Core Necro shroud is an issue. It's making people look like gods

[Zero.3871]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > Lower the inherent -50% incoming damage and condition damage while in Death Shroud down to something like -33%. Death Shroud is too tanky post megabalance and they can cast from range unlike reaper which needs to dive bomb into melee range where shroud will get immediately cleaved away.

> >

> > Again, cc/stunlock can kill your whole LF bar pretty quick, and then it's squishy mortal time.

>

> https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/necromancer

>

> On Meta Core Necro with full HP and a full bar of Life Force they have 64,804 Effective HP when you factor in the Death Shroud -50% all incoming damage boost. And this isn't counting Protection, which they gain a ton of through traits

>

> 64,804.

>

> Considering necromancers have significant up time on protection, for power builds if you assume a VERY conservative 33% up time on protection that's 71,141 effective HP. Oh and the necro is almost certainly healing and odds are it'll get two Consume Conditions off before it's finally dead. Averaging for 3 conditions that puts us at an effective health pool of 86,451. And I haven't even touched the healing per second provided by Vampiric Aura and regeneration uptime. Running some very basic combat simulations you can expect 383 healing per second from regeneration like Mark of Blood and Vampiric Aura. That's almost twice as much incoming healing per second as actual healing skills. If you assume 40-60 seconds of combat, which is not unrealistic especially 1v1 against a necromancer that's an additional 15,320 HP players need to punch through for 40 seconds or 22,980 for 60 seconds. But let's go with the conservative option.

>

> **That is potentially a 101,771 damage players need to do to actually kill a core necro right now.**

>

> And we aren't even talking their capacity to refill their life shroud bar. That's calculated based on ONE bar of Life Shroud. Calculate for two full bars of shroud and we're looking at **137,258 damage** you need to do to kill one necro. And yeah, shroud doesn't last for ever and there is degeneration on it. It still takes 34 seconds for death shroud to run out on it's own.

>

> And here's the thing, all that defensive capability on core necro was ALREADY top tier in a setting where everyone was doing 50-100% more DPS than they are.

>

> Meta Condition Mirage is doing 1,100 damage per second on PvP stats now.

>

> Meta Daredevil is doing 2,380 damage per second on PvP stats now.

>

> Meta Condition Herald is doing 2,600 damage per second on PvP stats now.

>

> Core necro's survivability _was already balanced_ in an where everyone was running around with 50-100% more DPS. Shroud is literally not built for this game's current level of damage.

 

e.g. a daredevil can dodge multiple times and negate every dmg he would get while dodging , so the effective dmg players need to do, is infinit to kill him.

same for every class with invulns, dodge-skills, invis, block mechanics, cause necro has no access to any of those. you try to say necromancer is op without any comparison to other classes. if you would compare you would realize that necro hasnt any other defense mechanics then being a big hp pool. how do you want to valuate other mechanics like blocks, invulns, ....? i can put in some personal ratings like you and every other class has even more effective dmg that need to be done to kill them.

how do you want to balance lifepoints in comparison to blocks, dodges, invulns...

 

you are just claiming that necro defense is superiour while in fact you have no prove by your numbers.

 

i dont say necro is op or not. i just say your comment lacks relevance since its just your personal opinion without any relevant comparison.

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"Zero.3871"

you missed the most important point.

He has proven mathematically with numbers that you dont kill necro 1v1. its irrelevent how much you value dodges of other classes, necro doesnt die without any active play from necro player.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> @"Zero.3871"

> you missed the most important point.

> He has proven mathematically with numbers that you dont kill necro 1v1.

 

The why do people manage it all the time?

 

>its irrelevent how much you value dodges of other classes

It's really not.

 

>, necro doesnt die without any active play from necro player.

So where do the LF and protection come from?

 

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Zero.3871"

> > you missed the most important point.

> > He has proven mathematically with numbers that you dont kill necro 1v1.

>

> The why do people manage it all the time?

>

> >its irrelevent how much you value dodges of other classes

> It's really not.

>

> >, necro doesnt die without any active play from necro player.

> So where do the LF and protection come from?

>

>

 

pulsing prot in shroud, prot on every well dont have to aim it.

Lf fro triggering marks, dont have to hit them, from eating conditions. Pulses in shroud for you dont have to do anything.

Just off the top of my head

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Zero.3871"

> > > you missed the most important point.

> > > He has proven mathematically with numbers that you dont kill necro 1v1.

> >

> > The why do people manage it all the time?

