Condition Damage indirectly buffed to become the strongest damage type in competitive settings.

[Momekic.8603]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> Y'all need to relax with these complaints.

 

I don't agree. We need to be vocal about it so they know to fix the issue. If we just chill nothing will change. Its already so evident that it needs to be brought up. People warned about this pre-patch.

 

Condis are already obviously way overpowered. Anet touched condis very lightly in this patch, they needed to actually balance the damage of conditions along with the damage of power. Im not sure if they thought the minor changes they did to condis would be balanced with power in anyway, but its not.

 

You can bring all your cleanses, but Condi bunkers can spam condis all day, sit back and laugh as power damage tickles them. They will just keep bombing you with condis until all your cleanses are on cool down and kill you with ease.

 

Condition application is out of hand and has been for a while, this patch bring it more to light.

[Yasai.3549]

> @"God.2708" said:

 

> > And yet 8k burn ticks still exists. They were not even handed with these changes unlike with power damage. What they should have done is not touch the number of stacks or durations and just changed the coefficients from Condition Damage.

 

Ever considered that not everyone runs Cleansing runes on a whim or isn't playing a class that has excellent Condi clear?

 

Before yu start going "Just clear condi 4head" remember that the prime culprit for insta stack Burning for a long time isn't lmaofaceroll Burn Weaver, but lmaorofl Burn DHs.

 

They have spear which applies burn over time and BGH right now has the duration increase jacked up to 66%.

 

They have spirit weapons that they can just drop on yu once Maw procs.

They have Procession of Blades.

They have Sword 3.

They have Focus 5.

 

These dicnuggets are the ones responsible for insta stacking 8k burns right now, because their profession mechanic allows them to do so.

 

Condi coeffcients need to be nerfed for this one reason : there are builds out there that can still apply conditions on such a ridiculously high frequency that the nerf basically never happened.

 

[Ertrak.9506]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> These dicnuggets are the ones responsible for insta stacking 8k burns right now, because their profession mechanic allows them to do so.

>

> Condi coeffcients need to be nerfed for this one reason : there are builds out there that can still apply conditions on such a ridiculously high frequency that the nerf basically never happened.

>

 

So because 1 build is over performing, all builds should be nerfed? Makes sense.

 

We all know everyone on these forums crying about condi, are the ones that dont want condi to exist at all because they can't handle anything more than 1-dimensional gameplay.

[God.2708]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"God.2708" said:

>

> > > And yet 8k burn ticks still exists. They were not even handed with these changes unlike with power damage. What they should have done is not touch the number of stacks or durations and just changed the coefficients from Condition Damage.

>

> Ever considered that not everyone runs Cleansing runes on a whim or isn't playing a class that has excellent Condi clear?

>

> Before yu start going "Just clear condi 4head" remember that the prime culprit for insta stack Burning for a long time isn't lmaofaceroll Burn Weaver, but lmaorofl Burn DHs.

>

> They have spear which applies burn over time and BGH right now has the duration increase jacked up to 66%.

>

> They have spirit weapons that they can just drop on yu once Maw procs.

> They have Procession of Blades.

> They have Sword 3.

> They have Focus 5.

>

> These dicnuggets are the ones responsible for insta stacking 8k burns right now, because their profession mechanic allows them to do so.

>

> Condi coeffcients need to be nerfed for this one reason : there are builds out there that can still apply conditions on such a ridiculously high frequency that the nerf basically never happened.

>

 

So your situation in which this burn guard is a dastardly burn stacker is one in which you have

1. Been hit by his spear of justice

2. Been hit by his dragon's maw

3. Been hit by his procession of blades

4. Did not utilize stability or mobility to get out of any of those then

5. proceeded to face tank his sword 3 and... focus 5? (Did you mean focus 4, I really can't see focus 5 doing anything for burn)

 

I mean christ, if you tanked all those in a nerfed power meta your ass is still grass, why should it be any different that it's little flames killing you instead of the upwards of 45k power damage you just took to the face?

[Yasai.3549]

> @"God.2708" said:

 

> I mean christ, if you tanked all those in a nerfed power meta your kitten is still grass, why should it be any different that it's little flames killing you instead of the upwards of 45k power damage you just took to the face?

 

 

I'm just mentioning what Burn DHs can do and always have been doing.

 

But then again in this current patch where Stab and stunbreaks are both nerfed, I'm honestly not surprised that some people are taken out in this fashion.

 

Can totally see a Necro or Thief getting done in by a Spear > Maw + Procession and then tagged by Focus 5 while they hobble away burning to death.

