Necromancer Fractal/Raid Balance?

[necromaniac.7629]

well atleast necro is 100% viable in every game mode compared to other classes :)

[Obtena.7952]

> @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> Tell me this, an MMO has players create a persistent character and provides persistent rewards, this means that players are invested in their character. If the developer continues to shaft a class and is almost bent on pushing it into the ground, I don’t think those people will stick around.

 

Then they don't stick around ... but let's be clear ... Anet has already made this game in a way that classes don't get the shaft because you can play how you want and be successful in this game. See, the irony of your statement is significant ... Anet has made this game in a way that ALLOWS you to make that investment HOWEVER you want and be successful. You can play however you want and your investment is maintained ALWAYS because nothing prevents you from doing so ... except you.

 

If you view the time you spend on a character as an investment ... then it's up to you to properly research and figure out if that's the right class for you to make that investment in. It's not Anet's job to have such a equalization over some set of factors so you feel your investment in time is not wasted. That's absurd. Choose better. Also be aware ... this approach is nonsensical because we KNOW the classes can change significantly. Anyone that is viewing time spent developing a specific character as an investment based on performance is in for a rude surprise at some point in an MMO. I have yet to play an MMO where class performance is not changed.

[DraconusShade.4590]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> > Tell me this, an MMO has players create a persistent character and provides persistent rewards, this means that players are invested in their character. If the developer continues to shaft a class and is almost bent on pushing it into the ground, I don’t think those people will stick around.

>

> Then they don't stick around ... but let's be clear ... Anet has already made this game in a way that classes don't get the shaft because you can play how you want and be successful in this game.

>

>

 

Ok so I see that you are either deliberately choosing to be adamant in repeating yourself or you are a troll.

 

By being successful in the game do you mean the ability to clear content? Of course you can kill rudimentary AI in game with any class!!!!

Would you say spending more than an hour in a fractal soloing it as a Condi Scourge is successful?

Would you say that being shunned by groups in fractals and raids because literally any other class would be more useful than you as successful?!

 

Clearing content is NOT the benchmark, having fun is. Give me one good reason why the Reaper or the Scourge should not be doing 35K damage in PvE.

In an MMO, having fun with friends, being welcome in group content and contributing to the group without feeling carried or being a liability is success, not killing NPCs.

The day they allow Scourge and Reaper to do 35K DPS in PvE and the day they manage to balance Mesmer in WvW is when I’ll agree that Anet has actually earned their money. Till then they are just a bunch of artists and devs with a beautiful vision whose creation is being destroyed by a rampaging hoard of boars that their balance team is.

 

Oh and if they actually admit that they messed up class design then it is their duty to redo it from the ground up even if it is time consuming because it was their screw up- a screw up despite which the player base continues to support them monetarily in the hopes that they’ll fix their mess.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> > > Tell me this, an MMO has players create a persistent character and provides persistent rewards, this means that players are invested in their character. If the developer continues to shaft a class and is almost bent on pushing it into the ground, I don’t think those people will stick around.

> >

> > Then they don't stick around ... but let's be clear ... Anet has already made this game in a way that classes don't get the shaft because you can play how you want and be successful in this game.

> >

> >

>

> Ok so I see that you are either deliberately choosing to be adamant in repeating yourself or you are a troll.

 

OK .. I see you aren't looking at the many pages and threads where these points and discussions already exist. Maybe you think you are bringing some new points to the discussion that no one has ever seen before ... that's not the case.

> @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> Would you say that being shunned by groups in fractals and raids because literally any other class would be more useful than you as successful?!

I would say that's a choice you have to make ... I don't have that problem because I made good choices on who I team with.

 

> @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> Clearing content is NOT the benchmark, having fun is.

 

Great ... nothing except for your willingness to team with the right people is preventing that. Go forth ... have a good time!

[DraconusShade.4590]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> > > > Tell me this, an MMO has players create a persistent character and provides persistent rewards, this means that players are invested in their character. If the developer continues to shaft a class and is almost bent on pushing it into the ground, I don’t think those people will stick around.

> > >

> > > Then they don't stick around ... but let's be clear ... Anet has already made this game in a way that classes don't get the shaft because you can play how you want and be successful in this game.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Ok so I see that you are either deliberately choosing to be adamant in repeating yourself or you are a troll.

