Appreciation Post to the Developers Regarding Jormag

[Neo Mortem.3627]

"Diversity is important in any game..." True, but this isn't how it should be done. Humanizing dragons, the very dragons we've been killing up till now, for the sake of inclusivity is just plain weird. Why not introduce a new character or a character that exist but we know so little about and call them non-binary? Get to know the character, have them as part of our little guild? Why do we care about Jormag's "gender identity"? Why should we care about Mordremoth or Zhaitan? They're dead. Why does it have to be a focus at all? It didn't need to be mentioned at all, but it has been. Minority representation is great and all, but if that's your selling point of a character, the only redeeming or highlighted quality in them, then it's a flat character. Kas and Jory feel flat and boring. When they're apart, they don't feel like they offer anything of substance to the story and when they are together, that's what the devs want to focus on (their love/feelings for each other) as if we need reminding that they're lesbians. They've been absent since the end of PoF, barely mentioned other than they're helping out people after Kralk's move and that didn't even feel needed. Like just shoved in the story to show "Hey they still exist!!! Just not here!"

 

If you're up for diversity, but not diverse opinions regarding a subject, then are you even really for diversity and inclusion? Point is if you start a topic but then tell people don't post if you don't agree, why bother posting on an open forum?

 

Elder dragons aren't people. They are sentient, yes, but they aren't people. Why do we suddenly have to feel a connection to this being we might have to kill off in the future? Why bother when we already tried killing it or when an ally tried killing it?

 

Honestly, I'd have more appreciation if ANet introduced a new character to join our guild that fit this gender-identity role so long as that wasn't what they focused on every time we saw the character.

[Talindra.4958]

Im actually surprise that jogmar has such a young voice.. i was actually preferring a deeper stronger and older voice.. but i come to think that mmm his voice is kinda charismatic .. one of way to get ppl to follow him..

[DaFishBob.6518]

Everyone remember now, Jormag is the elder dragon of ice and **persuasion**. Clearly Jormag can and will manipulate the way a message comes across to make the audience as receptive to it as possible. Distorting one's tone or voice is well within the realm of such manipulation so there is no stretch made. One could argue that Jormag has always been the most diplomatic of the elder dragons and would notice and adapt to trends in thinking. There's a new elder dragon that mortals feel they can trust, this dragon identifies as female and uses a female voice to communicate. Mimic this voice and as much of the mannerisms as possible and perhaps more mortals will trust Jormag.

[Kossage.9072]

The reveal is an interesting take on Jormag and may shed some light on the mystery of ages past when dragons had been more numerous in the world. Perhaps before becoming Elder Dragon, Jormag interacted with a glory of dragons and identified themself as non-binary to their dragon brethren. Even Glint had limited memory of ages past, so there's a lot to be learned about the origins of the Elder Dragons and their gradual change into their current forms (as the article seemed to confirm Matthew Medina's earlier discussion about Mordremoth's potential origins being more draconic and less plant-based). It would be interesting if we ran into Zhaitan and Mordremoth's souls in the Mists (since technically no being was at ground zero to consume their souls and thus they should've entered whatever the dragon afterlife is) and could try to ask their hopefully no longer tormented selves more about early Tyrian history about a dragon-dominated world.

 

I hope we'll learn one day how Taimi and Gorrik came to the conclusion that Jormag is non-binary, though. Sons of Svanir will claim Jormag is male, the atoning Rojan the Penitent wouldn't know any better (as far as we know despite him hearing Jormag's whispers from time to time), and most Icebrood aren't interested in having a conversation and those that would be willing to talk without bashing our faces in aren't going to discuss their dragon master's gender but focus on preaching about Dragon's power over all. Did Taimi's little glimpse into the Antikytheria of the All, using Omadd/Taimi's Machine as revealed in Season 3, cause her to glimpse Jormag's gender identity by any chance, or did she discover the truth some other way? Or is the use of the "they" pronoun simply meant to suggest that Tyrian scholars will be gradually starting to use "they" instead of "it" as the norm for Elder Dragons without known gender as they've come to realize how all these dragons are beings with personalities and desires (as we learned how manipulative Zhaitan, Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik were and how they intended to bring about their own version of utopia in past stories)?

