Ranger nerfs???

[mistsim.2748]

you can use Jacaranda.

 

you can try things other than core or power Soulbeast.

 

3v3 shines light on rangers not really being that good. Core is really just a decent side noder and +1'er, but 3's are different.

 

Druid is dead, true. They are instadead in 3's.

 

I run a Carrion Soulbeast in 3's and it's really good with a decent comp. I can pressure, support, bunker for a little while. Just try different things if 3's has you in the dumps. Power ranger builds are kinda garbage because you can't kite on these tiny maps, so that's probably where you're coming from.

[Supreme.3164]

> @"DesktopAnalyst.1283" said:

> I'm out. I'm sick of all the Ranger nerfs and still being 2 shotted by thieves... I have 18,000 hrs in this game and I don't want to learn a new class. Now the birds have been nerfed, twice. This class is useless now, even in PVE (which is boring AF). Also, I have only received 1 pre in 8yrs and it was a water weapon that I couldn't even use. Giving this account to my 13yr old...

 

I don't think you can really complain about ranger when looking at the state of professions like elementalist and warrior, compared to them...ranger got away with a slap on the wrist, let's be realistic

[Axl.8924]

> @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > @"DesktopAnalyst.1283" said:

> > I'm out. I'm sick of all the Ranger nerfs and still being 2 shotted by thieves... I have 18,000 hrs in this game and I don't want to learn a new class. Now the birds have been nerfed, twice. This class is useless now, even in PVE (which is boring AF). Also, I have only received 1 pre in 8yrs and it was a water weapon that I couldn't even use. Giving this account to my 13yr old...

>

> I don't think you can really complain about ranger when looking at the state of professions like Elementalist and warrior, compared to them...ranger got away with a slap on the wrist, let's be realistic

 

Truth be told there is good reason to be worried i-'ve seen that kind of reaction in world of warcraft the one you said its only pre-patch it's coming out soon don't worry, but ranger mains want to know their fav class is going to be ok. It is a bit worrisome since druid even with pet and ax was lackluster too in dmg.

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

oh noo now they will move to other broken pets, like that floaty shit that immbs for 9s

[kiwituatara.6053]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> oh noo now they will move to other broken pets, like that floaty kitten that immbs for 9s

 

The problem isn't the pets. Anet will be chasing down pets with the nerfhammer forever if they keep pursuing pet balance like this.

 

Pets had counterplay before. If you killed the pet, you would punish the ranger by longer pet swap cooldown. Soulbeast can essentially keep the pets permanently alive by merging and unmerging constantly. Which is why you're seeing Soulbeasts picking the glassiest highest damaging pets. Cuz there is no penalty to pets dying.

 

TDLR: pets are not the problem, soulbeast is

[Strider.7849]

> @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > @"DesktopAnalyst.1283" said:

> > I'm out. I'm sick of all the Ranger nerfs and still being 2 shotted by thieves... I have 18,000 hrs in this game and I don't want to learn a new class. Now the birds have been nerfed, twice. This class is useless now, even in PVE (which is boring AF). Also, I have only received 1 pre in 8yrs and it was a water weapon that I couldn't even use. Giving this account to my 13yr old...

>

> I don't think you can really complain about ranger when looking at the state of professions like elementalist and warrior, compared to them...ranger got away with a slap on the wrist, let's be realistic

 

After the heavy nerfs rangers sustained (to the point that really only soulbeast is useable) I swapped off ranger to elementalist. Power soulbeast can work if your enemy isn't running reflects/projectile destroyers/heavy blocks and there is a lot of room to run and kite. Condi soulbeast is functional but extremely boring. Have you tried using shortbow or the other condition based weapons? what about traps? The burst is good but there's really no "outplaying" or "skillfully winning" against opponents. It's just lame condition spam that overwhelms the opponent eventually. I can tell you honestly that ele overall is in far better shape than ranger.

 

My tempest heals and provides better support in both WvW and PvE. It's far easier to sustain a bad group (played it as a solo healer for strikes like whisper). Weaver has better sustain, damage, and more build options than soulbeast. The mobility isn't that bad as a roamer too, I personally run fiery greatsword as the elite, lightning flash to port, and off hand dagger has RTL. Not to mention you literally pulse heavy aoe damage.

 

I get that you don't care for rangers or ranger players - but just because you don't like the class doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about overall balance. Would you like every single person to be running guardian (or insert whatever you play) because it's the only thing that's functional? Ranger's in a bad spot in all environments EXCEPT running high mobility roaming builds in WvW with soulbeast.

 

Also, there's a lot of negative remarks floating around about warrior being in a tough spot. It's a condi meta overall, warrior has always struggled with that. It's old version of berserker stance and healing signet resistance (plus the sustain you got from it before with defense line on top) used to give it a shot at handling condi heavy specs that output conditions that countered it: weakness/chill/poison/blind. With the amount of conditions flying out, shake it off isn't enough (what the meta uses) and mending with its long cast time.

[duster.7013]

I love all the rangers and dh in 3v3 getting farmed in seconds.

[Supreme.3164]

> @"Strider.7849" said:

> > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > @"DesktopAnalyst.1283" said:

> > > I'm out. I'm sick of all the Ranger nerfs and still being 2 shotted by thieves... I have 18,000 hrs in this game and I don't want to learn a new class. Now the birds have been nerfed, twice. This class is useless now, even in PVE (which is boring AF). Also, I have only received 1 pre in 8yrs and it was a water weapon that I couldn't even use. Giving this account to my 13yr old...

