When are we going to have the thief class actually fixed? (with fun videos)

[anduriell.6280]

It is very terrible game experience when you fight all the cheesy builds that class have.

This short video is recorded yesterday, well after the famous balance patch. All done while totally invisible. Ah yes i forgot to dodge.. Right.

 

That thief was invisible the all time as i didn't see it although i spend almost a minute walking around that campament. That class has idiotic mobility as well as damage meme worthy (i wanted a video to prove the mobility of the deadeye):

 

But when it's not this there is the instant gank-i fail-teleport away.. Safest class to play in gw2, if your ganking fail just keep resetting the fight with the teleports.

 

When are we going to have a real balance for that class? Is it so the streamers don't complain publicly ? What is it?

[anduriell.6280]

Another video.... Is this their idea of balance?

[bluberblasen.9684]

sorry , i dont see the problem here ( coming from 70 % core ele player / 20 % weaver and 10 % warrior )

he never 1 shot you ( first video 4 shots ), your healing skill is still op ( need duration nerf to 6 seconds down from 8 ) you fought enemy territory.

you had more than 10 chances to run away. ( video 2 )

 

but i agree with you that thief need some fixing - either reduce evades / teleport or reduce stealth / condition damage.

 

[anduriell.6280]

sure my dude. 13k backstabs from nowhere is "fine". You keep telling yourself that. And the stealth uptime has to be nerfed to the ground, all builds has permanent invisibility.

[DemonSeed.3528]

I think it all boils down to experience - you gave the thief free pot shots to hit you from behind, you can actually run while still looking behind. There were a bunch of spots to los but you went straight from the camp video. In the last video at lords, did the thief die because you cut the video too short and he was really low hp, meaning he did a do or die thing just to get you, can't really say much because the video is too short, there are no before or after the engagement moments. In the first video you went out in the open without los. If you know he's around and know what weaponset they are using, use that info to your advantage. I'm just assuming you already knew they were around. Also there is no indication they were perma stealthing, just short videos of them popping out of stealth to hit you in vid 1 and 3, whilst in video 2 it was just free hits from the back as you were running.

In summary it is too easy to make videos like this to point out things in bias unless we get the full view, although I do understand your frustrations.

[Heika.5403]

Any open attack that you can suffer without the possibility of react and counter it, without warn you never is **"UNFAIR"**. Reveal skills are only useful at times or once you ate the first burst and react or if you are already aware that someone is in stealth there. This game need the **"WARD"** to be added. **WARDING** is very important if you have a stealth mechanic in the game and aslo helps for a better tactical strategy. Until that, stealth will not have a "true real counter" for prevent its abuse. The tricks in WvW and upgraded structures or the reveal skills are more band aids and not the right tool for prevent the stealth abuse. That's all.

 

In WvW, try to stay on the warclaw all time possible to stop the first attack followed by a engage when he is far and then reveal would have helped. The third video is a clear example of the stealth abuse. And if Wards are still not a thing in gw2 the only reason i can see is due to allow its abuse because is the thief mechanic that they designed. But also one os the reasons that why people that don't like be attacked without any warn simply avoid play PvP and WvW in this game.

 

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" I'm sure that you know what "Ward " is right? I imagine that a developer like you also play and watch this and others games too. A Ward is a skill or object placed that guard an area making all inside it visible so you have a clear vision off all, including what is in stealth, wards not need to trigger the reveal effect or stop the stealth for your enemy, only give full vision and visible of all inside the warded area. The ward is invisible and indestructible unless you have a special ward counter in the game. You must watch things as they were not in stealth. In some games Wards also give vision and detect people behind the walls, etc. But, maybe here, that will be not necessary forcing you to position yourself properly but also allowing you to place more than one ward strategically to counter the lose of vision due to walls. About a counter fo ward, in fact, they already by definition counters themselves by giving you the vision or the enemies, but some games added a special ward that counter others by making all the enemy wards in the warded area visible and destroyable for a short time. If don't profit it, enemy wards will become invisible again and undestroyable. Wards traditionally cost resources like the tricks of WvW in GW2, but here due to PvP and PvE we should play with its CD (cooldown). With normal wards having XX CD and counter wards, if added, double CD.

