bravan.3876 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > Free kill? If it is severely underpowered then at least one duoQ with mirage would not be able to win DuoQs with cancer builds and top players. > > > > > > > > What kind of logic is that? Ofc when players are 10000 times better than others they can make up stuff work. Just as low skilled noobs can win vs much better players only because of buildcarry. > > > > > > ...... They are also against top players. So they are not 10000 times better. Maybe slightly better, but cannot compensate if the builds are as you mentioned, very very weak. > > > > Barely, most times i see them vs clearly worse wannabe goods or simple nonames. Maybe they get q dodged a lot, no clue. And Sindrener does a lot with his Thief to make that comp work. But i am not even saying Condimirage is unplayable, why should it? Anet didn't fix the real issues at all. They just forced Mirages more into toxic retargeting mechanic and from an offensive passive dodge trait (passive because of the condi ambushes, not because of IH itself) to a mostly passive defensive dodge trait (EM), which is rly strong right now, because condis are stronger than power dmg atm. The change didn't add any skill ceiling to Mirage, they just deleted all potential skill ceiling Condimirage could get with reworked condi ambushes. > > > > I am just saying your logic doesn't make sense. Also even for Condimirage (what is still braindead spammy and passive) you barely see anyone else except Misha playing it successful. Maybe it could be few more when you give them a Sindrener at their side too but still it makes more sense and is a way easier life to play Ele, Necro, FB... most other classes,... than a Condimirage, not to mention Powermirage what is now even more only something for masochists. > > I mean, I am simply saying mirage is ok, and might not need a buff. Thats all I am trying to say. And you said it is not unplayable. > Regarding the logical part. If it is completely garbage, then no one can make it work. . I don't see why its flawed. Also, there was just a video on forum: power mirage & rev got into plat, and I think they are not those who consistently make to the finals of the MATs. I have no clue if those players even participate in Ats but that does not rly matter. When you look at the footage you can clearly see and it got mentioned more than once already that this Player was/is most likely the best/ for sure one of the best Powermesmers in the whole game. Means until now we have 2 ppl in EU can make Mirage work vs decent ppl, one Condimirage and one Powermirage. How about we nerf all other classes in a way only 2 ppl can play it? Did you try Mirage yourself? I did try Condimirage and just switched back to Necro, not because Condimirage is totally unplayable but because Necro and other classes are way more chill and (compared to Powermirage at least) easier to play (clearly easier to survive also compared to Condimirage). Not to mention Powermirage clearly is for masochists. Let me see some footage from you playing it at plat+, preferable Powermirage, to show how viable it is and then talk. That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. Overkill or not, as mentioned already the biggest problem with that change is that it dumbs down the whole mechanic instead adding skill ceiling, what is for sure a bad way of balancing, in particular when you do not even solve the balance issues of the one op playstyle (like Conidmirage is still passive and braindead dodgespam, now even more to not waste endurance reggen). There are better ways to balance Condimirage (without dumbing down the spec, without overnerfing skillful Powerbuilds, with adding skill ceiling to even Condimirage and make it finally less passive and for that solve the issues instead nerfing around them) and they got mentioned several times already, do the effort to read forum and you will find them. > @"Daishi.6027" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > Btw the EM change is probably what keeps Anet away from reverting that one dodge change, because with 2 dodges 2 condis removed with EM will be insanely broken. Sadly it seems Anet has no better idea what to do with that trait even though there were more than one suggestion made for a rework (incl from me). > > If this is true I find it morbidly disheartening that they can't just change it to 1 clear per evade.... Yes that would be the other way. If Mesmers will not complain, that only one condi each dodge is too weak for a gm trait... but Anet doesn't care about Dune Cloak being unused either though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toxic.3648 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 i wish i could  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Tempest.7584 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 @"Psycoprophet.8107", I'm sad to see you worked up about mes. You're usually kind of sympathetic to Mesmers since they share the same special place of misunderstanding and scorn among the community as thieves. No one likes to get bursted down, but the build you're taking about isn't new and is now at its weakest yet. It's also not the only "one-shot"/spike damage build running around. But it does seem more common lately because it's one of few remaining mes builds following the patch, and it maybe counters the new tanky meta. It's also widely known that thief is Mesmer's biggest counter. It's almost comical how helpless mes is against an equally skilled thief. Like might as well surrender. Anyway, sorry to hear you had a rough experience. But I don't think it was due to lack of counterplay. Please don't become a part of the community I mentioned above. Please. EDIT: Didn't see your last two posts. If you've been trolling all this time, it's kind of weird. If that's the case, disregard what I wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > Free kill? If it is severely underpowered then at least one duoQ with mirage would not be able to win DuoQs with cancer builds and top players. > > > > > > > > > > What kind of logic is that? Ofc when players are 10000 times better than others they can make up stuff work. Just as low skilled noobs can win vs much better players only because of buildcarry. > > > > > > > > ...... They are also against top players. So they are not 10000 times better. Maybe slightly better, but cannot compensate if the builds are as you mentioned, very very weak. > > > > > > Barely, most times i see them vs clearly worse wannabe goods or simple nonames. Maybe they get q dodged a lot, no clue. And Sindrener does a lot with his Thief to make that comp work. But i am not even saying Condimirage is unplayable, why should it? Anet didn't fix the real issues at all. They just forced Mirages more into toxic retargeting mechanic and from an offensive passive dodge trait (passive because of the condi ambushes, not because of IH itself) to a mostly passive defensive dodge trait (EM), which is rly strong right now, because condis are stronger than power dmg atm. The change didn't add any skill ceiling to Mirage, they just deleted all potential skill ceiling Condimirage could get with reworked condi ambushes. > > > > > > I am just saying your logic doesn't make sense. Also even for Condimirage (what is still braindead spammy and passive) you barely see anyone else except Misha playing it successful. Maybe it could be few more when you give them a Sindrener at their side too but still it makes more sense and is a way easier life to play Ele, Necro, FB... most other classes,... than a Condimirage, not to mention Powermirage what is now even more only something for masochists. > > > > I mean, I am simply saying mirage is ok, and might not need a buff. Thats all I am trying to say. And you said it is not unplayable. > > Regarding the logical part. If it is completely garbage, then no one can make it work. . I don't see why its flawed. Also, there was just a video on forum: power mirage & rev got into plat, and I think they are not those who consistently make to the finals of the MATs. > > I have no clue if those players even participate in Ats but that does not rly matter. When you look at the footage you can clearly see and it got mentioned more than once already that this Player was/is most likely the best/ for sure one of the best Powermesmers in the whole game. Means until now we have 2 ppl in EU can make Mirage work vs decent ppl, one Condimirage and one Powermirage. How about we nerf all other classes in a way only 2 ppl can play it? Did you try Mirage yourself? I did try Condimirage and just switched back to Necro, not because Condimirage is totally unplayable but because Necro and other classes are way more chill and (compared to Powermirage at least) easier to play (clearly easier to survive also compared to Condimirage). Not to mention Powermirage clearly is for masochists. Let me see some footage from you playing it at plat+, preferable Powermirage, to show how viable it is and then talk. > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > Overkill or not, as mentioned already the biggest problem with that change is that it dumbs down the whole mechanic instead adding skill ceiling, what is for sure a bad way of balancing, in particular when you do not even solve the balance issues of the one op playstyle (like Conidmirage is still passive and braindead dodgespam, now even more to not waste endurance reggen). > > There are better ways to balance Condimirage (without dumbing down the spec, without overnerfing skillful Powerbuilds, with adding skill ceiling to even Condimirage and make it finally less passive and for that solve the issues instead nerfing around them) and they got mentioned several times already, do the effort to read forum and you will find them. Ok, think of the current meta. Besides the 3-4 busted builds, can you find other classes with more than 2 players that also can reach the top and win against top players with busted builds? And, footage from me is also biased, since I do not main mirage. I played it before prior to nerf, and I think it is very easy to play. At least again melee classes (not thief). But again. Similarly, maybe because you are really really bad at mirage or pvp in general so you just switch back to Necro. So your statement is meaningless. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient.... Your own arguments suffers against your other arguments mate. Try to be consistent. I don't understand. 1) This thread is title "Mesmer needs a buff". 