Raknar.4735

Probably the Battle on the Breachmaker for me. It was a Meta-event / boss battle during Scarlet‘s assault on LA. It also had a great theme and was one of the first battles to introduce the "color system" (together with TT, which came out a bit earlier), that has been reused in many fights that came after it (VG, Ooze Pit in Grothmar etc.).

Councillor is the UK / british english version, while councilor is the american one (just like armour/armor). Neither one is wrong or the correct one, but given that the other councillors of the Arcane Council use the BE version of the title, Vark should so, too, just to be consistent.

»I don‘t get it.«- Every stealth class in any game

I‘d like more body types for every race, but I don‘t know how hard those would be to include, as armor mapping on bodies could result in problems.

> @"Pifil.5193" said: > > @"Ameepa.6793" said: > > > @"Tzarakiel.7490" said: > > > You know scythes have never been used as weapons in reality. The closest people ever got were warpicks, which are basically sharp/spiked hammers. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe > > > > "Farming tools such as the scythe and pitchfork have frequently been used as a weapon by those who could not afford or did not have access to more expensive weapons such as pikes, swords, or later, guns." > > > > That section has no citations but it's worth noting the "could not afford or did not have access to" part. That strongly implies that they are inferior to other weapons, which they are. Being an inferior weapon doesn‘t mean scythes were never used as weapons in reality, like @"Tzarakiel.7490" claimed. Flails and scythes were prevalent weapons on the peasant side during the German Peasants' War for example. The same thing extends to armour. Only few were able to start out wearing plated gear, so many had to resort to inferior armour, buying new pieces bit by bit after recieving payment. Edit: @"Ameepa.6793" another interesting detail about the reforging: after the peasant wars, reforging a normal scythe into a Sturmsense / warscythe was made illegal with a death sentence as punishment!

> @"Aerick Blackmoore.8167" said: > What about a Tengu hero, Talon Silverwing? Fits within Cantha. Weapon could be either Daggers or Greatsword,with Shout like abilities Don‘t think he has a big enough legend. The only noteworthy thing we know about him is that he participated in the Tengu Wars and lost to a human, General Zhan.

Personally, adding skins that interest me, e.g. wolf shaman set, new armor skins. Their instanced nature, when i vastly prefer content with massive amounts of players (the first M ;) ), their lacking rewards as well as not being fun to me prevent it from being content I want to repeat. So the only way to lure me into them would be skins I want.

I‘m once again here to request the [Cat-Ear Hood Skin](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cat-Ear_Hood_Skin) without cat ears.

Yeah, I'm also waiting for a raven cloak / a feathered cloak! (With a similiar shape as the Herald of Aurene Cape) Edit: The forum also has a dedicated thread for gemstore requests [https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/348/gemstore-requests-new-items-items-offered-again-merged](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/348/gemstore-requests-new-items-items-offered-again-merged)

SAB kinda already works like that (resetting progression to 0 the first time you enter), so a precursor for roguelike content is already there. Having a tower with upgrades based on the own class sounds fun. I‘d enjoy it.

> @"HotDelirium.7984" said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > @"BrotherofShadows.7426" said: > > > What was the deal with, just out of the blue, Primordus suddenly awaking and bursting lots of flame monsters out everywhere? It struck me like lightning from a clear sky. > > > > > > Last chapter ended with Ryland and Bangar becoming Icebrood and Ryland running off with Jormag to some unknown place, with us having to try and track the two of them down. I was pumped and ready to give chase and then all of a sudden they're just like "Oh haha, another Elder Dragon woke up and now the world is ending =)" Why? Isn't the awakening of an ELDER DRAGON kind of a big deal that we usually use whole living world seasons or expansions to set up? It just seemed to me that everything happened so incredibly fast from Chapter 4 to Chapter 5. > > > > There is a multi-month gap between the end of Episode 4 and the beginning of Episode 5, which gets explained during the Confer with Bangar post-Episode 4 achievement. During this gap, Primordus _began_ to stir, due to the awakening of Jormag somehow causing it (despite there being a 50 year gap between their awakening last time). > > > > Primordus is not yet awake, but is awakening. > > > > They're not spending a whole season on Primordus' awakening because ANet doesn't want to just be retreading the same plot again and again. They did so for Mordremoth because it was the first time they did that plot. With Icebrood Saga, they only spent half a season on that so that they can include other stuff. > > > > > @"HotDelirium.7984" said: > > > I'm still confused about how and what the Spirits of the Wild are doing right now and why did Charr have essence from the 3 spirits if we killed Drakkar? > > > > For the latter: pure mechanics. They wanted to keep the masteries relevant, and they used the same color coding we see in [The Ooze Pits](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ooze_Pit_Trials) meta, where green=Ash, blue=Iron, and red=Blood. > > They need some EPIC reveals and if by the end of Champions we don't get reveals of certain things I will be highly disappointed i.e. the spirits of the wild were dragon champs or Koda was a dragon champ or Jormag is actually Koda...like SOMETHING god anything at this point. > > Are we straight up not getting any more spirits of the wild masteries? Wasn't that the point of icebrood saga...to get to know the spirits? Jormag the judge, icebrood the jury.