 

Adding an universal utility/button with charges/ammo skill feature for all professions that can be used to place wards at range should be enough and the area covered should be enough big to fight comfortably inside it. A circle with a diameter of 1000 units, for example. It'll also be a good tool to use them coordination with your team. It should all be tested properly, maybe a utility skill with 2 charges for normal wars and, if counter wards are desired, add another utility/button slot for counter wards could so you have one button for each type for ward. that should works well. Three wards in total. Those Slots/ Buttons for Wards not need to be as big as normal skills slots. Maybe can be two small buttons enough visible to watch the number of charges in a convenient place of the player UI.

[Super Hayes.6890]

Ward sounds great!

[Yasai.3549]

Yea I think Warding would be nice too.

 

Stealth right now has too much control over the entire gamestate.

It strangles the players who are not using Stealth and forces them to play near Sentry or Towers.

And since Sentry and Towers do not move, the Thief basically owns all parts of the maps except these small pockets.

 

Having portable quick deploying areas of detection will be great and forces a Thief to play on an even playing field.

And I know for a fact Thief is capable of playing without Stealth, it's just that Stealth is such a broken mechanic that they swear by it and abuse it to hell and back.

 

Wards could cost like 10 supply and pulses Reveal over a minute and then destroys itself.

[ArchonWing.9480]

I mean, being one shot is fine, but I think the problem is they can keep trying.

 

Normally I would tell OP that they screwed up and did something wrong but idk here.

[ilMasa.2546]

The problem here is kinda simple: there is no actual counterplay.Im not talking about the DMG i dont care if thieves can 5k or 10k you.

Stealth is the problem.

 

Im sorry but when i see people talking about "**free pot shots to hit you from behind**" or "T**here were a bunch of spots to los**" i **call BS**.

 

In the first clip we couldnt even see the thief getting inside the camp and even if you were able to react **AT A GODLIKE SPEED**,u burned your CD/evade and guess what?! the thief will be still invisible.And if its not he will be right before u could target him.How much initiative x seconds?!My defensive cd are around 15 to 30 secs each.

 

When stealth can outlast everything u have on your bar it is BS

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

Buff teff.

 

Please review all the dumb reveal wvw anti teef mechanics just delete it or implement disadvantages for all other classes ...

 

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"ilMasa.2546" said:

> The problem here is kinda simple: there is no actual counterplay.Im not talking about the DMG i dont care if thieves can 5k or 10k you.

> Stealth is the problem.

>

> Im sorry but when i see people talking about "**free pot shots to hit you from behind**" or "T**here were a bunch of spots to los**" i **call BS**.

>

> In the first clip we couldnt even see the thief getting inside the camp and even if you were able to react **AT A GODLIKE SPEED**,u burned your CD/evade and guess what?! the thief will be still invisible.And if its not he will be right before u could target him.How much initiative x seconds?!My defensive cd are around 15 to 30 secs each.

 

Please post the full videos then, otherwise there is little to no context except skewing the viewpoint from what is shown - we need to see how the fights were from the beginning of the encounter. Since you say you were there, you are also outnumbering the thief, how many people were at camp? Again, would need to see video of full engagement to see how you guys were handling the thief to really get an idea, otherwise I can also just say this is also a situation that experience in fighting thieves is what was needed.

[Burnfall.9573]

**+1**

NCsoft's Earnings Report, 'I was about ready to start playing again until I saw this'

 

 

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> **+1**

> NCsoft's Earnings Report, 'I was about ready to start playing again until I saw this'

 

Ah so you don't even play the game. That explains a lot. :D

[Rasfar.6921]

You can out run a centaur!

[Shroud.2307]

Hm. I wonder if all these threads about Thief that have been popping up are Soulbeasts like OP. Maybe time to wake up and smell the non-perma Protection, passive damage immunity and 33% damage reduction coffee?

[DeceiverX.8361]

I mean sustained stealth is the problem and has been the problem since launch, and all I see is people whining about damage. As it is, all that thief has left is DE because this round of nerfs kinda gutted core thief so badly there's little reason to play anything else except stealth-camping DE. Plus DE gets stupid amounts of damage from MBS and Malice anyways which again, were the core of the issue for DE and not baseline weapon damage numbers lol.

