forum after patchnotes reveal

[Psycoprophet.8107]

This talk about thief being OP after the patch especially one this size is laughable but if course this coulda been easily guessed as who else would the community center out as the class that got the least shaved? Or who's gonna be top dog lol.

Community is so predictable it's kinda sad at this point, I wonder if the team at anet find it humorous?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Arzurag.7506" said:

> > @"Kuma.1503" said:

> > **Forums pre patch:**

> >

> > Nerf Weaver, it does too much damage and has too much sustain and has perma evades. Nerf firebrand it spams boonz and heals and makes people immortal. Nerf Mirage it's too much visual clutte-- Nerf theif why does pistol whip stun and deal damage--Nerf Warrio--Nerf Herald--Nerf--

> >

> > **Forums post patch:**

> >

> > kitten Anet why did you nerf *insert class ability here* You're obviously bad at your job. You could hire a janitor to do the job better.

> >

> > **Me:**

> >

> > *Eating popcorn on the side lines*

>

> gotta get me some of this popcorn

 

Arenanet should sell bags of popcorn that are sent to you IRL mail. And they should open the sales about 7 days before releasing patch note previews.

[JTGuevara.9018]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > Honestly, this is what I and many others wanted: a overall decrease in damage and healing output, especially to elite specializations. People who are accustomed to the current status quo are in for a BIG awakening. Bring it on, I say.

>

> I agree. Bring it. I wanted this chaos from the patch from the beginning and thats what they gave us. It needed to happen, regardless of people's distinct **emotional** reactions to it, it needed to happen.

 

Right you are! It does need to happen. I just _pray_ that developers don't cave in to those that want to keep this powercreeped, stale gameplay. That's what I fear: that people take it personally when their class and build gets shaved for the better interest of the game.

[Ultramex.1506]

Alway get a good chuckle when these competitive players throw in the towel not because of losing fights constantly but because of patches

Now, if they leave after having played patched PvP then i understand, but before the patch hit? I find them overreacting and cringe to be honest.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> This talk about thief being OP after the patch especially one this size is laughable but if course this coulda been easily guessed as who else would the community center out as the class that got the least shaved? Or who's gonna be top dog lol.

> Community is so predictable it's kinda sad at this point, I wonder if the team at anet find it humorous?

 

Psycoprophet, it will continue as long Anet allows it to be. The Community had Faith in Anet to take serious measures in dealing with especially Thief Profession including with its Toxic Stealth designs. And once again, Anet chose to intentionally continue to take us for granted by using 'marketing persuasive terminology words 'counterplay is important' as a mean to make fun of us, knowing well enough that Thief Profession is excluded from it.

 

That is nowhere funny and it is blatantly wrong!

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > This talk about thief being OP after the patch especially one this size is laughable but if course this coulda been easily guessed as who else would the community center out as the class that got the least shaved? Or who's gonna be top dog lol.

> > Community is so predictable it's kinda sad at this point, I wonder if the team at anet find it humorous?

>

> Psycoprophet, it will continue as long Anet allows it to be. The Community had Faith in Anet to take serious measures in dealing with especially Thief Profession including with its Toxic Stealth designs. And once again, Anet chose to intentionally continue to take us for granted by using 'marketing persuasive terminology words 'counterplay is important' as a mean to make fun of us, knowing well enough that Thief Profession is excluded from it.

>

> That is nowhere funny and it is blatantly wrong!

 

Itl continues cuz people are how they are. I dont like this class, this class beat me whaa. I think it's even worse because players know thief takes outplaying ur opponent to down them in a 1v1 so that burn even more to the opponent:)

Also due to the classes theme and playstyle like all rogue in all mmo spark the same kinda salt in all their forums as well from players who simply wont LEARN to fight somthing and want thief to be a easily squished bug easily swatted or deleted from game. Until every class has a significant advantage over theif in every aspect people will still whine. If thief was underperforming in all aspects but had more mobility than other classes the community would still constantly post a lot of thief is broken cuz its mobility etc. I dont even doubt it.

