Deflecting shot

[Eugchriss.2046]

Before we start, let us all agree on a few things. We all agree that when a skill/trait is broken it needs to be nerfed/fixed, this means

* whatever the skill, if it's broken it needs to be fixed

* whatever the class the skill belongs to (even renegade), if it's broken it needs to be fixed

* whatever tier the class/spec is atm, if it's broken, it needs to be fixed

* no matter how many times the class/spec has been nerfed before, if it's broken it needs to be fixed

 

Now imagine holo elite: Prime beam Light. This skill hits is a range skill, has some pretty good damage, launch foes AND is unblockable ( What a combo). The question is how could you counter this shit?

* either LOS

* either blind

* either invul

* either evade

* either tp far enough

 

Now in order to do the 3 latter, you need to have enough time to see what skill you enemy is casting, and you need time to react. Thank god PBL has 1min cd and more than 1 sec cast time, so it's clearly dodgeable

Now imagine PBL having a 10 secs cd. Sounds pretty bad. Now imagine it having 10 secs cd and 1/4 sec cast time..... well that s what DH LB #3 (traited is). An unblockable, whilst blocking projectile, low cd, near to instant cast time stun. How the f*ck are you supposed to dodge this sh*t? What the point of getting stunned while having stab? It's like if there were a skill which could reach target whilst they re stealthed and revealed them. Do not talk about gaze darkness please, there is a range constraint, so it can actually miss. Deflecting shot, thanks to it cast time of 1/4ssec, has a 99% hit success (the other 1% is a randomly lucky dodge or LOS).

 

I don t know what you guys think but for me, this is clearly broken. The problem is not the skills itself but the synergy with the traits (Heavy light). I could pass on the stun if and only if it's blockable and at least a .75 sec cast time.

[SeikeNz.3526]

not sure if troll dragonhunter bow is so useless and u want to nerf it more?

[Eugchriss.2046]

As I said:

> @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> * whatever tier the class/spec is atm, if it's broken, it needs to be fixed

 

The question is: is that skill broken or not?

[rng.1024]

The counter to it is range. The further away from the DH you are, the longer travel time and resulting time to react. You can even sidestep it leaving the guardian with no pressuring tools.

 

And no, just because you have to wait 4-5 secs to get on node doesn't make it any more op than a scourge dropping it's elite on there, it's a setup skill that requires proper timing to land and investment into glass amulets and traitlines if you want to come close to the dmg numbers of Holo elite.

[praqtos.9035]

Its a skill shot, not auto aim bs ignoring terrain, laser does ignore it, what was the complaint once again ?

[SeikeNz.3526]

> @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> As I said:

> > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > * whatever tier the class/spec is atm, if it's broken, it needs to be fixed

>

> The question is: is that skill broken or not?

 

its not, its a skill shot very hard to hit with low area, you need to waste a trait to knock down people, other bow skills have huge cast time with low damage even the auto atk look like block with a huge cast time

[phokus.8934]

This is how memes are made.

[Eugchriss.2046]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> The counter to it is range. The further away from the DH you are, the longer travel time and resulting time to react. You can even sidestep it leaving the guardian with no pressuring tools.>

> And no, just because you have to wait 4-5 secs to get on node doesn't make it any more op than a scourge dropping it's elite on there.

Scourge elite is "static". You can react, if you were close, you can block some ticks, move out. In short terms: YOU CAN ACTUALLY REACT.

> @"rng.1024" said:

> it's a setup skill that requires proper timing to land and investment into glass amulets and traitlines if you want to come close to the dmg numbers of Holo elite.

I didn t do the math but i m pretty sure that in terms of damage per seconds, there are close to each other(even without glassy amulet). "proper timing" lul...whenever you re being ganked, just used it, 100% garantee to stun the ganker. Rampage is a press to win, this one is a press to stun, no matter what the opponent do.

 

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> Its a skill shot, not auto aim bs ignoring terrain, laser does ignore it, what was the complaint once again ?

Does that justify the fact to bypass stab???

 

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > As I said:

> > > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > > * whatever tier the class/spec is atm, if it's broken, it needs to be fixed

> >

> > The question is: is that skill broken or not?

>

> its not, its a skill shot very hard to hit with low area, you need to waste a trait to knock down people, other bow skills have huge cast time with low damage even the auto atk look like block with a huge cast time

You re completely mistaken. Instead of talking about the skill and only the skill, you re comparing it to others. It's hard to hit if you re blind. Don t tell me that you have to intensely think of where your enemy is before aiming in that direction.