>

> OK .. I see you aren't looking at the many pages and threads where these points and discussions already exist. Maybe you think you are bringing some new points to the discussion that no one has ever seen before ... that's not the case.

>

> > @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> > Clearing content is NOT the benchmark, having fun is.

>

> Great ... nothing except for your willingness to team with the right people is preventing that. Go forth ... have a good time!

 

I saw the link on your signature and your signature itself. I do agree that balancing a class around a theme is an interesting and effective thing to do. The Herald changes seem to have so much passion and interest poured into them unfortunately they don’t seems to have the same passion when they balance Necro. It just feels like for years on end no one at Anet has a passion for the Necro anymore, or any interest in helping it.

 

Now Obtena just tell me this, after reading the theme of the Herald I am very interested in learning about what Anet thinks the themes for the Reaper and Scourge are and how they have managed to implement it in game.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> Now Obtena just tell me this, after reading the theme of the Herald I am very interested in learning about what Anet thinks the themes for the Reaper and Scourge are and how they have managed to implement it in game.

 

Not sure what you want me to tell you ... yeah that would be nice ... if we had a better understanding of themes, we could do two things:

 

1. Make more SENSIBLE suggestions on how to improve it **within** the **Anet determine theme**

2. Make better choices about what specs to play knowing what our individual desires/persuasions are and what the specs offer

 

I have always said that class descriptions are the solution to enabling players to make better choices ... and GW2 suffers from poor class descriptions just as any other. Some players just don't care, as long as they have the 'best' ... those players are going to struggle in this game, because the best isn't rewarded as much as the socially connected player is..

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> well atleast necro is 100% viable in every game mode compared to other classes :)

 

Every profession is 100% viable in every gamemode. Not every profession is able to be optimale in every gamemode. The necromancer isn't more "viable" than other profession, the necromancer lack the ability to specialize in any aspect which limit both it's potential strength and weakness. On another hand, other profession have the ability to specialize letting them truly trade-off defense for offense (and vice versa) in order to maximize their potential. In the grand scheme of thing, the profession that have the ability to maximize it's potential will find easier to add it's strength to an organized group in a "controled environment". While a profession that can't specialize will appear strong individually but end up lackluster in an organized group. (And this is the plight the necromancer have been in since HoT, before HoT it was worse.)

[Anchoku.8142]

Arenanet announced PvE, WvW and PvP would each be split for balancing many months ago and the announcement of Death Magic's "rework" is getting close to a year but PvE has not seen anything I would call a balance patch for a long time. Prior to the big split, Scourge was crippled.

 

Between layoffs, changing leadership, and later problems caused by COVID-19, the pace and scope of change has likely dropped a lot. New content development and maintaining the event schedule may be consuming much more of their available time. Tasks like fixing old problems with mechanics and profession design, and rebalancing PvE, which do not affect income as much, could be shelved indefinitely. I am glad Arenanet is trying to separate game modes for individual balance adjustments, though. We all knew it was impossible to keep them the same because PvE bosses are fundamentally different than PvP players. I think the community figured that out in August 2012. However, I get the feeling the current state of Arenanet and the business environment leave little room for PvE profession balance and skill mechanics changes. Among the last few sets of changes were many that felt less mature and well thought out than in previous years. PvE balance and profession mechanics are probably going to remain as they are for the foreseeable future.

[necromaniac.7629]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> > well atleast necro is 100% viable in every game mode compared to other classes :)

>

> Every profession is 100% viable in every gamemode. Not every profession is able to be optimale in every gamemode. The necromancer isn't more "viable" than other profession, the necromancer lack the ability to specialize in any aspect which limit both it's potential strength and weakness. On another hand, other profession have the ability to specialize letting them truly trade-off defense for offense (and vice versa) in order to maximize their potential. In the grand scheme of thing, the profession that have the ability to maximize it's potential will find easier to add it's strength to an organized group in a "controled environment". While a profession that can't specialize will appear strong individually but end up lackluster in an organized group. (And this is the plight the necromancer have been in since HoT, before HoT it was worse.)

 

I said that as a mesmer main...so yeah. Reaper great in pvp,Core necro great in pvp, Reaper great in raids, Scourge great in raids, every specialization of the class great in wvw and reaper is offmeta in fracs. So i guess i'm just biased that mesmer can't say the same most of these scenarios, i just don't see any problem with the class.

