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Feedback: Whisper in the Dark


Yasi.9065

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I'm not good with this whole feedback thing. Laziness, likeliness to ramble/tangent/whatever. Spoilers, obviously, though by the time anyone reads this, they've likely seen those already.

 

Okay, here goes. I like the atmosphere when first landing in the map. That creepy feeling of arriving at a place where something went horribly wrong and pretty much everyone else is dead. We already knew we'd see that, and I already guessed that the whispers from the trailer were either Jormag or one of its champions, but those were all nice touches to unnerve someone just a little. Braham is a bit mopey through all of this, but it's more understandable here, what with him apparently leaving his ad-hoc guild here after failing to kill Jormag (and finding soon enough that they've either died or turned traitor). It's nice to see Marjory using her detective skills here a little with her finding the tracks that indicate someone (which we later find to be Jhavi and Almorra) was taken alive. After all this time, it's easy to forget that Marjory started out as a detective, since that part of her kind of fell by the wayside for the most part.

 

I don't care much for the meta-event blizzard at all, probably because it popped up as I was trying to explore outside the map and follow the tracks the story was leading me on with, and then the blizzard comes, and I have to deal with that, cause I don't wanna die to the blizzard debuff (I think I was told later that it just puts you in an ice block, but since the game warns you to not let it reach 20 stacks, I thought it'd just kill me.) The meta isn't horrible, but not great either. I think it goes on a bit longer than it needs to, and that those Svanir bombers have tougher CC bars than they should, but maybe that was scaling at work. I only ran it once or twice so far.

 

After following the tracks with the Raven scepter (oh yeah, there's that bit with the doors locking us in at the keep to be a tutorial for using it, and a mastery later), we find and rescue Jhavi, with a bit more angst from Braham from discovering the two living ex-guildmates have gone traitor. After that, we then have to find Almorra. But first, some events...because this short chapter needs some filler, right? Aside from some interesting dialogue (particularly between Rytlock and Crecia), these events were pretty much filler to drag out the main goal. There is one moment worth mentioning with Marjory however, where upon encountering a Svanir necromancer/shaman (who makes evil copies of people with their essence), she nearly breaks down over a hallucination of Belinda's spirit being drawn out and presumably tortured by the shaman. This felt a bit out of character with her. I could understand her initial distress at seeing Belinda being drawn out of the sword (at least I assume that's what she saw), but I figure she'd get angry and try harder to kill the shaman to free her instead of nearly breaking down into tears, even as we tell her it's not real. Granted, it's implied Jormag's whispers are more than them just whispering into our heads, but after freeing Almorra, we warn the others about the whispers so you'd think they'd be a bit more on guard. Braham's even involves him seeing his dead guildmates again, which is meh. Crecia and Rytlock have some issues, so their argument while fighting is a bit more believable at least.

 

Anyways, we find that Almorra is long dead by the time we reach her. And, she deserved better than that. I guess the point they're going for is that no matter how great a character is, they can still die a skritt's death, but I'm still a bit annoyed with how they discarded her like that, even with them kinda hinting at it earlier. "Your general has killed her last dragon." This is also the point where we realize Almorra couldn't have called us to the Shiverpeaks, since her communicator was taken...so, Jormag did it, somehow? The whispers didn't start until after we arrived, so how? Did it speak through one of the icebrood and imitate her voice? Either way, we now need to break into the Raven shrine to kill the fraenir.

 

And this is where things got annoying. It's probably been fixed by now, but the chapter had a bug where it wouldn't count the acquiring of the Tier 2 Raven Mastery to unlock the shrine, even if one already had it. Thankfully it was fixed and I was able to continue...albeit on another character at first, then after restarting it for the first one. Still making me think that having Mastery requirements for story chapters is not a good design choice.

 

Another thing worth mentioning is that this chapter is very short. It feels more like a prologue than the previous chapter did, in fact, something that's been mentioned already. The Raven shrine/sanctum wasn't too bad, and once again the spooky atmosphere played a role here. The Trials of Raven come off as Raven being a bit of a bunghole as it feels contrived to make every choice suck no matter what. Then there's the fraenir fight, which thankfully isn't too bad despite all the visual noise, and me not figuring out his "hide in a puff of show" trick at first.