> >

> > >its irrelevent how much you value dodges of other classes

> > It's really not.

> >

> > >, necro doesnt die without any active play from necro player.

> > So where do the LF and protection come from?

> >

> >

>

> pulsing prot in shroud, prot on every well dont have to aim it.

> Lf fro triggering marks, dont have to hit them, from eating conditions. Pulses in shroud for you dont have to do anything.

> Just off the top of my head

 

Pulsing protection is shroud only comes from actually applying conditions to enemies consistently , consistently removing conditions , or a combination of both. If you don't actively keep up the pressure then it will fall off. If you take this trait you also can't take unholy sanctuary.

 

You have to be inside the well for the protection to be granted. It gives it to everyone who is there at the time. If you miss yourself or chose to place it else where you get nothing.

 

From eating conditions you mean unholy martyr? If you take this you can't take vampiric rituals so no prot on wells. Also it only triggers when you leave shroud. Not to mention the cost of pulling up to 5 conditions to yourself. The benefit of a potential 9% LF doesn't always outweigh the cost of those 5 pulled conditions.

 

Marks need to go from on trigger to on hit. You still need to place the marks though.

 

Everything you mentioned required active input/play from the necromancer player.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Zero.3871"

> > > > you missed the most important point.

> > > > He has proven mathematically with numbers that you dont kill necro 1v1.

> > >

> > > The why do people manage it all the time?

> > >

> > > >its irrelevent how much you value dodges of other classes

> > > It's really not.

> > >

> > > >, necro doesnt die without any active play from necro player.

> > > So where do the LF and protection come from?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > pulsing prot in shroud, prot on every well dont have to aim it.

> > Lf fro triggering marks, dont have to hit them, from eating conditions. Pulses in shroud for you dont have to do anything.

> > Just off the top of my head

>

> Pulsing protection is shroud only comes from actually applying conditions to enemies consistently , consistently removing conditions , or a combination of both. If you don't actively keep up the pressure then it will fall off. If you take this trait you also can't take unholy sanctuary.

>

> You have to be inside the well for the protection to be granted. It gives it to everyone who is there at the time. If you miss yourself or chose to place it else where you get nothing.

>

> From eating conditions you mean unholy martyr? If you take this you can't take vampiric rituals so no prot on wells. Also it only triggers when you leave shroud. Not to mention the cost of pulling up to 5 conditions to yourself. The benefit of a potential 9% LF doesn't always outweigh the cost of those 5 pulled conditions.

>

> Marks need to go from on trigger to on hit. You still need to place the marks though.

>

> Everything you mentioned required active input/play from the necromancer player.

 

My effective health is calculated with only a small percentage of protection up time, only 33% which off meta necros could be pumping up even higher.

[Brimstone Jack.3462]

This is exactly the type of conversation among those who know more than me that I was hoping for. Cheers, y'all.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > @"Zero.3871"

> > > > > you missed the most important point.

> > > > > He has proven mathematically with numbers that you dont kill necro 1v1.

> > > >

> > > > The why do people manage it all the time?

> > > >

> > > > >its irrelevent how much you value dodges of other classes

> > > > It's really not.

> > > >

> > > > >, necro doesnt die without any active play from necro player.

> > > > So where do the LF and protection come from?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > pulsing prot in shroud, prot on every well dont have to aim it.

> > > Lf fro triggering marks, dont have to hit them, from eating conditions. Pulses in shroud for you dont have to do anything.

> > > Just off the top of my head

> >

> > Pulsing protection is shroud only comes from actually applying conditions to enemies consistently , consistently removing conditions , or a combination of both. If you don't actively keep up the pressure then it will fall off. If you take this trait you also can't take unholy sanctuary.

> >

> > You have to be inside the well for the protection to be granted. It gives it to everyone who is there at the time. If you miss yourself or chose to place it else where you get nothing.

> >

> > From eating conditions you mean unholy martyr? If you take this you can't take vampiric rituals so no prot on wells. Also it only triggers when you leave shroud. Not to mention the cost of pulling up to 5 conditions to yourself. The benefit of a potential 9% LF doesn't always outweigh the cost of those 5 pulled conditions.

> >

> > Marks need to go from on trigger to on hit. You still need to place the marks though.

> >

> > Everything you mentioned required active input/play from the necromancer player.

>

> My effective health is calculated with only a small percentage of protection up time, only 33% which off meta necros could be pumping up shroud up even higher.