> >

> > I don't think you can really complain about ranger when looking at the state of professions like elementalist and warrior, compared to them...ranger got away with a slap on the wrist, let's be realistic

>

> After the heavy nerfs rangers sustained (to the point that really only soulbeast is useable) I swapped off ranger to elementalist. Power soulbeast can work if your enemy isn't running reflects/projectile destroyers/heavy blocks and there is a lot of room to run and kite. Condi soulbeast is functional but extremely boring. Have you tried using shortbow or the other condition based weapons? what about traps? The burst is good but there's really no "outplaying" or "skillfully winning" against opponents. It's just lame condition spam that overwhelms the opponent eventually. I can tell you honestly that ele overall is in far better shape than ranger.

>

> My tempest heals and provides better support in both WvW and PvE. It's far easier to sustain a bad group (played it as a solo healer for strikes like whisper). Weaver has better sustain, damage, and more build options than soulbeast. The mobility isn't that bad as a roamer too, I personally run fiery greatsword as the elite, lightning flash to port, and off hand dagger has RTL. Not to mention you literally pulse heavy aoe damage.

>

> I get that you don't care for rangers or ranger players - but just because you don't like the class doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about overall balance. Would you like every single person to be running guardian (or insert whatever you play) because it's the only thing that's functional? Ranger's in a bad spot in all environments EXCEPT running high mobility roaming builds in WvW with soulbeast.

>

> Also, there's a lot of negative remarks floating around about warrior being in a tough spot. It's a condi meta overall, warrior has always struggled with that. It's old version of berserker stance and healing signet resistance (plus the sustain you got from it before with defense line on top) used to give it a shot at handling condi heavy specs that output conditions that countered it: weakness/chill/poison/blind. With the amount of conditions flying out, shake it off isn't enough (what the meta uses) and mending with its long cast time.

 

You are **numerically** wrong as I have a ranger and an ele, both classes can be useful if used well but the major drawbacks of ele become more and more apparent when the min/max of stats becomes important, let's not forget that ranger has fa better **healing skills** compared to ele - better access to stability - better stunbreak and mobility - access to resistance and consistent ranger pressure to deal with kiting enemies - you are not confined to a single range making it possible to change stategies on the fly - you need to heavily invest in healing power/vitality and sustain to have any sort of bruiser build while on ranger I can get away with just toughness..not even vitality is needed

 

Tempest is a support spec...that needs babysitting the more skilled the opponent becomes and lacks mobility to top it all, you can play "support" boonbeast in WvW, you may not heal as much, but you can offer better boons and uncorruptable effects with stances, plus you're 2x harder to kill than even a full minstrel tempest, **it's not far easier** to support a bad team because to support others on a tempest using auras..you give up your main source of condi clear and have no cantrips to save your life...you die much faster when supporting a bad team because it's even easier to get focused

 

Finally you are overreacting , the birds are fine, they can deal 1-1.2k with slash/F2 when critting and that's more than fine against glass builds, on an ele you need to have marauder stats for your AA skills to do that dmg

 

You will fully realize how much ele is held back, the more you play , the more you get ganked up and the more skilled opponents you meet 1v1

[anjo.6143]

Where are the balance in all classes that many ppl are talking about?????

[Obliviscaris.6937]

> @"anjo.6143" said:

> Where are the balance in all classes that many ppl are talking about?????

 

I would also just like love a source to this so I can give it a good read! And so I can bookmark it for the future!

Hopefully it's a dev diary or something!

[Dantheman.3589]

Birds still pretty wild, gazelle is insane but so buggy that players don’t always notice, jacarandas decent so is smokescale. Overall pretty good class- ranger is very strong and soul beast can also compete on a high level, but I hear druid is trash though I thought it would be workable(haven’t tested yet so cannot say for sure)

[Abyssisis.3971]

Bird Slash now critical hits for around 770 damage in wvw with Beastmastery bonus stats.. What’s it like in pvp?

[Floppy.4936]

I agree ranger has been nerfed way too aggressively recently and is barely viable in 5v5 anymore. Ranger in 3v3 is just a joke. I no longer find this class fun to play and has very little diversity now. Time to move on to other more viable classes :/

 

Some will say this is 'balanced' however personally i feel making every class useless is not the right way to go about it.

[Zalani.9827]

> @"duster.7013" said:

> I love all the rangers and dh in 3v3 getting farmed in seconds.

I’ve noticed thief’s and mesmers aren’t doing too great either, I’ve seen some ranger builds working at least but it can be hard to kite in the arena+you better off being next your mates.

[Lighter.5631]

> @"Zalani.9827" said:

> > @"duster.7013" said:

> > I love all the rangers and dh in 3v3 getting farmed in seconds.

> I’ve noticed thief’s and mesmers aren’t doing too great either, I’ve seen some ranger builds working at least but it can be hard to kite in the arena+you better off being next your mates.

 

Most thieves i saw still plays p/d, or even d/p like wth, these are +1 builds, not team fight build, such as staff is so much better at team fighting, 6-8k vault in team fight is nasty, also destroy all the AI build or get S/P. gotta build for team fight, drop the assassin signet, get the smoke screen and seal area.