 

My issue is unlockable and stun shouldn't be used for the same skill. This combo is a kind of exploit to bypass stab. If we start bypassing stab, why not bypass resistance, why not bypass invul???

A simple change to the trait: "Deflecting shadow is now blockable but knocks back ennemy on each hit.". That way dh wont have the best of both world and will have to actually make tradeoffs .

[Eugchriss.2046]

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> This is how memes are made.

This is how useless comments are made.

[praqtos.9035]

> @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

>Does that justify the fact to bypass stab???

It doesnt bypass stab but with revocation it can remove it and CC you through, like on all stuns including bullcharge,boulder, FC or whatever, remove stab with revocation and screw you over, best solution to remove revocation entirely but thats up to ouhno-net, not me

[phokus.8934]

> @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > @"phokus.8934" said:

> > This is how memes are made.

> This is how useless comments are made.

When you make a ridiculous post like this then it's super easy.

 

It's almost as if you don't know how to dodge, never played DH LB, and run yolo mode at the enemy.

 

"Before we start, let us all agree on a few things. "

You're complaining about DH LB in PvP. That tells me and everyone else everything we need to know about your skill level.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Dh bow and all of its skills are far from broken lol if anything could use some small buffs, and no I dont play guardian or its specs much.

[DEATHsCLAW.1978]

you forgot 2 big differences between the two skills you are comparing

 

Deflecting Shot is 1)slow and 2) has to be aimed manually.

 

besides that you are comparing the kit of a bugatti veyron (holo) to a Mini Cooper (DH) with a cool spoiler and you really want to take that away??

 

 

[ArthurDent.9538]

I was going to laugh about this thread but I did look deflecting shot over and it is worth noting that deflecting shot did get a 80% damage buff recently bringing its power multiplier to 1.8, for reference it does about 90% of the damage of True Shot which is at 2.0 with 3/4 second cast time. With a tiny 1/4 second cast time this puts deflecting shot as an actually fairly significant outlier for having an extremely high damage/cast time ratio, like higher than almost everything except backstab and instant casts. Still I don't agree with his premise on "when a skill/trait is broken it needs to be nerfed/fixed" in this context as the skill is currently working as intended it is just actually very strong right now but is flying under most people's radars who aren't realizing how large an 80% damage buff is.

[Math.5123]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> I was going to laugh about this thread but I did look deflecting shot over and it is worth noting that deflecting shot did get a 80% damage buff recently bringing its power multiplier to 1.8, for reference it does about 90% of the damage of True Shot which is at 2.0 with 3/4 second cast time. With a tiny 1/4 second cast time this puts deflecting shot as an actually fairly significant outlier for having an extremely high damage/cast time ratio, like higher than almost everything except backstab and instant casts. Still I don't agree with his premise on "when a skill/trait is broken it needs to be nerfed/fixed" in this context as the skill is currently working as intended it is just actually very strong right now but is flying under most people's radars who aren't realizing how large an 80% damage buff is.

 

80% of nothing is still nothing.

It reliably crits for around 4k after the buff on targets without protection. Which is still less than most other skills on equal cooldown. It also has to be manually aimed and has an incredibly slow projectile speed. It's almost impossible to hit outside of melee against a semi competent player.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

If u wanna shave down a guard spec maybe shift ur focus to fb, a spec that's actually overperforming and not a spec that's just angered u by killing u lol

[Stand The Wall.6987]

lol that's pretty much the only usable skill on the weapon.

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

It requires a trait to knock back, it's manual aimed, it's slow and doesn't even need to be dodged, just side step as it has a very narrow hit box, LB is pretty lack luster over all. PLB is a 3.0, while DS is 1.8, PLB also has field damage, wider hit box, it persists for 10 seconds and pules 10 times, and has burning. All untraited and does not consider the whole kit that they have over DH. And in all honesty DS should knock back without a trait.

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > I was going to laugh about this thread but I did look deflecting shot over and it is worth noting that deflecting shot did get a 80% damage buff recently bringing its power multiplier to 1.8, for reference it does about 90% of the damage of True Shot which is at 2.0 with 3/4 second cast time. With a tiny 1/4 second cast time this puts deflecting shot as an actually fairly significant outlier for having an extremely high damage/cast time ratio, like higher than almost everything except backstab and instant casts. Still I don't agree with his premise on "when a skill/trait is broken it needs to be nerfed/fixed" in this context as the skill is currently working as intended it is just actually very strong right now but is flying under most people's radars who aren't realizing how large an 80% damage buff is.

