ZDragon.3046 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay > > I dont want to see added power damage onto scepter, I view it as condi weapon, what devs could do is, make the last tick add 3 stacks of confusion and bonus, or if you get at least 5 stacks get extra Y stacks, or if you land all ticks, apply 3 stacks of torment, instead of making it simply deal more damage, give it counterplay. > If you dodge half of the rapid fire you are still screwed, instead of 15k you take, 7-8. > I dont like how mesmer is handled in general RN, straight nerfs do nobody good, give better counterplay. > Why nerf scepter 2 if you can increase its cooldown, and make it refund it when you land the hit? > example, sc2 has 15s cd, if you dont land the hit it goes on 15s cd, if you land the hit it goes on 6s. > > TLDR, dont nerf/buff numbers add counterplay to abilities. If you wanted to even consider doing this then the skill itself needs to be made much more visable among a mesmer chaos that is its clones running around and attacking. The skill would need something visually like full counter if not more so that immediately makes you stand out while blocking from like well over 1500 range away that sets you clear apart from your clones. As it is right now most people hit iCounter because its not super hard to see but its certainly not overly noticeable among true chaos that is a fight with a mesmer. it really would need to be more backwards like using the counter puts it on a 15s cd and not being hit while blocking refunds it in its current form. I would suggest you just take the clone reduction and deal. You already have a free follow up should some one not strike you anyways there really is not much counter to this skill at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > > > > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay > > > > I dont want to see added power damage onto scepter, I view it as condi weapon, what devs could do is, make the last tick add 3 stacks of confusion and bonus, or if you get at least 5 stacks get extra Y stacks, or if you land all ticks, apply 3 stacks of torment, instead of making it simply deal more damage, give it counterplay. > > If you dodge half of the rapid fire you are still screwed, instead of 15k you take, 7-8. > > I dont like how mesmer is handled in general RN, straight nerfs do nobody good, give better counterplay. > > Why nerf scepter 2 if you can increase its cooldown, and make it refund it when you land the hit? > > example, sc2 has 15s cd, if you dont land the hit it goes on 15s cd, if you land the hit it goes on 6s. > > > > TLDR, dont nerf/buff numbers add counterplay to abilities. > > If you wanted to even consider doing this then the skill itself needs to be made much more visable among a mesmer chaos that is its clones running around and attacking. The skill would need something visually like full counter if not more so that immediately makes you stand out while blocking from like well over 1500 range away that sets you clear apart from your clones. > > As it is right now most people hit iCounter because its not super hard to see but its certainly not overly noticeable among true chaos that is a fight with a mesmer. it really would need to be more backwards like using the counter puts it on a 15s cd and not being hit while blocking refunds it in its current form. > > I would suggest you just take the clone reduction and deal. You already have a free follow up should some one not strike you anyways there really is not much counter to this skill at the moment. > there is, not attacking into it. unblockable and most importantly DODGING. clones visual clutter is meaningless, you should know what to focus, watch shorts play against mesmer, have not seen him once get fooled by a clone. all I can say is that MB scepter 2 should have like glowing shield or something during animating it, but devs would have to put some effort into it so i doubt it will ever happen, instead we will just see nerf after nerf like usual, low effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > Preemptively blocking means you are hoping to get lucky to block the attack. > There should be counterplay to stealth that requires skill, not luck. If you want to argue that, I won't stop you. Just be aware that if you shave thieves stealth to make counterplaying them easier, they should also be made tankier so they have counterplay against people stripping what is currently a large portion of their defense. I'd rather a stealthy, brittle thief that you can stall off the point than a brawler. You cannot have neither~ > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > > @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said: > > > > Mind you, guardians have access to shadowsteps too. Equality, am I right? You're vouching for theirs to get nerfed, too, correct? > > > While technically it's a Meditation and only one, it should be shaved it bit when Thieves get theirs shaved. > > > Leap of Faith is fine though, as it has obvious weakness, like being vulnerable during it or a highly telegraphed landing (which Shadow Steps don't have). > > And merciful intervention. > > And Sword 2. > All of which require a target to teleport, unlike some of the Thief Shadow Steps. Yeah, and thieves also have much less active and passive defense when they take damage. My argument is that if you want to telegraph shadowsteps, telegraph all of them instead of just the ones pertaining to thieves. Unless you want to make them tankier in exchange for being less speedy.. > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > @"Fueki.4753" said: > > > The entire point of stealth currently is to hide yourself from the other player, fishing for stealth attacks that have no counterplay (and no, pure luck in finding and revealing the invisible enemy or ~~hacks to see see through stealth~~ do not count as counterplay). > > > > You cannot argue soundly while discounting the argument that would challenge yours as not counting. Those things count (at least the fair ones.) > > > There are quite a few avenues on classes to gain access to revealed. Some of those classes also put a cc on the revealed individual on skill hit, or reveal the individual while they are cced. > Meanwhile Revealed is few and rare in between with only Dragon Hunter having two: one being a trap and the other one being Spear of Justice, which really only would be a pot shot into randomly chosen directions, requiring enormous luck to hit the enemy with. Dont potshot spear of justice. It's for preventing stealth, not revealing from stealth. Itll even pierce smoke screen if the thief just stealthed, provided it didnt hit an evade frame. > On top of that, most AoE revealing skills have pitiful range and therefore rarely ever hit Thieves. Thieves usually have to be in range to contest you on a point. > I'm not sure if any Engineers even run Utility Goggles for that 1200 ranged Reveal. Does that make it not counterplay? > > In addition to that, stealthed characters do not cease to exist while they are stealthed, which makes marking the ground or laying AOEs or traps at your feet good to dissuade them. > And if the Thief pays attention watch you, they know where you placed AoEs and evade them, or they trigger them and quickly disengage to heal after clearing the AoE. Why is this not counterplay? You've wasted the thief's time, given yourself more time on the point, and have a few seconds for cd resets before they come back. If you placed an AOE you know the thief is nearby and can prepare for them. If you are DH you also have symbols and blocks to stall further. All this time the thief is losing/not gaining the objective. Just because you cant see them doesnt mean you can't control their actions/dissuade them from attacking for a few seconds/goad them into giving their location away. > > You can also often judge when stealthed characters will attack you based on how their HP looked when they stealthed > Seeing how fast Thieves can heal up, their remaining health is no valuable indicator. Withdraw has a standard cd, thats their only quick heal. all you have to do is count it if it has been used. If they are half health or below they -absolutely- want to heal if they can help it, because of how glassy they are by nature. You can reasonably judge how aggressive a thief is going to be with you based on that and what utilities theyve spent. > > block preemptively to stall them. > Preemptively blocking means you are hoping to get lucky to block the attack. No it doesn't, not if you use it with intent. It also stops them from attacking unless they are running basilisk venom. if they hit you, the block indication shows up and lets you know they're hugging you. If they dont hit you, they're probably waiting for your block to run out, which gives you time for their revealed to expire. If they restealth, there is usually a visual or audio cue that they did that, and that lets you know they used another resource to stall you, one they wont have when they decide to engage. > All the "counterplay" consists of: > 1) getting lucky with a block or Aegis and killing the Thief before they run away. > 2) getting lucky with a small AoE Reveal and killing the Thief before they run away. > 3) getting lucky due to the Thief not paying attention and triggering some Mark or Trap and killing the Thief before they run away. Thieves are geared for decapping if they aren't Deadeye. If they're spending all their time running away from you 1v1, you're winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > > > > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > > > > > > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay > > > > > > I dont want to see added power damage onto scepter, I view it as condi weapon, what devs could do is, make the last tick add 3 stacks of confusion and bonus, or if you get at least 5 stacks get extra Y stacks, or if you land all ticks, apply 3 stacks of torment, instead of making it simply deal more damage, give it counterplay. > > > If you dodge half of the rapid fire you are still screwed, instead of 15k you take, 7-8. > > > I dont like how mesmer is handled in general RN, straight nerfs do nobody good, give better counterplay. > > > Why nerf scepter 2 if you can increase its cooldown, and make it refund it when you land the hit? > > > example, sc2 has 15s cd, if you dont land the hit it goes on 15s cd, if you land the hit it goes on 6s. > > > > > > TLDR, dont nerf/buff numbers add counterplay to abilities. > > > > If you wanted to even consider doing this then the skill itself needs to be made much more visable among a mesmer chaos that is its clones running around and attacking. The skill would need something visually like full counter if not more so that immediately makes you stand out while blocking from like well over 1500 range away that sets you clear apart from your clones. > > > > As it is right now most people hit iCounter because its not super hard to see but its certainly not overly noticeable among true chaos that is a fight with a mesmer. it really would need to be more backwards like using the counter puts it on a 15s cd and not being hit while blocking refunds it in its current form. > > > > I would suggest you just take the clone reduction and deal. You already have a free follow up should some one not strike you anyways there really is not much counter to this skill at the moment. > > > > there is, not attacking into it. Then you get to press the skill again and blind while still summoning a clone... as i said there is not really much counter-play to the full current version of the skill. > unblockable and most importantly DODGING. Because everyone has unblockable in their kits these days. > clones visual clutter is meaningless, you should know what to focus, watch shorts play against mesmer, have not seen him once get fooled by a clone. I think the best thing you can do here is spend a week straight playing something thats not an immediate counter to mirage / mesmer and see how it works out for you. To understand how effective something can be you need to experience it yourself without using the exact same thing. you might find that you are not like shorts either and get fooled by enemy mesmers from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > > > > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > > > > > > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay > > > > > > lol scepter is not a condi weapon? > > > Auto chain applies damaging conditions > > > counter applies damaging conditions > > > skill 3 does direct damage and applies damaging condition > > > Nope not a condition weapon. > > > > > > Lets compare it to long bow > > > Auto attack does not apply damaging condition > > > Rapid fire not a damaging condition > > > Hunters shot no damaging conditions > > > Point blank shot no damaging conditions > > > > > > I mean i think you see where this is going > > > No you cant have 5-10k strike damage on a condition weapon > > > Stop comparing a condition weapon, to power weapon thats not how you win the argument > > > > it's not a condi weapon because if you go full condi you going to do very low damage unless you are a mirage doing ambush, it's a weapon of both power and condi, it's more like axe from ranger, i compared it to rapid fire because of similar combo, the multi hits+ cast time, while a full glass cannon ranger will hit for 15k+ damage with 2k range, confusing images with 900 range will hit for like 5k damage even if you go