Guides for how to fight against particular classes/mechanics

[blp.3489]

Has anyone seen guides on how to fight against/survive various classes or mechanics? I have no idea what to do when attacked by players using stealth or that teleport all over the place such that I can't get any hits in. Especially when conditions are overwhelming my cleansing options.

[rng.1024]

There used to be thread that dealt with the meta at the time just like you are describing, however it's not as relevant now as back then.

 

Luckily every profession still have counters, and usually it's around 3 things you need to be aware of in order to fight them effectively (f.ex dodge a specific utility, don't attack when f1 is up and don't stand in this specific AoE).

 

To start, why don't you tell us what you play and a list of the matchups you are struggling with, and I'm sure plenty of people are willing to lend some insight ^^

[Strider Pj.2193]

I would also suggest rolling some of the classes you are struggling against, to understand batter how they function.

 

Once you understand them better, they are easier to fight.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

Also watch twitch streamers and youtubers of various classes to see what skills they use and how they attack.

Basically learn their rotations and dodge their killer moves / setups.

[Infusion.7149]

Strider Pj's advice is the best option for you. Until you play every class you won't truly know how to counter it. Watching it second hand probably won't help you as much.

[kash.9213]

Make a character of that class but first ask those questions in that classes forum then take what their saying fresh in your head and mess around with it all for a bit.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Well, each class has their own ways of dealing with problems.

 

In general, you want to flank your enemy and not hit them head on. This is because most abilities require them to face you. Binding a Look Behind key helps to see if people are trying to do the same to you (pretty much mandatory vs thieves). There are also a few abilities (most ground target skills) that can be shot behind you. This is a great way to deal with people that try to yolo and chase you down.

 

Learning to take advantage of line of sight (LOS) runs along the same principle. Have you ever get pissed off because you keep seeing obstructed? Well, maybe the game is badly coded (because it is), but sometimes the player is outplaying you because they're using walls and slopes to blunt ranged attacks, aoes, and targeted teleports. The most famous example is using the house at North Camp or at Golanta Camp (is that a house? acn't remember). Jumping in the water is a good way to get away from a bad fight, simply because like 3 people gear for underwater.

 

If you are a vulnerable class with few blocks and invuls (read: necro), then it is your job to AVOID open ground. If a pew pew finds you and you aren't paying attention, you will probably die especially if anything adds to the fight. Likewise, if you are a ranged class, don't let them lead you into rough terrain, and definitely don't facetank them just because you need to assert dominance. You will die and proceed to make crappy threads about how maul is overpowered or something. Don't be them.

 

You should always know the panic buttons of your builds. Even if you will lose the fight, you can still buy enough time for you to get help or run away). If your build doesn't have panic buttons, then you accept that you either kill your opponent or you die. That means don't whiff. As a result, this is not recommended. If you've picked up some pvp node holding build from metabattle, please drop it. You're not hitting anyone with it, because wvw is a larger playing field. Yes, sometimes people will want to duel you, but nobody is obliged to fight with your bunker ele build (not salty here, srs).

 

On that subject, there are people that will attack you solely to waste your time. This is a legitimate tactic because you being tied up here means you're not doing something elsewhere. However, you just need to recognize this instead of spending 10 minutes trying to chase them down. While some are just here to mess with you, the majority is probably just delaying you so they can kite you into their friends. You should recognize by the damage they can do that these are a waste of time to fight and just disengage (but don't just flat out run, so that they can freecast). Most high stealth/mobility/bunker builds are like this.

 

Speaking of disengaging, there are times when you just need to run and other times when your retreat needs to be more gradual. In team fights (say 3v3), it is important that you disengage together or you just get picked off. Using CC's and such can save your allies from being downed. Being able to pressure enemies can also force them to stop bursting. Obviously if you have 50 people chasing you it's every person for themself.

 

I haven't talked about anything regarding killing your enemy, because I think one should learn to not lose first. You can't exactly fight people if you're downed (unless necro ofc). We would need class specifics. And yes, pack lots of condi clear. You'll probably have to state your class and build but this works for all https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Cleansing

 

The best way to learn this fast? Try tailing an enemy zerg without being in your own. Just try to poke the tail or pull someone out of it, but run away once others focus on you. I recommend SMC fights first because you are more likely to be ignored.

 

After all, if you can dodge a zerg, you can dodge a player.

 

[blp.3489]

> If you are a vulnerable class with few blocks and invuls (read: necro), then it is your job to AVOID open ground. If a pew pew finds you and you aren't paying attention, you will probably die especially if anything adds to the fight.

I am playing necro and I never thought about terrain very much so thanks for this. Thanks for your entire post actually.

> You should always know the panic buttons of your builds.

