Mesmer needs buff

[bravan.3876]

> @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > All the haters can sugarcoat it as much as they want. But it's an undeniable fact that Mesmer as it is, RIGHT NOW....

> > > Fails to excel at a single thing compared to other classes. Wasn't that what class identity was all about? Strong against something but weak at other things.

> > > Mind you I made a completely broken build for WvW, but it's simply unusable in PvP because of food and rune/sigil options.

> > > ANet will do well to give mesmer some endurance regen that equates to what the WvW food gives us (40% endurance gain, that's all we really need). That and maybe a reballance of Energy sigils to fit the current meta. We don't want them as an auto include, but if you're gonna make them mandatory for certain classes to even work, can we at least have the option of not having to auto include 2 and still do well?

> >

> > The problem is, when you now add more endurance reggen to a one dodge only bar it gets even more braindead spammy. Means you will even more force the situation where you just dumbed down the spec while not even solving any issue and make it more and more spammy and more and more dumbed down and passive the more endurance reggen you add.

> > They just should give Mirage 2 dodges back and then adjust ambush dmg down to a balanced lvl. Like lower gs ambush dmg from the Mirage itself (the clones do not rly do much dmg anyway, maybe reduce the might and vulnerability stacks a little bit) and rework Condi ambushes into something more being about effects and not dmg. Like you can make axe ambush stack a balanced amount of condition-dmg-stats for a short duration to force offensive dodges before goind for an axe 3 shatter burst, staff ambush can stack condition duration stat for a short duration, scepter could get a very little and well animated and with decent casttime added immob (1/4s on Mesmers, 1/8s on clones as duration, or just 1/4 on all skills while Mesmers own ambush has a little bit dmg in addition to be stronger than clone ambushes), that would force the Mesmer into offensive dodges to hit a short immob to prepare and secure a scepter 3 hit for example. Another possibility would be chill for scepter. Scepter ambush in general should be reworked to something with less single hits. Make it a one hit skill. For those changes condi clone ambushes ofc lose most of their condistacks (on scepter clones wouldn't do any dmg aside form stacking the effect). So you would need to dodge offensive to prepare a condi "burst" or a hit of bigger and active condiskills like shatters or weaponskills. These are just examples, there are lot of ways to rework condi ambushes and/ or nerf their dmg to a balanced lvl with giving 2 dodges back while keeping Mirage not op compared to the overall nerfed post patch situation.

> >

> > If you only give 2 dodges back to Mirage into the current situation where most stuff is nerfed too, it would probably be too op (at least on Condimirage, probably also on Power). So you ofc need to compensate the more dodges with nerfs at other places. And reworking amsbushes and nerfing ambush dmg where needed (from either Mesmers own ambush or clone ambushes) should be done in terms of higher skill ceiling and less passive playstyle anyway.

>

> That's just never gonna happen, based on ANet's balancing philosophy of always going forward. The only hope we can have of getting Mesmer some semblance of balance, would be if they take all phants and do smth else with them (make them an attack or smth), take all clone damage out and leave them as visual clutter, make IH baseline minor trait in mirage somewhere. Give the Mesmer all the clone damage and stuff and balance from there. Obv fix our current 1 dodge predicament either via endurance gains a la Daredevil along with a bump on vigor. You just can't balance phants cuz Chronophantasma broken, you can't balance clones cuz ppl are lazy and spam clone ambushes all day everyday. The solution seems pretty clear from where I'm looking at it.

>

> Do you know how happy I'd be if I don't have to rely on stupid pet AI to go on a ledge and hope that its pathing doesn't mess up?

 

Don't know but that sounds like more balance work for Anet and way less senseful changes than what i suggest^^ And that is not necessary true that Anet never revert things, i remember few things got changed back after several balance patches on several classes. On Mesmer i remember the number of bounced on gs2 got changed back and forward at least one time. If we can expect such logical back-moves from the new balance team or not is another story, looking at the whole trade off agenda mess they seems to be less... uhm everything. No clue if the devs listen to any players but if yes than it is clearly the wrong ones since a while now.

[ArlAlt.1630]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said:

> > > > All the haters can sugarcoat it as much as they want. But it's an undeniable fact that Mesmer as it is, RIGHT NOW....

> > > > Fails to excel at a single thing compared to other classes. Wasn't that what class identity was all about? Strong against something but weak at other things.

> > > > Mind you I made a completely broken build for WvW, but it's simply unusable in PvP because of food and rune/sigil options.

> > > > ANet will do well to give mesmer some endurance regen that equates to what the WvW food gives us (40% endurance gain, that's all we really need). That and maybe a reballance of Energy sigils to fit the current meta. We don't want them as an auto include, but if you're gonna make them mandatory for certain classes to even work, can we at least have the option of not having to auto include 2 and still do well?