both power and condi, if you go full condi the damage will never pass from 2k. > > still a bad comparison imo > > > if you go full condi with scepter you can't be sure that you going to do any damage at all because of the low duration from torment and confusion plus you are dependant from your opponent actions > > So if we take a full condi ranger and give him a axe what do you think is going to happen? > The same flaws you just listed with condi scepter. You wont be sure that you are going to do any damage at all because of the low duration of bleeds and unreliable hit box of split blade plus you are depending from your opponents actions to get a melee face full of that spit blade. > > Sorry this is not a reason go buff scepter 3 > Considering scepter is one of mirages or mesmers most used weapons right now in competitive you must be misinformed of its viability. maybe is bad for you, but condition damage is supposed to do more damage than power damage, power is burst while condition is over time and can be cleansed so it should do more damage what is not the case of scepter, it does less damage than power even over time. condi ranger does bleed damage, if the enemy stay still he going to take the full damage, scepter does confusion if the enemy stay still you do 0 damage that's the difference, so yeah going full condi ranger with axe is viable, while scepter is not. yeah everyone pick scepter AS MIRAGE because of the ambush, without ambush it's bad as condi now if you really compare splitblade with confusing images while splitblade has 6s cd with 3/4s of cast time only, the bleed will do all the damage, while confusing images have a 2+1/4s cast time with 12s cd and you need the enemy to atk to the same damage, if you not near the enemy it's just get canceled if he walk a little, then you have the strafe abusers that make scepter miss even if you are not blinded. tell me how scepter is ok without being a mirage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > 2. Shatters 1-3 because they all do stupid amounts of damage **or** cc you > > Stopped reading when you said shatter 1-3 deal stupid ammount of damage, then again 200 damage can be considered stupid, right? > > That's a surprising argument to cherry pick for, especially when you are accusing shadow of taking things out of context and claiming that, because of that allegation, people should ignore him. I would advise against throwing stones in glass houses, but you do you though. Up to this point Shadow has been regular in providing at the very least full context screenshots and at the most videos when he says something is busted, so usually researching and testing his claims are very easy. Not that I think he's correct every time he makes a claim but at least he documents what he's talking about. > > I'm not on board with magic bullet nerfs because I haven't objectively considered them **yet**, but there is very clearly an **or** there to create a distinction between whether a shatter does damage or CC. His argument is obviously saying that, given all the other things being thrown at you that can do significant damage over a Mesmer's normal rotation, Magic bullet situationally does too much. > > Whether or not that is the case is up for debate, but it won't be being touched this iteration anyway. > > > Well if you cherry pick enough you can make a lot of non consequential and ineffective skills appear completely broken. Slap Balthazar runes on carrion ele with signet of fire + trait, use it on the packs of golems and you'll see 5 golems die to 1 ability easily, 17k x 5. Take healing spring, assume everyone blasts it twice each, leaps twice each and it becomes the most broken heal in the game. Killshot meme is doing 40k to people and they think it's a barrier trait thing but it's not, it always has had this damage add quickness or stealth EZ. If you align core power shatter perfectly, full zerk, scholar, damage traits on stunned etc you can hit some bonkers burst rivalling Mr Killshot. Toss elixir R can revive a whole team + the engineer TWICE on just over a 1min cool down when fully traited. Skelk Venom can heal the entire team for 6k each, that's 30k + original 4k heal on the thief! Signet of courage can heal for over 100k if the team has enough health and doesn't die in the long cast. Epidemic can put 25 stacks of every single condition in the game on up to 5 people, SO BUSTED! All of that stuff isn't really broken because it's just not that effective, the effort and co-ordination to get anywhere close to the best possible benefit is unlikely to happen or be possible in a normal game or it has drawbacks that become apparent in a normal fight. Yet all of that is technically true. It does no-one any good cherry picking arguments and painting best possible scenarios as if it happens all the time, especially when it's on a golem that doesn't fight back, cleanse or dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"apharma.3741" said: > All of that stuff isn't really broken because it's just not that effective, the effort and co-ordination to get anywhere close to the best possible benefit is unlikely to happen or be possible in a normal game or it has drawbacks that become apparent in a normal fight. Yet all of that is technically true. > It does no-one any good cherry picking arguments and painting best possible scenarios as if it happens all the time, especially when it's on a golem that doesn't fight back, cleanse or dodge. A fair assessment, but Staff/ Scepter/Pistol [remains meta.](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_CI_But_Without_CI "remains meta. ") For general use, there is significant consensus that the build performs very strongly. The numbers may or may not be correct depending on what claim you pull from, but not every claim of certain synergies requires the stars to align or requires someone to run an otherwise glassy, ineffectual build. We're talking about (at least mostly, in this thread from what I can tell) a build that has very heavy power scaling in conquest, and can put heavy, if not twenty, bleeding stacks on you with Sharper Images/Magic Bullet synergy. We can talk about Axe not doing 24 stacks of torment or what have you all day, but hyperbole aside, the strength of the build above for general matchup use has been established. If information is incorrect, say so; but as a general rule for people arguing vs the nerfs being pushed this patch, don't use inconsistencies as a ticket to discredit the entire claim or dodge it when a point is being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > 2. Shatters 1-3 because they all do stupid amounts of damage **or** cc you > > > Stopped reading when you said shatter 1-3 deal stupid ammount of damage, then again 200 damage can be considered stupid, right? > > > > That's a surprising argument to cherry pick for, especially when you are accusing shadow of taking things out of context and claiming that, because of that allegation, people should ignore him. I would advise against throwing stones in glass houses, but you do you though. Up to this point Shadow has been regular in providing at the very least full context screenshots and at the most videos when he says something is busted, so usually researching and testing his claims are very easy. Not that I think he's correct every time he makes a claim but at least he documents what he's talking about. > > > > I'm not on board with magic bullet nerfs because I haven't objectively considered them **yet**, but there is very clearly an **or** there to create a distinction between whether a shatter does damage or CC. His argument is obviously saying that, given all the other things being thrown at you that can do significant damage over a Mesmer's normal rotation, Magic bullet situationally does too much. > > > > Whether or not that is the case is up for debate, but it won't be being touched this iteration anyway. > > > > > > > > Well if you cherry pick enough you can make a lot of non consequential and ineffective skills appear completely broken. > > Slap Balthazar runes on carrion ele with signet of fire + trait, use it on the packs of golems and you'll see 5 golems die to 1 ability easily, 17k x 5. > Take healing spring, assume everyone blasts it twice each, leaps twice each and it becomes the most broken heal in the game. > Killshot meme is doing 40k to people and they think it's a barrier trait thing but it's not, it always has had this damage add quickness or stealth EZ. > If you align core power shatter perfectly, full zerk, scholar, damage traits on stunned etc you can hit some bonkers burst rivalling Mr Killshot. > Toss elixir R can revive a whole team + the engineer TWICE on just over a 1min cool down when fully traited. > Skelk Venom can heal the entire team for 6k each, that's 30k + original 4k heal on the thief! > Signet of courage can heal for over 100k if the team has enough health and doesn't die in the long cast. > Epidemic can put 25 stacks of every single condition in the game on up to 5 people, SO BUSTED! > > All of that stuff isn't really broken because it's just not that effective, the effort and co-ordination to get anywhere close to the best possible benefit is unlikely to happen or be possible in a normal game or it has drawbacks that become apparent in a normal fight. Yet all of that is technically true. > > It does no-one any good cherry picking arguments and painting best possible scenarios as if it happens all the time, especially when it's on a golem that doesn't fight back, cleanse or dodge. ^Exactly this. Would deserve +100 thumb ups. @"shadowpass.4236" Mention mid season lb position might look better so you like to name it like that but in the end you never were even near a rating worth Top 100 title in EU in previous seasons with your Coremesmer when you played in last season and that even with last season the requirement for Top 100 dropped below P3 the first time, means was as low as never before. Yet we are at cherry picking facts in an exaggerating way to make things look more like we want it to look (in day 2 of the season you can be rank 1 with 1500 rating still doesn't rly make you a rank 1 player and still is only p1 rating will not even be Top 100 in the end). I doesn't make sense to mention mid season lb positions at all. Anyway this wasn't even my point. My point was the little hypocrite behavior to devalue someones arguments for a rating not that far below your own in last season. During you in another post even mentioned 1000 arguments why a lower rating than your skill lvl can easy happen with 4 random players in a low population game with flawed matchmaking since they broke it in s2. During skill/ iq/ experience clearly correlates with gameknowledge/ -understanding, rank does not necessarily. Because the correlation between skill and rank isn't near as strong as it should be anymore for a lot of reasons i don't want to repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > All of that stuff isn't really broken because it's just not that effective, the effort and co-ordination to get anywhere close to the best possible benefit is unlikely to happen or be possible in a normal game or it has drawbacks that become apparent in a normal fight. Yet all of that is technically true. > > It does no-one any good cherry picking arguments and painting best possible scenarios as if it happens all the time, especially when it's on a golem that doesn't fight back, cleanse or dodge. > > A fair assessment, but Staff/ Scepter/Pistol [remains meta.](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_CI_But_Without_CI "remains meta. ") For general use, there is significant consensus that the build performs very strongly. The numbers may or may not be correct depending on what claim you pull from, but not every claim of certain synergies requires the stars to align or requires someone to run an otherwise glassy, ineffectual build. We're talking about (at least mostly, in this thread from what I can tell) a build that has very heavy power scaling in conquest, and can put heavy, if not twenty, bleeding stacks on you with Sharper Images/Magic Bullet synergy. > > We can talk about Axe not doing 24 stacks of torment or what have you all day, but hyperbole aside, the strength of the build above for general matchup use has been established. If information is incorrect, say so; but as a general rule for people arguing vs the nerfs being pushed this patch, don't use inconsistencies as a ticket to discredit the entire claim or dodge it when a point is being made. > Again what I meet everyday on plat2 EU is mesmer running coreburst or powermirage. Furthermore, there is less and less condi mirage on mAt. So saying Staff/scepter,pistol remain meta seems a little inacurrate currently IMO and will probably be finished next patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > 2. Shatters 1-3 because they all do stupid amounts of damage **or** cc you > > > > Stopped reading when you said shatter 1-3 deal stupid ammount of damage, then again 200 damage can be considered stupid, right? > > > > > > That's a surprising argument to cherry pick for, especially when you are accusing shadow of taking things out of context and claiming that, because of that allegation, people should ignore him. I would advise against throwing stones in glass houses, but you do you though. Up to this point Shadow has been regular in providing at the very least full context screenshots and at the most videos when he says something is busted, so