I only play them if there‘s something I want from them, like a skin. Once I have that I‘m never touching it again, because instanced content just doesn‘t satisfy me.

I never wear outfits, mix and match is superior.

> @"Pax.3548" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > #Everytime I feel like, hey maybe we are making progress with Braham as a character, and that his growth arc is happening, he regresses back into a baby. > > > > Anet. Stop this. Braham doesn't have to express his opinions about everything by whining like a child. He's no longer one. > > Takes like 4 different parties to tell Braham to focus on the threat at hand for him to kitten about Jormag for 2 steps of the quest and HE BACK AT IT. > > I share his reaction though, I too really distrust Jormag, like, really. I mostly agree with Braham, too. Taimi actively sharing data/findings with Ryland and Jormag with the intention to kill Primordus is a bad idea. I do understand the Arcane Council crafting an alliance due to research just like how the inquest are tolerated and represented in the council. But Taimi should know better. The one thing I disagree with Braham is about calling Jormag a liar. And that disagreement is only due to one of Tom Abernathy tweets (Edit: [source]( ) ) some time ago where he stated that Jormag doesn‘t lie (which our character obviously doesn‘t know).

> @"Astralporing.1957" said: > I'd like to point out, that we once had a truce with a certain former enemy we met in S3 that we made to fight with our new common enemies. And we all know how that ended. Ha! Jormag is actually >! Balthazar. He faked his death with Lyssa's mirror and is disguised as an Elder Dragon.

My guess: Mobilizing allies has to finish, so new Dragon Rescue Mission in 7 days (next tuesday) + continuation of the story with the new one.

> @"Jekkt.6045" said: > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > > > You seem to be taking some real hard offense to these points I'm bringing up and I'm not sure its possible to actually have a constructive discussion with you on this if that is the case. I'm fine with having disagreements, but you seem to be almost literally putting words into my mouth and also seem to be completely misunderstanding or misconstruing things I've posted. I apologize if my point of view offends you, but its a bit unnecessary to have this kind of reaction to it where it seems as if you're assuming I'm being completely vitriolic in regards to the game because I share a different point of view. > > > > > > > > This from someone that got so offended by me saying that GW2 outlived most of its competition in my original comment that he had to misconstrue my whole argument by putting words into my mouth. Anet really has permanent residency in your head. > > > > > > > > I agree we can‘t have a constructive discussion. There‘s no point arguing when you fault Anet for things you personally believe are bad (when the same things literally happen in the same other games you play, yet for some reason it‘s fine there), but don‘t really matter for the game at all. Only a small fraction of the playerbase cares about the game director not being announced. I‘m not even sure if you can call them part of the playerbase, as they‘re not even playing anymore, just being doomers because they can‘t let go. Just face that you aren‘t the target audience, it‘s not that hard. Changing the whole game around to match your personal vision is not something Anet will do. They‘re here to earn money by creating a product that appeals to many, not a singular person. The game is still doing fine and has a future, even if you don‘t want to realize that. > > > > > > > > Edit: It‘s actually so funny to see you try to attribute different content to „casual“ play. Your horizontal progression = makes the game more casual argument is still so wrong. What would you call someone like Asmongold? He doesn‘t really play competitively, doesn‘t really speed through content etc., yet he‘s one of the people I‘d actually call „hardcore“, as he created his whole life and career around WoW. > > > > Sorry, but I don‘t think consider min/maxxers or people speeding through content „hardcore“. Everyone can follow a guide. The people creating the guide? Those might be the actual hardcore people, the ones doing the number crunching. > > > > Most self-proclaimed „hardcore“ players aren‘t hardcore at all. They‘re easy to spot, too. > > > > > > Alright, well if you can't seem to cease from being vitriolic and have a constructive conversation because you took some apparent extreme offense at me simply, and calmly, pointing out something you said that I felt wasn't entirely accurate. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day/night and that you continue to enjoy GW2. > > > > Call me vitriolic all you want, as unconstructive as that may be, doesn‘t change that GW2 outlived most of its competitors in the 8 years it has been alive ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ > > Don‘t worry about me, I‘ll enjoy todays update as well as future updates and the expansion next year. > > Have a nice day. > > stating gw2 has outlived "most of its competitors" isn't really correct. i mean, sure, it outlived games like blade and soul or archeage.. but i would not call them real competitors because they weren't even meant to run for a long time. games like those have a lower budget and try to make as much money as possible on release and then are left to die while the studio/publisher rinse and repeat the same formula. out of all its "real" competitors, (WoW, FFXIV, ESO, Wildstar, Runescape? BDO) gw2 really only outlived wildstar which died because of blatant mismanagement and corrupted higher ups. So while yes, gw2 outlived some games, it only really outlived one of its direct competitors as of today. BnS and AA are still running, so they don't really fit into your description. I also wouldn't call those two low budget games, especially since one even got a whole Anime to promote the game. But if you got a list with the different budget sizes, feel free to share, I'd be interested to see the games compared to each other. Every MMORPG is a direct competitor, even if you personally don't see it like that. Games like Bless and FireFall still count. A racer in formula 1 is still a competitor, even if he DNF. Or would you call those ones not "real" competitors?