 

[Strider.7849]

> @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > @"Strider.7849" said:

> > > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > > @"DesktopAnalyst.1283" said:

> > > > I'm out. I'm sick of all the Ranger nerfs and still being 2 shotted by thieves... I have 18,000 hrs in this game and I don't want to learn a new class. Now the birds have been nerfed, twice. This class is useless now, even in PVE (which is boring AF). Also, I have only received 1 pre in 8yrs and it was a water weapon that I couldn't even use. Giving this account to my 13yr old...

> > >

> > > I don't think you can really complain about ranger when looking at the state of professions like elementalist and warrior, compared to them...ranger got away with a slap on the wrist, let's be realistic

> >

> > After the heavy nerfs rangers sustained (to the point that really only soulbeast is useable) I swapped off ranger to elementalist. Power soulbeast can work if your enemy isn't running reflects/projectile destroyers/heavy blocks and there is a lot of room to run and kite. Condi soulbeast is functional but extremely boring. Have you tried using shortbow or the other condition based weapons? what about traps? The burst is good but there's really no "outplaying" or "skillfully winning" against opponents. It's just lame condition spam that overwhelms the opponent eventually. I can tell you honestly that ele overall is in far better shape than ranger.

> >

> > My tempest heals and provides better support in both WvW and PvE. It's far easier to sustain a bad group (played it as a solo healer for strikes like whisper). Weaver has better sustain, damage, and more build options than soulbeast. The mobility isn't that bad as a roamer too, I personally run fiery greatsword as the elite, lightning flash to port, and off hand dagger has RTL. Not to mention you literally pulse heavy aoe damage.

> >

> > I get that you don't care for rangers or ranger players - but just because you don't like the class doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about overall balance. Would you like every single person to be running guardian (or insert whatever you play) because it's the only thing that's functional? Ranger's in a bad spot in all environments EXCEPT running high mobility roaming builds in WvW with soulbeast.

> >

> > Also, there's a lot of negative remarks floating around about warrior being in a tough spot. It's a condi meta overall, warrior has always struggled with that. It's old version of berserker stance and healing signet resistance (plus the sustain you got from it before with defense line on top) used to give it a shot at handling condi heavy specs that output conditions that countered it: weakness/chill/poison/blind. With the amount of conditions flying out, shake it off isn't enough (what the meta uses) and mending with its long cast time.

>

> You are **numerically** wrong as I have a ranger and an ele, both classes can be useful if used well but the major drawbacks of ele become more and more apparent when the min/max of stats becomes important, let's not forget that ranger has fa better **healing skills** compared to ele - better access to stability - better stunbreak and mobility - access to resistance and consistent ranger pressure to deal with kiting enemies - you are not confined to a single range making it possible to change stategies on the fly - you need to heavily invest in healing power/vitality and sustain to have any sort of bruiser build while on ranger I can get away with just toughness..not even vitality is needed

>

> Tempest is a support spec...that needs babysitting the more skilled the opponent becomes and lacks mobility to top it all, you can play "support" boonbeast in WvW, you may not heal as much, but you can offer better boons and uncorruptable effects with stances, plus you're 2x harder to kill than even a full minstrel tempest, **it's not far easier** to support a bad team because to support others on a tempest using auras..you give up your main source of condi clear and have no cantrips to save your life...you die much faster when supporting a bad team because it's even easier to get focused

>

> Finally you are overreacting , the birds are fine, they can deal 1-1.2k with slash/F2 when critting and that's more than fine against glass builds, on an ele you need to have marauder stats for your AA skills to do that dmg

>

> You will fully realize how much ele is held back, the more you play , the more you get ganked up and the more skilled opponents you meet 1v1

 

You're using blanket statements to compare the two, and further generalizing this with the assumption that numerically I'm wrong. Addressing healing, if you compare just the healing skill, yeah rangers is better - but you're not looking at the class overall, ele has water attunement, traits that give healing in multiple ways, and it's capable of using these skills to heal others, not only itself. I'm not saying one is better than the other in terms of healing, just they do it differently.

 

Then you go on to mention stability and that rangers have better access to it. Are you talking about soulbeast? I mean you must be (for dolyaks stance which is strong - but most soulbeast don't run the elite stability ontop), as core ranger and druid only have the elite skill which is on a long cooldown and needs to be precast, not to mention it can literally just be stolen or corrupted. It's mostly stun breaks used. Again, you specifically mentioned access to stability. Weaver gets that on every utility it takes within weaver skills, you have armor of earth/lesser armor of earth, stability on earth attunement, tempest has the option of stability on overload + stability on overloading earth. There are not only more options for stability but better access to it - depending on how you want to build your ele.

 

Next you say that Tempest needs babysitting. Is this your experience on the class? Specifically even full minstrel tempest. When I get home from work, I can literally take a screen shot of my ele, showing I'm playing full minstrel tempest as well. I just don't have the issues you are having on it, hence why I think you just have a *massive* L2P issue. Now would I go solo roaming on a full minstrel tempest, no it's a support class/build. Theres core/weaver for that.

 

Theres so much wrong in what you wrote, don't even get me started on the 1-1.2k Crits on F2 activation (on WvW it's averaging 700 damage for me btw). But keep up the ranger QQ, it's obviously working in destroying another class (like Mesmer).

[Supreme.3164]

> @"Strider.7849" said:

> > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > @"Strider.7849" said:

> > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > > > @"DesktopAnalyst.1283" said:

> > > > > I'm out. I'm sick of all the Ranger nerfs and still being 2 shotted by thieves... I have 18,000 hrs in this game and I don't want to learn a new class. Now the birds have been nerfed, twice. This class is useless now, even in PVE (which is boring AF). Also, I have only received 1 pre in 8yrs and it was a water weapon that I couldn't even use. Giving this account to my 13yr old...

