Fall damage ????

[starhunter.6015]

I read the posts about the fall damage removal from traits. So what we will no longer have fall damage reduction ? Will it become a mastery which would harm F2P players. Nothing I found gives any info on why it is being removed (besides taking up space in trait line) . Or any info on if it is being placed some where else or if it will be unlocked via leveling ?

[Abraxxus.8971]

I believe one of the devs stated not long ago that with the inclusion of gliding and flying mounts, fall damage reduction is kinda moot.

[Teratus.2859]

Bond of Faith pretty much removes fall damage entirely.

[Dawdler.8521]

It is pretty much the only real change that I agree with. It's irrelevant in the open world - as said gliding and mounts make it moot. Vanilla maps isnt really designed for that many or high cliffs. It only matters in jumping puzzles and I would make the argument that it *shouldnt* matter in jumping puzzles. It's called jumping puzzles for a reason. Having a trait that negate parts of them that are designed to be tricky is well... not really how it's supposed to be, is it? We already have portals which IMO walk a fine line... or has passed it... but at the very least, that promote some player cooperation.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

The Devs talked about the how and why weeks ago.

[Funky.4861]

Not everyone has mounts and/or gliding. If you bought the core game but not the expansions (for whatever reason) then you're stuffed; it's a bit pay-to-win imo, or at least, pay-to-not-be-frustrated-when-you-don't-think-a-fall-will-kill-you-but-it-does. Just roll the FDR into the lower tier minor if it 'complicates' trait selection, that way nobody loses anything. Or remove fall damage from the game.

[Loboling.5293]

I'm against removing fall damage traits. Especially without a replacement plan. Just leave it alone. It's not an issue for anyone. Make changes that help players enjoy the game more. Don't remove options for us. Wow went that route, and slowly gutted everything that made classes special. (not the same, but similar concept of streamlining for nothing) Years later, they are backflipping cause it was a terrible decision. Leave us this option, I like it, and so do most players.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Funky.4861" said:

> Not everyone has mounts and/or gliding. If you bought the core game but not the expansions (for whatever reason) then you're stuffed; it's a bit pay-to-win imo, or at least, pay-to-not-be-frustrated-when-you-don't-think-a-fall-will-kill-you-but-it-does. Just roll the FDR into the lower tier minor if it 'complicates' trait selection, that way nobody loses anything. Or remove fall damage from the game.

 

So you're trying to tell me that you seriously used fall damage reduction traits for said damage reduction and then intentionally jumped from hights in hopes you almost die but not quite yet? Those traits were useless.

[zaxziakohl.5243]

I used the fall damage traits in jump puzzles. They would often save my life in places I would fall, and otherwise die. Many of those puzzles don't allow mounts or gliding. However it's not really a combat skill, so I understand removing it from traits. I would suggest instead that they make a line of food that provides fall damage reduction percentages, and swiftness upon receiving fall damage. That way if you were a player who used those traits for jp's then you still can have the reduction, and a boost of speed to run you back to the beginning of the puzzle to try again.

[Blocki.4931]

I don't even remember the last time I took fall damage

[Sobx.1758]

> @"zaxziakohl.5243" said:

> I used the fall damage traits in jump puzzles. They would often save my life in places I would fall, and otherwise die. Many of those puzzles don't allow mounts or gliding.

 

Prototype position rewinder.

[zaxziakohl.5243]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"zaxziakohl.5243" said:

> > I used the fall damage traits in jump puzzles. They would often save my life in places I would fall, and otherwise die. Many of those puzzles don't allow mounts or gliding.

>

> Prototype position rewinder.

 

The fall damage reduction would still be useful if you were out of time on it, or if you weren't quick enough before you would die. Honestly, I suck at jump puzzles and have shit reflexes. So a buff boost would be more useful and reliable to me. Although the two in concert would be even better.

 

[AgentMoore.9453]

There are a lot of things you _could_ remove from the game because they're niche or seldom-used (tonics, titles, achievements, dungeon paths, minis, adventures), but the point is that **they still get used and people like them**. Removing the reduction of fall damage from traits also removes a passive freedom-of-movement aspect from the game while offering no alternative in return.

