Why some classes don't need line of sight while others need?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > i find funny the thiefs players coming here to defend it, this topic is not about thief, its about line of sight i give the example of thief because is one of the classes that more abuse this fail concept

> >

> > Thief, rev, and guardian are really the only ones to take advantage of teleports in a reliable way and thief is the one to use it to LOS so that's probably why people are referring to thief so much. You know how kitten it would be if these professions had no way to chase the enemy or flee? You would just fight them until you start to lose, then you just reset by running around a wall. Its like saying all of warriors blocks/evades are OP or necro's shroud is OP. If you **know** your opponent can teleport you play accordingly. Don't panic spam skills, try to predict when they will tele (its not has hard as it sounds), make them burn up their teleports/initiative/energy so they can't teleport anymore. If they have to keep teleporting off point then you're winning the fight and causing them to waste valuable time.

>

> because blocks/shroud is a ** class mechanic**, while teleporting is a class mechanic doing it without los is a **failed game mechanic**, you can't wait them burn everything at you they hit hard and you going to die, no one here is asking to remove teleport or give teleport to other classes, im talking about LOS while on some classes this work on others it's ignored and let they abuse it, if LOS worked on thiefs they would still have teleports.

>

> do i have to draw you a picture?

 

Removing these little idiosyncrasies within the game would take away a lot of the flavor between the classes.here's a few other examples:

Spectral walk off a keep wall into a group in wvw spin to win than tele back to top of wall. Thief has no valid target from wall or shadow step back to base of a wall as more often than not thiefs return acts like flesh wurm and other tele returns but should that be removed from spectral walk? No. Or mesmer placing a copy onto a wall and swapping where as thief can't tele to top of walls etc. A lot of classes have little differences even tho they share similar skills and the should be slightly different. Also if player is using action cam tele thru walls is unreliable as many times with opponent targeted I'll attempt to tele to target only to set the ring at my feet and teleporting no where and this includes tele thru shrubbery as well lol

[SeikeNz.3526]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > i find funny the thiefs players coming here to defend it, this topic is not about thief, its about line of sight i give the example of thief because is one of the classes that more abuse this fail concept

> > >

> > > Thief, rev, and guardian are really the only ones to take advantage of teleports in a reliable way and thief is the one to use it to LOS so that's probably why people are referring to thief so much. You know how kitten it would be if these professions had no way to chase the enemy or flee? You would just fight them until you start to lose, then you just reset by running around a wall. Its like saying all of warriors blocks/evades are OP or necro's shroud is OP. If you **know** your opponent can teleport you play accordingly. Don't panic spam skills, try to predict when they will tele (its not has hard as it sounds), make them burn up their teleports/initiative/energy so they can't teleport anymore. If they have to keep teleporting off point then you're winning the fight and causing them to waste valuable time.

> >

> > because blocks/shroud is a ** class mechanic**, while teleporting is a class mechanic doing it without los is a **failed game mechanic**, you can't wait them burn everything at you they hit hard and you going to die, no one here is asking to remove teleport or give teleport to other classes, im talking about LOS while on some classes this work on others it's ignored and let they abuse it, if LOS worked on thiefs they would still have teleports.

> >

> > do i have to draw you a picture?

>

> Removing these little idiosyncrasies within the game would take away a lot of the flavor between the classes.here's a few other examples:

> Spectral walk off a keep wall into a group in wvw spin to win than tele back to top of wall. Thief has no valid target from wall or shadow step back to base of a wall as more often than not thiefs return acts like flesh wurm and other tele returns but should that be removed from spectral walk? No. Or mesmer placing a copy onto a wall and swapping where as thief can't tele to top of walls etc. A lot of classes have little differences even tho they share similar skills and the should be slightly different. Also if player is using action cam tele thru walls is unreliable as many times with opponent targeted I'll attempt to tele to target only to set the ring at my feet and teleporting no where and this includes tele thru shrubbery as well lol

 

it's fun for the person using it, it's not fun to fight against it

spectral walk is ok.. you need to walk to the enemy, it's just a return, same to flesh wurm, it's just a return that can be killed, the problem is when it's used to attack like guardians/rev/thiefs.

now the worst ones are thiefs since they can spam it, while shadowstep have a 50s cd to balance it they let steal low cd and sword 2 be spamable.