[DraconusShade.4590]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Arenanet announced PvE, WvW and PvP would each be split for balancing many months ago and the announcement of Death Magic's "rework" is getting close to a year but PvE has not seen anything I would call a balance patch for a long time. Prior to the big split, Scourge was crippled.

>

> Between layoffs, changing leadership, and later problems caused by COVID-19, the pace and scope of change has likely dropped a lot. New content development and maintaining the event schedule may be consuming much more of their available time. Tasks like fixing old problems with mechanics and profession design, and rebalancing PvE, which do not affect income as much, could be shelved indefinitely. I am glad Arenanet is trying to separate game modes for individual balance adjustments, though. We all knew it was impossible to keep them the same because PvE bosses are fundamentally different than PvP players. I think the community figured that out in August 2012. However, I get the feeling the current state of Arenanet and the business environment leave little room for PvE profession balance and skill mechanics changes. Among the last few sets of changes were many that felt less mature and well thought out than in previous years. PvE balance and profession mechanics are probably going to remain as they are for the foreseeable future.

 

The problem with that consensus is that profession design and game balance _are_ the game! You can have mountains of content but without interesting and engaging class design coupled with great balance that allows every profession to have a decent role in every game mode, you cannot enjoy that mountain of content, can you?

 

If Anet declares that they are really going to focus on taking a look at all the professions and traits to do major reworks so that every class can have a viable build (some classes by design will excel at certain game modes, the aim here is to make sure that there isn’t any class that no one wants on their team, no class that becomes a liability) in every game mode, I wouldn’t mind if they delay the LS episodes by a few months. I’d much rather have content I can enjoy with classes I enjoy than just content for which I need to play a character I don’t relate to and have no emotional investment in. Let’s face it, MMOs are all about the character, the amount of time you spend on it and the class fantasy.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> > > well atleast necro is 100% viable in every game mode compared to other classes :)

> >

> > Every profession is 100% viable in every gamemode. Not every profession is able to be optimale in every gamemode. The necromancer isn't more "viable" than other profession, the necromancer lack the ability to specialize in any aspect which limit both it's potential strength and weakness. On another hand, other profession have the ability to specialize letting them truly trade-off defense for offense (and vice versa) in order to maximize their potential. In the grand scheme of thing, the profession that have the ability to maximize it's potential will find easier to add it's strength to an organized group in a "controled environment". While a profession that can't specialize will appear strong individually but end up lackluster in an organized group. (And this is the plight the necromancer have been in since HoT, before HoT it was worse.)

>

> I said that as a mesmer main...so yeah. Reaper great in pvp,Core necro great in pvp, Reaper great in raids, Scourge great in raids, every specialization of the class great in wvw and reaper is offmeta in fracs. So i guess i'm just biased that mesmer can't say the same most of these scenarios, i just don't see any problem with the class.

 

I think you're blinded by prejudices.

The necromancer isn't "great" outside of WvW zergs.

 

I'm personally someone that love mesmer's gameplay, and if I had to claim a main profession I'd say mesmer for sure. Now, we are on the necromancer's subforum so it's not really where we should talk about mesmer but, the mesmer performance aren't "bad", it's only the damage that ANet did to the quality of life of it's specialization that's make it feel like it's "bad".

In PvE, the mesmer support is superior to the necromancer's support for endgame purpose (simply because boons like quickness and alacrity are more valued in endgame than barrier). Likewise, the mesmer dps is superior to the necromancer's dps for endgame purpose (The mesmer dps potential is 30% higher than the necromancer's right now).

In PvP, the necromancer is just sturdy which frustrate players that want fast pace fight. The necromancer **need** someone to back him up in this gamemode to achieve something contrary to most professions that just base their performance on their own strength. Put 2 mesmer together in a match and you'll see the PvP subforum burn with mesmer producing to many clone, having to much burst and whatnot (it's not like it's an uncommon sight to see such thread appear there). The necromancer isn't great individually, he just benefit well from the support of other in PvP (which is ironic since he barely benefit from it in PvE).

