nerf stealth

[appelflap.8310]

So with the upcoming patch perma stealth will still be in play. Anet kept talking about counterplay but permastealth has very few counters like reveal for example but that isnt enough. You clearly dont know how or you guys havent even tried to fix this so here is my solution: let players get damage over time (a good amount of dmg per sec since shadow's rejuvenation exists) when they are in stealth after a few seconds (let's say after 2-3 secs in stealth) so players with stealth will have to choose to be aggressive or not. Ppl in stealth are already rewarded for going stealth (enemy got no vision, player in stealth wait for cooldowns, shadow arts thiefs regen health, cleanse condis, etc...), isnt it time they getting punsihed for going stealth for so long? Stealth has been an issue since day 1 and you guys havent even tried to fix it, so pls consider this solution i think it will be good change for a start.

[Dzheen.5291]

Sure, but only if mesmer get good ammount of damage for each summoned clone.

Stealth, clones and etc are core mechanics of classes. Punishing players for using core mechanics it's very bad idea.

[saerni.2584]

Perma stealth only works as a viable choice if one shot damage is also available.

 

They nerfed several sources of stealth and damage. So you are less likely to run into a permastealth build and it is even less likely going to be able to kill you (which if it can may then be the subject of further nerfs assuming your build isn’t glass).

 

Stealth is fine.

[kash.9213]

I'm sure you're only half serious and kind of trolling. We're not devs, our suggestions haven't seemed to interest them much. Hang around some blob fights for awhile or something and watch people go in and out of stealth of any class and what that looks like.

[fluffdragon.1523]

It's almost like mesmer players forget they used to be the kings of denial and shutdown back in the days of enchantments and hexes.

 

Just get your team -- since you appear to be a PvP / WvW player -- to lay down some AOE and force a stealthed foe to either waste its advantage by retreating or betray itself by setting off traps and marks. Your Ranger, Necromancer, and Elementalist buddies (or your Dragonhunter) will be more than happy to do so.

 

... or, you know, watch for all of the tells of "perma-stealth" builds where they refresh constantly and leave effects behind, and just drop a pile of AOE on that.

[pureskullz.7536]

> @"appelflap.8310" said:

> So with the upcoming patch perma stealth will still be in play. Anet kept talking about counterplay but permastealth has very few counters like reveal for example but that isnt enough. You clearly dont know how or you guys havent even tried to fix this so here is my solution: let players get damage over time (a good amount of dmg per sec since shadow's rejuvenation exists) when they are in stealth after a few seconds (let's say after 2-3 secs in stealth) so players with stealth will have to choose to be aggressive or not. Ppl in stealth are already rewarded for going stealth (enemy got no vision, player in stealth wait for cooldowns, shadow arts thiefs regen health, cleanse condis, etc...), isnt it time they getting punsihed for going stealth for so long? Stealth has been an issue since day 1 and you guys havent even tried to fix it, so pls consider this solution i think it will be good change for a start.

 

It's not the stealth that's the issue with permastealth. Stealth provides a lot of defensive play which allows a thief to utilize skills that would otherwise be a no go. The issue with permastealth is the easy one shot so the whole problem would be fixed just by lowering the coefficients that cause one-shots. My advice for how to counter stealth is to abuse terrain, utilize reveals if you can, or just run away. Honestly, a thief's main strength is disengagement so if you're staying in that fight and giving them the time to outplay you than it is your fault. Anyways, Good luck with your fights and have a good day.

[bluri.2653]

how about we buff stealth instead so we can cap nodes while in stealth

[Yasai.3549]

Stealth doesn't always go hand in hand with one shots.

 

One shot DEs have become less of a threat ever since DE got hardcore nerfed.

 

They still abuse Stealth and by doing so, they hide in Keeps, often doing so just to portal people in which again, is the worst mistake Anet has done. (Who the hell thought that the solution to porting mesmers is to give the perma stealth class a port instead)

 

In combat, DE still does a chunk of health per DJ and follow up triple tap.

They fail to kill anyone, Stealth and try again.

 

The fact they can infinitely Stealth and reset over and over is just unfun to fight against.

I think there is a huge problem if a DE can somehow make it past several Tier 3 towers with detection and sit outside yur spawn shooting people.

 

 

[Valar Dotalis.6409]

So with the upcoming patch clones will still be in play. Anet kept talking about counterplay but shatters has very few counters like dodge for example but that isnt enough. You clearly dont know how or you guys havent even tried to fix this so here is my solution: let players get damage over time (a good amount of dmg per sec since distortion exists) when they make clones after a few seconds (let's say after 2-3 secs with a clone) so players with clones will have to choose to be aggressive or not. Ppl with clones are already rewarded for having clones (enemy got no target, player in distortion wait for cooldowns, shatters regen health, cleanse condis, etc...), isnt it time they getting punsihed for making clones for so long? Clones has been an issue since day 1 and you guys havent even tried to fix it, so pls consider this solution i think it will be good change for a start.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> Stealth doesn't always go hand in hand with one shots.

>

> One shot DEs have become less of a threat ever since DE got hardcore nerfed.

>

> They still abuse Stealth and by doing so, they hide in Keeps, often doing so just to portal people in which again, is the worst mistake Anet has done. (Who the hell thought that the solution to porting mesmers is to give the perma stealth class a port instead)

>

> In combat, DE still does a chunk of health per DJ and follow up triple tap.

> They fail to kill anyone, Stealth and try again.

>

> The fact they can infinitely Stealth and reset over and over is just unfun to fight against.

> I think there is a huge problem if a DE can somehow make it past several Tier 3 towers with detection and sit outside yur spawn shooting people.

>

>

 

The keep thing is silly, yeah, though I would say the issue isnt with the Portal. There should be a better way of sweeping the Keep than just poking around and hoping you can get the thief. The Portal itself is actually a pretty cool and fine skill.

