What is seducing about WvW

[Yugz.6925]

Hello everyone, today I want to discuss about what is seducing, to you guys, about WvW.

In my own post, I'll try to relate about my friends experiences as well (which I have been introducing to the game for the past six years). I also apologize about my english (I'm currently posting on my phone and it is not forgiving, trust me ahah).

 

My first experience of WvW was back in the days where what we used to call "green arrows" (which were under lv80 players) were a dominant part of the population of the gamemode. Therefore, you can imagine how "unbalanced" it was (mainly due to the power difference between players). However, we all enjoyed the game, and I seriously doubt that the game mode is not as balanced as it was at that time in these scenarios.

So what's seducing about the gamemode, what changed and how to fix it in 2020.

The first experience in the gamemode can either be nice or terrible.

As I said I introduced friends to the game many times and when we first went to WvW, it often resulted in trying to join a zerg, just to get oneshotted in the first fights due to huge powercreep and unforgiveness in large organized fights if not oneshotted before by full glass roamers.

But sometimes, we managed to have some unorganized small scale fights which were far more enjoyable for everyone, my friends did not get massive fps drops, we could interact, play together, and have overall way more interaction and immersion in the game. When that happened, every single one told me "that's the most fun I've ever had to the game and now I realize what's so special about it". And I think that this is key to the first experience in WvW, smaller, more forgiving fights, like defending a camp, or a tower with friends against people that do not oneshot you within a second. (i'm talking about the new player's perspective since I have been an heavy roamer and constant top100 pvp in EUW as a Thief (not saying that to brag but to say that this is not whinning "pewpew broken" or anything)).

So yeah that is thing that we kinda lost in the gamemode, and even more when the mount came up, we do lack of fun and interaction apart from big scale fights.

Now, I know that a lot of us also got seduced about large scale fights (so more than 35 ppl in each side (considering that 35 is still low)). I think that back in the days where we needed to buff might more often and more precisely was a lot funnier, same for water blasting, a lot of interaction inside the same team was necessary and we kinda lost that with all the "passive" management of boons.

What could also be refreshing is adding new ways to interact, between players by giving unplayed classes in large scale (so everyone but necro guard and rev actually ahah) useful spells.

A good example of that is obviously mesmer which has been used for the stealth veil in the past. It is an unique and yet very simple spell, that makes the whole zerg interact together, and obviously makes the game more fun to play. It also gives an undeniable utility to mesmer (besides the chronomancer atm) that allows people that like mesmers able to perform and help in these fights.

Add to that reducing the powercreep to be more "sPvP scaled" and I seriously think that we can make WvW great again, not only for us veterans, but also for people that aren't familiar with the game.

 

And for you what seduced you at the first place about the gamemode and what do you think should be its evolution ?

[Justine.6351]

Karma,

Needed to get my first rare axe at level 30. Chopchopchop

[subversiontwo.7501]

The seducing bit about WvW is that it was (allegedly) originally designed to be GW2's perpetual endgame. The filler content that always ran. It was/is core content that systems were built around and optimized for. That shows, because the combat engine of GW2 is very conducive to WvW gameplay. The mode has had its fair share of performance issues and balance issues over the years but compared to most other games it has been fairly stable and the fixes that have been made shows that it isn't difficult for the mode to stay under upkeep, resources have just been so incredibly underdimensioned that it has fallen short of even being under maintenence mode (good example just recently with CMC triaging balance in 2 weeks which the studio as a whole had failed to adress for 2 years, that says quite alot about attention and competence in both directions).

 

However, if you take its 7-year history the design is solid with content usually being stable up towards the 50 v X target of the design. In most cases you can have 50v50 content on screen with 100v100v100 content on maps without major performance issues and there are rare cases when players have felt that 50v50 isn't a grand-enough scale. That shows good core design with synergy between content design and performance demands.

 

The combat system can also be described as a golden middle way that simply fits RvR gameplay perfectly. It isn't too stale (like older tab-target titles) and it isn't too intricate for larger scales (like newer action-combat titles). It is... just right. The conal design, the reticle design and so forth that makes up the ability mechanics suits RvR gameplay and that is what makes the combat engine so good for WvW.

 

No other game for the past 7 years have done this stuff better. That says quite alot, both a testament to the strength of the original design, but also about the weak competition on the market and the overlooked potential post-origin. WvW continues to seduce because in 2012-2020 no one else have been able to release anything better, only something almost as good or talk about something potentially better. It's also in its shriveled form because even though it is figuratively a cactus alone in an oasis of a desert market, the studio has mismanaged cultivating it.