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

> @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> > > well atleast necro is 100% viable in every game mode compared to other classes :)

> >

> > Every profession is 100% viable in every gamemode. Not every profession is able to be optimale in every gamemode. The necromancer isn't more "viable" than other profession, the necromancer lack the ability to specialize in any aspect which limit both it's potential strength and weakness. On another hand, other profession have the ability to specialize letting them truly trade-off defense for offense (and vice versa) in order to maximize their potential. In the grand scheme of thing, the profession that have the ability to maximize it's potential will find easier to add it's strength to an organized group in a "controled environment". While a profession that can't specialize will appear strong individually but end up lackluster in an organized group. (And this is the plight the necromancer have been in since HoT, before HoT it was worse.)

>

> Reaper great in pvp,Core necro great in pvp, Reaper great in raids, Scourge great in raids, every specialization of the class great in wvw and reaper is offmeta in fracs.

Let me fix this for you:

- Reaper: ok-ish in PvP [just watch platinum+ games, how many Reapers you'll come across, it''s not like they're on par with Revs and Rangers ...]

- Core Necro: ok in PvP [again, watch higher levels, you won't come across _that_ many Necro's there]

- Reaper: absolute worst spec in Raids you can choose!!! [i can for the life of it not find any other spec that performs worse than the Reaper in raids, oh wait, there's one: Core Necro! Hell, I would bet that even Scrapper would be more useful to a team than the Reaper/core Necro]

- Scourge: sub-optimal in raids [only when your team fails, the Scourge really shines!]

- Scourge: Meta in WvW [there's no other word for it, they rule in zergs]

- Reaper/Core-Necro below average in WvW [definitely not _great_ like you put it, if you compare them to _many_ other specs]

- Reaper: _used to be_ offmeta in fracs [you were close on this one, but still, that was in the past. Now you're just better off to swap Soulbeast (or your Banner Slave) for either a DH, Firebrand or another Weaver, and if that's not possible, I would recommend Holo or another Berserker, hell, I would even choose a Daredevil above Reaper these days]

[Josiah.2967]

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"necromaniac.7629" said:

> > > > well atleast necro is 100% viable in every game mode compared to other classes :)

> > >

> > > Every profession is 100% viable in every gamemode. Not every profession is able to be optimale in every gamemode. The necromancer isn't more "viable" than other profession, the necromancer lack the ability to specialize in any aspect which limit both it's potential strength and weakness. On another hand, other profession have the ability to specialize letting them truly trade-off defense for offense (and vice versa) in order to maximize their potential. In the grand scheme of thing, the profession that have the ability to maximize it's potential will find easier to add it's strength to an organized group in a "controled environment". While a profession that can't specialize will appear strong individually but end up lackluster in an organized group. (And this is the plight the necromancer have been in since HoT, before HoT it was worse.)

> >

> > Reaper great in pvp,Core necro great in pvp, Reaper great in raids, Scourge great in raids, every specialization of the class great in wvw and reaper is offmeta in fracs.

> Let me fix this for you:

> - Reaper: ok-ish in PvP [just watch platinum+ games, how many Reapers you'll come across, it''s not like they're on par with Revs and Rangers ...]

> - Core Necro: ok in PvP [again, watch higher levels, you won't come across _that_ many Necro's there]

> - Reaper: absolute worst spec in Raids you can choose!!! [i can for the life of it not find any other spec that performs worse than the Reaper in raids, oh wait, there's one: Core Necro! Hell, I would bet that even Scrapper would be more useful to a team than the Reaper/core Necro]

> - Scourge: sub-optimal in raids [only when your team fails, the Scourge really shines!]

> - Scourge: Meta in WvW [there's no other word for it, they rule in zergs]

> - Reaper/Core-Necro below average in WvW [definitely not _great_ like you put it, if you compare them to _many_ other specs]

> - Reaper: _used to be_ offmeta in fracs [you were close on this one, but still, that was in the past. Now you're just better off to swap Soulbeast (or your Banner Slave) for either a DH, Firebrand or another Weaver, and if that's not possible, I would recommend Holo or another Berserker, hell, I would even choose a Daredevil above Reaper these days]

 

This is what I have seen. I temporarily stopped raiding and started raiding in other games. Everyone would always beg me to play Guardian or Soulbeast (which I do not enjoy and just have to be competitive). Guardian really caries the groups, and is easy to adapt to every situation. When the classes I enjoy are competitive, I might raid again. Depends on how much I get into this MMOs end game. I can tell you I'm not alone. Things are getting stale with the lack of variety.