2) You said it is not too bad. 3) You said the way Anet balanced is not correct and hence reduce the ceiling. Balance != Buff right? So, I really don't understand what are you arguing here. It gives the impression that you also want to buff mirage. > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. So you know him but way more effort in this game even there is no other incentives to do so (no ESL etc...) Similarly, how do you know others did not put a lot of effort in the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > Free kill? If it is severely underpowered then at least one duoQ with mirage would not be able to win DuoQs with cancer builds and top players. > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of logic is that? Ofc when players are 10000 times better than others they can make up stuff work. Just as low skilled noobs can win vs much better players only because of buildcarry. > > > > > > > > > > ...... They are also against top players. So they are not 10000 times better. Maybe slightly better, but cannot compensate if the builds are as you mentioned, very very weak. > > > > > > > > Barely, most times i see them vs clearly worse wannabe goods or simple nonames. Maybe they get q dodged a lot, no clue. And Sindrener does a lot with his Thief to make that comp work. But i am not even saying Condimirage is unplayable, why should it? Anet didn't fix the real issues at all. They just forced Mirages more into toxic retargeting mechanic and from an offensive passive dodge trait (passive because of the condi ambushes, not because of IH itself) to a mostly passive defensive dodge trait (EM), which is rly strong right now, because condis are stronger than power dmg atm. The change didn't add any skill ceiling to Mirage, they just deleted all potential skill ceiling Condimirage could get with reworked condi ambushes. > > > > > > > > I am just saying your logic doesn't make sense. Also even for Condimirage (what is still braindead spammy and passive) you barely see anyone else except Misha playing it successful. Maybe it could be few more when you give them a Sindrener at their side too but still it makes more sense and is a way easier life to play Ele, Necro, FB... most other classes,... than a Condimirage, not to mention Powermirage what is now even more only something for masochists. > > > > > > I mean, I am simply saying mirage is ok, and might not need a buff. Thats all I am trying to say. And you said it is not unplayable. > > > Regarding the logical part. If it is completely garbage, then no one can make it work. . I don't see why its flawed. Also, there was just a video on forum: power mirage & rev got into plat, and I think they are not those who consistently make to the finals of the MATs. > > > > I have no clue if those players even participate in Ats but that does not rly matter. When you look at the footage you can clearly see and it got mentioned more than once already that this Player was/is most likely the best/ for sure one of the best Powermesmers in the whole game. Means until now we have 2 ppl in EU can make Mirage work vs decent ppl, one Condimirage and one Powermirage. How about we nerf all other classes in a way only 2 ppl can play it? Did you try Mirage yourself? I did try Condimirage and just switched back to Necro, not because Condimirage is totally unplayable but because Necro and other classes are way more chill and (compared to Powermirage at least) easier to play (clearly easier to survive also compared to Condimirage). Not to mention Powermirage clearly is for masochists. Let me see some footage from you playing it at plat+, preferable Powermirage, to show how viable it is and then talk. > > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > > Overkill or not, as mentioned already the biggest problem with that change is that it dumbs down the whole mechanic instead adding skill ceiling, what is for sure a bad way of balancing, in particular when you do not even solve the balance issues of the one op playstyle (like Conidmirage is still passive and braindead dodgespam, now even more to not waste endurance reggen). > > > > There are better ways to balance Condimirage (without dumbing down the spec, without overnerfing skillful Powerbuilds, with adding skill ceiling to even Condimirage and make it finally less passive and for that solve the issues instead nerfing around them) and they got mentioned several times already, do the effort to read forum and you will find them. > > > Ok, think of the current meta. Besides the 3-4 busted builds, can you find other classes with more than 2 players that also can reach the top and win against top players with busted builds? > And, footage from me is also biased, since I do not main mirage. I played it before prior to nerf, and I think it is very easy to play. At least again melee classes (not thief). But again. Similarly, maybe because you are really really bad at mirage or pvp in general so you just switch back to Necro. So your statement is meaningless. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient.... Your own arguments suffers against your other arguments mate. Try to be consistent. > > I don't understand. 1) This thread is title "Mesmer needs a buff". 2) You said it is not too bad. 3) You said the way Anet balanced is not correct and hence reduce the ceiling. Balance != Buff right? So, I really don't understand what are you arguing here. It gives the impression that you also want to buff mirage. > > > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > So you know him but way more effort in this game even there is no other incentives to do so (no ESL etc...) Similarly, how do you know others did not put a lot of effort in the game? Footage of you is not biased, you also can get enough time to get into the class, no problem, you even played Mirage already as you say, means you don't even need that long. Coming on forum and claiming opinions without explaining anything just claiming is easy. You even call it easy to play, even better, should be easy for you to prove that then. Give me some easy Powermirage footage then please. I was not replying to the thread name i was replying to you saying Mirage is ok and your only prove of that is, that 2 ppl can make it work in plat+. The same players could also just switch on any other class and get the same result with way less effort and skill investment. So that is not proving anything. Mirage is not "ok" with only one dodge. Powermirage is pretty butchered and that for the sake of nerfing Condimirage what didn't even solve the issues on Condimirage. I gave enough suggestions of how to nerf Condimirage in other ways instead the one dodge change. I will not repead them for you the 1000. time because you are unwilling to do the effort to inform yourself before you claim stuff and accuse me of stuff clearly not true, what you would know when closely reading my stuff. > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. That is really common sense that Thief hardcounters Mesmer, in particular power. The only power build has a little bit better chance vs Thieves was the old core PU and that also only when getting a oneshot out of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 @"UNOwen.7132" power mirage doesnt counter thief, in fact its fucked over even harder then condi mirage. power mirage locks you down with CC and burst you, plasma gives you stab and aegis, meaning that after you use it. you have godmode against mesmer. Combine it with 2-3 ways to remove hard CC means that thief will never be burst by mesmer. Add in constant weakness and less sustain and here you go. unwinnable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > Free kill? If it is severely underpowered then at least one duoQ with mirage would not be able to win DuoQs with cancer builds and top players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of logic is that? Ofc when players are 10000 times better than others they can make up stuff work. Just as low skilled noobs can win vs much better players only because of buildcarry. > > > > > > > > > > > > ...... They are also against top players. So they are not 10000 times better. Maybe slightly better, but cannot compensate if the builds are as you mentioned, very very weak. > > > > > > > > > > Barely, most times i see them vs clearly worse wannabe goods or simple nonames. Maybe they get q dodged a lot, no clue. And Sindrener does a lot with his Thief to make that comp work. But i am not even saying Condimirage is unplayable, why should it? Anet didn't fix the real issues at all. They just forced Mirages more into toxic retargeting mechanic and from an offensive passive dodge trait (passive because of the condi ambushes, not because of IH itself) to a mostly passive defensive dodge trait (EM), which is rly strong right now, because condis are stronger than power dmg atm. The change didn't add any skill ceiling to Mirage, they just deleted all potential skill ceiling Condimirage could get with reworked condi ambushes. > > > > > > > > > > I am just saying your logic doesn't make sense. Also even for Condimirage (what is still braindead spammy and passive) you barely see anyone else except Misha playing it successful. Maybe it could be few more when you give them a Sindrener at their side too but still it makes more sense and is a way easier life to play Ele, Necro, FB... most other classes,... than a Condimirage, not to mention Powermirage what is now even more only something for masochists. > > > > > > > > I mean, I am simply saying mirage is ok, and might not need a buff. Thats all I am trying to say. And you said it is not unplayable. > > > > Regarding the logical part. If it is completely garbage, then no one can make it work. . I don't see why its flawed. Also, there was just a video on forum: power mirage & rev got into plat, and I think they are not those who consistently make to the finals of the MATs. > > > > > > I have no clue if those players even participate in Ats but that does not rly matter. When you look at the footage you can clearly see and it got mentioned more than once already that this Player was/is most likely the best/ for sure one of the best Powermesmers in the whole game. Means until now we have 2 ppl in EU can make Mirage work vs decent ppl, one Condimirage and one Powermirage. How about we nerf all other classes in a way only 2 ppl can play it? Did you try Mirage yourself? I did try Condimirage and just switched back to Necro, not because Condimirage is totally unplayable but because Necro and other classes are way more chill and (compared to Powermirage at least) easier to play (clearly easier to survive also compared to Condimirage). Not to mention Powermirage clearly is for masochists. Let me see some footage from you playing it at plat+, preferable Powermirage, to show how viable it is and then talk. > > > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > > > Overkill or not, as mentioned already the biggest problem with that change is that it dumbs down the whole mechanic instead adding skill ceiling, what is for sure a bad way of balancing, in particular when you do not even solve the balance issues of the one op playstyle (like Conidmirage is still passive and braindead dodgespam, now even more to not waste endurance reggen). > > > > > > There are better ways to balance Condimirage (without dumbing down the spec, without overnerfing skillful Powerbuilds, with adding skill ceiling to even Condimirage and make it finally less passive and for that solve the issues instead nerfing around them) and they got mentioned several times already, do the effort to read forum and you will find them. > > > > > > Ok, think of the current meta. Besides the 3-4 busted builds, can you find other classes with more than 2 players that also can reach the top and win against top players with busted builds? > > And, footage from me is also biased, since I do not main mirage. I played it before prior to nerf, and I think it is very easy to play. At least again melee classes (not thief). But again. Similarly, maybe because you are really really bad at mirage or pvp in general so you just switch back to Necro. So your statement is meaningless. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient.... Your own arguments suffers against your other arguments mate. Try to be consistent. > > > > I don't understand. 1) This thread is title "Mesmer needs a buff". 