the real problem is when you are using a class that need LOS and fight vs those classes, your skills keep getting interrupted and obstructed so theres no fair here, since they can just throw skills while running away and you need LOS to do it, this just break the balance.

that 3s of skill interrupted for no reason can kill you, not forget to mention the misses without being blinded

[Zexanima.7851]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > > i find funny the thiefs players coming here to defend it, this topic is not about thief, its about line of sight i give the example of thief because is one of the classes that more abuse this fail concept

> > > >

> > > > Thief, rev, and guardian are really the only ones to take advantage of teleports in a reliable way and thief is the one to use it to LOS so that's probably why people are referring to thief so much. You know how kitten it would be if these professions had no way to chase the enemy or flee? You would just fight them until you start to lose, then you just reset by running around a wall. Its like saying all of warriors blocks/evades are OP or necro's shroud is OP. If you **know** your opponent can teleport you play accordingly. Don't panic spam skills, try to predict when they will tele (its not has hard as it sounds), make them burn up their teleports/initiative/energy so they can't teleport anymore. If they have to keep teleporting off point then you're winning the fight and causing them to waste valuable time.

> > >

> > > because blocks/shroud is a ** class mechanic**, while teleporting is a class mechanic doing it without los is a **failed game mechanic**, you can't wait them burn everything at you they hit hard and you going to die, no one here is asking to remove teleport or give teleport to other classes, im talking about LOS while on some classes this work on others it's ignored and let they abuse it, if LOS worked on thiefs they would still have teleports.

> > >

> > > do i have to draw you a picture?

> >

> > Removing these little idiosyncrasies within the game would take away a lot of the flavor between the classes.here's a few other examples:

> > Spectral walk off a keep wall into a group in wvw spin to win than tele back to top of wall. Thief has no valid target from wall or shadow step back to base of a wall as more often than not thiefs return acts like flesh wurm and other tele returns but should that be removed from spectral walk? No. Or mesmer placing a copy onto a wall and swapping where as thief can't tele to top of walls etc. A lot of classes have little differences even tho they share similar skills and the should be slightly different. Also if player is using action cam tele thru walls is unreliable as many times with opponent targeted I'll attempt to tele to target only to set the ring at my feet and teleporting no where and this includes tele thru shrubbery as well lol

>

> it's fun for the person using it, it's not fun to fight against it

> spectral walk is ok.. you need to walk to the enemy, it's just a return, same to flesh wurm, it's just a return that can be killed, the problem is when it's used to attack like guardians/rev/thiefs.

> now the worst ones are thiefs since they can spam it, while shadowstep have a 50s cd to balance it they let steal low cd and sword 2 be spamable.

> the real problem is when you are using a class that need LOS and fight vs those classes, your skills keep getting interrupted and obstructed so theres no fair here, since they can just throw skills while running away and you need LOS to do it, this just break the balance.

> that 3s of skill interrupted for no reason can kill you, not forget to mention the misses without being blinded

 

So what you're saying is the low health pool, low armor thief should just have to sit there and get blasted? If thief can't tank the damage and it cant avoid the damage then it's just going to get steam rolled 24/7. I take it you're a mesmer player from your original post which thief is a pretty good counter to so its probably pretty frustrating to play against them. You have to remember professions are a soft game of rock paper scissors. Just because you're having trouble with their mechanics doesn't mean they are broken. Maybe post in your professions forum and ask how others deal with it?

 

[SeikeNz.3526]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > > @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > > > > > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > > > > > i find funny the thiefs players coming here to defend it, this topic is not about thief, its about line of sight i give the example of thief because is one of the classes that more abuse this fail concept

> > > > >

> > > > > Thief, rev, and guardian are really the only ones to take advantage of teleports in a reliable way and thief is the one to use it to LOS so that's probably why people are referring to thief so much. You know how kitten it would be if these professions had no way to chase the enemy or flee? You would just fight them until you start to lose, then you just reset by running around a wall. Its like saying all of warriors blocks/evades are OP or necro's shroud is OP. If you **know** your opponent can teleport you play accordingly. Don't panic spam skills, try to predict when they will tele (its not has hard as it sounds), make them burn up their teleports/initiative/energy so they can't teleport anymore. If they have to keep teleporting off point then you're winning the fight and causing them to waste valuable time.