 

[Methuselah.4376]

Spent a lot of time defending Reaper, even in raids. In fracs I still maintain that it holds up really well but in raids...I've switched to Soulbeast this week and ye the roof just blew off. Sad really, because I really do enjoy Reaper but it's not a nice feeling when you're in a good raid group where your best dps BARELY beats the BS...and sometimes it doesn't even do that.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > Arenanet announced PvE, WvW and PvP would each be split for balancing many months ago and the announcement of Death Magic's "rework" is getting close to a year but PvE has not seen anything I would call a balance patch for a long time. Prior to the big split, Scourge was crippled.

> >

> > Between layoffs, changing leadership, and later problems caused by COVID-19, the pace and scope of change has likely dropped a lot. New content development and maintaining the event schedule may be consuming much more of their available time. Tasks like fixing old problems with mechanics and profession design, and rebalancing PvE, which do not affect income as much, could be shelved indefinitely. I am glad Arenanet is trying to separate game modes for individual balance adjustments, though. We all knew it was impossible to keep them the same because PvE bosses are fundamentally different than PvP players. I think the community figured that out in August 2012. However, I get the feeling the current state of Arenanet and the business environment leave little room for PvE profession balance and skill mechanics changes. Among the last few sets of changes were many that felt less mature and well thought out than in previous years. PvE balance and profession mechanics are probably going to remain as they are for the foreseeable future.

>

> The problem with that consensus is that profession design and game balance _are_ the game! You can have mountains of content but without interesting and engaging class design coupled with great balance that allows every profession to have a decent role in every game mode, you cannot enjoy that mountain of content, can you?

 

Um, what consensus are you talking about? If the last 8 years shows anything, it's the opposite of what you are saying. People are playing this game with the professions they want with the builds they want and being successful IN SPITE of the Profession design and game balance. Seems to me that enough people are enjoying that mountain of content to make this game still viable as a business for Anet ... EVEN if you want to claim the game doesn't have interesting and engaging class design coupled with great balance that allows every profession to have a decent role in every game mode.

 

Sure, for SOME people that's true, but they have either left or ... they simply put up with it because the good things about playing the game outweigh the bad. That's all any game developer can hope for.

[DraconusShade.4590]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > Arenanet announced PvE, WvW and PvP would each be split for balancing many months ago and the announcement of Death Magic's "rework" is getting close to a year but PvE has not seen anything I would call a balance patch for a long time. Prior to the big split, Scourge was crippled.

> > >

> > > Between layoffs, changing leadership, and later problems caused by COVID-19, the pace and scope of change has likely dropped a lot. New content development and maintaining the event schedule may be consuming much more of their available time. Tasks like fixing old problems with mechanics and profession design, and rebalancing PvE, which do not affect income as much, could be shelved indefinitely. I am glad Arenanet is trying to separate game modes for individual balance adjustments, though. We all knew it was impossible to keep them the same because PvE bosses are fundamentally different than PvP players. I think the community figured that out in August 2012. However, I get the feeling the current state of Arenanet and the business environment leave little room for PvE profession balance and skill mechanics changes. Among the last few sets of changes were many that felt less mature and well thought out than in previous years. PvE balance and profession mechanics are probably going to remain as they are for the foreseeable future.

> >

> > The problem with that consensus is that profession design and game balance _are_ the game! You can have mountains of content but without interesting and engaging class design coupled with great balance that allows every profession to have a decent role in every game mode, you cannot enjoy that mountain of content, can you?

>

> Um, what consensus are you talking about? If the last 8 years shows anything, it's the opposite of what you are saying. People are playing this game with the professions they want with the builds they want and being successful IN SPITE of the Profession design and game balance. Seems to me that enough people are enjoying that mountain of content to make this game still viable as a business for Anet ... EVEN if you want to claim the game doesn't have interesting and engaging class design coupled with great balance that allows every profession to have a decent role in every game mode.

>

> Sure, for SOME people that's true, but they have either left or ... they simply put up with it because the good things about playing the game outweigh the bad. That's all any game developer can hope for.