 

It'll be interesting to find out where the story takes this concept, and if we have a chance of potentially meeting Jormag's scion(s) (if such exist) to draw parallels between them and the relationship between Glint and Kralkatorrik. :)

[VonGlitchaupt.7134]

> @"perilisk.1874" said:

> The gender of an elder dragon is like the color of a sound.

 

Funny you should mention that, some of us have synaesthesia and do see colour to sound... or in some cases tastes of sound. We all see and experience the world very differently. For example you know that women can distinguish between significantly more nuances of green than men can?

 

Besides, isn't a gender on an Elder Drag akin to the Q from the Q Continuum just choosing whatever form they like as representation of their personalities quirks?

Im good with that, it makes for fun story telling possibilities.

[coso.9173]

why are people even talking about lgbtq issues just because Jormag has a female voice? Or did I miss anything else? dragons are pretty much agender, they can have a female voice for the same reasons others can have a male voice, it doesn't mean anything, and definitely doesn't mean the dragon is part of the lgbtq community or anything. I really don't see the big deal at all.

[SpyderArachnid.5619]

> @"coso.9173" said:

> why are people even talking about lgbtq issues just because Jormag has a female voice? Or did I miss anything else? dragons are pretty much agender, they can have a female voice for the same reasons others can have a male voice, it doesn't mean anything, and definitely doesn't mean the dragon is part of the lgbtq community or anything. I really don't see the big deal at all.

 

Because Anet popped into Twitter and told everyone that Jormag is non-binary and is voiced by a female actress. And then of course, there is this section from the magazine calling Jormag a "her" now and talking about gender identity of dragons:

 

https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/files/assets/common/pages-content/pg05-0609%202.png?uni=ca500978769f68ed90e960fb542f5102

 

And now there is a bunch of confusion as to how this affects the already established lore and story of the game with Jormag being a male. Now they are changing Jormag to a female and saying their gender is non-binary. As well, the Sons of Svanir would never follow a female/non-binary dragon as they are misogynistic. So it makes absolutely no sense that Jormag would be female. It's change for the sake of diversity/pandering. Thus the whole bringing up the LGBT thing.

[Super Hayes.6890]

I play this game for the same reason I play any game, to have fun. As long as they keep the game fun I don't care how the dragon I'm killing identifies. If this game begins to put making a statement for any particular community ahead of keeping it fun I'm out. Sorry, but I didn't pay for this game to get into a debate. I bought it to have fun. So far so good. They seem to know what they're doing so we'll see how this plays out.

[Ishtar.6457]

> @"coso.9173" said:

> why are people even talking about lgbtq issues just because Jormag has a female voice? Or did I miss anything else? dragons are pretty much agender, they can have a female voice for the same reasons others can have a male voice, it doesn't mean anything, and definitely doesn't mean the dragon is part of the lgbtq community or anything. I really don't see the big deal at all.

 

Yet this dumb "appreciation" thread appear. What a mystery huh.

[videoboy.4162]

> @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

> > @"coso.9173" said:

> > why are people even talking about lgbtq issues just because Jormag has a female voice? Or did I miss anything else? dragons are pretty much agender, they can have a female voice for the same reasons others can have a male voice, it doesn't mean anything, and definitely doesn't mean the dragon is part of the lgbtq community or anything. I really don't see the big deal at all.

>

> Because Anet popped into Twitter and told everyone that Jormag is non-binary and is voiced by a female actress. And then of course, there is this section from the magazine calling Jormag a "her" now and talking about gender identity of dragons:

>

> https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/files/assets/common/pages-content/pg05-0609%202.png?uni=ca500978769f68ed90e960fb542f5102

>

> And now there is a bunch of confusion as to how this affects the already established lore and story of the game with Jormag being a male. Now they are changing Jormag to a female and saying their gender is non-binary. As well, the Sons of Svanir would never follow a female/non-binary dragon as they are misogynistic. So it makes absolutely no sense that Jormag would be female. It's change for the sake of diversity/pandering. Thus the whole bringing up the LGBT thing.