> > >

> > > The problem is, when you now add more endurance reggen to a one dodge only bar it gets even more braindead spammy. Means you will even more force the situation where you just dumbed down the spec while not even solving any issue and make it more and more spammy and more and more dumbed down and passive the more endurance reggen you add.

> > > They just should give Mirage 2 dodges back and then adjust ambush dmg down to a balanced lvl. Like lower gs ambush dmg from the Mirage itself (the clones do not rly do much dmg anyway, maybe reduce the might and vulnerability stacks a little bit) and rework Condi ambushes into something more being about effects and not dmg. Like you can make axe ambush stack a balanced amount of condition-dmg-stats for a short duration to force offensive dodges before goind for an axe 3 shatter burst, staff ambush can stack condition duration stat for a short duration, scepter could get a very little and well animated and with decent casttime added immob (1/4s on Mesmers, 1/8s on clones as duration, or just 1/4 on all skills while Mesmers own ambush has a little bit dmg in addition to be stronger than clone ambushes), that would force the Mesmer into offensive dodges to hit a short immob to prepare and secure a scepter 3 hit for example. Another possibility would be chill for scepter. Scepter ambush in general should be reworked to something with less single hits. Make it a one hit skill. For those changes condi clone ambushes ofc lose most of their condistacks (on scepter clones wouldn't do any dmg aside form stacking the effect). So you would need to dodge offensive to prepare a condi "burst" or a hit of bigger and active condiskills like shatters or weaponskills. These are just examples, there are lot of ways to rework condi ambushes and/ or nerf their dmg to a balanced lvl with giving 2 dodges back while keeping Mirage not op compared to the overall nerfed post patch situation.

> > >

> > > If you only give 2 dodges back to Mirage into the current situation where most stuff is nerfed too, it would probably be too op (at least on Condimirage, probably also on Power). So you ofc need to compensate the more dodges with nerfs at other places. And reworking amsbushes and nerfing ambush dmg where needed (from either Mesmers own ambush or clone ambushes) should be done in terms of higher skill ceiling and less passive playstyle anyway.

> >

> > That's just never gonna happen, based on ANet's balancing philosophy of always going forward. The only hope we can have of getting Mesmer some semblance of balance, would be if they take all phants and do smth else with them (make them an attack or smth), take all clone damage out and leave them as visual clutter, make IH baseline minor trait in mirage somewhere. Give the Mesmer all the clone damage and stuff and balance from there. Obv fix our current 1 dodge predicament either via endurance gains a la Daredevil along with a bump on vigor. You just can't balance phants cuz Chronophantasma broken, you can't balance clones cuz ppl are lazy and spam clone ambushes all day everyday. The solution seems pretty clear from where I'm looking at it.

> >

> > Do you know how happy I'd be if I don't have to rely on stupid pet AI to go on a ledge and hope that its pathing doesn't mess up?

>

> Don't know but that sounds like more balance work for naet and way less senseful changes than what i suggest^^ And that is not necessary true that Anet never revert things, i remember few things got changed back after several balance patches on several classes. On Mesmer i remember the number of bounced on gs2 got changed back and forward at least one time. If we can expect such logical back-moves from the new balance team or not is another story, looking at the whole trade off agenda mess they seems to be less... uhm everything. No clue if the devs listen to any players but if yes than it is clearly the wrong ones since a while now.

 

The idea of an illusionless mesmer has been floating for a while, I think right around the time Chrono was first introduced, you don't need a PHD to figure out why. It is another rework, but at this point the class just doesn't function as is. Mesmer much like thief is all about sustain through active mitigation, we don't have fancy procs and aside from f4 we don't have any iframes. Now mind you, the recent changes also nerfed clone generation to where now you have to be very selective what you spend your resource on. Every1 and their mother can tell you it's less than ideal to f4 with 1 clone. Then you have 1 endurance bar to top it all off, increased CD on blink, reduced healing on everything (but that's everyone so I guess moot point). And what you get as an end result is, a gimped Thief in flashy purple with tons of butterflies.

 

Edit: You might be right, your suggestion is much easier to implement and we both know how the path of least resistance works.

[avey.4201]

> @"Avatar.3568" said:

> first: i play ranger not mesmer.

> second: mesmer are just food and a legit free kill in 2vs2 or conquest !!

> third: kitten what to buff but pls buff the class is dead !!!!! (listen to the players)

 

I play DH, Mesmer is fine, target them first will throw the round, have to target them second, and their condi is dangerous.

Against Ranger though, match is predetermined, better off leaving the match, or closing the game.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Virdo.1540" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Virdo.1540" you are telling much better players then you to learn how to play.

> > > > who are they to learn from if not you ? who can one of the best mesmers in the game learn from if not from you o king?