 

But honestly, you can't entirely fault thief here. Your gameplay is actually straight terrible and you'd have lost to pretty much anyone that wasn't terrible. Maybe it's that you got way too comfortable on Soulbeast which was downright busted before?...

 

Your reaction to being immobilized is to stand there and take it in video 1 despite having accessible cleanses and heals, if not also a block on GS swap like you're running in the other videos, which negates the initiative he just spent and keeps you alive, as heal->swap->4

 

In video 2, you have ample time to cast Sic 'Em when the DE was attacking, and you just don't because you're waiting to wombo-combo off the damage or something?

 

In video 3, you knew he was there because you were laying the trap, and proceeded to lay the trap while knowing your character becomes incapacitated for several seconds, basically giving the guy a free kill. Doesn't matter what class it was; if you lay a trap with them nearby, they just kill you. Again, doing so while Sic 'Em is equipped and when you can just use a regular trap or your elite to gain visibility. You should swap into GS while being OOC for the block and to force rifle, or feel him out while pivoting because you're going to be on the defensive early against a DE regardless.

 

It's a terribly-designed spec but you can't seriously claim it's OP with the videos you posted, because your build and play are both awful, there's no semblance of tactics used, and you're hard-countered and camping longbow while OOC.

 

So yeah. Very few sympathies from me, even despite the validity of the complaint that DE is terribly-designed.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> Hm. I wonder if all these threads about Thief that have been popping up are Soulbeasts like OP. Maybe time to wake up and smell the non-perma Protection, passive damage immunity and 33% damage reduction coffee?

 

Largely because pressing 2 isn't a guaranteed kill anymore for them with the damage cuts, as now thieves can survive when they dodge it unlike before, where they'd have to double dodge to not die to RF lol.

[Ragi.7291]

Seven years this problem has existed, seven years the community has been screaming in a void.

1. Sign of the assassin + stealth attack + rune, crit sigil , + food in WvW. = one shot or 2 shot

 

2. And access to the stealth and smoke combo areas.

 

The worst thing is that they've taken out their balancing since last year, and many of us have said that they've done it again and again in their different iteration and at the end it increases the recharging time when it's absolutely not the major problem.

 

It should just be that when we go stealth we only have access to our stealth attack, and move so we can't launch anything else.

No more access to combo's to extend the stealth, no more buff to increase the damage of the attack, it's already doing enough damage.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> I mean sustained stealth is the problem and has been the problem since launch, and all I see is people whining about damage. As it is, all that thief has left is DE because this round of nerfs kinda gutted core thief so badly there's little reason to play anything else except stealth-camping DE. Plus DE gets stupid amounts of damage from MBS and Malice anyways which again, were the core of the issue for DE and not baseline weapon damage numbers lol.

>

> But honestly, you can't entirely fault thief here. Your gameplay is actually straight terrible and you'd have lost to pretty much anyone that wasn't terrible. Maybe it's that you got way too comfortable on Soulbeast which was downright busted before?...

>

> Your reaction to being immobilized is to stand there and take it in video 1 despite having accessible cleanses and heals, if not also a block on GS swap like you're running in the other videos, which negates the initiative he just spent and keeps you alive, as heal->swap->4

>

> In video 2, you have ample time to cast Sic 'Em when the DE was attacking, and you just don't because you're waiting to wombo-combo off the damage or something?

>

> In video 3, you knew he was there because you were laying the trap, and proceeded to lay the trap while knowing your character becomes incapacitated for several seconds, basically giving the guy a free kill. Doesn't matter what class it was; if you lay a trap with them nearby, they just kill you. Again, doing so while Sic 'Em is equipped and when you can just use a regular trap or your elite to gain visibility. You should swap into GS while being OOC for the block and to force rifle, or feel him out while pivoting because you're going to be on the defensive early against a DE regardless.

>

> It's a terribly-designed spec but you can't seriously claim it's OP with the videos you posted, because your build and play are both awful, there's no semblance of tactics used, and you're hard-countered and camping longbow while OOC.