I am slowing getting better at using the worm and the spectral walk to make escapes. At this point I'm mostly happy to just escape let alone win fights.

 

Players that materialize out of stealth, clobber me, disappear again, repeat... I really don't know how to handle. The other day I got clobbered by a deadeye that appeared, hit me with 4 5k damage plus cripple skirmisher's shots, and then another for 3k. I guess I'm slow but I get so busy clearing conditions that I'm a sitting duck. I just put sigils of cleansing on my weapons, which helped somewhat, at the cost of damage.

 

Having gotten to enjoy the downed life leech skill in PVE it seems half my opponents stealth before doing a finisher, negating it entirely.

 

Opponents that here then there then somewhere else I don't know what to do with.

 

I bought two new character slots during the recent sale so I'll create characters of a couple more classes, although that isn't a quick process. I still think that someone putting together a basic tactics for fighting different classes/mechanics would be doing new players a huge favor, and maybe keep more of us newbies playing wvw.

 

Anyway, thanks again.

[ArchonWing.9480]

> @"blp.3489" said:

> > If you are a vulnerable class with few blocks and invuls (read: necro), then it is your job to AVOID open ground. If a pew pew finds you and you aren't paying attention, you will probably die especially if anything adds to the fight.

> I am playing necro and I never thought about terrain very much so thanks for this. Thanks for your entire post actually.

> > You should always know the panic buttons of your builds.

> I am slowing getting better at using the worm and the spectral walk to make escapes. At this point I'm mostly happy to just escape let alone win fights.

>

> Players that materialize out of stealth, clobber me, disappear again, repeat... I really don't know how to handle. The other day I got clobbered by a deadeye that appeared, hit me with 4 5k damage plus cripple skirmisher's shots, and then another for 3k. I guess I'm slow but I get so busy clearing conditions that I'm a sitting duck. I just put sigils of cleansing on my weapons, which helped somewhat, at the cost of damage.

>

> Having gotten to enjoy the downed life leech skill in PVE it seems half my opponents stealth before doing a finisher, negating it entirely.

>

> Opponents that here then there then somewhere else I don't know what to do with.

>

> I bought two new character slots during the recent sale so I'll create characters of a couple more classes, although that isn't a quick process. I still think that someone putting together a basic tactics for fighting different classes/mechanics would be doing new players a huge favor, and maybe keep more of us newbies playing wvw.

>

> Anyway, thanks again.

 

Well, don't feel too bad. IMO, Necro is the hardest solo classes because of its vulnerability to range and poor mobility. The mount for all of its flaws was probably a boon to necros. I have a friend that does 1v2 and 1v3 regularly on his reaper, but he has a very yolo mentality and doesn't mind dying. Because you can not jet out of a fight like a warrior or ranger can, fighting is often the only thing you can do.

 

Deadeyes are a pain and honestly you will probably just lose if you are unaware and they will just run if you manage to gain the upper hand somehow. To stand a chance against that you'll have to map the look behind key to be aware so you may have that split second to react. Fortunately, if you've read my above post, you may be clinging onto a wall and thus limits the angles of attack.

 

Unlike many on these forums that believe that necro shouldn't be able to win fights or everyone has 0 ping split second reactions, I feel that it is exceptionally punishing. Maybe that core signet necro hype build could help but I have yet to try this. Sadly the terrible template system has made it hard to experiment.

 

You can deal with poor thieves though. Those are pretty much summarized by burst ---> panic dagger storm after you hit back ---> and run away. When they start the spinning motion, you need to not bother attacking them at all because it does evades and just sorta move away from it. So if you are to shroud to defend their burst, let some mild pressure, and make them panic, then these won't be a threat. It is always important to apply some pressure regardless even if you are running away whether it be CC or damage. Just anything that distracts them from continuing to burst. In general, I find some condi damage to be more useful. Yes, they can clear them but being able to apply and forget for the short windows of which you can actually hit them is much better.

 

Now a good thief on the other hand will be more patient and wait for you to panic blow all your cooldowns. You probably can recognize this if they're waiting for a while to get you. You probably won't win vs this as you are, but you may be able to force some kind of stalemate or slowly lose long enough for you to either get away or for someone else to come along and pew pew them.

 

[Redpawa.4108]

> @"blp.3489" said:

> I am slowing getting better at using the worm and the spectral walk to make escapes. At this point I'm mostly happy to just escape let alone win fights.

>

> Players that materialize out of stealth, clobber me, disappear again, repeat... I really don't know how to handle. The other day I got clobbered by a deadeye that appeared, hit me with 4 5k damage plus cripple skirmisher's shots, and then another for 3k. I guess I'm slow but I get so busy clearing conditions that I'm a sitting duck. I just put sigils of cleansing on my weapons, which helped somewhat, at the cost of damage.