 

That's just lazy development then. They made interesting professions and then are too lazy to balance them. This forces many people to switch professions and gear alts for different types of content. I don't mind some classes being the best at something and those who want to min max to the extreme switching classes. But if I as a casual player have to switch classes just to participate in some content then that's just lazy balancing.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"DraconusShade.4590" said:

> > > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > > Arenanet announced PvE, WvW and PvP would each be split for balancing many months ago and the announcement of Death Magic's "rework" is getting close to a year but PvE has not seen anything I would call a balance patch for a long time. Prior to the big split, Scourge was crippled.

> > > >

> > > > Between layoffs, changing leadership, and later problems caused by COVID-19, the pace and scope of change has likely dropped a lot. New content development and maintaining the event schedule may be consuming much more of their available time. Tasks like fixing old problems with mechanics and profession design, and rebalancing PvE, which do not affect income as much, could be shelved indefinitely. I am glad Arenanet is trying to separate game modes for individual balance adjustments, though. We all knew it was impossible to keep them the same because PvE bosses are fundamentally different than PvP players. I think the community figured that out in August 2012. However, I get the feeling the current state of Arenanet and the business environment leave little room for PvE profession balance and skill mechanics changes. Among the last few sets of changes were many that felt less mature and well thought out than in previous years. PvE balance and profession mechanics are probably going to remain as they are for the foreseeable future.

> > >

> > > The problem with that consensus is that profession design and game balance _are_ the game! You can have mountains of content but without interesting and engaging class design coupled with great balance that allows every profession to have a decent role in every game mode, you cannot enjoy that mountain of content, can you?

> >

> > Um, what consensus are you talking about? If the last 8 years shows anything, it's the opposite of what you are saying. People are playing this game with the professions they want with the builds they want and being successful IN SPITE of the Profession design and game balance. Seems to me that enough people are enjoying that mountain of content to make this game still viable as a business for Anet ... EVEN if you want to claim the game doesn't have interesting and engaging class design coupled with great balance that allows every profession to have a decent role in every game mode.

> >

> > Sure, for SOME people that's true, but they have either left or ... they simply put up with it because the good things about playing the game outweigh the bad. That's all any game developer can hope for.

>

> That's just lazy development then. They made interesting professions and then are too lazy to balance them. This forces many people to switch professions and gear alts for different types of content. I don't mind some classes being the best at something and those who want to min max to the extreme switching classes.

 

If the game is designed to work that way ... lazy or not, it's not going to change because a bunch of players think it's wrong ... or because you attempt to shame Anet into changing it by calling it lazy. There is a reason for it and it's related to Anet delivering on its mandate to let players play how they want and be successful.

 

>But if I as a casual player have to switch classes just to participate in some content then that's just lazy balancing.

 

OK ... and you don't have to do that unless you _decide_ to play with people that are going to make you do that. Clearly, if you decide that path, you can't really complain that it happens to you.

[Armen.1483]

What are you talking about necro is very strong in both. Looking snowcrows golem numbers or counting the "stars" in metabattle doesn't help you understand how classes perform in real game.

 

Reaper in fractals is one of THE BEST dps dealers. It lacks single target damage compared to weaver and sb. Those 2 are on top of every fractal "tier list" because they are stronger in cms because of the single target damage and sinergy with firebrigade. But fractals is not about only CMs, and everywhere else reaper will perform as good if not better than any other dps due to his fast burst aoes.

 

Heal scourge in raids is the ultimate carry. Playing with a heal scourge in your team in raids is like playing an easy mode.

Reaper in raids is not bad either, while it can be a worse dps option than some other dps options, it is the ultimate carry for bad groups. Reaper is safe and can generate boons for himself when your supports don't, which often results reaper being the top dps in bad groups.

 

Necromancer is the most balanced spec for raids and fractals. I don't even know if there is any other class as balanced as necro lol.

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

> @"Armen.1483" said:

> What are you talking about necro is very strong in both. Looking snowcrows golem numbers or counting the "stars" in metabattle doesn't help you understand how classes perform in real game.

>

> Reaper in fractals is one of THE BEST dps dealers. It lacks single target damage compared to weaver and sb. Those 2 are on top of every fractal "tier list" because they are stronger in cms because of the single target damage and sinergy with firebrigade. But fractals is not about only CMs, and everywhere else reaper will perform as good if not better than any other dps due to his fast burst aoes.

