Bunker stats after patch

[blazefm.1693]

Power & Sustain is getting really nerf (good thing) but i cant see any nerf to condi compare to those (may i missed em?) and, worst, stats like trailbrazer / minstrels / dire / apothecary and others (make condi OP) still gonna exist after patch so power classes are gonna hit less but condi counter parts are gonna survive more often, Anet have said anything about WvW stats? they 've done it on PvP b4

[Aeolus.3615]

People will have to have more stuff in their skill bar besides 7 damage skills.

 

There’s a lot of condi cleanse In game :/

[blazefm.1693]

They gonna nerf 60% of the condi cleanse too and the only thing that make power kill condi was that power used to kill faster...... Anyway just to make an example, combine trailblazer with apothecary and u get 1500 condi + 2000 +tough +1000 vit + 700 healing ... add food that reduce % inc damage ... power is gonna be kinda useless

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"blazefm.1693" said:

> They gonna nerf 60% of the condi cleanse too and the only thing that make power kill condi was that power used to kill faster...... Anyway just to make an example, combine trailblazer with apothecary and u get 1500 condi + 2000 +tough +1000 vit + 700 healing ... add food that reduce % inc damage ... power is gonna be kinda useless

 

Maybe for the first few weeks.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

sigil of cleansing.

rune of antitoxin.

 

but it probably won't come to that cuz condi skills are being changed from burst back to more over time-ish. still some burst but not as bad. this is more likely to happen to pvp since the two dandy mods aforementioned don't exist there.

[blazefm.1693]

sigil of cleansing (helps alot) and not everyone runs rune of antitoxin, and to point out roaming/havok scene, those cleansing methods are not enought against condi builds with trailbrazers stats... it sure helps but what a power roamer had to do to kill those tanks was kite and try to sustain with rotations but sustain and rotation has more cd and you do less dmg and they have ALOT of toughness .... dont get me wrong ... im not worry about condi pressure or lack of condi cleansing, im worry about how power user that has less power now ... are gonna handle Condi build with alot of toughness which is TOTALLY viable in WvW. Maybe power builds are dead in WvW?

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"blazefm.1693" said:

> sigil of cleansing (helps alot) and not everyone runs rune of antitoxin, and to point out roaming/havok scene, those cleansing methods are not enought against condi builds with trailbrazers stats... it sure helps but what a power roamer had to do to kill those tanks was kite and try to sustain with rotations but sustain and rotation has more cd and you do less dmg and they have ALOT of toughness .... dont get me wrong ... im not worry about condi pressure or lack of condi cleansing, im worry about how power user that has less power now ... are gonna handle Condi build with alot of toughness which is TOTALLY viable in WvW. Maybe power builds are dead in WvW?

 

Not really, skills will manage to hit 2-4k.... I don’t see a lack of damage problem there, some will still hit over 5k.. or way more.

 

Players will have to play batter and have more dedicated gear for build objectives.

[blazefm.1693]

a necro full trailbrazer gets 28k HP+2.1k tough+1.6kcondi+ (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSQAYlVAmJW0W2PVA-zVJYkRBfQkXAOzy7PbA-w) and a power user hits for 2-4k with burst dmg ... asuming both have skills... the stats will carry a condi user

[subversiontwo.7501]

> @"blazefm.1693" said:

> Power & Sustain is getting really nerf (good thing) but i cant see any nerf to condi compare to those (may i missed em?) and, worst, stats like trailbrazer / minstrels / dire / apothecary and others (make condi OP) still gonna exist after patch so power classes are gonna hit less but condi counter parts are gonna survive more often, Anet have said anything about WvW stats? they 've done it on PvP b4

Your thread is similar to other recent threads in that it is a good discussion to raise and there are concerns with conditions that are valid to talk about but its also important to think about what the stated goals of the changes are (so what is said) and what you say.

Most of the condition stuff isn't getting nerfed as hard but it is nonetheless getting changed. While power is seeing coefficient reductions (but not base values to the same degree, meaning they will scale worse with gear) conditions are getting stacking reductions but instead of being straight up nerfs they are shifting stacks to durations. An ability that does the same damage but over twice the time is obviously more susceptible to cleanses (it makes your cooldowns comparatively shorter).

 

The other stuff is more interesting to be honest. That conditions require less offensive stats to be offensively powerful has been a known topic of discussion since vanilla. So things like Minstrel or Apothecary are perhaps not as much a question but there is certainly a valid discussion talking about things like Dire or Blazer. Even very offensive hybrid gear like Viper and the like have shown issues with the difficulty of balancing them in the past because conditions can become very powerful with little stat-investment on certain classes. That's not the same as them being problems, I'm just saying that there is a valid discussion there with a history of balance issues (that stem from the stat sets just being difficult to balance) and that it is easier to understand concerns regarding them.

