Offair.2563 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 > @"slpr.2647" said: > wow, bummer. i got a key as a drop in the Lab, opened that one chest, got a scrap, AND a ticket! so i bought the new GS :) That's because you did not push your luck like key buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 > @"Forty Keks.9620" said: > > @"Fellwitch.4536" said: > > To be more specific, I bought 2800 Gems. > > Bought the glider & backpack combo for 700 (NO COMPLAINTS HERE I GOT WHAT I WANTED) > > > > Then bought 21 keys for 2100 Gems. > > > > After seeing the splash announcement on the Black Market screen this morning, that we could get new Halloween-skinned items for Black Lion Claim Tickets, I thought "Hey, I will put in some money and support the developers and keep the game going, and get a nice skin while I am at it." > > > > Do you know how many Black Lion Claim Tickets I got? > > > > 0 > > > > Do you know how many Black Lion scrap things I got? > > > > 6-7. I already had two I believe, thus bringing my total to 9. > > > > How many scrap items = one Black Lion Claim Ticket? 10. > > > > So basically, 21 bucks down the drain, didn't get a single good item. > > > > I can understand trying to make money off of this stuff, but frankly, I got pretty scr3w3d on this deal. > > I had absolutely NO problem spending the money in the first place, but I guess my assumption I would actually get one of those weapon skins was completely in la-la-land. > > > > Lesson learned. How likely am I going to be in the future to spend money and buy gems? > > > > # **0** # > > > > > > that's what happens when you trust a company owned by the chinese to not milk you for cash. I get censored for telling someone their post is not well thought out but this kind of overt racism is allowed to stand on the forums. The mods here are playing favorites big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arden.7480 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > This just in: if you gamble, you might not win! :open_mouth: How is that POSSIBLE?! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > > > If thrill and anticipation is all the gamble boxes are about, then ecto gambling ought to provide that. If it doesn't, and I can believe it doesn't for a lot of folks, then the payoff is what drives the thrill. The payoff is _certainly_ what drives most of the revenue gain, not the thrill. > > > > > > Don't believe me? Ask yourself this. Would Las Vegas still be a gambling destination if it was just about providing a thrill, with no payoff? > > > > You do realise entertainment parks are that right? > > Trill without the payout. > > Sure, if people just want thrills, they go to Six Flags or Disney. If they want to gamble on a payoff, they go to Las Vegas (or Atlantic City, or wherever). Those destinations would have to retool a lot to become just amusement parks. > Sure they would have to change a lot. But i'm sure lots of people would still go to vegas if all money was inherently lost. You are ignoring the fact that the potential payoff is part of the trill though. > > Personally i believe that using psychological tricks in marketing is not bad in any way. > > Where do you draw the line for what psychological tricks are allowed? or do you consider smiling waiters also as bad? > > Where do I draw the line? When the psychology is part of a business plan that benefits both the company and the customer, I think that's great. When the psychology benefits the business to the detriment of the customer, I think that's predatory and exploitative. > > Waiters are pleasant so that the diners will have a good experience. A good experience makes it more likely the diners will come back again instead of going to the competition's restaurant. That benefits the business. The customers benefit because they enjoy their meal more. The price they pay for that meal may be higher than the joint down the street, but the good customer service doesn't disguise that the prices are higher. The prices are right there on the menu. > > Gamble boxes are _designed_ to disguise the average price a customer will end up paying to get an item. This is done to trick people into paying a lot more for things than they would pay if the prices were listed up front. Do you remember Eve Online and Monoclegate? The studio sold a monocle for use in-game at a price point at or around $70. There was a huge furor about the high price. Developers use gamble boxes to get similar revenue from items without setting a high price which will draw player anger. With gamble boxes, some customers benefit by getting the item they want with one or a few keys. Others will spend way more and get nothing. > So all practices who make the costumer feel better thats okay? Glad to know thats where you stand. :) > > And the point earlier was that people should start considering lootboxes only for the trill. If everyone realised this then they would only serve that purpose. > > Yeah, I got that the first time. It seems you either missed, or didn't like, my rebuttal. In different words, then. If the point of the boxes/keys is only to provide a thrill, then the prize would not be necessary. In gambling, the thrill is largely or completely related to the payoff. The payoff is part of the trill. But as people said before you should gamble with the intent that everything put in is lost. As people above pointed out. My point was never about how people handle gambling now. But how they should view it to not return with a bad feeling. I believe you are arguing against a straw man here though. I never said the payoff is not part of gambling. I said people should consider all the gold spent on a gamble lost. and doing so they achieve a much healthier relationship with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Udolpho.1209 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 There, there. /pats head It happens. I've been there. :/ Maybe try the weekly key farm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 The reason I'm fine with Black Lion Chests is the same reason I'm fine with scratch-off lottery tickets. I only ever buy an amount I'm comfortable with losing, and sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised by the result. The chests support development, but they also award statuettes, so that even if you don't win, you can casually work toward obtaining your shinies in a different way that has a fixed availibility. Another good thing about those chests is that they only award two things: Fashion and convenience. You can't really pay to win in this game so much as pay to have nice-looking pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batel.9206 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 My mom always said, "You get what you get and you don't throw a fit." You knew the risks of RNG (some may call it gambling) and accepted them; don't whine that you didn't get what you wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 > @"yann.1946" said: > > I believe you are arguing against a straw man here though. I never said the payoff is not part of gambling. I said people should consider all the gold spent on a gamble lost. and doing so they achieve a much healthier relationship with it. Fair enough. We agree that the consideration (prize) is inherently part of the deal. I also agree that an attitude of, "I'm just doing it for the anticipation of getting the gewgaw I want!" could be _healthier_ than one of, "I've got to have that gewgaw." The problem is that the lootbox business practice fails as a revenue driver if the business is not tricking the consumers who haven't taken that step. To me, encouraging people to adopt a healthier point of view about buying the things is just enabling the business to get away with the exploitation of others. Truly healthy advice would be, "Don't waste money on these things." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico.6873 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 > @"Fellwitch.4536" said: > > > 0 > > Do you know how many Black Lion scrap things I got? > > 6-7. I already had two I believe, thus bringing my total to 9. > > How many scrap items = one Black Lion Claim Ticket? 10. > > So basically, 21 bucks down the drain, didn't get a single good item. > > I can understand trying to make money off of this stuff, but frankly, I got pretty scr3w3d on this deal. > I had absolutely NO problem spending the money in the first place, but I guess my assumption I would actually get one of those weapon skins was completely in la-la-land. > > Lesson learned. How likely am I going to be in the future to spend money and buy gems? > > # **0** # > > You can buy scraps using black lion stattues https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Statuette The more you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Godrik.5841 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 > @"Fellwitch.4536" said: > To be more specific, I bought 2800 Gems. > Bought the glider & backpack combo for 700 (NO COMPLAINTS HERE I GOT WHAT I WANTED) > > Then bought 21 keys for 2100 Gems. > > After seeing the splash announcement on the Black Market screen this morning, that we could get new Halloween-skinned items for Black Lion Claim Tickets, I thought "Hey, I will put in some money and support the developers and keep the game going, and get a nice skin while I am at it." > > Do you know how many Black Lion Claim Tickets I got? > > 0 > > Do you know how many Black Lion scrap things I got? > > 6-7. I already had two I believe, thus bringing my total to 9. > > How many scrap items = one Black Lion Claim Ticket? 10. > > So basically, 21 bucks down the drain, didn't get a single good item. > > I can understand trying to make money off of this stuff, but frankly, I got pretty scr3w3d on this deal. > I had absolutely NO problem spending the money in the first place, but I guess my assumption I would actually get one of those weapon skins was completely in la-la-land. > > Lesson learned. How likely am I going to be in the future to spend money and buy gems? > > # **0** # > > Yeah the blc are crap. I used 75 keys and didnt get anything i wanted either. So shame on me. Yeah i will not support that EVER again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Sounds like a lot of people are learning that these are a terrible waste of money, that's not a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 simple: dont gamble if your restrict on budget, i buy keys only i had nothing to do with gems or i had bought some items i wanted then after still had some gems left. also if u arent a gold rich person them use spare gems to buy gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1508 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Since the Halloween event dropped BL chests are no longer worth getting thanks to those useless Evon bags.. I've stopped buying keys for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Keks.9620 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Forty Keks.9620" said: > > > @"Fellwitch.4536" said: > > > To be more specific, I bought 2800 Gems. > > > Bought the glider & backpack combo for 700 (NO COMPLAINTS HERE I GOT WHAT I WANTED) > > > > > > Then bought 21 keys for 2100 Gems. > > > > > > After seeing the splash announcement on the Black Market screen this morning, that we could get new Halloween-skinned items for Black Lion Claim Tickets, I thought "Hey, I will put in some money and support the developers and keep the game going, and get a nice skin while I am at it." > > > > > > Do you know how many Black Lion Claim Tickets I got? > > > > > > 0 > > > > > > Do you know how many Black Lion scrap things I got? > > > > > > 6-7. I already had two I believe, thus bringing my total to 9. > > > > > > How many scrap items = one Black Lion Claim Ticket? 