 

Because blood magic is currently over tuned compared to the rest since vampiric rituals and life siphoning didn't see any nerfs.

 

Regarding your calculation the effective health hasnt really gone up that much compared to the pre hot era when there was much less damage and CC in the game. Also while the number may seem impressive it's not all that different when you factor in evades, blocks etc compared to other classes.

 

There are also some over caveats that make the premise of the post slightly unrealistic. There are many things in the game that on paper are incredibly strong.

 

Sure certain things could see a nerf but the mindset that developed due to massively increased damage of "just train necro. Will die no matter what anyway. Easy kill" needs to change. The play around shroud bring up or down has pretty much gone, it's just barrell through.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lower shroud regen by 15% and as mortalus said drop shroud damage reduction to 33%. 50% damage reduction is a product of powercreep that somehow missed the nerf hammer during the power reduction patch. Just another issue that has raised from a blanket nerf to all power without any consideration of how strong sustain type mechanics like this would be if not adjusted to the new damage lvs. Lastly necro's ability to revive allys and itself needs to be adjusted as well.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Brimstone Jack.3462" said:

> This is exactly the type of conversation among those who know more than me that I was hoping for. Cheers, y'all.

 

+1

 

humble

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> 50% damage reduction is a product of powercreep that somehow missed the nerf hammer during the power reduction patch.

 

Yet it's been there since the game started and pre hot? when damage and CC was overall lower.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > 50% damage reduction is a product of powercreep that somehow missed the nerf hammer during the power reduction patch.

>

> Yet it's been there since the game started and pre hot? when damage and CC was overall lower.

 

Whether it was or wasn't does not indicate whether it's a powercrept value or not. With damage being what it is post patch 50% reduction is to high.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > 50% damage reduction is a product of powercreep that somehow missed the nerf hammer during the power reduction patch.

> >

> > Yet it's been there since the game started and pre hot? when damage and CC was overall lower.

>

> Whether it was or wasn't does not indicate whether it's a powercrept value or not. With damage being what it is post patch 50% reduction is to high.

 

You're missing the point. How can it be too high when it was a fine value when damage was lower than now and there was less CC than now? Relatively speaking compared to then the power of the damage reduction is still lower than then. Just not as low as the "focus necro, easy kill, can't avoid anything" power crept damage days.

 

The only thing that's gone up since then on necro is LF generation on a very select few things, which along with blood magic life siphon, could use a nerf. Comparatively speaking necro defences aren't that much higher than at the start of the game, or pre HoT. They just aren't irrelevant like they were during the high damage, boom spam days.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > 50% damage reduction is a product of powercreep that somehow missed the nerf hammer during the power reduction patch.

> > >

> > > Yet it's been there since the game started and pre hot? when damage and CC was overall lower.

> >

> > Whether it was or wasn't does not indicate whether it's a powercrept value or not. With damage being what it is post patch 50% reduction is to high.

>

> You're missing the point. How can it be too high when it was a fine value when damage was lower than now and there was less CC than now? Relatively speaking compared to then the power of the damage reduction is still lower than then. Just not as low as the "focus necro, easy kill, can't avoid anything" power crept damage days.

>

> The only thing that's gone up since then on necro is LF generation on a very select few things, which along with blood magic life siphon, could use a nerf. Comparatively speaking necro defences aren't that much higher than at the start of the game, or pre HoT. They just aren't irrelevant like they were during the high damage, boom spam days.

 

Damage is lower for most classes across the board after the MegaBalance patch than it was in Core GW2.

 

 

7k Backstabs without even using Assassin's signet, 6k backstabs on heavy armor. Good luck getting that level of damage now even with Assassin's Signet. Also note the 5-8k Heart Seekers when below 25%. This is in conquest, running Berserker's Amulet, which meta DP Daredevil is ALSO running and not getting half this level of damage. Pre Heart of Thorns GW2 PvP was higher damage and burstier than it is now.

[rng.1024]

> @"Sunshine.5014" said:

> The problem is with the base HP between classes. The difference between 11k base and 18k base is like 700 extra stats. It's the base HP that gives Necro so much sustain power, since their trait heals by HP percentage.

>

> We have enough thing to differentiate the classes: namely, armor classes. That should be enough. All the classes should have the same 15k HP base.

 

It's not the base HP, else this would have been an issue before HoT - it wasn't.

