SWI.4127 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > I dont think it needs to be gutted. I think full counter needs to be gutted. Having 1 min of invl is not ok. The problem with that is the entire elite spec basically is just "full counter". What I mean by that is it's not just one OP skill, it's the entire profession mechanic. If you completely gut it, then the spec is going to be useless. I mentioned this in another thread, it's gonna be really difficult for anet to properly balance it without killing the spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 > @Hitman.5829 said: > > @Choppy.4183 said: > > > @Hitman.5829 said: > > > > @zealex.9410 said: > > > > Specifically i dont believe if its gonna be nerfed (which im positive it will) that it should be on its kit and abilities. > > > > > > > > Imo it should rather be hit on trait that make particular playstyles too strong. But again not gutted either. > > > > > > > > Take this with a grain of salt, im not a warr main and i wont pretend ik exactly how the whole fulcounter tank like builds work but i dont believe every trait and build setup the class has should be gutted just because a particular one overperforms. Much like with mirage (my main) i wouldnt like to see my power build gutted because they didnt aproach the condi build with more care (which i find abit sily atm). > > > > > > > > With that being said a small cd increase on counter ( a sec or 2 wouldnt hurt anyone :3 ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are the typical mesmer spammer that presses all buttons in hopes of melting down warrior in 1.5 seconds. Learn to play and stop spamming your skills! Full counter activates on hit, so be smart and don't hit it. SIMPLE! > > > An increase in cooldown will only lead to warrior getting spammed with skills, Full counter is the anti-spam that warrior needed. > > > > On what basis do you conclude he's a "typical mesmer spammer"? His comment was reasonable and respectful, and he didn't even really complain about Full Counter. All he's called for is for people screaming for nerfs to cool their jets, and that any nerfs that do come should be surgical. > > He is asking for an increase in cooldown of Full Counter. > Warrior is a melee class, if you have played warrior you know how annoying it is to be spammed with skills from 1200 range; by the time you get to the attacker, you are 1/2 health and you have used most of your mobility skills and stances. An increase in cooldown will only lead to the spellbreaker being useless because the whole SP specialization revolves around this burst. I actually play power interupt mirage with sword torch/ sword pistol, i dont really range that much. But ye ive even talked with warr mains which they would be somewhat ok with a tiny increase in fc cd ( in the range of 1-2) cd, not 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 For point of reference u could also see this vid to kinda see where im coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Let them gut it. Worst case scenario they hit it too hard, most people shelve their warriors and the excellent players will adapt, just like they did with thieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwaihir.1745 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Nerf incoming and welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > Let them gut it. > > Worst case scenario they hit it too hard, most people shelve their warriors and the excellent players will adapt, just like they did with thieves. Just like the excelent rev played back in the day adapted? All 6 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 > @zealex.9410 said: > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > Let them gut it. > > > > Worst case scenario they hit it too hard, most people shelve their warriors and the excellent players will adapt, just like they did with thieves. > > Just like the excelent rev played back in the day adapted? All 6 of them. Yep, just like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButterPeanut.9746 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I don't see them nerfing FC by increasing the coodlown, but they definitely could via other methods. Maybe don't allow other burst skills to be refreshed by FC? The reason being is that it is a burst skill, and all burst skills share the 8s cooldown. Would be strange to simply change the cooldown on one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 I was rather curious. The biggest problem alot of ppl have is that anything procs fc and you can be punished even if you didnt proc it. So a guy suggested make it so that fc deals single target dmg. In an increased range to the enemy that procs it. That way the retard necro aa with scepter will get what he deserves and i wont get hit for 7k even tho i stowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > I dont think it needs to be gutted. I think full counter needs to be gutted. Having 1 min of invl is not ok. > > The problem with that is the entire elite spec basically is just "full counter". What I mean by that is it's not just one OP skill, it's the entire profession mechanic. If you completely gut it, then the spec is going to be useless. I mentioned this in another thread, it's gonna be really difficult for anet to properly balance it without killing the spec. They can revert our adren bursting back to level 3 and make some adjustments to lower the counter dmg ( i do see most warris Only using counter spam ) and upp the cd a bit since burst dmg will be back up there again. Do want to add i do think that counter is easily baited and can be easily avoided if people pay attention and dont mindlessly spamm,as ive done myself and see guildies doing it properly aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiranslee.4829 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Why would FC dmg be nerfed ? It is mid range dps skill that ONLY activates when you hit war. Think about for example , scepter ele. Properly used ele can do insta kill rotation without any need of opposite player to do anything. Is that op ? I would say no, since it it require some skills, some sneaking up and quick reflexes. Insta kill scenario can also come from chronos, thieves and so on. There is way to counter all of those and its 2 things, be alert and l2 dodge. PS. Time ppl spend here QQing