Thalimae.3406 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Seems like there are two different things discussed here: **1) Why are the male and female outfits not literally the same?** Answer: Because they don't behave like real clothes and the characters aren't actually putting them on. Male and female armour/outfits are made specifically for their respective models due to technical limitations that many others have already explained in more detail. **2) Why don't the male and female outfits look the same?** Answer: Because of design decisions that you may or may not like. Personally, I'm also not a fan of sets where the male armour is a bulky fully clothed version while the female one is a battle bikini with leftover scraps dangling from random parts for no reason. The issue that it all comes down to are long standing ideas of what is "feminine" and "masculine" and how certain looks need to be sexy (mostly for the female models, let's be real). It's annoying and it's been a long standing issue that goes back to GW1 so I don't expect any changes to this nonsense any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenDEADLY.5281 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 > @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > > @"sevenDEADLY.5281" said: > > Some quick research shows that roughly 4.5% of the US population and 6% in the EU identify as LGBTQ oriented. > > That is not game data. Additionally, LGBTQ is a separate issue from fashion, so I'm not sure why you're making them out to be mutually exclusive. Typical gender stereotypes such as man = masculine and female = feminine are the way they are because they are the broadly traditional view of the sexes. While not mutually exclusive, in traditional views most men prefer to dress as men and most women prefer to dress as women. Even among members of the LGBTQ community this is the case for a fair amount. Your argument seems to be that you think for some reason a much much larger percentage of LGBTQ members consist of game players than the average population. If this is the case than I would point out that it is now you that needs to show your work and prove this. Again, members of any given smaller community always overestimate their group size because they surround themselves with said group constantly, giving them a false impression of the world ie: all my friends are x so people everywhere must be x. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greyhawk.9107 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 > @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > > Other Posters said: > > > it'd be unpopular with the majority of the player base to not have any variety between the genders' outfits, especially the female players > > > most people like some variety between the looks of the genders > > > only a very small percentage of people > > > Most people want their men to look manly > > > and their female chars to look feminine. > > > niche minority. > >...everything else is just noise intended to divide and hurt people. You show **your** work, unless you can somehow see into peoples very hearts and minds you **cannot** claim to know the intentions and motivations of the people in this thread that just happen to disagree with you. Those of us pointing out how unlikely that Arenanet would put effort into effectively allowing cross-dressing by making multiple versions of the same outfits is simply us being pragmatic, being realistic. If Anet, for whatever reason, decided to throw in a cross-dress outfit set or two into the Gemstore, most here or ingame probably wouldn't complain. Also, you quoted me above about my observations about the female playerbase's preference: I will admit that it is anecdotal but over the years in both gw1 and gw2 a plurality of the most active members of the guilds I've been in have been female, and damn near every one of them have explicitly told me that they prefer female characters and that they like having them feminine and/or sexy looking. > @"Thalimae.3406" said: > **2) Why don't the male and female outfits look the same?** > Answer: Because of design decisions that you may or may not like. Personally, I'm also not a fan of sets where the male armour is a bulky fully clothed version while the female one is a battle bikini with leftover scraps dangling from random parts for no reason. The issue that it all comes down to are long standing ideas of what is "feminine" and "masculine" and how certain looks need to be sexy (mostly for the female models, let's be real). It's annoying and it's been a long standing issue that goes back to GW1 so I don't expect any changes to this nonsense any time soon. To be frank, this "men get real armor and women get chain-mail bikinis" isn't really a thing in either GW1 or GW2. _Typically_ if one gender is showing skin the other will too, with some exceptions of course. See the tattoo monk armor and scar necro armor from gw1. Also, see above: some amount of female players, whatever that number might be, **do** like the skin showing armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante.1763 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > > > Other Posters said: > > > > > it'd be unpopular with the majority of the player base to not have any variety between the genders' outfits, especially the female players > > > > > most people like some variety between the looks of the genders > > > > > only a very small