Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 > @"Blocki.4931" said: > I'm pretty sure that just like with armor type you can't just change who can access what weapons. Elite specs work because they entirely change your character "class". well sure add weaps if it makes sense thematically. lore can always be added as well, to an extent ofc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 I was wondering when one of these threads would come up again. The short of it: won't happen and there is no reason for it to happen. There are far greater issues to deal with which need developer attention one of which is hopefully working on some minor type of expansion and a third set of elite specializations. All those resources which would go into introducing more base weapons (which inherently have no monetization on top of all issues since the core game is f2p) would be much wiser spent on other areas (such as a set of new elite specialization sets as well as the "big" upcoming balance patch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > It seems like you have some underlying issues here as you've introduced concepts that were not suggested by the posts you quoted. If you'd like to discuss them a new thread might be a better solution for you . . . > > > Or perhaps I prefer perfecting existing options over introducing new shinies to distract from existing flaws. Or perhaps players are different, with different perspectives . . . > > lol, I was mimicking all of your arguments in a joking sort of way. You did a poor job of it. You quoted posts about power creep, balance and dev time with a reply about expansions, content difficulty and the 'meta' . . . > "perfecting existing options". the majority of weapon skills are fine; its the traits and class design that are much bigger problems. are you saying after 7 years that anet is going to magically make all weaps viable in all modes? that's not realistic. besides its not impossible to buff existing weaps while introducing new ones. So your proposal is to introduce more non viable weapons? To what end? Just for RP purposes? I would classify that as harmless but pointless . . . Apparently I misinterpreted the OP as a call for more viable weapon choices, to which argument the current glut of non viable options is an effective counter . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardRider.2980 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 So new weapons with animations, traits, skills and balancing of all else.. that does take a ton of time tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 > @"Gop.8713" said: > You did a poor job of it. You quoted posts about power creep, balance and dev time with a reply about expansions, content difficulty and the 'meta' . . . > So your proposal is to introduce more non viable weapons? To what end? Just for RP purposes? I would classify that as harmless but pointless . . . > > Apparently I misinterpreted the OP as a call for more viable weapon choices, to which argument the current glut of non viable options is an effective counter . . . get over it, it was a joke. you're not really replying to anything I've said so lets just leave it as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 As much as more weapons would be cool it would also mean every new weapon added takes away a new weapon from a future elite spec.. With this in mind I think it would be far better to introduce a secondary set of skills for specific weapons per class instead and give players the option to pick which skills they want to use on their weapons. For Example Warrior Mace having a second set of skills that focuses on condition damage. Ranger main hand Axe having a second set of skills focused on melee damage. Thief main hand dagger having a second set of skills focused on ranged damage aka throwing knives. Necromancers Staff getting a second set of skills focused on power damage AoE. This would allow for more build diversity without taking away new weapons from potential elite specs and would give weapons more variety. Want a typical Sword and Shield style Warrior but hate the current sword skills? well now you have options.. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > I was wondering when one of these threads would come up again. > > The short of it: won't happen and there is no reason for it to happen. There are far greater issues to deal with which need developer attention one of which is hopefully working on some minor type of expansion and a third set of elite specializations. All those resources which would go into introducing more base weapons (which inherently have no monetization on top of all issues since the core game is f2p) would be much wiser spent on other areas (such as a set of new elite specialization sets as well as the "big" upcoming balance patch). so what you're some sort of clairvoyant? why do you think pouring 100% of dev time into new core weaps is what I had in mind? ideally the task would be spread out over a decent amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > As much as more weapons would be cool it would also mean every new weapon added takes away a new weapon from a future elite spec.. > > With this in mind I think it would be far better to introduce a secondary set of skills for specific weapons per class instead and give players the option to pick which skills they want to use on their weapons. > > For Example Warrior Mace having a second set of skills that focuses on condition damage. > Ranger main hand Axe having a second set of skills focused on melee damage. > Thief main hand dagger having a second set of skills focused on ranged damage aka throwing knives. > Necromancers Staff getting a second set of skills focused on power damage AoE. > > This would allow for more build diversity without taking away new weapons from potential elite specs and would give weapons more variety. > Want a typical Sword and Shield style Warrior but hate the current sword skills? well now you have options.. :) > a second set of skills would be cool, I would be down. dunno if you read the OP or not but I did say that it would be wise to set aside weaps for expacs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trise.2865 