Fantasylife.7981 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Necro is ridiculous and lich form is out of control, Downstate in this game is a joke very unbalance. This new patch has brought a lot of problems where before at least if you pull the right dmg anyone could go down now you just take it and can't kill someone hard counters now Exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotte in space.2158 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Fantasylife.7981" said: > Necro is ridiculous and lich form is out of control, Downstate in this game is a joke very unbalance. Every non-necro-player agrees with this >This new patch has brought a lot of problems where before at least if you pull the right dmg anyone could go down now you just take it and can't kill someone hard counters now Exist. Patience ! I am optimistic that dev-team will fix these problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne.6253 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Fantasylife.7981" said: > Necro is ridiculous and lich form is out of control, Downstate in this game is a joke very unbalance. This new patch has brought a lot of problems where before at least if you pull the right dmg anyone could go down now you just take it and can't kill someone hard counters now Exist. totally agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Don't worry soon necromancers will be dead and unviable for SPVP for the rest of the game goodbye necro forever. Its gonna be typical class dominations in SPVP: Ranger mesmer thief warrior and revenant oh and guardian support of course. Before the nerfs to dmg it was the overpowered power crept builds that dominated and the other ones like necro so pathetically weak that unless guarded 24/7 by a firebrand you couldn't survive. I think you could at least have some decency and allow necro some time to shine before taking away everything it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 why we should worry if necro is insane? if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"lare.5129" said: > why we should worry if necro is insane? > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? These last two sentences. Nice. People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"lare.5129" said: > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > These last two sentences. > Nice. > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. Necro is stupidly strong rn btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne.6253 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > These last two sentences. > > Nice. > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > Necro is stupidly strong rn btw totally agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GewRoo.4172 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"lare.5129" said: > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > These last two sentences. > Nice. > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea).  Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > These last two sentences. > > Nice. > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. >  Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere.      Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > Nice. > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > Â 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff combined daredevil deadeye and core abilities in one and exaggerating, like saying: Thief goes stealth for infinite time while regaining back their initiative and bursting, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against.  For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tharan.9085 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :) Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation. Edit: maybe I should mention to you that Im currently playing a BM/spite/ scourge on Power with 3 Wells and am easily top 100 soloQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GewRoo.4172 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff combined daredevil deadeye and core abilities in one and exaggerating, like saying: Thief goes stealth for infinite time while regaining back their initiative and bursting, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. Dude, literally everything is "vulnerable to big burst". What are you even trying to compare here? :D There are three or four things which are problematic with necromancer right now and it is not even up for debate (life force?!)- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. > > Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :) > Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation. Like i said, thief bursts hard. Acro thief warriors with rifle revenants can burst f airly hard with that facet of life in herald.(condi) Warriors are really strong with rifle and can burst real hard. Rangers with bow and pet can burst extremely hard 6+k  Even reaper has better ways to close gap with the claws that chill and get ya in melee range. Yeah i know reaper is necro but core is vulnerable to reaper.> @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff combined daredevil deadeye and core abilities in one and exaggerating, like saying: Thief goes stealth for infinite time while regaining back their initiative and bursting, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. > > Dude, literally everything is "vulnerable to big burst". What are you even trying to compare here? :D There are three or four things which are problematic with necromancer right now and it is not even up for debate (life force?!)- The issue is he exaggerated and got caught doing so. Yeah many people are calling for nerfs to necro but there is also exaggeration and claims and also requests to gut the class.  I won't deny life force gen is problematic, but at the same time, core is weaker than reaper so you need to be careful not to over nerf and leave in the trash bin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > > > > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > > > > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > > > > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > > > > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. > > > > Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :) > > Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation. > > Like i said, thief bursts hard. Acro thief warriors with rifle revenants can burst f airly hard with that facet of life in herald.