Give us an optional subscription for convenience stuff

[Ultramex.1506]

> @"Braile.3894" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > Trust me, you don't want that. Optional subscription games always end up crippling their base functionality in order to push players towards the subscrition.

> >

> > Full, obligatory subscription is practically always a better choice than an optional one. Asking for that is just asking for a system that mixes the worst parts of both cashshop and subscription systems together.

>

> Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money.

>

 

You must not into farming then and just throw money at inconveniences you face

I've only pay for Expansions and farm gold for everything else so where did that get me?

* 22 character slots

* 5 shared inventory slots

* 3 unlimited harvesting tools

 

Just to name a few

[kharmin.7683]

> @"Ultramex.1506" said:

> > @"Braile.3894" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > Trust me, you don't want that. Optional subscription games always end up crippling their base functionality in order to push players towards the subscrition.

> > >

> > > Full, obligatory subscription is practically always a better choice than an optional one. Asking for that is just asking for a system that mixes the worst parts of both cashshop and subscription systems together.

> >

> > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money.

> >

>

> You must not into farming then and just throw money at inconveniences you face

> I've only pay for Expansions and farm gold for everything else so where did that get me?

> * 22 character slots

> * 5 shared inventory slots

> * 3 unlimited harvesting tools

>

> Just to name a few

 

Right. I think that some players are unwilling to take the time to actually play the game to get the gold to convert to gems to buy convenience items. They want it now. Anet has provided a means for that by purchasing gems with real cash. Players need to make a choice.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Braile.3894" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > Trust me, you don't want that. Optional subscription games always end up crippling their base functionality in order to push players towards the subscrition.

> >

> > Full, obligatory subscription is practically always a better choice than an optional one. Asking for that is just asking for a system that mixes the worst parts of both cashshop and subscription systems together.

>

> Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money.

>

 

No we are not.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Braile.3894" said:

> > >

> > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money.

> > >

> >

> > wait what? What is it that you NEED to buy to make this game playable? I can't think of a SINGLE thing. You're confusing need with something else.

> Nah, it's you that are understanding the meaning of the word in too narrow sense. "need" can occupy a whole space between "must" and "want". If @"Braile.3894" thinks he needs some things to feel the game is playable, then he _needs_ those things. Even if you, personally, don't.

> Of course, that doesn't mean everyone else would share that need, and to the same degree.

 

No, I get what need means ... and you don't NEED anything from the GS to play this game. Need isn't about what you feel.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Sarrs.4831" said:

> Supply drops are a fantastic pseudo-subscription tbh.

 

Sneaking them in. Good catch.

 

I bet even some of these no sub players have bought the supply drops.....lol

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Braile.3894" said:

> > > >

> > > > Yeah I get that but we are already at a place where the game is unplayable if you don't spend a kitten ton of money.

> > > >

> > >

> > > wait what? What is it that you NEED to buy to make this game playable? I can't think of a SINGLE thing. You're confusing need with something else.

> > Nah, it's you that are understanding the meaning of the word in too narrow sense. "need" can occupy a whole space between "must" and "want". If @"Braile.3894" thinks he needs some things to feel the game is playable, then he _needs_ those things. Even if you, personally, don't.

> > Of course, that doesn't mean everyone else would share that need, and to the same degree.

>

> No, I get what need means ... and you don't NEED anything from the GS to play this game. Need isn't about what you feel.

Of course it is. Haven't you heard about Maslov's hierarchy of needs? You are trying to point at a certain level of said hierarchy and decide, that from that point up it's "legitimate" need, but below that arbitrary point it doesn't count for some reason.

But if you want to be that strict, then there is absolutely nothing you need. You don't even need to breathe. Not unless you want to continue living, but technically you don't _need_ to do that either.

 

[Obtena.7952]

No it's not ... what is needed is not subjective. If you can play the game without items from the GS, they aren't needed and since people have done and still do that ... then you know they aren't needed.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> No it's not ... what is needed is not subjective.

Did you actually check the term i have used, or know what it means? Because somehow I don't believe that.

 

 

 

[Braile.3894]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> No it's not ... what is needed is not subjective. If you can play the game without items from the GS, they aren't needed and since people have done and still do that ... then you know they aren't needed.

 

By your thinking you never need to buy pof because you can just play core with restrictions.

 

I stopped playing on characters with less bag space a while ago because it was a shore till anet introduced unidentified gear to all of Tyria.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Braile.3894" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > No it's not ... what is needed is not subjective. If you can play the game without items from the GS, they aren't needed and since people have done and still do that ... then you know they aren't needed.

>

> By your thinking you never need to buy pof because you can just play core with restrictions.

>

> I stopped playing on characters with less bag space a while ago because it was a shore till anet introduced unidentified gear to all of Tyria.

