sayori.4836 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Deadeye needs to be looked at and nerfed. Full 'zerker warrior but nearly 11k backstab out of stealth and nearly 9k heartseeker which is spammable is NOT okay. My friend who was on necro got hit even harder. And there are those uncatchable perma deadeye thieves with almost perma stealth...again. This really has to be addressed. The patch was good, made some changes in the right direction but thieve managed to slip between the nerfs again.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 I knew it. heartseek OP **nerf teef** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yasai.3549 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 I don't care if I get death threats, but I would think it's high time Leap finisher got removed from Heart Seeker. Thieves have abused Stealth combos for so long and so much that they are basically married to the idea that Thief is useless without Stealth. Time to seriously take it from them and force them to actually play the game instead of cheesing with endless Stealth spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayori.4836 Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > I don't care if I get death threats, but I would think it's high time Leap finisher got removed from Heart Seeker. > > Thieves have abused Stealth combos for so long and so much that they are basically married to the idea that Thief is useless without Stealth. > Time to seriously take it from them and force them to actually play the game instead of cheesing with endless Stealth spam. True. But you know what will they do if d/p is balanced? Run s/d and that's probably more cheesy and takes even less skill. The whole stealth mechanic and thieve as a class is just broken and needs to be reworked from the ground up but Arenanet is never going to make this effort so the best we will get is some good bandaid solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ens.9854 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Looks like you didn't even react. Also it only does 8k when you are <25% (its a finisher move) and probably have only 5k health. i.e. you would have died even if they nerfed it by another 33%. The finisher damage only matters in rare situations that thief finds a low health tank. Glass thief not in a great spot right now as 90% of meta builds will ignore their burst. I feel for you playing warrior though they are in an even worse. Should probably be asking for war buffs not thief nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Might be the thief also has infiltrator runes too and executioner trait, but yes there seems to be no reaction here, must also be in downed state already for that heartseeker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"sayori.4836" said: > Deadeye needs to be looked at and nerfed. > Full 'zerker warrior but nearly 11k backstab out of stealth and nearly 9k heartseeker which is spammable is NOT okay. My friend who was on necro got hit even harder. > And there are those uncatchable perma deadeye thieves with almost perma stealth...again. > This really has to be addressed. The patch was good, made some changes in the right direction but thieve managed to slip between the nerfs again. > >  > I run full out zerk thief and most high crit heart seekers reach 6k tops but yes I've gotten 10k backstabs also dull dps build but very glass. With ranger pets doing 5k passive damage and spec like fb doing 36k burns in seconds while having crazy sustain for itself and group but yes nerfs thiefs 6-10k if all stars align glass build bursts lol unreal. Warriors my jam and their in a tough spot after patch except for splb f1 which will be fixed soon but no reason to nerf thief more, it's been nerfed enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"Yasai.3549" said: > I don't care if I get death threats, but I would think it's high time Leap finisher got removed from Heart Seeker. > > Thieves have abused Stealth combos for so long and so much that they are basically married to the idea that Thief is useless without Stealth. > Time to seriously take it from them and force them to actually play the game instead of cheesing with endless Stealth spam. Hahaha omg u guys are really out to delete thief eh wow. Thank god I doubt that would ever happen. Theres asking for reasonable shaves and then there's idea's like this lol maybe we should increase ini cost more to while were at it so one skill uses up all its resources so it can't fight back, after all that's ur plan no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoodi.5849 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 yeah thieves are way too forgiving at the moment no risk all reward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > It's funny it's always the same handful of players flooding the forums with thief nerf posts and or joining them lol. Seriously get over ur issues with them and move on lol. I'm sure there are players that dislike the classes u guys play and I'm sure u don't want ur class gutted or deleted so maybe realizing there's more people playing this game than u would help :) Do you here the bell ? :P So you going threads to thead saying that the thief can backstab less 5k , and in a matter of 2 hours when ppl showcase they Damage