 

It's the inherent 50% damage reduction on shroud. In the previous meta it worked fine because there was dmg all around, but now with shaves across the entire board the 50% efficacy is way higher, allowing the necro to not only stay in shroud much longer than they used to but also tank power/condi much more effectively.

 

 

[Burnfall.9573]

-response-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOWSJPgVD5w

 

UniQ is a very well skilled Thief Profession player and yes, Thief can still do very high damage even after the recent patch. I am very impressed with UniQ gameplay and flawless experience,

 

-by the way, good choice of music UniQ- Well Done!

 

(asking for Necromancer Profession nerfs is like asking Thief to make Necromancer an easy target all over again) No Way!!

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> -response-

>

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOWSJPgVD5w

>

> UniQ is a very well skilled Thief Profession player and yes, Thief can still do very high damage even after the recent patch. I am very impressed with UniQ gameplay and experience, Well Done!

>

> -by the way, good choice of music UniQ-

>

> (asking for Necromancer Profession nerfs is like asking Thief to make Necromancer an easy target all over again)

 

Man u are coming across as very bias hypocritical, it's not even funny. U talk about toxic builds constantly and how broken thief mechanics are but are no different than the rest as u defend a obviously overperforming mechanic because u play the class. It's obvious post patch shroud is over performing and u can't pretend u dont see it.

How much effective hp does necro have on the regular with shroud combined? So u tally that up and tell me that the 3.5k-4k backstab that the power build thief/DD are now doing are in line with that kinda sustain, keep in mind the builds meant for high burst hit and run like most rogue types. U are really showing people since this big patch through ur posts that u don't stand for anything more than any other thief hating player.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > -response-

> >

> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOWSJPgVD5w

> >

> > UniQ is a very well skilled Thief Profession player and yes, Thief can still do very high damage even after the recent patch. I am very impressed with UniQ gameplay and experience, Well Done!

> >

> > -by the way, good choice of music UniQ-

> >

> > (asking for Necromancer Profession nerfs is like asking Thief to make Necromancer an easy target all over again)

>

> Man u are coming across as very bias hypocritical, it's not even funny. U talk about toxic builds constantly and how broken thief mechanics are but are no different than the rest as u defend a obviously overperforming mechanic because u play the class. It's obvious post patch shroud is over performing and u can't pretend u dont see it.

> How much effective hp does necro have on the regular with shroud combined? So u tally that up and tell me that the 3.5k-4k backstab that the power build thief/DD are now doing are in line with that kinda sustain, keep in mind the builds meant for high burst hit and run like most rogue types. U are really showing people since this big patch through ur posts that u don't stand for anything more than any other thief hating player.

 

- **correction**

 

1. first of all, i am not a bias hyporcrite

2. secondly, i've always stood for what i believe in which includes Toxic Bad Design

3. third, this thread is about Necromancer shroud

4. forth i posted that UniQ video to showcase that even after the patch, Thief can still do high damages

5. Necromancer lore is Death- Grenth Is A God thus benefiting Necromancer being like one too

6. A god like Profession is not easily killed and that is where i stand

7. Lastly, i am not a 'Thief Hater', I Hate Their Toxic Design Influence In The Game, not the player

8. I encourage players healthy competitive experiences, that will never change

9. Nothing else to it!!

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Sry man as soon as u threw the hey this is a thread about necro's not thief at me I stopped reading ur reply. U do realize it was u not me who as always brought thief and a vid into this necro discussion, like u always do to attempt to spread ur agenda. Like seriously lol.

I understand why some people hate on rogue archetype as they do the same in every mmo forum no matter the iteration of rogue that mmo uses the complaints are about the same stuff. I can also equally understand that theres a large player base that enjoys the rogue types and their playstyle. What I don't understand is how thief mechanics seem so toxic to u when necros mechanics as it is right now isnt? Its blatently gotten into the hard carry realm as in once a necro takes heat and gets low on hp they simply shroud up and continually repeat doing so due to shroud regen also overperforming causing the need for multiple opponents including burst specs to down in any amount of time that wouldnt be considered a waste of time. How is that not toxic design to u?

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Sry man as soon as u threw the hey this is a thread about necro's not thief at me I stopped reading ur reply. U do realize it was u not me who as always brought thief and a vid into this necro discussion, like u always do to attempt to spread ur agenda. Lije seriously lol

 

no worries, i understand the quick reaction lol

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/necromancer

>

> On Meta Core Necro with full HP and a full bar of Life Force they have 64,804 Effective HP when you factor in the Death Shroud -50% all incoming damage boost. And this isn't counting Protection, which they gain a ton of through traits

>

> 64,804.

