TwoGhosts.6790 Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > Count the amount of characters you have, multiply by 500 gems and you have the cost for an account wide unlock. > > > > What you are actually demanding is an option which scales with the amount of characters on your account and/or a discount. > > > > There was a discount on equipment templates already, should have bought then. It is unlikely that a scalable option is added since that option would either have to be insanely expensive to accommodate the potential maximum amount of characters per account, or insanely cheap. > > Since the maximum number of character slots is currently 70 they'd have to account for people that have that many slots...wonder if the OP would actually be willing to pay 35000 gems for an account wide equipment slot(he said he would, but after seeing the price I wonder)? The price of shared inventory slots do not scale in that way. What's your point? I would also being willing pay for a good templates system. Unfortunately that's not what we have. Also, the cost of opening max slots per character is absurdly expensive. Also, the max slots available is absurdly restrictive, even if you pay the absurd price. It's absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > Count the amount of characters you have, multiply by 500 gems and you have the cost for an account wide unlock. > > > > > > What you are actually demanding is an option which scales with the amount of characters on your account and/or a discount. > > > > > > There was a discount on equipment templates already, should have bought then. It is unlikely that a scalable option is added since that option would either have to be insanely expensive to accommodate the potential maximum amount of characters per account, or insanely cheap. > > > > Since the maximum number of character slots is currently 70 they'd have to account for people that have that many slots...wonder if the OP would actually be willing to pay 35000 gems for an account wide equipment slot(he said he would, but after seeing the price I wonder)? > > The price of shared inventory slots do not scale in that way. What's your point? > > I would also being willing pay for a good templates system. Unfortunately that's not what we have. > > Also, the cost of opening max slots per character is absurdly expensive. Also, the max slots available is absurdly restrictive, even if you pay the absurd price. > > It's absurd. My point being is that for them to offer account bound equipment slots they would have to price them just that way to equate the income they can conceivably receive from selling them per character as is the case now. Sure they could potentially offer a sliding scale based on how many characters you have, but I can see all sorts of issues with that for those that create and delete characters for key runs and other things. There are players that have max character slots, but they bought a lot of the extra ones during the annual anniversary sale, the same time a lot of people buy things like keys in bulk or other things without limits on how many you can purchase. We can only hope they increase the max number of characters to 100 with the release of the 3rd expansion, for those that feel the need to have that many characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 > @"aaron.7850" said: > ...if it unlocked for the account, not per character. > Please Arenanet, let me support you, but make it fair. You know there's a lot of people pretending to speak for the developers in this thread as if the current pricing model is good and fair and somehow a positive for Arenanet. It isn't in my case. Before this game I played a lot of Star Wars the Old Republic. A game who's business model ultimately alienated me from the fun. But SWTOR had a few similar account unlocks on their cash shop and there were always two prices. 1 at regular price and another at usually 2.5 times that price for an account-wide unlock. Not only did this allow people to purchase ala carte, the account-wide unlocks became complete no-brainer purchases to dedicated players with lots of character slots... you know the dedicated players. The same group of players Arenanet alienated with it's current pricing scheme. I used to always default to an account unlock option in SWTOR. I never hesitated. They had value to me. But GW2, a game a enjoy a LOT more and have spent far more money on, has not seen a dime from me for equipmentbuildtemplateloadoutswhatevers. While I think your original request lowballs the value, an account wide unlock offering for a reasonable premium would have got Arenanet money from me on this. The current pricing left a bad taste in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoGhosts.6790 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > Count the amount of characters you have, multiply by 500 gems and you have the cost for an account wide unlock. > > > > > > > > What you are actually demanding is an option which scales with the amount of characters on your account and/or a discount. > > > > > > > > There was a discount on equipment templates already, should have bought then. It is unlikely that a scalable option is added since that option would either have to be insanely expensive to accommodate the potential maximum amount of characters per account, or insanely cheap. > > > > > > Since the maximum number of character slots is currently 70 they'd have to account for people that have that many slots...wonder if the OP would actually be willing to pay 35000 gems for an account wide equipment slot(he said he would, but after seeing the price I wonder)? > > > > The price of shared inventory slots do not scale in that way. What's your point? > > > > I would also being willing pay for a good templates system. Unfortunately that's not what we have. > > > > Also, the cost of opening max slots per character is absurdly expensive. Also, the max slots available is absurdly restrictive, even if you pay the absurd price. > > > > It's absurd. > > My point being is that for them to offer account bound equipment slots they would have