how SB is op , if used to actually l2p would prolly lead them to see how easy is to counter , full counter :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Foud.1935 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Caedmon.6798 said: > > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > > I dont think it needs to be gutted. I think full counter needs to be gutted. Having 1 min of invl is not ok. > > > > The problem with that is the entire elite spec basically is just "full counter". What I mean by that is it's not just one OP skill, it's the entire profession mechanic. If you completely gut it, then the spec is going to be useless. I mentioned this in another thread, it's gonna be really difficult for anet to properly balance it without killing the spec. > > They can revert our adren bursting back to level 3 and make some adjustments to lower the counter dmg ( i do see most warris Only using counter spam ) and upp the cd a bit since burst dmg will be back up there again. > > Do want to add i do think that counter is easily baited and can be easily avoided if people pay attention and dont mindlessly spamm,as ive done myself and see guildies doing it properly aswell. One of the worsts aspects of full counter is that is unblockable. Even if you trigger them to used you have to run from them and go back. it's a joke and the cooldown is so low. Basically full counter and the full counter trait line are the huge problems with spellbreaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiranslee.4829 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > @Caedmon.6798 said: > > > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > > > I dont think it needs to be gutted. I think full counter needs to be gutted. Having 1 min of invl is not ok. > > > > > > The problem with that is the entire elite spec basically is just "full counter". What I mean by that is it's not just one OP skill, it's the entire profession mechanic. If you completely gut it, then the spec is going to be useless. I mentioned this in another thread, it's gonna be really difficult for anet to properly balance it without killing the spec. > > > > They can revert our adren bursting back to level 3 and make some adjustments to lower the counter dmg ( i do see most warris Only using counter spam ) and upp the cd a bit since burst dmg will be back up there again. > > > > Do want to add i do think that counter is easily baited and can be easily avoided if people pay attention and dont mindlessly spamm,as ive done myself and see guildies doing it properly aswell. > > One of the worsts aspects of full counter is that is unblockable. Even if you trigger them to used you have to run from them and go back. it's a joke and the cooldown is so low. Basically full counter and the full counter trait line are the huge problems with spellbreaker. Did you try to , lets say , not go melee with SB. Helps. While we are on that , 100b is really strong skill do not stand in spot while warriors use it on u . The more you know ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Foud.1935 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @kiranslee.4829 said: > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > > @Caedmon.6798 said: > > > > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > > > > I dont think it needs to be gutted. I think full counter needs to be gutted. Having 1 min of invl is not ok. > > > > > > > > The problem with that is the entire elite spec basically is just "full counter". What I mean by that is it's not just one OP skill, it's the entire profession mechanic. If you completely gut it, then the spec is going to be useless. I mentioned this in another thread, it's gonna be really difficult for anet to properly balance it without killing the spec. > > > > > > They can revert our adren bursting back to level 3 and make some adjustments to lower the counter dmg ( i do see most warris Only using counter spam ) and upp the cd a bit since burst dmg will be back up there again. > > > > > > Do want to add i do think that counter is easily baited and can be easily avoided if people pay attention and dont mindlessly spamm,as ive done myself and see guildies doing it properly aswell. > > > > One of the worsts aspects of full counter is that is unblockable. Even if you trigger them to used you have to run from them and go back. it's a joke and the cooldown is so low. Basically full counter and the full counter trait line are the huge problems with spellbreaker. > > Did you try to , lets say , not go melee with SB. Helps. While we are on that , 100b is really strong skill do not stand in spot while warriors use it on u . > The more you know ..... So the solution you are offering, not only you actually but many Spellbreakers, is to not melee? For real? And you don't think that this is problem? The fact that you can't go melee vs a spellbreaker? So you technically forcing everyone to go range, which is irrelevent considering the gap closer warriors have. wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWI.4127 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: >Basically full counter and the full counter trait line are the huge problems with spellbreaker. The issue is that's basically the entire elite spec. You're basically saying "spellbreaker is the problem with spellbreaker". I know it's frustrating to play against, but you have to realize if they over-do this it's going to kill this entire spec after just a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Foud.1935 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @SWI.4127 said: > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > >Basically full counter and the full counter trait line are the huge problems with spellbreaker. > > The issue is that's basically the entire elite spec. You're basically saying "spellbreaker is the problem with spellbreaker". I know it's frustrating to play against, but you have to realize if they over-do this it's going to kill this entire spec after just a month. Exactly! Don't you see how tha's a problem too? This build is so op that leaves no space for other spellbreaker builds. And that's bad for Spellbreaker. Like Scourge is bad for Reaper cause it's so op. I don't think that raising full counter's cd, lowering the dmg and making it able to be blocked will kill the entire spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiranslee.4829 