2) You said it is not too bad. 3) You said the way Anet balanced is not correct and hence reduce the ceiling. Balance != Buff right? So, I really don't understand what are you arguing here. It gives the impression that you also want to buff mirage. > > > > > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > > So you know him but way more effort in this game even there is no other incentives to do so (no ESL etc...) Similarly, how do you know others did not put a lot of effort in the game? > > Footage of you is not biased, you also can get enough time to get into the class, no problem, you even played Mirage already as you say, means you don't even need that long. Coming on forum and claiming opinions without explaining anything just claiming is easy. You even call it easy to play, even better, should be easy for you to prove that then. Give me some easy Powermirage footage then please. > I was not replying to the thread name i was replying to you saying Mirage is ok and your only prove of that is, that 2 ppl can make it work in plat+. The same players could also just switch on any other class and get the same result with way less effort and skill investment. So that is not proving anything. Mirage is not "ok" with only one dodge. Powermirage is pretty butchered and that for the sake of nerfing Condimirage what didn't even solve the issues on Condimirage. I gave enough suggestions of how to nerf Condimirage in other ways instead the one dodge change. I will not repead them for you the 1000. time because you are unwilling to do the effort to inform yourself before you claim stuff and accuse me of stuff clearly not true, what you would know when closely reading my stuff. Coming on forum and claiming opinions without explaining anything just claiming is easy. Same applies to you mate. How do you know there are only 2 mirages? and how do you know others invest less efforts? Without knowing the answers, you make those claims. Have you put the effort you inform yourself about your two claims? And you don't even main mirage. As you mentioned, you tried it a few times and then switch back to Necro, then how on earth your suggestions are useful? And in the last, the logic that: if one class is truly trash in every aspect, then no one can make it work, is legit. So I did not make rootless claims. If I have data, I would make stronger claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > Free kill? If it is severely underpowered then at least one duoQ with mirage would not be able to win DuoQs with cancer builds and top players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of logic is that? Ofc when players are 10000 times better than others they can make up stuff work. Just as low skilled noobs can win vs much better players only because of buildcarry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...... They are also against top players. So they are not 10000 times better. Maybe slightly better, but cannot compensate if the builds are as you mentioned, very very weak. > > > > > > > > > > > > Barely, most times i see them vs clearly worse wannabe goods or simple nonames. Maybe they get q dodged a lot, no clue. And Sindrener does a lot with his Thief to make that comp work. But i am not even saying Condimirage is unplayable, why should it? Anet didn't fix the real issues at all. They just forced Mirages more into toxic retargeting mechanic and from an offensive passive dodge trait (passive because of the condi ambushes, not because of IH itself) to a mostly passive defensive dodge trait (EM), which is rly strong right now, because condis are stronger than power dmg atm. The change didn't add any skill ceiling to Mirage, they just deleted all potential skill ceiling Condimirage could get with reworked condi ambushes. > > > > > > > > > > > > I am just saying your logic doesn't make sense. Also even for Condimirage (what is still braindead spammy and passive) you barely see anyone else except Misha playing it successful. Maybe it could be few more when you give them a Sindrener at their side too but still it makes more sense and is a way easier life to play Ele, Necro, FB... most other classes,... than a Condimirage, not to mention Powermirage what is now even more only something for masochists. > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I am simply saying mirage is ok, and might not need a buff. Thats all I am trying to say. And you said it is not unplayable. > > > > > Regarding the logical part. If it is completely garbage, then no one can make it work. . I don't see why its flawed. Also, there was just a video on forum: power mirage & rev got into plat, and I think they are not those who consistently make to the finals of the MATs. > > > > > > > > I have no clue if those players even participate in Ats but that does not rly matter. When you look at the footage you can clearly see and it got mentioned more than once already that this Player was/is most likely the best/ for sure one of the best Powermesmers in the whole game. Means until now we have 2 ppl in EU can make Mirage work vs decent ppl, one Condimirage and one Powermirage. How about we nerf all other classes in a way only 2 ppl can play it? Did you try Mirage yourself? I did try Condimirage and just switched back to Necro, not because Condimirage is totally unplayable but because Necro and other classes are way more chill and (compared to Powermirage at least) easier to play (clearly easier to survive also compared to Condimirage). Not to mention Powermirage clearly is for masochists. Let me see some footage from you playing it at plat+, preferable Powermirage, to show how viable it is and then talk. > > > > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > > > > Overkill or not, as mentioned already the biggest problem with that change is that it dumbs down the whole mechanic instead adding skill ceiling, what is for sure a bad way of balancing, in particular when you do not even solve the balance issues of the one op playstyle (like Conidmirage is still passive and braindead dodgespam, now even more to not waste endurance reggen). > > > > > > > > There are better ways to balance Condimirage (without dumbing down the spec, without overnerfing skillful Powerbuilds, with adding skill ceiling to even Condimirage and make it finally less passive and for that solve the issues instead nerfing around them) and they got mentioned several times already, do the effort to read forum and you will find them. > > > > > > > > > Ok, think of the current meta. Besides the 3-4 busted builds, can you find other classes with more than 2 players that also can reach the top and win against top players with busted builds? > > > And, footage from me is also biased, since I do not main mirage. I played it before prior to nerf, and I think it is very easy to play. At least again melee classes (not thief). But again. Similarly, maybe because you are really really bad at mirage or pvp in general so you just switch back to Necro. So your statement is meaningless. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient.... Your own arguments suffers against your other arguments mate. Try to be consistent. > > > > > > I don't understand. 1) This thread is title "Mesmer needs a buff". 2) You said it is not too bad. 3) You said the way Anet balanced is not correct and hence reduce the ceiling. Balance != Buff right? So, I really don't understand what are you arguing here. It gives the impression that you also want to buff mirage. > > > > > > > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > > > So you know him but way more effort in this game even there is no other incentives to do so (no ESL etc...) Similarly, how do you know others did not put a lot of effort in the game? > > > > Footage of you is not biased, you also can get enough time to get into the class, no problem, you even played Mirage already as you say, means you don't even need that long. Coming on forum and claiming opinions without explaining anything just claiming is easy. You even call it easy to play, even better, should be easy for you to prove that then. Give me some easy Powermirage footage then please. > > I was not replying to the thread name i was replying to you saying Mirage is ok and your only prove of that is, that 2 ppl can make it work in plat+. The same players could also just switch on any other class and get the same result with way less effort and skill investment. So that is not proving anything. Mirage is not "ok" with only one dodge. Powermirage is pretty butchered and that for the sake of nerfing Condimirage what didn't even solve the issues on Condimirage. I gave enough suggestions of how to nerf Condimirage in other ways instead the one dodge change. I will not repead them for you the 1000. time because you are unwilling to do the effort to inform yourself before you claim stuff and accuse me of stuff clearly not true, what you would know when closely reading my stuff. > > > Coming on forum and claiming opinions without explaining anything just claiming is easy. Same applies to you mate. How do you know there are only 2 mirages? and how do you know others invest less efforts? Without knowing the answers, you make those claims. Have you put the effort you inform yourself about your two claims? > > And you don't even main mirage. As you mentioned, you tried it a few times and then switch back to Necro, then how on earth your suggestions are useful? > > And in the last, the logic that: if one class is truly trash in every aspect, then no one can make it work, is legit. So I did not make rootless claims. If I have data, I would make stronger claims. > I am not talking about how many effort ppl invest in the game i talk about how many effort it needs to play certain classes rewarding and competitive and how much skill that needs compared to others. That is easy to do by playing the game and all classes, like i do as a multiclass player. I currently miss Ranger that is why i do not rly comment on that despite the obvious that npcs should not have high dmg on passive skills. And no i do not just claim, i invest a lot of time to explain, based on gameknowledge and facts and logic, why i say what i say. But it seems you just want to play a semantic game to distract from the fact that you cannot prove what you claim, while you don't even have logic behind you to back you up. Again, you said you played Mirage, you say it is easy (again no logic, no prove, just a claim means nothing), so where is the problem to show some footage playing that easy spec vs decent ppl? I even give you some time to get back into the class. You don't need to upload tomorrow or in one week. Ez thing for you to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > @"UNOwen.7132" power mirage doesnt counter thief, in fact its kitten over even harder then condi mirage. > power mirage locks you down with CC and burst you, plasma gives you stab and aegis, meaning that after you use it. you have godmode against mesmer. > Combine it with 2-3 ways to remove hard CC means that thief will never be burst by mesmer. > Add in constant weakness and less sustain and here you go. unwinnable. I never said it counters thief, I said its not a good matchup. Its unfavoured, but winnable. I also said Power Mesmer, not neccessarily Mirage. Also, the stab lasts for 2 seconds and is one stack, you can break it with any cheap daze. Its not like Resistance where your only hope of getting rid of it is boon rip, which is not going to happen as resistance is not very high in the boon rip priority. Besides, no, Mesmer doesnt need CC to burst the thief, thieves are particularly squishy, just stealth up, Mirror Blade + Mind Wrack, and theyre dead. Aegis also does nothing in that scenario. And ontop of that, Consume Plasma has a 1 second cast time. Against condi thats fine, Condi generally doesnt really have any interruption. Against power? Power has plenty of interruption, hell some builds specialise in it, youll never get to finish Consume Plasma. Again, same thing as above, CC is not needed vs thief, but Ill briefly interject and point out that the average thief build only has 1 way of removing hard CC. Some have 2. *None* have 3. And 1-2 is the standard number of stunbreaks, every class has them, if thief would counter power Mesmer, *every* class would, but clearly thats not the case. You just wait for the weakness to run out before bursting, its duration is short, so you can even just wait in stealth. And, I dont know what you mean by "less sustain". Are you implying Power Mesmer has less sustain than thief? Because they dont. They both only really have their heal skill (thief has Escapists Fortitude, Mesmer has Regeneration, both heal so minimally they dont really matter though Regen is *slightly* higher and more consistent), and Mesmers heal skill heals more than Thieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > Free kill? If it is severely underpowered then at least one duoQ with mirage would not be able to win DuoQs with cancer builds and top players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of logic is that? Ofc when players are 10000 times better than others they can make up stuff work. Just as low skilled noobs can win vs much better players only because of buildcarry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...... They are also against top players. So they are not 10000 times better. Maybe slightly better, but cannot compensate if the builds are as you mentioned, very very weak. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barely, most times i see them vs clearly worse wannabe goods or simple nonames. Maybe they get q dodged a lot, no clue. And Sindrener does a lot with his Thief to make that comp work. But i am not even saying Condimirage is unplayable, why should it? Anet didn't fix the real issues at all. They just forced Mirages more into toxic retargeting mechanic and from an offensive passive dodge trait (passive because of the condi ambushes, not because of IH itself) to a mostly passive defensive dodge trait (EM), which is rly strong right now, because condis are stronger than power dmg atm. The change didn't add any skill ceiling to Mirage, they just deleted all potential skill ceiling Condimirage could get with reworked condi ambushes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am just saying your logic doesn't make sense. Also even for Condimirage (what is still braindead spammy and passive) you barely see anyone else except Misha playing it successful. Maybe it could be few more when you give them a Sindrener at their side too but still it makes more sense and is a way easier life to play Ele, Necro, FB... most other classes,... than a Condimirage, not to mention Powermirage what is now even more only something for masochists. > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I am simply saying mirage is ok, and might not need a buff. Thats all I am trying to say. And you said it is not unplayable. > > > > > > Regarding the logical part. If it is completely garbage, then no one can make it work. . I don't see why its flawed. Also, there was just a video on forum: power mirage & rev got into plat, and I think they are not those who consistently make to the finals of the MATs. > > > > > > > > > > I have no clue if those players even participate in Ats but that does not rly matter. When you look at the footage you can clearly see and it got mentioned more than once already that this Player was/is most likely the best/ for sure one of the best Powermesmers in the whole game. Means until now we have 2 ppl in EU can make Mirage work vs decent ppl, one Condimirage and one Powermirage. How about we nerf all other classes in a way only 2 ppl can play it? Did you try Mirage yourself? I did try Condimirage and just switched back to Necro, not because Condimirage is totally unplayable but because Necro and other classes are way more chill and (compared to Powermirage at least) easier to play (clearly easier to survive also compared to Condimirage). Not to mention Powermirage clearly is for masochists. Let me see some footage from you playing it at plat+, preferable Powermirage, to show how viable it is and then talk. > > > > > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > > > > > Overkill or not, as mentioned already the biggest problem with that change is that it dumbs down the whole mechanic instead adding skill ceiling, what is for sure a bad way of balancing, in particular when you do not even solve the balance issues of the one op playstyle (like Conidmirage is still passive and braindead dodgespam, now even more to not waste endurance reggen). > > > > > > > > > > There are better ways to balance Condimirage (without dumbing down the spec, without overnerfing skillful Powerbuilds, with adding skill ceiling to even Condimirage and make it finally less passive and for that solve the issues instead nerfing around them) and they got mentioned several times already, do the effort to read forum and you will find them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, think of the current meta. Besides the 3-4 busted builds, can you find other classes with more than 2 players that also can reach the top and win against top players with busted builds? > > > > And, footage from me is also biased, since I do not main mirage. I played it before prior to nerf, and I think it is very easy to play. At least again melee classes (not thief). But again. Similarly, maybe because you are really really bad at mirage or pvp in general so you just switch back to Necro. So your statement is meaningless. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient.... Your own arguments suffers against your other arguments mate. Try to be consistent. > > > > > > > > I don't understand. 1) This thread is title "Mesmer needs a buff". 2) You said it is not too bad. 3) You said the way Anet balanced is not correct and hence reduce the ceiling. Balance != Buff right? So, I really don't understand what are you arguing here. It gives the impression that you also want to buff mirage. > > > > > > > > > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > > > > So you know him but way more effort in this game even there is no other incentives to do so (no ESL etc...) Similarly, how do you know others did not put a lot of effort in the game? > > > > > > Footage of you is not biased, you also can get enough time to get into the class, no problem, you even played Mirage already as you say, means you don't even need that long. Coming on forum and claiming opinions without explaining anything just claiming is easy. You even call it easy to play, even better, should be easy for you to prove that then. Give me some easy Powermirage footage then please. > > > I was not replying to the thread name i was replying to you saying Mirage is ok and your only prove of that is, that 2 ppl can make it work in plat+. The same players could also just switch on any other class and get the same result with way less effort and skill investment. So that is not proving anything. Mirage is not "ok" with only one dodge. Powermirage is pretty butchered and that for the sake of nerfing Condimirage what didn't even solve the issues on Condimirage. I gave enough suggestions of how to nerf Condimirage in other ways instead the one dodge change. I will not repead them for you the 1000. time because you are unwilling to do the effort to inform yourself before you claim stuff and accuse me of stuff clearly not true, what you would know when closely reading my stuff. > > > > > > Coming on forum and claiming opinions without explaining anything just claiming is easy. Same applies to you mate. How do you know there are only 2 mirages? and how do you know others invest less efforts? Without knowing the answers, you make those claims. Have you put the effort you inform yourself about your two claims? > > > > And you don't even main mirage. As you mentioned, you tried it a few times and then switch back to Necro, then how on earth your suggestions are useful? > > > > And in the last, the logic that: if one class is truly trash in every aspect, then no one can make it work, is legit. So I did not make rootless claims. If I have data, I would make stronger claims. > > > > I am not talking about how many effort ppl invest in the game i talk about how many effort it needs to play certain classes rewarding and competitive and how much skill that needs compared to others. That is easy to do by playing the game and all classes, like i do as a multiclass player. I currently miss Ranger that is why i do not rly comment on that despite the obvious that npcs should not have high dmg on passive skills. And no i do not just claim, i invest a lot of time to explain, based on gameknowledge and facts and logic, why i say what i say. But it seems you just want to play an semantic game to distract from the fact that you cannot prove what you claim, while you don't even have logic behind you to back you up. Again, you said you played Mirage, you say it is easy (again no logic, no prove, just a claim means nothing), so where is the problem to show some footage playing that easy spec vs decent ppl? I even give you some time to get back into the class. You don't need to upload tomorrow or in one week. Ez thing for you to do. > I am not talking about how many effort ppl invest in the game i talk about how many effort it needs to play certain classes rewarding and competitive and how much skill that needs compared to others. How do you know that? Proof? Or this is based on logic? I don't see the logical point here tho. >Again, you said you played Mirage, you say it is easy (again no logic, no prove, just a claim means nothing) yes I said I once tried mirage, even before the previous nerf. Its perfectly fine that you do not believe me but that not relevant... The discussion here is whether the current state of mirage needs a buff. And I argue because of the logic I mentioned... I did not say that I tried the CURRENT mirage and its stupidly easy to play...I Did not say that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Free kill? If it is severely underpowered then at least one duoQ with mirage would not be able to win DuoQs with cancer builds and top players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of logic is that? Ofc when players are 10000 times better than others they can make up stuff work. Just as low skilled noobs can win vs much better players only because of buildcarry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...... They are also against top players. So they are not 10000 times better. Maybe slightly better, but cannot compensate if the builds are as you mentioned, very very weak. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barely, most times i see them vs clearly worse wannabe goods or simple nonames. Maybe they get q dodged a lot, no clue. And Sindrener does a lot with his Thief to make that comp work. But i am not even saying Condimirage is unplayable, why should it? Anet didn't fix the real issues at all. They just forced Mirages more into toxic retargeting mechanic and from an offensive passive dodge trait (passive because of the condi ambushes, not because of IH itself) to a mostly passive defensive dodge trait (EM), which is rly strong right now, because condis are stronger than power dmg atm. The change didn't add any skill ceiling to Mirage, they just deleted all potential skill ceiling Condimirage could get with reworked condi ambushes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am just saying your logic doesn't make sense. Also even for Condimirage (what is still braindead spammy and passive) you barely see anyone else except Misha playing it successful. Maybe it could be few more when you give them a Sindrener at their side too but still it makes more sense and is a way easier life to play Ele, Necro, FB... most other classes,... than a Condimirage, not to mention Powermirage what is now even more only something for masochists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I am simply saying mirage is ok, and might not need a buff. Thats all I am trying to say. And you said it is not unplayable. > > > > > > > Regarding the logical part. If it is completely garbage, then no one can make it work. . I don't see why its flawed. Also, there was just a video on forum: power mirage & rev got into plat, and I think they are not those who consistently make to the finals of the MATs. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no clue if those players even participate in Ats but that does not rly matter. When you look at the footage you can clearly see and it got mentioned more than once already that this Player was/is most likely the best/ for sure one of the best Powermesmers in the whole game. Means until now we have 2 ppl in EU can make Mirage work vs decent ppl, one Condimirage and one Powermirage. How about we nerf all other classes in a way only 2 ppl can play it? Did you try Mirage yourself? I did try Condimirage and just switched back to Necro, not because Condimirage is totally unplayable but because Necro and other classes are way more chill and (compared to Powermirage at least) easier to play (clearly easier to survive also compared to Condimirage). Not to mention Powermirage clearly is for masochists. Let me see some footage from you playing it at plat+, preferable Powermirage, to show how viable it is and then talk. > > > > > > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > > > > > > Overkill or not, as mentioned already the biggest problem with that change is that it dumbs down the whole mechanic instead adding skill ceiling, what is for sure a bad way of balancing, in particular when you do not even solve the balance issues of the one op playstyle (like Conidmirage is still passive and braindead dodgespam, now even more to not waste endurance reggen). > > > > > > > > > > > > There are better ways to balance Condimirage (without dumbing down the spec, without overnerfing skillful Powerbuilds, with adding skill ceiling to even Condimirage and make it finally less passive and for that solve the issues instead nerfing around them) and they got mentioned several times already, do the effort to read forum and you will find them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, think of the current meta. Besides the 3-4 busted builds, can you find other classes with more than 2 players that also can reach the top and win against top players with busted builds? > > > > > And, footage from me is also biased, since I do not main mirage. I played it before prior to nerf, and I think it is very easy to play. At least again melee classes (not thief). But again. Similarly, maybe because you are really really bad at mirage or pvp in general so you just switch back to Necro. So your statement is meaningless. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient.... Your own arguments suffers against your other arguments mate. Try to be consistent. > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand. 1) This thread is title "Mesmer needs a buff". 2) You said it is not too bad. 3) You said the way Anet balanced is not correct and hence reduce the ceiling. Balance != Buff right? So, I really don't understand what are you arguing here. It gives the impression that you also want to buff mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > > > > > So you know him but way more effort in this game even there is no other incentives to do so (no ESL etc...) Similarly, how do you know others did not put a lot of effort in the game? > > > > > > > > Footage of you is not biased, you also can get enough time to get into the class, no problem, you even played Mirage already as you say, means you don't even need that long. Coming on forum and claiming opinions without explaining anything just claiming is easy. You even call it easy to play, even better, should be easy for you to prove that then. Give me some easy Powermirage footage then please. > > > > I was not replying to the thread name i was replying to you saying Mirage is ok and your only prove of that is, that 2 ppl can make it work in plat+. The same players could also just switch on any other class and get the same result with way less effort and skill investment. So that is not proving anything. Mirage is not "ok" with only one dodge. Powermirage is pretty butchered and that for the sake of nerfing Condimirage what didn't even solve the issues on Condimirage. I gave enough suggestions of how to nerf Condimirage in other ways instead the one dodge change. I will not repead them for you the 1000. time because you are unwilling to do the effort to inform yourself before you claim stuff and accuse me of stuff clearly not true, what you would know when closely reading my stuff. > > > > > > > > > Coming on forum and claiming opinions without explaining anything just claiming is easy. Same applies to you mate. How do you know there are only 2 mirages? and how do you know others invest less efforts? Without knowing the answers, you make those claims. Have you put the effort you inform yourself about your two claims? > > > > > > And you don't even main mirage. As you mentioned, you tried it a few times and then switch back to Necro, then how on earth your suggestions are useful? > > > > > > And in the last, the logic that: if one class is truly trash in every aspect, then no one can make it work, is legit. So I did not make rootless claims. If I have data, I would make stronger claims. > > > > > > > I am not talking about how many effort ppl invest in the game i talk about how many effort it needs to play certain classes rewarding and competitive and how much skill that needs compared to others. That is easy to do by playing the game and all classes, like i do as a multiclass player. I currently miss Ranger that is why i do not rly comment on that despite the obvious that npcs should not have high dmg on passive skills. And no i do not just claim, i invest a lot of time to explain, based on gameknowledge and facts and logic, why i say what i say. But it seems you just want to play an semantic game to distract from the fact that you cannot prove what you claim, while you don't even have logic behind you to back you up. Again, you said you played Mirage, you say it is easy (again no logic, no prove, just a claim means nothing), so where is the problem to show some footage playing that easy spec vs decent ppl? I even give you some time to get back into the class. You don't need to upload tomorrow or in one week. Ez thing for you to do. > > > > I am not talking about how many effort ppl invest in the game i talk about how many effort it needs to play certain classes rewarding and competitive and how much skill that needs compared to others. > How do you know that? Proof? Or this is based on logic? I don't see the logical point here tho. > > >Again, you said you played Mirage, you say it is easy (again no logic, no prove, just a claim means nothing) > yes I said I once tried mirage, even before the previous nerf. Its perfectly fine that you do not believe me but that not relevant... > The discussion here is whether the current state of mirage needs a buff. And I argue because of the logic I mentioned... I did not say that I tried the CURRENT mirage and its stupidly easy to play...I Did not say that.. > Again a lot of words for saying nothing, senseless to talk to ppl like you. Gosh i am done. Rain is dry because you never got wet when staying inside the house, logic yes! Me agree to you just to have my peace here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > That is really common sense that Thief hardcounters Mesmer, in particular power. The only power build has a little bit better chance vs Thieves was the old core PU and that also only when getting a oneshot out of nowhere. Getting a oneshot out of nowhere *is* how power Mesmer works. Thats the whole idea of the build. And against thief its particularly easy, theyre really squishy, so just mirror blade + Mind Wrack + Power Spike is a full oneshot that they cant react to. But even besides that, Mesmer still has an advantage, their damage is much higher, their sustain slightly higher, and their lockdown better. And hell, they are also largely immune to blinds given that their attacks are mostly multihits and they have several instant-cast ones, so even stuff like Smokescreen is not particularly useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crozame.4098 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Crozame.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Free kill? If it is severely underpowered then at least one duoQ with mirage would not be able to win DuoQs with cancer builds and top players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What kind of logic is that? Ofc when players are 10000 times better than others they can make up stuff work. Just as low skilled noobs can win vs much better players only because of buildcarry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...... They are also against top players. So they are not 10000 times better. Maybe slightly better, but cannot compensate if the builds are as you mentioned, very very weak. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Barely, most times i see them vs clearly worse wannabe goods or simple nonames. Maybe they get q dodged a lot, no clue. And Sindrener does a lot with his Thief to make that comp work. But i am not even saying Condimirage is unplayable, why should it? Anet didn't fix the real issues at all. They just forced Mirages more into toxic retargeting mechanic and from an offensive passive dodge trait (passive because of the condi ambushes, not because of IH itself) to a mostly passive defensive dodge trait (EM), which is rly strong right now, because condis are stronger than power dmg atm. The change didn't add any skill ceiling to Mirage, they just deleted all potential skill ceiling Condimirage could get with reworked condi ambushes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am just saying your logic doesn't make sense. Also even for Condimirage (what is still braindead spammy and passive) you barely see anyone else except Misha playing it successful. Maybe it could be few more when you give them a Sindrener at their side too but still it makes more sense and is a way easier life to play Ele, Necro, FB... most other classes,... than a Condimirage, not to mention Powermirage what is now even more only something for masochists. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, I am simply saying mirage is ok, and might not need a buff. Thats all I am trying to say. And you said it is not unplayable. > > > > > > > > Regarding the logical part. If it is completely garbage, then no one can make it work. . I don't see why its flawed. Also, there was just a video on forum: power mirage & rev got into plat, and I think they are not those who consistently make to the finals of the MATs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no clue if those players even participate in Ats but that does not rly matter. When you look at the footage you can clearly see and it got mentioned more than once already that this Player was/is most likely the best/ for sure one of the best Powermesmers in the whole game. Means until now we have 2 ppl in EU can make Mirage work vs decent ppl, one Condimirage and one Powermirage. How about we nerf all other classes in a way only 2 ppl can play it? Did you try Mirage yourself? I did try Condimirage and just switched back to Necro, not because Condimirage is totally unplayable but because Necro and other classes are way more chill and (compared to Powermirage at least) easier to play (clearly easier to survive also compared to Condimirage). Not to mention Powermirage clearly is for masochists. Let me see some footage from you playing it at plat+, preferable Powermirage, to show how viable it is and then talk. > > > > > > > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > > > > > > > Overkill or not, as mentioned already the biggest problem with that change is that it dumbs down the whole mechanic instead adding skill ceiling, what is for sure a bad way of balancing, in particular when you do not even solve the balance issues of the one op playstyle (like Conidmirage is still passive and braindead dodgespam, now even more to not waste endurance reggen). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are better ways to balance Condimirage (without dumbing down the spec, without overnerfing skillful Powerbuilds, with adding skill ceiling to even Condimirage and make it finally less passive and for that solve the issues instead nerfing around them) and they got mentioned several times already, do the effort to read forum and you will find them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, think of the current meta. Besides the 3-4 busted builds, can you find other classes with more than 2 players that also can reach the top and win against top players with busted builds? > > > > > > And, footage from me is also biased, since I do not main mirage. I played it before prior to nerf, and I think it is very easy to play. At least again melee classes (not thief). But again. Similarly, maybe because you are really really bad at mirage or pvp in general so you just switch back to Necro. So your statement is meaningless. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient.... Your own arguments suffers against your other arguments mate. Try to be consistent. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand. 1) This thread is title "Mesmer needs a buff". 2) You said it is not too bad. 3) You said the way Anet balanced is not correct and hence reduce the ceiling. Balance != Buff right? So, I really don't understand what are you arguing here. It gives the impression that you also want to buff mirage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > That you can make something work when you play a lot better than your opponents and when you have way more work to do for the same reward than on other classes can hardly be called good balance. If you think Mirage is ok, then prove it and play it yourself and show some footage vs decent ppl. Talking on forum is easy and words are patient. > > > > > > So you know him but way more effort in this game even there is no other incentives to do so (no ESL etc...) Similarly, how do you know others did not put a lot of effort in the game? > > > > > > > > > > Footage of you is not biased, you also can get enough time to get into the class, no problem, you even played Mirage already as you say, means you don't even need that long. Coming on forum and claiming opinions without explaining anything just claiming is easy. You even call it easy to play, even better, should be easy for you to prove that then. Give me some easy Powermirage footage then please. > > > > > I was not replying to the thread name i was replying to you saying Mirage is ok and your only prove of that is, that 2 ppl can make it work in plat+. The same players could also just switch on any other class and get the same result with way less effort and skill investment. So that is not proving anything. Mirage is not "ok" with only one dodge. Powermirage is pretty butchered and that for the sake of nerfing Condimirage what didn't even solve the issues on Condimirage. I gave enough suggestions of how to nerf Condimirage in other ways instead the one dodge change. I will not repead them for you the 1000. time because you are unwilling to do the effort to inform yourself before you claim stuff and accuse me of stuff clearly not true, what you would know when closely reading my stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > Coming on forum and claiming opinions without explaining anything just claiming is easy. Same applies to you mate. How do you know there are only 2 mirages? and how do you know others invest less efforts? Without knowing the answers, you make those claims. Have you put the effort you inform yourself about your two claims? > > > > > > > > And you don't even main mirage. As you mentioned, you tried it a few times and then switch back to Necro, then how on earth your suggestions are useful? > > > > > > > > And in the last, the logic that: if one class is truly trash in every aspect, then no one can make it work, is legit. So I did not make rootless claims. If I have data, I would make stronger claims. > > > > > > > > > > I am not talking about how many effort ppl invest in the game i talk about how many effort it needs to play certain classes rewarding and competitive and how much skill that needs compared to others. That is easy to do by playing the game and all classes, like i do as a multiclass player. I currently miss Ranger that is why i do not rly comment on that despite the obvious that npcs should not have high dmg on passive skills. And no i do not just claim, i invest a lot of time to explain, based on gameknowledge and facts and logic, why i say what i say. But it seems you just want to play an semantic game to distract from the fact that you cannot prove what you claim, while you don't even have logic behind you to back you up. Again, you said you played Mirage, you say it is easy (again no logic, no prove, just a claim means nothing), so where is the problem to show some footage playing that easy spec vs decent ppl? I even give you some time to get back into the class. You don't need to upload tomorrow or in one week. Ez thing for you to do. > > > > > > > I am not talking about how many effort ppl invest in the game i talk about how many effort it needs to play certain classes rewarding and competitive and how much skill that needs compared to others. > > How do you know that? Proof? Or this is based on logic? I don't see the logical point here tho. > > > > >Again, you said you played Mirage, you say it is easy (again no logic, no prove, just a claim means nothing) > > yes I said I once tried mirage, even before the previous nerf. Its perfectly fine that you do not believe me but that not relevant... > > The discussion here is whether the current state of mirage needs a buff. And I argue because of the logic I mentioned... I did not say that I tried the CURRENT mirage and its stupidly easy to play...I Did not say that.. > > > > Again a lot of words for saying nothing, senseless to talk to ppl like you. Gosh i am done. Rain is dry becasue you never got wet when staying inside the house, logic yes! Me agree to you just to have my peace here. OMFG. So, when you blame others, you want hard evidence etc. But when it come to you, its fine, you just claim things and you must be right... Nice mate, keep living in that world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh It was photoshopped right? Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. Bonus: https://imgur.com/a/xy2JYG0 Thieves do way less damage than mesmers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > That is really common sense that Thief hardcounters Mesmer, in particular power. The only power build has a little bit better chance vs Thieves was the old core PU and that also only when getting a oneshot out of nowhere. > > Getting a oneshot out of nowhere *is* how power Mesmer works. Thats the whole idea of the build. And against thief its particularly easy, theyre really squishy, so just mirror blade + Mind Wrack + Power Spike is a full oneshot that they cant react to. But even besides that, Mesmer still has an advantage, their damage is much higher, their sustain slightly higher, and their lockdown better. And hell, they are also largely immune to blinds given that their attacks are mostly multihits and they have several instant-cast ones, so even stuff like Smokescreen is not particularly useful. No it is not, the only spec could do that was PU stealthspam, no other Powermes spec can oneshot "OUT OF NOWHERE", they only can oneshot on unaware ppl and ppl with too low reaction time and/ or no clue how to effectively counterplay it by the lack of class knowledge. Also there are plenty of power builds without oneshot dmg and for that not build around only oneshotting. A Thief who get hit by a Powermes (even a oneshot build) not using PU and did stealth stack from completely out of nowhere should deinstall. He lost vs something he hardcounters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > It was photoshopped right? > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. Edit: > Bonus: > https://imgur.com/a/xy2JYG0 > > Thieves do way less damage than mesmers! Wow, you didnt even try to pretend that you didnt manipulate the situation to create the damage numbers you wanted. Now suddenly shadowshot does 9k. The 1.3 scaling attack does 9k. You legit just took of all your gear, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > That is really common sense that Thief hardcounters Mesmer, in particular power. The only power build has a little bit better chance vs Thieves was the old core PU and that also only when getting a oneshot out of nowhere. > > > > Getting a oneshot out of nowhere *is* how power Mesmer works. Thats the whole idea of the build. And against thief its particularly easy, theyre really squishy, so just mirror blade + Mind Wrack + Power Spike is a full oneshot that they cant react to. But even besides that, Mesmer still has an advantage, their damage is much higher, their sustain slightly higher, and their lockdown better. And hell, they are also largely immune to blinds given that their attacks are mostly multihits and they have several instant-cast ones, so even stuff like Smokescreen is not particularly useful. > > No it is not, the only spec could do that was PU stealthspam, no other Powermes spec can oneshot "OUT OF NOWHERE", they only can oneshot on unaware ppl and ppl with too low reaction time and/ or no clue how to effectively counterplay it by the lack of class knowledge. Also there are plenty of power builds without oneshot dmg and for that not build around only oneshotting. A Thief who get hit by a Powermes (even a oneshot build) not using PU and did stealth stack from completely out of nowhere should deinstall. He lost vs something he hardcounters. PU is not the only spec that can use Mass Invisibility or The Prestige. Thats all thats needed for oneshots out of nowhere. And no, reaction time is not relevant here, as I said, Mirror Blade + Mind Wrack + Power Spike (not in that order) leaves no time to react at all, its guaranteed unless they predicted. And no, there really arent any power builds that arent about oneshotting. The most there is a bunker chrono build, but