usually researching and testing his claims are very easy. Not that I think he's correct every time he makes a claim but at least he documents what he's talking about. > > > > > > I'm not on board with magic bullet nerfs because I haven't objectively considered them **yet**, but there is very clearly an **or** there to create a distinction between whether a shatter does damage or CC. His argument is obviously saying that, given all the other things being thrown at you that can do significant damage over a Mesmer's normal rotation, Magic bullet situationally does too much. > > > > > > Whether or not that is the case is up for debate, but it won't be being touched this iteration anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well if you cherry pick enough you can make a lot of non consequential and ineffective skills appear completely broken. > > > > Slap Balthazar runes on carrion ele with signet of fire + trait, use it on the packs of golems and you'll see 5 golems die to 1 ability easily, 17k x 5. > > Take healing spring, assume everyone blasts it twice each, leaps twice each and it becomes the most broken heal in the game. > > Killshot meme is doing 40k to people and they think it's a barrier trait thing but it's not, it always has had this damage add quickness or stealth EZ. > > If you align core power shatter perfectly, full zerk, scholar, damage traits on stunned etc you can hit some bonkers burst rivalling Mr Killshot. > > Toss elixir R can revive a whole team + the engineer TWICE on just over a 1min cool down when fully traited. > > Skelk Venom can heal the entire team for 6k each, that's 30k + original 4k heal on the thief! > > Signet of courage can heal for over 100k if the team has enough health and doesn't die in the long cast. > > Epidemic can put 25 stacks of every single condition in the game on up to 5 people, SO BUSTED! > > > > All of that stuff isn't really broken because it's just not that effective, the effort and co-ordination to get anywhere close to the best possible benefit is unlikely to happen or be possible in a normal game or it has drawbacks that become apparent in a normal fight. Yet all of that is technically true. > > > > It does no-one any good cherry picking arguments and painting best possible scenarios as if it happens all the time, especially when it's on a golem that doesn't fight back, cleanse or dodge. > > ^Exactly this. Would deserve +100 thumb ups. > > @"shadowpass.4236" Mention mid season lb position might look better so you like to name it like that but in the end you never were even near a rating worth Top 100 title in EU in previous seasons with your Coremesmer when you played in last season and that even with last season the requirement for Top 100 dropped below P3 the first time, means was as low as never before. Yet we are at cherry picking facts in an exaggerating way to make things look more like we want it to look (in day 2 of the season you can be rank 1 with 1500 rating still doesn't rly make you a rank 1 player and still is only p1 rating will not even be Top 100 in the end). I doesn't make sense to mention mid season lb positions at all. Anyway this wasn't even my point. My point was the little hypocrite behavior to bevalue someones arguments for a rating not that far below your own in last season. During you in another post even mentioned 1000 arguments why a lower rating than your skill lvl can easy happen with 4 random players in a low population game with flawed matchmaking since they broke it in s2. During skill/ iq/ experience clearly correlates with gameknowledge/ -understanding, rank does not necessarily. Because the correlation between skill and rank isn't near as strong as it should be anymore for a lot of reasons i don't want to repeat. > > I don't know what you're trying to get at dude. I played during the end of the season on EU. I also was higher than r60 I just didn't upload the last few games I played cause I ended up going into a huge loss streak and just didn't feel like acknowledging this game's existence anymore. I've played with mid to high gold players who skill click, keyboard turn, never dodge, and triple cap home. I'm not going to argue balance decisions with someone who's been hard stuck with THESE types of players for months who insist they know what they're talking about. It is the literal definition of the Dunning Kruger Effect. I'm not a hypocrite lmao. You can go into any high rated PvPers stream on NA and ask them, "Hey, do you know someone named Shadowfall? Is he a potato or does he actually know how to play this game?" Speaking of being a hypocrite, you LITERALLY just said, "Hey I never see you at high rankings." then go "High rankings don't matter." - NEWSFLASH!!!! That's called being a hypocrite. I just mention my rank cause people bring it up or want to doubt me. It's always hilarious that they go invalidate the rank. If you guys think it's so easy to get r1 and r2 titles, then do it! Until then, they are achievements that 99.9% of the GW2 population that has ever existed/will ever exist WILL NEVER get. Why? Because they aren't skilled enough to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 @"bravan.3876" Like dude, look at this game I just played! https://imgur.com/a/qbgxgVX I was fucking 1v3 the ENTIRE match and won several 1v2s. Guess what the score is? 499-500 cause I fucking killed someone in a 1v2 at the very end and got the decap before 1 second before they won the game. I had to use Shake It Off on the guardian downstate knockback which gave me just a fraction of a second that I needed to secure the cleave in time before the next point ticked. Call me a hypocrite as much as you want but even the people on the [enemy team](https://imgur.com/a/kEEw3KK) realize how much I'm carrying every time I play. I get reported consistently for "hacking" and "macros" after winning outnumbered fights, /sit spammed after dying in 1v4 where their warrior had to rampage me to get the kill, like... it's really tiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viquing.8254 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay You can also compare it to nec axe. Btw on zerk gear mesmer confusing images hit way less than rapide fire, ghastly claws, photon blitz, scepter ele or whatever other similar canalysed skills. But you know when this damage was on pair with other similar skills, plebs who didn't get used to mesmer doing same damage for same gear as them, over cry on this forum about how op it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > 2. Shatters 1-3 because they all do stupid amounts of damage **or** cc you > > > > > Stopped reading when you said shatter 1-3 deal stupid ammount of damage, then again 200 damage can be considered stupid, right? > > > > > > > > That's a surprising argument to cherry pick for, especially when you are accusing shadow of taking things out of context and claiming that, because of that allegation, people should ignore him. I would advise against throwing stones in glass houses, but you do you though. Up to this point Shadow has been regular in providing at the very least full context screenshots and at the most videos when he says something is busted, so usually researching and testing his claims are very easy. Not that I think he's correct every time he makes a claim but at least he documents what he's talking about. > > > > > > > > I'm not on board with magic bullet nerfs because I haven't objectively considered them **yet**, but there is very clearly an **or** there to create a distinction between whether a shatter does damage or CC. His argument is obviously saying that, given all the other things being thrown at you that can do significant damage over a Mesmer's normal rotation, Magic bullet situationally does too much. > > > > > > > > Whether or not that is the case is up for debate, but it won't be being touched this iteration anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well if you cherry pick enough you can make a lot of non consequential and ineffective skills appear completely broken. > > > > > > Slap Balthazar runes on carrion ele with signet of fire + trait, use it on the packs of golems and you'll see 5 golems die to 1 ability easily, 17k x 5. > > > Take healing spring, assume everyone blasts it twice each, leaps twice each and it becomes the most broken heal in the game. > > > Killshot meme is doing 40k to people and they think it's a barrier trait thing but it's not, it always has had this damage add quickness or stealth EZ. > > > If you align core power shatter perfectly, full zerk, scholar, damage traits on stunned etc you can hit some bonkers burst rivalling Mr Killshot. > > > Toss elixir R can revive a whole team + the engineer TWICE on just over a 1min cool down when fully traited. > > > Skelk Venom can heal the entire team for 6k each, that's 30k + original 4k heal on the thief! > > > Signet of courage can heal for over 100k if the team has enough health and doesn't die in the long cast. > > > Epidemic can put 25 stacks of every single condition in the game on up to 5 people, SO BUSTED! > > > > > > All of that stuff isn't really broken because it's just not that effective, the effort and co-ordination to get anywhere close to the best possible benefit is unlikely to happen or be possible in a normal game or it has drawbacks that become apparent in a normal fight. Yet all of that is technically true. > > > > > > It does no-one any good cherry picking arguments and painting best possible scenarios as if it happens all the time, especially when it's on a golem that doesn't fight back, cleanse or dodge. > > > > ^Exactly this. Would deserve +100 thumb ups. > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" Mention mid season lb position might look better so you like to name it like that but in the end you never were even near a rating worth Top 100 title in EU in previous seasons with your Coremesmer when you played in last season and that even with last season the requirement for Top 100 dropped below P3 the first time, means was as low as never before. Yet we are at cherry picking facts in an exaggerating way to make things look more like we want it to look (in day 2 of the season you can be rank 1 with 1500 rating still doesn't rly make you a rank 1 player and still is only p1 rating will not even be Top 100 in the end). I doesn't make sense to mention mid season lb positions at all. Anyway this wasn't even my point. My point was the little hypocrite behavior to bevalue someones arguments for a rating not that far below your own in last season. During you in another post even mentioned 1000 arguments why a lower rating than your skill lvl can easy happen with 4 random players in a low population game with flawed matchmaking since they broke it in s2. During skill/ iq/ experience clearly correlates with gameknowledge/ -understanding, rank does not necessarily. Because the correlation between skill and rank isn't near as strong as it should be anymore for a lot of reasons i don't want to repeat. > > > > > > I don't know what you're trying to get at dude. I played during the end of the season on EU. I also was higher than r60 I just didn't upload the last few games I played cause I ended up going into a huge loss streak and just didn't feel like acknowledging this game's existence anymore. > > I've played with mid to high gold players who skill click, keyboard turn, never dodge, and triple cap home. I'm not going to argue balance decisions with someone who's been hard stuck with THESE types of players for months who insist they know what they're talking about. It is the literal definition of the Dunning Kruger Effect. > > I'm not a hypocrite lmao. You can go into any high rated PvPers stream on NA and ask them, "Hey, do you know someone named Shadowfall? Is he a potato or does he actually know how to play this game?" > > Speaking of being a hypocrite, you LITERALLY just said, "Hey I never see you at high rankings." then go "High rankings don't matter." > > - NEWSFLASH!!!! That's called being a hypocrite. I just mention my rank cause people bring it up or want to doubt me. It's always hilarious that they go invalidate the rank. If you guys think it's so easy to get r1 and r2 titles, then do it! Until then, they are achievements that 99.9% of the GW2 population that has ever existed/will ever exist WILL NEVER get. Why? Because they aren't skilled enough to do so. Wrong! I just said in my last post that you never rly were r60 in EU with your Coremes last season, because midseason lb doesn't mean anything. Also i have your EU acc on my fl i saw your ratings, means doesn't matter what you uploaded and what not. You never reached a rating near worth Top 100 title EU with the Coremes last season. Fact. Just look at your lb postion on a Tuesday evening or wednesday after minimum games requirement increased +15, you can be Top 10 ez with super low rating for these days midseason, not to mention that half of the higher rated ppl only appear on lb at specific times, some only in the end of the season. Means saying you had r60 on lb is useless information, it doesn't mean anything. You had r60 with around1640 rating, that is not even Top 100 in the end of the season though. Just tell your rating points and not your lb rank, lb position during running season only makes sense to use when you try to look higher rated than you actually were. I am not saying anyhting to your real skill lvl just to your rating and how you try to make it look higher than it was for last season. And