Lol, let me guess, you've never _really_ seen (or played with) a good Daredevil, Holo, DH, Berserker, Weaver or SB before, right? They all EASILY outdps the Reaper by a mile in fractals. **And** they all (except for maybe Weaver) have better burst as well!

 

> Heal scourge in raids is the ultimate carry. Playing with a heal scourge in your team in raids is like playing an easy mode.

You only take heal Scourge when you fail or know there's a good chance you're going to ... otherwise you just don't! Simple.

 

> Reaper in raids is not bad either, while it can be a worse dps option than some other dps options, it is the ultimate carry for bad groups. Reaper is safe and can generate boons for himself when your supports don't, which often results reaper being the top dps in bad groups.

_Any_ profession can easily get top dps in bad groups, you just have to be a good/ok player. And if you're really scared, you can always slap on Marauder gear on any other profession, and still outdps even a top-dps Reaper **and** be as (or even more) durable **at the same time**! Whereas a Reaper **has** to choose:

_DPS_ by dealing a certain amount of damage in shroud

**or**

_Survive_ by soaking up damage in shroud and therefore failing to deal enough damage!

 

> Necromancer is the most balanced spec for raids and fractals. I don't even know if there is any other class as balanced as necro lol.

Then nerf all other professions to the level of the - in your eyes - "balanced Necro", I'm fine with that, it's just a lot less likely to happen, cause it takes far more work for ANet to do so.

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

It always funny when someone basically say: "The necromancer is in a good spot, it is the best profession for bad groups".

 

I don't think anyone want to be bad (or even consider themself "bad") and I'm pretty sure no one want to be in a bad group. I'm also pretty sure the ridiculous requirement for Li, AP or whatever on LFG since release of the LFG tool prove my point. Who would be overjoyed to read that their profession of choice is the best to go struggle (ah, sorry, "carry") into a bad group?

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Of course you can be top DPS with reaper. You can be top DPS with everything you want. if you try hard. For the joke I've already been TOP DPS with SB/SB daredevil, diviner chrono, trailblazer FB, in strike missions ...

 

The main reason you can easily be top DPS with Reaper is because you generate alone enough quickness/might/precision/vulnerability and MASSIVE cleave

It doesn't always mean all others players are bad or others classes are bad, but may be that you don't have support or the support is bad, no might, quickness, fury etc.

 

I LOVE Reaper for Open World and WvW, it's my main for Story, events, etc, because yes

>Necromancer is the most balanced spec

But you don't want "balanced spec" in fractals/raids, you want buffers/supports and DPS, you want to share the roles and optimize; not selfish DPS that buff itself alone. This is a MMO, this is cooperation.

Obviously you can go fractals or raids with reapers; even 5 reapers in CMs and perform very well; but if you want to optimize you should objectively find better solutions.

[Anchoku.8142]

Necro is the profession most negatively impacted by Defiance.

* It is a debuff-heavy profession and control-type debuffs do not work and have a reduced value only when the Defiance can be broken.

* Shroud does not provide total immunity and rejects incoming heals even though it provides frequent immunity to low and medium incoming damage and can shave a large chunk off of bursts. It is an interesting mechanic but ultimately works differently than every other profession's defense mechanics.

* Necro has little to offer besides barrier. Barrier is a strong safety net but, if it is not needed, Necro has nothing else of value besides Epidemic, which is also situational.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Armen.1483" said:

> What are you talking about necro is very strong in both. Looking snowcrows golem numbers or counting the "stars" in metabattle doesn't help you understand how classes perform in real game.

>

> Reaper in fractals is one of THE BEST dps dealers. It lacks single target damage compared to weaver and sb. Those 2 are on top of every fractal "tier list" because they are stronger in cms because of the single target damage and sinergy with firebrigade. But fractals is not about only CMs, and everywhere else reaper will perform as good if not better than any other dps due to his fast burst aoes.

>

> Heal scourge in raids is the ultimate carry. Playing with a heal scourge in your team in raids is like playing an easy mode.

 

Imagine having to play a carry build because your group is so kitten bad. Lol.

 

> Reaper in raids is not bad either, while it can be a worse dps option than some other dps options, it is the ultimate carry for bad groups. Reaper is safe and can generate boons for himself when your supports don't, which often results reaper being the top dps in bad groups.