 

In combat, the DE should never hit a DJ (its the most telegraphed skill in the game, unless youre out of dodges, blocks and invulns all at the same time, you should only be hit by it if youre lagging hard or straight up AFK), and no DE is ever going to use Triple Tap (its lower damage and stacks malice less quickly than Skirmishers Shot. Which given that the best build uses Malificent Seven is a big downside). And if the DE is using Shadow Arts, they should straight up not be a threat to you at all.

 

I mean, Thief has to be able to reset over and over, given that it cant actually win any fair 1v1s. Thats kinda the point. They paid everything for their mobility. You cant expect them to lose it too. Sides, its not like Warrior has any trouble resetting a fight either, in fact in most WvW scenarios theyre better (Warrior on Flat Ground is unbeatable, and most 1v1s happen on relatively flat ground).

[fluffdragon.1523]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> I mean, Thief has to be able to reset over and over, given that it cant actually win any fair 1v1s.

 

Anyone else remember [when Thief was described as "deadly in 1-on-1 combat"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Thief&oldid=454790)?

 

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"fluffdragon.1523" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > I mean, Thief has to be able to reset over and over, given that it cant actually win any fair 1v1s.

>

> Anyone else remember [when Thief was described as "deadly in 1-on-1 combat"](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Thief&oldid=454790)?

>

 

I do. It was advertised that way before the game launched and delivered at launch. It was a class that heavily punished players for being caught out alone. And was THE BEST at dueling another player simply because of the reliable access of evasions, and interrupts at it's disposal that allowed them to counter and punish, or catch up and kill someone who was fleeing the scene. The only way to survive a thief was to simply stay and fight it and ping for backup. His strongest weapon was generally surprise because you came out of bone fuck no where, and hit like a truck. And one of his best defining traits was his ability to put a constant pressure on his opponent because of his initiative mechanic. His weapon skills did not hit as hard as other classes. But the trade off was it usually did something that let the thief catch someone off balance, evade, close the distance, or get out of the way.

 

The trade offs the thief had. Was absolutely no forms of blocks. If he ran out of initiative he was fucked (And this was before the days of trickery reliance after frequent changes to init costs) The thief's only real means of handling groups was in one utility, and his bow. If a thief won a group fight, it was because the player's trickled in after him rather than stay near each other. The warrior would die because his fucking leaping attack would put him miles ahead of everyone else. He'd shit for it. Then the elementalist because he hung back while everyone else charged in. Gets his teeth kicked in. Then yanked further away from his group when the thief teleports and scorpion wires him.

 

You were squishier than an elementalist. And did not have access to boons, but you stole them from players. The thief also had the shittiest ability to remove condi, but could usually shake off movement imparements.

 

His role in SPVP was far more fun than it is now. You were still roaming and +1ing. But you would also intercept lone players and kill them. Which also made guardians a bit more important, as guardians stalemated thieves hard. The thief also wasn't expected to just decap. He was expected to cap and fight on the point and use his better judgement. Or counter thief the thief. And occasionally enter the dazzling battle of the ages with another thief.

 

Now? The thief is just shit. Simply because players don't like the idea that a low defense, low utility class who relied heavily on active evasions to stay alive, was allowed to have mobility, damage, and stealth.

 

I kinda hope that the universal nerfs was actually an indirect buff for thief, once again placing him back in his spot as a Deadly 1v1 opponent. But... with the way Anet pays more attention to everyone else but thief. I don't know. Thief's current state of poor treatment, frequently falling behind other classes, constant nerfs, and lack of a defining trait is what really made just stop playing PvP in general.

 

And eventually the game after the story of the episodes. I'm only paying attention now, since it seems like things might be getting better again. The change of thief's useless traps. And the universal damage and sustain nerfs.

[bluri.2653]

all is vain, whatever build we get working eats nerfs. strong +1 but sucky at dueling? nerf... good at dueling but sucky at +1? nerf......

[saerni.2584]

> @"bluri.2653" said:

> all is vain, whatever build we get working eats nerfs. strong +1 but sucky at dueling? nerf... good at dueling but sucky at +1? nerf......

 

Buff thief.

 

[babazhook.6805]

In no way shape or form is stealth op.

 

Just because a thief resets a fight it hardly means stealth OP. The Thief uses INI and when out of INI can not stick in a fight. They cannot rely on the #1 attack as they can not take hits like other classes. A thief resetting is because he was closer to dying then the person he faces. When a person complains a thief able to reset it is because that person is in effect demanding changes so that he is ensured of killing the thief rather then seeing it get away. Said person deems this as "balanced".

 

The design of a thief is based upon its ability to escape a fight more easily then other classes when it outmatched. I would point out the same complaints are made about thief mobility (and shortbow) or evades. In essence those complaining are saying "If I can not kill the thief when I wish it not fun and not balanced".

 

To the "Fun Factor" and I will speak to WvW.

 

5 guys attack one they encounter and that person they encounter and that person has no escape tools so dies. Who is that FUN for? 5 guys encounter a thief and thief uses stealth to escape. Who is that fun for?

 

While I generally play thief most of the time, it not always a stealth version and in fact when I do come against a DE that stealths and am on my non stealth thief , I find the engagement fun as I try and anticipate when and where he will pop from stealth and when he will be vulnerable.

[Virdo.1540]

Permastealth isnt itself op.

 

OP is if the stupid classes can cleanse even crap reveal away. Why do we even have stuff like reveals?

[kash.9213]

> @"Virdo.1540" said:

> Permastealth isnt itself op.

>

> OP is if the stupid classes can cleanse even kitten reveal away. **Why do we even have stuff like reveals?**

 

That's a good question.