 

I think I'm missing some information somewhere. Can you link me to where the Devs stated Jormag is non-binary and/or to where Jormag is now referred to as "her?" It's not in the link you gave already.

[Linken.6345]

> @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

> > > @"coso.9173" said:

> > > why are people even talking about lgbtq issues just because Jormag has a female voice? Or did I miss anything else? dragons are pretty much agender, they can have a female voice for the same reasons others can have a male voice, it doesn't mean anything, and definitely doesn't mean the dragon is part of the lgbtq community or anything. I really don't see the big deal at all.

> >

> > Because Anet popped into Twitter and told everyone that Jormag is non-binary and is voiced by a female actress. And then of course, there is this section from the magazine calling Jormag a "her" now and talking about gender identity of dragons:

> >

> > https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/files/assets/common/pages-content/pg05-0609%202.png?uni=ca500978769f68ed90e960fb542f5102

> >

> > And now there is a bunch of confusion as to how this affects the already established lore and story of the game with Jormag being a male. Now they are changing Jormag to a female and saying their gender is non-binary. As well, the Sons of Svanir would never follow a female/non-binary dragon as they are misogynistic. So it makes absolutely no sense that Jormag would be female. It's change for the sake of diversity/pandering. Thus the whole bringing up the LGBT thing.

>

> I think I'm missing some information somewhere. Can you link me to where the Devs stated Jormag is non-binary and/or to where Jormag is now referred to as "her?" It's not in the link you gave already.

 

Maybe click the red links in the OP?

 

 

https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/5-6/index.html

 

Second link you have to click on jormag to read about it hint its in the red texts.

[videoboy.4162]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > > @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

> > > > @"coso.9173" said:

> > > > why are people even talking about lgbtq issues just because Jormag has a female voice? Or did I miss anything else? dragons are pretty much agender, they can have a female voice for the same reasons others can have a male voice, it doesn't mean anything, and definitely doesn't mean the dragon is part of the lgbtq community or anything. I really don't see the big deal at all.

> > >

> > > Because Anet popped into Twitter and told everyone that Jormag is non-binary and is voiced by a female actress. And then of course, there is this section from the magazine calling Jormag a "her" now and talking about gender identity of dragons:

> > >

> > > https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/files/assets/common/pages-content/pg05-0609%202.png?uni=ca500978769f68ed90e960fb542f5102

> > >

> > > And now there is a bunch of confusion as to how this affects the already established lore and story of the game with Jormag being a male. Now they are changing Jormag to a female and saying their gender is non-binary. As well, the Sons of Svanir would never follow a female/non-binary dragon as they are misogynistic. So it makes absolutely no sense that Jormag would be female. It's change for the sake of diversity/pandering. Thus the whole bringing up the LGBT thing.

> >

> > I think I'm missing some information somewhere. Can you link me to where the Devs stated Jormag is non-binary and/or to where Jormag is now referred to as "her?" It's not in the link you gave already.

>

> Maybe click the red links in the OP?

>

>

>

> https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/5-6/index.html

>

> Second link you have to click on jormag to read about it hint its in the red texts.

 

I did click the link in the OP. That red text is just Gorrik commenting on why Taimi used "they" instead of "he" since they'd started learning more about how Dragons present themselves. He's commenting on how they don't know whether Jormag really presents as male or not. The tweet is a better source, but I wish he'd elaborated more.

 

[coso.9173]

if most people considered dragons to not have a gender before, that's pretty much what non binary means (not exactly but close), so I don't see why the fuzz with about making jormag nonbinary,

[Linken.6345]

> @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > > > @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

> > > > > @"coso.9173" said:

> > > > > why are people even talking about lgbtq issues just because Jormag has a female voice? Or did I miss anything else? dragons are pretty much agender, they can have a female voice for the same reasons others can have a male voice, it doesn't mean anything, and definitely doesn't mean the dragon is part of the lgbtq community or anything. I really don't see the big deal at all.