taken you are going to ...''yeah i have it done too , so it ok ( i have pre-screened just in case). What does it has to do that the warrior goes nerfed (the trait that get invanubility at 50%) , does anything have to do with Thief going 10k back stab ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayori.4836 Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"ens.9854" said: > Looks like you didn't even react. Also it only does 8k when you are <25% (its a finisher move) and probably have only 5k health. i.e. you would have died even if they nerfed it by another 33%. The finisher damage only matters in rare situations that thief finds a low health tank. > > Glass thief not in a great spot right now as 90% of meta builds will ignore their burst. I feel for you playing warrior though they are in an even worse. Should probably be asking for war buffs not thief nerfs. Nah, I was about 90-95% when he backstabbed me, initially I'd have reacted but I got distracted for a moment so couldn't dodge. Don't think warrior is in a bad state, I'd win most fights except condi rev and burn guardian. > @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > Might be the thief also has infiltrator runes too and executioner trait, but yes there seems to be no reaction here, must also be in downed state already for that heartseeker. Nope, I was fully alive.> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"sayori.4836" said: > > Deadeye needs to be looked at and nerfed. > > Full 'zerker warrior but nearly 11k backstab out of stealth and nearly 9k heartseeker which is spammable is NOT okay. My friend who was on necro got hit even harder. > > And there are those uncatchable perma deadeye thieves with almost perma stealth...again. > > This really has to be addressed. The patch was good, made some changes in the right direction but thieve managed to slip between the nerfs again. > > > >  > > > > I run full out zerk thief and most high crit heart seekers reach 6k tops but yes I've gotten 10k backstabs also dull dps build but very glass. With ranger pets doing 5k passive damage and spec like fb doing 36k burns in seconds while having crazy sustain for itself and group but yes nerfs thiefs 6-10k if all stars align glass build bursts lol unreal. > Warriors my jam and their in a tough spot after patch except for splb f1 which will be fixed soon but no reason to nerf thief more, it's been nerfed enough. Yes, burn guard, condi rev, sb rangers still have to be nerfed, but the thread is about thieves :) This is definitely not "when the stars align" moment, the cheesy "oneshot" deadeye build has been going on for awhile now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakytails.5629 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Things did change though post patch for Thief vs X. Before the patch the Thief was very squishy, it could be downed easily by any real burst and even cleave damage. This felt balanced against what thief could do, and the fact that they do not play around cooldowns like the rest of the classes in GW2. Now most bursts are not hitting anywhere near as high, and the harder hitting CC's are doing almost zero damage this is making taking down Thief's in the very small windows you get very difficult now. Lets face it, versus the thief class you only really get small windows to apply your damage. The rest of the time its, blind, blind, evade, evade, teleport, teleport, stealth, stealth, etc. As long as I can burst the thief reliably then all the blinds, evades, and stealth's are somewhat acceptable. Post patch this has been flipped on its head, the window is gone now, and thief holds the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 The OP was full glass correct? If he had soldiers (wouldn’t recommend) or something with toughness, I may have more of a problem with this. But knowing a thief is around, (malicious backstab requires set up) and knowing you are full glass doesn’t bode well. What we also don’t see is when this occurred.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 When talking balance everything is relative regarding all classes. 10k occasional bursts from a glass full damage build thief would definitely be OP if other classes were bursting for 3 or 4k on zerk builds but that isnt the case is it? Rangers pets doint 6k passive damage hits, fb doing 36k burns in seconds while having crazy sustain, mirage still doing one shot burst, splb doing 11k f1's and not even gonna mention rangers maul, necrosis and condi revs lmao. Of all these far more extreme cases it shows real bias to still be targeting thief. The fact certain classes are in the insane state their in post patch and thief is ur guys target for more un needed nerfs is very telling :) that's all I'm saying on the ridiculous matter. [moderator: content edited] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ens.9854 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Meant heartseeker btw. A malicious backstab should hit high numbers regardless. > @"sayori.4836" said: > Don't think warrior is in a bad state, I'd win most fights except condi rev and burn guardian. Power vs power matchups all feel great (outside of a couple outliers and bunkers). TTK is long enough to go through a couple rotations. They pretty much achieved what they were going for. Unfortunately