to price them just that way to equate the income they can conceivably receive from selling them per character as is the case now. Sure they could potentially offer a sliding scale based on how many characters you have, but I can see all sorts of issues with that for those that create and delete characters for key runs and other things. > > There are players that have max character slots, but they bought a lot of the extra ones during the annual anniversary sale, the same time a lot of people buy things like keys in bulk or other things without limits on how many you can purchase. We can only hope they increase the max number of characters to 100 with the release of the 3rd expansion, for those that feel the need to have that many characters. And you missed my point. The price of account-wide shared *inventory* slots does not scale. It makes no difference if you have 5 or 70 characters, the price is the same. It seems Anet has no problem with this. There is, therefore, a precedence for this that they could have followed with their templates bullsheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > Count the amount of characters you have, multiply by 500 gems and you have the cost for an account wide unlock. > > > > > > > > > > What you are actually demanding is an option which scales with the amount of characters on your account and/or a discount. > > > > > > > > > > There was a discount on equipment templates already, should have bought then. It is unlikely that a scalable option is added since that option would either have to be insanely expensive to accommodate the potential maximum amount of characters per account, or insanely cheap. > > > > > > > > Since the maximum number of character slots is currently 70 they'd have to account for people that have that many slots...wonder if the OP would actually be willing to pay 35000 gems for an account wide equipment slot(he said he would, but after seeing the price I wonder)? > > > > > > The price of shared inventory slots do not scale in that way. What's your point? > > > > > > I would also being willing pay for a good templates system. Unfortunately that's not what we have. > > > > > > Also, the cost of opening max slots per character is absurdly expensive. Also, the max slots available is absurdly restrictive, even if you pay the absurd price. > > > > > > It's absurd. > > > > My point being is that for them to offer account bound equipment slots they would have to price them just that way to equate the income they can conceivably receive from selling them per character as is the case now. Sure they could potentially offer a sliding scale based on how many characters you have, but I can see all sorts of issues with that for those that create and delete characters for key runs and other things. > > > > There are players that have max character slots, but they bought a lot of the extra ones during the annual anniversary sale, the same time a lot of people buy things like keys in bulk or other things without limits on how many you can purchase. We can only hope they increase the max number of characters to 100 with the release of the 3rd expansion, for those that feel the need to have that many characters. > > And you missed my point. > > The price of account-wide shared *inventory* slots does not scale. It makes no difference if you have 5 or 70 characters, the price is the same. It seems Anet has no problem with this. There is, therefore, a precedence for this that they could have followed with their templates bullsheet. Given how equip templates function a lot more similar to bag slots, given they store items, guess what precedent character bag slots set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoGhosts.6790 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > Count the amount of characters you have, multiply by 500 gems and you have the cost for an account wide unlock. > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are actually demanding is an option which scales with the amount of characters on your account and/or a discount. > > > > > > > > > > > > There was a discount on equipment templates already, should have bought then. It is unlikely that a scalable option is added since that option would either have to be insanely expensive to accommodate the potential maximum amount of characters per account, or insanely cheap. > > > > > > > > > > Since the maximum number of character slots is currently 70 they'd have to account for people that have that many slots...wonder if the OP would actually be willing to pay 35000 gems for an account wide equipment slot(he said he would, but after seeing the price I wonder)? > > > > > > > > The price of shared inventory slots do not scale in that way. What's your point? > > > > > > > > I would also being willing pay for a good templates system. Unfortunately that's not what we have. > > > > > > > > Also, the cost of opening max slots per character is absurdly expensive. Also, the max slots available is absurdly restrictive, even if you pay the absurd price. > > > > > > > > It's absurd. > > > > > > My point being is that for them to offer account bound equipment slots they would have to price them just that way to equate the income they can conceivably receive from selling them per character as is the case now. Sure they could potentially offer a sliding scale based on how many characters you have, but I can see all sorts of issues with that for those that create and delete characters for key runs and other things. > > > > > > There are players that have max character slots, but they bought a lot of the extra ones during the annual anniversary sale, the same time a lot of people buy things like keys in bulk or other things without limits on how many you can purchase. We can only hope they increase the max number of characters to 100 with the release of the 3rd expansion, for those that feel the need to have that many characters. > > > > And you missed my point. > > > > The price of account-wide shared *inventory* slots does not scale. It makes no difference if you have 5 or 70 characters, the price is the same. It seems Anet has