from this position calling someone out for his rating is hypocrite, understand it or not. Then 2 posts later you complain about being underrated because bad teammates, that is the second hypocrite move, or do you think you are the only one suffering from this? Maybe Leonidrex is also just underrated duo to unlucky matchmaking, just like you? Whatever the truth is, devaluing arguments only based on lb position doesn't make that much sense in general and is also hypocrite when you are not even that much higher ranked currently than him. This can't be too hard to understand. I love how you always tryhard to misunderstand the points other ppl make during you are heavy cherry picking facts and changing arguments the way you need them. Anyway this discussion doesn't lead anywhere, as usual..., and we should stop it or do it with pm because i don't think this has any value for the balance team when we talk about rating from you and Leonidrex. All i said was, the Metabuild for Condimirage doesn't use Signet of Illusion and for that you cannot list double invuln and double mirrors to the rotation, that is simply wrong (that was part of what Leonidrex also told you). Also counting 3 mirrors as if Mirages always can get 3 and even if then still ignore that Mirage can be forced to run through them during f4 is still running (means the mirrors were compeltely useless) or they are stacked at same position so Mirage get effective only one dodge from them or has to disengage and can't pick them up for different reasons makes it also look better than it actually is in ingame reality. Again it looks like you do not rly care for truth, all you seems to care for is trying to make stuff look like you need it to reach a goal you have. Not cool bro! Also not helpful in terms of trying to make this game better balanced/ more skillful. In general: Propaganda and unexplained, unproved rumours (claims) are never helpful. Rumours and Propaganda are the parents of discrimination (from classes and skills/traits), so nothing we want, right? I beg again to stop exaggerate and bend the truth and i mean all of us not only one specific person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > 2. Shatters 1-3 because they all do stupid amounts of damage **or** cc you > > > > > > Stopped reading when you said shatter 1-3 deal stupid ammount of damage, then again 200 damage can be considered stupid, right? > > > > > > > > > > That's a surprising argument to cherry pick for, especially when you are accusing shadow of taking things out of context and claiming that, because of that allegation, people should ignore him. I would advise against throwing stones in glass houses, but you do you though. Up to this point Shadow has been regular in providing at the very least full context screenshots and at the most videos when he says something is busted, so usually researching and testing his claims are very easy. Not that I think he's correct every time he makes a claim but at least he documents what he's talking about. > > > > > > > > > > I'm not on board with magic bullet nerfs because I haven't objectively considered them **yet**, but there is very clearly an **or** there to create a distinction between whether a shatter does damage or CC. His argument is obviously saying that, given all the other things being thrown at you that can do significant damage over a Mesmer's normal rotation, Magic bullet situationally does too much. > > > > > > > > > > Whether or not that is the case is up for debate, but it won't be being touched this iteration anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well if you cherry pick enough you can make a lot of non consequential and ineffective skills appear completely broken. > > > > > > > > Slap Balthazar runes on carrion ele with signet of fire + trait, use it on the packs of golems and you'll see 5 golems die to 1 ability easily, 17k x 5. > > > > Take healing spring, assume everyone blasts it twice each, leaps twice each and it becomes the most broken heal in the game. > > > > Killshot meme is doing 40k to people and they think it's a barrier trait thing but it's not, it always has had this damage add quickness or stealth EZ. > > > > If you align core power shatter perfectly, full zerk, scholar, damage traits on stunned etc you can hit some bonkers burst rivalling Mr Killshot. > > > > Toss elixir R can revive a whole team + the engineer TWICE on just over a 1min cool down when fully traited. > > > > Skelk Venom can heal the entire team for 6k each, that's 30k + original 4k heal on the thief! > > > > Signet of courage can heal for over 100k if the team has enough health and doesn't die in the long cast. > > > > Epidemic can put 25 stacks of every single condition in the game on up to 5 people, SO BUSTED! > > > > > > > > All of that stuff isn't really broken because it's just not that effective, the effort and co-ordination to get anywhere close to the best possible benefit is unlikely to happen or be possible in a normal game or it has drawbacks that become apparent in a normal fight. Yet all of that is technically true. > > > > > > > > It does no-one any good cherry picking arguments and painting best possible scenarios as if it happens all the time, especially when it's on a golem that doesn't fight back, cleanse or dodge. > > > > > > ^Exactly this. Would deserve +100 thumb ups. > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" Mention mid season lb position might look better so you like to name it like that but in the end you never were even near a rating worth Top 100 title in EU in previous seasons with your Coremesmer when you played in last season and that even with last season the requirement for Top 100 dropped below P3 the first time, means was as low as never before. Yet we are at cherry picking facts in an exaggerating way to make things look more like we want it to look (in day 2 of the season you can be rank 1 with 1500 rating still doesn't rly make you a rank 1 player and still is only p1 rating will not even be Top 100 in the end). I doesn't make sense to mention mid season lb positions at all. Anyway this wasn't even my point. My point was the little hypocrite behavior to bevalue someones arguments for a rating not that far below your own in last season. During you in another post even mentioned 1000 arguments why a lower rating than your skill lvl can easy happen with 4 random players in a low population game with flawed matchmaking since they broke it in s2. During skill/ iq/ experience clearly correlates with gameknowledge/ -understanding, rank does not necessarily. Because the correlation between skill and rank isn't near as strong as it should be anymore for a lot of reasons i don't want to repeat. > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you're trying to get at dude. I played during the end of the season on EU. I also was higher than r60 I just didn't upload the last few games I played cause I ended up going into a huge loss streak and just didn't feel like acknowledging this game's existence anymore. > > > > I've played with mid to high gold players who skill click, keyboard turn, never dodge, and triple cap home. I'm not going to argue balance decisions with someone who's been hard stuck with THESE types of players for months who insist they know what they're talking about. It is the literal definition of the Dunning Kruger Effect. > > > > I'm not a hypocrite lmao. You can go into any high rated PvPers stream on NA and ask them, "Hey, do you know someone named Shadowfall? Is he a potato or does he actually know how to play this game?" > > > > Speaking of being a hypocrite, you LITERALLY just said, "Hey I never see you at high rankings." then go "High rankings don't matter." > > > > - NEWSFLASH!!!! That's called being a hypocrite. I just mention my rank cause people bring it up or want to doubt me. It's always hilarious that they go invalidate the rank. If you guys think it's so easy to get r1 and r2 titles, then do it! Until then, they are achievements that 99.9% of the GW2 population that has ever existed/will ever exist WILL NEVER get. Why? Because they aren't skilled enough to do so. > > 1. Wrong! I just said in my last post that you never rly were r60 in EU with your Coremes last season, because midseason lb doesn't mean anything. Also i have your EU acc on my fl i saw your ratings, means doesn't matter what you uploaded and what not. You never reached a rating near worth Top 100 title EU with the Coremes last season. Fact. > 2. Just look at your lb postion on a Tuesday evening or wednesday after minimum games requirement increased +15, you can be Top 10 ez with super low rating for these days midseason, not to mention that half of the higher rated ppl only appear on lb at specific times, some only in the end of the season. Means saying you had r60 on lb is useless information, it doesn't mean anything. You had r60 with around1640 rating, that is not even Top 100 in the end of the season though. Just tell your rating points and not your lb rank, lb position during running season only makes sense to use when you try to look higher rated than you actually were. I am not saying anyhting to your real skill lvl just to your rating and how you try to make it look higher than it was for last season. > > 3. And from this position calling someone out for his rating is hypocrite, understand it or not. Then 2 posts later you complain about being underrated because bad teammates, that is the second hypocrite move, or do you think you are the only one suffering from this? Maybe Leonidrex is also just underrated duo to unlucky matchmaking, just like you? Whatever the truth is, devaluing arguments only based on lb position doesn't make that much sense in general and is also hypocrite when you are not even that much higher ranked currently than him. This can't be too hard to understand. > > 4. I love how you always tryhard to misunderstand the points other ppl make during you are heavy cherry picking facts and changing arguments the way you need them. > > 5. Anyway this discussion doesn't lead anywhere, as usual..., and we should stop it or do it with pm because i don't think this has any value for the balance team when we talk about rating from you and Leonidrex. > > 6. All i said was, the Metabuild for Condimirage doesn't use Signet of Illusion and for that you cannot list double invuln and double mirrors to the rotation, that is simply wrong (that was part of what Leonidrex also told you). > 7. Also counting 3 mirrors as if Mirages always can get 3 and even if then still ignore that Mirage can be forced to run through them during f4 is still running (means the mirrors were compeltely useless) or they are stacked at same position so Mirage get effective only one dodge from them or has to disengage and can't pick them up for different reasons makes it also look better than it actually is in ingame reality. Again it looks like you do not rly care for truth, all you seems to care for is trying to make stuff look like you need it to reach a goal you have. Not cool bro! Also not helpful in terms of trying to make this game better balanced/ more skillful. > > 8. In general: Propaganda and unexplained, unproved rumours (claims) are never helpful. Rumours and Propaganda are the parents of discrimination (from classes and skills/traits), so nothing we want, right? I beg again to stop exaggerate and bend the truth and i mean all of us not only one specific person. 1. [This](https://imgur.com/a/kDS4cmd) is like 3 days before the season ended. My mistake was quing during the weekend when everyone's already maxed out on games and sitting on their rating. I got stuck with AFKers, DCs, and complete bots the following day in multiple 500-50s. Anyways, this is clearly not mid-season nor is it the beginning the season with rating volatility. As I stated previously, I started playing on EU about a week before the season finished. 2. Same as above. If you have functioning eyeballs, you can see that the minimum games required is at 120. 3. I never complained about being underrated lmao. You literally CALLED ME OUT and said, ["Lol @shadowpass.4236 havent seen you any higher than low plat too after a significant amount of games (not just lucky placements)"](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1098832/#Comment_1098832). You were wrong, of course, and admitted it in [this post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1098935/#Comment_1098935). And, since you stated it was the _"first"_ time you've seen me post something higher than low plat 2, the first screenshot I posted should serve as the second one (this time on EU!). 4. I don't cherry pick arguments. Instead, I just post video footage proving people wrong. 5. You started it. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ 6. You can just cancel Mirror before it finishes casting if you want to double reflect. Signet of Illusions is a very strong utility and is perfectly viable to take in place of Arcane Thievery or Signet of Midnight. Either way, Leonidrex claimed that @"rharmy.1970" was, ["describing 3 different variations of mirage"](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1098694/#Comment_1098694) which was completely incorrect as the build I linked checked off all of the boxes. 7. Mirages can _always_ get 3. Don't act like it's difficult to summon clones. **Saying, "Oh but what if the Mirage Mirrors are stacked on top of each other?" is an example of cherry picking.** Thus, you are being hypocritical again. 