Aren‘t the Sons of Svanir able to create portals? That would be an unexpected way.

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > You seem to be taking some real hard offense to these points I'm bringing up and I'm not sure its possible to actually have a constructive discussion with you on this if that is the case. I'm fine with having disagreements, but you seem to be almost literally putting words into my mouth and also seem to be completely misunderstanding or misconstruing things I've posted. I apologize if my point of view offends you, but its a bit unnecessary to have this kind of reaction to it where it seems as if you're assuming I'm being completely vitriolic in regards to the game because I share a different point of view. > > > > This from someone that got so offended by me saying that GW2 outlived most of its competition in my original comment that he had to misconstrue my whole argument by putting words into my mouth. Anet really has permanent residency in your head. > > > > I agree we can‘t have a constructive discussion. There‘s no point arguing when you fault Anet for things you personally believe are bad (when the same things literally happen in the same other games you play, yet for some reason it‘s fine there), but don‘t really matter for the game at all. Only a small fraction of the playerbase cares about the game director not being announced. I‘m not even sure if you can call them part of the playerbase, as they‘re not even playing anymore, just being doomers because they can‘t let go. Just face that you aren‘t the target audience, it‘s not that hard. Changing the whole game around to match your personal vision is not something Anet will do. They‘re here to earn money by creating a product that appeals to many, not a singular person. The game is still doing fine and has a future, even if you don‘t want to realize that. > > > > Edit: It‘s actually so funny to see you try to attribute different content to „casual“ play. Your horizontal progression = makes the game more casual argument is still so wrong. What would you call someone like Asmongold? He doesn‘t really play competitively, doesn‘t really speed through content etc., yet he‘s one of the people I‘d actually call „hardcore“, as he created his whole life and career around WoW. > > Sorry, but I don‘t think consider min/maxxers or people speeding through content „hardcore“. Everyone can follow a guide. The people creating the guide? Those might be the actual hardcore people, the ones doing the number crunching. > > Most self-proclaimed „hardcore“ players aren‘t hardcore at all. They‘re easy to spot, too. > > Alright, well if you can't seem to cease from being vitriolic and have a constructive conversation because you took some apparent extreme offense at me simply, and calmly, pointing out something you said that I felt wasn't entirely accurate. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day/night and that you continue to enjoy GW2. Call me vitriolic all you want, as unconstructive as that may be, doesn‘t change that GW2 outlived most of its competitors in the 8 years it has been alive ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ Don‘t worry about me, I‘ll enjoy todays update as well as future updates and the expansion next year. Have a nice day.

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > You seem to be taking some real hard offense to these points I'm bringing up and I'm not sure its possible to actually have a constructive discussion with you on this if that is the case. I'm fine with having disagreements, but you seem to be almost literally putting words into my mouth and also seem to be completely misunderstanding or misconstruing things I've posted. I apologize if my point of view offends you, but its a bit unnecessary to have this kind of reaction to it where it seems as if you're assuming I'm being completely vitriolic in regards to the game because I share a different point of view. This from someone that got so offended by me saying that GW2 outlived most of its competition in my original comment that he had to misconstrue my whole argument by putting words into my mouth. Anet really has permanent residency in your head. I agree we can‘t have a constructive discussion. There‘s no point arguing when you fault Anet for things you personally believe are bad (when the same things literally happen in the same other games you play, yet for some reason it‘s fine there), but don‘t really matter for the game at all. Only a small fraction of the playerbase cares about the game director not being announced. I‘m not even sure if you can call them part of the playerbase, as they‘re not even playing anymore, just being doomers because they can‘t let go. Just face that you aren‘t the target audience, it‘s not that hard. Changing the whole game around to match your personal vision is not something Anet will do. They‘re here to earn money by creating a product that appeals to many, not a singular person. The game is still doing fine and has a future, even if you don‘t want to realize that. Edit: It‘s actually so funny to see you try to attribute different content to „casual“ play. Your horizontal progression = makes the game more casual argument is still so wrong. What would you call someone like Asmongold? He doesn‘t really play competitively, doesn‘t really speed through content etc., yet he‘s one of the people I‘d actually call „hardcore“, as he created his whole life and career around WoW. Sorry, but I don‘t think consider min/maxxers or people speeding through content „hardcore“. Everyone can follow a guide. The people creating the guide? Those might be the actual hardcore people, the ones doing the number crunching. Most self-proclaimed „hardcore“ players aren‘t hardcore at all. They‘re easy to spot, too.