> > > >

> > > > I don't think you can really complain about ranger when looking at the state of professions like elementalist and warrior, compared to them...ranger got away with a slap on the wrist, let's be realistic

> > >

> > > After the heavy nerfs rangers sustained (to the point that really only soulbeast is useable) I swapped off ranger to elementalist. Power soulbeast can work if your enemy isn't running reflects/projectile destroyers/heavy blocks and there is a lot of room to run and kite. Condi soulbeast is functional but extremely boring. Have you tried using shortbow or the other condition based weapons? what about traps? The burst is good but there's really no "outplaying" or "skillfully winning" against opponents. It's just lame condition spam that overwhelms the opponent eventually. I can tell you honestly that ele overall is in far better shape than ranger.

> > >

> > > My tempest heals and provides better support in both WvW and PvE. It's far easier to sustain a bad group (played it as a solo healer for strikes like whisper). Weaver has better sustain, damage, and more build options than soulbeast. The mobility isn't that bad as a roamer too, I personally run fiery greatsword as the elite, lightning flash to port, and off hand dagger has RTL. Not to mention you literally pulse heavy aoe damage.

> > >

> > > I get that you don't care for rangers or ranger players - but just because you don't like the class doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about overall balance. Would you like every single person to be running guardian (or insert whatever you play) because it's the only thing that's functional? Ranger's in a bad spot in all environments EXCEPT running high mobility roaming builds in WvW with soulbeast.

> > >

> > > Also, there's a lot of negative remarks floating around about warrior being in a tough spot. It's a condi meta overall, warrior has always struggled with that. It's old version of berserker stance and healing signet resistance (plus the sustain you got from it before with defense line on top) used to give it a shot at handling condi heavy specs that output conditions that countered it: weakness/chill/poison/blind. With the amount of conditions flying out, shake it off isn't enough (what the meta uses) and mending with its long cast time.

> >

> > You are **numerically** wrong as I have a ranger and an ele, both classes can be useful if used well but the major drawbacks of ele become more and more apparent when the min/max of stats becomes important, let's not forget that ranger has fa better **healing skills** compared to ele - better access to stability - better stunbreak and mobility - access to resistance and consistent ranger pressure to deal with kiting enemies - you are not confined to a single range making it possible to change stategies on the fly - you need to heavily invest in healing power/vitality and sustain to have any sort of bruiser build while on ranger I can get away with just toughness..not even vitality is needed

> >

> > Tempest is a support spec...that needs babysitting the more skilled the opponent becomes and lacks mobility to top it all, you can play "support" boonbeast in WvW, you may not heal as much, but you can offer better boons and uncorruptable effects with stances, plus you're 2x harder to kill than even a full minstrel tempest, **it's not far easier** to support a bad team because to support others on a tempest using auras..you give up your main source of condi clear and have no cantrips to save your life...you die much faster when supporting a bad team because it's even easier to get focused

> >

> > Finally you are overreacting , the birds are fine, they can deal 1-1.2k with slash/F2 when critting and that's more than fine against glass builds, on an ele you need to have marauder stats for your AA skills to do that dmg

> >

> > You will fully realize how much ele is held back, the more you play , the more you get ganked up and the more skilled opponents you meet 1v1

>

> You're using blanket statements to compare the two, and further generalizing this with the assumption that numerically I'm wrong. Addressing healing, if you compare just the healing skill, yeah rangers is better - but you're not looking at the class overall, ele has water attunement, traits that give healing in multiple ways, and it's capable of using these skills to heal others, not only itself. I'm not saying one is better than the other in terms of healing, just they do it differently.

>

> Then you go on to mention stability and that rangers have better access to it. Are you talking about soulbeast? I mean you must be (for dolyaks stance which is strong - but most soulbeast don't run the elite stability ontop), as core ranger and druid only have the elite skill which is on a long cooldown and needs to be precast, not to mention it can literally just be stolen or corrupted. It's mostly stun breaks used. Again, you specifically mentioned access to stability. Weaver gets that on every utility it takes within weaver skills, you have armor of earth/lesser armor of earth, stability on earth attunement, tempest has the option of stability on overload + stability on overloading earth. There are not only more options for stability but better access to it - depending on how you want to build your ele.

>

> Next you say that Tempest needs babysitting. Is this your experience on the class? Specifically even full minstrel tempest. When I get home from work, I can literally take a screen shot of my ele, showing I'm playing full minstrel tempest as well. I just don't have the issues you are having on it, hence why I think you just have a *massive* L2P issue. Now would I go solo roaming on a full minstrel tempest, no it's a support class/build. Theres core/weaver for that.

>

> Theres so much wrong in what you wrote, don't even get me started on the 1-1.2k Crits on F2 activation (on WvW it's averaging 700 damage for me btw). But keep up the ranger QQ, it's obviously working in destroying another class (like Mesmer).

 

-There is no more stability on stance use for weaver, the trait got nerfed

-Earth less armor of earth is on 300s CD...nobody in his right mind would take it now

 

I play both ranger and ele, been doing so for years now, I know both classes inside out..enough to know firsthand that birds do way more than 700 dmg on crit right now, ranger is in a good position right now, the damage-sustain ratio is more balanced than on ele which require bigger min/max strategy for basically the same results.