>

> Considering necromancers have significant up time on protection, for power builds if you assume a VERY conservative 33% up time on protection that's 71,141 effective HP. Oh and the necro is almost certainly healing and odds are it'll get two Consume Conditions off before it's finally dead. Averaging for 3 conditions that puts us at an effective health pool of 86,451. And I haven't even touched the healing per second provided by Vampiric Aura and regeneration uptime. Running some very basic combat simulations you can expect 383 healing per second from regeneration like Mark of Blood and Vampiric Aura. That's almost twice as much incoming healing per second as actual healing skills. If you assume 40-60 seconds of combat, which is not unrealistic especially 1v1 against a necromancer that's an additional 15,320 HP players need to punch through for 40 seconds or 22,980 for 60 seconds. But let's go with the conservative option.

>

> **That is potentially a 101,771 damage players need to do to actually kill a core necro right now.**

>

> And we aren't even talking their capacity to refill their life shroud bar. That's calculated based on ONE bar of Life Shroud. Calculate for two full bars of shroud and we're looking at **137,258 damage** you need to do to kill one necro. And yeah, shroud doesn't last for ever and there is degeneration on it. It still takes 34 seconds for death shroud to run out on it's own.

>

> And here's the thing, all that defensive capability on core necro was ALREADY top tier in a setting where everyone was doing 50-100% more DPS than they are.

>

> Meta Condition Mirage is doing 1,100 damage per second on PvP stats now.

>

> Meta Daredevil is doing 2,380 damage per second on PvP stats now.

>

> Meta Condition Herald is doing 2,600 damage per second on PvP stats now.

>

> Core necro's survivability _was already balanced_ in an where everyone was running around with 50-100% more DPS. Shroud is literally not mathmatically built for this game's current level of damage.

 

The main issue of your argumentation is that you do not offer a point of comparaison. You are only giving the "effective health pool" of the necromancer. Also, the way you estimate "dps" isn't especially argumented. PvP isn't about dps, it's about burst and to down a necromancer you only need to be able to deal 40k damage over 10 seconds (max vitality/perma prot) which mean, with your numbers, that a meta DD coupled with a meta herald can easily do it even without "bursting". Now if you think that someone that invest it's stats and traits into being tanky shouldn't be able to survive against someone that do not then the problem is your mindset.

 

The numbers are interesting in themselve but you can make numbers say whatever you want (it's true in game like it is IRL).

 

The problem of the necromancer isn't it's effective health pool. The problem of the necromancer is that it does have relatively long periode where it's health pool is shielded. Where does this long periode of health pool shielded come from? It come from the need to have enough time to put it's special mechanism to work. So the true reason for this high eHP is that the shroud offer both offense and defense and that ANet made it so that the necromancer have to use it's shroud for both. This is not a problematic that other profession face.

 

I would say that contrary to what you say, shroud is built for this game's current level of damage. This is litterally the level of damage on which it can strive and it show since otherwise nobody would be there crying about it.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/necromancer

> >

> > On Meta Core Necro with full HP and a full bar of Life Force they have 64,804 Effective HP when you factor in the Death Shroud -50% all incoming damage boost. And this isn't counting Protection, which they gain a ton of through traits

> >

> > 64,804.

> >

> > Considering necromancers have significant up time on protection, for power builds if you assume a VERY conservative 33% up time on protection that's 71,141 effective HP. Oh and the necro is almost certainly healing and odds are it'll get two Consume Conditions off before it's finally dead. Averaging for 3 conditions that puts us at an effective health pool of 86,451. And I haven't even touched the healing per second provided by Vampiric Aura and regeneration uptime. Running some very basic combat simulations you can expect 383 healing per second from regeneration like Mark of Blood and Vampiric Aura. That's almost twice as much incoming healing per second as actual healing skills. If you assume 40-60 seconds of combat, which is not unrealistic especially 1v1 against a necromancer that's an additional 15,320 HP players need to punch through for 40 seconds or 22,980 for 60 seconds. But let's go with the conservative option.

> >

> > **That is potentially a 101,771 damage players need to do to actually kill a core necro right now.**

> >

> > And we aren't even talking their capacity to refill their life shroud bar. That's calculated based on ONE bar of Life Shroud. Calculate for two full bars of shroud and we're looking at **137,258 damage** you need to do to kill one necro. And yeah, shroud doesn't last for ever and there is degeneration on it. It still takes 34 seconds for death shroud to run out on it's own.