>

> So yeah. Very few sympathies from me, even despite the validity of the complaint that DE is terribly-designed.

 

Deceiver, when Thief Players dies to Perma-Stealth Thief, do you share the same blame to that Thief Profession player?

-I'm sure you know, not every Thief Profession plays Perma-Stealth and many are well experienced with it-

 

Also, i salute you for agreeing that Thief Profession design is indeed Toxic

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> It is very terrible game experience when you fight all the cheesy builds that class have.

> This short video is recorded yesterday, well after the famous balance patch. All done while totally invisible. Ah yes i forgot to dodge.. Right.

 

Yeah everything **outside your peripheral vision** are not visible to you.

 

>

> That thief was invisible the all time as i didn't see it although i spend almost a minute walking around that campament. That class has idiotic mobility as well as damage meme worthy (i wanted a video to prove the mobility of the deadeye):

 

You're getting juked hard bro. Again, they are outside your peripheral vision.

 

This is not a Thief problem.

 

 

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > It is very terrible game experience when you fight all the cheesy builds that class have.

> > This short video is recorded yesterday, well after the famous balance patch. All done while totally invisible. Ah yes i forgot to dodge.. Right.

>

> Yeah everything **outside your peripheral vision** are not visible to you.

>

> >

> > That thief was invisible the all time as i didn't see it although i spend almost a minute walking around that campament. That class has idiotic mobility as well as damage meme worthy (i wanted a video to prove the mobility of the deadeye):

>

> You're getting juked hard bro. Again, they are outside your peripheral vision.

>

> This is not a Thief problem.

>

>

 

you are correct, it is not a Thief problems but a Bad Design Problem

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > I mean sustained stealth is the problem and has been the problem since launch, and all I see is people whining about damage. As it is, all that thief has left is DE because this round of nerfs kinda gutted core thief so badly there's little reason to play anything else except stealth-camping DE. Plus DE gets stupid amounts of damage from MBS and Malice anyways which again, were the core of the issue for DE and not baseline weapon damage numbers lol.

> >

> > But honestly, you can't entirely fault thief here. Your gameplay is actually straight terrible and you'd have lost to pretty much anyone that wasn't terrible. Maybe it's that you got way too comfortable on Soulbeast which was downright busted before?...

> >

> > Your reaction to being immobilized is to stand there and take it in video 1 despite having accessible cleanses and heals, if not also a block on GS swap like you're running in the other videos, which negates the initiative he just spent and keeps you alive, as heal->swap->4

> >

> > In video 2, you have ample time to cast Sic 'Em when the DE was attacking, and you just don't because you're waiting to wombo-combo off the damage or something?

> >

> > In video 3, you knew he was there because you were laying the trap, and proceeded to lay the trap while knowing your character becomes incapacitated for several seconds, basically giving the guy a free kill. Doesn't matter what class it was; if you lay a trap with them nearby, they just kill you. Again, doing so while Sic 'Em is equipped and when you can just use a regular trap or your elite to gain visibility. You should swap into GS while being OOC for the block and to force rifle, or feel him out while pivoting because you're going to be on the defensive early against a DE regardless.

> >

> > It's a terribly-designed spec but you can't seriously claim it's OP with the videos you posted, because your build and play are both awful, there's no semblance of tactics used, and you're hard-countered and camping longbow while OOC.

> >

> > So yeah. Very few sympathies from me, even despite the validity of the complaint that DE is terribly-designed.

>

> Deceiver, when Thief Players dies to Perma-Stealth Thief, do you share the same blame to that Thief Profession player?

> -I'm sure you know, not every Thief Profession plays Perma-Stealth-

>

> Also, i salute you for agreeing that Thief Profession design is indeed Toxic

 

I can't fault them for doing it. It's an incredibly easy and very rewarding way to play and clearly ANet wants it to exist because they'd have removed stacking stealth a long time ago if they didn't. You can't say the class needs nerfs though when the problem is specifically with an issue that more classes than just the thief have exploited in the past, which includes ranger and mesmer.

 

It'd be like complaining ranger was OP because longbow soulbeast dealt too much damage. The issue is soulbeast and how safe and easy it was to play it.