 

I specifically said that Tempest needs babysitting when supporting a bad group because you lack the mobility of a ranger tank to flee if things get too "hot" , that's all really...my personal opinion, other than druid line requiring some fixes..ranger is fine

[Widmo.3186]

> @"Strider.7849" said:

> Then you go on to mention stability and that rangers have better access to it. Are you talking about soulbeast? I mean you must be (for dolyaks stance which is strong - but most soulbeast don't run the elite stability ontop), as core ranger and druid only have the elite skill which is on a long cooldown and needs to be precast, not to mention it can literally just be stolen or corrupted. It's mostly stun breaks used. Again, you specifically mentioned access to stability. Weaver gets that on every utility it takes within weaver skills, you have armor of earth/lesser armor of earth, stability on earth attunement, tempest has the option of stability on overload + stability on overloading earth. There are not only more options for stability but better access to it - depending on how you want to build your ele.

 

-picking earth traitline on weaver

-picking lesser armor of earth

-picking armor of earth (again, as weaver)

-what utility? Lava Skin and 2x Stone Resonance. Thats all.

-then you go again to tempest

 

It seems like youre living in pararell universe. I honestly dont want to know how you "build your ele", its probably another condi bunker/tempest clown spam. If you have fun with it, good for you. but please read 25.02 patch again and stick to one spec instead of jumping weaver-tempest, two different playstyles, different traitlines, different utilities.

 

[Strider.7849]

> @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > @"Strider.7849" said:

> > > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > > @"Strider.7849" said:

> > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > > > > @"DesktopAnalyst.1283" said:

> > > > > > I'm out. I'm sick of all the Ranger nerfs and still being 2 shotted by thieves... I have 18,000 hrs in this game and I don't want to learn a new class. Now the birds have been nerfed, twice. This class is useless now, even in PVE (which is boring AF). Also, I have only received 1 pre in 8yrs and it was a water weapon that I couldn't even use. Giving this account to my 13yr old...

> > > > >

> > > > > I don't think you can really complain about ranger when looking at the state of professions like elementalist and warrior, compared to them...ranger got away with a slap on the wrist, let's be realistic

> > > >

> > > > After the heavy nerfs rangers sustained (to the point that really only soulbeast is useable) I swapped off ranger to elementalist. Power soulbeast can work if your enemy isn't running reflects/projectile destroyers/heavy blocks and there is a lot of room to run and kite. Condi soulbeast is functional but extremely boring. Have you tried using shortbow or the other condition based weapons? what about traps? The burst is good but there's really no "outplaying" or "skillfully winning" against opponents. It's just lame condition spam that overwhelms the opponent eventually. I can tell you honestly that ele overall is in far better shape than ranger.

> > > >

> > > > My tempest heals and provides better support in both WvW and PvE. It's far easier to sustain a bad group (played it as a solo healer for strikes like whisper). Weaver has better sustain, damage, and more build options than soulbeast. The mobility isn't that bad as a roamer too, I personally run fiery greatsword as the elite, lightning flash to port, and off hand dagger has RTL. Not to mention you literally pulse heavy aoe damage.

> > > >

> > > > I get that you don't care for rangers or ranger players - but just because you don't like the class doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about overall balance. Would you like every single person to be running guardian (or insert whatever you play) because it's the only thing that's functional? Ranger's in a bad spot in all environments EXCEPT running high mobility roaming builds in WvW with soulbeast.

> > > >

> > > > Also, there's a lot of negative remarks floating around about warrior being in a tough spot. It's a condi meta overall, warrior has always struggled with that. It's old version of berserker stance and healing signet resistance (plus the sustain you got from it before with defense line on top) used to give it a shot at handling condi heavy specs that output conditions that countered it: weakness/chill/poison/blind. With the amount of conditions flying out, shake it off isn't enough (what the meta uses) and mending with its long cast time.

> > >

> > > You are **numerically** wrong as I have a ranger and an ele, both classes can be useful if used well but the major drawbacks of ele become more and more apparent when the min/max of stats becomes important, let's not forget that ranger has fa better **healing skills** compared to ele - better access to stability - better stunbreak and mobility - access to resistance and consistent ranger pressure to deal with kiting enemies - you are not confined to a single range making it possible to change stategies on the fly - you need to heavily invest in healing power/vitality and sustain to have any sort of bruiser build while on ranger I can get away with just toughness..not even vitality is needed

> > >

> > > Tempest is a support spec...that needs babysitting the more skilled the opponent becomes and lacks mobility to top it all, you can play "support" boonbeast in WvW, you may not heal as much, but you can offer better boons and uncorruptable effects with stances, plus you're 2x harder to kill than even a full minstrel tempest, **it's not far easier** to support a bad team because to support others on a tempest using auras..you give up your main source of condi clear and have no cantrips to save your life...you die much faster when supporting a bad team because it's even easier to get focused

> > >

> > > Finally you are overreacting , the birds are fine, they can deal 1-1.2k with slash/F2 when critting and that's more than fine against glass builds, on an ele you need to have marauder stats for your AA skills to do that dmg

> > >

> > > You will fully realize how much ele is held back, the more you play , the more you get ganked up and the more skilled opponents you meet 1v1

> >

> > You're using blanket statements to compare the two, and further generalizing this with the assumption that numerically I'm wrong. Addressing healing, if you compare just the healing skill, yeah rangers is better - but you're not looking at the class overall, ele has water attunement, traits that give healing in multiple ways, and it's capable of using these skills to heal others, not only itself. I'm not saying one is better than the other in terms of healing, just they do it differently.