 

The big discussion when it comes to conditions post-patch however is the question of scaling and overall condition-to-cleanse balance. Anet will obviously (or, well, hopefully) actively track and adjust those things. There are similar concerns with control effects both over hard CC and rips to stab and break or with debilitating conditions to cleanses however the most urgent looming issue for most people are concerns with an epi-meta resurfacing since regardless if burst comes down at smaller scales, 50 people adding conditions at the same time is still a stack of 50. Things will ramp up. Again the concern is the same with control effects: If it is overabundant that will obviously impact how fun it is to play and how much agency you feel that you have. Even if you can tank more in CC it is obviously not fun to be stuck too much. People just have an easier time to remember and relate to issues with overbearing condition damage since it was broken twice in the past two-three years.

 

Even if that concern is more logical and thus more valid we still don't know how everything will play out.

 

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Feb 25th will be a kitten show - the Devs have skirted around it, but have basically said as much. They are hitting the reset button on everything, and builds/abilities that are currently a joke are still getting nerfed because ANET is trying to establish a baseline. From there, they will tweak as they go. They say they will do so rapidly, and we'll have to see what that looks like.

 

But next tuesday there will be no 'meta'. There will be some builds that are clearly going to perform better than others, but that might last only until the next patch (or even hotfix).

 

So really, just stop worrying about it, since pretty much everything anyone thinks they know will happen is likely to be either wrong, or will change in rapid fashion anyways.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"blazefm.1693" said:

> Power & Sustain is getting really nerf (good thing) but i cant see any nerf to condi compare to those (may i missed em?) and, worst, stats like trailbrazer / minstrels / dire / apothecary and others (make condi OP) still gonna exist after patch so power classes are gonna hit less but condi counter parts are gonna survive more often, Anet have said anything about WvW stats? they 've done it on PvP b4

 

Just a quick one, Minstrel doesn't offer any Condi stats

[blazefm.1693]

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> Feb 25th will be a kitten show - the Devs have skirted around it, but have basically said as much. They are hitting the reset button on everything, and builds/abilities that are currently a joke are still getting nerfed because ANET is trying to establish a baseline. From there, they will tweak as they go. They say they will do so rapidly, and we'll have to see what that looks like.

>

> But next tuesday there will be no 'meta'. There will be some builds that are clearly going to perform better than others, but that might last only until the next patch (or even hotfix).

>

> So really, just stop worrying about it, since pretty much everything anyone thinks they know will happen is likely to be either wrong, or will change in rapid fashion anyways.

 

Yeah, but im afraid that they may have forgotten to restart some stats ... and about Minstrel yeah it doesnt have condi stats but the only thing that was able to kill a Minstrel on havok/roaming scene was power creep... condi mostly couldnt kill since most of minstrel build have a lot of condi cleanse..

[Dawdler.8521]

A power skill gets gets a 25% reduction in power coeffiecient - "**OMG why is power getting nerfed hard?!?!**"

 

A condi skill gets gets a 75% reduction in damage due to duration reduction - "**OMG why isnt condi getting nerfed hard?!?!**"

 

Does it affect all skills? No. But then neither does the power nerfs to the extent people think they are. A skill that today can max out at ~12k damage isnt exactly starved for damage by doing ~8k after the patch, *is it*?

[Ertrak.9506]

It's been said before again and again, most conditions builds actually have to have the stats like trailblazers to even be viable so they can actually achieve the playstyle of grinding an opponent down over time. Its classes like mirage, and theives with evansion/stealth or other active mitigation that create problems with the stat set, not the stat-sets themselves. Classes/builds like necro and revenant need the tankiness from gear like trailblazer/dire as they dont have many active means of damage mitigation, other than basically face tanking with damage reduction. You could make the argument Revenant does with shiro, and i would agree but its evasion *is* being nerfed so the point is moot.

 

Also as others have said, condition cleanses, other than firebrand, aren't really being toned down. See minstrel scrapper.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"blazefm.1693" said:

> and a power user hits for 2-4k with burst dmg

 

no lol, unless the build is bad.

 

[MELORD.5013]

cmc said that if there is a broken build out there they will take care of it in time

[God.2708]

Any condi meta will instantly self counter itself since anti-toxin rune still exists. Slap that on every member of your squad (especially since half of them are trying to deal condi damage and it makes sense) and you become immortal vs conditions. Then realize you can't kill the other group that has done the same and realize you have to make power damage sacrifices somewhere or somehow.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"blazefm.1693" said:

> a necro full trailbrazer gets 28k HP+2.1k tough+1.6kcondi+ (http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSQAYlVAmJW0W2PVA-zVJYkRBfQkXAOzy7PbA-w) and a power user hits for 2-4k with burst dmg ... asuming both have skills... the stats will carry a condi user

1) Every condi skill has a direct damage component, which is nerfed for at least 30% (the trailblazer direct damage will move to non existent).