no problem with this. There is, therefore, a precedence for this that they could have followed with their templates bullsheet. > > Given how equip templates function a lot more similar to bag slots, given they store items, guess what precedent character bag slots set? Potato potato. They could have made them account wide. They should have. I would have bought in. They didn't. I won't spend a penny on this garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 I think a lot of the problems with the templates come from the fact that it was split into three monetized pieces that came at once. I think they shouldn't have added equipment templates. They should have left all unequipped gear in people's bags like before but the equipment loadout should have been part of the build template. So your build would be your skills, traits and equipment (which is what a build is). Then a little later on they could have added equipment storage on a character by character basis. Each storage could unlock, let's say, 20 slots that could only store Sigils, Runes and bound equipment and people would have been falling over themselves thanking ArenaNet for giving them a solution they would want. Similarly if they introduced the account build storage later on people would have been happier to pay for it. Anyway, that's all irrelevant now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > Count the amount of characters you have, multiply by 500 gems and you have the cost for an account wide unlock. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are actually demanding is an option which scales with the amount of characters on your account and/or a discount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was a discount on equipment templates already, should have bought then. It is unlikely that a scalable option is added since that option would either have to be insanely expensive to accommodate the potential maximum amount of characters per account, or insanely cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the maximum number of character slots is currently 70 they'd have to account for people that have that many slots...wonder if the OP would actually be willing to pay 35000 gems for an account wide equipment slot(he said he would, but after seeing the price I wonder)? > > > > > > > > > > The price of shared inventory slots do not scale in that way. What's your point? > > > > > > > > > > I would also being willing pay for a good templates system. Unfortunately that's not what we have. > > > > > > > > > > Also, the cost of opening max slots per character is absurdly expensive. Also, the max slots available is absurdly restrictive, even if you pay the absurd price. > > > > > > > > > > It's absurd. > > > > > > > > My point being is that for them to offer account bound equipment slots they would have to price them just that way to equate the income they can conceivably receive from selling them per character as is the case now. Sure they could potentially offer a sliding scale based on how many characters you have, but I can see all sorts of issues with that for those that create and delete characters for key runs and other things. > > > > > > > > There are players that have max character slots, but they bought a lot of the extra ones during the annual anniversary sale, the same time a lot of people buy things like keys in bulk or other things without limits on how many you can purchase. We can only hope they increase the max number of characters to 100 with the release of the 3rd expansion, for those that feel the need to have that many characters. > > > > > > And you missed my point. > > > > > > The price of account-wide shared *inventory* slots does not scale. It makes no difference if you have 5 or 70 characters, the price is the same. It seems Anet has no problem with this. There is, therefore, a precedence for this that they could have followed with their templates bullsheet. > > > > Given how equip templates function a lot more similar to bag slots, given they store items, guess what precedent character bag slots set? > > Potato potato. > They could have made them account wide. > They should have. > I would have bought in. > They didn't. > I won't spend a penny on this garbage. > The problem with your argument is that it's not potato, potatoe and Cyninja.2954 is absolutely correct. Shared inventory slots are classified differently from Equipment slots; as stated an Equipment slot is similar in function to a Bag slot in that it allows you to hold the different pieces of equipment in one single location, there fore it would have to be priced the same as the sell bag slots, which is per character. You also have the right not to purchase them, but I'll bet their metrics show them that many did, those dedicated enough to want to have enough equipment slots for characters that need more than the two provided would've done so. Just maybe you and I aren't the target audience for those particular items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > ... but I'll bet their metrics show them that many did, those dedicated enough to want to have enough equipment slots for characters that need more than the two provided would've done so. Yes, and that led to a dramatic increase in revenue in 4th quarter 2019, when the system was introduced. Oh, wait... revenue actually fell dramatically in 4Q19. Now, maybe the load-out system actually saved the game, but on the face of it, it doesn't look like the system was widely accepted by the target market. Why? Psychology. ANet introduced a high-priced system that is dramatically inferior to that provided by the free add-on they tolerated for years. As Mindcircus said, that left a bad taste in the mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoGhosts.6790 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > Count the amount of characters you have, multiply by 500 gems and you have the cost for an account wide unlock. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are actually demanding is an option which scales with the amount of characters on your account and/or a discount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was a discount on equipment templates already, should have bought then. It is unlikely that a scalable option is added since that option would either have to be insanely expensive to accommodate the potential maximum amount of characters per account, or insanely cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the maximum number of character slots is currently 70 they'd have to account for people that have that many slots...wonder if the OP would actually be willing to pay 35000 gems for an account wide equipment slot(he said he would, but after seeing the price I wonder)? > > > > > > > > > > > > The price of shared inventory slots do not scale in that way. What's your point? > > > > > > > > > > > > I would also being willing pay for a good templates system. Unfortunately that's not what we have. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, the cost of opening max slots per character is absurdly expensive. Also, the max slots available is absurdly restrictive, even if you pay the absurd price. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > My point being is that for them to offer account bound equipment slots they would have to price them just that way to equate the income they can conceivably receive from selling them per character as is the case now. Sure they could potentially offer a sliding scale based on how many characters you have, but I can see all sorts of issues with that for those that create and delete characters for key runs and other things. > > > > > > > > > > There are players that have max character slots, but they bought a lot of the extra ones during the annual anniversary sale, the same time a lot of people buy things like keys in bulk or other things without limits on how many you can purchase. We can only hope they increase the max number of characters to 100 with the release of the 3rd expansion, for those that feel the need to have that many characters. > > > > > > > > And you missed my point. > > > > > > > > The price of account-wide shared *inventory* slots does not scale. It makes no difference if you have 5 or 70 characters, the price is the same. It seems Anet has no problem with this. There is, therefore, a precedence for this that they could have followed with their templates bullsheet. > > > > > > Given how equip templates function a lot more similar to bag slots, given they store items, guess what precedent character bag slots set? > > > > Potato potato. > > They could have made them account wide. > > They should have. > > I would have bought in. > > They didn't. > > I won't spend a penny on this garbage. > > > > The problem with your argument is that it's not potato, potatoe and Cyninja.2954 is absolutely correct. Shared inventory slots are classified differently from Equipment slots; as stated an Equipment slot is similar in function to a Bag slot in that it allows you to hold the different pieces of equipment in one single location, there fore it would have to be priced the same as the sell bag slots, which is per character. You also have the right not to purchase them, but I'll bet their metrics show them that many did, those dedicated enough to want to have enough equipment slots for characters that need more than the two provided would've done so. Just maybe you and I aren't the target audience for those particular items. And the problem with the decision that they took with their design is that it's not (therefore) a template system, it's a loadout system. If I needed a character *storage* solution, one of those (as you say) already exists in the gem store, it's called a Bag Slot Expansion. What I wanted, however, was a really, really good templates solution. Why? Because I was used to using one already. They could have made it an account-wide system, and they could have priced it any way they wanted to. But it appears they they chose to base their design on the premise of monetisation, far beyond fun or function. So now, the system we have is *not* a template system. It is a clunky, counter-intuitive, frustrating pita. For those of us who had become accustomed to the brilliant Arc Templates, Anet's system is a bloated and (even when maxed) hugely restrictive and massively overpriced alternative. By direct comparison with Arc Templates, the Anet 'solution' it is an off-the-charts QoL *reduction*. GG. And again, for the record, I would have gladly paid for a system that worked similarly to Arc Templates. The functionality of Arc made end-game exploration so accessible, creative and fun that I'd have paid 5K-10K gems without a problem. But this system is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > ... but I'll bet their metrics show them that many did, those dedicated enough to want to have enough equipment slots for characters that need more than the two provided would've done so. > > Yes, and that led to a dramatic increase in revenue in 4th quarter 2019, when the system was introduced. Oh, wait... revenue actually fell dramatically in 4Q19. Now, maybe the load-out system actually saved the game, but on the face of it, it doesn't look like the system was widely accepted by the target market. Why? Psychology. ANet introduced a high-priced system that is dramatically inferior to that provided by the free add-on they tolerated for years. As Mindcircus said, that left a bad taste in the mouth. > > That is true. First off, I don't believe myself that the equipment template system met expected revenue. There a numerous factors which speak for this: - steep decline in revenue in the last quarters - a major overhaul of the system shortly after it was introduced - a huge increase in monetization of other items following the weak quarters So in a way, players are getting that which they are paying, or not paying for. The amount of new skins, rebates, new gem store items is at an all time high. Most cosmetic in nature. Not a day/week goes by which does not introduce a "free" item in the store to draw players attention to it with new items for purchase. There is also a high probability that the necessity and desire for a build and equipment template system was wildly overestimated by the developers. Recent threads on the subject where players made mention of how many actually use these features show that, at least among the forum participating player pool, many simply do not make use of templates. Potentially the target audience was incorrectly chosen. > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > @"TwoGhosts.6790" said: > > > > > > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > Count the amount of characters you have, multiply by 500 gems and you have the cost for an account wide unlock. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What you are actually demanding is an option which scales with the amount of characters on your account and/or a discount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There was a discount on equipment templates already, should have bought then. It is unlikely that a scalable option is added since that option would either have to be insanely expensive to accommodate the potential maximum amount of characters per account, or insanely cheap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since the maximum number of character slots is currently 70 they'd have to account for people that have that many slots...wonder if the OP would actually be willing to pay 35000 gems for an account wide equipment slot(he said he would, but after seeing the price I wonder)? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The price of shared inventory slots do not scale in that way. What's your point? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would also being willing pay for a good templates system. Unfortunately that's not what we have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, the cost of opening max slots per character is absurdly expensive. Also, the max slots available is absurdly restrictive, even if you pay the absurd price. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's absurd. > > > > > > > > > > > > My point being is that for them to offer account bound equipment slots they would have to price them just that way to equate the income they can conceivably receive from selling them per character as is the case now. Sure they could potentially offer a sliding scale based on how many characters you have, but I can see all sorts of issues with that for those that create and delete characters for key runs and other things. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are players that have max character slots, but they bought a lot of the extra ones during the annual anniversary sale, the same time a lot of people buy things like keys in bulk or other things without limits on how many you can purchase. We can only hope they increase the max number of characters to 100 with the release of the 3rd expansion, for those that feel the need to have that many characters. > > > > > > > > > > And you missed my point. > > > > > > > > > > The price of account-wide shared *inventory* slots does not scale. It makes no difference if you have 5 or 70 characters, the price is the same. It seems Anet has no problem with this. There is, therefore, a precedence for this that they could have followed with their templates bullsheet. > > > > > > > > Given how equip templates function a lot more similar to bag slots, given they store items, guess what precedent character bag slots set? > > > > > > Potato potato. > > > They could have made them account wide. > > > They should have. > > > I would have bought in. > > > They didn't. > > > I won't spend a penny on this garbage. > > > > > > > The problem with your argument is that it's not potato, potatoe and Cyninja.2954 is absolutely correct. Shared inventory slots are classified differently from Equipment slots; as stated an Equipment slot is similar in function to a Bag slot in that it allows you to hold the different pieces of equipment in one single location, there fore it would have to be priced the same as the sell bag slots, which is per character. You also have the right not to purchase them, but I'll bet their metrics show them that many did, those dedicated enough to want to have enough equipment slots for characters that need more than the two provided would've done so. Just maybe you and I aren't the target audience for those particular items. > > And the problem with the decision that they took with their design is that it's not (therefore) a template system, it's a loadout system. > If I needed a character *storage* solution, one of those (as you say) already exists in the gem store, it's called a Bag Slot Expansion. > What I wanted, however, was a really, really good templates solution. > Why? Because I was used to using one already. > They could have made it an account-wide system, and they could have priced it any way they wanted to. > But it appears they they chose to base their design on the premise of monetisation, far beyond fun or function. > So now, the system we have is *not* a template system. It is a clunky, counter-intuitive, frustrating pita. For those of us who had become accustomed to the brilliant Arc Templates, Anet's system is a bloated and (even when maxed) hugely restrictive and massively overpriced alternative. > By direct comparison with Arc Templates, the Anet 'solution' it is an off-the-charts QoL *reduction*. GG. > And again, for the record, I would have gladly paid for a system that worked similarly to Arc Templates. The functionality of Arc made end-game exploration so accessible, creative and fun that I'd have paid 5K-10K gems without a problem. > But this system is garbage. For the record: we do not know what or if you had payed for anything (not even you can know for sure). That is you assuming, just as players have been claiming they would love to pay for a build template system in the past. You are acting based on personal emotions (which is very clear from the way you approach this subject) which in turn are formed by both availability of a free template version before, and you not seeing any value in the current implementation of the in-game template system. That suggests you are at best just simply angry, or