> > >

> > > thats why everyone is complaining they cant play anymore, right?

> > > Im not a teacher. And i , probably nobody, would wanna spend time to teach people like u something

> > >

> > > so stop whining

> >

> > you are cringe man, going around calling your betters to l2p, disgraceful.

>

> "Your betters", yknow, I was half ironic when I said Mesmer traits describe Mesmer players very well, but, talk about Superiority Complex.

 

it has nothing to do with any complexes, if you think he can call people like @"viquing.8254" to "l2p" you are simply disrespectful.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> "Your betters", yknow, I was half ironic when I said Mesmer traits describe Mesmer players very well, but, talk about Superiority Complex.

 

Is telling the truth superiority complex?

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > "Your betters", yknow, I was half ironic when I said Mesmer traits describe Mesmer players very well, but, talk about Superiority Complex.

>

> Is telling the truth superiority complex?

 

I have noticed that for some reason if you are good at something its REQUIRED from you to be humble about it. Otherwise people take you as an egomaniac.

But the reality is that 99% of players are not even capable of grasping the very basics of what it even means to be good.

And I consider ANYONE good that shows through the way they play that they actively think, adopt, and calculate risks.

Its never about how long you play your character, or how fast you react or how many fights you had with X class so you learned what to do.

A chimp can learn this shit if given time.

And in this game in particular almost everyone plays on autopilot. and when you go about insulting one of the only players that actually puts some though process into playing it just really gets on my nerves man.

[ArlAlt.1630]

By the badonkadong, I leave for 4 hours and this is already looking like we should prolly, just drop this thread.

[bravan.3876]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > "Your betters", yknow, I was half ironic when I said Mesmer traits describe Mesmer players very well, but, talk about Superiority Complex.

> >

> > Is telling the truth superiority complex?

>

> I have noticed that for some reason if you are good at something its REQUIRED from you to be humble about it. Otherwise people take you as an egomaniac.

> But the reality is that 99% of players are not even capable of grasping the very basics of what it even means to be good.

> And I consider ANYONE good that shows through the way they play that they actively think, adopt, and calculate risks.

> Its never about how long you play your character, or how fast you react or how many fights you had with X class so you learned what to do.

> A chimp can learn this kitten if given time.

> And in this game in particular almost everyone plays on autopilot. and when you go about insulting one of the only players that actually puts some though process into playing it just really gets on my nerves man.

 

I am a bit lost here, who told who to play better?

Nvm i think i got it, it is Fantasylife/Virdo vs Viquing

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

From a wvw prospective, condi mirage is still a pain to kill in melee but that's not coz of mirage, it's because 30% dmg nerf to power builds so in a way it's like full dire/trailblazer are nearly always on protection boon. Power mirage is kinda meh atm, dunno why people keep saying it's ok, or it's not bad...it really is, even so because I see more power chrono than mirage now lol and thats saying something.

[Xca.9721]

Mirage has enough evade frames from the 1 dodge, energy sigils and mirage mirrors, not to speak of being able to stomp/rezz while doing so. It is good that Mirage players can´t spam their Ambush skills that often anymore.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Xca.9721" said:

> Mirage has enough evade frames from the 1 dodge, energy sigils and mirage mirrors, not to speak of being able to stomp/rezz while doing so. It is good that Mirage players can´t spam their Ambush skills that often anymore.

 

lol

you heard him boys. dodge and energy sigils xd its all you need.

1 more nerf and necro will have more iframes while still having 15 times more effective HP :D

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Xca.9721" said:

> > Mirage has enough evade frames from the 1 dodge, energy sigils and mirage mirrors, not to speak of being able to stomp/rezz while doing so. It is good that Mirage players can´t spam their Ambush skills that often anymore.

>

> lol

> you heard him boys. dodge and energy sigils xd its all you need.

> 1 more nerf and necro will have more iframes while still having 15 times more effective HP :D

 

Let's just pretend all above is true, power mirage still lacks the dmg, core and chrono still gets the 2 dodges.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Xca.9721" said:

> > > Mirage has enough evade frames from the 1 dodge, energy sigils and mirage mirrors, not to speak of being able to stomp/rezz while doing so. It is good that Mirage players can´t spam their Ambush skills that often anymore.

> >

> > lol

> > you heard him boys. dodge and energy sigils xd its all you need.

> > 1 more nerf and necro will have more iframes while still having 15 times more effective HP :D

>

> Let's just pretend all above is true, power mirage still lacks the dmg, core and chrono still gets the 2 dodges.

 

I lied about the EHP. after quick math its only 7 times more effective HP. Please forgive me for my transgresions

[Zefirokai.8735]

 

the big problem is that there are very buffed classes. a mesmer has no chance at 1v1 against a thief who knows how to play, for example