8. I have not exaggerated anything, nor have I bent the truth. You've done exactly what you've told me not to and (unlike me) cherry pick all of your arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > 1. [This](https://imgur.com/a/kDS4cmd) is like 3 days before the season ended. My mistake was quing during the weekend when everyone's already maxed out on games and sitting on their rating. I got stuck with AFKers, DCs, and complete bots the following day in multiple 500-50s. Anyways, this is clearly not mid-season nor is it the beginning the season with rating volatility. As I stated previously, I started playing on EU about a week before the season finished. > 2. Same as above. If you have functioning eyeballs, you can see that the minimum games required is at 120. > 3. I never complained about being underrated lmao. You literally CALLED ME OUT and said, ["Lol @shadowpass.4236 havent seen you any higher than low plat too after a significant amount of games (not just lucky placements)"](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1098832/#Comment_1098832). You were wrong, of course, and admitted it in [this post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1098935/#Comment_1098935). And, since you stated it was the _"first"_ time you've seen me post something higher than low plat 2, the first screenshot I posted should serve as the second one (this time on EU!). > 4. I don't cherry pick arguments. Instead, I just post video footage proving people wrong. > 5. You started it. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ > 6. You can just cancel Mirror before it finishes casting if you want to double reflect. Signet of Illusions is a very strong utility and is perfectly viable to take in place of Arcane Thievery or Signet of Midnight. Either way, Leonidrex claimed that @"rharmy.1970" was, ["describing 3 different variations of mirage"](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1098694/#Comment_1098694) which was completely incorrect as the build I linked checked off all of the boxes. > 7. Mirages can _always_ get 3. Don't act like it's difficult to summon clones. **Saying, "Oh but what if the Mirage Mirrors are stacked on top of each other?" is an example of cherry picking.** Thus, you are being hypocritical again. > 8. I have not exaggerated anything, nor have I bent the truth. You've done exactly what you've told me not to and (unlike me) cherry pick all of your arguments. 1. Midseason is just a short term for still running season, it doesn't mean start of week 5... holy kitten you rly want to missunderstand lol. The relevant fact is that your highest rating (the one in your pic) was clearly lower than what is needed to get Top 100 title in the end of the season. That it was r62 on that specific day doesn't mean anything. Your r60 you had with even lower rating bit earlier in the season. 2. I didn't call you out i just said i never saw you posting anything above low plat before today. That was absolutely right. Maybe you didn't post that s11 NA rating before or i couldn't see it because it was not posted in the PvP thread or i simply overlooked it. Yes compared to you i admit when i am wrong, that is a big difference between us. Still my point was not your rating in s11 (or what season it was, do not remember exactly but it was long ago) in the first place, my point was that you devalued Leonidrex arguments because of his rating. From a position of being not rly high rated yourself LATELY, it is a hypocrite way of acting and not fair against Leonidrex and his arguments. Also i said that devaluing arguments based on rating doesn't make sense in general, no matter what your or his usual rating is. I don't get how this can be so hard to understand... 3. Ofc you complained about bad teammates were the reasons you lost games and could not reach a higher rating wtf... same could have happened to Leonidrex. Simple. So you named a reason yourself why someone can be lower rated than he should be according to his actual skill lvl on a class. Why even use rating of someone as an argument to devalue his writings then? Or is it only you suffer from bad teammates? 4. Your Coremes videos only proved you wrong, you were remarkable lower rated the whole period of recording and playing during this season with Coremes than what you called (and today screenshotted for me to see it first time) as your normal rating on NA several season ago. And most oneshots you got could be analyzed as pure missplayes and lack of awareness from low skilled players you played against ( even said i start doing a post with analysis when you reach Plat3, sadly that never happend). And that even with being carried by long duration stealth from PU deleting remarkable more counterplay from the oneshot combo than the burstcombo usually has. Your claim about Mantras indeed you could not prove at all. If anything you proved that PU is not a healthy mechanic, what most ppl agreed to anyway (including me). The variant of the build now sees some play doesn't even use Mantra of Distraction and that for the reasons i already listed long before Misha was seen on that build the first time. 5. No i didn't start it, i jumped into a running discussion between you and Leonidrex saying that you do not act fair against Leonidrex when trying to devalue his arguments by using his rating. And i specified that a build that has stealth from SoM and Condiremove from Arcane Thievery doesn't have Signet of Illusion and that the meta build doesn't use SoI in general. The rotation were complained about yet included stealth and SoI what never got used in that combination in any Condimirage meta build and that was also one point Leonidrex made. 6. No clue what you want with that, i never talked about the heal Mirror. I only talked about Mirage mirrors you get from f4 when traited and that double when using Signet of Illusion to reset f4. 7. No they don't always have 3 because f4 is an oh-kitten button, the Mirage doesn't always have the time to create 3 clones when suddently need to use f4. True only is: because Condimirage has a lot of ways to create clones (and the current Mesmer balance makes shattering for dmg unrewarding) they have a good chance to have 3 clones up, but the chance to have 3 clones up when they need f4 is still far away from 100%, Means it clearly is something that reduces the value/ reward of the trait worth mentioning and taken into account (just like the other 3 cases of reduced value i mentioned). You also don't get what cherry picking is it seems. Cherry picking is not: mention all alternatives can happen and have impact on the value of a trait. Cherry picking is: NOT mentioning all possibilities have an impact on the reward of a skilll/ trait to make it look stronger than it actually is. Obvious i think. 8. You did both and i just showed it like 3 times in a row now and once again i am at the point i will stop responding to you because we both spamm a thread with a useless dispute. Feel free to discuss further by pm me but in this thread i am done. At least this you could respect, just as you could have respected that quoting a Mesmer relevant discussion into the Ranger subforum is a senseless request from you. Feel free to make another post as answer to me in this thread if you need to have the last word and want ppl to see it. Otherwise just pm me and we can discuss, i only will answer pms from you now, because i will not spam this thread any further with stuff not relevant for the balance team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 @"bravan.3876" eh sorry I am studying and don't want to read all of that, I don't really care anymore either. have a good day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math.5123 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > > > > > > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > > > > > > > > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay > > > > > > > > lol scepter is not a condi weapon? > > > > Auto chain applies damaging conditions > > > > counter applies damaging conditions > > > > skill 3 does direct damage and applies damaging condition > > > > Nope not a condition weapon. > > > > > > > > Lets compare it to long bow > > > > Auto attack does not apply damaging condition > > > > Rapid fire not a damaging condition > > > > Hunters shot no damaging conditions > > > > Point blank shot no damaging conditions > > > > > > > > I mean i think you see where this is going > > > > No you cant have 5-10k strike damage on a condition weapon > > > > Stop comparing a condition weapon, to power weapon thats not how you win the argument > > > > > > it's not a condi weapon because if you go full condi you going to do very low damage unless you are a mirage doing ambush, it's a weapon of both power and condi, it's more like axe from ranger, i compared it to rapid fire because of similar combo, the multi hits+ cast time, while a full glass cannon ranger will hit for 15k+ damage with 2k range, confusing images with 900 range will hit for like 5k damage even if you go both power and condi, if you go full condi the damage will never pass from 2k. > > > > still a bad comparison imo > > > > > if you go full condi with scepter you can't be sure that you going to do any damage at all because of the low duration from torment and confusion plus you are dependant from your opponent actions > > > > So if we take a full condi ranger and give him a axe what do you think is going to happen? > > The same flaws you just listed with condi scepter. You wont be sure that you are going to do any damage at all because of the low duration of bleeds and unreliable hit box of split blade plus you are depending from your opponents actions to get a melee face full of that spit blade. > > > > Sorry this is not a reason go buff scepter 3 > > Considering scepter is one of mirages or mesmers most used weapons right now in competitive you must be misinformed of its viability. > > maybe is bad for you, but condition damage is supposed to do more damage than power damage, power is burst while condition is over time and can be cleansed so it should do more damage what is not the case of scepter, it does less damage than power even over time. > > condi ranger does bleed damage, if the enemy stay still he going to take the full damage, scepter does confusion if the enemy stay still you do 0 damage that's the difference, so yeah going full condi ranger with axe is viable, while scepter is not. > > yeah everyone pick scepter AS MIRAGE because of the ambush, without ambush it's bad as condi > now if you really compare splitblade with confusing images while splitblade has 6s cd with 3/4s of cast time only, the bleed will do all the damage, while confusing images have a 2+1/4s cast time with 12s cd and you need the enemy to atk to the same damage, if you not near the enemy it's just get canceled if he walk a little, then you have the strafe abusers that make scepter miss even if you are not blinded. > > tell me how scepter is ok without being a mirage? Actually, scepter is the go-to weapon on core Condi mes. It was also the meta on bunker Chrono when that was a thing.> @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > > > All of that stuff isn't really broken because it's just not that effective, the effort and co-ordination to get anywhere close to the best possible benefit is unlikely to happen or be possible in a normal game or it has drawbacks that become apparent in a normal fight. Yet all of that is technically true. > > > It does no-one any good cherry picking arguments and painting best possible scenarios as if it happens all the time, especially when it's on a golem that doesn't fight back, cleanse or dodge. > > > > A fair assessment, but Staff/ Scepter/Pistol [remains meta.](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_CI_But_Without_CI "remains meta. ") For general use, there is significant consensus that the build performs very strongly. The numbers may or may not be correct depending on what claim you pull from, but not every claim of certain synergies requires the stars to align or requires someone to run an otherwise glassy, ineffectual build. We're talking about (at least mostly, in this thread from what I can tell) a build that has very heavy power scaling in conquest, and can put heavy, if not twenty, bleeding stacks on you with Sharper Images/Magic Bullet synergy. > > > > We can talk about Axe not doing 24 stacks of torment or what have you all day, but hyperbole aside, the strength of the build above for general matchup use has been established. If information is incorrect, say so; but as a general rule for people arguing vs the nerfs being pushed this patch, don't use inconsistencies as a ticket to discredit the entire claim or dodge it when a point is being made. > > > > Again what I meet everyday on plat2 EU is mesmer running coreburst or powermirage. > Furthermore, there is less and less condi mirage on mAt. > So saying Staff/scepter,pistol remain meta seems a little inacurrate currently IMO and will probably be finished next patch. Was streaming p2 last night. Most, if not every single game had at least two Condi mirages in it. I'll count them even I get back from work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 > @"viquing.8254" said: > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay > > You can also compare it to nec axe. Btw on zerk gear mesmer confusing images hit way less than rapide fire, ghastly claws, photon blitz, scepter ele or whatever other similar canalysed