 

I guess the one big surprise was Jormag deciding to speak directly to us through the corpse of his/her? champion at the end. Kudos to whoever did Jormag's voice, by the way. While I don't know if the intent was to confuse us about Jormag's gender, they managed that. I guess it doesn't matter much since Elder Dragons wouldn't care about it at all, but maybe it's another mind game, like how Jormag is seemingly offering to help us/Aurene somehow...right. So Jormag was the one that called us to the new map...somehow. This seems to go against the Sons of Svanir's plans, since they didn't want us showing up. Seems a bit mixed to mess with our heads and try to have your minions kill us, only to then offer us peace at the end of it. Then again, it's a bit interesting that an Elder Dragon would even attempt diplomacy at all, but then again, we have killed three Elder Dragons, and Jormag doesn't want to be next on the list.

 

This one's a meh. There's a few good things, but some annoying things as well. Oh, and that boneskinner from the trailer? It doesn't even play a role in the story at all. I never even fought it. There's also a bunch of unexplained things like the aberrant enemies wandering about, unless we're to assume there are Svanir necromancer shamans making them as well. The Masteries outside of the initial Raven one also feel contrived and aren't really necessary. The new weapon collection is again a bit interesting, but not enough to make me feel like getting all of it. At least they didn't gate it behind a meta this time, though.

 

I guess, bugs aside, it was passable for a quick story/map, though again, it felt rather short, even with a bit of filler. Rambling over.

 

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> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > @"hugo.4705" said:

> > > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > > @"hugo.4705" said:

> > > > :o :o :o everyone know there is an hidden achievment for doing what the whispers are asking? Nice surprise.

> > > > Liked the one tied to boneskinner tonic too. Nice.

> > >

> > > 0 AP. Not sure what the point was really

> >

> > Ahh the negativity. The rewards aren't the AP but the fact you got that Achievement which one was hidden so unknown. I like a lot those achievements. Because in a world of AP hunters, they still release things for explorers.

>

> No the rewards are the AP and the discovery. I'm happy enough to haven hidden, discoverable achievements, but I play for fun and to be rewarded for my time in equal measure. So yes it is negativity and I am happy to be labelled negative, but I have fed back many a time that I;d like both and the end to 0 and 1 point achievemnts

 

I respect your way of playing, can fully understand that you want to be rewarded for your efforts and that's normal! I concede I am the type of person who associate rewards to events or the map itself. From achievements, I expect essentially titles and the 50 AP during festivals / episode mastery AP.... the rest is bonus to my eyes.

 

 

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To return to the topic, I felt that the map was lacking of Ambient dialogues.

Sure you have the dialogues during the events but well...

As exemple, around the middle of the map, you have 3 vigil relief patrol together not speaking at all. There is several Svanir patrols around the map, but why aren't they discussing? Only some champions launch taunts when near them.

 

Really, the map ambience is just the whispers. Boneskinner is little better with more hp but still, it's still meh.

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my list if pros and cons about the last chapter.

pros:

* -has an interesting mastery system even while it's useless against enemies.

* -the environment is finally immersive

* -the story is interesting

* -it is nice that jormag's voice is heard outside the story

* -stuff exclusive to the map isn't so overly expensive since the currency drops like mad.

 

cons:

* -the event is way to long and way to pointless, could've bin 6 minutes tops

* -the ice part is extremely annoying, a big screw-up in my eyes

* -raven's protection shield is way to present, to a point that it blocks part of my view. (i suggest making it more transparent and less dark)

* -just one single waypoint, could've used at least one more close to the strike portal.

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Pro's:

 

+ Quick story, not long-winded.