> > > >

> > > > Because Anet popped into Twitter and told everyone that Jormag is non-binary and is voiced by a female actress. And then of course, there is this section from the magazine calling Jormag a "her" now and talking about gender identity of dragons:

> > > >

> > > > https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/files/assets/common/pages-content/pg05-0609%202.png?uni=ca500978769f68ed90e960fb542f5102

> > > >

> > > > And now there is a bunch of confusion as to how this affects the already established lore and story of the game with Jormag being a male. Now they are changing Jormag to a female and saying their gender is non-binary. As well, the Sons of Svanir would never follow a female/non-binary dragon as they are misogynistic. So it makes absolutely no sense that Jormag would be female. It's change for the sake of diversity/pandering. Thus the whole bringing up the LGBT thing.

> > >

> > > I think I'm missing some information somewhere. Can you link me to where the Devs stated Jormag is non-binary and/or to where Jormag is now referred to as "her?" It's not in the link you gave already.

> >

> > Maybe click the red links in the OP?

> >

> >

> >

> > https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/5-6/index.html

> >

> > Second link you have to click on jormag to read about it hint its in the red texts.

>

> I did click the link in the OP. That red text is just Gorrik commenting on why Taimi used "they" instead of "he" since they'd started learning more about how Dragons present themselves. He's commenting on how they don't know whether Jormag really presents as male or not. The tweet is a better source, but I wish he'd elaborated more.

>

 

It clearly reads She not He.

[videoboy.4162]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > > > > @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

> > > > > > @"coso.9173" said:

> > > > > > why are people even talking about lgbtq issues just because Jormag has a female voice? Or did I miss anything else? dragons are pretty much agender, they can have a female voice for the same reasons others can have a male voice, it doesn't mean anything, and definitely doesn't mean the dragon is part of the lgbtq community or anything. I really don't see the big deal at all.

> > > > >

> > > > > Because Anet popped into Twitter and told everyone that Jormag is non-binary and is voiced by a female actress. And then of course, there is this section from the magazine calling Jormag a "her" now and talking about gender identity of dragons:

> > > > >

> > > > > https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/files/assets/common/pages-content/pg05-0609%202.png?uni=ca500978769f68ed90e960fb542f5102

> > > > >

> > > > > And now there is a bunch of confusion as to how this affects the already established lore and story of the game with Jormag being a male. Now they are changing Jormag to a female and saying their gender is non-binary. As well, the Sons of Svanir would never follow a female/non-binary dragon as they are misogynistic. So it makes absolutely no sense that Jormag would be female. It's change for the sake of diversity/pandering. Thus the whole bringing up the LGBT thing.

> > > >

> > > > I think I'm missing some information somewhere. Can you link me to where the Devs stated Jormag is non-binary and/or to where Jormag is now referred to as "her?" It's not in the link you gave already.

> > >

> > > Maybe click the red links in the OP?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/5-6/index.html

> > >

> > > Second link you have to click on jormag to read about it hint its in the red texts.

> >

> > I did click the link in the OP. That red text is just Gorrik commenting on why Taimi used "they" instead of "he" since they'd started learning more about how Dragons present themselves. He's commenting on how they don't know whether Jormag really presents as male or not. The tweet is a better source, but I wish he'd elaborated more.

> >

>

> It clearly reads She not He.

 

She is in reference to Aurene, not Jormag.