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > @SWI.4127 said: > > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > >Basically full counter and the full counter trait line are the huge problems with spellbreaker. > > > > The issue is that's basically the entire elite spec. You're basically saying "spellbreaker is the problem with spellbreaker". I know it's frustrating to play against, but you have to realize if they over-do this it's going to kill this entire spec after just a month. > > Exactly! Don't you see how tha's a problem too? This build is so op that leaves no space for other spellbreaker builds. And that's bad for Spellbreaker. Like Scourge is bad for Reaper cause it's so op. I don't think that raising full counter's cd, lowering the dmg and making it able to be blocked will kill the entire spec. Quick search on youtube , and i got this : . In short, chrono insta killz ppl. Is that op, as you can see he is not even depended on player action ? Should we go QQ and ask for nerf ? Or, maybe it was skilled chrono , who know how to make synerge on traits and skills and know how to use it FTW. Sb major flow is not its traits or skills , its lazy players who cant learn how to counter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Foud.1935 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @kiranslee.4829 said: > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > > @SWI.4127 said: > > > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > > >Basically full counter and the full counter trait line are the huge problems with spellbreaker. > > > > > > The issue is that's basically the entire elite spec. You're basically saying "spellbreaker is the problem with spellbreaker". I know it's frustrating to play against, but you have to realize if they over-do this it's going to kill this entire spec after just a month. > > > > Exactly! Don't you see how tha's a problem too? This build is so op that leaves no space for other spellbreaker builds. And that's bad for Spellbreaker. Like Scourge is bad for Reaper cause it's so op. I don't think that raising full counter's cd, lowering the dmg and making it able to be blocked will kill the entire spec. > > Quick search on youtube , and i got this : . > In short, chrono insta killz ppl. Is that op, as you can see he is not even depended on player action ? Should we go QQ and ask for nerf ? Or, maybe it was skilled chrono , who know how to make synerge on traits and skills and know how to use it FTW. > Sb major flow is not its traits or skills , its lazy players who cant learn how to counter it. Ok let me tell why you and all the people who use youtube videos as an argument are wrong. First of all. This Mesmer runs a zerk build thats why he does so much dmg like every class that runs a zerk build and most of the enemies are not aware he is there, giving him a huge advantage. Second, people on youtube post only the fun moments where they win, that doesn't apply to reality. And the thing you miss, is that all the fights in the video are 1v1, if you want I can post many videos with Spellbreaker winning 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, even 1v5. Do you see the problem? So please don't use youtube videos as an argument cause this backfires to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiranslee.4829 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > Ok let me tell why you and all the people who use youtube videos as an argument are wrong. First of all. This Mesmer runs a zerk build thats why he does so much dmg like every class that runs a zerk build and most of the enemies are not aware he is there, giving him a huge advantage. Second, people on youtube post only the fun moments where they win, that doesn't apply to reality. And the thing you miss, is that all the fights in the video are 1v1, if you want I can post many videos with Spellbreaker winning 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, even 1v5. Do you see the problem? So please don't use youtube videos as an argument cause this backfires to you. Ill just give you this. Watch it as simple fight. What is problem there , SB being OP , or player who constantly poke its FC ? One thing im sure, ppl like Sind or Misha, you wont see here on forums QQing , they will go play the game and learn how to counter. Peace o/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry.5713 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Most people still need to get used to fighting a spellbreaker properly even if the number of players who eat every single FC has gone down a little now. The spec completely changed the flow of duels against warriors for most classes. You can no longer engage them as freely as before, you can no longer face tank them on some classes or braindead jump them in numbers expecting them fall down instantly after you triggered or simply baited their Endure Pain. This also applies to condi bombing them with everything you have and expecting them to die instantly. I still feel like most of this comes down to the beloved *lern2play* issue more than anything else. Some classes are simply no longer able to laugh at warrior in melee range. Dragonhunters, DP thieves and reapers come to mind. They are the ones who have to adjust now rather than the warriors after the previous endless cycle of nerfs. The only thing that hasn't really changed is the "Warrior Greatsword Dance" you do when fighting another warrior yourself. Even some spellbreakers themselves seem to be completely clueless about how to deal with an opposing FC or how to kill someone if you simply avoid hitting their own FC. Don't get me wrong, spellbreakers are on the strong side. Maybe too strong here and there in sPvP and especially WvW. Some rebalancing wouldn't hurt. But I do not see the need to completely gut them like some people seem to be asking for. Why would we want the other two monsters, the scourge and firebrand, to run around even more freely than they already do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeskies.1536 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Full Counter needs a small range nerf. Revenge Counter needs its resistance cut in half and bonus damage removed. Last Stand needs to actually cast Lesser Balanced Stance, not Balanced Stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppy.4183 