[Shadowbreathe.3412]

u do know we have retarded pvp comunity? what else do you expect?

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

mirage needs more nerfs pls

[Lucentfir.7430]

Welcome back to the core days, where you'll have tons of garbage options because how actually ineffective a lot of said options are in practice than on paper and permanently pigeonholed into a specific build because it's the only thing that somehow works decently. I'm calling it now, when the patch does drop it's going to feel bad and unsatisfying. You're left with little variety with dumb ineffective options like passives with 5 minute CDs, which at that point, why are you even keeping them in the game, should've just reworked them into something else with this big rework patch, and lets not forget mishandled changes like that meme change for Mirage only having 1 dodge xD.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> Welcome back to the core days, where you'll have tons of garbage options because how actually ineffective a lot of said options are in practice than on paper and permanently pigeonholed into a specific build because it's the only thing that somehow works decently. I'm calling it now, when the patch does drop it's going to feel bad and unsatisfying. You're left with little variety with dumb ineffective options like passives with 5 minute CDs, which at that point, why are you even keeping them in the game, should've just reworked them into something else with this big rework patch, and lets not forget mishandled changes like that meme change for Mirage only having 1 dodge xD.

 

The whole point of the patch was to establish a new baseline for the Competitive balance team to then work off of. Under the new dynamic the patch will likely establish they will then be able to change, either increase or decrease or do reworks, within **that** environment rather than do a bunch of bandaid changes that result in having no effect in the environment we have now.

 

Thats how much of an absolute power crept **mess** the game has been. They **needed** to break things down and make a mess of things so they can then build from a different foundation to a hopefully better outcome in the long term.

 

In regards to the 5 minute ICD passives, myself and at least a few others, as far as I know, are of the belief that they did that so that these passives would fall out of use for a long enough period of time so that they can rework the traits to new ones that might actually fit better in the new environment they are trying to foster and grow.

 

People need to **stop** only looking at this as if these are only meant to affect thee short term. They are meant to affect a longer term endeavor to change balance in the game. The devs have even said that the changes and the work would **not** stop with just this patch releasing and that incremental changes over time will be important. They needed this as a foundation to work from.

[JTGuevara.9018]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> > Welcome back to the core days, where you'll have tons of garbage options because how actually ineffective a lot of said options are in practice than on paper and permanently pigeonholed into a specific build because it's the only thing that somehow works decently. I'm calling it now, when the patch does drop it's going to feel bad and unsatisfying. You're left with little variety with dumb ineffective options like passives with 5 minute CDs, which at that point, why are you even keeping them in the game, should've just reworked them into something else with this big rework patch, and lets not forget mishandled changes like that meme change for Mirage only having 1 dodge xD.

>

> The whole point of the patch was to establish a new baseline for the Competitive balance team to then work off of. Under the new dynamic the patch will likely establish they will then be able to change, either increase or decrease or do reworks, within **that** environment rather than do a bunch of bandaid changes that result in having no effect in the environment we have now.

>

> Thats how much of an absolute power crept **mess** the game has been. They **needed** to break things down and make a mess of things so they can then build from a different foundation to a hopefully better outcome in the long term.

>

> In regards to the 5 minute ICD passives, myself and at least a few others, as far as I know, are of the belief that they did that so that these passives would fall out of use for a long enough period of time so that they can rework the traits to new ones that might actually fit better in the new environment they are trying to foster and grow.

>

> People need to **stop** only looking at this as if these are only meant to affect thee short term. They are meant to affect a longer term endeavor to change balance in the game. The devs have even said that the changes and the work would **not** stop with just this patch releasing and that incremental changes over time will be important. They needed this as a foundation to work from.

 

Hah! I'll say. People are such short-term thinkers. Nobody said this update was going to be a panacea, but just a good, solid base to start from.