+ Easy farm currency, option to convert to Lw4 currencies

+ Some nice creepy visuals & SFx

+ Easy to gain masteries

+ Easy ingot farm to make weapons to either unlock collection and/or sell TP

+ Regular, easy, plentiful events

+ Easy AP

+ Nice Strike Mission

 

Con's:

 

- Map very small

- Meta is scaled far too easy, presents little if any challenge, poor longevity (only done a few times, and sadly I'm bored of it already)

- Ice effect visuals white-out a bit too much at times

- Only 1 way-point

- Events all very similar: Little variation to them, players will become bored very quickly

- Not enough variation of the landscape, very poor in comparison to Dragonfall ( ? Kourna map designers )

- Quick boredom factor: Poor map longevity / repeat playability

- Not much real excitement for Vet players, everything is far too easy, no real challenge

 

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Still would like to see a statement about why they r*ped the norn lore to the point of us EXPLOITING the raven spirits compared to the good old gw1/gw2 norn story line of the spirits dont give all the time, ON THE FORUMS or another place where we can READ it and dont need to WATCH guild chat at times where some of us wont even be awake cause we aint from america(or dont want to be bothered watching some hours for content you can put together in 15 lines of text in a forum post).

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> @"Murtos.5342" said:

> Still would like to see a statement about why they r*ped the norn lore to the point of us EXPLOITING the raven spirits compared to the good old gw1/gw2 norn story line of the spirits dont give all the time, ON THE FORUMS or another place where we can READ it and dont need to WATCH guild chat at times where some of us wont even be awake cause we aint from america(or dont want to be bothered watching some hours for content you can put together in 15 lines of text in a forum post).

The fact that we get the mastery through Asura technology should be enough lore reason as to why we 'exploit' the essences.

 

However, you could always role-play yourself as a Norn that accumulates the corrupted essences from his foes and purifies it into a blessing of the spirit(s). Your role-playing could even omit that it's done via Asura technology and use faith as the origin of that ability.

 

I hope we get some actual lore on the Norn though, as we were told on the blog entry regarding essences.

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> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"Murtos.5342" said:

> > Still would like to see a statement about why they r*ped the norn lore to the point of us EXPLOITING the raven spirits compared to the good old gw1/gw2 norn story line of the spirits dont give all the time, ON THE FORUMS or another place where we can READ it and dont need to WATCH guild chat at times where some of us wont even be awake cause we aint from america(or dont want to be bothered watching some hours for content you can put together in 15 lines of text in a forum post).

> The fact that we get the mastery through Asura technology should be enough lore reason as to why we 'exploit' the essences.

>

> However, you could always role-play yourself as a Norn that accumulates the corrupted essences from his foes and purifies it into a blessing of the spirit(s). Your role-playing could even omit that it's done via Asura technology and use faith as the origin of that ability.

>

> I hope we get some actual lore on the Norn though, as we were told on the blog entry regarding essences.

 

makes as much sense as my asura having to join the shining blade but whatever... what did i expect with "content" of this "quality"

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I like it, even if the story is a bit short. Nice story which makes me wonder what will happen next. And the visuals are great, as expected.

 

My only concern is that I feel this map will not stay populated for long. There is nothing to keep players on the map once they have finished the story and the various achievements. Players who will start it in a few weeks (months?) may have some difficulties completing the meta to access the restricted zone.

 

 

 

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This episode was disappointingly short... I was just getting into the story after "The Invitation" chapter and then it just had to end... like what??? what exactly is going on here? there was no new expac, and all those resources were going to jump into the living world episodes but it just feels as if there's less people involved...

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> @"Blanche Neige.7241" said:

> My only concern is that I feel this map will not stay populated for long. There is nothing to keep players on the map once they have finished the story and the various achievements. Players who will start it in a few weeks (months?) may have some difficulties completing the meta to access the restricted zone.

If they handle this map like they handled Silverwastes and Drytop, it'll stay active at least half the season. While we don't know how long Season 5 will be, we were told that Bjora Marches gets expanded at least once (in Episode 2).