[Linken.6345]

> @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > > @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > > > > > @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

> > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said:

> > > > > > > why are people even talking about lgbtq issues just because Jormag has a female voice? Or did I miss anything else? dragons are pretty much agender, they can have a female voice for the same reasons others can have a male voice, it doesn't mean anything, and definitely doesn't mean the dragon is part of the lgbtq community or anything. I really don't see the big deal at all.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because Anet popped into Twitter and told everyone that Jormag is non-binary and is voiced by a female actress. And then of course, there is this section from the magazine calling Jormag a "her" now and talking about gender identity of dragons:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/files/assets/common/pages-content/pg05-0609%202.png?uni=ca500978769f68ed90e960fb542f5102

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And now there is a bunch of confusion as to how this affects the already established lore and story of the game with Jormag being a male. Now they are changing Jormag to a female and saying their gender is non-binary. As well, the Sons of Svanir would never follow a female/non-binary dragon as they are misogynistic. So it makes absolutely no sense that Jormag would be female. It's change for the sake of diversity/pandering. Thus the whole bringing up the LGBT thing.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think I'm missing some information somewhere. Can you link me to where the Devs stated Jormag is non-binary and/or to where Jormag is now referred to as "her?" It's not in the link you gave already.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe click the red links in the OP?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/5-6/index.html

> > > >

> > > > Second link you have to click on jormag to read about it hint its in the red texts.

> > >

> > > I did click the link in the OP. That red text is just Gorrik commenting on why Taimi used "they" instead of "he" since they'd started learning more about how Dragons present themselves. He's commenting on how they don't know whether Jormag really presents as male or not. The tweet is a better source, but I wish he'd elaborated more.

> > >

> >

> > It clearly reads She not He.

>

> She is in reference to Aurene, not Jormag.

 

I say thats unclear just becouse the first sentence speak about aurene evolved our understanding about dragons gender identity, dont mean that the sentece after still is speaking about aurene could very well be jormag

[videoboy.4162]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > > > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > > > @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > > > > > > @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

> > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said:

> > > > > > > > why are people even talking about lgbtq issues just because Jormag has a female voice? Or did I miss anything else? dragons are pretty much agender, they can have a female voice for the same reasons others can have a male voice, it doesn't mean anything, and definitely doesn't mean the dragon is part of the lgbtq community or anything. I really don't see the big deal at all.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Because Anet popped into Twitter and told everyone that Jormag is non-binary and is voiced by a female actress. And then of course, there is this section from the magazine calling Jormag a "her" now and talking about gender identity of dragons:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/files/assets/common/pages-content/pg05-0609%202.png?uni=ca500978769f68ed90e960fb542f5102

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And now there is a bunch of confusion as to how this affects the already established lore and story of the game with Jormag being a male. Now they are changing Jormag to a female and saying their gender is non-binary. As well, the Sons of Svanir would never follow a female/non-binary dragon as they are misogynistic. So it makes absolutely no sense that Jormag would be female. It's change for the sake of diversity/pandering. Thus the whole bringing up the LGBT thing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think I'm missing some information somewhere. Can you link me to where the Devs stated Jormag is non-binary and/or to where Jormag is now referred to as "her?" It's not in the link you gave already.

> > > > >

> > > > > Maybe click the red links in the OP?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/5-6/index.html

> > > > >

> > > > > Second link you have to click on jormag to read about it hint its in the red texts.

> > > >

> > > > I did click the link in the OP. That red text is just Gorrik commenting on why Taimi used "they" instead of "he" since they'd started learning more about how Dragons present themselves. He's commenting on how they don't know whether Jormag really presents as male or not. The tweet is a better source, but I wish he'd elaborated more.

> > > >

> > >

> > > It clearly reads She not He.

> >

> > She is in reference to Aurene, not Jormag.

>

> I say thats unclear just becouse the first sentence speak about aurene evolved our understanding about dragons gender identity, dont mean that the sentece after still is speaking about aurene could very well be jormag

 

The comma in that sentence prevents "her" from referring to anyone but Aurene . Gorrik is telling you to ask Aurene about dragon identities.