at worst (from a potential revenue perspective) not the financial target group. What we do know is: You are currently not part of the target audience for the way templates/builds are implemented. Time will tell if the developers manage to make the system appeal to more players or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > ... but I'll bet their metrics show them that many did, those dedicated enough to want to have enough equipment slots for characters that need more than the two provided would've done so. > > Yes, and that led to a dramatic increase in revenue in 4th quarter 2019, when the system was introduced. Oh, wait... revenue actually fell dramatically in 4Q19. Now, maybe the load-out system actually saved the game, but on the face of it, it doesn't look like the system was widely accepted by the target market. Why? Psychology. ANet introduced a high-priced system that is dramatically inferior to that provided by the free add-on they tolerated for years. As Mindcircus said, that left a bad taste in the mouth. > > Problem with that argument is we have no answers as to why revenue declined so sharply in the 4th quarter, the only people that know the reasons why are ArenaNet and NCSoft...and that's something I won't even speculate on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Not against it, but would be unfair for those of us who already paid for per-character templates. How would that work for us? However, I would def want more than 6 templates and better integration with PVP, I can't get in queue outside of HotM without something funky going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron.7850 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > Not against it, but would be unfair for those of us who already paid for per-character templates. > How would that work for us? > > However, I would def want more than 6 templates and better integration with PVP, I can't get in queue outside of HotM without something funky going on. There is a thing called Steam sales and a lot of games go up to 75% discount sale, for many companies these sales represent a huge boost in revenue. Its called business and pro-consumer tactics. I dont cry and complain when a game I bought at full price goes cheaper down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deihnyx.6318 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 > @"aaron.7850" said: > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > Not against it, but would be unfair for those of us who already paid for per-character templates. > > How would that work for us? > > > > However, I would def want more than 6 templates and better integration with PVP, I can't get in queue outside of HotM without something funky going on. > > There is a thing called Steam sales and a lot of games go up to 75% discount sale, for many companies these sales represent a huge boost in revenue. Its called business and pro-consumer tactics. I dont cry and complain when a game I bought at full price goes cheaper down the road. > That is not the same thing. Sales are expected. A change in pricing model is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infusion.7149 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 I would expect new equipment template bundles if they intend to sell more of them. (i.e. 5+ = 20% or more discount and 10+ = 25%+ discount , first 5-10 for much less, or unlock all for a character at a reduced amount). Anyway while I would say build storage is a extremely pricey, Arenanet was rather up front about equipment templates : we were told to expect pricing in line with bag slots and bank tabs. Could they have been cheaper? Definitely. Could "build templates" have specified what sort of equipment stats and weapons were run? Definitely. In addition, extra equipment templates aren't relevant for the casual playerbase that doesn't WvW and just uses Berserker's (or Berserker's mixed to reach 100% crit chance) + Viper's gear (or whatever condi mix). 2 equipment templates covers that so it hurts support players the most and WvW players that don't use dedicated WvW characters. Equipment templates allow you to use +5 WvW stat infusions _much_ more effectively if you have legendary armor, backpiece, weapons, and trinkets with 3+ stats using those items. You won't need to extract or remove the +9 agony infusions to put in WvW infusions. That's basically the only time they have significant QoL improvement over 2-4 ascended sets or 2 character slots. The amount of equipment templates is limited right now but it has been datamined up to 10 templates on a character. Short of min-maxing in PvE that should cover _most_ use cases if you have a dedicated WvW character and dedicated PvE character ; if you play PvE and only WvW occasionally you could get by with 4-5 templates for a support class (i.e. firebrand/DH, renegade/herald, tempest/weaver, holo/scrapper, berserker/spellbreaker, reaper/scourge, soulbeast/druid which doesn't belong in WvW) and 3 templates for non support (i.e. thief). Mesmer has the outright roughest time due to the min-maxing factors. Legendary armory is supposed to address the lower "gain" in making legendaries and to solve the shared inventory character legendary swapping requirement. That's the shared inventory equivalent here, and I fully expect it to be monetized directly or indirectly (requiring equipment templates). If next patch suddenly build storage was increased to the level of bank storage where one 500 gem purchase gets you 24-30 slots (unlikely) and the basic no-purchase slots actually could fit one per class then it would be much more reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 > @"aaron.7850" said: > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > Not against it, but would be unfair for those of us who already paid for per-character templates. > > How would that work for us? > > > > However, I would def want more than 6 templates and better integration with PVP, I can't get in queue outside of HotM without something funky going on. > > There is a thing called Steam sales and a lot of games go up to 75% discount