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 More weapons is dumb. Except for longspear/polearms, every available weapon archetype is already covered. I propose instead of "new weapons", we change *how we use* our weapons: the introduction of Combat Styles. Styles can be equipped on the fly, and use the same skins, animations, and mechanics. They maintain the fixed-skill system, so there should be no completely broken or useless skill combinations, but can drastically change the utility of a weapon with just a few subtle changes. Styles can be incorporated as Elite Specs, if they want to flesh out a new subclass, but they can also be small changes not worth the full ESpec treatment. For example, a Defensive Sword Style might swap vicious bleeding slashes for deflections and parries, while a Magnum Pistol Style might trade rapid-fire attacks for more Controlling elements, heavier hits and Knockdown/Knockback. This, by the way, is how many games differentiate their weapons, not by mechanics, but by tiny adjustments within the established archetypes; how games like Borderlands get away with claiming "billions of guns", when in reality there are only 6 or 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Avoiding PvP, I dunno why we do not have this or anything. In open world PvE: We could add new weapons. Allow elite line weapons to be useable without elite line (or with different elite line). Allow using different class weapons skills. Example use guardian GS skills while wielding great sword on warrior. All these are easy to add to open world PvE since balance is irrelevant. The variety here would create content for months, even years. I am not even asking for this in fractals or raids (probably not viable for PvP). I am willing to pay for such content. I honestly was expecting something of this sort with the new saga mastery instead of the shit we got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gop.8713 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Gop.8713" said: > > You did a poor job of it. You quoted posts about power creep, balance and dev time with a reply about expansions, content difficulty and the 'meta' . . . > > So your proposal is to introduce more non viable weapons? To what end? Just for RP purposes? I would classify that as harmless but pointless . . . > > > > Apparently I misinterpreted the OP as a call for more viable weapon choices, to which argument the current glut of non viable options is an effective counter . . . > > get over it, it was a joke. you're not really replying to anything I've said so lets just leave it as is. Same way I felt really . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > I was wondering when one of these threads would come up again. > > > > The short of it: won't happen and there is no reason for it to happen. There are far greater issues to deal with which need developer attention one of which is hopefully working on some minor type of expansion and a third set of elite specializations. All those resources which would go into introducing more base weapons (which inherently have no monetization on top of all issues since the core game is f2p) would be much wiser spent on other areas (such as a set of new elite specialization sets as well as the "big" upcoming balance patch). > > so what you're some sort of clairvoyant? why do you think pouring 100% of dev time into new core weaps is what I had in mind? ideally the task would be spread out over a decent amount of time. Spreading out resources does not remove the necessity of spending them... Sure, we can theorize about anything over the next 5 years. The immediate future though is more constricted. EDIT: The reason I mentioned elite specializations is because adding core weapons versus weapons via new elite specializations is pretty much the exact same resource required: creating new skills and mechanics for unavailable weapons per class. The later (elite specializations) being obviously far more complex but easier to fit into a theme as well as adding substantially different game play possibilities (judging by past implementation). So I would not hold my breath on core weapons. Actually IF they added more core weapons at this point in time or near future, that would spell likely doom for future elite specializations, which would not be a good sign for the games health overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I'd rather they add new weapons as parts of new elite specializations so the new weapons can be focused, have proper trait/skill support and so on. Just adding extra weapons won't do much for the game, it will either be useless, as it can't compete with current options, or will be meta and lead to power creep. Better add them through future elite specs so there can be trade offs and proper support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > Spreading out resources does not remove the necessity of spending them... Sure, we can theorize about anything over the next 5 years. The immediate future though is more constricted. > > EDIT: > The reason I mentioned elite specializations is because adding core weapons versus weapons via new elite specializations is pretty much the exact same resource required: creating new skills and mechanics for unavailable weapons per class. The later (elite specializations) being obviously far more complex but easier to fit into a theme as well as adding substantially different game play possibilities (judging by past implementation). > > So I would not hold my breath on core weapons. Actually IF they added more core weapons at this point in time or near future, that would spell likely doom for future elite specializations, which would not be a good sign for the games health overall. no... but it doesn't have to be all or nothing in terms of resources. elites do offer a much different game play possibility, but new core weaps would add game play variability which I think this game needs more of. why would it be doom? as in the resources are being diverted or no new elite options? I already talked about that. expanding the option pool is never an unhealthy decision, i'm not sure why you would think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > I'd