>

> Having gotten to enjoy the downed life leech skill in PVE it seems half my opponents stealth before doing a finisher, negating it entirely.

>

> Opponents that here then there then somewhere else I don't know what to do with.

 

Specific guide on building necros;

Marauder gear is your friend, You overall scale much harder stacking Vitality than stacking Toughness.

Against ranged pressure;

- As Core just shroud AA until they get anet to nerf you.

- As Reaper, all in'ing gets most ranged builds to back off quickly.

- As Scourge, back off while harassing. Your profession mechanics won't let you win easily. Remember it is a limitation of the profession, not you.

 

General guide against ultra-ranged on melee (Deadeye, Ranger, Killshot Warrior);

- Your best defense is a rock.

The maps have intriguing LOS, good positioning will mitigate 75% of that 30k burst

- Your best defense is a wall, always know your closest friendly structure.

This is especially applicable if you are able to avoid being de-mounted

- Your best defense is a good offense, all in on that ranged person.

Keep a movement skill in reserve while hitting them hard enough to get them to break combat. Use movement skills to run opposite to them and mount up. voilà, you beat the thief at their own game.

 

At the end of the day, Any tactic that lets you win is valid if you are being ganked.

[Redpawa.4108]

Bonus post because I don't want people to think Necro's are somehow OP.

 

Core;

Extremely high mitigation, Mediocre damage, Non-existent stability

To counter core necro, cc them out of shroud and drop your burst. If you are unable to kill them stack chill on them and wait out shroud, then repeat.

 

Reaper;

Extremely high cleave, Decent mobility (RS2 is 900 range), Low shroud

If a reaper activates shroud, back off. Pressure them after shroud as they now have 10s of being effectively defenseless.

 

Scourge;

Avoid the ground aoe and pressure them from range, beyond 900 they cannot hit you.

Alternatively, all in with cc and kill them before they can break stun.

 

Overall;

To counter Necro's use hard CC.

Most players will have Spectral Walk, & Spectral armour both on 30s CD. With 2 light stuns and 1 heavy stun you can catch them out and stop them.

Special note; if they turn green and start floating they have 1 stability every 3s. Treat lich form as them being in shroud.

[kash.9213]

> @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > @"blp.3489" said:

> > > If you are a vulnerable class with few blocks and invuls (read: necro), then it is your job to AVOID open ground. If a pew pew finds you and you aren't paying attention, you will probably die especially if anything adds to the fight.

> > I am playing necro and I never thought about terrain very much so thanks for this. Thanks for your entire post actually.

> > > You should always know the panic buttons of your builds.

> > I am slowing getting better at using the worm and the spectral walk to make escapes. At this point I'm mostly happy to just escape let alone win fights.

> >

> > Players that materialize out of stealth, clobber me, disappear again, repeat... I really don't know how to handle. The other day I got clobbered by a deadeye that appeared, hit me with 4 5k damage plus cripple skirmisher's shots, and then another for 3k. I guess I'm slow but I get so busy clearing conditions that I'm a sitting duck. I just put sigils of cleansing on my weapons, which helped somewhat, at the cost of damage.

> >

> > Having gotten to enjoy the downed life leech skill in PVE it seems half my opponents stealth before doing a finisher, negating it entirely.

> >

> > Opponents that here then there then somewhere else I don't know what to do with.

> >

> > I bought two new character slots during the recent sale so I'll create characters of a couple more classes, although that isn't a quick process. I still think that someone putting together a basic tactics for fighting different classes/mechanics would be doing new players a huge favor, and maybe keep more of us newbies playing wvw.

> >

> > Anyway, thanks again.

>

> Well, don't feel too bad. IMO, Necro is the hardest solo classes because of its vulnerability to range and poor mobility. The mount for all of its flaws was probably a boon to necros. I have a friend that does 1v2 and 1v3 regularly on his reaper, but he has a very yolo mentality and doesn't mind dying. Because you can not jet out of a fight like a warrior or ranger can, fighting is often the only thing you can do.

>

> Deadeyes are a pain and honestly you will probably just lose if you are unaware and they will just run if you manage to gain the upper hand somehow. To stand a chance against that **you'll have to map the look behind key to be aware so you may have that split second to react.** Fortunately, if you've read my above post, you may be clinging onto a wall and thus limits the angles of attack.

>

> Unlike many on these forums that believe that necro shouldn't be able to win fights or everyone has 0 ping split second reactions, I feel that it is exceptionally punishing. Maybe that core signet necro hype build could help but I have yet to try this. Sadly the terrible template system has made it hard to experiment.