[Sovereign.1093]

VoIP and team play against players not npc. And the comraderie from the few good man I hand around with

[Ultramex.1506]

In large group fight, even if my support isn't great somebody else will do a better job while in PvP, 5v5 chances are someone will rage at me.

[joneirikb.7506]

TLDR: Enemies that fight back (unlike pve), Have to actually pay attention around me and look behind my back (unlike pve), only game mode I've ever been happy to see other players on my team while roaming (unlike pve).

 

Basically, WvW is the PvE mode for me, since AI behaviour is so horrible in the game.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Open world pvp was seducing but that's not what wvw ended up being no it's more off putting than seducing.

[Caysadia.7405]

For me its shattered aegis.

 

The subtle curves of the aegis effect, the simple yet clean artwork on the trait icon, the dichtomy between offense and defense, two opposites brought together to create something more than the sum of its parts, its just true art really.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Caysadia.7405" said:

> For me its shattered aegis.

>

> The subtle curves of the aegis effect, the simple yet clean artwork on the trait icon, the dichtomy between offense and defense, two opposites brought together to create something more than the sum of its parts, its just true art really.

 

I had the same affinity for ranger's sharpened edges trait until they destroyed that. Poor condi longbow died and the abomination of chill bleed reaper was born in the same update.

[Mogwai.4015]

For me it is that I can play how I want in order to have fun without any notable negative impact to others: I can make stupid decisions and take risks even when I know they won't pay off in order to push my own limits, I can play obscure builds and succeed enough to the point of being able to enjoy them, and I can play with friends in a casual setting without any sort of overarching competitive overtone. I can't really do that stuff in PvP. I also don't feel nearly as guilty when I mess up, knowing I am not partially responsible for screwing over four other teammates' ratings.

[CETheLucid.3964]

Making 10 people chase me around because I kept pew pewing someone. And occasionally screen capping the really good whispers for compilations/tickets.

 

I don't know how I get away with it for so long sometimes, I'm really glassy. When the wiseguy eventually shows up it's mixed feelings of "damn funs over" and "its about time you showed".

 

There's a thrill to it. How long can I keep these chucklekittens engaged before they decide they've had enough of my nonsense? Good while apparently!

 

I'm not always like that though. Sometimes I just veg out and run around doing simple things for dailies and reward ticks for the sake of it. That's nice too.

 

Theres a certain quality to it in WvW that makes it exciting. You never know when you'll run into other people or some big thing will happen and you're always getting rewarded for it.

 

Couldn't tell you how ideal that is profit wise, but I make out comfortably and I enjoy myself. The reward system for WvW is probably one of the best updates they did for the game mode.

[XenesisII.1540]

I got gw2 solely for wvw, I have played other rvr games and was in love with the mode before coming to gw2. Daoc, Planetside, Wow alterac valley, Warhammer online, Eso, I really enjoy the big battle scenarios. Wvw can keep you entertained as the moment to moment play can be different in many ways, one min you're roaming and getting into duels, next you could be in a giant zerg battle in the open field, next into a multi guild zone blob v blob, next you could be in a siege war at a keep, next a massive 3 way battle in smc that lasts for 30 mins, next you're hunting down gankers to help your scouts, next you're sneaking a tower with a couple guild catas, doing this all with friends and guild mates, even better.

 

7 years later most of my friends and guild have left, and combat which is 90% of what you're doing in this game, has turned into garbage.... I now wait for the changes combat desperately needs, or for another rvr game...

 

 

[Hannelore.8153]

Because RvR has always been the end-game for PvE games. Its taking what makes PvE enjoyable and adding antagonistic, rather than just protagonistic, group play to it which creates a completely different experience than fighting terrible AI.

 

Some games with half-decent AI do well without a RvR game mode at the end, but not GW2. It offers some of the most unintelligent enemies on the market and that's alot of why people don't enjoy the end-game content in PvE; and its not about being casual or hardcore, an easy-to-defeat enemy can still behave in a way that presents you with difficulty, rather than just being meat.

 

Intelligent opponents are the backbone of video game enjoyment for some people and that's why WvW wins here.

[Lamb.1273]

Initially, there was nothing seducing about the game mode. I started to play because I wanted the exclusive WvW armor, since it was one of the few medium armor sets that looked nice. If not for the initial pull of the armor, I would not have thought to give the game mode a real spin, because the first thing I ever saw when I first looked was nothing(dead server), and then when I looked again, two people running yaks back and forth. I didn't realize there were large scale fights happening. Whatever compelled me to return a third time, I don't know. That armor must have looked really good at the time.

 

I never got into games like this before, so my exposure to stuff like this was limited. I was as fresh as it gets. It has since been several years since I started playing this game mode.