percentage of people > > > > > Most people want their men to look manly > > > > > and their female chars to look feminine. > > > > > niche minority. > > > >...everything else is just noise intended to divide and hurt people. > You show **your** work, unless you can somehow see into peoples very hearts and minds you **cannot** claim to know the intentions and motivations of the people in this thread that just happen to disagree with you. Those of us pointing out how unlikely that Arenanet would put effort into effectively allowing cross-dressing by making multiple versions of the same outfits is simply us being pragmatic, being realistic. If Anet, for whatever reason, decided to throw in a cross-dress outfit set or two into the Gemstore, most here or ingame probably wouldn't complain. > > Also, you quoted me above about my observations about the female playerbase's preference: I will admit that it is anecdotal but over the years in both gw1 and gw2 a plurality of the most active members of the guilds I've been in have been female, and kitten near every one of them have explicitly told me that they prefer female characters and that they like having them feminine and/or sexy looking. > I at least will only wear "male" outfits on my female characters when im RPing them. The noble outfit on my Charr for instance is better than any of the dresses available for Charr IMO. Other than that its female clothes all the way. However as a female i do enjoy making my characters look feminine as possible, its far easier for me to do, and far more enjoyable to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulGuardian.6203 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Because... diversity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalimae.3406 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > @"Thalimae.3406" said: > > > **2) Why don't the male and female outfits look the same?** > > Answer: Because of design decisions that you may or may not like. Personally, I'm also not a fan of sets where the male armour is a bulky fully clothed version while the female one is a battle bikini with leftover scraps dangling from random parts for no reason. The issue that it all comes down to are long standing ideas of what is "feminine" and "masculine" and how certain looks need to be sexy (mostly for the female models, let's be real). It's annoying and it's been a long standing issue that goes back to GW1 so I don't expect any changes to this nonsense any time soon. > > To be frank, this "men get real armor and women get chain-mail bikinis" isn't really a thing in either GW1 or GW2. _Typically_ if one gender is showing skin the other will too, with some exceptions of course. See the tattoo monk armor and scar necro armor from gw1. Also, see above: some amount of female players, whatever that number might be, **do** like the skin showing armor. There are still terrible examples like the Elite Ranger Druid set where the men get a cool leather trench coat and everything and the women get -literally!- some random leather scraps and a bunch of sticks. You hand over tons of material and money to the armourer and don't even get a pair of shoes, for goodness' sake! And the whole line of Elementalist fashion is one variation of bikini/mini skirt/bra after another while the guys are always fully clothed. But yes, it's less of a problem than in other games, that's true. However female armour designs are still more likely to have random holes in it, or a bare midriff, or missing leggings or whatever. And more often than not this happens for no good reason. There is one armour set in the game that I am aware of were it's the reverse, i.e. the female is full armour and the male is missing a shirt and that is the Dolyak cultural armour for Norn. And it's not just about how much skin is being shown. Sometimes you also have design elements that don't match the other gender so it might as well just be two completely different sets at this point. Bottom line is that I would prefer the male and female designs to match as closely as possible. Of course, be free to accommodate the different physical builds and everything but I don't see the need to make armours any more different beyond that. And that's not about not wanting sexy female armour. But if you make a set with sexy female armour then let the male armour also be sexy and showing off some skin or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greyhawk.9107 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Thalimae.3406" said: > > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > > @"Thalimae.3406" said: > > > > > **2) Why don't the male and female outfits look the same?** > > > Answer: Because of design decisions that you may or may not like. Personally, I'm also not a fan of sets where the male armour is a bulky fully clothed version while the female one is a battle bikini with leftover scraps dangling from random parts for no reason. The issue that it all comes down to are long standing ideas of what is "feminine" and "masculine" and how certain looks need to be sexy (mostly for the female models, let's be real). It's annoying and it's been a long standing issue that goes back to GW1 so I don't expect any changes to this nonsense any time soon. > > > > To be frank, this "men get real armor and women get chain-mail bikinis" isn't really a thing in either GW1 or GW2. _Typically_ if one gender is showing skin the other will too, with some exceptions of course. See the tattoo monk armor and scar necro armor from gw1. Also, see above: some amount of female players, whatever that number might be, **do** like the skin showing armor. > > There are still terrible examples like the Elite Ranger Druid set where the men get a cool leather trench coat and everything and the women get -literally!