[Linken.6345]

> @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > > @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > > > > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > > > > @"videoboy.4162" said:

> > > > > > > > @"SpyderArachnid.5619" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"coso.9173" said:

> > > > > > > > > why are people even talking about lgbtq issues just because Jormag has a female voice? Or did I miss anything else? dragons are pretty much agender, they can have a female voice for the same reasons others can have a male voice, it doesn't mean anything, and definitely doesn't mean the dragon is part of the lgbtq community or anything. I really don't see the big deal at all.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Because Anet popped into Twitter and told everyone that Jormag is non-binary and is voiced by a female actress. And then of course, there is this section from the magazine calling Jormag a "her" now and talking about gender identity of dragons:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/files/assets/common/pages-content/pg05-0609%202.png?uni=ca500978769f68ed90e960fb542f5102

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And now there is a bunch of confusion as to how this affects the already established lore and story of the game with Jormag being a male. Now they are changing Jormag to a female and saying their gender is non-binary. As well, the Sons of Svanir would never follow a female/non-binary dragon as they are misogynistic. So it makes absolutely no sense that Jormag would be female. It's change for the sake of diversity/pandering. Thus the whole bringing up the LGBT thing.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I think I'm missing some information somewhere. Can you link me to where the Devs stated Jormag is non-binary and/or to where Jormag is now referred to as "her?" It's not in the link you gave already.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Maybe click the red links in the OP?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > https://s3.amazonaws.com/guildwars2.com_uploads/livingworldmagazine/icebroodsaga_magazine_EN/5-6/index.html

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Second link you have to click on jormag to read about it hint its in the red texts.

> > > > >

> > > > > I did click the link in the OP. That red text is just Gorrik commenting on why Taimi used "they" instead of "he" since they'd started learning more about how Dragons present themselves. He's commenting on how they don't know whether Jormag really presents as male or not. The tweet is a better source, but I wish he'd elaborated more.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > It clearly reads She not He.

> > >

> > > She is in reference to Aurene, not Jormag.

> >

> > I say thats unclear just becouse the first sentence speak about aurene evolved our understanding about dragons gender identity, dont mean that the sentece after still is speaking about aurene could very well be jormag

>

> The comma in that sentence prevents "her" from referring to anyone but Aurene . Gorrik is telling you to ask Aurene about dragon identities.

 

What you see as a , I see as a .

[Rvannith.8364]

I don't think this is entirely a good thing! In the lore, Jormag and his minions are presented as pretty misogynistic. Diversity is important, and ANet have done a fairly good job at presenting LGBT characters in a number of contexts, especially KasJory. On the other hand, after talking with other LGBT people who play the game, this does seem like a bit off base: it seems edged in, in a "look at us, we have dIvErSiTy" manner done for publicity rather than honestly inserting diverse and marginalised characters into the game world as ANet has done in the past: and quite well, might I add.

 

There's also the issue about using a villain as a LGBT character, given the historical tropes of coding "bad guys" as lesbians, gays or trans people. Quoting a post I saw on twitter: "As an actual non-binary person who exists, I'm not interested in the fictional thoughts of a fictional character. I would like to be LESS aware of the opinions of writers who can only imagine non-binary identities in the context of nonhumans, but alas, the topic keeps coming up." There's significant room for critique here, and most of it appears to be coming from LGBT people.

[Razor.6392]

When I read about that non-binary stuff _on a dragon_ I legit burst out laughing. Like, let's pretend I'm following you for a second, how do the Tyrians EVEN KNOW ABOUT THIS STUFF? WAS JORMAG SEEN WITH MULTIPLE GENDER PARTNERS? OR DID HE TELL THE ICEBROOD IN A SECRET MEETING?

 

HAHAHAHAHA.

 

You guys don't realize that, much like "Soldier 76 is gay", this is just a PR move to get the same clueless people infatuated after the fiasco that was the reveal, and to divert everyone else's attention.

[Ubi.4136]

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > @"EmperorMoth.2709" said:

> > > As a side note, if Jormag's gender **doesn't matter to you** feel free to spend your time posting on a thread that is not this one. This is not an the thread for you.

> >

> > Shouldn't we try to be inclusive? ;)

> >

> > I agree that diversity matters, even when somebody on another thread wrote they didn't get why some of us thought it worth mentioning that the amount of gay Vabbians at that particular heart quest seems to have been decreased sagnificantly. They said that representation of gays and lesbians in video games doesn't make a difference in RL - **but it does**. It all happens on a subconscious level.