 

[Yasai.3549]

> @"Ertrak.9506" said:

 

> So because 1 build is over performing, all builds should be nerfed? Makes sense.

>

> We all know everyone on these forums crying about condi, are the ones that dont want condi to exist at all because they can't handle anything more than 1-dimensional gameplay.

 

Technically it's just Bunker Condi builds that are overperforming.

 

They don't seem to feel the effects of reduced sustain because power is nerfed, but the Condi damage they output is almost the same as before.

 

I'm bringing attention to the fact that power is nerfed, Condi builds aren't, and coupled with sustain nerfs, it's essentially a double buff for Condition builds since what used to kill them can no longer do so, and they can now kill builds easily due to lack of sustain.

 

Condi needs to be dealt a heavier nerf, because they are getting away with alot right now.

 

 

 

 

[Ertrak.9506]

> @"Yasai.3549" said:

> > @"Ertrak.9506" said:

>

> > So because 1 build is over performing, all builds should be nerfed? Makes sense.

> >

> > We all know everyone on these forums crying about condi, are the ones that dont want condi to exist at all because they can't handle anything more than 1-dimensional gameplay.

>

> Technically it's just Bunker Condi builds that are overperforming.

>

> They don't seem to feel the effects of reduced sustain because power is nerfed, but the Condi damage they output is almost the same as before.

>

> I'm bringing attention to the fact that power is nerfed, Condi builds aren't, and coupled with sustain nerfs, it's essentially a double buff for Condition builds since what used to kill them can no longer do so, and they can now kill builds easily due to lack of sustain.

>

> Condi needs to be dealt a heavier nerf, because they are getting away with alot right now.

>

 

There literally exists only 1 bunker condi build right now, which is Burn DH, which primarily exists because guardians are Anet's favourite child. Mirage got heavily nerfed by losing half its condi bomb via double dodge, Necro still gets locked down to hell and back, condi rev can literally only sustain basically through torment runes but after the Empty Vessel nerfed has serious problems with getting locked down. Non of these builds "bunker" even with trailblazer gear.

 

Sustain nerfs affect both condi and power, its not just 1 thing. Stability, stun breaks, damage mitigation (not just armour, but evades, blocks, and invulns) and healing. All these things affected both condi builds and power builds. DH is the only outlier as it gets an invuln, blocks, passive healing. Youre point here is completely moot.

 

And all of this is without even mentioning resistance and cleansing, which condi builds have to deal with on top of dealing with all of the other forms of mitigation (evades, blocks, invuln, and healing).

 

Burn DH specifically needs a nerf. No one really disagrees with that. But your argument that every condi build needs to be nerfed just because of that is wrong.

 

Counter builds will start to pop up too, just as they existed pre HoT. You can't run 1 build to take on every build anymore. You need to adjust your playstyle, learn condi attack tells, and what attacks to interupt or dodge, and when you should actually spend your cleanses.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"God.2708" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > >Right now condi deals too much damage, so either pick fewer stacks, shorter durations, or lower coefficients.

> > > Anet *literally* picked all those options for condi **this patch**.

> >

> > And yet 8k burn ticks still exists. They were not even handed with these changes unlike with power damage. What they should have done is not touch the number of stacks or durations and just changed the coefficients from Condition Damage.

>

> Have you considered cleansing them? Or maybe using that boon that makes condi's do absolutely nothing?

>

> Funny story. I took 9 random players out 60 minutes into patch against a group of 30+ that was clearly running almost pure condi builds. I ended up headlong into them and they didn't even drop our hp bars below 90% because we just stood in our courage tome 4s and rotated them repeatedly. Lasted almost 40s in a 9v30 till they all fell over from their supports CDs being gone.

>

> If you think condi is meta in anything larger than a 2v2 you need to learn to play. It at best has gained some token spots in squad to augment power damage.

 

That particular build puts 8k burn ticks on you within 1s with 2 other cover conditions, but yes as a warrior I don't have a problem with it personally, I dodge out, pop SiO, and then volley the guardian until it dies. Burn DH can melt a larger group btw, they actually get stronger the more targets there are.

 

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > >Right now condi deals too much damage, so either pick fewer stacks, shorter durations, or lower coefficients.

> > > Anet *literally* picked all those options for condi **this patch**.

> >

> > And yet 8k burn ticks still exists. They were not even handed with these changes unlike with power damage. What they should have done is not touch the number of stacks or durations and just changed the coefficients from Condition Damage.

> Which just shows its a problem with specific skills, not condi dmg in general.

>

> Or does a condi thief dump down 8k burn ticks? In fact... Does *anyone* do that outside of a very specific class on very specific builds?