rather they add new weapons as parts of new elite specializations so the new weapons can be focused, have proper trait/skill support and so on. Just adding extra weapons won't do much for the game, it will either be useless, as it can't compete with current options, or will be meta and lead to power creep. Better add them through future elite specs so there can be trade offs and proper support. I don't buy the trade off part. 99% of weaps don't need them cuz its the traits and class design that's the problem. good point about support tho. I guess they could inject the new weaps into trait lines somehow but it would be kinda janky. mostly core trait lines but I guess if holo for example were to get off hand sword then it would make sense to put it into the holo trait line. it would work lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einlanzer.1627 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 It actually makes me angry they have yet to introduce new weapon types for the game and roll them out to class's core options. Talk about a huge bang for buck expansion item. Yes, they would have to make new skins/animations. Big whoop - that's extremely normal for MMO development and should be expected by all devs and players. It should be seen as one of the best ways to generate player interest and expand customization & honestly always would probably have been better than elite specs (they listened to Nike way too much there for a while). They also should get away from the whole "themed set" approach of BL skins and instead just do one-offs. It would be far more engaging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > Spreading out resources does not remove the necessity of spending them... Sure, we can theorize about anything over the next 5 years. The immediate future though is more constricted. > > > > EDIT: > > The reason I mentioned elite specializations is because adding core weapons versus weapons via new elite specializations is pretty much the exact same resource required: creating new skills and mechanics for unavailable weapons per class. The later (elite specializations) being obviously far more complex but easier to fit into a theme as well as adding substantially different game play possibilities (judging by past implementation). > > > > So I would not hold my breath on core weapons. Actually IF they added more core weapons at this point in time or near future, that would spell likely doom for future elite specializations, which would not be a good sign for the games health overall. > > no... but it doesn't have to be all or nothing in terms of resources. elites do offer a much different game play possibility, but new core weaps would add game play variability which I think this game needs more of. why would it be doom? as in the resources are being diverted or no new elite options? I already talked about that. expanding the option pool is never an unhealthy decision, i'm not sure why you would think that. Why would it be doom? Have you followed this games resource allocation for the last 1.5 years? I am making educated assumptions based on what we have seen is possible, what we have seen developed and what we can expect. Again, you can wishful think as much as you want, I am simply pointing out the reality of the situation. That is without getting into ANY type of arguments of how rational it is to pour resources into core content or without monetization in mind. Factor that in, and wishful thinking turns into pure delusion. I am all for suggestions and player interaction, at some point though one has to realize certain expectations are outlandish (for example to even assume that new core weapons AND elite specializations are to be expected, hence why I refereed to one spelling doom for the other). I could just as well make a post about how I would wish for 2 expansions to be released this year with tons of content, and while I doubt many would object to such a bliss, it is hilarious to even assume that would be possible currently, even if direly needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > is much easier. > > does not equal better. a lot of weaps should be buffed, but even if they were, that doesn't mean new weaps wouldn't help and be a great addition to the game. some weaps are sort of relegated to certain game modes, which I don't like but would be fine if there were more options. take ele for example. how many viable weaps do they have in pvp? one at the moment. buffing scepter and dagger would be great and would add variety, but adding new weapons would create more replayability like SoulGuardian said and create a more complete counter system. Imo all weapon should be at core level, it would be the elites that would change the gameplay and what define what those weapon would do. Just like spear on rev works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > snips I have seen what anet is capable of in terms of released content, i'm not going to cherry pick time periods. we have no idea whats going on internally. also its not so far fetched to think that this could be monetized. I would guess it would be half or less the cost of a regular expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > Imo all weapon should be at core level, it would be the elites that would change the gameplay and what define what those weapon would do. > Just like spear on rev works. > huh yeah interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulGuardian.6203 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Aeolus.3615" said: > > Imo all weapon should be at core level, it would be the elites that would change the gameplay and what define what those weapon would do. > > Just like spear on rev works. > > > > huh yeah interesting. Bring on the wall! Imo, and that's just my opinion. They should give all classes access to all weapons just like in GW1. Then, just like @"Aeolus.3615" suggested, each individual class specialisations would dictate what those weapons would do. So a Warrior wielding a scepter would be totally different than a Necro, according to each class. PS. Bring on the land Spear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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