 

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I liked the look of the new map (and know it will be expanded next episode). The masteries were ok (nothing special). The story was too short, quite easy and it did not satisfy me (I felt no emotion and attachment to the characters at all, nor was it scary at any point). I did like the mention of Mordremoth playing as Sylvari in story tho. I felt way more attached to characters and emotions on Dragonfall story and the prologue. I like the strike missions (that broken rev class should have been fixed before this all came out....almost unplayable on revenant), but the rewards are terrible. In lfg at best I see 1 or 2 squads tops and it will die out if theres no reward like how dungeons or raids have it with a special currency that buys decent stuff (or lets us make legendary gear or something as it was a pre for raids anyways). I also think this map will be dying soon since it has no replayability (mediocre rewards and meta event). I am ok with the freeze visual. I had hoped for events more in line with HoT main maps as those events are fun (but do spice it up more so its not copy pasta) and ofc with decent rewards a la Dragonfall / Tarir / SW and the likes (or like lake doric leather farm as high tier leather is still hard to get). Give us something to aim for, a sort of progression to achieve by playing without making it a grind or time gate (remember HoT gear sets in example).

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> @"Nilkemia.8507" said:

> There's also a bunch of unexplained things like the aberrant enemies wandering about, unless we're to assume there are Svanir necromancer shamans making them as well. The Masteries outside of the initial Raven one also feel contrived and aren't really necessary.

 

It's true. The haunted forest and its inhabitants weren't explained at all.

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> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Nilkemia.8507" said:

> > There's also a bunch of unexplained things like the aberrant enemies wandering about, unless we're to assume there are Svanir necromancer shamans making them as well. The Masteries outside of the initial Raven one also feel contrived and aren't really necessary.

>

> It's true. The haunted forest and its inhabitants weren't explained at all.

 

I think this is ok. We are just learning about what is going on in these upper regions, like real explorers would. We aren't omnipotent beings. Rather we went to a region, saw evidence of a massacre and are literally in the dark about anything. Even what we think we know is suspect. What is real, what is true -- our minds are literally being messed with. This time the corruption isn't just aimed at one race, it seems like it can get to everyone. Who knows what these corrupted are experiencing, or what base desires are being pandered to or fears being preyed upon. When you can't be assured that even your most trusted companion won't turn on you, how can you be sure of anything. It will make this an interesting journey

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I like the atmosphere, the visuals and the way the story is presented. S5 is definitely a step up in the presentation of the story. I was never really a gw2 lore fan but ok that is not really why I play the game or most games in general. I always like it if the story takes you to the open world events and is not all instanced.

 

The essence system is a welcome addition but lacking. It is basically a grind and after it you can open chests - boring. The abilities are also lacking , they only come to play with boneskinner and even there not really required if you have a good CC rotation. But OK an extra CC is useful with boneskinner fight because as we all know by now the blue bar is enigma for 90 % of open world players. C'mon Anet add already a tutorial for newcomers what CC and break bar is! They could be so much more, a trade off between essences, passive buffs, more interesting abilities and less grind for the essences.

 

Light puzzles are cool. Puzzles are always cool. I mean they are kinda easy and could be a bit more of brain challenge but a puzzle is always better than no puzzle.

 

Blizzard visuals are not cool. Visual clarity Anet, visual clarity. We all want it, you always ignore us. I think you are just messing with us by now. There is nothing engaging or visually cool if you cover half of the screen with a static boring texture.

 

Overall difficulty is just way to easy and should be increased (unless difficulty is a scaled break bar for reasons above). Why would you do that after Hot and Pof? You don't take a step back in difficulty in a game. The meta would be much better if it posed any challenge. Masteries would be more interesting also. Boneskinner would be more interesting and scary. People do Hot metas all the time for years. They are not really difficult anymore but at least some coordination is required. You turn down the difficulty and everyone that does other metas will be bored. Bad move imo.

 

The doors open (and close). There are books (bookshelf pls). Thumbs up.

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> @"XatraZaytrax.2601" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > @"Nilkemia.8507" said:

> > > There's also a bunch of unexplained things like the aberrant enemies wandering about, unless we're to assume there are Svanir necromancer shamans making them as well. The Masteries outside of the initial Raven one also feel contrived and aren't really necessary.

> >

> > It's true. The haunted forest and its inhabitants weren't explained at all.

>

> I think this is ok. [...] It will make this an interesting journey

 

We weren't talking about what _will_ be, though, but about what _was_ in this episode. ;) And there _was_ no explanation presented as to what happened to that forest. Of course there could be one in the future, no one denies that.