 

That's not my thinking at all. You just don't need anything from the GS to play this game, PERIOD.

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Braile.3894" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > No it's not ... what is needed is not subjective. If you can play the game without items from the GS, they aren't needed and since people have done and still do that ... then you know they aren't needed.

> >

> > By your thinking you never need to buy pof because you can just play core with restrictions.

> >

> > I stopped playing on characters with less bag space a while ago because it was a shore till anet introduced unidentified gear to all of Tyria.

>

> That's not my thinking at all. You just don't need anything from the GS to play this game, PERIOD.

You don;t need PoF to play this game either. You don't even need HoT.

 

[Seera.5916]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Braile.3894" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > No it's not ... what is needed is not subjective. If you can play the game without items from the GS, they aren't needed and since people have done and still do that ... then you know they aren't needed.

> >

> > By your thinking you never need to buy pof because you can just play core with restrictions.

> >

> > I stopped playing on characters with less bag space a while ago because it was a shore till anet introduced unidentified gear to all of Tyria.

>

> That's not my thinking at all. You just don't need anything from the GS to play this game, PERIOD.

>

>

 

You might not need some optional stuff to play the game. However, some people might need some convenience items in order for the game to be fun for them.

 

And I think that's what Braile is referring to. And what people mean when they start listing off QoL items on a list of things they need.

[Tukaram.8256]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Tukaram.8256" said:

> > > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > Anet already implemented an optional subscription system, but they never made it clear that they do have such a system. The supply drops are basically subscriptions. They want to release an episode around every 2 months in LW5. If they are successful, supply drops will end up costing about as much as a subscription per month. Do the math and you'll see.

> >

> > I read about the drops, and did not see anything I really wanted...nothing worth paying money for, anyway.

>

> If you buy it at the start, the mount licenses and unlocks are worth more than the price you normally pay for it. However, that would require you actually caring about mount skins. I'd argue a majority of people cares about those skins, given that virtually every player you see has a bunch of them. It's just good value, as it should be.

 

I am obviously not the target demographic. I could not care less about skins. If Arenanet can pay for the game by selling skins - more power to them! I have used gems to add 1 slot to my bank, and bought a PoF prep pack (boosted character, bag expansion, permanent harvest tools etc). I have no problem with them selling any convenience items, and it keeps us from having a subscription fee. I see that as a win-win.

 

There is nothing in the gem store that I need, and very little that I want. But, I am glad they make money on the gem store. :)

[Dante.1508]

No this is one of the reasons i quit ESO.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Seera.5916" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Braile.3894" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > No it's not ... what is needed is not subjective. If you can play the game without items from the GS, they aren't needed and since people have done and still do that ... then you know they aren't needed.

> > >

> > > By your thinking you never need to buy pof because you can just play core with restrictions.

> > >

> > > I stopped playing on characters with less bag space a while ago because it was a shore till anet introduced unidentified gear to all of Tyria.

> >

> > That's not my thinking at all. You just don't need anything from the GS to play this game, PERIOD.

> >

> >

>

> You might not need some optional stuff to play the game. However, some people might need some convenience items in order for the game to be fun for them.

>

> And I think that's what Braile is referring to. And what people mean when they start listing off QoL items on a list of things they need.

 

No, they might WANT some convenience items in order for the game to be fun with them. I get what he means; i'm not the one that needs to be corrected here.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Braile.3894" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > No it's not ... what is needed is not subjective. If you can play the game without items from the GS, they aren't needed and since people have done and still do that ... then you know they aren't needed.

> > >

> > > By your thinking you never need to buy pof because you can just play core with restrictions.

> > >

> > > I stopped playing on characters with less bag space a while ago because it was a shore till anet introduced unidentified gear to all of Tyria.

> >

> > That's not my thinking at all. You just don't need anything from the GS to play this game, PERIOD.

> You don;t need PoF to play this game either. You don't even need HoT.

>

 

That's correct. If you don't want those parts of the game, don't buy them. That doesn't change the fact that items in the GS aren't needed to play the game. He didn't mean he needed them and you know that to. I guess you like making pedantic arguments as a pass time. Too bad you aren't on the right side of them.

[Seera.5916]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Seera.5916" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Braile.3894" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > No it's not ... what is needed is not subjective. If you can play the game without items from the GS, they aren't needed and since people have done and still do that ... then you know they aren't needed.

> > > >

> > > > By your thinking you never need to buy pof because you can just play core with restrictions.

> > > >

> > > > I stopped playing on characters with less bag space a while ago because it was a shore till anet introduced unidentified gear to all of Tyria.

> > >

> > > That's not my thinking at all. You just don't need anything from the GS to play this game, PERIOD.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > You might not need some optional stuff to play the game. However, some people might need some convenience items in order for the game to be fun for them.