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > > > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Rukia.4802" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 recognized (?) pvp mode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Rukia.4802" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 recognized (?) pvp mode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which simply is why its doomed to not live as long as the competition. If End of dragons doesn't do well I wont be surprised if NCsoft pulls the plug, they've done so to games more successful for less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 8 years GW2 has been alive it outlived most of its competition ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Took NCSoft long enough to pull the plug on Wildstar and Aion is still alive with less sales. > > > > > > > > Also they only recently gave Tencent the publishing rights in China. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those aren't "most of its competition" though. TERA is still going (unfortunately), WoW is still going much stronger, FFXIV is also going much stronger, BDO pushes GW2 out with its larger daily populations and better player retention, ESO (which is probably GW2s closest "competitor" in terms of combat mechanics and otherwise) is going stronger than GW2 with active population. **Runescape**, and I mean Oldschool Runescape, holds players better than GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not to mention upcoming MMOs are probably going to siphon even more playerbase from GW2. Lost Ark is confirmed for Western release in 2021, it might not have the "lack of a gear treadmill" that GW2 has, but it **does** have completely equalized PvP arenas which will undoubtedly pull most of whatever remains of the PvP population away from this game. > > > > > > > > > > > > So you mentioned 6 still living MMORPGs out of how many MMORPGs that died out while GW2 keeps on living? > > > > > > Those games you mentioned aren't "most of its competition". Just the current competition that survived. > > > > > > I'm also wondering where you're pulling BDO and ESO population playerbase numbers from, I'm interested how they compare to other games. > > > > > > > > > > > > Placing your hope in Lost Ark is funny to see. Do you know which games will pull what remains of the PvP population? Actual PvP games, not Lost Ark. > > > > > > And that's without mentioning that Lost Ark has a different target audience than GW2. > > > > > > > > > > The thing you're forgetting to account for, though, in regards to the "MMORPGs that died while GW2 keeps on living" is that those other MMORPGs also "keep on living". I also never said GW2 is dying, didn't imply it either if you read the rest of the post. > > > > > > > > > > Also yes, sure, Lost Ark might be aiming for a different target audience than GW2, but they still exist in the same genre...thats like saying WoW and GW2 aren't competitors with each other in the MMORPG genre, which would be wildly inaccurate. Yes its a KR grind MMORPG, yes it has gear treadmill, yes it has top down perspective, but those likely won't be deterrents for players. Or at least not big enough concerns to deter them. Its also presumably being published by Amazon, that marketing endeavor is unlikely to be minimal. So if anything, Lost Arks "target audience" is the typical MMO player...not the "hardcore casual" that GW2 seems to cater to pretty heavily. > > > > > > > > > > But why do I also say it will probably pull most of whatever remains of the PvP population? Mostly because many likely stick around because they don't have to worry about gear to PvP, which Lost Ark also has. If "actual PvP games" were the only thing that those players were looking for then they would have just simply left already, but give them another option with a system similar to GW2 sPvP and they will probably go to it. Probably not the "top" players, though, considering how they probably enjoy being able to sit in their leaderboard positions with little effort and minimal competition. > > > > > > > > > > Also I'm curious as to what you mean by "placing my hope in"? To me that sounds like you're assuming that I'm thinking Lost Ark is going to *revolutionize* the genre, or that it will get me back into MMORPGs, or that it will "kill" GW2. It could be that you just didn't use the right phrasing or I could be wrong but none of that is accurate. For one, no...I don't jump onto hype trains, I'm realistic with my expectations. Its the same reason why I don't believe GW2 is dead or dying, just that its horribly managed, handled and the devs *seem* like they have a distinct lack of actual passion for this game anymore. Second, I haven't stopped playing MMORPGs, I am playing Destiny 2 right now, I consistently play WoW, and FFXIV is on my list of revisiting sooner rather than later since I can only afford to sub to one of them at a time. Thirdly, I don't even want GW2 to die, I want them to do better, handle it better. I'm not going to fluff their ego, I'm not going to pander to them and feel sorry for them when they get criticism, or adamantly defend them when warranted criticisms are made. I don't discount that its still alive and it still has a population, but I do at the very least recognize that it has issues that I believe ANet needs to resolve, but they have done nothing to resolve them and the game feels like they don't even care, especially with their abysmal approach to communication. > > > > > > > > Man you assume a lot of things. I‘ve never said that you‘re saying that GW2 is dying, if you read my post. > > > > Asymetrical gaming and third person gaming is a huge difference, especially for MMORPGs. Diablo 4 and PoE2 are the biggest competitors for Lost Ark. I bet most GW2 pvp players haven‘t even heard of the game. > > > > Tells a lot that you‘re speaking of „hardcore casuals“. Hint: GW2‘s average players are just as bad as any average WoW, LoL, BDO, ESO, Rift, PoE, Diablo player. Get off your high horse. > > > > > > > > Lost Arks PvP is so different from GW2 you‘d better compare it to Battlerite. > > > > > > > > For a „horribly managed“ game GW2 survived 8 years just fine, even with an expansion in the horizon. Maybe it isn‘t as badly managed as you think and you‘re just the wrong target audience? > > > > > > > > I also wouldn‘t call Destiny 2 a MMORPG, but i guess the term changed over time to include lobby shooters /shrug > > > > > > Thats why I asked what you meant by "placing my hope in". Seemed an odd phrase to use in the context. I also don't think casual players are "bad" players, I'm fine with casuals I have no issues with them existing and I don't even shove my min/max tryhard mentality onto them. Even in the context of "capability" in a game I don't think casual = not capable, they just want and like different things, its also a matter of mentality. A casual doesn't necessarily do what I do in most games that I play, again which is fine, but they are a different kind of player. I said "hardcore casuals" because GW2's casual playerbase is historically, and vehemently, averse to any kind of gearing/character progression that games like WoW, FFXIV, BDO, or otherwise have. Again, this is fine. > > > > > > Also GW2 wasn't horribly managed for all of the 8 years, but things over the last 3 and a half years I'd say have been compounding into it becoming more and more of an issue. The game 100% had more of an actual direction and vision before Colin left, but ever since then I honestly think its been all over the place. Also, I've been with the Guild Wars franchise since 2005 when GW1 first came out, and I've stuck with GW2 over the years until very recently. Its still very much in my wheelhouse, but how they execute things and how things have been handled these last few years I just couldn't anymore. Abysmal communication, PvP balance has gotten worse over time, WvW and sPvP have been for the most part neglected, sPvP Ranked and even ATs are mostly a joke and ANet hasn't taken the right steps to remedy that issue, and the shallowness of the content updates along with the system upon system and abandoned map upon abandoned map bloat in PvE, for me it all compounded into me just being done. If I want meaty PvE content, there are other games for that. If I want at *least* decent MMORPG