>

> 80% of nothing is still nothing.

 

Correct but not applicable in this situation, it used to have 1.0 power scaling which isn't amazing but it is on par with many skills that are considered to do good damage for instance, Earthshaker is is also at 1.0. Now it's at 1.8 which is close to sub 50% arcing slice and tier 1 evsicerate, this is a heavy hitting skill now.

 

> It reliably crits for around 4k after the buff on targets without protection. Which is still less than most other skills on equal cooldown.

 

Meaningless anecdote there, how many might stacks? how many vuln stacks? target toughness? what build in particular are we talking about? If it's consistently criting for 4k without stacking might/vuln on the traditional marauder meditrapper, then that is really strong. I'm anecdotally happy when my rev sword 4 hits for 4k, a skill that has 4 times the cast time, 50% higher cooldown, an extra resource cost in addition to it's cooldown, less than half the range, and does diluted damage when hitting multiple enemies, yet people still complain that is does "insane burst damage" (btw only 2.0 power scaling now, so only ~10% higher than deflecting shot under same conditions).

 

>It also has to be manually aimed and has an incredibly slow projectile speed. It's almost impossible to hit outside of melee against a semi competent player.

 

These points I can agree with though considering the skill hits harder than most melee skills on a much shorter cast time, having it only be reliable in melee isn't that bad at all. The other point to defend how strong this skill is how the rest of longbow dragon hunter's kit isn't particularly strong so it's just a carry skill.

[Arkantos.7460]

yez, plz nerf Prime Light Beam its FOR REAL BROKEN high range, dps, ae fire field, explosionfinisher , UNBLOCKABLE, low cd, low cast time .... broken

who cares about deflecting shot ...

[aelska.4609]

Kind of agree with op, this is typically the kind of skills that has lead to cancerous state of pvp. Tooltip is too long, too many effects, can be fired backwards, etc.

Although other shits are even more op (prime light beam :) ) that's not a reason to close the eyes on other problems.

[mes.4607]

What in the actual heck is this post??? Buff DH!

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Arkantos.7460" said:

> yez, plz nerf Prime Light Beam its FOR REAL BROKEN high range, dps, ae fire field, explosionfinisher , UNBLOCKABLE, low cd, low cast time .... broken

> who cares about deflecting shot ...

 

Exactly

[Eugchriss.2046]

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> > > @"phokus.8934" said:

> > > This is how memes are made.

> > This is how useless comments are made.

> When you make a ridiculous post like this then it's super easy.

>

> It's almost as if you don't know how to dodge, never played DH LB, and run yolo mode at the enemy.

>

> "Before we start, let us all agree on a few things. "

> You're complaining about DH LB in PvP. That tells me and everyone else everything we need to know about your skill level.

 

Well, you sound kinda upset. First, since when complaining about a specific skill tell something about the skill level? Like if I am complaining about renegade, does it mean that I am a silver? If I am complaining about holo, does it mean I am a legend? What if I am complaining about both? That s a terrible and poor way of thinking.

Anyway lets recap: I made a thread in which I explain with my experience what exactly I find broken. I explained why it was broken. I suggested changes that sound fair to me. Meanwhile, you came in, made a troll post just to get like. It doesn't work, so you insult my experience of being "ridiculous" without saying what exactly is ridiculous or why it is. I m not even mentioning the fact that you re completely wrong with what I m complaining about. I m not complaining about DH LB, I am **specifically **complaining about DH LB #3 being a low cd, **close to insta, unblockable crowd controll**.

So please, If you don t have anything to say about DH LB#3, feel free to not answer. If you don t have any arguments about why it s (or not) broken, feel free not to answer. If you re not in a state of mind that allows you to debate like a grown man with real and concrete facts, feel free not to answer.

Cheers.

[Eugchriss.2046]

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> >Does that justify the fact to bypass stab???

> It doesnt bypass stab but with revocation it can remove it and CC you through, like on all stuns including bullcharge,boulder, FC or whatever, remove stab with revocation and screw you over, best solution to remove revocation entirely but thats up to ouhno-net, not me

 

If only revocation was involved....The thing is it s not. That skill + the trait simply ignore anything that s not invul, stab or not, you get knocked.

The target had stab before and I used the skill. He still have it after I used it, but yet he got knocked down. It s basically a counter to a counter.

 

**I ran some test whilst writing this I figured out that I was wrong. This skill doesn t bypass stab on it s own. So it s now less broken than I though, but still.**