sale, for many companies these sales represent a huge boost in revenue. Its called business and pro-consumer tactics. I dont cry and complain when a game I bought at full price goes cheaper down the road. > The flaw here is: game sales and price drops as they age (though there are games which are not affected by this as much, see Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild for example). GW2 in game convenience items have not depreciated in value the same way. Character slots are just as expensive now as they were back when they were introduced. Items here going on sale has a very different effect compared to game sales, and most never go on sale with 75% or such ludicrous values.. Mostly because this game is in continued development. Then there is the entire issue that in order to publish on steam you have to agree to valves rules, and there are rules which regulate mandatory sales and price reduction based on age. The most reasonable assumption here is that the equipment and build templates will see improving until the value/price proposition is high enough to entice enough players to purchase more. Chances are very low this will be done via price reduction across the board, since improving the system is overall more beneficial financially and from a quality of life perspective. In short: if you are holding out for high price reductions, you might be in for a long wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > @"aaron.7850" said: > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said: > > > Not against it, but would be unfair for those of us who already paid for per-character templates. > > > How would that work for us? > > > > > > However, I would def want more than 6 templates and better integration with PVP, I can't get in queue outside of HotM without something funky going on. > > > > There is a thing called Steam sales and a lot of games go up to 75% discount sale, for many companies these sales represent a huge boost in revenue. Its called business and pro-consumer tactics. I dont cry and complain when a game I bought at full price goes cheaper down the road. > > > > That is not the same thing. Sales are expected. A change in pricing model is not. This entire game changed it's pricing model after Heart of Thorns released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: >Chances are very low this will be done via price reduction across the board, since improving the system is overall more beneficial financially and from a quality of life perspective. Just what do you think they could value-add to this system that will make it worth the current price? How many dev hours would be needed to reach that magical QoL tipping point that actually gives his product the value it needs to justify the cost to consumers? Do you really think that the dev time invested would be cheaper and drive more sales than just adjusting the pricing? They still have a fair number of impactful bugs in this product to iron out and those fixes haven't exactly been coming in a timely manner. Bugs aside, the current build template system is absolutely fantastic in terms of functionality, ease of use and the ability to share. But if you think that spending a bunch more development resources on improving it's QoL features is going to drive more revenue than simply adjusting the pricing, you are as out of touch with what players want as the people who monetized it in the first place. As it stands the current system's value is *still* eclipsed by purchasing an extra character slot... the "solution" this system was supposed to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > >Chances are very low this will be done via price reduction across the board, since improving the system is overall more beneficial financially and from a quality of life perspective. > Just what do you think they could value-add to this system that will make it worth the current price? How many dev hours would be needed to reach that magical QoL tipping point that actually gives his product the value it needs to justify the cost to consumers? > Do you really think that the dev time invested would be cheaper and drive more sales than just adjusting the pricing? > They still have a fair number of impactful bugs in this product to iron out and those fixes haven't exactly been coming in a timely manner. > > Bugs aside, the current build template system is absolutely fantastic in terms of functionality, ease of use and the ability to share. > But if you think that spending a bunch more development resources on improving it's QoL features is going to drive more revenue than simply adjusting the pricing, you are as out of touch with what players want as the people who monetized it in the first place. > > As it stands the current system's value is *still* eclipsed by purchasing an extra character slot... the "solution" this system was supposed to address. Were have they ever stated that this system was made so people dident have to buy any more character slots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenella.2634 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > >Chances are very low this will be done via price reduction across the board, since improving the system is overall more beneficial financially and from a quality of life perspective. > Just what do you think they could value-add to this system that will make it worth the current price? How many dev hours would be needed to reach that magical QoL tipping point that actually gives his product the value it needs to justify the cost to consumers? Right now it's so overpriced. :lol: Maxing out one character of each class costs as much as several entire expacs, so yes... That'd be *a lot* of work hours and *a lot* of additional QoL until it's worth that much money. I'm not buying anything loadout-related until there's at least a 90 to 95 % discount. About 20 € total is the absolut maximum I'm willing to spend for build templates for the whole account. Anything more expensive than that is completely out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 > @"Fenella.2634" said: > I'm not buying anything loadout-related until there's at least a 90 to 95 % discount. About 20 € total is the absolut maximum I'm willing to spend for build templates for the whole account. Anything more expensive than that is completely out of the question. And I would gladly pay 1200 gems for a single account wide Equipment Storage slot unlock. 