 

No reasoning I have seen from devs or defenders explains away the strangeness of this or presents a benefit.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> Bond of Faith pretty much removes fall damage entirely.

 

Not in WvW, though...

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Abraxxus.8971" said:

> I believe one of the devs stated not long ago that with the inclusion of gliding and flying mounts, fall damage reduction is kinda moot.

Basically, the devs that still do play this game do not use this trait, so they (mistakenly) believe noone else does as well.

 

[miraude.2107]

Why not just add fall damage reduction as a core mastery trait? Like Pact Mentor or Noblesse Oblige? Or add it as an extra onto the Pact Commader line and call it 'I Didn't Look: Gain 25% or whatev fall damage reduction when falling from high places.' That way they can add a few more core mastery points to some Jumping Puzzles or something?

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"miraude.2107" said:

> That way they can add a few more core mastery points to some Jumping Puzzles or something?

 

There are more than enough Core Tyrian Mastery Points already. I have 26 points left and nothing to use them on... and I don't even have the maximum of Core Tyrian points, because I am not that much into Fractals.

[AgentMoore.9453]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> There are more than enough Core Tyrian Mastery Points

 

That's by design though. They're not intending for you to have to get them all, they're intending for you to do what you enjoy in the game and get rewarded for it with masteries. It's why meta achievements provide more achievements than needed to get the meta reward, so you have more of a choice of how to obtain your goal.

 

 

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Abraxxus.8971" said:

> > I believe one of the devs stated not long ago that with the inclusion of gliding and flying mounts, fall damage reduction is kinda moot.

> Basically, the devs that still do play this game do not use this trait, so they (mistakenly) believe noone else does as well.

>

 

Or they have the data that shows how many accounts are core only and don’t have access to gliders or mounts and they have the data that shows how often the trait is activated and as compared to the past before gliding and mounts.

 

 

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"AgentMoore.9453" said:

> > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > There are more than enough Core Tyrian Mastery Points

>

> That's by design though. They're not intending for you to have to get them all, they're intending for you to do what you enjoy in the game and get rewarded for it with masteries.

 

I think you missed the context here: my comment was pointing out that there is no need for ANet to provide us with even more Core Tyrian MPs. It was in response to the person I quoted.

[AgentMoore.9453]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> I think you missed the context here: my comment was pointing out that there is no need for ANet to provide us with even more Core Tyrian MPs. It was in response to the person I quoted.

 

I didn't, no.

 

They suggested adding fall damage reduction back in as a core mastery which would give everyone access to it (new and old players alike) and make it a passive benefit again without getting in the way of traits. You then said there were already too many core mastery points, as if the idea wasn't a good one. I then pointed out that having more points than you need isn't actually an issue because it's just another option for people.

 

You're right that there's no dire need for core MPs, but adding more isn't a problem either and, in fact, it would solve the fall damage dilemma with an accessible solution.

 

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"AgentMoore.9453" said:

> I didn't, no.

 

Yes, you did:

 

> They suggested adding fall damage reduction back in as a core mastery which would give everyone access to it (new and old players alike) and make it a passive benefit again without getting in the way of traits. You then said there were already too many core mastery points, as if the idea wasn't a good one.

 

Again, that was in response to the idea of adding more Core Mastery _Points_, not to adding a new Core Mastery for Fall Damage Reduction.

 

> @"AgentMoore.9453" said:

> You're right that there's no dire need for core MPs, but adding more isn't a problem either

 

It's not a problem, no. I've never said it was. I just think that it's unnecessary, that's all.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Funky.4861" said:

> > Not everyone has mounts and/or gliding. If you bought the core game but not the expansions (for whatever reason) then you're stuffed; it's a bit pay-to-win imo, or at least, pay-to-not-be-frustrated-when-you-don't-think-a-fall-will-kill-you-but-it-does. Just roll the FDR into the lower tier minor if it 'complicates' trait selection, that way nobody loses anything. Or remove fall damage from the game.

>

> So you're trying to tell me that you seriously used fall damage reduction traits for said damage reduction and then intentionally jumped from hights in hopes you almost die but not quite yet? Those traits were useless.