[Lucentfir.7430]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> > Welcome back to the core days, where you'll have tons of garbage options because how actually ineffective a lot of said options are in practice than on paper and permanently pigeonholed into a specific build because it's the only thing that somehow works decently. I'm calling it now, when the patch does drop it's going to feel bad and unsatisfying. You're left with little variety with dumb ineffective options like passives with 5 minute CDs, which at that point, why are you even keeping them in the game, should've just reworked them into something else with this big rework patch, and lets not forget mishandled changes like that meme change for Mirage only having 1 dodge xD.

>

> The whole point of the patch was to establish a new baseline for the Competitive balance team to then work off of. Under the new dynamic the patch will likely establish they will then be able to change, either increase or decrease or do reworks, within **that** environment rather than do a bunch of bandaid changes that result in having no effect in the environment we have now.

>

> Thats how much of an absolute power crept **mess** the game has been. They **needed** to break things down and make a mess of things so they can then build from a different foundation to a hopefully better outcome in the long term.

>

> In regards to the 5 minute ICD passives, myself and at least a few others, as far as I know, are of the belief that they did that so that these passives would fall out of use for a long enough period of time so that they can rework the traits to new ones that might actually fit better in the new environment they are trying to foster and grow.

>

> People need to **stop** only looking at this as if these are only meant to affect thee short term. They are meant to affect a longer term endeavor to change balance in the game. The devs have even said that the changes and the work would **not** stop with just this patch releasing and that incremental changes over time will be important. They needed this as a foundation to work from.

 

> @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> > > Welcome back to the core days, where you'll have tons of garbage options because how actually ineffective a lot of said options are in practice than on paper and permanently pigeonholed into a specific build because it's the only thing that somehow works decently. I'm calling it now, when the patch does drop it's going to feel bad and unsatisfying. You're left with little variety with dumb ineffective options like passives with 5 minute CDs, which at that point, why are you even keeping them in the game, should've just reworked them into something else with this big rework patch, and lets not forget mishandled changes like that meme change for Mirage only having 1 dodge xD.

> >

> > The whole point of the patch was to establish a new baseline for the Competitive balance team to then work off of. Under the new dynamic the patch will likely establish they will then be able to change, either increase or decrease or do reworks, within **that** environment rather than do a bunch of bandaid changes that result in having no effect in the environment we have now.

> >

> > Thats how much of an absolute power crept **mess** the game has been. They **needed** to break things down and make a mess of things so they can then build from a different foundation to a hopefully better outcome in the long term.

> >

> > In regards to the 5 minute ICD passives, myself and at least a few others, as far as I know, are of the belief that they did that so that these passives would fall out of use for a long enough period of time so that they can rework the traits to new ones that might actually fit better in the new environment they are trying to foster and grow.

> >

> > People need to **stop** only looking at this as if these are only meant to affect thee short term. They are meant to affect a longer term endeavor to change balance in the game. The devs have even said that the changes and the work would **not** stop with just this patch releasing and that incremental changes over time will be important. They needed this as a foundation to work from.

>

> Hah! I'll say. People are such short-term thinkers. Nobody said this update was going to be a panacea, but just a good, solid base to start from.

 

Balance is a symptom, not the disease of a near dead game mode. Long term planning/thinking is normally better for a game that's still fairly healthy/growing population and showing promise. Not so much when it's already on the death throes. This patch isn't going to be what everyone expects it to be, fresh start, the start of good balancing. Proper PvP. All you're going to have to show for it, is more waiting for the following months like usual, minuscule changes and if it's anything like typical anet fashion balance oversights which are almost guaranteed to show up in a patch as large as this. So going back to a time where we have ineffective garbage options with very little impact with little diversity, and then more waiting and hoping. While still waiting for actual changes and additions the games mode needs. But hey if it turns out different in the coming 'future' and it does revitalize the 'competative' side of the game and changes and tweaks come out at a decently quick pace. I'll applaud them and give them credit for pulling off a astronomical feat of actually kicking things into high gear repair.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> > > Welcome back to the core days, where you'll have tons of garbage options because how actually ineffective a lot of said options are in practice than on paper and permanently pigeonholed into a specific build because it's the only thing that somehow works decently. I'm calling it now, when the patch does drop it's going to feel bad and unsatisfying. You're left with little variety with dumb ineffective options like passives with 5 minute CDs, which at that point, why are you even keeping them in the game, should've just reworked them into something else with this big rework patch, and lets not forget mishandled changes like that meme change for Mirage only having 1 dodge xD.