>

> Necromancer is the most balanced spec for raids and fractals. I don't even know if there is any other class as balanced as necro lol.

 

Yeah you could see it that way. Necro being the only balanced class, but that's nothing new.

People thought about this a long time ago.

But why are builds that already do comparable dps, get dps buffs then instead of self buffs.

 

Also why is necro such a bad dueler in PvP modes?

I lacks important boons. While other classes have much wider access to boons, more different boons.

+ Right now you basically can't play spite reaper in pvp modes, no condition clears. Which greatly reduces necro's selfbuff with might (it's basically 0)

[Armen.1483]

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

 

> Lol, let me guess, you've never _really_ seen (or played with) a good Daredevil, Holo, DH, Berserker, Weaver or SB before, right? They all EASILY outdps the Reaper by a mile in fractals. **And** they all (except for maybe Weaver) have better burst as well!

Maybe it's you that is new to reaper ? Can you backup your words ? What do you mean by outdpsing by **mile **? What is a mile to you ? Is it so much that it is more important than the safety and self sustain that reaper can have ? You can easily get 50k burst with reaper in fractals. 50k single target burst (where reaper doesn't shine) is not bad to me considering that you just push several buttons and never care about dying or your team being badly positioned. So many times My pugs died while I was chilling pushing reaper shroud 4 while drinking my coffee. It is why we play reaper, it is why we love reaper, it is why reaper is balanced. Ofc you can finish a t4 run a little bit faster with a healless full meta comp, if you have a good static it is a good thing to do. However have you ever seen a lfg group that doesn't have a healer ? No, because playing with a healer is safer (but way less group dps), so ppl chose to play slowly but surely, which makes running fractals with healers so common.

Reaper is the same you chose reaper not for "top dps" but for chill play. And even there it happened to me so many time to be top dps in fractal pugs while I wasn't even grinding for dps.

Also reaper is very easy to play and unlike other dps classes new players can easily play reaper from the start and not be complete garbage as those random weavers (btw you should rather play tempest dps in regular t4s not weaver if you grind for dps so much) that join pugs and do absolutely nothing.

If reaper is to given more dps, his survivability must be cut in half as tradeoff, and me along with many other players don't want it.

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Armen.1483" said:

> > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

>

> > Lol, let me guess, you've never _really_ seen (or played with) a good Daredevil, Holo, DH, Berserker, Weaver or SB before, right? They all EASILY outdps the Reaper by a mile in fractals. **And** they all (except for maybe Weaver) have better burst as well!

> Maybe it's you that is new to reaper ? Can you backup your words ? What do you mean by outdpsing by **mile **? What is a mile to you ? Is it so much that it is more important than the safety and self sustain that reaper can have ? You can easily get 50k burst with reaper in fractals. 50k single target burst (where reaper doesn't shine) is not bad to me considering that you just push several buttons and never care about dying or your team being badly positioned. So many times My pugs died while I was chilling pushing reaper shroud 4 while drinking my coffee. It is why we play reaper, it is why we love reaper, it is why reaper is balanced. Ofc you can finish a t4 run a little bit faster with a healless full meta comp, if you have a good static it is a good thing to do. However have you ever seen a lfg group that doesn't have a healer ? No, because playing with a healer is safer (but way less group dps), so ppl chose to play slowly but surely, which makes running fractals with healers so common.

> Reaper is the same you chose reaper not for "top dps" but for chill play. And even there it happened to me so many time to be top dps in fractal pugs while I wasn't even grinding for dps.

> Also reaper is very easy to play and unlike other dps classes new players can easily play reaper from the start and not be complete garbage as those random weavers (btw you should rather play tempest dps in regular t4s not weaver if you grind for dps so much) that join pugs and do absolutely nothing.

> If reaper is to given more dps, his survivability must be cut in half as tradeoff, and me along with many other players don't want it.

>

I don't know about half ... but what is certain is that based on communications we have from Anet, there is a link between DPS and survivability on Necro when they decide to make class changes.

 

What most of these people fail to understand is that this link is a fundamental aspect of the class, so there ISN'T likely to be some massive boost to DPS at the expense of survivability without a significant deviation from the theme ... and anyone that doesn't think theme is important to Anet isn't paying much attention to how they change classes in this game.