PvP, there are other games for that. If I want an MMORPG with a good and engaging story, very much so other games for that. If I want a ton of visual customization that I can *earn* ingame for my character (also including mounts and other cosmetics), again very much so other games for that. > > > > > > GW2, for me, just doesn't do it anymore with the direction they have headed. Its unfortunate, its sad, but that doesn't mean these problems don't exist or that they aren't problems just because you and others like the game. Plenty of people can be blinded by their enjoyment of something to the point of not even bothering to acknowledge the faults or the flaws that it might have. Take my "fanboying" over Lost Ark, as some might consider it at least. Yes, I'm excited for the game and to be able to play it soon, but I also am fully aware that its going to be gear grinding and thats not to everyone's liking, there are also time gated lockouts for certain pieces of content, the PvP arena, Ranked, doesn't allow for full team queueing (3v3), being able to participate in the equalized PvP will also still require you to level a character all the way to 50 first, and so on and so on. No game is without faults, no game is perfect, and GW2 is certainly flawed and thats all I have ever endeavored to point out. The game has its issues, its not unreasonable for myself or others to point them out as criticisms and ask for at least **communication** from the company on it, but they don't even do that. > > > > > > Also yes Destiny 2 is an MMORPG, by definition it is. They tried to dodge the term for years with the "shared world shooter" nonsense...but that is what it is. Its an MMORPG. > > > > Pretty much every playerbase is like the GW2 one in terms of skill. Being more of a fan of horizontal progressin doesn‘t change that. WoW, BDO, ESO and the rest have pretty much the same average players. Your definition of „casual“ is quite strange, if it means „averse to gearing/character progression“. I guess SL1 runners in Dark Souls are casuals, not much gearing there. Bloodborne has more of an horizontal gearing, aside from weapon upgrades, starter weapons (especially Saw Cleaver) are on par with weapons you later find in the game. I dare say horizontal gear is more skill based, as you can't overpower content with pure gearstats like in WoW or similiar gear-based games. > > > > I‘ve also been with this game since GW1 Prophecies. The only time I‘ve felt they didn‘t have a clear vision was shortly post HoT. It‘s natural that gamemodes with a small population will be neglected. That‘s not an Anet thing, Riot did the same to Dominion and TT (and Nexus Blitz), even killed them off completely. If you don‘t like the content and can find better gameplay in other games, maybe it isn‘t the game, but that your taste of gameplay doesn‘t match up with Anets vision because you aren‘t the target audience? Anet has the metrics where players spend most of the time, so they create content for those players. Your post makes it clear you aren‘t one of those. > > > > People can be blinded by their enjoyment the same way they can be blinded by their hate of content that they don‘t enjoy. It‘s so obvious why SPvP, WvW, Dungeons, Raids (and soon most likely Strike Missions) are neglected. Population matters, and the population seems to enjoy the content Anet is creating more than those other modes, even if you don‘t like this direction. Your type of gamemodes/content doesn't seem to pay the bill. > > > > Destiny 2 is a lobby shooter, not a MMORPG. > > My definition of casual is not "averse to gearing/character progression" that was how I defined GW2's "hardcore casual" or casual playerbase due to how they react to and view any form of gear progression or gear treadmill, this is specifically in the context of GW2. A casual player in WoW likely doesn't share those same views towards that kind of content or system. Your response seems like a misconstrued interpretation of what I *actually* said by generalizing it to everything. > > If I didn't agree with you on GW2 not fulfilling my criteria for a game I enjoy then I wouldn't have uninstalled. However, that doesn't negate the issues that do exist outside of personal preference being an issue. ANet still has abysmal policy when it comes to communicating with the community, they still abandon PvE content and just leave it in the game rather than rework it to become more relevant or just remove it to get rid of some of the bloat, PvP/WvW continue to lose population due to neglect, Gem Store skins continue to outweigh most earnable ingame skins in terms of visuals, there are still practically no earnable ingame mount skins, no earnable ingame chair skins, and more and more. If you're okay with the direction they have gone, thats fine, then we just have to agree to disagree, but I wholeheartedly believe that you shouldn't just ignore the issues that *do* exist with how they have been managing things. They have an expansion on the horizon and their careers page still lists that they are hiring a game director and still have yet to acknowledge that Mike Z left **last year** and we heard nothing about it or a new game director or anything. That should be *concerning* to this community. > > If that happened with any other MMORPG, any other game for that matter, you can be sure that if they didn't say anything about that sort of big shift in leadership then their communities would be raising hell. Imagine if, for WoW, Ion Hazzikostas stepped down from his position and nothing was said by him or Blizzard and they still had an open vacancy for that position for *months*? For some reason this community just lets ANet coast and get away with things as significant as that. Thats why my posts probably seem mostly negative or "hateful" of the company, because unfortunately there are some vocal individuals here that will **adamantly** and without question defend ANet and not hold them accountable for the mistakes and poor decisions they make. > > Also Destiny 2 is a lobby shooter *as well as* an MMORPG. They have literally defined it as such back in 2019. Ah, so you're changing the definition of casual how you please. That means I don't have to pay attention to your definitions, since they are biased and mean nothing then. Big shocker that a GW2 player prefers horizontal progression. Horizontal progression has been here since GW1. It's a design choice that attracts players. If I want PvP out of a game, I'm not going to play a PvE game, or are those PvE people in a PvE game casual for their averse reaction if you want to introduce PvP? If I play a car racing game I'm not suddenly going to call those people "casual" because they are averse to use boats in a game designed around cars. Your definition of casual here is completely arbitrary and nonsensical. So you'd prefer it if Anet just simply did it the Riot way? Remove gamemodes to get rid of the bloat? No thank you. PvP/WvW will continue to be neglected because they lack players, just like Dominion and TT did. I mean, do you still see people use Garrisons in WoW? Every old raid and dungeon in WoW could be classified as "bloat". Removing them would still be a mistake. Anet aren't the first ones that abandon content, and they won't be the last. Yeah, they have an expansion on the horizon with a plan. Why should not having news about a game director be concerning to this community when content still steadily releases? Because you said so? You may care, but I bet most do not as long as the game keeps releasing content, which it does. Ah yes, the community uproars that matter. The scandals at Riot sure did a lot to hurt LoL! What? No one cares about the Hearthstone controversy anymore? Hell, I'd have to look up most game directors of the games I play. You may not like it, but I bet most don't care about stuff like that, they just want to play a good game. It's really strange how there's so many vocal individuals here that will keep on hating on the game for reasons that don't actually matter, years after they've uninstalled. It's like Anet is living in their head rent free. Destiny 2 is a lobby shooter, not a MMORPG. Might as well call Battlefield and every BR out there a MMO. So yeah, I agree to disagree with most of your points as they seem to stem from not being part of the target audience and personal bias.