> >

> > So, yes, cool that Jormag turns out to be a female dragon. :+1: Especially in the light of the Sons of Svanir being misogynists, heh heh. B)

>

> I'm actually glad that Jormag is a female villain. I think she's actually pretty epic. And I don't care about the number of gays in a video game.

 

This pretty much. There are biological reasons why the sex of the villain could matter (i.e dragon eggs, etc, future children), but I don't care about anyone's sexuality or sexual preferences, because it's none of my business. I don't know why we have reached a point where everyone thinks the rest of us care what your preferences are in bed...we don't. The bad guys or heroes aren't going to be better or worse at doing what they do because they like the same sex or opposite sex...it literally has almost no bearing on the world what you do behind closed doors (or with who). Here's some advice: keep pillow talk to that, and be a good person and treat everyone equally and fairly.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"EmperorMoth.2709" said:

> Diversity is important in any game, especially for minorities so it was great to see something that encouraged the re-evaluation of past beliefs. I particularly liked where Tom said "It all derives from thinking of EDs not as animals but as people".

 

It's not new though. Elder Dragons were deemed non-binary (though in different terms) back in 2010.

 

Kralkatorrik was technically the first binary-gendered Elder Dragon. And that feels like it was done because terms like "grandfather" is more emotional than gender neutral equivalents like "grandparent". Just ask yourself, which invokes more emotion: "Grandfather! Look at me!" or "Grandparent! Look at me!" - definitely the former.

 

Even Mordremoth is never called a male despite the VA. Jormag was called male, but only by norn and 95% of those norn are misogynists who worship Jormag.

 

ArenaNet has never shied from diversity in GW2.

 

> @"Funky.4861" said:

> Also, Mordremoth should have been the non-binary elder dragon, being plant-based etc...

 

He was. So was Zhaitan. And Primordus.

 

> @"coso.9173" said:

> if most people considered dragons to not have a gender before, that's pretty much what non binary means (not exactly but close), so I don't see why the fuzz with about making jormag nonbinary,

 

Yeah, it's rather strange. They told us this back in 2010. No one gave a shit, some people thought it was cool or made sense.

 

But now, 9 years later, it sparks a shitstorm and appreciation threads on old topics.

[MrForz.1953]

I do not know what people are looking for these days. Jormag's gender should only be a detail developped for curiosity's sake, not... whatever the goal is and certainly not a rallying flag. A fight for equality or spotlight shouldn't undermine an opposing party if there is even one worth mentioning. Instead of reacting to Jormag's gender and be like "Hm, interesting, worth noting." One party whines that it's political while the other goes like "HA, IN YOUR FACE YOU OPPRESSORS!". That's not equality, that's two factions who made eachother enemies and fighting for scraps.

 

I'm pretty sure that Anet didn't do anything political on this one given the threads asking for ED genders for the sake of curiosity and if they truly are beyond comprehension as species. But almost everyone makes a big deal of it for their own insecurities, I can't even fathom the relationship between the two and I'm certainly sure it's not diversity by its true definition, meanwhile the retaliation is likely too harsh too. Can't appreciate things the way they are.

[Funky.4861]

You can't, by definition, be non-binary and male/female. Nonbinary means neither gender, not male, not female, somewhere in-between. Mordy was definitely male, kralk male, glint female, vlast male, aurene female but really, if we get to thwart a major non-binary character, i'm happy to rain on the non-binary parade :)

[Linken.6345]

> @"Funky.4861" said:

> You can't, by definition, be non-binary and male/female. Nonbinary means neither gender, not male, not female, somewhere in-between. Mordy was definitely male, kralk male, glint female, vlast male, aurene female but really, if we get to thwart a major non-binary character, i'm happy to rain on the non-binary parade :)

 

Considering we dont want to kill any more dragons whats make you think we will rain on non-binary parade exactly?