that's not the meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"sayori.4836" said: > > @"ens.9854" said: > > Looks like you didn't even react. Also it only does 8k when you are <25% (its a finisher move) and probably have only 5k health. i.e. you would have died even if they nerfed it by another 33%. The finisher damage only matters in rare situations that thief finds a low health tank. > > > > Glass thief not in a great spot right now as 90% of meta builds will ignore their burst. I feel for you playing warrior though they are in an even worse. Should probably be asking for war buffs not thief nerfs. > > Nah, I was about 90-95% when he backstabbed me, initially I'd have reacted but I got distracted for a moment so couldn't dodge. > Don't think warrior is in a bad state, I'd win most fights except condi rev and burn guardian. > > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said: > > Might be the thief also has infiltrator runes too and executioner trait, but yes there seems to be no reaction here, must also be in downed state already for that heartseeker. > Nope, I was fully alive.> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"sayori.4836" said: > > > Deadeye needs to be looked at and nerfed. > > > Full 'zerker warrior but nearly 11k backstab out of stealth and nearly 9k heartseeker which is spammable is NOT okay. My friend who was on necro got hit even harder. > > > And there are those uncatchable perma deadeye thieves with almost perma stealth...again. > > > This really has to be addressed. The patch was good, made some changes in the right direction but thieve managed to slip between the nerfs again. > > > > > >  > > > > > > > I run full out zerk thief and most high crit heart seekers reach 6k tops but yes I've gotten 10k backstabs also dull dps build but very glass. With ranger pets doing 5k passive damage and spec like fb doing 36k burns in seconds while having crazy sustain for itself and group but yes nerfs thiefs 6-10k if all stars align glass build bursts lol unreal. > > Warriors my jam and their in a tough spot after patch except for splb f1 which will be fixed soon but no reason to nerf thief more, it's been nerfed enough. > Yes, burn guard, condi rev, sb rangers still have to be nerfed, but the thread is about thieves :) This is definitely not "when the stars align" moment, the cheesy "oneshot" deadeye build has been going on for awhile now. > > > Yeah actually it is a stars align moment so.... I run a berz/CS Thief geard for full dps and on most low health targets I get anywhere from 3k to max 6k but the 6k is seldom. Backstabs usually range from 5-8k max unless against full glass builds. Most of the time my burst plus heart seeker if I get it off still leaves most specs/builds with 50% ish hp and due to how glass the thief is and where sustain is I hardly see that as a issue. What do u want? A thief to burn its ini to get longer duration stealth to set up a backsttab to drop its opponent hp by 10-15% max putting thief in now melee range to get double or triple tapped vs the how many hits it take to down the opponent vs the thief? Lol yeah so thief would tickle opponent than have to run, good playstyle ur trying for there lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antipode.7830 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Malicious Backstab* - this still looks like a Deadeye problem. Deadeye is a pain in the ass. Part of the big damage here is probably because of huge might stacks and malice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"sneakytails.5629" said: > Things did change though post patch for Thief vs X. Before the patch the Thief was very squishy, it could be downed easily by any real burst and even cleave damage. This felt balanced against what thief could do, and the fact that they do not play around cooldowns like the rest of the classes in GW2. > > Now most bursts are not hitting anywhere near as high, and the harder hitting CC's are doing almost zero damage this is making taking down Thief's in the very small windows you get very difficult now. Lets face it, versus the thief class you only really get small windows to apply your damage. The rest of the time its, blind, blind, evade, evade, teleport, teleport, stealth, stealth, etc. > > As long as I can burst the thief reliably then all the blinds, evades, and stealth's are somewhat acceptable. Post patch this has been flipped on its head, the window is gone now, and thief holds the advantage. A spellbreaker can delete 10k of 11k health in one f1. One bullscharge,100 blades and f1 on core deletes a marauder thief, I've done it using frenzy as its ur friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > It's funny it's always the same handful of players flooding the forums with thief nerf posts and or joining them lol. Seriously get over ur issues with them and move on lol. I'm sure there are players that dislike the classes u guys play and I'm sure u don't want ur class gutted or deleted so maybe realizing there's more people playing this game than u would help :) > > > > Do you here the bell ? :P > > > > So you going threads to thead saying that the thief can backstab less 5k , and in a matter of 2 hours when ppl showcase they Damage taken you are going to ...''yeah i have it done too , so it ok ( i have pre-screened just in case). > > What does it has to do that the warrior goes nerfed (the trait that get invanubility at 50%) , does anything have to do with Thief going 10k back stab ? > > When talking balance everything is relative regarding all classes. 