- some random leather scraps and a bunch of sticks. You hand over tons of material and money to the armourer and don't even get a pair of shoes, for goodness' sake! And the whole line of Elementalist fashion is one variation of bikini/mini skirt/bra after another while the guys are always fully clothed. > > But yes, it's less of a problem than in other games, that's true. However female armour designs are still more likely to have random holes in it, or a bare midriff, or missing leggings or whatever. And more often than not this happens for no good reason. There is one armour set in the game that I am aware of were it's the reverse, i.e. the female is full armour and the male is missing a shirt and that is the Dolyak cultural armour for Norn. > > And it's not just about how much skin is being shown. Sometimes you also have design elements that don't match the other gender so it might as well just be two completely different sets at this point. > > Bottom line is that I would prefer the male and female designs to match as closely as possible. Of course, be free to accommodate the different physical builds and everything but I don't see the need to make armours any more different beyond that. And that's not about not wanting sexy female armour. But if you make a set with sexy female armour then let the male armour also be sexy and showing off some skin or whatever. I don't know what to tell you, as I've already said a plurality of player both male and female do like having some sexy/skin showing armors for females and seemingly aren't terribly interested in the same for male characters in comparison. Anet _has_ come pretty damn close to having one to one with the armors and outfits, especially so with GW2. With gw1 druid's armor was just about the only salacious armor for female rangers in gw1, out of some two dozen armor sets. Elementalist armor did have a sizeable number yes, but when you look at the list only about half falls under "bikini armor". But look at the ritualists, paragons, and assassins; it is quite literally one to one with those armor sets. But what Anet is doing right now is in general is probably for the best, making a roughly even mix of uniform, gendered and salacious armors. This is something that is going to please the largest number of people. ......Now if only they'd do better at making actually good looking skins for armor, really wish they'd use more classics from gw1 regardless of what of the above categories they'd fall under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Outfits are gender locked because of resource limitations around creation of them, I imagine. Though I think it would be neat if they released some armors/outfits that are exactly the same across genders. Like a revealing maid outfit that I can also wear on my big norn warrior or some armor that's functional and intimidating on a female character. They're not able to do it with every outfit but they could do it with **some** of them. I think it would be neat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"coso.9173" said: > > @"Liewec.2896" said: > > > @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > > > Show your work. > > > Feel however you want about gender and clothes, but don't try to speak for others and isolate people by telling them they're part of a tiny group just because you disagree with them. > > They ARE a tiny group... > > These 'trans' people make up less than half a percent of the population. > > (0.3% in America) > > > > And you want double the work to be done so that they can dress their male characters like women and female characters like dudes, it's never going to happen. > > It would take at least half of the population to want to crossdress their characters before a business would even consider the mass of work that you want. > > And you have less than half a percent, if we include the entire LGBT community (many of which simply identify as gay and aren't interested in your idea, but let's include then anyway!) you're still well below 10%. > > > > Sorry to be blunt but that is just facts, and facts don't care about your feelings. > > In eso not half the population wants to cross dress and still all costumes are unisex. So that's not true. Just adding some perspective. ESO has a completely different creation system than GW2 though. All about sliders there, can make your character unnaturally skinny, mishapen or overweight if you wanted to, much like ARK and the armour will mold to your shape. Gw2 doesn't work that way and only gives you specific body types to choose from and every outfit/armour set in the game is tailored to match these body types. This is likely why we've never gotten new body types and very likely never will (because they would have to adapt every armor set in the game to fit these new types or it'll be a clipping disaster) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbru.6014 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Why do female Humans, Norn, and Sylvari run around in the game with more skin showing than would be legal in many real countries? Same answer as the outfits: the majority of the game makers, and also the majority of the people playing those scantily clad eye candy characters, are straight males. My female Asura in her full-covering layered robe just shakes her head seeing those poor shivering "ladies" in Bjora... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman.6349 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Why not just ask for more masculine looking female models and more feminine looking male models. That's what you're trying to achieve and doesn't involve changing every piece of armor/outfit in the game. There's already the transitioned Sylvari that stands by the Fractals of the Mists portal and talks about transitioning. Been there for 5 years or so. Or for that matter, buy a makover kit from the gemstore and just role play a bit. Unless you specifically want one of the games genders wearing the other's clothing in particular then that'll be a lot of work but Anet is pretty WOKE so just keep pushing for it and there's no reason why they shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman.6349 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 > @"Jimbru.6014" said: > Why do female Humans, Norn, and Sylvari run around in the game with more skin showing than would be legal in many real countries? Same answer as the outfits: the majority of the game makers, and also the majority of the people playing those scantily clad eye candy characters, are straight males. My female Asura in her full-covering layered robe just shakes her head seeing those poor shivering "ladies" in Bjora... Just some devil's advocate here for a thought experiment: what if you're just hypersexualizing things in the same way you claim others are and there's nothing nefarious about their characters, but is just something they naturally find more aesthetically pleasing? I don't mean to put a halt to you shaking your head at strangers and assuming their perverted intentions though, but it is kinda crazy to think about it from such an opposite perspective for some I bet. Could even be a female playing that character or the one female toon on an account otherwise evenly split or even mostly male and the happen to feel the need to play the female character sometimes to not run the risk of being labeled sexist. Lol that would be wild... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PseudoNewb.5468 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"coso.9173" said: > > > @"Liewec.2896" said: > > > > @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > > > > Show your work. > > > > Feel however you want about gender and clothes, but don't try to speak for others and isolate people by telling them they're part of a tiny group just because you disagree with them. > > > They ARE a tiny group... > > > These 'trans' people make up less than half a percent of the population. > > > (0.3% in America) > > > > > > And you want double the work to be done so that they can dress their male characters like women and female characters like dudes, it's never going to happen. > > > It would take at least half of the population to want to crossdress their characters before a business would even consider the mass of work that you want. > > > And you have less than half a percent, if we include the entire LGBT community (many of which simply identify as gay and aren't interested in your idea, but let's include then anyway!) you're still well below 10%. > > > > > > Sorry to be blunt but that is just facts, and facts don't care about your feelings. > > > > In eso not half the population wants to cross dress and still all costumes are unisex. So that's not true. Just adding some perspective. > > ESO has a completely different creation system than GW2 though. > All about sliders there, can make your character unnaturally skinny, mishapen or overweight if you wanted to, much like ARK and the armour will mold to your shape. > > Gw2 doesn't work that way and only gives you specific body types to choose from and every outfit/armour set in the game is tailored to match these body types. > This is likely why we've never gotten new body types and very likely never will (because they would have to adapt every armor set in the game to fit these new types or it'll be a clipping disaster) > Shame that the tech is probably why so much work needs to be done to support this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalimae.3406 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > @"Thalimae.3406" said: > > > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > > > @"Thalimae.3406" said: > > > > > > > **2) Why don't the male and female outfits look the same?** > > > > Answer: Because of design decisions that you may or may not like. Personally, I'm also not a fan of sets where the male armour is a bulky fully clothed version while the female one is a battle bikini with leftover scraps dangling from random parts for no reason. The issue that it all comes down to are long standing ideas of what is "feminine" and "masculine" and how certain looks need to be sexy (mostly for the female models, let's be real). It's annoying and it's been a long standing issue that goes back to GW1 so I don't expect any changes to this nonsense any time soon. > > > > > > To be frank, this "men get real armor and women get chain-mail bikinis" isn't really a thing in either GW1 or GW2. _Typically_ if one gender is showing skin the other will too, with some exceptions of course. See the tattoo monk armor and scar necro armor from gw1. Also, see above: some amount of female players, whatever that number might be, **do** like the skin showing armor. > > > > There are still terrible examples like the Elite Ranger Druid set where the men get a cool leather trench coat and everything and the women get -literally!