> > > >

> > > > because blocks/shroud is a ** class mechanic**, while teleporting is a class mechanic doing it without los is a **failed game mechanic**, you can't wait them burn everything at you they hit hard and you going to die, no one here is asking to remove teleport or give teleport to other classes, im talking about LOS while on some classes this work on others it's ignored and let they abuse it, if LOS worked on thiefs they would still have teleports.

> > > >

> > > > do i have to draw you a picture?

> > >

> > > Removing these little idiosyncrasies within the game would take away a lot of the flavor between the classes.here's a few other examples:

> > > Spectral walk off a keep wall into a group in wvw spin to win than tele back to top of wall. Thief has no valid target from wall or shadow step back to base of a wall as more often than not thiefs return acts like flesh wurm and other tele returns but should that be removed from spectral walk? No. Or mesmer placing a copy onto a wall and swapping where as thief can't tele to top of walls etc. A lot of classes have little differences even tho they share similar skills and the should be slightly different. Also if player is using action cam tele thru walls is unreliable as many times with opponent targeted I'll attempt to tele to target only to set the ring at my feet and teleporting no where and this includes tele thru shrubbery as well lol

> >

> > it's fun for the person using it, it's not fun to fight against it

> > spectral walk is ok.. you need to walk to the enemy, it's just a return, same to flesh wurm, it's just a return that can be killed, the problem is when it's used to attack like guardians/rev/thiefs.

> > now the worst ones are thiefs since they can spam it, while shadowstep have a 50s cd to balance it they let steal low cd and sword 2 be spamable.

> > the real problem is when you are using a class that need LOS and fight vs those classes, your skills keep getting interrupted and obstructed so theres no fair here, since they can just throw skills while running away and you need LOS to do it, this just break the balance.

> > that 3s of skill interrupted for no reason can kill you, not forget to mention the misses without being blinded

>

> So what you're saying is the low health pool, low armor thief should just have to sit there and get blasted? If thief can't tank the damage and it cant avoid the damage then it's just going to get steam rolled 24/7. I take it you're a mesmer player from your original post which thief is a pretty good counter to so its probably pretty frustrating to play against them. You have to remember professions are a soft game of rock paper scissors. Just because you're having trouble with their mechanics doesn't mean they are broken. Maybe post in your professions forum and ask how others deal with it?

>

 

no it's not that what im asking, im asking if they would use teleport they need to use in a valid path, they will still outrun people, the problem is when they use walls and can teleport behind it, then teleport to you again and repeat.

 

if you have a line ------------thief is here-----------------------|open space|-----------------------teleport 900 range away--------------. this is a valide path.

now you have a wall------thief is here |WALL| enemy--------. this isn't a valid path, the enemy just can't fight back, will lose target and keep getting interrupted.

 

sure thiefs have a certain advantage vs mesmers, i dont play only mesmers, i play mesmer, guardian, rangers, necros even thiefs, but with mesmers are one of the most frustating to play because the needed of LOS while other classes don't have it

[Ragnar.4257]

Every single one of these threads:

 

_Why can [class A] do [thing] that [class B] can't._

 

Maybe because that's the whole point of having different classes with different flavours, themes, playstyles.

 

At this point you have to be trolling.

[ZDragon.3046]

As a necro i abuse line of sight as much as possible its already hard for me to catch people who just run because thats the most optimal thing to do against a necro. What reason is there for me to think that your life force cant be magically and forcibly rippled from your body through a super thin wall?

Or that when i use a reaper shout my voice and any magic thats carried with it cant wrap around the wall and still reach you just as sound carries through the air in the real world.

 

Some skills working without line of sight in some cases makes sense and are just fine.

In truth if someone really wants to get picky about every skill requiring line of sight supporters are going to see a lot of hard nerfs because many support skills also work on allies without line of sight (usually the flashy magic ones)

 

There are some exceptions though like back when scourge torch and necro scepter could hit main targets behind walls and such yeah that kind of stuff should not be a thing.

I think generally anet has most of the skills in the game on the right track but not every skill needs to follow this rule there should be some exceptions usually more so among the magical themed professions.

 

IF overload air couldnt hit some one behind a while while the caster is standing with their nose touching the wall then i think thats a problem.

Similarly if shouts just failed to hit people behind thin walls or small obstructions thats also a problem.

 

So long as its not something thats like a direct target skill, rapid fire, power lock, ghastly tickles, oppressive smash, etc then its its generally fine.