10k occasional bursts from a glass full damage build thief would definitely be OP if other classes were bursting for 3 or 4k on zerk builds but that isnt the case is it? Rangers pets doint 6k passive damage hits, fb doing 36k burns in seconds while having crazy sustain, mirage still doing one shot burst, splb doing 11k f1's and not even gonna mention rangers maul, necrosis and condi revs lmao. Of all these far more extreme cases it shows real bias to still be targeting thief. The fact certain classes are in the insane state their in post patch and thief is ur guys target for more un needed nerfs is very telling :) that's all I'm saying on the ridiculous matter. There are threads that people whine about them Splb + ranger can they do as much of the damage they wish because they are meele . They dont have an istant teleportation in F1 with such low cd and no animation to react to . Dont call the bias card on me , because you are doing right now :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killthehealersffs.8940 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"sneakytails.5629" said: > > Things did change though post patch for Thief vs X. Before the patch the Thief was very squishy, it could be downed easily by any real burst and even cleave damage. This felt balanced against what thief could do, and the fact that they do not play around cooldowns like the rest of the classes in GW2. > > > > Now most bursts are not hitting anywhere near as high, and the harder hitting CC's are doing almost zero damage this is making taking down Thief's in the very small windows you get very difficult now. Lets face it, versus the thief class you only really get small windows to apply your damage. The rest of the time its, blind, blind, evade, evade, teleport, teleport, stealth, stealth, etc. > > > > As long as I can burst the thief reliably then all the blinds, evades, and stealth's are somewhat acceptable. Post patch this has been flipped on its head, the window is gone now, and thief holds the advantage. > > A spellbreaker can delete 10k of 11k health in one f1. > One bullscharge,100 blades and f1 on core deletes a marauder thief, I've done it using frenzy as its ur friend. HuH they used 2 utilities skills , so there must have only 1 defensive How much again a thief doing 10k malicious backstab , has used their utilities ... ? some1 will say that they have stocked defensive ones instead of attacking ones like Warrior Ps:Bull@@ warriors with their selfhealing .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sayori.4836 Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Yeah actually it is a stars align moment so.... I run a berz/CS Thief geard for full dps and on most low health targets I get anywhere from 3k to max 6k but the 6k is seldom. Backstabs usually range from 5-8k max unless against full glass builds. Most of the time my burst plus heart seeker if I get it off still leaves most specs/builds with 50% ish hp and due to how glass the thief is and where sustain is I hardly see that as a issue. What do u want? A thief to burn its ini to get longer duration stealth to set up a backsttab to drop its opponent hp by 10-15% max putting thief in now melee range to get double or triple tapped vs the how many hits it take to down the opponent vs the thief? Lol yeah so thief would tickle opponent than have to run, good playstyle ur trying for there lol Come on...it's not a stars align moment. I even told you my necro friend got hit harder and he was also at full hp. Full glass differs between light, medium and heavy armor. And small correction, I wasn't full zerk, forgot I changed armor yesterday so it's marauder+berserker, health pool must have been 22k-ish. If I've been 21k hp as he backstabs that leaves me with ~9.2k hp(siphoning, venom considered too), far above 25% threshold. This means the thief took 56% of my health with one skill :) The heartseeker damage itself is "okay" if we consider that fact it's a singletarget, what is not ok is that the skill is so much more and it has modifiers while being spammable...it's basically a no-brainer skill. It's rather funny you talk about bias but you play thief and keep talking how other classes are broken. They are but we are talking about thief, not the others. I have no issues having my class nerfed, have played warrior since the beginning, never complained about the nerfs. And I haven't seen spellbreaker doing 11k with F1 after the patch at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"Killthehealersffs.8940" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"sneakytails.5629" said: > > > Things did change though post patch for Thief vs X. Before the patch the Thief was very squishy, it could be downed easily by any real burst and even cleave damage. This felt balanced against what thief could do, and the fact that they do not play around cooldowns like the rest of the classes in GW2. > > > > > > Now most bursts are not hitting anywhere near as high, and the harder hitting CC's are doing almost zero damage this is making taking down