not really valuable discussion as to how we got here, other than to understand that the healing we were getting in Shroud with Soul Eater was absolutely ridiculous.

>

> Turn it off like it's a switch they left on? Now who sounds a little conspiratorial? We are talking about putting the notes into the game and explaining the rational for the change, testing it and that sounds accidental? Would you like me to link the patch notes from that particular day because they are easy to find so here you go; https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/74356/game-update-notes-april-23-2019#latest

> This was clearly added out of purpose, so your opinion is no more valid then mine. The healing is necessary because the changes they made forced us into shroud, and they knew that which is why it was added. To fix it they could revert that, or lower the healing value, flat out removing it will cripple the Reaper in many game play situations period and i'm not the only one who thinks so!

>

>

 

Why is that so unbelievable to you? Obviously there is SOMETHING programmed in the game that can stop healing in Shroud; I don't know if it's a switch or what it is ... it doesn't matter. What I know is this ... they can turn off healing in shroud. Yeah, I'm just FULL of crazy ideas about what software can do ><

 

I love how you stick to your ideas of why we need things that have zero relevance to how Anet balances the game.... how is that working out for you again? Doesn't look good from here since ... forever.