10. > > > > > > So basically, 21 bucks down the drain, didn't get a single good item. > > > > > > I can understand trying to make money off of this stuff, but frankly, I got pretty scr3w3d on this deal. > > > I had absolutely NO problem spending the money in the first place, but I guess my assumption I would actually get one of those weapon skins was completely in la-la-land. > > > > > > Lesson learned. How likely am I going to be in the future to spend money and buy gems? > > > > > > # **0** # > > > > > > > > > > that's what happens when you trust a company owned by the chinese to not milk you for cash. > > I get censored for telling someone their post is not well thought out but this kind of overt racism is allowed to stand on the forums. > The mods here are playing favorites big time. maybe the mods realize (unlike yourself) that the word "chinese" is not racist. i get censored more for my sarcastic comments than i do saying anything about their questionable monetization tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Forty Keks.9620" said: > > > @"Fellwitch.4536" said: > > > To be more specific, I bought 2800 Gems. > > > Bought the glider & backpack combo for 700 (NO COMPLAINTS HERE I GOT WHAT I WANTED) > > > > > > Then bought 21 keys for 2100 Gems. > > > > > > After seeing the splash announcement on the Black Market screen this morning, that we could get new Halloween-skinned items for Black Lion Claim Tickets, I thought "Hey, I will put in some money and support the developers and keep the game going, and get a nice skin while I am at it." > > > > > > Do you know how many Black Lion Claim Tickets I got? > > > > > > 0 > > > > > > Do you know how many Black Lion scrap things I got? > > > > > > 6-7. I already had two I believe, thus bringing my total to 9. > > > > > > How many scrap items = one Black Lion Claim Ticket? 10. > > > > > > So basically, 21 bucks down the drain, didn't get a single good item. > > > > > > I can understand trying to make money off of this stuff, but frankly, I got pretty scr3w3d on this deal. > > > I had absolutely NO problem spending the money in the first place, but I guess my assumption I would actually get one of those weapon skins was completely in la-la-land. > > > > > > Lesson learned. How likely am I going to be in the future to spend money and buy gems? > > > > > > # **0** # > > > > > > > > > > that's what happens when you trust a company owned by the chinese to not milk you for cash. > > I get censored for telling someone their post is not well thought out but this kind of overt racism is allowed to stand on the forums. > The mods here are playing favorites big time. Um ... did you report it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Stop enabling them to push gambling. Stop gambling your money away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Keks.9620 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Forty Keks.9620" said: > > > @"Fellwitch.4536" said: > > > To be more specific, I bought 2800 Gems. > > > Bought the glider & backpack combo for 700 (NO COMPLAINTS HERE I GOT WHAT I WANTED) > > > > > > Then bought 21 keys for 2100 Gems. > > > > > > After seeing the splash announcement on the Black Market screen this morning, that we could get new Halloween-skinned items for Black Lion Claim Tickets, I thought "Hey, I will put in some money and support the developers and keep the game going, and get a nice skin while I am at it." > > > > > > Do you know how many Black Lion Claim Tickets I got? > > > > > > 0 > > > > > > Do you know how many Black Lion scrap things I got? > > > > > > 6-7. I already had two I believe, thus bringing my total to 9. > > > > > > How many scrap items = one Black Lion Claim Ticket? 10. > > > > > > So basically, 21 bucks down the drain, didn't get a single good item. > > > > > > I can understand trying to make money off of this stuff, but frankly, I got pretty scr3w3d on this deal. > > > I had absolutely NO problem spending the money in the first place, but I guess my assumption I would actually get one of those weapon skins was completely in la-la-land. > > > > > > Lesson learned. How likely am I going to be in the future to spend money and buy gems? > > > > > > # **0** # > > > > > > > > > > that's what happens when you trust a company owned by the chinese to not milk you for cash. > > I get censored for telling someone their post is not well thought out but this kind of overt racism is allowed to stand on the forums. > The mods here are playing favorites big time. also GW2 isn't owned by the chinese. NCsoft is korean so cool your jets it's a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoSpyro.1780 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 Only another $14,979 to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Rein.6951 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 You know, I hate being an aXXhole with other people. But in this last decade of video game industry, I learned to not pity Lootbox gamblers. I hope you learned you lesson. The house always wins and you're the sucker that always runs out of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Nik.2518 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 > @"yann.1946" said: > > @"Ol Nik.2518" said: > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > You do realise entertainment parks are that right? > > > Trill without the payout. > > > > Have entertainment parks replaced casinos? > No, that's also not the point. > Just pointing out that people trillseek without the payout. Would you agree that a significant number of people who open BLCs expect payoff? Or would you prefer to say that people open BLCs to be amused by their contents and do not expect any items of value (subjective value, which may or may not be cost in gold)? > > > Personally i believe that using psychological tricks in marketing is not bad in any way. > > > Where do you draw the line for what psychological tricks are allowed? or