The feel of being rewarded.

[Omernon.9762]

I like the way it is now. Economy is pretty stable (way more than WoW) and drop rates (in the open world) for unique items are in the spirit of Guild Wars 1.

 

Solutions you people propose will only cause inflation of gold and therefore they won’t make you any richer, even though wallet will seem larger :)

 

Loot boxes could however have increased drop chances for rare cosmetics that are account bound on acquisition.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

I agree that we should get more coin from mobs, and every time I see my gold find increase, I laugh a bit about it. But the clutter the OP describes is nothing new. In other MMOs you always get vendor trash from kills. What makes GW2 different is that we salvage ordinary equipment for crafting materials, so it makes sense we get a lot more gear to drop, none of which is intended to be used by a max level.

[yann.1946]

> @"synk.6907" said:

> > @"Kahrgan.7401" said:

> > [...] a guy opening 25 THOUSAND Zephyrite boxes, He spent 4 THOUSAND gold and got back 800g in rewards. Now we all realize that it shouldnt be 1:1, but in no fair system should it be around a 20% ROI.

>

> The mistake is assuming boxes in this game are "fair". Anyone with that kind of money knows it's a numbers game and chose to play it to either see if they could get lucky or help others realize it's not worth it. And, if I'm honest, I assume to show off how wealthy they are in game.

> _____________

>

> This is tangential to the main discussion, but...

> > @"DonArkanio.6419" said:

> > [...]- but without vertical progression there is no real reward (which more hardcore-ish players would want) other than cosmetics.

>

> Vertical progression isn't really progression, though. It's mostly, "Hey, your numbers are pretty good! But now we've increased everything's numbers, so go and make yours bigger to match again." I fail to see why that's a reward.

> ___________

>

>

 

It's never about being rewarded. It's about feeling rewarded. People like the idea they gained something valuable even it the value only comes from a nerf. (just don't call it that because they don't like that either)

 

> > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > It sounds to me like people are playing for all the wrong reasons...shouldn't you be playing the game because you enjoy it and get fun out of it and not for the rewards? The rewards being a bonus to the fun.

>

> This is pretty much my view. Why do we need to have loot confetti to enjoy the game? I find it easy to set my own goals and enjoy my time regardless of my luck, or lack thereof, when I open a container.

>

> That said, I certainly would call most boxes underwhelming. But isn't that to be expected? We're not going to get exotics or tons of map currency from every little box.

>

> Also, recognizing I am not an economics expert so take this with a grain of salt, I can't help but feel the typical rewards off a mob kills or whatever are in line with what the game's mostly been since launch, but the player-driven market and TP has drastically evolved and inflated. So there's, like, a big disconnect from what an individual drop feels like in value as a result, perhaps?

 

 

[Image.8630]

> @"Ototo.3214" said:

> > @"Image.8630" said:

> > What bugs me the most is the items that have no value at all. Cant sell em, cant use em, cant even give em away. On a regular base I delete stacks of Airship Oil, Auric dust and the likes.

>

> I agree those are very annoying, though I feel like the issue with them is just that they don't really have many uses, so they build up. If you could do more things with them it would probably be better.

 

yeah strange to me to add so many materials that only have 1 use. Cant sell any of it either.

[Image.8630]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Image.8630" said:

> > What bugs me the most is the items that have no value at all. Cant sell em, cant use em, cant even give em away. On a regular base I delete stacks of Airship Oil, Auric dust and the likes.

>

> You dont make fulgurite do you? Always abit more profit from that.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fulgurite

 

I have but have no use for that either so they would only create another stack :) I have 1 account (plenty for me) and 2 characters

I really use and they are fully equipped.

[Tumult.2578]

What's easy for some is impossible for others. That's not the issue here.

I think what's important to remember here is that significant efforts have been made to reduce storage requirements and improve quality of play issues, yet at the same time, this is a business that sells things like different forms of additional storage space.

Is there any point to switching the complaint from too many cheap items to too few expensive items when it equals the same thing?