> >

> > The whole point of the patch was to establish a new baseline for the Competitive balance team to then work off of. Under the new dynamic the patch will likely establish they will then be able to change, either increase or decrease or do reworks, within **that** environment rather than do a bunch of bandaid changes that result in having no effect in the environment we have now.

> >

> > Thats how much of an absolute power crept **mess** the game has been. They **needed** to break things down and make a mess of things so they can then build from a different foundation to a hopefully better outcome in the long term.

> >

> > In regards to the 5 minute ICD passives, myself and at least a few others, as far as I know, are of the belief that they did that so that these passives would fall out of use for a long enough period of time so that they can rework the traits to new ones that might actually fit better in the new environment they are trying to foster and grow.

> >

> > People need to **stop** only looking at this as if these are only meant to affect thee short term. They are meant to affect a longer term endeavor to change balance in the game. The devs have even said that the changes and the work would **not** stop with just this patch releasing and that incremental changes over time will be important. They needed this as a foundation to work from.

>

> > @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> > > > Welcome back to the core days, where you'll have tons of garbage options because how actually ineffective a lot of said options are in practice than on paper and permanently pigeonholed into a specific build because it's the only thing that somehow works decently. I'm calling it now, when the patch does drop it's going to feel bad and unsatisfying. You're left with little variety with dumb ineffective options like passives with 5 minute CDs, which at that point, why are you even keeping them in the game, should've just reworked them into something else with this big rework patch, and lets not forget mishandled changes like that meme change for Mirage only having 1 dodge xD.

> > >

> > > The whole point of the patch was to establish a new baseline for the Competitive balance team to then work off of. Under the new dynamic the patch will likely establish they will then be able to change, either increase or decrease or do reworks, within **that** environment rather than do a bunch of bandaid changes that result in having no effect in the environment we have now.

> > >

> > > Thats how much of an absolute power crept **mess** the game has been. They **needed** to break things down and make a mess of things so they can then build from a different foundation to a hopefully better outcome in the long term.

> > >

> > > In regards to the 5 minute ICD passives, myself and at least a few others, as far as I know, are of the belief that they did that so that these passives would fall out of use for a long enough period of time so that they can rework the traits to new ones that might actually fit better in the new environment they are trying to foster and grow.

> > >

> > > People need to **stop** only looking at this as if these are only meant to affect thee short term. They are meant to affect a longer term endeavor to change balance in the game. The devs have even said that the changes and the work would **not** stop with just this patch releasing and that incremental changes over time will be important. They needed this as a foundation to work from.

> >

> > Hah! I'll say. People are such short-term thinkers. Nobody said this update was going to be a panacea, but just a good, solid base to start from.

>

> Balance is a symptom, not the disease of a near dead game mode. Long term planning/thinking is normally better for a game that's still fairly healthy/growing population and showing promise. Not so much when it's already on the death throes. This patch isn't going to be what everyone expects it to be, fresh start, the start of good balancing. Proper PvP. All you're going to have to show for it, is more waiting for the following months like usual, minuscule changes and if it's anything like typical anet fashion balance oversights which are almost guaranteed to show up in a patch as large as this. So going back to a time where we have ineffective garbage options with very little impact with little diversity, and then more waiting and hoping. While still waiting for actual changes and additions the games mode needs. But hey if it turns out different in the coming 'future' and it does revitalize the 'competative' side of the game and changes and tweaks come out at a decently quick pace. I'll applaud them and give them credit for pulling off a astronomical feat of actually kicking things into high gear repair.