Thief's in the very small windows you get very difficult now. Lets face it, versus the thief class you only really get small windows to apply your damage. The rest of the time its, blind, blind, evade, evade, teleport, teleport, stealth, stealth, etc. > > > > > > As long as I can burst the thief reliably then all the blinds, evades, and stealth's are somewhat acceptable. Post patch this has been flipped on its head, the window is gone now, and thief holds the advantage. > > > > A spellbreaker can delete 10k of 11k health in one f1. > > One bullscharge,100 blades and f1 on core deletes a marauder thief, I've done it using frenzy as its ur friend. > > HuH they used 2 utilities skills , so there must have only 1 defensive > How much again a thief doing 10k malicious backstab , has used their utilities ... ? > some1 will say that they have stocked defensive ones instead of attacking ones like Warrior Well for one if it's long duration stealth they used smoke screen utility. If they used black powder and HS to gain the stealth to surprise the opponent with a backstab the prob have 3 or 4 ini by time they attack. I'd say having half or more of ur global resources gone at time of attack trumps others using two utilities, at least in my opinion. Stealth upkeep isn't free. Even now with core war not having splb inflated f1 still unless a thief gets a jump on me when I'm not aware I delete more thiefs on my war than they do me so problem is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"sayori.4836" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Yeah actually it is a stars align moment so.... I run a berz/CS Thief geard for full dps and on most low health targets I get anywhere from 3k to max 6k but the 6k is seldom. Backstabs usually range from 5-8k max unless against full glass builds. Most of the time my burst plus heart seeker if I get it off still leaves most specs/builds with 50% ish hp and due to how glass the thief is and where sustain is I hardly see that as a issue. What do u want? A thief to burn its ini to get longer duration stealth to set up a backsttab to drop its opponent hp by 10-15% max putting thief in now melee range to get double or triple tapped vs the how many hits it take to down the opponent vs the thief? Lol yeah so thief would tickle opponent than have to run, good playstyle ur trying for there lol > > Come on...it's not a stars align moment. I even told you my necro friend got hit harder and he was also at full hp. Full glass differs between light, medium and heavy armor. And small correction, I wasn't full zerk, forgot I changed armor yesterday so it's marauder+berserker, health pool must have been 22k-ish. If I've been 21k hp as he backstabs that leaves me with ~9.2k hp(siphoning, venom considered too), far above 25% threshold. This means the thief took 56% of my health with one skill :) > The heartseeker damage itself is "okay" if we consider that fact it's a singletarget, what is not ok is that the skill is so much more and it has modifiers while being spammable...it's basically a no-brainer skill. > It's rather funny you talk about bias but you play thief and keep talking how other classes are broken. They are but we are talking about thief, not the others. I have no issues having my class nerfed, have played warrior since the beginning, never complained about the nerfs. > And I haven't seen spellbreaker doing 11k with F1 after the patch at all. Man my normal build is CS/trickery and either DA or DD with zerk and eagle runes and I get 3-6 heartseekers but 6 is less often than 3-5k. I get 10k sontimes bit more on rare occasions if backstabbing another glass zerk build. If its half the sustaining builds that are prevalent now there left with more than half their hp, usually hitting for 4kish-8kish. Given thief's squishyness I hardly see that as a issue. Other than warrior thief is all I play and those are the common numbers I see. Think about it if a zerk thief hot backstabs of 3-4k on average in the games state as it is ud might as well delete the class cuz every engagement would be backstabb to HS than leave cuz the opponent would have far to much hp left relative to how glass the thief is. I'd never win an engagement not even if it got the jump on someone, that seem right? I know that seems preferable but definitely isnt right nor balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 I don't play thief but I'm not really seeing what the problem is. I have yet to run across a thief like this. This looks like an outlier situation, not a wider problem that needs nerfing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarty.8019 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 > @"sayori.4836" said: > Deadeye needs to be looked at and nerfed. > Full 'zerker warrior but nearly 11k backstab out of stealth and nearly 9k heartseeker which is spammable is NOT okay. My friend who was on necro got hit even harder. > And there are those uncatchable perma deadeye thieves with almost perma stealth...again. > This really has to be addressed. The patch was good, made some changes in the right direction but thieve managed to slip between the nerfs again. > >  > You present a clear case for nerfing necro again, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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