>

> You can deal with poor thieves though. Those are pretty much summarized by burst ---> panic dagger storm after you hit back ---> and run away. When they start the spinning motion, you need to not bother attacking them at all because it does evades and just sorta move away from it. So if you are to shroud to defend their burst, let some mild pressure, and make them panic, then these won't be a threat. It is always important to apply some pressure regardless even if you are running away whether it be CC or damage. Just anything that distracts them from continuing to burst. In general, I find some condi damage to be more useful. Yes, they can clear them but being able to apply and forget for the short windows of which you can actually hit them is much better.

>

> Now a good thief on the other hand will be more patient and wait for you to panic blow all your cooldowns. You probably can recognize this if they're waiting for a while to get you. You probably won't win vs this as you are, but you may be able to force some kind of stalemate or slowly lose long enough for you to either get away or for someone else to come along and pew pew them.

>

 

I prefer max camera pan speed and always looking around while traveling. Look-Behind doesn't feel fluid enough to me take advantage of seeing something sooner.

[ArchonWing.9480]

> @"kash.9213" said:

> > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > > @"blp.3489" said:

> > > > If you are a vulnerable class with few blocks and invuls (read: necro), then it is your job to AVOID open ground. If a pew pew finds you and you aren't paying attention, you will probably die especially if anything adds to the fight.

> > > I am playing necro and I never thought about terrain very much so thanks for this. Thanks for your entire post actually.

> > > > You should always know the panic buttons of your builds.

> > > I am slowing getting better at using the worm and the spectral walk to make escapes. At this point I'm mostly happy to just escape let alone win fights.

> > >

> > > Players that materialize out of stealth, clobber me, disappear again, repeat... I really don't know how to handle. The other day I got clobbered by a deadeye that appeared, hit me with 4 5k damage plus cripple skirmisher's shots, and then another for 3k. I guess I'm slow but I get so busy clearing conditions that I'm a sitting duck. I just put sigils of cleansing on my weapons, which helped somewhat, at the cost of damage.

> > >

> > > Having gotten to enjoy the downed life leech skill in PVE it seems half my opponents stealth before doing a finisher, negating it entirely.

> > >

> > > Opponents that here then there then somewhere else I don't know what to do with.

> > >

> > > I bought two new character slots during the recent sale so I'll create characters of a couple more classes, although that isn't a quick process. I still think that someone putting together a basic tactics for fighting different classes/mechanics would be doing new players a huge favor, and maybe keep more of us newbies playing wvw.

> > >

> > > Anyway, thanks again.

> >

> > Well, don't feel too bad. IMO, Necro is the hardest solo classes because of its vulnerability to range and poor mobility. The mount for all of its flaws was probably a boon to necros. I have a friend that does 1v2 and 1v3 regularly on his reaper, but he has a very yolo mentality and doesn't mind dying. Because you can not jet out of a fight like a warrior or ranger can, fighting is often the only thing you can do.

> >

> > Deadeyes are a pain and honestly you will probably just lose if you are unaware and they will just run if you manage to gain the upper hand somehow. To stand a chance against that **you'll have to map the look behind key to be aware so you may have that split second to react.** Fortunately, if you've read my above post, you may be clinging onto a wall and thus limits the angles of attack.

> >

> > Unlike many on these forums that believe that necro shouldn't be able to win fights or everyone has 0 ping split second reactions, I feel that it is exceptionally punishing. Maybe that core signet necro hype build could help but I have yet to try this. Sadly the terrible template system has made it hard to experiment.

> >

> > You can deal with poor thieves though. Those are pretty much summarized by burst ---> panic dagger storm after you hit back ---> and run away. When they start the spinning motion, you need to not bother attacking them at all because it does evades and just sorta move away from it. So if you are to shroud to defend their burst, let some mild pressure, and make them panic, then these won't be a threat. It is always important to apply some pressure regardless even if you are running away whether it be CC or damage. Just anything that distracts them from continuing to burst. In general, I find some condi damage to be more useful. Yes, they can clear them but being able to apply and forget for the short windows of which you can actually hit them is much better.

> >

> > Now a good thief on the other hand will be more patient and wait for you to panic blow all your cooldowns. You probably can recognize this if they're waiting for a while to get you. You probably won't win vs this as you are, but you may be able to force some kind of stalemate or slowly lose long enough for you to either get away or for someone else to come along and pew pew them.

> >

>

> I prefer max camera pan speed and always looking around while traveling. Look-Behind doesn't feel fluid enough to me take advantage of seeing something sooner.

 

You know what; that's probably true. I'm just really lazy.

[dubidubidubidu.5308]

the only guides about specific matchups i know are from Shorts or me (pov condi or power mesmer). they are eventually based on different metabuilds but that doesnt rly matter that much. they will still help to understand both classes better.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIgNjrn7Jug

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVzpKN1g1Wk