 

You point all of these things out and are complaining about the approach, but what would you rather they do? Leave things as is? Just do the same thing that **has not been working**? You say the approach is flawed, but what do you actually think the alternative would realistically be? You've offered no ideas on it, you have only complained about it. If you want to give constructive feedback...make it **actually** constructive.

[Lucentfir.7430]

No, I'm saying that's exactly what's going to happen. They're going to continue on with the same balancing strategy; leaving things the way they are for months at a time after they drop this patch, and when they do finally patch they'll be small underwhelming changes/tweaks, leaving things in a pitiful state per usual. Then more waiting to to 'see' how changes pan out. Balance is one thing but people shouldn't look at this as the savior patch of PvP and WvW for the long term because they're de-power creeping the game. people are going to be left with some bad fundamental blanket changes, and again in the waiting room. (i seriously doubt they took a deep dive look into every class for appropriate balancing consideration, which should be obvious from the look of a lot of the changes.)

 

 

I'm not against scaling things down by a large portion and I welcome it, but the way they're approaching some of these changes like pretty much zero damage on all CC , and ripping any form of competative skill or trait choices (diversity) makes me think they're scaling damage too far back. to where core Gw2 probably had more damage than this one one will have. Core at least had more options in terms of sigil choices(I remember the main stays used to be Air/Fire) for damage and there was damage on CC skills too. This patch bringing up CDs and hefty boon duration cuts. dragging down damage even further by touching the values/scaling with said damage stats . TTK is going up drastically even with sustain nerfs, people will only look at the amount of healing someone is doing but completely under mind how much survivablity comes from kiting, mobility, and raw defensive stats etc. With changes like this I think we're going to be returning to a very bunker-y/tanky meta and everything is going to take too long to kill. Best i could say is for them to rethink the blanket CC damage nerf (rethink the values) But at this point it doesn't matter, they'll push out the patch and everyone will see for themselves.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"Lucentfir.7430" said:

> No, I'm saying that's exactly what's going to happen. They're going to continue on with the same balancing strategy; leaving things the way they are for months at a time after they drop this patch, and when they do finally patch they'll be small underwhelming changes/tweaks, leaving things in a pitiful state per usual. Then more waiting to to 'see' how changes pan out. Balance is one thing but people shouldn't look at this as the savior patch of PvP and WvW for the long term because they're de-power creeping the game. people are going to be left with some bad fundamental blanket changes, and again in the waiting room. (i seriously doubt they took a deep dive look into every class for appropriate balancing consideration, which should be obvious from the look of a lot of the changes.)

>

>

> I'm not against scaling things down by a large portion and I welcome it, but the way they're approaching some of these changes like pretty much zero damage on all CC , and ripping any form of competative skill or trait choices (diversity) makes me think they're scaling damage too far back. to where core Gw2 probably had more damage than this one one will have. Core at least had more options in terms of sigil choices(I remember the main stays used to be Air/Fire) for damage and there was damage on CC skills too. This patch bringing up CDs and hefty boon duration cuts. dragging down damage even further by touching the values/scaling with said damage stats . TTK is going up drastically even with sustain nerfs, people will only look at the amount of healing someone is doing but completely under mind how much survivablity comes from kiting, mobility, and raw defensive stats etc. With changes like this I think we're going to be returning to a very bunker-y/tanky meta and everything is going to take too long to kill. Best i could say is for them to rethink the blanket CC damage nerf (rethink the values) But at this point it doesn't matter, they'll push out the patch and everyone will see for themselves.

 

Yeah, of course their release pace in the past has been **very** slow. However we have to wait and see if they stick to their intention to do balance updates every 4-6 weeks like it says in the thread, with smaller tweaks in between. Thats a much, much better timeframe than every 3 to 4 months. If they can stick to that then we'll see where things go.

 

I understand being skeptical, but be reasonable at the same time. We don't know yet how it will turn out and we don't know yet if they will actually keep to the speedier release cadence. We'll see.