(condi) Warriors are really strong with rifle and can burst real hard. Rangers with bow and pet can burst extremely hard 6+k > > Even reaper has better ways to close gap with the claws that chill and get ya in melee range. Yeah i know reaper is necro but core is vulnerable to reaper.> Â Thief really doesnt burst hard. Like, right now, a full glass thief with a full burst rotation will take off 1/4 of the non-shroud health of a necro. Which he will be able to heal back immediately. No build can actually burst kill a Necro. 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Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > > > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > > > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > > > > > > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > > > > > > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > > > > > > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > > > > > > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. > > > > > > Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :) > > > Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation. > > > > Like i said, thief bursts hard. Acro thief warriors with rifle revenants can burst f airly hard with that facet of life in herald.(condi) Warriors are really strong with rifle and can burst real hard. Rangers with bow and pet can burst extremely hard 6+k > > > > Even reaper has better ways to close gap with the claws that chill and get ya in melee range. Yeah i know reaper is necro but core is vulnerable to reaper.> > > Thief really doesnt burst hard. Like, right now, a full glass thief with a full burst rotation will take off 1/4 of the non-shroud health of a necro. Which he will be able to heal back immediately. No build can actually burst kill a Necro.  Hence why necro needs some small nerfs. Also from what i hear moa also works on shroud necro, and work s to CC them.(Moa from mesmer i believe?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > > > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > > > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > > > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > > > > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > > > > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > > > > > > > > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > > > > > > > > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > > > > > > > > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. > > > > > > > > Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :) > > > > Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation. > > > > > > Like i said, thief bursts hard. Acro thief warriors with rifle revenants can burst f airly hard with that facet of life in herald.(condi) Warriors are really strong with rifle and can burst real hard. Rangers with bow and pet can burst extremely hard 6+k > > > > > > Even reaper has better ways to close gap with the claws that chill and get ya in melee range. Yeah i know reaper is necro but core is vulnerable to reaper.> > > > > Thief really doesnt burst hard. Like, right now, a full glass thief with a full burst rotation will take off 1/4 of the non-shroud health of a necro. Which he will be able to heal back immediately. No build can actually burst kill a Necro. > > Hence why necro needs some small nerfs. > > Also from what i hear moa also works on shroud necro, and work s to CC them.(Moa from mesmer i believe?)Â Not "small" nerfs, huge nerfs. Right now, theyre unkillable, they need major hits to their survivability. Also CC works on shroud in general. The thing you may have heard is that despite Moa transforming Necro, their shroud still activates, meaning you cant even use that to kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > > > > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > > > > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > > > > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > > > > > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > > > > > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > > > > > > > > > > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :) > > > > > Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation. > > > > > > > > Like i said, thief bursts hard. Acro thief warriors with rifle revenants can burst f airly hard with that facet of life in herald.(condi) Warriors are really strong with rifle and can burst real hard. Rangers with bow and pet can burst extremely hard 6+k > > > > > > > > Even reaper has better ways to close gap with the claws that chill and get ya in melee range. Yeah i know reaper is necro but core is vulnerable to reaper.> > > > > > > Thief really doesnt burst hard. Like, right now, a full glass thief with a full burst rotation will take off 1/4 of the non-shroud health of a necro. Which he will be able to heal back immediately. No build can actually burst kill a Necro. > > > > Hence why necro needs some small nerfs. > > > > Also from what i hear moa also works on shroud necro, and work s to CC them.(Moa from mesmer i believe?) > > Not "small" nerfs, huge nerfs. Right now, theyre unkillable, they need major hits to their survivability. Also CC works on shroud in general. The thing you may have heard is that despite Moa transforming Necro, their shroud still activates, meaning you cant even use that to kill them. They are still vulnerable to CC, in fact more vulnerable than other classes and still vulnerable to mobility and core condi and boon corr did take a major hit,so massive nerfs would completely kill the class and make it unviable. They also depend on surviving in shroud too, so they need it to survive unless you consider fun being babysat by a firebrand 24/7, i certainly don't. Only reason its even this good now is because everyone else was nerfed down because everything previously was power crept to kitten and back, and they didn't take equal mechanical nerfs because every single class i kid you not, was mechanically superior.     Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 necros should lose a dodge, have -3k hp, increase shroud cd to 20, lose access to 1/2 its skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > > > > > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > > > > > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > > > > > > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > > > > > > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :) > > > > > > Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation. > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, thief bursts hard. Acro thief warriors with rifle revenants can burst f airly hard with that facet of life in herald.(condi) Warriors are really strong with rifle and can burst real hard. Rangers with bow and pet can burst extremely hard 6+k > > > > > > > > > > Even reaper has better ways to close gap with the claws that chill and get ya in melee range. Yeah i know reaper is necro but core is vulnerable to reaper.> > > > > > > > > Thief really doesnt burst hard. Like, right now, a full glass thief with a full burst rotation will take off 1/4 of the non-shroud health of a necro. Which he will be able to heal back immediately. No build can actually burst kill a Necro. > > > > > > Hence why necro needs some small nerfs. > > > > > > Also from what i hear moa also works on shroud necro, and work s to CC them.(Moa from mesmer i believe?) > > > > Not "small" nerfs, huge nerfs. Right now, theyre unkillable, they need major hits to their survivability. Also CC works on shroud in general. The thing you may have heard is that despite Moa transforming Necro, their shroud still activates, meaning you cant even use that to kill them. > > They are still vulnerable to CC, in fact more vulnerable than other classes and still vulnerable to mobility and core condi and boon corr did take a major hit,so massive nerfs would completely kill the class and make it unviable. > > They also depend on surviving in shroud too, so they need it to survive unless you consider fun being babysat by a firebrand 24/7, i certainly don't. Only reason its even this good now is because everyone else was nerfed down because everything previously was power crept to kitten and back, and they didn't take equal mechanical nerfs because every single class i kid you not, was mechanically superior. > > > > >  They really arent vulnerable to CC at all. Ignoring that they have 2 stunbreaks on low cooldowns, CC is as threatening as the damage you will take during it. A thief if he is CCd without a stunbreak is dead (and thieves stunbreaks are much longer cooldown). On the other hand, a Core Necro wont even lose half his life if he is CCd. Or anywhere close to it. Even in the unlikely case that you somehow manage to deplete his health bar, all thats going to do is activate Unholy Sanctuary and he still wont die. And nah, massive nerfs wont kill the class, the build is just *that* far out of line. The shroud is icing on the cake really. They are nearly impossible to kill even without it. And no, the reason its broken is because they forgot to nerf bunker builds, and as it turns out Necro is the best of the surviving bunker builds. Necro still took a bunch of nerfs- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Tharan.9085" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > why we should worry if necro is insane? > > > > > > > > > > > > > if that true - they all get place in upper division, and we will play in non upper, where no necro, and get same % of lose/wins. > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if some class is up - this is absolutely no make inject to out gamelay. So problem solved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I am sure that necro is not insane. But who care? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These last two sentences. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People just didn't adapt, and most players still trying to play their old playstyle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If someone's not able to counter a necro: go play the class/build yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > And especially go play against good players, that know how to counter a necro, or ask a necro player about necro's weaknesses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true at all. The current necromancer bunker builds have absolutely no counter build nor counter play. There is no build or trait related mechanic to abuse, no weakness to exploit, close to no skill cap to make this build perfom well, and on top of that very short windows in which dmg or CC can be applied (Shroud/Lich). While it's not unkillable in classical meaning there is literally no other way to adapt to this kind of sustainable builds in 2v2 or 5v5 than mirroring it (watch the mAT final when reworked Scrapper was a thing to get an idea). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Additionally, saying that Necromancer and its specialisations were weak pre patch is more than debatable. Core was performing pretty well in the past months and until ANet reworked Scourge both the Blood and the Curses build were meta defining in ATs and ranked. Players like Wing, Imda, Gornit, Mijo and Sinid were playing it for ages and always ranked in legendary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow you sound like you don't play necro or know anything about necro at all then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Necros were ultra vulnerable to mobile classes with big burst, of which most classes could perform under that. Because of the power creep of dmg sustain from other classes, necros tended to be punching bags. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for weaknesses, you are kidding me right? necros are vulnerable to big burst kiting and CC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes with tons of mobility CC: well duh there is thief and rev rangers got good mobility CC and blast dmg. > > > > > > > > > > Warrs have massive amounts of CC(Rampage) and big burst with rifle still. > > > > > > > > > > Guardians can burst and got reasonably high sustain and cc. they aren't as mobile as others but pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So there you have it. Rangers thief revs warrs guardians are pretty strong. > > > > > > > > > > Remember that heavy burst kills necro. a reaper also works reasonably well v s core necro too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Core necros have also weaker burst than reaper and condi is fairly weak now on core and boon corrupt is overshadowed by boonspam, so if you nerf sustain, you will have to seriously buff them elsewhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. You want to deny that core nec was good? > > > > > > > > > 2. You want to deny necro is absolutely stupid rn? > > > > > > > > > 3. Aren't you like gold? Maybe it's a l2p issue :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its easy to deny things that are false. If i lied and said something dumb like:Thiefs have no wekanesses they got all this stuff daredevil abilities exaggerating, then yes of course a main thief member is going to call it out and say that is a kitten lie and false statement. You were caught lying about weaknesses. Either that, or you don't know anything about necro. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, i called you out that they are weak vs heavy burst as heavy burst is able to burn their shroud down, while also ccing them. Stun them CC them while bursting and cripple them while kiting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you had said they might need slight nerfs i would concede that. If you wanted to discuss what should be nerfed actually knowing how it works? fine. There are people out there who know necro class way better than i do, and thats fine, but if you want ANET to listen to you and take you seriously, you should really at least understand what they are weak against. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For instance: Did you not notice their ability to gain stab was nerfed? They are massively vulnerable to cc, more so than others and some classes still burst really really hard like revenant and guardian can burst pretty well too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh yes, they are weak to 1v2s and 1v3s :) > > > > > > > Tell me a single class that can currently burst down a necro reliable in a 1v1 situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Like i said, thief bursts hard. Acro thief warriors with rifle revenants can burst f airly hard with that facet of life in herald.(condi) Warriors are really strong with rifle and can burst real hard. Rangers with bow and pet can burst extremely hard 6+k > > > > > > > > > > > > Even reaper has better ways to close gap with the claws that chill and get ya in melee range. Yeah i know reaper is necro but core is vulnerable to reaper.> > > > > > > > > > > Thief really doesnt burst hard. Like, right now, a full glass thief with a full burst rotation will take off 1/4 of the non-shroud health of a necro. Which he will be able to heal back immediately. No build can actually burst kill a Necro. > > > > > > > > Hence why necro needs some small nerfs. > > > > > > > > Also from what i hear moa also works on shroud necro, and work s to CC them.(Moa from mesmer i believe?) > > > > > > Not "small" nerfs, huge nerfs. Right now, theyre unkillable, they need major hits to their survivability. Also CC works on shroud in general. The thing you may have heard is that despite Moa transforming Necro, their shroud still activates, meaning you cant even use that to kill them. > > > > They are still vulnerable to CC, in fact more vulnerable than other classes and still vulnerable to mobility and core condi and boon corr did take a major hit,so massive nerfs would completely kill the class and make it unviable. > > > > They also depend on surviving in shroud too, so they need it to survive unless you consider fun being babysat by a firebrand 24/7, i certainly don't. Only reason its even this good now is because everyone else was nerfed down because everything previously was power crept to kitten and back, and they didn't take equal mechanical nerfs because every single class i kid you not, was mechanically superior. > > > > > > > > > > > > They really arent vulnerable to CC at all. Ignoring that they have 2 stunbreaks on low cooldowns, CC is as threatening as the damage you will take during it. A thief if he is CCd without a stunbreak is dead (and thieves stunbreaks are much longer cooldown). On the other hand, a Core Necro wont even lose half his life if he is CCd. Or anywhere close to it. Even in the unlikely case that you somehow manage to deplete his health bar, all thats going to do is activate Unholy Sanctuary and he still wont die. And nah, massive nerfs wont kill the class, the build is just *that* far out of line. > > The shroud is icing on the cake really. They are nearly impossible to kill even without it. And no, the reason its broken is because they forgot to nerf bunker builds, and as it turns out Necro is the best of the surviving bunker builds. Necro still took a bunch of nerfs- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stability Most have a long cd and Lich which is one of the more used ones has a 150 sec CD almost as long as summon FGS and well of power has 1 sec of stab, so yes it def got nerfed. Also stab effects Knockback stuns kock in the air daze etc, so yes they are def vulnerable. Both core and reaper are both way more vulnerable now as we got our stab with higher cd than everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilora.9524 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 There's always one dude that will argue forever with a damn necro icon that only plays necro saying oh yeah I could cc and burst me down on any other class but I don't cuz you know why but I def could easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UMS.1976 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Core necro is insanely strong against condi builds (due to shroud mechanics that swallow condis) and can res easily, but is unable to do decent damage or CC. Lich is the only option to do damage - nerf it a bit. In case necro will be hard nerfed - it will be dead profession. Previously i was a power creep reaper (kill or be killed, at least quite fun) or fear spam machine. Due to damage nerf - reaper is not so usefull, and condi from necro is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malsheem.1794 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Any chance we could call out the specific necro-spec instead of just "Necro is OP". Im mean, i´d prefer not to have my scourge made even more dogsh1t in spvp than it already is. Thx :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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