- some random leather scraps and a bunch of sticks. You hand over tons of material and money to the armourer and don't even get a pair of shoes, for goodness' sake! And the whole line of Elementalist fashion is one variation of bikini/mini skirt/bra after another while the guys are always fully clothed. > > > > But yes, it's less of a problem than in other games, that's true. However female armour designs are still more likely to have random holes in it, or a bare midriff, or missing leggings or whatever. And more often than not this happens for no good reason. There is one armour set in the game that I am aware of were it's the reverse, i.e. the female is full armour and the male is missing a shirt and that is the Dolyak cultural armour for Norn. > > > > And it's not just about how much skin is being shown. Sometimes you also have design elements that don't match the other gender so it might as well just be two completely different sets at this point. > > > > Bottom line is that I would prefer the male and female designs to match as closely as possible. Of course, be free to accommodate the different physical builds and everything but I don't see the need to make armours any more different beyond that. And that's not about not wanting sexy female armour. But if you make a set with sexy female armour then let the male armour also be sexy and showing off some skin or whatever. > > I don't know what to tell you, as I've already said a plurality of player both male and female do like having some sexy/skin showing armors for females and seemingly aren't terribly interested in the same for male characters in comparison. Anet _has_ come pretty kitten close to having one to one with the armors and outfits, especially so with GW2. With gw1 druid's armor was just about the only salacious armor for female rangers in gw1, out of some two dozen armor sets. Elementalist armor did have a sizeable number yes, but when you look at the list only about half falls under "bikini armor". But look at the ritualists, paragons, and assassins; it is quite literally one to one with those armor sets. > But what Anet is doing right now is in general is probably for the best, making a roughly even mix of uniform, gendered and salacious armors. This is something that is going to please the largest number of people. > ......Now if only they'd do better at making actually good looking skins for armor, really wish they'd use more classics from gw1 regardless of what of the above categories they'd fall under. I was just clarifying my position, it's all good. :) On a personal note, the Elite Druid is bugging me so much cause I was maining Ranger back then and saw my buddy with his male ranger in this really great coat and I wanted that, too. And, well, you can imagine my disappointment when I saw the female version. It wasn't until Nightfall when female Rangers would finally get ONE coat for themselves and it wasn't until EotN when we'd get a bit variety. The fluffy thick Norn armour is still one of my fave to this date and I'd love to get that in GW2!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greyhawk.9107 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 > @"Thalimae.3406" said: > > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > > @"Thalimae.3406" said: > > > > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > > > > @"Thalimae.3406" said: > > > > > > > > > **2) Why don't the male and female outfits look the same?** > > > > > Answer: Because of design decisions that you may or may not like. Personally, I'm also not a fan of sets where the male armour is a bulky fully clothed version while the female one is a battle bikini with leftover scraps dangling from random parts for no reason. The issue that it all comes down to are long standing ideas of what is "feminine" and "masculine" and how certain looks need to be sexy (mostly for the female models, let's be real). It's annoying and it's been a long standing issue that goes back to GW1 so I don't expect any changes to this nonsense any time soon. > > > > > > > > To be frank, this "men get real armor and women get chain-mail bikinis" isn't really a thing in either GW1 or GW2. _Typically_ if one gender is showing skin the other will too, with some exceptions of course. See the tattoo monk armor and scar necro armor from gw1. Also, see above: some amount of female players, whatever that number might be, **do** like the skin showing armor. > > > > > > There are still terrible examples like the Elite Ranger Druid set where the men get a cool leather trench coat and everything and the women get -literally!