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Rukia.4802" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 recognized (?) pvp mode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game? > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Rukia.4802" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 recognized (?) pvp mode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game? > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which simply is why its doomed to not live as long as the competition. If End of dragons doesn't do well I wont be surprised if NCsoft pulls the plug, they've done so to games more successful for less. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the 8 years GW2 has been alive it outlived most of its competition ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ > > > > > > > > > > > > Took NCSoft long enough to pull the plug on Wildstar and Aion is still alive with less sales. > > > > > > Also they only recently gave Tencent the publishing rights in China. > > > > > > > > > > Those aren't "most of its competition" though. TERA is still going (unfortunately), WoW is still going much stronger, FFXIV is also going much stronger, BDO pushes GW2 out with its larger daily populations and better player retention, ESO (which is probably GW2s closest "competitor" in terms of combat mechanics and otherwise) is going stronger than GW2 with active population. **Runescape**, and I mean Oldschool Runescape, holds players better than GW2. > > > > > > > > > > Not to mention upcoming MMOs are probably going to siphon even more playerbase from GW2. Lost Ark is confirmed for Western release in 2021, it might not have the "lack of a gear treadmill" that GW2 has, but it **does** have completely equalized PvP arenas which will undoubtedly pull most of whatever remains of the PvP population away from this game. > > > > > > > > So you mentioned 6 still living MMORPGs out of how many MMORPGs that died out while GW2 keeps on living? > > > > Those games you mentioned aren't "most of its competition". Just the current competition that survived. > > > > I'm also wondering where you're pulling BDO and ESO population playerbase numbers from, I'm interested how they compare to other games. > > > > > > > > Placing your hope in Lost Ark is funny to see. Do you know which games will pull what remains of the PvP population? Actual PvP games, not Lost Ark. > > > > And that's without mentioning that Lost Ark has a different target audience than GW2. > > > > > > The thing you're forgetting to account for, though, in regards to the "MMORPGs that died while GW2 keeps on living" is that those other MMORPGs also "keep on living". I also never said GW2 is dying, didn't imply it either if you read the rest of the post. > > > > > > Also yes, sure, Lost Ark might be aiming for a different target audience than GW2, but they still exist in the same genre...thats like saying WoW and GW2 aren't competitors with each other in the MMORPG genre, which would be wildly inaccurate. Yes its a KR grind MMORPG, yes it has gear treadmill, yes it has top down perspective, but those likely won't be deterrents for players. Or at least not big enough concerns to deter them. Its also presumably being published by Amazon, that marketing endeavor is unlikely to be minimal. So if anything, Lost Arks "target audience" is the typical MMO player...not the "hardcore casual" that GW2 seems to cater to pretty heavily. > > > > > > But why do I also say it will probably pull most of whatever remains of the PvP population? Mostly because many likely stick around because they don't have to worry about gear to PvP, which Lost Ark also has. If "actual PvP games" were the only thing that those players were looking for then they would have just simply left already, but give them another option with a system similar to GW2 sPvP and they will probably go to it. Probably not the "top" players, though, considering how they probably enjoy being able to sit in their leaderboard positions with little effort and minimal competition. > > > > > > Also I'm curious as to what you mean by "placing my hope in"? To me that sounds like you're assuming that I'm thinking Lost Ark is going to *revolutionize* the genre, or that it will get me back into MMORPGs, or that it will "kill" GW2. It could be that you just didn't use the right phrasing or I could be wrong but none of that is accurate. For one, no...I don't jump onto hype trains, I'm realistic with my expectations. Its the same reason why I don't believe GW2 is dead or dying, just that its horribly managed, handled and the devs *seem* like they have a distinct lack of actual passion for this game anymore. Second, I haven't stopped playing MMORPGs, I am playing Destiny 2 right now, I consistently play WoW, and FFXIV is on my list of revisiting sooner rather than later since I can only afford to sub to one of them at a time. Thirdly, I don't even want GW2 to die, I want them to do better, handle it better. I'm not going to fluff their ego, I'm not going to pander to them and feel sorry for them when they get criticism, or adamantly defend them when warranted criticisms are made. I don't discount that its still alive and it still has a population, but I do at the very least recognize that it has issues that I believe ANet needs to resolve, but they have done nothing to resolve them and the game feels like they don't even care, especially with their abysmal approach to communication. > > > > Man you assume a lot of things. I‘ve never said that you‘re saying that GW2 is dying, if you read my post. > > Asymetrical gaming and third person gaming is a huge difference, especially for MMORPGs. Diablo 4 and PoE2 are the biggest competitors for Lost Ark. I bet most GW2 pvp players haven‘t even heard of the game. > > Tells a lot that you‘re speaking of „hardcore casuals“. Hint: GW2‘s average players