skills. > But you know when this damage was on pair with other similar skills, plebs who didn't get used to mesmer doing same damage for same gear as them, over cry on this forum about how op it was. Thats not a condi weapon either lol How are you plat 2 and making these comparisons What you can compare it to is necro scepter which is a condi weapon it also use to have insane power scaling and mods on its 3 skill which with enough conditions on a target could slap for 11k guess what happened to that. It got removed because its a condi weapon. The same thing happened mesmers scepter deal with it. There is 0 reason why that weapons power scaling should be buffed again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > > > > > > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > > > > > > > > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay > > > > > > > > lol scepter is not a condi weapon? > > > > Auto chain applies damaging conditions > > > > counter applies damaging conditions > > > > skill 3 does direct damage and applies damaging condition > > > > Nope not a condition weapon. > > > > > > > > Lets compare it to long bow > > > > Auto attack does not apply damaging condition > > > > Rapid fire not a damaging condition > > > > Hunters shot no damaging conditions > > > > Point blank shot no damaging conditions > > > > > > > > I mean i think you see where this is going > > > > No you cant have 5-10k strike damage on a condition weapon > > > > Stop comparing a condition weapon, to power weapon thats not how you win the argument > > > > > > it's not a condi weapon because if you go full condi you going to do very low damage unless you are a mirage doing ambush, it's a weapon of both power and condi, it's more like axe from ranger, i compared it to rapid fire because of similar combo, the multi hits+ cast time, while a full glass cannon ranger will hit for 15k+ damage with 2k range, confusing images with 900 range will hit for like 5k damage even if you go both power and condi, if you go full condi the damage will never pass from 2k. > > > > still a bad comparison imo > > > > > if you go full condi with scepter you can't be sure that you going to do any damage at all because of the low duration from torment and confusion plus you are dependant from your opponent actions > > > > So if we take a full condi ranger and give him a axe what do you think is going to happen? > > The same flaws you just listed with condi scepter. You wont be sure that you are going to do any damage at all because of the low duration of bleeds and unreliable hit box of split blade plus you are depending from your opponents actions to get a melee face full of that spit blade. > > > > Sorry this is not a reason go buff scepter 3 > > Considering scepter is one of mirages or mesmers most used weapons right now in competitive you must be misinformed of its viability. > > maybe is bad for you, but condition damage is supposed to do more damage than power damage, power is burst while condition is over time and can be cleansed so it should do more damage what is not the case of scepter, it does less damage than power even over time. You didnt completely answer this statement Yes condition damage is suppose to do more damage than power damage how ever its suppose to do it over time assuming you get your peek ramp achieved other wise no its not suppose to do more damage than a power burst and certainly not in the same amount of time. Power burst are made to litterally do damage immidately vs condition which is damage over time. Any time condition burst start to match or exceed power burst then there is an issue. Thats why conditions stacks were culled the first time and thats why its likely going to happen again soon. Because too many classes ramp conditions at such a speed that its basically acting like power damage burst which should not be happening. Its people who dont understand these concepts and keep calling for condi power creep to the game. > > condi ranger does bleed damage, if the enemy stay still he going to take the full damage, scepter does confusion if the enemy stay still you do 0 damage that's the difference, so yeah going full condi ranger with axe is viable, while scepter is not. Except no one is going to stand still and not do anything while fighting a mesmer even if they did you have full advantage to do as you please realistically your claim here is not something that actually happens. > > tell me how scepter is ok without being a mirage? scepter has been a weapon used for a long time by core mesmers and bunker chronos the block in itself does a heafty chunk of power damage while inflicting a big chunk of torment why are you trying to down play scepter like its the worst weapon in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay > > > > > > > > > > lol scepter is not a condi weapon? > > > > > Auto chain applies damaging conditions > > > > > counter applies damaging conditions > > > > > skill 3 does direct damage and applies damaging condition > > > > > Nope not a condition weapon. > > > > > > > > > > Lets compare it to long bow > > > > > Auto attack does not apply damaging condition > > > > > Rapid fire not a damaging condition > > > > > Hunters shot no damaging conditions > > > > > Point blank shot no damaging conditions > > > > > > > > > > I mean i think you see where this is going > > > > > No you cant have 5-10k strike damage on a condition weapon > > > > > Stop comparing a condition weapon, to power weapon thats not how you win the argument > > > > > > > > it's not a condi weapon because if you go full condi you going to do very low damage unless you are a mirage doing ambush, it's a weapon of both power and condi, it's more like axe from ranger, i compared it to rapid fire because of similar combo, the multi hits+ cast time, while a full glass cannon ranger will hit for 15k+ damage with 2k range, confusing images with 900 range will hit for like 5k damage even if you go both power and condi, if you go full condi the damage will never pass from 2k. > > > > > > still a bad comparison imo > > > > > > > if you go full condi with scepter you can't be sure that you going to do any damage at all because of the low duration from torment and confusion plus you are dependant from your opponent actions > > > > > > So if we take a full condi ranger and give him a axe what do you think is going to happen? > > > The same flaws you just listed with condi scepter. You wont be sure that you are going to do any damage at all because of the low duration of bleeds and unreliable hit box of split blade plus you are depending from your opponents actions to get a melee face full of that spit blade. > > > > > > Sorry this is not a reason go buff scepter 3 > > > Considering scepter is one of mirages or mesmers most used weapons right now in competitive you must be misinformed of its viability. > > > > maybe is bad for you, but condition damage is supposed to do more damage than power damage, power is burst while condition is over time and can be cleansed so it should do more damage what is not the case of scepter, it does less damage than power even over time. > > You didnt completely answer this statement > Yes condition damage is suppose to do more damage than power damage how ever its suppose to do it over time assuming you get your peek ramp achieved other wise no its not suppose to do more damage than a power burst and certainly not in the same amount of time. Power burst are made to litterally do damage immidately vs condition which is damage over time. Any time condition burst start to match or exceed power burst then there is an issue. Thats why conditions stacks were culled the first time and thats why its likely going to happen again soon. Because too many classes ramp conditions at such a speed that its basically acting like power damage burst which should not be happening. > > Its people who dont understand the concept of things and keep calling for condi power creep to the game. > > > > condi ranger does bleed damage, if the enemy stay still he going to take the full damage, scepter does confusion if the enemy stay still you do 0 damage that's the difference, so yeah going full condi ranger with axe is viable, while scepter is not. > > Except no one is going to stand still and not do anything while fighting a mesmer even if they did you have full advantage to do as you please realistically you claim here is not something that actually happens. > > > > tell me how scepter is ok without being a mirage? > > scepter has been a weapon used for a long time by core mesmers and bunker chronos the block in itself does a heafty chunk of power damage while inflicting a big chunk of torment why are you trying to down play scepter like its the worst weapon in the game. > the question is about the full damage that skill can do, lets say thats only a condi weapon like you are trying to imply, then you pick a rabid amulet, the skill has a 2s cast time what is really big and make a big difference in dps, then for some reason the enemy get hit by all hits and get 7 stacks of confusion, then you need the enemy to atk to get damage, lets say he dont cleanse it and spam mindless, now you have the factor on what weapon the enemy is using most weapons have the medium cast time of 3/4s lets say that he use 3 skills, he will receive ONLY 3k damage-5k at max for a 2s cast skill, while any other class with channelized skill will hit for 10k-15k with no chance to clean it. BUT this is a perfect scenario, the enemy will clean it, will just wait for the condition time expire or he will just do 2 skills at max doing very low damage for a 2s cast. Now to the weapon do some damage you are forced to go "glass cannon" and pick both power and condi to deal a medium damage so you are more like a glass pistol because of the low damage and huge cast time. what you have on scepter? only the block and confusing images to deal damage, but they are removing the clones generation from block and that was a trade off for the low damage, now you dont have clones for defense neither the damage, just because mirage ambushes, in the end you nerfed mesmers and chronos not mirage, you have a "condi weapon" that do less damage than a power weapon even over time. so they should up the confusing images damage or giver more stacks of confusion or just lower the cast time, so mesmers can get in the rank of other classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay > > > > > > > > > > > > lol scepter is not a condi weapon? > > > > > > Auto chain applies damaging conditions > > > > > > counter applies damaging conditions > > > > > > skill 3 does direct damage and applies damaging condition > > > > > > Nope not a condition weapon. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets compare it to long bow > > > > > > Auto attack does not apply damaging condition > > > > > > Rapid fire not a damaging condition > > > > > > Hunters shot no damaging conditions > > > > > > Point blank shot no damaging conditions > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean i think you see where this is going > > > > > > No you cant have 5-10k strike damage on a condition weapon > > > > > > Stop comparing a condition weapon, to power weapon thats not how you win the argument > > > > > > > > > > it's not a condi weapon because if you go full condi you going to do very low damage unless you are a mirage doing ambush, it's a weapon of both power and condi, it's more like axe from ranger, i compared it to rapid fire because of similar combo, the multi hits+ cast time, while a full glass cannon ranger will hit for 15k+ damage with 2k range, confusing images with 900 range will hit for like 5k damage even if you go both power and condi, if you go full condi the damage will never pass from 2k. > > > > > > > > still a bad comparison imo > > > > > > > > > if you go full condi with scepter you can't be sure that you going to do any damage at all because of the low duration from torment and confusion plus you are dependant from your opponent actions > > > > > > > > So if we take a full condi ranger and give him a axe what do you think is going to happen? > > > > The same flaws you just listed with condi scepter. You wont be sure that you are going to do any damage at all because of the low duration of bleeds and unreliable hit box of split blade plus you are depending from your opponents actions to get a melee face full of that spit blade. > > > > > > > > Sorry this is not a reason go buff scepter 3 > > > > Considering scepter is one of mirages or mesmers most used weapons right now in competitive you must be misinformed of its viability. > > > > > > maybe is bad for you, but condition damage is supposed to do more damage than power damage, power is burst while condition is over time and can be cleansed so it should do more damage what is not the case of scepter, it does less damage than power even over time. > > > > You didnt completely answer this statement > > Yes condition damage is suppose to do more damage than power damage how ever its suppose to do it over time assuming you get your peek ramp achieved other wise no its not suppose to do more damage than a power burst and certainly not in the same amount of time. Power burst are made to litterally do damage immidately vs condition which is damage over time. Any time condition burst start to match or exceed power burst then there is an issue. Thats why conditions stacks were culled the first time and thats why its likely going to happen again soon. Because too many classes ramp conditions at such a speed that its basically acting like power damage burst which should not be happening. > > > > Its people who dont understand the concept of things and keep calling for condi power creep to the game. > > > > > > condi ranger does bleed damage, if the enemy stay still he going to take the full damage, scepter does confusion if the enemy stay still you do 0 damage that's the difference, so yeah going full condi ranger with axe is viable, while scepter is not. > > > > Except no one is going to stand still and not do anything while fighting a mesmer even if they did you have full advantage to do as you please realistically you claim here is not something that actually happens. > > > > > > tell me how scepter is ok without being a mirage? > > > > scepter has been a weapon used for a long time by core mesmers and bunker chronos the block in itself does a heafty chunk of power damage while inflicting a big chunk of torment why are you trying to down play scepter like its the worst weapon in the game. > > > > the question is about the full damage that skill can do, lets say thats only a condi weapon like you are trying to imply, then you pick a rabid amulet, the skill has a 2s cast time what is really big and make a big difference in dps, then for some reason the enemy get hit by all hits and get 7 stacks of confusion, then you need the enemy to atk to get damage, lets say he dont cleanse it and spam mindless, now you have the factor on what weapon the enemy is using most weapons have the medium cast time of 3/4s lets say that he use 3 skills, he will receive ONLY 3k damage-5k at max for a 2s cast skill, while any other class with channelized skill will hit for 10k-15k with no chance to clean it. ok but if we look at power damage and lets say the player chooses to cc the attacker or just dodge and evade or go invuln then the power burst also does 0 damage like your claims are faulty and based on situations that you cant say without a doubt will always happen. 