- some random leather scraps and a bunch of sticks. You hand over tons of material and money to the armourer and don't even get a pair of shoes, for goodness' sake! And the whole line of Elementalist fashion is one variation of bikini/mini skirt/bra after another while the guys are always fully clothed. > > > > > > But yes, it's less of a problem than in other games, that's true. However female armour designs are still more likely to have random holes in it, or a bare midriff, or missing leggings or whatever. And more often than not this happens for no good reason. There is one armour set in the game that I am aware of were it's the reverse, i.e. the female is full armour and the male is missing a shirt and that is the Dolyak cultural armour for Norn. > > > > > > And it's not just about how much skin is being shown. Sometimes you also have design elements that don't match the other gender so it might as well just be two completely different sets at this point. > > > > > > Bottom line is that I would prefer the male and female designs to match as closely as possible. Of course, be free to accommodate the different physical builds and everything but I don't see the need to make armours any more different beyond that. And that's not about not wanting sexy female armour. But if you make a set with sexy female armour then let the male armour also be sexy and showing off some skin or whatever. > > > > I don't know what to tell you, as I've already said a plurality of player both male and female do like having some sexy/skin showing armors for females and seemingly aren't terribly interested in the same for male characters in comparison. Anet _has_ come pretty kitten close to having one to one with the armors and outfits, especially so with GW2. With gw1 druid's armor was just about the only salacious armor for female rangers in gw1, out of some two dozen armor sets. Elementalist armor did have a sizeable number yes, but when you look at the list only about half falls under "bikini armor". But look at the ritualists, paragons, and assassins; it is quite literally one to one with those armor sets. > > But what Anet is doing right now is in general is probably for the best, making a roughly even mix of uniform, gendered and salacious armors. This is something that is going to please the largest number of people. > > ......Now if only they'd do better at making actually good looking skins for armor, really wish they'd use more classics from gw1 regardless of what of the above categories they'd fall under. > > I was just clarifying my position, it's all good. :) > > On a personal note, the Elite Druid is bugging me so much cause I was maining Ranger back then and saw my buddy with his male ranger in this really great coat and I wanted that, too. And, well, you can imagine my disappointment when I saw the female version. It wasn't until Nightfall when female Rangers would finally get ONE coat for themselves and it wasn't until EotN when we'd get a bit variety. The fluffy thick Norn armour is still one of my fave to this date and I'd love to get that in GW2!! And now people complain about there being too many coats for medium armor, go figure. .....I'd like the Norn Ranger armor from EotN back too..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalimae.3406 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > @"Thalimae.3406" said: > > > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > > > @"Thalimae.3406" said: > > > > > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > > > > > @"Thalimae.3406" said: > > > > > > > > > > > **2) Why don't the male and female outfits look the same?** > > > > > > Answer: Because of design decisions that you may or may not like. Personally, I'm also not a fan of sets where the male armour is a bulky fully clothed version while the female one is a battle bikini with leftover scraps dangling from random parts for no reason. The issue that it all comes down to are long standing ideas of what is "feminine" and "masculine" and how certain looks need to be sexy (mostly for the female models, let's be real). It's annoying and it's been a long standing issue that goes back to GW1 so I don't expect any changes to this nonsense any time soon. > > > > > > > > > > To be frank, this "men get real armor and women get chain-mail bikinis" isn't really a thing in either GW1 or GW2. _Typically_ if one gender is showing skin the other will too, with some exceptions of course. See the tattoo monk armor and scar necro armor from gw1. Also, see above: some amount of female players, whatever that number might be, **do** like the skin showing armor. > > > > > > > > There are still terrible examples like the Elite Ranger Druid set where the men get a cool leather trench coat and everything and the women get -literally!- some random leather scraps and a bunch of sticks. You hand over tons of material and money to the armourer and don't even get a pair of shoes, for goodness' sake! And the whole line of Elementalist fashion is one variation of bikini/mini skirt/bra after another while the guys are always fully clothed. > > > > > > > > But yes, it's less of a problem than in other games, that's true. However female armour designs are still more likely to have random holes in it, or a bare midriff, or missing leggings or whatever. And more often than not this happens for no good reason. There is one armour set in the game that I am aware of were it's the reverse, i.e. the female is full armour and the male is missing a shirt and that is the Dolyak cultural armour for Norn. > > > > > > > > And it's not just about how much skin is being shown. Sometimes you also have design elements that don't match the other gender so it might as well just be two completely different sets at this point. > > > > > > > > Bottom line is that I would prefer the male and female designs to match as closely as possible. Of course, be free to accommodate the different physical builds and everything