 

I got a 6k bleed tick pre-patch on my necro without even going full condi dps, haven't tested it post patch yet though, tons of cover condi too including poison.

 

There are classes that can rapidly apply certain conditions, its not just Guardian and its E-Specs.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

the main over performer for burn guard is scepter 2 which hits 8 times for some reason and zeal master minor trait that halves justice auto proc. so with that and permeating wrath you get aoe burns every 1.5 sec. maybe take away 2 hits from spirit sword too but buff dmg.

[Svarty.8019]

I quite like where things are at the moment - condi scourges don't seem to have been dusted off yet. Having said this, power still hits hard enough to do wiping and so on, so I think it's a toss up at the moment as to which way the meta will go.

[Ubi.4136]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> the main over performer for burn guard is scepter 2 which hits 8 times for some reason and zeal master minor trait that halves justice auto proc. so with that and permeating wrath you get aoe burns every 1.5 sec. maybe take away 2 hits from spirit sword too but buff dmg.

 

That is only a small part of it.

Scepter 2 got a 2 sec cd increase and 10% power reduction, no change to burn

Staff 3, power reduced 20% but no change to burn.

Sword of Justice, ammo skill with 4 casts, removed some invul, no change to burn

Shield of the avenger, ammo skill, no change at all

 

I can drop scepter 2 and 1 sword of justice in half a sec, and down anyone standing there before they can cleanse, because you get a burn tick before the animation happens. Targetting wisely, you kill tons of people with literally no effort. And while organized zergs can deal with most of the damage, it's still overperforming.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > Just reduce the coefficients on Condi damage per stack in competitive modes. I.e. a full damage burn tick is 400 per stack instead of the roughly 800 per stack.

>

> This can't happen as long as any type of condition cleans exists. If they cut the damage by that much, they need to remove most if not all cleanses in the game otherwise condition damage will be nowhere even remotely close to power.

>

> Condition damage can't be tinkered with, it would have to be completely reworked from the ground up. This is part of the reason why nerf to damage should never have gone through because they can't simply do the same to condition without pushing some classes out of WvW all together. Trailerblazer isn't even a problem either; people who used that gear were doing it wrong (or at least in the old meta they were). It was always much more effective to dump as much condition on someone as quickly as possible, because it would often drop the player in the barrage before they could react.

>

> Like someone else had mentioned, the time in between patches (even when they say they do them more frequently) is too long. Likely they will get to a point after doing 2-3 patches then call it quits and the builds will sit for over a year before they even touch them again. But players complained about this without actually thinking about what the consequences were (as per usual here), so they're just going to have to eat it until such time. Possibly even dealing with the fact this could be it.

 

Yeah condi needs a rework to be fixed. Id say split conditions into "damaging condition" and "impairing Condition", make cleanses only cleanse the latter, and shift around condi damage to compensate. Less burst damage, more sustained damage, and bring the application in line (more telegraphed, not just on-X proc traits, etc.).

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> I got a 6k bleed tick pre-patch on my necro without even going full condi dps, haven't tested it post patch yet though, tons of cover condi too including poison.

>

> There are classes that can rapidly apply certain conditions, its not just Guardian and its E-Specs.

Which was what, 20 stacks? 25? 30? More? Even at full trailblazer and buffed to say ~2500 condi dmg, bleeding does less than 200 per tick.

 

No class does that normally in any situation against power builds that can literally kill you in seconds, unless they are either heavily buffed by a zerg or the enemy is running around like a headless chicken.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > I got a 6k bleed tick pre-patch on my necro without even going full condi dps, haven't tested it post patch yet though, tons of cover condi too including poison.

> >

> > There are classes that can rapidly apply certain conditions, its not just Guardian and its E-Specs.

> Which was what, 20 stacks? 25? 30? More? Even at full trailblazer and buffed to say ~2500 condi dmg, bleeding does less than 200 per tick.

>

> No class does that normally in any situation against power builds that can literally kill you in seconds, unless they are either heavily buffed by a zerg or the enemy is running around like a headless chicken.

 

Fear and blind work wonders against most power builds, you should try it sometime. Opening rotation is something like 21 stacks of bleed before weapon swap or entering shroud.

[ens.9854]

Nobody would mind condi meta so much except it comes together with a vomit of long lasting nondamaging conditions that neuter your character and makes cleansing a nightmare. If you come within 1200 of a blob your bar fills up. Give these skills the same treatment as power skills - make them about damage OR soft cc. Then nerf cleanse back to a reasonable level.

[LetoII.3782]

Can't facetank everything in my blob, game ruined.