are just as bad as any average WoW, LoL, BDO, ESO, Rift, PoE, Diablo player. Get off your high horse. > > > > Lost Arks PvP is so different from GW2 you‘d better compare it to Battlerite. > > > > For a „horribly managed“ game GW2 survived 8 years just fine, even with an expansion in the horizon. Maybe it isn‘t as badly managed as you think and you‘re just the wrong target audience? > > > > I also wouldn‘t call Destiny 2 a MMORPG, but i guess the term changed over time to include lobby shooters /shrug > > Thats why I asked what you meant by "placing my hope in". Seemed an odd phrase to use in the context. I also don't think casual players are "bad" players, I'm fine with casuals I have no issues with them existing and I don't even shove my min/max tryhard mentality onto them. Even in the context of "capability" in a game I don't think casual = not capable, they just want and like different things, its also a matter of mentality. A casual doesn't necessarily do what I do in most games that I play, again which is fine, but they are a different kind of player. I said "hardcore casuals" because GW2's casual playerbase is historically, and vehemently, averse to any kind of gearing/character progression that games like WoW, FFXIV, BDO, or otherwise have. Again, this is fine. > > Also GW2 wasn't horribly managed for all of the 8 years, but things over the last 3 and a half years I'd say have been compounding into it becoming more and more of an issue. The game 100% had more of an actual direction and vision before Colin left, but ever since then I honestly think its been all over the place. Also, I've been with the Guild Wars franchise since 2005 when GW1 first came out, and I've stuck with GW2 over the years until very recently. Its still very much in my wheelhouse, but how they execute things and how things have been handled these last few years I just couldn't anymore. Abysmal communication, PvP balance has gotten worse over time, WvW and sPvP have been for the most part neglected, sPvP Ranked and even ATs are mostly a joke and ANet hasn't taken the right steps to remedy that issue, and the shallowness of the content updates along with the system upon system and abandoned map upon abandoned map bloat in PvE, for me it all compounded into me just being done. If I want meaty PvE content, there are other games for that. If I want at *least* decent MMORPG PvP, there are other games for that. If I want an MMORPG with a good and engaging story, very much so other games for that. If I want a ton of visual customization that I can *earn* ingame for my character (also including mounts and other cosmetics), again very much so other games for that. > > GW2, for me, just doesn't do it anymore with the direction they have headed. Its unfortunate, its sad, but that doesn't mean these problems don't exist or that they aren't problems just because you and others like the game. Plenty of people can be blinded by their enjoyment of something to the point of not even bothering to acknowledge the faults or the flaws that it might have. Take my "fanboying" over Lost Ark, as some might consider it at least. Yes, I'm excited for the game and to be able to play it soon, but I also am fully aware that its going to be gear grinding and thats not to everyone's liking, there are also time gated lockouts for certain pieces of content, the PvP arena, Ranked, doesn't allow for full team queueing (3v3), being able to participate in the equalized PvP will also still require you to level a character all the way to 50 first, and so on and so on. No game is without faults, no game is perfect, and GW2 is certainly flawed and thats all I have ever endeavored to point out. The game has its issues, its not unreasonable for myself or others to point them out as criticisms and ask for at least **communication** from the company on it, but they don't even do that. > > Also yes Destiny 2 is an MMORPG, by definition it is. They tried to dodge the term for years with the "shared world shooter" nonsense...but that is what it is. Its an MMORPG. Pretty much every playerbase is like the GW2 one in terms of skill. Being more of a fan of horizontal progressin doesn‘t change that. WoW, BDO, ESO and the rest have pretty much the same average players. Your definition of „casual“ is quite strange, if it means „averse to gearing/character progression“. I guess SL1 runners in Dark Souls are casuals, not much gearing there. Bloodborne has more of an horizontal gearing, aside from weapon upgrades, starter weapons (especially Saw Cleaver) are on par with weapons you later find in the game. I dare say horizontal gear is more skill based, as you can't overpower content with pure gearstats like in WoW or similiar gear-based games. I‘ve also been with this game since GW1 Prophecies. The only time I‘ve felt they didn‘t have a clear vision was shortly post HoT. It‘s natural that gamemodes with a small population will be neglected. That‘s not an Anet thing, Riot did the same to Dominion and TT (and Nexus Blitz), even killed them off completely. If you don‘t like the content and can find better gameplay in other games, maybe it isn‘t the game, but that your taste of gameplay doesn‘t match up with Anets vision because you aren‘t the target audience? Anet has the metrics where players spend most of the time, so they create content for those players. Your post makes it clear you aren‘t one of those. People can be blinded by their enjoyment the same way they can be blinded by their hate of content that they don‘t enjoy. It‘s so obvious why SPvP, WvW, Dungeons, Raids (and soon most likely Strike Missions) are neglected. Population matters, and the population seems to enjoy the content Anet is creating more than those other modes, even if you don‘t like this direction. Your type of gamemodes/content doesn't seem to pay the bill. Destiny 2 is a lobby shooter, not a MMORPG.