but I don't see the need to make armours any more different beyond that. And that's not about not wanting sexy female armour. But if you make a set with sexy female armour then let the male armour also be sexy and showing off some skin or whatever. > > > > > > I don't know what to tell you, as I've already said a plurality of player both male and female do like having some sexy/skin showing armors for females and seemingly aren't terribly interested in the same for male characters in comparison. Anet _has_ come pretty kitten close to having one to one with the armors and outfits, especially so with GW2. With gw1 druid's armor was just about the only salacious armor for female rangers in gw1, out of some two dozen armor sets. Elementalist armor did have a sizeable number yes, but when you look at the list only about half falls under "bikini armor". But look at the ritualists, paragons, and assassins; it is quite literally one to one with those armor sets. > > > But what Anet is doing right now is in general is probably for the best, making a roughly even mix of uniform, gendered and salacious armors. This is something that is going to please the largest number of people. > > > ......Now if only they'd do better at making actually good looking skins for armor, really wish they'd use more classics from gw1 regardless of what of the above categories they'd fall under. > > > > I was just clarifying my position, it's all good. :) > > > > On a personal note, the Elite Druid is bugging me so much cause I was maining Ranger back then and saw my buddy with his male ranger in this really great coat and I wanted that, too. And, well, you can imagine my disappointment when I saw the female version. It wasn't until Nightfall when female Rangers would finally get ONE coat for themselves and it wasn't until EotN when we'd get a bit variety. The fluffy thick Norn armour is still one of my fave to this date and I'd love to get that in GW2!! > > And now people complain about there being too many coats for medium armor, go figure. > .....I'd like the Norn Ranger armor from EotN back too..... Haha, true! People always want what they can't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liewec.2896 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 > @"Jimbru.6014" said: > Why do female Humans, Norn, and Sylvari run around in the game with more skin showing than would be legal in many real countries? because the majority of gamers are guys, and we like to look at ladies showing skin. (and also because some countries are stuck in the bronze age.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 > @"The Greyhawk.9107" said: > > @"Dami.5046" said: > > They should make all outfits Gender neutral and be done. gah. :/ > > Why? As more than a few of us have mentioned...repeatedly...it really wouldn't be that much less work on the back end to make all the outfits look the same, plus most people like some variety between the looks of the genders. I was being sarcastic. ...Gah... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbru.6014 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 > @"Tman.6349" said: > Why not just ask for more masculine looking female models and more feminine looking male models. Some of the male human and Sylvari models can be made fairly slight and even feminine. Norn not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Priestess.9760 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 ..... sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trise.2865 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 They aren't locked. They're distinct. Which is apparently offensive and should be hated. "Praise conformity!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 > @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > > @"sevenDEADLY.5281" said: > > Some quick research shows that roughly 4.5% of the US population and 6% in the EU identify as LGBTQ oriented. > > That is not game data. Additionally, LGBTQ is a separate issue from fashion, so I'm not sure why you're making them out to be mutually exclusive. You're clutching at straws here. LGBTQ does have a strong link with fashion. Now I agree they're not mutually exclusive but that doesn't mean that a lot of people across the board are interested in this and want to spend money on it. Besides, where's your proof that a lot of people want this? Do you have data to support that? And do you really think that after all these years nobody thought about this at ArenaNet to see whether or not this could be something they could make money with? Can you really seriously say that this never crossed their minds? As a general rule I think it's fair to assume that if it's easy and can make them good money, they will do it. If they haven't, there's reasons for it. I get that some people want it, but it's not a realistic request in my view. Now if ArenaNet wants to show some goodwill in that respect that's cool but I think they realise that if they do people will ask for more and goodwill can only go so far. I mean how many MMOs are there where male characters can wear feminine clothing and this is successful for them? I don't know any but maybe you do. But in an age where companies can score big brownie points in social media with such things and it still not happening, might just mean that the market for it just isn't big enough. You may not like it, but all things considered it's more likely to be true than untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryou.2398 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"Obfuscate.6430" said: > Because people just aren't ready for that yet. They haven't been able to make as much revealing armor for males as they have for females yet. We have some chest windows but not enough inner thigh windows, crotch bulges or buns of steel pants yet. Male models are relatively neglected in general because developers don't want to make "anyone uncomfortable" - and by anyone they mean the largest gamer demographic. > In short - they just aren't ready to do something as progressive as letting a male character wear a cocktail dress and garters. > > Just remember - the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. We need sexier male armor period. Sexy cross dressing may come later. (Though I suspect by then it will be a "jumping the shark" kind of scenario. lol!) You certainly are trying to be judgemental without it being obvious arent ya? The male armor is already full of skirts to begin with, if they add that option they should add more masculine armor then as well. Gee cannot even have a discussion without people trying to turn it into a political issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > Besides, where's your proof that a lot of people want this? Do you have data to support that? I never made such a claim, only that we don't have access to information that would prove a majority or minority among players of GW2 on either side of the issue and therefore posters should not act as though they know such things definitively or use that to push their opinions as fact. > @"Gehenna.3625" said: > As a general rule I think it's fair to assume that if it's easy and can make them good money, they will do it. That seems like a logical stance, but it hasn't always been the path this company takes. Often, they'll do double work or provide something unrequested instead of something easier or more frequently requested by players. Even if everyone on the forum was asking for gendered outfit availability across the board, there's a good chance we'd never get it based on past experience (or that we _would_ get it, but in a cursed form - looking at you, pegasus). It isn't that they never listen to feedback or adjust the game by popular demand, but several large-scale features and game changes over the last two years have fallen short and caused noticeable division and disruption in the player base. I don't know what their process is for game design, and I do not claim to. I know only what I observe. > I mean how many MMOs are there where male characters can wear feminine clothing and this is successful for them? The first one I can think of is probably Second Life, but this also assumes all MMOs design their clothing with the same kind of variation by gender that we've seen in this one, and can therefore have their fashion-to-success ratios charted similarly. Because clothing designs vary so much from game to game, it's hard to tell whether they're profiting off of gendered clothing or whether their clothing design doesn't vary enough for it to matter between genders. I only play this MMO, however, so my knowledge of pixelated fashion is mostly Tyria-oriented; sorry about that. I had dreams of becoming part of the Wider Web Fashion Police, but the academy process is brutal. At the end of the day, I don't think any sociological elements are the reason for GW2's gender-locked styles, they just coded for males and females because it was easy, called it a day, and then buried it under several metric tons of spaghetti code. Even if they wanted to unlock fashion (or armor weights for that matter), there's a good chance they couldn't based on messy code alone. Making two outfits per gender (which is what you'd be doing if you unlocked them) is cost prohibitive; the more likely solution would be what others have suggested, future outfits and armors that match better between the genders and don't have such massive differences between them. People seem very threatened by the idea of a woman wearing pants or a man in a skirt or kilt, but so long as a little bit of everything is present in the game, I see nothing wrong with discussing or requesting more fashion options, which is what the whole gender thing boils down to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greyhawk.9107 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > People seem very threatened by the idea of a woman wearing pants or a man in a skirt or kilt.....  Why do people say things like this? Its incredibly disingenuous and not reflective of reality at all. In case you weren't aware, women wear pants all the time in the west and no one cares. As for kilts: well, as someone that's part Celtic lemme just tell you...you have to **earn** the right to wear a kilt, laddie. And, both of these _do_ exist in game, the ritualist outfit, the sunspear outfit, the dervish outfit, the Elonian elementalist outfit...each of these does slap male characters into what effectively is a kilt or a skirt and no one complained about them or felt "threatened" by them. And easily half of female armor and outfits would probably fall under "pants" of some kind, and again no one has felt threatened by that. Please stop casting aspersions onto people that you've only interacted with via a video game forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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