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The map had to grow on me a bit, but after a while I like it! The new mastery look a bit Star wars though.... perhsps could the beams be toned down a bit and be semi transparent.

 

I'm still waiting for more faces, horns, manes and cultural armours for charr! My Main, Staghorn Paletail (and his friends) has been waiting for good looking deer-inspired horns for seven years! He also want new armour, that is actually made for charr - and wich is not unobtainable due to RNG, as the kanuhr awesome looking helm!

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I thought this episode was an improvement over the prologue, but I'm still struggling to find much that's positive to say. I think the overall tone of the story is very good - a better match to the tone of GW1 than it usually has been - and the fact that the current direction ties in thematically with the lore, particularly of some of the non-human races, is something I really appreciate. I also like the Boreal weapons, which are not too flashy and look like they actually fit properly into the game world.

 

Unfortunately, everything else I have to say is uniformly negative. My biggest gripe is that the episode is just way too easy. This is supposed to be max-level endgame content, and yet it's easier than mid-level maps in Central Tyria. (I'm not exaggerating: I was exploring Lornar's Pass with a ~level 35-40 alt afterwards, and the new episode was _much_ easier!) Even the end-of-act boss felt weaker than the average PoF open world veteran - the only thing at all difficult about him was that he disappeared a couple of times. I'm a pretty casual player, so if I'm finding the new content this easy, I hate to think how patronising the more hardcore players find it. I think the game desperately needs difficulty levels, at least for instanced content.

 

The episode also felt very short, and the new masteries feel like the throwaway Season 3/HoT-non-gliding masteries. I haven't trained the essence manipulation ones yet, but I don't really see the point - why would I need my already massively overpowered character to be even stronger?

 

The new factions (aberrant and fallen) also don't seem to have any lore behind them, aren't tied to the story, and appear to be randomly chosen enemies with a coloured glow, strewn about the map. It feels like something you'd see in a WarCraft III user map that someone made in a hurry, not a professionally made game.

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I generally enjoyed this episode though the masteries were a little pointless.

 

My one thought here is, I wonder if anet have thought ahead how to keep this saga interesting. Unlike the other seasons where each map is totally different, this saga is likely to have map after map after map set in snowy locales. That's bound to get tedious sooner or later. What are you going to do for contrast? Will there be snow-free areas in each map, some kind of tropical locales mysteriously protected from the cold? Or will the story cut away to more temperate regions now and then, and how will you fit that in plausibly? And how will you ratchet up the tension in each map if the first one already has a massive snow storm? Will each map have ...more storms? More ice on the screen? More regions that freeze you to death quickly, until the last map entirely becomes a death zone where you have to spend all your time looking for heat like that Lost Planet game series? What are you going to do, Anet? I'm intrigued.

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Bit of a late opinion here but for personal opinion? I absolutely loved this episode.

Of course that's not to say there weren't faults. I'm not going to particularly point any out as the first page alone of this thread is filled with negative comments. I will point out my disappointment that the boneskinner didn't appear in the actual story content of the episode. If it had appeared in the Raven Riddle maze that would've topped the horror factor for me. (very weak to scary things here)

**Just a heads up, the spoilers hiding function isn't working for me so beware if you haven't finished the episode (though people visiting this thread probably have)**

 

To elaborate on what I enjoyed, my god I could ramble for ages. (I'll try to keep this short):

* Horror element, fantastic. Jormag very clearly strikes us as a dragon who manipulates us with mind tricks and whispers and it shows. The raven maze where you suddenly lose sight of your friends was _chilling_. As a player who fully immerses myself into the story and the world when I play, I was horrified and terrified

* On that note, Sound design team, another fantastic job. The sounds in raven maze are truly unsettling from a pure audio standpoint as well. The music that plays during Boneskinner fight is really quirky but honestly I adore it. The screams you hear if you don't manage to save a kidnapped soldier send shivers down my back every time I hear them.

* Also thank you to everyone who worked on Boneskinner (if it isn't obvious I love it) but the design is really cool and the sounds it makes really fit it.