2) Might generation is nerfed and so is condi damage (might affects condi damage).

3) Condi skills are nerfed. (*)

 

(*) Your build in the link is a good example. Balance Patch Notes regarding your build:

- Manifest Sand Shade: Reduced power coefficient from 0.666 to 0.1. Reduced torment duration from 2 seconds to 1 second.

- Grasping Dead: Adjusted bleeding from 3 stacks for 10 seconds to 2 stacks for 12 seconds. Reduced cripple duration from 7 seconds to 5 seconds. Reduced power coefficient from 0.8 to 0.6

- Feast of Corruption: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.75. Reduced number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1

- Oppressive Collapse: Reduced power coefficient from 1.2 to 0.01. Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds

- Barbed Precision: Reduced bleeding duration from 2 seconds to 1 second

- Weakening Shroud: Reduced weakness duration from 5 seconds to 2.5 seconds

- Dhuumfire (with the Scourge specialization equipped only): Reduced burning duration from 3 seconds to 1 second

- Fell Beacon: Reduced condition damage to expertise conversion from 7% to 4%

- Sadistic Searing: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds

- Demonic Lore: Reduced burning duration from 3 seconds to 1 second

 

Did you read the patch notes? If yes, then why do I see condi nerfs all over the place and you don't?

 

[Justine.6351]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> A power skill gets gets a 25% reduction in power coeffiecient - "**OMG why is power getting nerfed hard?!?!**"

>

> A condi skill gets gets a 75% reduction in damage due to duration reduction - "**OMG why isnt condi getting nerfed hard?!?!**"

>

> Does it affect all skills? No. But then neither does the power nerfs to the extent people think they are. A skill that today can max out at ~12k damage isnt exactly starved for damage by doing ~8k after the patch, *is it*?

 

Yeah those power skills won't be starved too much except of course the ones that went to no damage. Ah well, guess I get back to aoe burning people for 5-10k per second on my condi dh.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > A power skill gets gets a 25% reduction in power coeffiecient - "**OMG why is power getting nerfed hard?!?!**"

> >

> > A condi skill gets gets a 75% reduction in damage due to duration reduction - "**OMG why isnt condi getting nerfed hard?!?!**"

> >

> > Does it affect all skills? No. But then neither does the power nerfs to the extent people think they are. A skill that today can max out at ~12k damage isnt exactly starved for damage by doing ~8k after the patch, *is it*?

>

> Yeah those power skills won't be starved too much except of course the ones that went to no damage. Ah well, guess I get back to aoe burning people for 5-10k per second on my condi dh.

Yeah in the meantime I'll get back to having more than half the dps cut on my blowtorch :(

 

I am certain that Anet will miss condi builds that are still OP, but I am equally certain they will miss power builds that are still OP.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > A power skill gets gets a 25% reduction in power coeffiecient - "**OMG why is power getting nerfed hard?!?!**"

> > >

> > > A condi skill gets gets a 75% reduction in damage due to duration reduction - "**OMG why isnt condi getting nerfed hard?!?!**"

> > >

> > > Does it affect all skills? No. But then neither does the power nerfs to the extent people think they are. A skill that today can max out at ~12k damage isnt exactly starved for damage by doing ~8k after the patch, *is it*?

> >

> > Yeah those power skills won't be starved too much except of course the ones that went to no damage. Ah well, guess I get back to aoe burning people for 5-10k per second on my condi dh.

> Yeah in the meantime I'll get back to having more than half the dps cut on my blowtorch :(

>

> I am certain that Anet will miss condi builds that are still OP, but I am equally certain they will miss power builds that are still OP.

 

Yeah, they better get on top of nerfing lava font some more...Oh wait...

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Classes that bring condi cleanse for the zerg:

 

Firebrand

 

Spellbreaker

 

Tempest

 

Scourge and Reaper

 

Scrapper

 

There is more then enough

[Hannelore.8153]

I can't remember the last time I died to a condi build. I think a burn Guard killed me the other day, but dying in a few seconds to a few10k burn ticks is no different than how I explode from any kind of Power damage so I didn't really notice.

 

Condi is avoidable, and you can cleanse it, and you can mitigate it heavily if not. Power will always be king.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> A power skill gets gets a 25% reduction in power coeffiecient - "**OMG why is power getting nerfed hard?!?!**"

>

> A condi skill gets gets a 75% reduction in damage due to duration reduction - "**OMG why isnt condi getting nerfed hard?!?!**"

>

> Does it affect all skills? No. But then neither does the power nerfs to the extent people think they are. A skill that today can max out at ~12k damage isnt exactly starved for damage by doing ~8k after the patch, *is it*?

 

 

Pretty much this, damage will still happen....

 

But....

Many players needed those 10k straight buttons ... cause damage = skill, right?

 

[kialb.2098]

it's why wvw is so braindead, because this kind of stat.(minstrel,trailblazer...)