Most skills that can hit you behind walls make sense that they can do so.

 

I wont comment too much on things like guardian and thief ports because thats out of my area of expertise but even in these cases i dont think the issues are too extreme.

I dont see much issue with porting in through or behind a a wall if pathing allows you to get there by walking the same range distance. Now going back out with the wall in the way is where it gets questionable and why people likely start pointing the finger at thief so hard.

Guardians are probably less of a focal issue because once they go in using this method they are stuck in. Note im not saying anyone should have their skills changed i think most of them are fine there are only super niche few i think that would need some adjustments.

[SeikeNz.3526]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> As a necro i abuse line of sight as much as possible its already hard for me to catch people who just run because thats the most optimal thing to do against a necro. What reason is there for me to think that your life force cant be magically and forcibly rippled from your body through a super thin wall?

> Or that when i use a reaper shout my voice and any magic thats carried with it cant wrap around the wall and still reach you just as sound carries through the air in the real world.

>

> Some skills working without line of sight in some cases makes sense and are just fine.

> In truth if someone really wants to get picky about every skill requiring line of sight supporters are going to see a lot of hard nerfs because many support skills also work on allies without line of sight (usually the flashy magic ones)

>

> There are some exceptions though like back when scourge torch and necro scepter could hit main targets behind walls and such yeah that kind of stuff should not be a thing.

> I think generally anet has most of the skills in the game on the right track but not every skill needs to follow this rule there should be some exceptions usually more so among the magical themed professions.

>

> IF overload air couldnt hit some one behind a while while the caster is standing with their nose touching the wall then i think thats a problem.

> Similarly if shouts just failed to hit people behind thin walls or small obstructions thats also a problem.

>

> So long as its not something thats like a direct target skill, rapid fire, power lock, ghastly tickles, oppressive smash, etc then its its generally fine.

> Most skills that can hit you behind walls make sense that they can do so.

>

> I wont comment too much on things like guardian and thief ports because thats out of my area of expertise but even in these cases i dont think the issues are too extreme.

> I dont see much issue with porting in through or behind a a wall if pathing allows you to get there by walking the same range distance. Now going back out with the wall in the way is where it gets questionable and why people likely start pointing the finger at thief so hard.

> Guardians are probably less of a focal issue because once they go in using this method they are stuck in. Note im not saying anyone should have their skills changed i think most of them are fine there are only super niche few i think that would need some adjustments.

 

skills that require a target need a LOS, while ground targeted skills is ok hitting anywhere since they are true aoes.

also walls is a game strategy to block hits, but classes that can teleport behind it you lose that strategy while the teleporter don't

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> _Why can [class A] do [thing] that [class B] can't._

> Maybe because that's the whole point of having different classes with different flavours, themes, playstyles.

 

Balance is not wholly determined by mechanics. It is also determined by how much damage a class can put out, how useful a class is in any frequently occurring scenario, and how many tools that class has to avoid, mitigate, or otherwise negate damage.

 

Some classes need some skills that need to not obey line of sight. Some classes do not. If you would like to claim that some classes need more or less LoS dependent skills because it makes them unbalanced, do so. Classes are not automatically unbalanced because a specific class is restricted by LoS.

 

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

 

> skills that require a target need a LOS, while ground targeted skills is ok hitting anywhere since they are true aoes.

> also walls is a game strategy to block hits, but classes that can teleport behind it you lose that strategy while the teleporter don't

 

Then again most teleports are 1 way trips only as I said which i dont think are problems as if they come behind the wall and make mistake they cannot immediately leave there is only 1 profession that uses a targetd tp that breaks this rule and im not sure it would be 100% fair to punish them by disabling the skill to get to people in general.

 

At most minor adjustments would need to be made to fall in line with other skills so that if used to go beyond line of sight then they are simply stuck in and cannot immediately out just as the other professions who have a similar mechanic and this is being super picky about it.

 

I still dont think most of whats being pointed out here with TP's need to really be changed. Not every class can tp behind walls and alot of the professions that can use targeted teleports are not very advanced in ranged combat im not so sure you need to be behind a wall all that hard.

 

For rev most of the time they cant do much to you if you range them generally unless wvw hammer.

Guardian is more so the same thing untill you apply dragon hunter which helps their ranged gameplay.