* Yet another Boneskinner niche detail! Finding an injured Vigil soldier and trying to help, only to hear their terrified begging and prayers as you turn around and see the Boneskinner unstealth and kidnap them? Gave me a heartattack but it's real nice that we get these details instead of the game launching directly into "soldiers were kidnapped so we have to save them."

* Also, going idle (at least in the forest) will spawn the invulnerable champ boneskinner on top of you if the boneskinner event draws near. Gave me a heart attack and a reason for my mother on the phone with me to laugh as I panicked and barely made it out alive with the help of a good old dodgeroll and my trusty skyscale.

* To whomever decided the Hunger achievement would be a cool addition, thanks, it's horrifying. In the game itself, I had a blast with map chat and joking about trying to find a warg, but once you step away from the collection and actually take a look at what's happening? what you're helping to create? It's gruesome. Also the reminder of npcs scattered throughout the area also turning into boneskinners which remind you what's going on in the map is also another checkpoint for me in the horror. The boneskinner boss battle happening every 15 mins or so makes a lot of sense from how many npcs you can find that are well on their way to transforming

* hey yeah on note of the atrocious things happening on the map, that introduction where you find dead bodies piled and scattered throughout the building is also gruesome. The fact that you can inspect the bodies and make assumptions on their deaths, the way the biggest pile of bodies is arranged? yeah thanks for the nightmares.

* Also the three books you can find scattered throughout the map (while I"ve only gotten two of them), are really cool and provide really neat details for the lore and map. Reading about what it's like to transform into a boneskinner from the point of view of the Kodan as well as questioning the entire Norn obsession with Jormag's fang and the reasons for their return to Bjora Marches? Great!

* The meta involving weather mechanics? Real cool! Yeah I get that people complain about it and how tedious it is but we're in the far shiverpeaks so having the weather attribute is great joy for me as someone who plays for lore and general fun.

* the new puzzles are real cool and they incorporate mounts in a simple yet understandable way. Clearing out the light puzzles was pretty relaxing amid the fights and general darkness going on with the entire map.

* The weapons! Haven't gotten around to them yet but I definitely will. I get they're not as flashy as other weapons which some people have complaints about but from a lore standpoint it's wonderful. Since I design my characters and style them and their weapons according to how I think it'll fit them with lore, a subdued weapon design is real ideal and this new set looks like it'll be fantastic for my brand new Soulbeast.

* As a sylvari main, getting a few lines as a nod to the fact that we've gone through mind games before and that it reminds us of Mordremoth was a real nice touch that I greatly appreciated. Makes me wonder if as the episodes go on, and if Jormag is our enemy, if all characters and commanders will be hallucinating the closer we get to Jormag just as what happened with Mordremoth.

 

All in all, my list goes on. I get people complain, a good mass of the forums is filled with complaints and no one can be fully satisfied. Quite a bit of these complaints can even be taken as constructive criticism. But I think we should definitely highlight what the teams did do well with their updates. Give appreciation where it's due. I'm new in this game but I have immense love for it and what it does in places where it wasn't necessary but make the game a whole lot more interesting because it has those details. And hey, if they know what we did like, the devs might improve or incorporate more of it :D

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

So, I kept away from GW2 story for a while. I finally played the prologue and episode one. My expectations where very low, and the prologue sure impressed. I think it is the best story content since I can remember. The map is gorgeous and interesting (with a bit little to do, but still). So.. my expectations went much higher.

 

Then I played Whispers in the Dark. Extremely disappointing.. on every level. Story was half backed and full of Deus Ex Machina. Dragon can use mind control **ON ANYONE** (or whatever is convenient to the story), can talk through walkies impersonating others... Also, why were there few Vigil soldiers alone in hostile territory. Does not the Pact fight dragons together? The Pact had literal armies and fleets. Why is the Pact Marshal going into dangerous territory with limited protection. And not that I do not care about Almora, she is not a significant character in the story, that her death means much. The map itself, is limited. Small. Not much to do. Mastery is pointless. It is more to create gating than to add any value. Why are mobs color coded? You know, I have eyes and can distinguish between various mobs categories, right Anet?

 

And here is the even bigger problem: this is the only content, the only fucking content Anet is producing. How can you fuck this up? You are not producing anything else..

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