> >

> > Then you go on to mention stability and that rangers have better access to it. Are you talking about soulbeast? I mean you must be (for dolyaks stance which is strong - but most soulbeast don't run the elite stability ontop), as core ranger and druid only have the elite skill which is on a long cooldown and needs to be precast, not to mention it can literally just be stolen or corrupted. It's mostly stun breaks used. Again, you specifically mentioned access to stability. Weaver gets that on every utility it takes within weaver skills, you have armor of earth/lesser armor of earth, stability on earth attunement, tempest has the option of stability on overload + stability on overloading earth. There are not only more options for stability but better access to it - depending on how you want to build your ele.

> >

> > Next you say that Tempest needs babysitting. Is this your experience on the class? Specifically even full minstrel tempest. When I get home from work, I can literally take a screen shot of my ele, showing I'm playing full minstrel tempest as well. I just don't have the issues you are having on it, hence why I think you just have a *massive* L2P issue. Now would I go solo roaming on a full minstrel tempest, no it's a support class/build. Theres core/weaver for that.

> >

> > Theres so much wrong in what you wrote, don't even get me started on the 1-1.2k Crits on F2 activation (on WvW it's averaging 700 damage for me btw). But keep up the ranger QQ, it's obviously working in destroying another class (like Mesmer).

>

> -There is no more stability on stance use for weaver, the trait got nerfed

> -Earth less armor of earth is on 300s CD...nobody in his right mind would take it now

>

> I play both ranger and ele, been doing so for years now, I know both classes inside out..enough to know firsthand that birds do way more than 700 dmg on crit right now, ranger is in a good position right now, the damage-sustain ratio is more balanced than on ele which require bigger min/max strategy for basically the same results.

>

> I specifically said that Tempest needs babysitting when supporting a bad group because you lack the mobility of a ranger tank to flee if things get too "hot" , that's all really...my personal opinion, other than druid line requiring some fixes..ranger is fine

 

I was in error regarding that, but the overall point I'm getting to is that there are options for building in stability - your statement prior to my response was suggesting that ranger has all kinds of access to it, which it doesn't. On soulbeast because of dolyaks stance it's capable, but max 2 skills though on that spec doesn't equal a lot of stability options over ele.

 

As for tempest and fleeing, if you're zerging (with a bad zerg) I found eye of the storm and fiery greatsword is often more than enough for escaping. I'll also slot in Stability on overload rather than the might/weakness on shouts. Maybe it's the way I play it/ability, or my roaming partner, or the zergs I encounter that is making it work. I just do know that I'm finding it a stronger support option than my druid and it's build diversity overall has me playing the class more than my main.

[Strider.7849]

> @"Widmo.3186" said:

> > @"Strider.7849" said:

> > Then you go on to mention stability and that rangers have better access to it. Are you talking about soulbeast? I mean you must be (for dolyaks stance which is strong - but most soulbeast don't run the elite stability ontop), as core ranger and druid only have the elite skill which is on a long cooldown and needs to be precast, not to mention it can literally just be stolen or corrupted. It's mostly stun breaks used. Again, you specifically mentioned access to stability. Weaver gets that on every utility it takes within weaver skills, you have armor of earth/lesser armor of earth, stability on earth attunement, tempest has the option of stability on overload + stability on overloading earth. There are not only more options for stability but better access to it - depending on how you want to build your ele.

>

> -picking earth traitline on weaver

> -picking lesser armor of earth

> -picking armor of earth (again, as weaver)

> -what utility? Lava Skin and 2x Stone Resonance. Thats all.

> -then you go again to tempest

>

> It seems like youre living in pararell universe. I honestly dont want to know how you "build your ele", its probably another condi bunker/tempest clown spam. If you have fun with it, good for you. but please read 25.02 patch again and stick to one spec instead of jumping weaver-tempest, two different playstyles, different traitlines, different utilities.

>

If you reread what it was about at the top of that instead of selectively you'll see that I was talking about ele overall and went into tempest after. It was simply to point out that there was options, even if two things were in error.

 

Yes I'm having fun with my tempest. It's more fun and effective than my druid is as a support.

 

You also missed that my tempest is full minstrel in the next paragraph. This thread wasn't meant to be about ele but about ranger nerfs and their pets. The response was because the above guy was saying that ele and warrior are in far worse spots and rangers can't complain. The pet is literally tied to the character. The birds are not worth unmerging with except for getting access to pet swap traits.

[Supreme.3164]

> @"Strider.7849" said:

> > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > @"Strider.7849" said:

> > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > > > @"Strider.7849" said:

> > > > > > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > > > > > @"DesktopAnalyst.1283" said:

> > > > > > > I'm out. I'm sick of all the Ranger nerfs and still being 2 shotted by thieves... I have 18,000 hrs in this game and I don't want to learn a new class. Now the birds have been nerfed, twice. This class is useless now, even in PVE (which is boring AF). Also, I have only received 1 pre in 8yrs and it was a water weapon that I couldn't even use. Giving this account to my 13yr old...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don't think you can really complain about ranger when looking at the state of professions like elementalist and warrior, compared to them...ranger got away with a slap on the wrist, let's be realistic

> > > > >

> > > > > After the heavy nerfs rangers sustained (to the point that really only soulbeast is useable) I swapped off ranger to elementalist. Power soulbeast can work if your enemy isn't running reflects/projectile destroyers/heavy blocks and there is a lot of room to run and kite. Condi soulbeast is functional but extremely boring. Have you tried using shortbow or the other condition based weapons? what about traps? The burst is good but there's really no "outplaying" or "skillfully winning" against opponents. It's just lame condition spam that overwhelms the opponent eventually. I can tell you honestly that ele overall is in far better shape than ranger.