800 for a single account wide Build Template slot unlock. At these prices Arenanet would see regular purchases of these from me. Right now the fraction of that they are seeing for these upgrades is diddly/squat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > >Chances are very low this will be done via price reduction across the board, since improving the system is overall more beneficial financially and from a quality of life perspective. > Just what do you think they could value-add to this system that will make it worth the current price? How many dev hours would be needed to reach that magical QoL tipping point that actually gives his product the value it needs to justify the cost to consumers? > Do you really think that the dev time invested would be cheaper and drive more sales than just adjusting the pricing? > They still have a fair number of impactful bugs in this product to iron out and those fixes haven't exactly been coming in a timely manner. > > Bugs aside, the current build template system is absolutely fantastic in terms of functionality, ease of use and the ability to share. > But if you think that spending a bunch more development resources on improving it's QoL features is going to drive more revenue than simply adjusting the pricing, you are as out of touch with what players want as the people who monetized it in the first place. > > As it stands the current system's value is *still* eclipsed by purchasing an extra character slot... the "solution" this system was supposed to address. - a "save" button - optional on screen UI elements to switch between different builds on demand - fixing of all the bugs - unique visual templates per slot, removing the detriment of legendary versus ascended - the already announced account wide legendary armory Don't assume. I have multiple characters with maxed equipment templates, I'd even have more on some of them if the cap wasn't 6. Not everyone is in for a free ride with this game. That said, the goal with templates doesn't have to be that every player who wants one can afford one (as cruel as that might sound). The primary goal is to implement them as a reliable and consistent revenue stream. If that is achievable via offering additional quality of life, that will likely be the first step taken. > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > As it stands the current system's value is *still* eclipsed by purchasing an extra character slot... the "solution" this system was supposed to address. That does not make any sense from a business perspective. Why would they try to phase out one of their likely main revenue streams? Equipment templates where meant to address a lot of things, reducing the purchase of additional character slots was likely not one of them. On the contrary, if templates are in competition with character slot purchases, it becomes even more imperative to distinguish both items, yet keep them at a similar price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pifil.5193 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 > @"TPMN.1483" said: > Just give us the option to export and load to file already for an equipment template like GW1 ! > > I have like 20-30 equipment builds for each character and this system does not support my needs. Yeah, if the builds were stored locally and included the equipment then I'd have no problem with the system at all. There was no need to charge to store builds especially as it came with such limited storage space. Thankfully there are overlays that allow you to easily store builds now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > - a "save" button To save to your hard drive you mean? This would immediately kill the perceived value of the gemstore Template Storage offerings. > - optional on screen UI elements to switch between different builds on demand Are they not hotkeyable? Why in the world would you need something to click? > - fixing of all the bugs When was the last time you read patch notes that included a bug fix for this system? > - unique visual templates per slot, removing the detriment of legendary versus ascended Can you honestly tell the rest of us that you believe a cosmetic loadout system wouldn't be packaged and monetized separately? > - the already announced account wide legendary armory This alone does not increase the value to enough to warrant the cost to me > Don't assume. I have multiple characters with maxed equipment templates, I'd even have more on some of them if the cap wasn't 6. Not everyone is in for a free ride with this game. Weird flex but ok. >That said, the goal with templates doesn't have to be that every player who wants one can afford one (as cruel as that might sound). The primary goal is to implement them as a reliable and consistent revenue stream. If that is achievable via offering additional quality of life, that will likely be the first step taken. That's funny, I thought the goal was to release a long requested feature that was perceived as a value by enough people as to generate a decent amount of revenue. But you're right releasing a three quarters baked product, triple-dipping on the monetization, leaving impacting bugs unaddressed for multiple patches and "making it all better later" sounds like a solid plan. > On the contrary, if templates are in competition with character slot purchases, it becomes even more imperative to distinguish both items, yet keep them at a similar price. They aren't at a similar price point at all. For 800 gems I get two equipment storage spots and three Build Template spots as a character slot. Bought separately and added to an existing character at a non-discounted price this represents 2500 gems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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