Theif is kind of half and half but most thieves run sword dagger and staff or sowrd dagger and shrot bow.

 

I think this stuff is mostly fine lol

 

[SeikeNz.3526]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

>

> > skills that require a target need a LOS, while ground targeted skills is ok hitting anywhere since they are true aoes.

> > also walls is a game strategy to block hits, but classes that can teleport behind it you lose that strategy while the teleporter don't

>

> Then again most teleports are 1 way trips only as I said which i dont think are problems as if they come behind the wall and make mistake they cannot immediately leave there is only 1 profession that uses a targetd tp that breaks this rule and im not sure it would be 100% fair to punish them by disabling the skill to get to people in general.

>

> At most minor adjustments would need to be made to fall in line with other skills so that if used to go beyond line of sight then they are simply stuck in and cannot immediately out just as the other professions who have a similar mechanic and this is being super picky about it.

>

> I still dont think most of whats being pointed out here with TP's need to really be changed. Not every class can tp behind walls and alot of the professions that can use targeted teleports are not very advanced in ranged combat im not so sure you need to be behind a wall all that hard.

>

> For rev most of the time they cant do much to you if you range them generally unless wvw hammer.

> Guardian is more so the same thing untill you apply dragon hunter which helps their ranged gameplay.

> Theif is kind of half and half but most thieves run sword dagger and staff or sowrd dagger and shrot bow.

>

> I think this stuff is mostly fine lol

>

 

it's not disabling the skills, just make them teleport but with a valid path, in any other game teleporting behind walls would be called wallhack, gw2 is " game mechanic" lmao

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> As a necro i abuse line of sight as much as possible its already hard for me to catch people who just run because thats the most optimal thing to do against a necro. What reason is there for me to think that your life force cant be magically and forcibly rippled from your body through a super thin wall?

> Or that when i use a reaper shout my voice and any magic thats carried with it cant wrap around the wall and still reach you just as sound carries through the air in the real world.

>

> Some skills working without line of sight in some cases makes sense and are just fine.

> In truth if someone really wants to get picky about every skill requiring line of sight supporters are going to see a lot of hard nerfs because many support skills also work on allies without line of sight (usually the flashy magic ones)

>

> There are some exceptions though like back when scourge torch and necro scepter could hit main targets behind walls and such yeah that kind of stuff should not be a thing.

> I think generally anet has most of the skills in the game on the right track but not every skill needs to follow this rule there should be some exceptions usually more so among the magical themed professions.

>

> IF overload air couldnt hit some one behind a while while the caster is standing with their nose touching the wall then i think thats a problem.

> Similarly if shouts just failed to hit people behind thin walls or small obstructions thats also a problem.

>

> So long as its not something thats like a direct target skill, rapid fire, power lock, ghastly tickles, oppressive smash, etc then its its generally fine.

> Most skills that can hit you behind walls make sense that they can do so.

>

> I wont comment too much on things like guardian and thief ports because thats out of my area of expertise but even in these cases i dont think the issues are too extreme.

> I dont see much issue with porting in through or behind a a wall if pathing allows you to get there by walking the same range distance. Now going back out with the wall in the way is where it gets questionable and why people likely start pointing the finger at thief so hard.

> Guardians are probably less of a focal issue because once they go in using this method they are stuck in. Note im not saying anyone should have their skills changed i think most of them are fine there are only super niche few i think that would need some adjustments.

 

hitting throught walls is kinda questionable, had a game on beast map ( dont remember the name ) mid point, I was standing on the stairs behind the point, reaper walked to the wall and smacked me for 10k, some of those hits are pure bullshit.

But reality is that melee hits have to go throught walls becouse it would be buggy, I notice too many obscured hits on flat ground on range hits, having same shit with melee would be ridiculous.

Not something I like, but I know why it exists and accept it.

+ some of the skills logically have to hi through walls to make them work ( chill to the bone for example ).

[SeikeNz.3526]

but LOS isnt all about wall porters, it's one of the most broken things but another example is holo skills weapons, they can be running away then they press the skill and they auto turn to atk you and will never be canceled, so their atks will be double as fast than it's supposed to be

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> it's not disabling the skills, just make them teleport but with a valid path, in any other game teleporting behind walls would be called wallhack, gw2 is " game mechanic" lmao

 

because its not a wall hacking when you have multiple professions that can do it.