> >

> > And here's the thing, all that defensive capability on core necro was ALREADY top tier in a setting where everyone was doing 50-100% more DPS than they are.

> >

> > Meta Condition Mirage is doing 1,100 damage per second on PvP stats now.

> >

> > Meta Daredevil is doing 2,380 damage per second on PvP stats now.

> >

> > Meta Condition Herald is doing 2,600 damage per second on PvP stats now.

> >

> > Core necro's survivability _was already balanced_ in an where everyone was running around with 50-100% more DPS. Shroud is literally not mathmatically built for this game's current level of damage.

>

> The main issue of your argumentation is that you do not offer a point of comparaison. You are only giving the "effective health pool" of the necromancer. Also, the way you estimate "dps" isn't especially argumented. PvP isn't about dps, it's about burst and to down a necromancer you only need to be able to deal 40k damage over 10 seconds (max vitality/perma prot) which mean, with your numbers, that a meta DD coupled with a meta herald can easily do it even without "bursting". Now if you think that someone that invest it's stats and traits into being tanky shouldn't be able to survive against someone that do not then the problem is your mindset.

>

> The numbers are interesting in themselve but you can make numbers say whatever you want (it's true in game like it is IRL).

>

> The problem of the necromancer isn't it's effective health pool. The problem of the necromancer is that it does have relatively long periode where it's health pool is shielded. Where does this long periode of health pool shielded come from? It come from the need to have enough time to put it's special mechanism to work. So the true reason for this high eHP is that the shroud offer both offense and defense and that ANet made it so that the necromancer have to use it's shroud for both. This is not a problematic that other profession face.

>

> I would say that contrary to what you say, shroud is built for this game's current level of damage. This is litterally the level of damage on which it can strive and it show since otherwise nobody would be there crying about it.

 

I'll deal with your post more in depth when I get home but for starters just a bit ago I posted a 2014 SPvP video showcasing the significantly higher damage numbers we saw back then compared to now even of the same Berserkers stats. Damage is lower than it has ever been in game. So you're just objectively wrong that's this is the same as core in terms of damage values.

[Axl.8924]

Truth be told that team really destroyed that necro real easy. Sure in 1v1 situations its a lot harder, but considering its survivability, in 5v5 seems weak enough to me.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Zero.3871"

> > > > you missed the most important point.

> > > > He has proven mathematically with numbers that you dont kill necro 1v1.

> > >

> > > The why do people manage it all the time?

> > >

> > > >its irrelevent how much you value dodges of other classes

> > > It's really not.

> > >

> > > >, necro doesnt die without any active play from necro player.

> > > So where do the LF and protection come from?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > pulsing prot in shroud, prot on every well dont have to aim it.

> > Lf fro triggering marks, dont have to hit them, from eating conditions. Pulses in shroud for you dont have to do anything.

> > Just off the top of my head

>

> Pulsing protection is shroud only comes from actually applying conditions to enemies consistently , consistently removing conditions , or a combination of both. If you don't actively keep up the pressure then it will fall off. If you take this trait you also can't take unholy sanctuary.

>

> You have to be inside the well for the protection to be granted. It gives it to everyone who is there at the time. If you miss yourself or chose to place it else where you get nothing.

>

> From eating conditions you mean unholy martyr? If you take this you can't take vampiric rituals so no prot on wells. Also it only triggers when you leave shroud. Not to mention the cost of pulling up to 5 conditions to yourself. The benefit of a potential 9% LF doesn't always outweigh the cost of those 5 pulled conditions.

>

> Marks need to go from on trigger to on hit. You still need to place the marks though.

>

> Everything you mentioned required active input/play from the necromancer player.

 

Shroud removal -> carapace per condi removed. in shroud pulsing, spectral walk pulsing and 1 well is pulsing.

Unholy sanctuary is not needed, I prefer corrupted fervor expecially since every stack of condi counts for 1 stack of carapace, 4 vuln will give 4 carapace stacks for example, if you get ganked and throw well, you insta gain full stacks of carapace each pulse.

With well trait and pulsing trait shroud prot thingy you get 100% uptime on protection, ez pez. And the only class that can actually get rid of this thing is IH mirage with sword becouse its instane uptime followed by pulsing.

[Burnfall.9573]

so much '137,258 damage you need to do to kill one necro'

 

 

-nothing could've save the Necromancer-

 

 

/Mesmer says hello