[Eurantien.4632]

I think this is a interesting topic regarding drops, especially compared to GW1. In GW1 getting specific armror like Grotto armor or obsidian armor felt like big achievements. And then when green weapon drops came out, those too felt rewarding. Or even the orange(?) drops. And I think a big factor with that was in GW1 you really had to work to get your look; armor and weapons, as well as elite skills. You had to go out and kill certain things, beat certain bosses, and do some challenging things to get there sometimes. Because if you wanted a certain had weapon with certain stats it was easier to go get it. You couldn't really just go farm gold anywhere like you can in GW2 and in GW2 it's easier to just farm than to actually try and get most hard to get drops. Just Buy your skin. Your sigil. Your stats. The wardrobe system made everything too easy and therefore, unrewarding.

 

 

[Tiviana.2650]

Yep opened a bunch of the festival boxes last night and got nothing but junk, a bunch of mats i already have. The rng in this game is atrocious.

[hugo.4705]

Will add my little brick here by saying only one thing:

-The reward for world completion is overwhelming and outrageous for the time consumed.

 

Seriously, 2 "gift" of exploration, tradable for nothing, worth nothing, are used for nothing apart mystic toilet legendary.

So? I don't want legendary, I've spent several day maybe week for some completing it, for what? 2 Sheets of paper?

IMHO, those should be tradable for fabulous reward instead of staying on a stable if you don't care at all about leggy.

Not asking amazing rewards; a choice between 15 tomes of knowledge or 5 bl keys or mat bags or currency voucher or 2 pieces of cultural T3

At least something interesting, not even asking for precursors or whatever, only gratification.

 

That's all, but everyone has its own opinion on the matter but for me World completion reward < Map Completion reward < Fractal reward

Even personal story reward you way far more between exotic equipment, keys, sigils and other stuffs

[Ayrilana.1396]

You got all of the map completion rewards while going for world completion.

[fixit.7189]

i have always found loot in this game boring, i don't even get excited when opening my inventory b/c i know with 100% certainty that there will be nothing interesting in there: all it will be is trash i sell for a tiny bit of silver. yay? the odds of getting some thing 'nice' in this game is so low it's pretty much never going to happen no matter how much i play. meh.

[TheBravery.9615]

Loot sucks because there's nothing truly unique value wise. It's either cosemetic or junk/crafting material.

 

If there was a rare high ferocity weapon with unusual stat combinations I'd be more interested

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

problem since day one of the game.

they fixed some things over the years and made some bad decisions on other things.

what i have learned over the years ( playing since beta ). dont expect anything and dont play for rewards because you will get disapointed over and over again.

play the things for fun and work on things where you can see the goal. for example a legendary, title or a skin you like.

i crafted 5 legendarys over the years. finished Eternity yesterday and with Aurora it was the most fun i had in this game.

 

since beta, i had some break from the game, i got only 1 precursor ( Pistol from fractal about 50g worth lol ).

 

imo its not the quality and quantity of items in this game that are missing. its the problem how you get them.

Farm the place with the best gold/hour and then buy stuff. a lot of things you can not farm, its nearly impossible.

there is no value in the things you get. you always only look on the gold you can make from the garbage in your bags, sell them and then buy the stuff you want.

thats not how a rewarding system in a game should work.

[yann.1946]

The problem is never about being rewarded. (no amount of added rewards is going to change that).

 

The problem is about feeling rewarded. But i don't think their is a way to fix that. Their are rewards for multiple rarity levels, but people don't seem to care.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> Not having unique skins, gizmos and other things drop in game from specific bosses, even in story instances, is what this game is missing in terms of replay value.

 

This is so true.

 

I spent..*days* farming for a staff in GW1, because i liked its look, its stats? Awful, Until i spent even more time farming it in HM.

 

Thats what kept me playing GW1 that final year i played(the year GW2 launched). 7 years later in GW2 i dont have anywhere near as much playtime as i did in GW1. Theres just..nothing to do that i want to do. I was going to farm dragonfall, for the Aurene chests cause i like the effect, but im nearing the 1000 mistborn coffers before the guaranteed drop is allowed and its honestly boring now.