Its only a true hack like mechanic when 1 person can do something that no other person can do a similar action and that action has no or almost zero counter-play behind it. Thats not the case for most of these teleports. The game is in 3rd person depending on the wall if they have you targeted you can see them and they cannot see you.

 

Then again if you go behind a wall and you cant see your target because you are hiding from them then thats a double edged sword play. The person might TP into traps or something or you might not see them teleporting to you thats a 50-50.

 

Revs teleport from shiro if you are watching them has a similar animation to a warriors bull charge. Gurdian and theif are a bit more difficult to spot for how fast they happen.

 

As i said though the only one i would even really point out for being out of the norm is thief's sword as they can immediately withdraw and exit after porting from beyond line of sight while the other professions in question cannot.

So long as there is more than 1 or 2 professions that can blink to a target behind wall i dont think its an issue if there was only one profession that could do it i would 100% agree with you.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> hitting throught walls is kinda questionable, had a game on beast map ( dont remember the name ) mid point, I was standing on the stairs behind the point, reaper walked to the wall and smacked me for 10k, some of those hits are pure kitten.

> But reality is that melee hits have to go throught walls becouse it would be buggy, I notice too many obscured hits on flat ground on range hits, having same kitten with melee would be ridiculous.

> Not something I like, but I know why it exists and accept it.

> + some of the skills logically have to hi through walls to make them work ( chill to the bone for example ).

 

Reaper autos have alot of range its not impossible to hit someone through a wall if the wall or obstruction is super thin (with a ghostly spectral weapon i might add) and the situations where this happens should be very niche so much so that i dont think most of them are worth pointing out. IF you rub you face on a paper thin wall and another profession rubs their face on that wall and swings their weapon they are going to hit you lol.

This happens for alot of skills such as full counter, arc divider, soul spiral, illusionary wave, maul, worldly impact, blunderbust, holographic shock wave (still in some cases), etc its just a common thing.

 

It seems like most of the focus for the wall / line of sight issues are looking at targeted teleports namely thief and rev and to a lesser extent guardian.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> it's fun for the person using it, it's not fun to fight against it

> spectral walk is ok.. you need to walk to the enemy, it's just a return, same to flesh wurm, it's just a return that can be killed, the problem is when it's used to attack like guardians/rev/thiefs.

> now the worst ones are thiefs since they can spam it, while shadowstep have a 50s cd to balance it they let steal low cd and sword 2 be spamable.

 

As someone already said, it has a hefty cast and aftercast time. You're vulnerable and can be interrupted since S/D has no access to swiftness outside plasma steal. You can't spam it to chase, since the internal cooldown on IS w/o IR is around ~15 seconds.

 

On top of this, even the return costs initiative, so you're sacrificing damage for utility. And don't you even start comparing S/D's auto damage to warrior or revenant. Every time I see people accuse thief of their ability to 'spam' their skills, I wonder how bad a thief have they gone and lost to.

 

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Ahhhh Illusionary Ambush and Axes of Symmetry are bae <3

 

Wanna hide behind a wall....POOF now you are downed. Beat so many people this way (moreso scourges/reapers strangely enough, next is rangers)

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> but LOS isnt all about wall porters, it's one of the most broken things but another example is holo skills weapons, they can be running away then they press the skill and they auto turn to atk you and will never be canceled, so their atks will be double as fast than it's supposed to be

 

This well i mean turning around does not make your skills faster though it is a good way to trick someone by walking away and knowing how to not hold right click when pressing a skill so that the skill turns to your intended target to ensure is activation. but considering this topic is about line of sight i think line of sight should be the focus here a holo running away the and surprising you by suddenly turning around to attack (depending on the skill is not an issue)

 

Now if you are talking about tool belt skills that can fire backwards then yes that would be an issue. (I dont think ive seen this happen)

As far as i know Holo has no skills that will fire-backwards breaking the LoS rule

 

Even with the prime light beam which can be fixated onto a new target if you have your settings adjusted in a certain way can be pre cast in one direction and turned and selecting a new target with the update skills to current target option which will cause the holo to turn to the new target. This does not make the skill fire faster though or break LoS rules.