1 confusion is not your only source of damage 2 most players will likely not stop attacking just because you land confusion on them 3 if condi ramp didnt kill so quickly people wouldn't take as many mindless clears in their kits 4 your argument going int to cast times gets kind of pointless but ill humor it 5 if you look at other channeled power burst skills thats when you are suppose to dodge or something to that nature which also voids the damage completely. No matter how you spin this i wont ever agree that condi damage should do the same amount of damage as a power burst in the same time frame. Ideally for condi to exceed power damage you need to land conditions from multiple skills not just 1 skill so that your condition ramp meets its peek. A single skill should not have the potential to get you this. This is also why condition builds generally have more sustain than power builds but when condition builds start reaching the potency of power burst while keeping the sustain as they needed for much longer time for the conditions to kill thats a problem. This is part of why people complain about condi weaver as well. Its burns kill extremely quickly if they land making it more akin to power burst not condi burst but it has the sustain in its utility and weapon kit as if it needed tons of extra time for the conditions to tick for long periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clzwalter.5986 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Fix the F**** match making, why legends and plat 3,2 vs gold+.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeikeNz.3526 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol scepter is not a condi weapon? > > > > > > > Auto chain applies damaging conditions > > > > > > > counter applies damaging conditions > > > > > > > skill 3 does direct damage and applies damaging condition > > > > > > > Nope not a condition weapon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets compare it to long bow > > > > > > > Auto attack does not apply damaging condition > > > > > > > Rapid fire not a damaging condition > > > > > > > Hunters shot no damaging conditions > > > > > > > Point blank shot no damaging conditions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean i think you see where this is going > > > > > > > No you cant have 5-10k strike damage on a condition weapon > > > > > > > Stop comparing a condition weapon, to power weapon thats not how you win the argument > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not a condi weapon because if you go full condi you going to do very low damage unless you are a mirage doing ambush, it's a weapon of both power and condi, it's more like axe from ranger, i compared it to rapid fire because of similar combo, the multi hits+ cast time, while a full glass cannon ranger will hit for 15k+ damage with 2k range, confusing images with 900 range will hit for like 5k damage even if you go both power and condi, if you go full condi the damage will never pass from 2k. > > > > > > > > > > still a bad comparison imo > > > > > > > > > > > if you go full condi with scepter you can't be sure that you going to do any damage at all because of the low duration from torment and confusion plus you are dependant from your opponent actions > > > > > > > > > > So if we take a full condi ranger and give him a axe what do you think is going to happen? > > > > > The same flaws you just listed with condi scepter. You wont be sure that you are going to do any damage at all because of the low duration of bleeds and unreliable hit box of split blade plus you are depending from your opponents actions to get a melee face full of that spit blade. > > > > > > > > > > Sorry this is not a reason go buff scepter 3 > > > > > Considering scepter is one of mirages or mesmers most used weapons right now in competitive you must be misinformed of its viability. > > > > > > > > maybe is bad for you, but condition damage is supposed to do more damage than power damage, power is burst while condition is over time and can be cleansed so it should do more damage what is not the case of scepter, it does less damage than power even over time. > > > > > > You didnt completely answer this statement > > > Yes condition damage is suppose to do more damage than power damage how ever its suppose to do it over time assuming you get your peek ramp achieved other wise no its not suppose to do more damage than a power burst and certainly not in the same amount of time. Power burst are made to litterally do damage immidately vs condition which is damage over time. Any time condition burst start to match or exceed power burst then there is an issue. Thats why conditions stacks were culled the first time and thats why its likely going to happen again soon. Because too many classes ramp conditions at such a speed that its basically acting like power damage burst which should not be happening. > > > > > > Its people who dont understand the concept of things and keep calling for condi power creep to the game. > > > > > > > > condi ranger does bleed damage, if the enemy stay still he going to take the full damage, scepter does confusion if the enemy stay still you do 0 damage that's the difference, so yeah going full condi ranger with axe is viable, while scepter is not. > > > > > > Except no one is going to stand still and not do anything while fighting a mesmer even if they did you have full advantage to do as you please realistically you claim here is not something that actually happens. > > > > > > > > tell me how scepter is ok without being a mirage? > > > > > > scepter has been a weapon used for a long time by core mesmers and bunker chronos the block in itself does a heafty chunk of power damage while inflicting a big chunk of torment why are you trying to down play scepter like its the worst weapon in the game. > > > > > > > the question is about the full damage that skill can do, lets say thats only a condi weapon like you are trying to imply, then you pick a rabid amulet, the skill has a 2s cast time what is really big and make a big difference in dps, then for some reason the enemy get hit by all hits and get 7 stacks of confusion, then you need the enemy to atk to get damage, lets say he dont cleanse it and spam mindless, now you have the factor on what weapon the enemy is using most weapons have the medium cast time of 3/4s lets say that he use 3 skills, he will receive ONLY 3k damage-5k at max for a 2s cast skill, while any other class with channelized skill will hit for 10k-15k with no chance to clean it. > > ok but if we look at power damage and lets say the player chooses to cc the attacker or just dodge and evade or go invuln then the power burst also does 0 damage like your claims are faulty and based on situations that you cant say without a doubt will always happen. > > 1 confusion is not your only source of damage > 2 most players will likely not stop attacking just because you land confusion on them > 3 if condi ramp didnt kill so quickly people wouldn't take as many mindless clears in their kits > 4 your argument going int to cast times gets kind of pointless but ill humor it > 5 if you look at other channeled power burst skills thats when you are suppose to dodge or something to that nature which also voids the damage completely. > > No matter how you spin this i wont ever agree that condi damage should do the same amount of damage as a power burst in the same time frame. Ideally for condi to exceed power damage you need to land conditions from multiple skills not just 1 skill so that your condition ramp meets its peek. A single skill should not have the potential to get you this. > > This is also why condition builds generally have more sustain than power builds but when condition builds start reaching the potency of power burst while keeping the sustain as they needed for much longer time for the conditions to kill thats a problem. This is part of why people complain about condi weaver as well. > > Its burns kill extremely quickly if they land making it more akin to power burst not condi burst but it has the sustain in its utility and weapon kit as if it needed tons of extra time for the conditions to tick for long periods. im don't want to condi do the same burst damage of power, i want to the power from confusing images do the same burst of other power weapons based on the cast time. the burst that it does now is based on cast time that it's supposed to be a 1 1/2s cast time at max, not 2 1/4s, the 2s cast is from pve damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol scepter is not a condi weapon? > > > > > > > > Auto chain applies damaging conditions > > > > > > > > counter applies damaging conditions > > > > > > > > skill 3 does direct damage and applies damaging condition > > > > > > > > Nope not a condition weapon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets compare it to long bow > > > > > > > > Auto attack does not apply damaging condition > > > > > > > > Rapid fire not a damaging condition > > > > > > > > Hunters shot no damaging conditions > > > > > > > > Point blank shot no damaging conditions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean i think you see where this is going > > > > > > > > No you cant have 5-10k strike damage on a condition weapon > > > > > > > > Stop comparing a condition weapon, to power weapon thats not how you win the argument > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not a condi weapon because if you go full condi you going to do very low damage unless you are a mirage doing ambush, it's a weapon of both power and condi, it's more like axe from ranger, i compared it to rapid fire because of similar combo, the multi hits+ cast time, while a full glass cannon ranger will hit for 15k+ damage with 2k range, confusing images with 900 range will hit for like 5k damage even if you go both power and condi, if you go full condi the damage will never pass from 2k. > > > > > > > > > > > > still a bad comparison imo > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you go full condi with scepter you can't be sure that you going to do any damage at all because of the low duration from torment and confusion plus you are dependant from your opponent actions > > > > > > > > > > > > So if we take a full condi ranger and give him a axe what do you think is going to happen? > > > > > > The same flaws you just listed with condi scepter. You wont be sure that you are going to do any damage at all because of the low duration of bleeds and unreliable hit box of split blade plus you are depending from your opponents actions to get a melee face full of that spit blade. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry this is not a reason go buff scepter 3 > > > > > > Considering scepter is one of mirages or mesmers most used weapons right now in competitive you must be misinformed of its viability. > > > > > > > > > > maybe is bad for you, but condition damage is supposed to do more damage than power damage, power is burst while condition is over time and can be cleansed so it should do more damage what is not the case of scepter, it does less damage than power even over time. > > > > > > > > You didnt completely answer this statement > > > > Yes condition damage is suppose to do more damage than power damage how ever its suppose to do it over time assuming you get your peek ramp achieved other wise no its not suppose to do more damage than a power burst and certainly not in the same amount of time. Power burst are made to litterally do damage immidately vs condition which is damage over time. Any time condition burst start to match or exceed power burst then there is an issue. Thats why conditions stacks were culled the first time and thats why its likely going to happen again soon. Because too many classes ramp conditions at such a speed that its basically acting like power damage burst which should not be happening. > > > > > > > > Its people who dont understand the concept of things and keep calling for condi power creep to the game. > > > > > > > > > > condi ranger does bleed damage, if the enemy stay still he going to take the full damage, scepter does confusion if the enemy stay still you do 0 damage that's the difference, so yeah going full condi ranger with axe is viable, while scepter is not. > > > > > > > > Except no one is going to stand still and not do anything while fighting a mesmer even if they did you have full advantage to do as you please realistically you claim here is not something that actually happens. > > > > > > > > > > tell me how scepter is ok without being a mirage? > > > > > > > > scepter has been a weapon used for a long time by core mesmers and bunker chronos the block in itself does a heafty chunk of power damage while inflicting a big chunk of torment why are you trying to down play scepter like its the worst weapon in the game. > > > > > > > > > > the question is about the full damage that skill can do, lets say thats only a condi weapon like you are trying to imply, then you pick a rabid amulet, the skill has a 2s cast time what is really big and make a big difference in dps, then for some reason the enemy get hit by all hits and get 7 stacks of confusion, then you need the enemy to atk to get damage, lets say he dont cleanse it and spam mindless, now you have the factor on what weapon the enemy is using most weapons have the medium cast time of 3/4s lets say that he use 3 skills, he will receive ONLY 3k damage-5k at max for a 2s cast skill, while any other class with channelized skill will hit for 10k-15k with no chance to clean it. > > > > ok but if we look at power damage and lets say the player chooses to cc the attacker or just dodge and evade or go invuln then the power burst also does 0 damage like your claims are faulty and based on situations that you cant say without a doubt will always happen. > > > > 1 confusion is not your only source of damage > > 2 most players will likely not stop attacking just because you land confusion on them > > 3 if condi ramp didnt kill so quickly people wouldn't take as many mindless clears in their kits > > 4 your argument going int to cast times gets kind of pointless but ill humor it > > 5 if you look at other channeled power burst skills thats when you are suppose to dodge or something to that nature which also voids the damage completely. > > > > No matter how you spin this i wont ever agree that condi damage should do the same amount of damage as a power burst in the same time frame. Ideally for condi to exceed power damage you need to land conditions from multiple skills not just 1 skill so that your condition ramp meets its peek. A single skill should not have the potential to get you this. > > > > This is also why condition builds generally have more sustain than power builds but when condition builds start reaching the potency of power burst while keeping the sustain as they needed for much longer time for the conditions to kill thats a problem. This is part of why people complain about condi weaver as well. > > > > Its burns kill extremely quickly if they land making it more akin to power burst not condi burst but it has the sustain in its utility and weapon kit as if it needed tons of extra time for the conditions to tick for long periods. > > im don't want to condi do the same burst damage of power, i want to the power from confusing images do the same burst of other power weapons based on the cast time. > the burst that it does now is based on cast time that it's supposed to be a 1 1/2s cast time at max, not 2 1/4s, the 2s cast is from pve damage Its not a power weapon though if anything i would ask for swords damage to be improved and give back the old off hand sword swordsman who use to do the 1 tap fencing stab attack for like 6k or more i freaking loved that phantom :C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > if they going to nerf llusionary Counter they should at least buff confusing images to deal the same dmg of pve, 2+1/4s to deal 2k dmg is really a joke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 5-10k damage on a condi weapon is also a joke sorry can we not revert that change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not really a condi weapon because you going to do low damage if you go full condi, if you go both power and condi even at pve with the full dmg the dps is bad, now on pvp people can just dodge or interrupt, you going to waste 2+1/4s cast to deal like 1k damage so yeah it's a joke, you can compare it to ranger rapid fire, while a rapid fire would crit you for 15k+ damage from 2k range, with mesmers even if you go class cannon power+condi you never going to deal more than 5k with confusing images, actually all the mesmer weapons are bad right now only mirage is viable because of infinite horizon ambush, even if i want and agree with the nerf because of the passive gameplay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > lol scepter is not a condi weapon? > > > > > > > > > Auto chain applies damaging conditions > > > > > > > > > counter applies damaging conditions > > > > > > > > > skill 3 does direct damage and applies damaging condition > > > > > > > > > Nope not a condition weapon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets compare it to long bow > > > > > > > > > Auto attack does not apply damaging condition > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire not a damaging condition > > > > > > > > > Hunters shot no damaging conditions > > > > > > > > > Point blank shot no damaging conditions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean i think you see where this is going > > > > > > > > > No you cant have 5-10k strike damage on a condition weapon > > > > > > > > > Stop comparing a condition weapon, to power weapon thats not how you win the argument > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not a condi weapon because if you go full condi you going to do very low damage unless you are a mirage doing ambush, it's a weapon of both power and condi, it's more like axe from ranger, i compared it to rapid fire because of similar combo, the multi hits+ cast time, while a full glass cannon ranger will hit for 15k+ damage with 2k range, confusing images with 900 range will hit for like 5k damage even if you go both power and condi, if you go full condi the damage will never pass from 2k. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still a bad comparison imo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if you go full condi with scepter you can't be sure that you going to do any damage at all because of the low duration from torment and confusion plus you are dependant from your opponent actions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if we take a full condi ranger and give him a axe what do you think is going to happen? > > > > > > > The same flaws you just listed with condi scepter. You wont be sure that you are going to do any damage at all because of the low duration of bleeds and unreliable hit box of split blade plus you are depending from your opponents actions to get a melee face full of that spit blade. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry this is not a reason go buff scepter 3 > > > > > > > Considering scepter is one of mirages or mesmers most used weapons right now in competitive you must be misinformed of its viability. > > > > > > > > > > > > maybe is bad for you, but condition damage is supposed to do more damage than power damage, power is burst while condition is over time and can be cleansed so it should do more damage what is not the case of scepter, it does less damage than power even over time. > > > > > > > > > > You didnt completely answer this statement > > > > > Yes condition damage is suppose to do more damage than power damage how ever its suppose to do it over time assuming you get your peek ramp achieved other wise no its not suppose to do more damage than a power burst and certainly not in the same amount of time. Power burst are made to litterally do damage immidately vs condition which is damage over time. Any time condition burst start to match or exceed power burst then there is an issue. Thats why conditions stacks were culled the first time and thats why its likely going to happen again soon. Because too many classes ramp conditions at such a speed that its basically acting like power damage burst which should not be happening. > > > > > > > > > > Its people who dont understand the concept of things and keep calling for condi power creep to the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > condi ranger does bleed damage, if the enemy stay still he going to take the full damage, scepter does confusion if the enemy stay still you do 0 damage that's the difference, so yeah going full condi ranger with axe is viable, while scepter is not. > > > > > > > > > > Except no one is going to stand still and not do anything while fighting a mesmer even if they did you have full advantage to do as you please realistically you claim here is not something that actually happens. > > > > > > > > > > > > tell me how scepter is ok without being a mirage? > > > > > > > > > > scepter has been a weapon used for a long time by core mesmers and bunker chronos the block in itself does a heafty chunk of power damage while inflicting a big chunk of torment why are you trying to down play scepter like its the worst weapon in the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > the question is about the full damage that skill can do, lets say thats only a condi weapon like you are trying to imply, then you pick a rabid amulet, the skill has a 2s cast time what is really big and make a big difference in dps, then for some reason the enemy get hit by all hits and get 7 stacks of confusion, then you need the enemy to atk to get damage, lets say he dont cleanse it and spam mindless, now you have the factor on what weapon the enemy is using most weapons have the medium cast time of 3/4s lets say that he use 3 skills, he will receive ONLY 3k damage-5k at max for a 2s cast skill, while any other class with channelized skill will hit for 10k-15k with no chance to clean it. > > > > > > ok but if we look at power damage and lets say the player chooses to cc the attacker or just dodge and evade or go invuln then the power burst also does 0 damage like your claims are faulty and based on situations that you cant say without a doubt will always happen. > > > > > > 1 confusion is not your only source of damage > > > 2 most players will likely not stop attacking just because you land confusion on them > > > 3 if condi ramp didnt kill so quickly people wouldn't take as many mindless clears in their kits > > > 4 your argument going int to cast times gets kind of pointless but ill humor it > > > 5 if you look at other channeled power burst skills thats when you are suppose to dodge or something to that nature which also voids the damage completely. > > > > > > No matter how you spin this i wont ever agree that condi damage should do the same amount of damage as a power burst in the same time frame. Ideally for condi to exceed power damage you need to land conditions from multiple skills not just 1 skill so that your condition ramp meets its peek. A single skill should not have the potential to get you this. > > > > > > This is also why condition builds generally have more sustain than power builds but when condition builds start reaching the potency of power burst while keeping the sustain as they needed for much longer time for the conditions to kill thats a problem. This is part of why people complain about condi weaver as well. > > > > > > Its burns kill extremely quickly if they land making it more akin to power burst not condi burst but it has the sustain in its utility and weapon kit as if it needed tons of extra time for the conditions to tick for long periods. > > > > im don't want to condi do the same burst damage of power, i want to the power from confusing images do the same burst of other power weapons based on the cast time. > > the burst that it does now is based on cast time that it's supposed to be a 1 1/2s cast time at max, not 2 1/4s, the 2s cast is from pve damage > > Its not a power weapon though if anything i would ask for swords damage to be improved and give back the old off hand sword swordsman who use to do the 1 tap fencing stab attack for like 6k or more i freaking loved that phantom :C What he means to say is that reaper will channel ghastly claws, and deal 10k dmg. ( 1,75s channel, even less with quickness ) You will channel confusing images ( 2,25s channel it lts longer + less quickness uptime ) confusion will last ¬6,5s if not cleansed. The point he is trying to make is that reaper with 1-1,75s channel will deal 10k dmg instantly, while you channel for 2,25s then wait 6,5s for enemy to spam skills. and end up dealing LESS damage. So 1,75s -> 10k dmg. 2,25s + 6,5s = 8,75s -> 6k dmg. Hopefully its clear what he means now, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now