 

The carrots this game offers are incredibly..lame? in how low they drop, ecspecially the account bound ones that cant be sold(tequatl hoard, the wyrm one, and Aurenes gift or whatever its called). I get keeping some things rare, but account bound drops shouldnt be idiotically rare to the point id rather stop doing the activity than keep going.

[Etria.3642]

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> Will add my little brick here by saying only one thing:

> -The reward for world completion is overwhelming and outrageous for the time consumed.

>

> Seriously, 2 "gift" of exploration, tradable for nothing, worth nothing, are used for nothing apart mystic toilet legendary.

> So? I don't want legendary, I've spent several day maybe week for some completing it, for what? 2 Sheets of paper?

> IMHO, those should be tradable for fabulous reward instead of staying on a stable if you don't care at all about leggy.

> Not asking amazing rewards; a choice between 15 tomes of knowledge or 5 bl keys or mat bags or currency voucher or 2 pieces of cultural T3

> At least something interesting, not even asking for precursors or whatever, only gratification.

>

> That's all, but everyone has its own opinion on the matter but for me World completion reward < Map Completion reward < Fractal reward

> Even personal story reward you way far more between exotic equipment, keys, sigils and other stuffs

 

Your post is why things aren't directly added to people's wallets. You didn't just get two sheets of paper, at least not for the first one. You also got a mastery point and title.

 

If you do it again on another toon, one would expect the reasons to be in the maps themselves: satisfaction in completion, chance at keys, need for transmutation charges.

[Hashberry.4510]

I can't stand the approach that requires farming a boss over and over for a drop. To each their own, I guess.

[Tiviana.2650]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > Not having unique skins, gizmos and other things drop in game from specific bosses, even in story instances, is what this game is missing in terms of replay value.

>

> This is so true.

>

> I spent..*days* farming for a staff in GW1, because i liked its look, its stats? Awful, Until i spent even more time farming it in HM.

>

> Thats what kept me playing GW1 that final year i played(the year GW2 launched). 7 years later in GW2 i dont have anywhere near as much playtime as i did in GW1. Theres just..nothing to do that i want to do. I was going to farm dragonfall, for the Aurene chests cause i like the effect, but im nearing the 1000 mistborn coffers before the guaranteed drop is allowed and its honestly boring now.

>

> The carrots this game offers are incredibly..lame? in how low they drop, ecspecially the account bound ones that cant be sold(tequatl hoard, the wyrm one, and Aurenes gift or whatever its called). I get keeping some things rare, but account bound drops shouldnt be idiotically rare to the point id rather stop doing the activity than keep going.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head here. It seems the focus is on shop items if you want something cool. I said before the drop rates in this game are really bad, but its more than that. Its also the carrots are not that good either. When you have rates of so called rare drops that people dont get even opening 20 to 50 thousand boxes/chests/coffers, thats really bad. When all people get rewarded with is cheap junk or more mats after days and days of playing it gets old. I get they want to sell skins etc, but the shop system cant be at the expense of ingame rewards for playing. Whats the point of playing then? its human nature to want see reward for time and effort. The wvw reward tracks and raids are honestly a great way of rewarding people. Yes its a grind, but it has a purpose and good rewards at the end. But in open world that type of reward is really lacking or i should say so rare to drop from boxes or w/e that it may as well not exist.

 

 

> @"Hashberry.4510" said:

> I can't stand the approach that requires farming a boss over and over for a drop. To each their own, I guess.

 

So you would rather what? Grind open world? Do metas over and over again looking for a drop? Buy it off the shop? No matter what you do ingame, you are repeating things. At least with bosses as in raids you get the currency for the items even if you dont get the drop. Too bad there isnt an open world reward track like they have in wvw, for people that dont like player vs player.

[Hashberry.4510]

> @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > > Not having unique skins, gizmos and other things drop in game from specific bosses, even in story instances, is what this game is missing in terms of replay value.

> >

> > This is so true.

> >

> > I spent..*days* farming for a staff in GW1, because i liked its look, its stats? Awful, Until i spent even more time farming it in HM.