 

This tactic can also be done other skills though the faster the skill the more difficult it is to perform ive seen it done with the following

**Bulls Charge** - You charge away then suddenly turn to move back at your intended target.

**Warrior Great-sword skill Rush** - You charge away then suddenly turn to move back at your intended target.

**Ele Ride the lightning** - You zoom away then suddenly change direction back at your intended target (this one is very difficult to do and not worth doing.)

**Prime light Beam** - intentionally precast in the wrong direction or at the wrong target then turns to face the new target when you select them.

 

You really have to understand whats going on here and if you have not been playing long its easy to see how this may be mistaken as as breaking line of sight but its not. If the holo does not turn to face you and the skill still his you then its breaking line of sight but technically because the holo turns during the pre cast of what i assume you are calling out (prime light beam) you are just being baited lol.

Dont worry this bait gets me too its a really good tactic.

 

[Eurantien.4632]

Moron who decided to main ranger when the game came out chiming in.

 

Teleports are so vastly fucking superior to ranger.

 

The dps meta for PvP was mesmer and thief, kinda dps guard. All which have teleports. (Yes mesmer can't go through walls, but more on mes later)... ranger didn't have a place, why? Line of site, and reflects...

 

Ranger is the only viable ranged dps profession that can't chase while in a ranged weapon...

 

Not only that but ranger is the only viable ranged profession whose damage can be not just nullified but reflected by reflects... if a guardian wanted to, they could have near permanent reflect uptime, for their whole team.

 

The only other viable dps with range? Mesmer. Does mesmer give a shit about reflects? No. Why? Beams. They not only aren't projectiles but they also automatically pierce!!

 

They can also port after someone while still using ranged dmg... making it real hard to LoS effectively.

 

And then... expansions came.

 

Revenant has been the top dps class while I've been playing (I hear it was gone for awhile but I wasn't around). Why? Teleports and high dmg.

 

Revenant obliterated the meta at first... and now is on track to do so again.

 

Mesmer got buffed with more porting options.

 

Thief got dead eye... but that's just garbage since no one good is taking the time to play it god tier.

 

Anyway: ranger gets the most fucked by LoS.

 

Just wanted to write some salt.

 

 

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> Ahhhh Illusionary Ambush and Axes of Symmetry are bae <3

>

> Wanna hide behind a wall....POOF now you are downed. Beat so many people this way (moreso scourges/reapers strangely enough, next is rangers)

 

LOL does it really go through walls within range

No one ever uses axe anymore its like a rarity so ive never noticed.

If so thanks for the tip i appreciate it.

 

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > Ahhhh Illusionary Ambush and Axes of Symmetry are bae <3

> >

> > Wanna hide behind a wall....POOF now you are downed. Beat so many people this way (moreso scourges/reapers strangely enough, next is rangers)

>

> LOL does it really go through walls within range

> No one ever uses axe anymore its like a rarity so ive never noticed.

> If so thanks for the tip i appreciate it.

>

 

np, I run DPS Axe and yes if within range, can go through walls. Couldnt tell ya how many ppl ive surprised with it.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> np, I run DPS Axe and yes if within range, can go through walls. Couldnt tell ya how many ppl ive surprised with it.

 

**Quietly files nails**

That's _really_ funny.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > np, I run DPS Axe and yes if within range, can go through walls. Couldnt tell ya how many ppl ive surprised with it.

>

> **Quietly files nails**

> That's _really_ funny.

 

It _really_ is :p

 

No one expects it

[Abyssisis.3971]

Agreed. If a player cannot walk/run through it, a player shouldn’t be able to teleport through it either.

[otto.5684]

Generally speaking, you should not be able to target an enemy with a skill without line of sight. And damage should never go through walls.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Zexanima.7851" said:

> > @"SeikeNz.3526" said:

> > what kind of balance is that?

> > like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

>

> Just going to use thief as an example because it's what I know best and fits the bill. If you removed their ability to teleport/shadowstep you would have to compensate them for it or else they would just become..well...completely useless. If you buffed their damage they would just start nuking people from stealth which would be even more frustrating. If you buffed their raw defense they would be just be a low damage kitten warrior. Teleports are strong no doubt but I don't think they are placed on any profession which doesn't need them. If I **had** to argue against teleports the only one I personally have a grudge against in guardian but again, if they didn't have it, they would be so slow it would be a joke.

 

It's not a question of "why do some classes need teleports". But rather "Why do targeted teleports get to ignore line of sight while ground targeted ones have to obey line of sight."