do you consider smiling waiters also as bad? > > > > This is a straw man argument. Check your local laws and regulations to see if they agree with you. I would suggest starting with advertising, contract, and consumer protection laws. > > > As far as I know my local laws do agree with me. What is not allowed though is lying(false advertisement etc.) > > Gambling is regulated, but because of the addictive properties. And situations where gambling is used as advertisement are almost never regulated. (kinder surprise, mtg cards etc.) > I do not know where you live, but I would assume that your jurisdiction has laws protecting against fraud, deceptive business practices, misleading advertising, witness tampering, confessions and testimonies under duress, and so on. You might also have guaranteed right to cancel a contract within a specific time and mandatory disclosures. There are probably plenty of other laws and regulations drawing hard lines for the use of 'psychological tricks'. Psychology can be a very dangerous and harmful instrument, especially since a good marketing team will never let consumers think that they are being tricked. > > > And the point earlier was that people should start considering lootboxes only for the trill. If everyone realised this then they would only serve that purpose. > > > > People also should avoid impulsive buys, should plan their budgets, and should start saving for retirement early. There are plenty of other things people should but rarely do. > > This I absolutely agree with. People will never completely start acting rationaly. > > But what I have the most problems with though is that this discussion is do polarising that topics like informing the population about the risks almost never get brought up. > While for smoking this is already standard practice. > > People are most of the time either for or against it completely. And no real solutions get sought. It took several decades for the anti-smoking campaign to become as strong and intrusive as it is now. Twenty-thirty years ago debates around smoking and especially second-hand smoke were even more heated than today's discussions about loot boxes and microtransactions. In many ways, the current situation with the gaming industry is very similar to the tobacco industry back then. They use exactly the same strategy of misleading population and avoiding responsibility. As for the solutions, changing people's attitudes toward loot boxes by telling them that they should open them just for thrill is not going to work. Loot boxes' entire mechanics is based on the inclusion of items of subjective value and humans' poor ability to understand and deal with probabilities in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Bandit.3786 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 It's a gamble, we all know that. That is also why, by law, everyone ingame is 18+ due to the gamble proportion with the Black Lion Keys. /sarcasm off yes Anet does break quite a few gambling laws. But so does every other game developer out there. Fact: Black Lion Keys is gambling Fact: Most western country's gamble laws prevent selling to minors Fact: The game does NOT do an age check on the sales of Black Lion Keys. Welcome to the gaming world, this illegal behavior is common practise under Game Developing Companies. (Check the news on the investigations into loot boxes in the EU... matter of time before Anet comes to their radar) Disclaimer: I merely state facts. I have no problem with the element itself in the game. I am 18+ and fully realize it's a gamble fact if I buy keys of the trading post. I do however believe that it should be heavily punished that this can be done to Minors in GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 2019 and people still haven't figured out gambling on black lion chests rarely works out if you buy a few chests, if you're trying to make money off it you need to buy an extreme amount of them. 2 slots already spoken for and rarely anything good out of the seasonal drop, 2 common drops which is mostly junk, and then a chance(not even a guarantee) you might roll a 5th slot for a chance to roll for an uncommon, rare, or super you'll never see these drops. If you really just want a skin buy it off the TP instead if you can. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29364/results-of-opening-1000-black-lion-chests Bonus for current event Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzureTerra.1642 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 I buy keys periodically, don't often get a great haul but sometime i do. Its called gambling and im fine with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kythan Myr.4719 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 I wonder if Anet would make more money if more players felt more rewarded for using RNG items? If players were happier might they not stay, and be more willing to spend more money? I've been playing a mobile game with RNG items and it's doing really well financially. The main dev regularly communicates open and honestly with the community and they are constantly rewarding their players with items that you normally grind for to make the weapon crafting process a little less painful. I have no problem spending $20 on this game every few months because I know I will get something good out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghetx.1752 Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 There are 52 weeks in one year. You could do step 1 of personal story every week for a whole year and save keys for Halloween or other events.It literally takes you 20 minutes to level up and finish story with food buffs/guild buff/fireworks. No money wasted,no time wasted.Anyone who plays mmo on the first place should have 20 minutes of spare time once a week at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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