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > @kiranslee.4829 said: > > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > > > @Caedmon.6798 said: > > > > > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > > > > > I dont think it needs to be gutted. I think full counter needs to be gutted. Having 1 min of invl is not ok. > > > > > > > > > > The problem with that is the entire elite spec basically is just "full counter". What I mean by that is it's not just one OP skill, it's the entire profession mechanic. If you completely gut it, then the spec is going to be useless. I mentioned this in another thread, it's gonna be really difficult for anet to properly balance it without killing the spec. > > > > > > > > They can revert our adren bursting back to level 3 and make some adjustments to lower the counter dmg ( i do see most warris Only using counter spam ) and upp the cd a bit since burst dmg will be back up there again. > > > > > > > > Do want to add i do think that counter is easily baited and can be easily avoided if people pay attention and dont mindlessly spamm,as ive done myself and see guildies doing it properly aswell. > > > > > > One of the worsts aspects of full counter is that is unblockable. Even if you trigger them to used you have to run from them and go back. it's a joke and the cooldown is so low. Basically full counter and the full counter trait line are the huge problems with spellbreaker. > > > > Did you try to , lets say , not go melee with SB. Helps. While we are on that , 100b is really strong skill do not stand in spot while warriors use it on u . > > The more you know ..... > > So the solution you are offering, not only you actually but many Spellbreakers, is to not melee? For real? And you don't think that this is problem? The fact that you can't go melee vs a spellbreaker? So you technically forcing everyone to go range, which is irrelevent considering the gap closer warriors have. wow! I run full zerk melee core warrior and I'm chewing up and spitting out spellbreakers, even in group fights. The advice to go range is the easy mode that most builds should be able to handle. If you can neither kite warriors nor refrain from hitting the bubble, then spellbreaker isn't your primary issue. If you're talking about a group fight, then your group should be spreading out since a spellbreaker can only close on one of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Foud.1935 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @kiranslee.4829 said: > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > Ok let me tell why you and all the people who use youtube videos as an argument are wrong. First of all. This Mesmer runs a zerk build thats why he does so much dmg like every class that runs a zerk build and most of the enemies are not aware he is there, giving him a huge advantage. Second, people on youtube post only the fun moments where they win, that doesn't apply to reality. And the thing you miss, is that all the fights in the video are 1v1, if you want I can post many videos with Spellbreaker winning 1v1, 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, even 1v5. Do you see the problem? So please don't use youtube videos as an argument cause this backfires to you. > > Ill just give you this. > Watch it as simple fight. What is problem there , SB being OP , or player who constantly poke its FC ? > One thing im sure, ppl like Sind or Misha, you wont see here on forums QQing , they will go play the game and learn how to counter. > Peace o/ Again youtube videos as an argument... I won't even watch it. This says nothing to me. You have all the community complaining about full counter but sure. Just because some people can kill spellbreakers it means it's fine. I can kill spellbreakers too. That doesn't mean that there is no problem. Once I watched 2 spellbreakers dueling for half an hour in wvw. You know what happened? Nothing. Nothing. They couldn't even kill each other. But sure, it's an l2p issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWI.4127 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > @SWI.4127 said: > > > @"Harry Foud.1935" said: > > >Basically full counter and the full counter trait line are the huge problems with spellbreaker. > > > > The issue is that's basically the entire elite spec. You're basically saying "spellbreaker is the problem with spellbreaker". I know it's frustrating to play against, but you have to realize if they over-do this it's going to kill this entire spec after just a month. > > Exactly! Don't you see how tha's a problem too? This build is so op that leaves no space for other spellbreaker builds. And that's bad for Spellbreaker. Like Scourge is bad for Reaper cause it's so op. I don't think that raising full counter's cd, lowering the dmg and making it able to be blocked will kill the entire spec. I think it's a problem in the sense that it's indicative of bad design on a-net's part. I don't think it's an issue of "one build is so OP, there is no room for other builds to shine". It's that literally most of the traitline contains buffs for full counter. It's designed that way. It's really fun to play but it's going to be really hard for them to balance properly. Unfortunately I don't have the most faith in their balance team either. If you meant builds other than SB, like Berserker and Core Warrior, then maybe so. Those builds were already considered weak to mediocre before PoF though, and they got nerfed even more for some reason. I mean I still played Core Warrior because I found it fun, but I don't want to have to abandon the new elite spec after a month. I don't think your proposed changes would completely kill it, although I do disagree with making it blockable. Just seeing some people in this thread actually calling for the gutting of the spec and it's sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotASmurf.1725 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 > @Oglaf.1074 said: > Anet designed it as a PvP-only spec. > > It does very well in PvP. > > People want it nerfed to crap. > > I... I just don't understand.... "designed mainly for PvP" doesn't mean it should be broken to the point where every single DPS build (except scourge) is unplayable because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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