> > > > >

> > > > > My tempest heals and provides better support in both WvW and PvE. It's far easier to sustain a bad group (played it as a solo healer for strikes like whisper). Weaver has better sustain, damage, and more build options than soulbeast. The mobility isn't that bad as a roamer too, I personally run fiery greatsword as the elite, lightning flash to port, and off hand dagger has RTL. Not to mention you literally pulse heavy aoe damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > I get that you don't care for rangers or ranger players - but just because you don't like the class doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about overall balance. Would you like every single person to be running guardian (or insert whatever you play) because it's the only thing that's functional? Ranger's in a bad spot in all environments EXCEPT running high mobility roaming builds in WvW with soulbeast.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also, there's a lot of negative remarks floating around about warrior being in a tough spot. It's a condi meta overall, warrior has always struggled with that. It's old version of berserker stance and healing signet resistance (plus the sustain you got from it before with defense line on top) used to give it a shot at handling condi heavy specs that output conditions that countered it: weakness/chill/poison/blind. With the amount of conditions flying out, shake it off isn't enough (what the meta uses) and mending with its long cast time.

> > > >

> > > > You are **numerically** wrong as I have a ranger and an ele, both classes can be useful if used well but the major drawbacks of ele become more and more apparent when the min/max of stats becomes important, let's not forget that ranger has fa better **healing skills** compared to ele - better access to stability - better stunbreak and mobility - access to resistance and consistent ranger pressure to deal with kiting enemies - you are not confined to a single range making it possible to change stategies on the fly - you need to heavily invest in healing power/vitality and sustain to have any sort of bruiser build while on ranger I can get away with just toughness..not even vitality is needed

> > > >

> > > > Tempest is a support spec...that needs babysitting the more skilled the opponent becomes and lacks mobility to top it all, you can play "support" boonbeast in WvW, you may not heal as much, but you can offer better boons and uncorruptable effects with stances, plus you're 2x harder to kill than even a full minstrel tempest, **it's not far easier** to support a bad team because to support others on a tempest using auras..you give up your main source of condi clear and have no cantrips to save your life...you die much faster when supporting a bad team because it's even easier to get focused

> > > >

> > > > Finally you are overreacting , the birds are fine, they can deal 1-1.2k with slash/F2 when critting and that's more than fine against glass builds, on an ele you need to have marauder stats for your AA skills to do that dmg

> > > >

> > > > You will fully realize how much ele is held back, the more you play , the more you get ganked up and the more skilled opponents you meet 1v1

> > >

> > > You're using blanket statements to compare the two, and further generalizing this with the assumption that numerically I'm wrong. Addressing healing, if you compare just the healing skill, yeah rangers is better - but you're not looking at the class overall, ele has water attunement, traits that give healing in multiple ways, and it's capable of using these skills to heal others, not only itself. I'm not saying one is better than the other in terms of healing, just they do it differently.

> > >

> > > Then you go on to mention stability and that rangers have better access to it. Are you talking about soulbeast? I mean you must be (for dolyaks stance which is strong - but most soulbeast don't run the elite stability ontop), as core ranger and druid only have the elite skill which is on a long cooldown and needs to be precast, not to mention it can literally just be stolen or corrupted. It's mostly stun breaks used. Again, you specifically mentioned access to stability. Weaver gets that on every utility it takes within weaver skills, you have armor of earth/lesser armor of earth, stability on earth attunement, tempest has the option of stability on overload + stability on overloading earth. There are not only more options for stability but better access to it - depending on how you want to build your ele.

> > >

> > > Next you say that Tempest needs babysitting. Is this your experience on the class? Specifically even full minstrel tempest. When I get home from work, I can literally take a screen shot of my ele, showing I'm playing full minstrel tempest as well. I just don't have the issues you are having on it, hence why I think you just have a *massive* L2P issue. Now would I go solo roaming on a full minstrel tempest, no it's a support class/build. Theres core/weaver for that.

> > >

> > > Theres so much wrong in what you wrote, don't even get me started on the 1-1.2k Crits on F2 activation (on WvW it's averaging 700 damage for me btw). But keep up the ranger QQ, it's obviously working in destroying another class (like Mesmer).

> >

> > -There is no more stability on stance use for weaver, the trait got nerfed

> > -Earth less armor of earth is on 300s CD...nobody in his right mind would take it now

> >

> > I play both ranger and ele, been doing so for years now, I know both classes inside out..enough to know firsthand that birds do way more than 700 dmg on crit right now, ranger is in a good position right now, the damage-sustain ratio is more balanced than on ele which require bigger min/max strategy for basically the same results.

> >

> > I specifically said that Tempest needs babysitting when supporting a bad group because you lack the mobility of a ranger tank to flee if things get too "hot" , that's all really...my personal opinion, other than druid line requiring some fixes..ranger is fine

>

> I was in error regarding that, but the overall point I'm getting to is that there are options for building in stability - your statement prior to my response was suggesting that ranger has all kinds of access to it, which it doesn't. On soulbeast because of dolyaks stance it's capable, but max 2 skills though on that spec doesn't equal a lot of stability options over ele.