[Zolazie Grengche.3051]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> ANet stated long before the patch went live that they planned to do more frequent balance passes to bring things in line. This means bigger/more in depth patches on a more regular schedule which means things like this, Condition Damage, was probably left alone to see how it would perform before giving further updates in the future. I'm sure the same will be done for skills/traits/utilities that aren't performing as ANet thought they might. Maybe X skill had too much damage removed and will get some/all of it's damage back in a future update. Or maybe Y trait didn't get enough of an internal cooldown increase and will see that fixed later on.

>

> Y'all need to relax with these complaints. It's always going to be hectic after a balance patch but after one like this with over 1000 changes I'm amazed so many thought nothing would be problematic. If anything, I think this patch was done very well and a lot of things ( not all ) have been adjusted very nicely.

>

> Chill and wait a while until the next patch. I'm sure other things will get the attention they need by then. It won't be the end of the world if certain classes have obnoxious condition builds for a little while.

 

^^THIS^^

I have hope for the first time in a long time being in WvW only for most of 7yrs. with this patch. I'm in the "we'll see" mode.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Weaker condis are fine imo (poison/bleed/chill/immob...etc), its the heavy hitting ones that need to be looked at now (Burn/Torment/Confusion)

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

for example: hills; jump into some condi-group -> 3 sec time to burst on them, then you gotta opt out bc the natural condicleanse of many basic healskills isn't great. several conditicks, incl crits for 2,6k - barely survived in downstate and bc they're noobs managed to heal up again. if their ranger wasn't blind this would have ended bad :P

 

reminds me of when i started, there was a condi-meta too. you can somewhat counter that, but its not huge fun.

 

whats now really annoying and worse than before, pulling / dazzling / cc overall heavily increased. okay it does no dmg, but if you get cc'd in a row and three-four cc-cleanses just don't work bc one cc is immediately going into the next, it gets a bit uncomfy

[alain.1659]

Solution is simple. Revert condis to pre hot. Confusion deals 3x dmg now but only if you use skill, otherwise no dmg. Same with torment and moving. Burn/ poison cannot be stacked but its effect is strengthened. Ta daaa. Condi characters are more fun in competitive now (although they died in pve). And dont forget to reduce the cleanses and power creep.

[Junkpile.7439]

Horrible that you can't play melee at all. You try to kill somebody edge of blob and you are full of condis. Nobody even target you and you still have to burn all cooldowns just to survive. Of course damage is so low that you don't even tickle these condi bunkers.

[ScionKai.4907]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"ScionKai.4907" said:

> > snips

>

> hello

> pls make moar vids

> cheers

 

I had 3 videos I was about to release as my Full Reee-tard Trilogy (I was rather proud of how the Rampageaholic video turned out lol) but this patch kinda messed that up... But worry not! A new moronic video is in the works that sets up releasing the other vids afterwards later this year... I would give a hint but it would be too much of a spoiler.

 

cheers o/

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"ScionKai.4907" said:

> I had 3 videos I was about to release as my Full Reee-kitten Trilogy (I was rather proud of how the Rampageaholic video turned out lol) but this patch kinda messed that up... But worry not! A new moronic video is in the works that sets up releasing the other vids afterwards later this year... I would give a hint but it would be too much of a spoiler.

>

> cheers o/

 

sweet! glad to hear it lol. do I hear a chicken shit vol 2?

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> ANet stated long before the patch went live that they planned to do more frequent balance passes to bring things in line. This means bigger/more in depth patches on a more regular schedule which means things like this, Condition Damage, was probably left alone to see how it would perform before giving further updates in the future. I'm sure the same will be done for skills/traits/utilities that aren't performing as ANet thought they might. Maybe X skill had too much damage removed and will get some/all of it's damage back in a future update. Or maybe Y trait didn't get enough of an internal cooldown increase and will see that fixed later on.

>

> Y'all need to relax with these complaints. It's always going to be hectic after a balance patch but after one like this with over 1000 changes I'm amazed so many thought nothing would be problematic. If anything, I think this patch was done very well and a lot of things ( not all ) have been adjusted very nicely.

>

> Chill and wait a while until the next patch. I'm sure other things will get the attention they need by then. It won't be the end of the world if certain classes have obnoxious condition builds for a little while.

 

SpellOfIniquity.,it's a trend in Guild Wars 2 balancing and you know it :)

 

we are just calling it out for what it is, that's all

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

 

theres only 4 builds using condi amulets atm, and I don't expect that to change too much. so no, for pvp you're wrong.

6 if you count 2 decent ones from test.