 

And no, it's not the thief profession as a whole. It's literally just DE that's particularly bad. DrD is lame but at least it interacts somewhat. DE encourages doing the opposite. It's less about it being OP and more that it's just not fun to play against.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > It is very terrible game experience when you fight all the cheesy builds that class have.

> > > This short video is recorded yesterday, well after the famous balance patch. All done while totally invisible. Ah yes i forgot to dodge.. Right.

> >

> > Yeah everything **outside your peripheral vision** are not visible to you.

> >

> > >

> > > That thief was invisible the all time as i didn't see it although i spend almost a minute walking around that campament. That class has idiotic mobility as well as damage meme worthy (i wanted a video to prove the mobility of the deadeye):

> >

> > You're getting juked hard bro. Again, they are outside your peripheral vision.

> >

> > This is not a Thief problem.

> >

> >

>

> you are correct, it is not a Thief problems but a Bad Design Problem

 

I agree, due to bad design, Thief have suffered and have to resort in sneaky and cheesy tactics. In my opinion, when the Thief steals, they would steal a random skill (just like Arcane Larceny in GW1) from their target for a long duration instead of one of the crappy Stolen Items. Steal should steal skills, traits, buff, armor, weapon, etc. Who needs stealth then?

[kash.9213]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > I mean sustained stealth is the problem and has been the problem since launch, and all I see is people whining about damage. As it is, all that thief has left is DE because this round of nerfs kinda gutted core thief so badly there's little reason to play anything else except stealth-camping DE. Plus DE gets stupid amounts of damage from MBS and Malice anyways which again, were the core of the issue for DE and not baseline weapon damage numbers lol.

> >

> > But honestly, you can't entirely fault thief here. Your gameplay is actually straight terrible and you'd have lost to pretty much anyone that wasn't terrible. Maybe it's that you got way too comfortable on Soulbeast which was downright busted before?...

> >

> > Your reaction to being immobilized is to stand there and take it in video 1 despite having accessible cleanses and heals, if not also a block on GS swap like you're running in the other videos, which negates the initiative he just spent and keeps you alive, as heal->swap->4

> >

> > In video 2, you have ample time to cast Sic 'Em when the DE was attacking, and you just don't because you're waiting to wombo-combo off the damage or something?

> >

> > In video 3, you knew he was there because you were laying the trap, and proceeded to lay the trap while knowing your character becomes incapacitated for several seconds, basically giving the guy a free kill. Doesn't matter what class it was; if you lay a trap with them nearby, they just kill you. Again, doing so while Sic 'Em is equipped and when you can just use a regular trap or your elite to gain visibility. You should swap into GS while being OOC for the block and to force rifle, or feel him out while pivoting because you're going to be on the defensive early against a DE regardless.

> >

> > It's a terribly-designed spec but you can't seriously claim it's OP with the videos you posted, because your build and play are both awful, there's no semblance of tactics used, and you're hard-countered and camping longbow while OOC.

> >

> > So yeah. Very few sympathies from me, even despite the validity of the complaint that DE is terribly-designed.

>

> Deceiver, when Thief Players dies to Perma-Stealth Thief, do you share the same blame to that Thief Profession player?

> -I'm sure you know, not every Thief Profession plays Perma-Stealth and many are well experienced with it-

>

> Also, i salute you for agreeing that Thief Profession design is indeed Toxic

 

Most thieves don't play perma-stealth and even fewer are dying to them. You either go kill their friends while they watch from stealth, or you know the moment you walk out of safe spawn there are eyes on you. So, you know how to pan camera while moving and you know where to look so you can spot re-stealth smoke even if you don't spot the player. There is a blur while coming out of stealth, or at least the corner of the eye will catch it if you don't and that's a good moment to stun, pull, or use other fast interrupt. Yolomouse or something might help but get reflexive with your targeting.

 

If you're not built full glass, you should survive one Death's Judgment if it even lands which it shouldn't. MBS can be more difficult to avoid because they'll normally have planned their approach but even that shouldn't kill you, but you need to mitigate anything that was modded or traited to activate with that opener fast or bug out. Perma-stealth is a problem if your server has really bad coverage during your play time and some nerd is hiding in your stuff or picking off daily farmers.