 

I've personally "killed" dozens, if not hundreds, of enemy players in wvw by leading them off of cliffs (before gliding). Sure some had fall damage traits, but most not.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Abraxxus.8971" said:

> > > I believe one of the devs stated not long ago that with the inclusion of gliding and flying mounts, fall damage reduction is kinda moot.

> > Basically, the devs that still do play this game do not use this trait, so they (mistakenly) believe noone else does as well.

> >

>

> Or they have the data that shows how many accounts are core only and don’t have access to gliders or mounts and they have the data that shows how often the trait is activated and as compared to the past before gliding and mounts.

If they actually had that data and checked it, they would have realized that it is used often enough. Besides, let's be honest, as far as useless traits go, fall damage reduction ones are not even in the middle of the pack, much less in front of it.

 

Besides, Anet have shown many times in the past that even when they do have data, it's nowhere close to certain they would be able to interprete it well. Just look, for example, at the history of Twilight Arbor (both Aether path, and Forward Up) - at what data did they receive from both, what were their conclusions for those data, and why those conclusions were badly wrong.

 

Edit:

In case you do not remember well:

**Forward Up** - got removed because data was showing it was the least completed path of all dungeons at that point. Which was true, but completely ignored the reason _why_ was it a least run path (it got bugged half a year before, in a way that blocked completion to anyone but the most skilled groups - people were not running it, because they knew they would not be able to finish it due to said bug)

**Aetherpath** - Anet noticed that it wasn't as popular as expected, and decided it means people do not want new dungeons. It was one of the core arguments at cancelling dungeon development. Again, that conclusion completely ignored other possible reasons for why people might not be as interested in that dungeon as in older ones (namely, quite high difficulty level relative to older paths, and unsatisfying rewards).

 

 

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Abraxxus.8971" said:

> > > > I believe one of the devs stated not long ago that with the inclusion of gliding and flying mounts, fall damage reduction is kinda moot.

> > > Basically, the devs that still do play this game do not use this trait, so they (mistakenly) believe noone else does as well.

> > >

> >

> > Or they have the data that shows how many accounts are core only and don’t have access to gliders or mounts and they have the data that shows how often the trait is activated and as compared to the past before gliding and mounts.

> If they actually had that data and checked it, they would have realized that it is used often enough. Besides, let's be honest, as far as useless traits go, fall damage reduction ones are not even in the middle of the pack, much less in front of it.

>

> Besides, Anet have shown many times in the past that even when they do have data, it's nowhere close to certain they would be able to interprete it well. Just look, for example, at the history of Twilight Arbor (both Aether path, and Forward Up) - at what data did they receive from both, what were their conclusions for those data, and why those conclusions were badly wrong.

>

> Edit:

> In case you do not remember well:

> **Forward Up** - got removed because data was showing it was the least completed path of all dungeons at that point. Which was true, but completely ignored the reason _why_ was it a least run path (it got bugged half a year before, in a way that blocked completion to anyone but the most skilled groups - people were not running it, because they knew they would not be able to finish it due to said bug)

> **Aetherpath** - Anet noticed that it wasn't as popular as expected, and decided it means people do not want new dungeons. It was one of the core arguments at cancelling dungeon development. Again, that conclusion completely ignored other possible reasons for why people might not be as interested in that dungeon as in older ones (namely, quite high difficulty level relative to older paths, and unsatisfying rewards).

>

>

 

False equivalency here. Figuring out why people stop using a trait isn’t the same as trying to figure out why people aren’t playing a type of content. People select traits because it gives them a benefit or stop selecting because it stops being as beneficial. Why people don’t play content is much more complex and gets into motives of rewards, difficulty, competition with new content, or other reasons. Traits then are more binary, especially if you can easily see the replacement for an unused trait (gliding or mounts which makes a fall damage trait obsolete for those accounts). Figuring out why people don’t play content gets into trying to figure out motives when there may be multiple motives and those may not be clearly expressed by the players. However with fall damage traits you can see when people start gliding/using mounts and they no longer are falling and the trait, even if selected, is rarely activated.