 

In any case, once I discovered there was more to WvW I started enjoying it for what it was. I suppose the seduction is in the group effort. At least when it's active, or the server is not seemingly, actively tanking.

[Duca di Ebonhawke.1045]

It's like to play chess in large scale , it's not only how strong player you are but tactics , intelligence and strategy can do the difference. Other value it is the team spirit you can generate and the level of group training you can have.

[Dawdler.8521]

GW2 is the only MMO where I've been able to keep up with the requirements to play "competetivly" together with others.

 

Every other game usually start just fine, but then everyone start to surpass you. When you want to take a break, it just becomes worse and worse. There's no coming back to that. Once you get thrown off the train it just keeps speeding away from you.

 

In GW2, you can always come back.

[miguelsil.6324]

At this point almost nothing. for new players it may be fun to begin with for veterans its just worst and worst seeing your gamemode being neglected almost since launch.

[Hoon.1524]

I play WvW to 1 shot people that think their meta builds make them a good player, send me a salty whisper to call me a hacker/noob/etc, block me and proceed to "hunt me" only to get 1 shot again...

and again...

and again...

[Gorani.7205]

What is seducing about the WvW right now? Nothing. It is crushing my heart and soul - but it is sad, but true.

What was seducing about WvW in the past? Seeing that strategy and tactics are a way to success over superior builds and the speed of individual skill in pushing buttons.

The people I knew personally who scouted the home borderlands with me. The encouragement to try again on TS when your attempts at commanding turned out bad for your team. The pride of being the one to call out an attack and allowing your borderland jumping commander to save the keep in the last second.

[KeyOrion.9506]

It's like being in a novel, and there is a giant battle in the chapter your reading....and your right in the thick of it, instead of imagining it.

[Gop.8713]

GoB brought me in, originally . . .

 

The appeal now is it's the only place in the game where you can put yourself in a situation where the odds of success are against you. Compare pve, which is designed for the players to win, and spvp, which is at least designed, in theory, to give players an equal opportunity to win . . .

[cyberzombie.7348]

The combination of real-time, large-scale battles, freedom of stat combinations, and the ability to use siege engines. It's like I'm playing a rts but on a more personal level with most encounters (when evenly numbered) and objectives feeling precarious yet rewarding to accomplish.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Yugz.6925" said:

> Hello everyone, today I want to discuss about what is seducing, to you guys, about WvW.

 

"Seducing"? Nothing. It's been stale and boring for years. Same old, same old every single day.

 

What gets me to play WvW on occasion? The rewards (legendary armor, trinkets, Gift of Battle, etc), and the frequent boredom in PvE (in WvW, the conversations and the fights can be entertaining when you have nothing else to do in the game while you are waiting for the next story episode).

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Yugz.6925" said:

> > Hello everyone, today I want to discuss about what is seducing, to you guys, about WvW.

>

> "Seducing"? Nothing. It's been stale and boring for years. Same old, same old every single day.

>

> What gets me to play WvW on occasion? The rewards (legendary armor, trinkets, Gift of Battle, etc), and the frequent boredom in PvE (in WvW, the conversations and the fights can be entertaining when you have nothing else to do in the game while you are waiting for the next story episode).

 

Ahhh.. So you’ve never run with a havoc group have you..

[Loffels.5934]

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Yugz.6925" said:

> > Hello everyone, today I want to discuss about what is seducing, to you guys, about WvW.

>

> "Seducing"? Nothing. It's been stale and boring for years. Same old, same old every single day.

>

> What gets me to play WvW on occasion? The rewards (legendary armor, trinkets, Gift of Battle, etc), and the frequent boredom in PvE (in WvW, the conversations and the fights can be entertaining when you have nothing else to do in the game while you are waiting for the next story episode).

 

This is the perfect example, to sum up the two most conflicting playstyles in MMOs...

 

Those that play specifically for the reward, not the adventure.

 

Then those who specifically for the adventure, not the reward.

 

Typically, you'll find that most of the die-hard WvW players fall into the latter while casuals fall into the former. It's just that the former is the majority population and why you tend to see focus within this game towards game expansion and episodes, and also why WvW has been "stale" for so long.

 

Personally, I only play GW2 for the WvW/PvP and specifically for the interaction that come from them. I absolutely enjoy group play, obviously Zergs are common but I also play a lot within closed guild groups and small roaming groups. There are so many different ways you can choose to play, but you just have to actually do it. It takes time to setup and it takes time to continue on with giving very little reward, so I kinda understand why WvW can be stale for players who specifically seek reward.

 

However, anyone assuming that WvW is nothing but a zerg fest is just displaying their ignorance and lack of knowledge for the game mode.