that one also beats thief (mainly because thief literally cant kill it). Except as I have explained, Thief does ***NOT*** hard counter Power Mes. A thief who got hit by a oneshot build not using PU got hit by a burst that cannot be reacted to. Thats *expected*. There is *nothing* he couldve done. But as I explained, even if the Mesmer doesnt want to oneshot for some reason, they still beat thief. Higher damage, better survivability, better sustain, better CC lockdown. How exactly do you think thief is supposed ot beat that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. It's instant. And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. And this one what's the excuse? https://imgur.com/a/dK3LEk6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > It's instant. > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > It's instant. > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder -> 0.5 cast time https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker -> 0.75 cast time. "Instant". I dont think you know what instant means. And Im pretty sure you needed a third attack too. All while the opponent did absolutely nothing against it. Yeah, so much for that. The Shadowshot ones are also pretty clearly with you taking off your gear to push your defense stat lower to artificially up the damage. I dont have the time to do the *exact* math right now, but looking at the last time I did one of these calculations, this is about twice as much as is possible with the glassiest, highest damage build around. In other words, about what you would expect if a player were to take off their gear and lose all of the defense rating, lowering their armour in half and doubling the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > That is really common sense that Thief hardcounters Mesmer, in particular power. The only power build has a little bit better chance vs Thieves was the old core PU and that also only when getting a oneshot out of nowhere. > > > > > > Getting a oneshot out of nowhere *is* how power Mesmer works. Thats the whole idea of the build. And against thief its particularly easy, theyre really squishy, so just mirror blade + Mind Wrack + Power Spike is a full oneshot that they cant react to. But even besides that, Mesmer still has an advantage, their damage is much higher, their sustain slightly higher, and their lockdown better. And hell, they are also largely immune to blinds given that their attacks are mostly multihits and they have several instant-cast ones, so even stuff like Smokescreen is not particularly useful. > > > > No it is not, the only spec could do that was PU stealthspam, no other Powermes spec can oneshot "OUT OF NOWHERE", they only can oneshot on unaware ppl and ppl with too low reaction time and/ or no clue how to effectively counterplay it by the lack of class knowledge. Also there are plenty of power builds without oneshot dmg and for that not build around only oneshotting. A Thief who get hit by a Powermes (even a oneshot build) not using PU and did stealth stack from completely out of nowhere should deinstall. He lost vs something he hardcounters. > > PU is not the only spec that can use Mass Invisibility or The Prestige. Thats all thats needed for oneshots out of nowhere. And no, reaction time is not relevant here, as I said, Mirror Blade + Mind Wrack + Power Spike (not in that order) leaves no time to react at all, its guaranteed unless they predicted. And no, there really arent any power builds that arent about oneshotting. The most there is a bunker chrono build, but that one also beats thief (mainly because thief literally cant kill it). > > Except as I have explained, Thief does ***NOT*** hard counter Power Mes. A thief who got hit by a oneshot build not using PU got hit by a burst that cannot be reacted to. Thats *expected*. There is *nothing* he couldve done. But as I explained, even if the Mesmer doesnt want to oneshot for some reason, they still beat thief. Higher damage, better survivability, better sustain, better CC lockdown. How exactly do you think thief is supposed ot beat that? Ok then get oneshotted by Powermesmers without PU AS THIEF (rofl) then, when you try so hard to not accept every counter play, up to you, lucky not my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > It's instant. > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > It's instant. > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder -> 0.5 cast time > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker -> 0.75 cast time. > "Instant". I dont think you know what instant means. And Im pretty sure you needed a third attack too. All while the opponent did absolutely nothing against it. Yeah, so much for that. > > The Shadowshot ones are also pretty clearly with you taking off your gear to push your defense stat lower to artificially up the damage. I dont have the time to do the *exact* math right now, but looking at the last time I did one of these calculations, this is about twice as much as is possible with the glassiest, highest damage build around. In other words, about what you would expect if a player were to take off their gear and lose all of the defense rating, lowering their armour in half and doubling the damage. Mirror blade 0,75 cast time Mind stab 0,25 cast time No instant huehuehue. BS, I was with all gear. It seems you're clueless regarding your own profession. It's easy go into arena, take all damage crap you can get and test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > That is really common sense that Thief hardcounters Mesmer, in particular power. The only power build has a little bit better chance vs Thieves was the old core PU and that also only when getting a oneshot out of nowhere. > > > > > > > > Getting a oneshot out of nowhere *is* how power Mesmer works. Thats the whole idea of the build. And against thief its particularly easy, theyre really squishy, so just mirror blade + Mind Wrack + Power Spike is a full oneshot that they cant react to. But even besides that, Mesmer still has an advantage, their damage is much higher, their sustain slightly higher, and their lockdown better. And hell, they are also largely immune to blinds given that their attacks are mostly multihits and they have several instant-cast ones, so even stuff like Smokescreen is not particularly useful. > > > > > > No it is not, the only spec could do that was PU stealthspam, no other Powermes spec can oneshot "OUT OF NOWHERE", they only can oneshot on unaware ppl and ppl with too low reaction time and/ or no clue how to effectively counterplay it by the lack of class knowledge. Also there are plenty of power builds without oneshot dmg and for that not build around only oneshotting. A Thief who get hit by a Powermes (even a oneshot build) not using PU and did stealth stack from completely out of nowhere should deinstall. He lost vs something he hardcounters. > > > > PU is not the only spec that can use Mass Invisibility or The Prestige. Thats all thats needed for oneshots out of nowhere. And no, reaction time is not relevant here, as I said, Mirror Blade + Mind Wrack + Power Spike (not in that order) leaves no time to react at all, its guaranteed unless they predicted. And no, there really arent any power builds that arent about oneshotting. The most there is a bunker chrono build, but that one also beats thief (mainly because thief literally cant kill it). > > > > Except as I have explained, Thief does ***NOT*** hard counter Power Mes. A thief who got hit by a oneshot build not using PU got hit by a burst that cannot be reacted to. Thats *expected*. There is *nothing* he couldve done. But as I explained, even if the Mesmer doesnt want to oneshot for some reason, they still beat thief. Higher damage, better survivability, better sustain, better CC lockdown. How exactly do you think thief is supposed ot beat that? > > Ok then get oneshotted by Powermesmers without PU AS THIEF (rofl) then, when you try so hard to not accept every counter play, up to you, lucky not my problem. Sometimes I wonder if you people are just intentionally being dense. Let me repeat myself. The oneshot *has no counterplay*. Here is how it goes. The Mesmer uses "The Prestige". They are in stealth for 3 seconds. The theif does not know theyre even there. The Mesmer goes up to the thief, pre-casts Mirror Blade, and then Power Spike and Mind Wrack. The thief is dead in <0.1 seconds, which is far below the fastest known human reaction time. He died. No counterplay. End of story. So, what was the "counterplay" here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > It's instant. > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like something is missing from this story tbh. Not saying it can't, but Phantasmal Rogue hitting 7K backstab on a medium armor target seems.. unlikely? I honestly don't know. If someone better at crunching the numbers says it's possible, I'll believe it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k" --> sounds like you were hit by a shatter? Maybe your opponent ordered a shatter before going downed, and the lovely AI pathfinding caused a delayed shatter? Then the PR finished you off? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did something similar to a DE in 1v1 recently. My Phantasmal Mage with its S+ timing and targeting (/s) downed the DE right after I was downed. This put him in downstate with a long burn stack and some confusion, which he was making worse by using his downstate 1 ability on me. Then I rallied after my PR finished him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Point is, maybe you were downed by more than just PR? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nah, phantasms hit high numbers due to them using thier own weapon numbers that are twice as high if not more of other weapons. > > > > > > > > > so even tho it has 1.15 coof its actually 2.3+ and bonus from back hit pushes it to almost 3.0 coof. almost as much as pet autoattack. > > > > > > > > > I have seen up to 15k rogues before the patch. > > > > > > > > > And now its propably even possible to hit bigger numbers if you get might and oponent still somehow has 20+ vunl stacks. > > > > > > > > > mostly its just 2-8k hits > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok. I was watching my PR extra carefully today because of this discussion and I wasn't seeing higher than 2K-ish backstabs. Maybe I got a dud. :pensive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish I coulda screen shot the mirage downstate bursting me for 7k lmao. That's complete bs lol I killed him and was poking with sb and had over 7k actually and bam bursted down to downstate. That's fing ridiculous > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is this any different the ranger bursting you with pet, condi thief applying 10 stacks of poison etc etc? no? move along > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah cuz being insta burst for 7k from a downed mesmer is like thief's downstate poking with its poison lmao even rangers isnt that broken. Yes rangers revive is broken but their downstate burst even with pet isnt that broken. Its fine tho I'm sure itl get nerfed with rest of downstates :) but yup moving on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > diut, ranger pet can legit hit bigger numbers with autoattacks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And that makes it ok? I've never had a ranger pet even pre patch burst me instantly for 7k, if they did I'd be saying the same as it ridiculous. No class should be bursting another for 7k while being in downstate, that's crazy broken no matter what class is doing it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > its like complaining about handgun while everyone is running aroud with rifles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and your argument is that guns are bad, read what the skill does look how it works. after quick google and a little bit of brain power you will realize how to counter it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no hope for mesmer, if people start complaining even about kitten downstate phantasm lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I disagree. I'm talking about bursts while being in downstate and that alone. Don't start mentioning what everything every class can do that's op to compare lol I'm just mention something that's overperforming and not listing off everything that is so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said regardless of class no class or spec should be in downstate and be able to insta burst another to downstate when their at half hp regardless of any situation. Again with damage nerfs but zero downstate nerfing it is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > learn to play. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > first thing you should do after you got hit for 7k with the ability should be googling what it does. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Rogue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I googled it for you since you seem to be too lazy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 things for you my man since you are the whiny type not the thinking type. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 it deals more dmg towards the back, if you cant dodge stare towards it to take 20% less damage and have it go on longer cooldown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 half a sec cast time + phantasm delay means you have 1s of a tell, easy to dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3 it can not be used instantly, its on cooldown from the start like other classes skills, meaning you have time to LoS,get endurance for a dodge or simply wait on an elevation and drop down when you see the phantasm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was standing there shooting it with sb and all the sudden clones rushed and exploded me for 7k, I didnt do anything grand defensively because I knew I was still half hp, it insta burst me to downstate. I assumed half my hp was enough to keep pinging the downed mesmer. I'm not arguing with u anymore because u always turn toxic and ignorant and are so bias towards mesmer u will never admit something on it is broken. Are u a child? Regardless of class no class should be able to burst another for anything close to 7k while their in downstate, can u not read? Thats broken no matter who is doing it. Anyway u can reply ur usual nonsense all u want I will not be wasting time replying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you stood still, and let clone kitten you over. and isntead blaming yourself for doing something stupid you go onto the forums to complain. > > > > > > > > > > > > clap clap clap clap clap > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Replace "clone" with "pet" and you just described yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pet doesnt vanish after it misses :D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do u guys know how to play mirage? I'm just asking cuz I literally played two games in a row where a gs mirage was insta burting my 16k+ hp in literally a sec and all while from stealth. Not only does mesmer not need any buffs it actually needs its bursts severely lowered. U guys whining that it has no damage leads me to believe u dont know ur class because both these mesmers were doing easy 14k bursts from stealth and ur whining about pets or rangers 5k+ bursts in other threads lmao u guys are ridiculous and have zero right asking for nerfs on any classes when urs needs heavier nerfs :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't play GS-burst or anything with more stealth than Torch 4, so I promise it wasn't me. ^^ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that build a glass cannon that dies as easily as it kills, especially after baiting its only dodge? The core mes version is probably better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can definitely hit high numbers on backstab as high as a mesmer burst if not more, without the effort, you just have to do what you do on mesmer, choose all damage traits. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You cant. Not even *close*. Backstabs damage scaling is 1.8 now. Mind Wrack alone hits for 2.0. And then you also have mirror blade hitting for a total of 1.57 and power spike hitting for 0.45. For a total damage scaling of more than twice that of backstab, with the same amount of reaction time the enemy has to work with (i.e. none at all). While there is something to be said for the Mesmer version taking a bit more effort, it is also just *far* more powerful. Thieves burst cant even oneshot squishies. Mesmers > > > > > > can oneshot actually fairly tanky builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the rest of the conversation on this thread thieves complaining about mesmers make my heart warm. Any thief that dies against a mesmer should have their game autouninstalled. Mesmer is a free meal for thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > https://imgur.com/rWjFSgh > > > > > > > > > > It was photoshopped right? > > > > > Now you can put your guitar back on the bag. > > > > > > > > Why is it every time people talk about backstab people keep trying to pull the "fully malice stacked malicious backstab" move and expect it to work? Yes, a fully stacked malicious backstab can hit very hard. Photonic Blasting Module can hit *even harder*. Do you know what they share in common? You cant really hit them on enemies who arent AFK or lagging hard. Though, looking at that black powder damage, I also have the sneaking suspicion that you mightve taken off some of your gear to push the damage up. Because for Black Powder to do 1.5k, that requires a level of glass that even a zerkers Ele doesnt have. > > > > > > It's instant. > > > And the shadowshot ones are with 0 malice. > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder -> 0.5 cast time > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heartseeker -> 0.75 cast time. > > "Instant". I dont think you know what instant means. And Im pretty sure you needed a third attack too. All while the opponent did absolutely nothing against it. Yeah, so much for that. > > > > The Shadowshot ones are also pretty clearly with you taking off your gear to push your defense stat lower to artificially up the damage. I dont have the time to do the *exact* math right now, but looking at the last time I did one of these calculations, this is about twice as much as is possible with the glassiest, highest damage build around. In other words, about what you would expect if a player were to take off their gear and lose all of the defense rating, lowering their armour in half and doubling the damage. > > Mirror blade 0,75 cast time > Mind stab 0,25 cast time > No instant huehuehue. > Mirror-blade is pre-cast within stealth (Which you cant do with Black Powder or Heartseeker as they are *the way you enter stealth in the first place*. Mind Stab is not neccessary for the combo. Bad excuse. > BS, I was with all gear. It seems you're clueless regarding your own profession. > It's easy go into arena, take all damage kitten you can get and test it. > Oh please, thats a bad lie and you should know better than to stick with it. But dont worry, once Im back and have some time, Ill do the exact damage calculation and show that you in fact are lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > *Condi* Mesmer is. Consume Plasma gives Resistance, and Resistance screws condi Mesmer over pretty badly. Power Mesmer on the other hand? Yeah thats not actually a good matchup for thief. Thief cant oneshot them, and they can actually fight back while dazed, all while having several times the damage the thief has and stronger CC lockdown. > > > > > > > > > > > > That is really common sense that Thief hardcounters Mesmer, in particular power. The only power build has a little bit better chance vs Thieves was the old core PU and that also only when getting a oneshot out of nowhere. > > > > > > > > > > Getting a oneshot out of nowhere *is* how power Mesmer works. Thats the whole idea of the build. And against thief its particularly easy, theyre really squishy, so just mirror blade + Mind Wrack + Power Spike is a full oneshot that they cant react to. But even besides that, Mesmer still has an advantage, their damage is much higher, their sustain slightly higher, and their lockdown better. And hell, they are also largely immune to blinds given that their attacks are mostly multihits and they have several instant-cast ones, so even stuff like Smokescreen is not particularly useful. > > > > > > > > No it is not, the only spec could do that was PU stealthspam, no other Powermes spec can oneshot "OUT OF NOWHERE", they only can oneshot on unaware ppl and ppl with too low reaction time and/ or no clue how to effectively counterplay it by the lack of class knowledge. Also there are plenty of power builds without oneshot dmg and for that not build around only oneshotting. A Thief who get hit by a Powermes (even a oneshot build) not using PU and did stealth stack from completely out of nowhere should deinstall. He lost vs something he hardcounters. > > > > > > PU is not the only spec that can use Mass Invisibility or The Prestige. Thats all thats needed for oneshots out of nowhere. And no, reaction time is not relevant here, as I said, Mirror Blade + Mind Wrack + Power Spike (not in that order) leaves no time to react at all, its guaranteed unless they predicted. And no, there really arent any power builds that arent about oneshotting. The most there is a bunker chrono build, but that one also beats thief (mainly because thief literally cant kill it). > > > > > > Except as I have explained, Thief does ***NOT*** hard counter Power Mes. A thief who got hit by a oneshot build not using PU got hit by a burst that cannot be reacted to. Thats *expected*. There is *nothing* he couldve done. But as I explained, even if the Mesmer doesnt want to oneshot for some reason, they still beat thief. Higher damage, better survivability, better sustain, better CC lockdown. How exactly do you think thief is supposed ot beat that? > > > > Ok then get oneshotted by Powermesmers without PU AS THIEF (rofl) then, when you try so hard to not accept every counter play, up to you, lucky not my problem. > > Sometimes I wonder if you people are just intentionally being dense. Let me repeat myself. The oneshot *has no counterplay*. Here is how it goes. The Mesmer uses "The Prestige". They are in stealth for 3 seconds. The theif does not know theyre even there. The Mesmer goes up to the thief, pre-casts Mirror Blade, and then Power Spike and Mind Wrack. The thief is dead in <0.1 seconds, which is far below the fastest known human reaction time. He died. No counterplay. End of story. So, what was the "counterplay" here? As said enjoy being oneshotted "out of nowhere" from a 3 seconds stealth Mesmer xDDDDDDDDDD Never happend to me in my whole life on no matter what class. Not my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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