>

> As for tempest and fleeing, if you're zerging (with a bad zerg) I found eye of the storm and fiery greatsword is often more than enough for escaping. I'll also slot in Stability on overload rather than the might/weakness on shouts. Maybe it's the way I play it/ability, or my roaming partner, or the zergs I encounter that is making it work. I just do know that I'm finding it a stronger support option than my druid and it's build diversity overall has me playing the class more than my main.

 

No doubts that tempest better than druid but about build diversity, you can play weaver and tempest because core is useless and you can play core and soulbeast for ranger, if you want just to tag bags then you can use minstrel/cleric soulbeast with stances...extremely durable and thx to stance share and aoe regen will gain bags thx to healing contribution. When roaming the situation change as ranger clearly is superior...in the end using more than one class is the way to victory

[Abyssisis.3971]

> @"Supreme.3164" said:

> -There is no more stability on stance use for weaver, the trait got nerfed

> -Earth less armor of earth is on 300s CD...nobody in his right mind would take it now

>

> I play both ranger and ele, been doing so for years now, I know both classes inside out..enough to know firsthand that birds do way more than 700 dmg on crit right now, ranger is in a good position right now, the damage-sustain ratio is more balanced than on ele which require bigger min/max strategy for basically the same results.

>

> I specifically said that Tempest needs babysitting when supporting a bad group because you lack the mobility of a ranger tank to flee if things get too "hot" , that's all really...my personal opinion, other than druid line requiring some fixes..ranger is fine

 

770 odd damage is what I was getting with crit hits with birds in wvw against a scourge and a weaver, haven’t played too much pvp to see what sort of damage they are getting in pvp tho. Which is why I was asking...

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Abyssisis.3971" said:

> > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > -There is no more stability on stance use for weaver, the trait got nerfed

> > -Earth less armor of earth is on 300s CD...nobody in his right mind would take it now

> >

> > I play both ranger and ele, been doing so for years now, I know both classes inside out..enough to know firsthand that birds do way more than 700 dmg on crit right now, ranger is in a good position right now, the damage-sustain ratio is more balanced than on ele which require bigger min/max strategy for basically the same results.

> >

> > I specifically said that Tempest needs babysitting when supporting a bad group because you lack the mobility of a ranger tank to flee if things get too "hot" , that's all really...my personal opinion, other than druid line requiring some fixes..ranger is fine

>

> 770 odd damage is what I was getting with crit hits with birds in wvw against a scourge and a weaver, haven’t played too much pvp to see what sort of damage they are getting in pvp tho. Which is why I was asking...

 

it largely depends on the enemy, for all we know the scourge could be running full toughness gear with -10% dmg take food and some stupid pve runes that gives toughness.

In pvp last patch bird did about 4-6k dmg per auto on my glass mesmer, after the nerfs I suspect it to be around 3-4,5k I guess.

[Abyssisis.3971]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Abyssisis.3971" said:

> > > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > -There is no more stability on stance use for weaver, the trait got nerfed

> > > -Earth less armor of earth is on 300s CD...nobody in his right mind would take it now

> > >

> > > I play both ranger and ele, been doing so for years now, I know both classes inside out..enough to know firsthand that birds do way more than 700 dmg on crit right now, ranger is in a good position right now, the damage-sustain ratio is more balanced than on ele which require bigger min/max strategy for basically the same results.

> > >

> > > I specifically said that Tempest needs babysitting when supporting a bad group because you lack the mobility of a ranger tank to flee if things get too "hot" , that's all really...my personal opinion, other than druid line requiring some fixes..ranger is fine

> >

> > 770 odd damage is what I was getting with crit hits with birds in wvw against a scourge and a weaver, haven’t played too much pvp to see what sort of damage they are getting in pvp tho. Which is why I was asking...

>

> it largely depends on the enemy, for all we know the scourge could be running full toughness gear with -10% dmg take food and some stupid pve runes that gives toughness.

> In pvp last patch bird did about 4-6k dmg per auto on my glass mesmer, after the nerfs I suspect it to be around 3-4,5k I guess.

 

I’ve never seen 4-6k autoattacks outside of marksmanship damage mods, but not everyone runs marksmanship line.

[jniel.3581]

My main became a shout staff druid with an axe and horn running an armored fish, jellyfish, jacaranda and bristleback. Not the most epic build but it was a simple blast to play. I was very hard to kill, brought some decent support to the group but did not do a lot of damage just ok. I used a lot of search and rescue and people I ran with loved me for it. Again, it was just fun. Now I do not play the ranger/druid at all. The main I looked to build to be a sort of average support/healer is now garbage. Nothing was specialized about my setup. I even had a celestial items in slots because I "wasnt sure what Id be doing". Nah, they nerfed this professions again, as it was 6+ years ago, into junk. The irony is they brought a bunch of "druidish" looking new items to the store near this time. I'd have actually, just maybe, forked out for them. Oh well. I'm not buying art for something I will never look at again and if I do it will be in 6+ years (ergo I wont). Nah, I just went back to the good ol never fails never "nerfed" Necro the god of roll face on keyboard and win profession. That's not a request to nerf the necro I just wish they would stop nerfing non-specialized built to "spec" professions. Oh well, truly in this case they lost cash, even if tiny, from me for this. My druid is probably parked at least as long as the ranger was. As noted, 6ish years ago which equates to never again. Suckage. Only way it could be worse is to be running an engineer which has "nerf" in its middle name.