> >

> > And I think that's what Braile is referring to. And what people mean when they start listing off QoL items on a list of things they need.

>

> No, they might WANT some convenience items in order for the game to be fun with them. I get what he means; i'm not the one that needs to be corrected here.

 

Yes, you are.

 

You can need something in order for something to be fun.

 

One of the definitions of need as a verb per the online Merriam-Webster dictionary is:

 

" to be in want"

 

So by your own words Braile is just fine to use need as he is currently using it.

 

Let's also remember that we are discussing a game which is not critical to live. Anything about a game is not a need. You don't need to be able to play a game. So let's keep that in mind and not be so picky over word choice when the meaning of what the person is saying is coming across just fine.

[aceofbass.2163]

> @"Braile.3894" said:

> OK alot of people here seems to never needed to spend gems or buy a bag slot, fine.

> I think you people probably will be fine with the build templates as they are announced. So why are so shouting no for an OPTIONAL sub so people like me who need more build template space and other spaces if it won't change your gameplay at all?

>

> Stating once again only in a perfect world where anet won't kitten over their customers and change current stuff to make it worse without a sub.

 

Because it would make most stuff strictly tied to the sub. And if you don't want to commit to a sub/limited time convenience, you're screwed.

 

I suggest you enjoy this optional sub on other games you play them on. Leave gw2's monetization system be.

 

 

[crepuscular.9047]

so... OP is basically asking for BDO's subscription model?

[Tukaram.8256]

> @"aceofbass.2163" said:

> > @"Braile.3894" said:

> > OK alot of people here seems to never needed to spend gems or buy a bag slot, fine.

> > I think you people probably will be fine with the build templates as they are announced. So why are so shouting no for an OPTIONAL sub so people like me who need more build template space and other spaces if it won't change your gameplay at all?

> >

> > Stating once again only in a perfect world where anet won't kitten over their customers and change current stuff to make it worse without a sub.

>

> Because it would make most stuff strictly tied to the sub. And if you don't want to commit to a sub/limited time convenience, you're screwed.

>

> I suggest you enjoy this optional sub on other games you play them on. Leave gw2's monetization system be.

>

>

 

Yes, this.

The optional subscription tends to change the business model of the game. More and more changes come that make that "optional" subscription more of a requirement. I would say leave the gem store as is (which is most likely) or make it full on subscription (quite unlikely). So far the gem store is all shinies (totally unneeded) and some utilities, like bank & backpack tabs (unneeded but convenient).

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I would rather buy a new game every month than the same game every month.

The problem is not the lack of sub, the problem is that ANerf wants money without effort hence the let's cripple our own features policy.

If they went back to a new xpacs every 6 months instead of the halfbaked sagas they would get as much money.

[casualkenny.9817]

Players who dun own expansions:

1) can't buy and sell most things

2) 2 lame bag spaces

3) only core content

4) gear is harder to get

5) many stats are locked (tho berz is available)

6) no trinket maps, no access to many farm contents.

7) no mounts (GG)

 

Don't get me wrong, I see absolutely nothing wrong with their free-to-try model.

 

But my answer to opening a new can of worms is: No ty. And yes, I have purchased 3 supply drops, among various other QOL. And 'optional' subs are a major turnoff.

[kharmin.7683]

For the people who want things for "free" through an optional sub, why don't you simply budget your money now and pay $15-$20 per month for gems and then you would be able to purchase those things. It really is the same thing without forcing those of us who appreciate the non-sub model of GW2 who would also like to buy items from the gem store but are content with playing the game and converting gold -> gems or paying cash for gems on an as-needed basis.

[Tukaram.8256]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> I would rather buy a new game every month than the same game every month.

> The problem is not the lack of sub, the problem is that ANerf wants money without effort hence the let's cripple our own features policy.

> If they went back to a new xpacs every 6 months instead of the halfbaked sagas they would get as much money.

 

There have been 2 expansion is 7 years... "back to" every 6 months? Not Guild Wars. :)

[zealex.9410]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Braile.3894" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > No it's not ... what is needed is not subjective. If you can play the game without items from the GS, they aren't needed and since people have done and still do that ... then you know they aren't needed.

> >

> > By your thinking you never need to buy pof because you can just play core with restrictions.

> >

> > I stopped playing on characters with less bag space a while ago because it was a shore till anet introduced unidentified gear to all of Tyria.

>

> That's not my thinking at all. You just don't need anything from the GS to play this game, PERIOD.

>

>

 

Playing the game and makimg money through metas became viable for me (viable as in fun) after i bought bag slots and salvageomatics. Before that it was a chore and i couldnt stand it for more than an hour a day.