> >

> > Thats what kept me playing GW1 that final year i played(the year GW2 launched). 7 years later in GW2 i dont have anywhere near as much playtime as i did in GW1. Theres just..nothing to do that i want to do. I was going to farm dragonfall, for the Aurene chests cause i like the effect, but im nearing the 1000 mistborn coffers before the guaranteed drop is allowed and its honestly boring now.

> >

> > The carrots this game offers are incredibly..lame? in how low they drop, ecspecially the account bound ones that cant be sold(tequatl hoard, the wyrm one, and Aurenes gift or whatever its called). I get keeping some things rare, but account bound drops shouldnt be idiotically rare to the point id rather stop doing the activity than keep going.

>

> I think you hit the nail on the head here. It seems the focus is on shop items if you want something cool. I said before the drop rates in this game are really bad, but its more than that. Its also the carrots are not that good either. When you have rates of so called rare drops that people dont get even opening 20 to 50 thousand boxes/chests/coffers, thats really bad. When all people get rewarded with is cheap junk or more mats after days and days of playing it gets old. I get they want to sell skins etc, but the shop system cant be at the expense of ingame rewards for playing. Whats the point of playing then? its human nature to want see reward for time and effort. The wvw reward tracks and raids are honestly a great way of rewarding people. Yes its a grind, but it has a purpose and good rewards at the end. But in open world that type of reward is really lacking or i should say so rare to drop from boxes or w/e that it may as well not exist.

>

>

> > @"Hashberry.4510" said:

> > I can't stand the approach that requires farming a boss over and over for a drop. To each their own, I guess.

>

> So you would rather what? Grind open world? Do metas over and over again looking for a drop? Buy it off the shop? No matter what you do ingame, you are repeating things. At least with bosses as in raids you get the currency for the items even if you dont get the drop. Too bad there isnt an open world reward track like they have in wvw, for people that dont like player vs player.

 

Yep, this game was made for my preferred play style. Plenty of games out there with boss grind.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"yann.1946" said:

> It's never about being rewarded. It's about feeling rewarded.

 

This is an important distinction. The feeling of being rewarded is an emotional reaction not (necessarily) based on objectivity. The illusion of reward, if disguised well, is as good as, or even better than, real rewards.

 

Not saying that I like the current reward structure as I dont think that it gives even a good illusion of rewards, but yann's point is solid.

 

[Linken.6345]

> @"Smeerlap.2698" said:

> > @"MachineManXX.9746" said:

> > > @"Smeerlap.2698" said:

> > > The rewards are simply not good enough, this has been mentioned for YEARS.. this is not an *entitled* thing, give me moar for free.

> > > Been playing for 3 years and have done (like many of you and then some) many events and meta specifically, but at no point I was WOAHH this is cool, and there is so much more arena-net can add to the *loot* table in general.

> > > With meta's you sometimes get that 1g exotic or that stupid orichalcum ring recipe you have received for a million times.

> > > Just do DS, and really milk that map, get the pods, events all of it.. at the end open everything.. besides the Amalgamated Gem and some Ectoplasm Globs I sometimes think what just happened.

> > > Where did the *loot* go after opening all those purple boxes and bags, globby gloop, broken fang, spikes, broken lockpick, some wood and ore that I have a ton of already, what's going on?.

> > >

> > > Have a lot of map currencies and very little to spend it on (there are mini's - endless tonics and novelties but I don't care for that), and what karma I have I spend on Obsidians.

> > >

> > > Just an example, there is an achievement called *Exotic Hunter* where there are several Exotics worth 30-40g.. why are these not in the loot table map wide?.

> > > I could buy the last 5 exotics, but that means I have to burn 200g for the achievement, I didn't actually achieve anything besides paying for it so I am not gonna do it.

> > > There are also many Dye's worth 5g to 50g, put that in the loot map wide even if it's very RARE drop.

> > >

> > > Same goes for Exotic weapons and armor, many many of them worth 10 to 100+ gold.. just put it in the rewards (world bosses, or just random monster drop).. why not ?.

> > > It's so not rewarding doing a e.g Tequatl and get that 10 silver SPOON, again.. not saying a 50g exotic should be rewarded every time, but c'mon!

> > >

> > > The whole idea (exciting) for me personally is when I go play a map for a few hours, there IS a probability that I get something nice.. it can take a week or a month or even 3 months.. at least I would KNOW there are some really nice item's (in gold terms 50-150g worth or *xxxxxx* whatever you want to put there) on the map.

> > >

> > > Now I KNOW the best you can get is a 20 silver recipe or a 2g exotic, maybe that's why I for the most of the time just farm wood and ore.. I really like most of the maps, there is just no reason for me to play them much or do events.

> > >

> > > This has been on my mind for years now, sorry if it's seems like a rant.. i like this game or else i would have walked away at least a year ago, but loot can be *better* or improved in any way arena-net see fit, just improve it, cheers.

> >

> > You seem to not understand how the economy works.

> >

> > All those "Exotic Hunter" weapons actually are on the loot table. They are just very rare. The fact that they are rare is why they still have value. Same with precursers. Everyone gets excited when they get a precurser as a drop. They have value because they are very rare.

> >

> > ANYTHING that's on any loot table has to be extremely rare in order to ever hold it's value. If not, it will become just another junk drop.

>

> You are completely missing the point, 3 years I play and never did I get a precursor or anything that worth more then 5-10 gold, rare is fine but I think it's just a bit TO rare.

> How many more years do I have to run around and get those 5 weapons for Exotic hunter? tell me, or a precursor for that matter.

> If they didn't drop in 3+ years I am confident they won't drop in the next 1-2-3 years.

>

> But this isn't really about that, there is just not enough stuff/items in *loot* that makes it worth while.. if I play on a daily basis for 2-3 hours several maps, DS, AB, SW.. in a month time you would at least expect a nice drop, but no nothing.. just worthless stuff and maybe an exotic worth 2 gold.. that is what my post was about.

>

 

Played for 7 years still need 3 weapons for exotic hunter, exterminator, arthropoda and komalie's sacrificial blade.

So your bet might well be right on the money mate.

Still all what you call worthless add up and if you sell them you would have enough money to buy those weapons.

I havent becouse I feel it like a challenge to get em myself.

I forge alot of 4 daggers, rifles and longbows in the mystic forge hoping for em to drop.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Tiviana.2650" said:

> > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > Not having unique skins, gizmos and other things drop in game from specific bosses, even in story instances, is what this game is missing in terms of replay value.

>

> It really is, one of the core things of playing mmos is trying for that item drop. But they do that because they need to sell in the shop, so having cool things drop in the game would lessen the shop revenue. Honestly F2P/B2P has been a double edged sword, sure people dont want to pay anything after buying a game. But in reality they are paying whether they buy in the shop, or have lack of ingame content to satisfy them, they are still paying a price. I wonder how much people spend a year on game shops? Do they realize that its probably cheaper to pay a sub? I have played for 7 months in that time i spent around 100 bucks real life cash on the shop, and i still didnt get the things i wanted., at that rate it will cost me more than a sub fee game in a years time.

 

To each their own I guess since the game launched I have spent cash on 2k gems other then the basic expansions so said subfee would have been worse for me.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Image.8630" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"Image.8630" said:

> > > What bugs me the most is the items that have no value at all. Cant sell em, cant use em, cant even give em away. On a regular base I delete stacks of Airship Oil, Auric dust and the likes.

> >

> > You dont make fulgurite do you? Always abit more profit from that.

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fulgurite

>

> I have but have no use for that either so they would only create another stack :) I have 1 account (plenty for me) and 2 characters

> I really use and they are fully equipped.

 

Maybe check what you can do with em mate

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jeweled_Damask_Patch

11g75s buyorder 15g10s sell order

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jeweled_Deldrimor_Steel_Plated_Dowel

23g06s buyorder 31g29s sell order

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

An example of an item I thought was a good concept is the Crystal Shard Kite. When I got this drop and saw that holding it increases your movement speed in Dry Top I was pretty excited. To find something in game that had a unique effect and could be useful for micro managing. Turns out it didn't stack with any of the other movement speed buffs at all.

 

If it wasn't a bundle so you can use your skills and if it stacked with all movement speeds in Dry Top only, it could be a great things to have drop and unlock. Items like that would really make the game all that more rich.