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Rukia.4802" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 recognized (?) pvp mode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game? > > > > > > > > > > > https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Rukia.4802" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 recognized (?) pvp mode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game? > > > > > > > > > > > https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates. > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world. > > > > > > > > > > Which simply is why its doomed to not live as long as the competition. If End of dragons doesn't do well I wont be surprised if NCsoft pulls the plug, they've done so to games more successful for less. > > > > > > > > In the 8 years GW2 has been alive it outlived most of its competition ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ > > > > > > > > Took NCSoft long enough to pull the plug on Wildstar and Aion is still alive with less sales. > > > > Also they only recently gave Tencent the publishing rights in China. > > > > > > Those aren't "most of its competition" though. TERA is still going (unfortunately), WoW is still going much stronger, FFXIV is also going much stronger, BDO pushes GW2 out with its larger daily populations and better player retention, ESO (which is probably GW2s closest "competitor" in terms of combat mechanics and otherwise) is going stronger than GW2 with active population. **Runescape**, and I mean Oldschool Runescape, holds players better than GW2. > > > > > > Not to mention upcoming MMOs are probably going to siphon even more playerbase from GW2. Lost Ark is confirmed for Western release in 2021, it might not have the "lack of a gear treadmill" that GW2 has, but it **does** have completely equalized PvP arenas which will undoubtedly pull most of whatever remains of the PvP population away from this game. > > > > So you mentioned 6 still living MMORPGs out of how many MMORPGs that died out while GW2 keeps on living? > > Those games you mentioned aren't "most of its competition". Just the current competition that survived. > > I'm also wondering where you're pulling BDO and ESO population playerbase numbers from, I'm interested how they compare to other games. > > > > Placing your hope in Lost Ark is funny to see. Do you know which games will pull what remains of the PvP population? Actual PvP games, not Lost Ark. > > And that's without mentioning that Lost Ark has a different target audience than GW2. > > The thing you're forgetting to account for, though, in regards to the "MMORPGs that died while GW2 keeps on living" is that those other MMORPGs also "keep on living". I also never said GW2 is dying, didn't imply it either if you read the rest of the post. > > Also yes, sure, Lost Ark might be aiming for a different target audience than GW2, but they still exist in the same genre...thats like saying WoW and GW2 aren't competitors with each other in the MMORPG genre, which would be wildly inaccurate. Yes its a KR grind MMORPG, yes it has gear treadmill, yes it has top down perspective, but those likely won't be deterrents for players. Or at least not big enough concerns to deter them. Its also presumably being published by Amazon, that marketing endeavor is unlikely to be minimal. So if anything, Lost Arks "target audience" is the typical MMO player...not the "hardcore casual" that GW2 seems to cater to pretty heavily. > > But why do I also say it will probably pull most of whatever remains of the PvP population? Mostly because many likely stick around because they don't have to worry about gear to PvP, which Lost Ark also has. If "actual PvP games" were the only thing that those players were looking for then they would have just simply left already, but give them another option with a system similar to GW2 sPvP and they will probably go to it. Probably not the "top" players, though, considering how they probably enjoy being able to sit in their leaderboard positions with little effort and minimal competition. > > Also I'm curious as to what you mean by "placing my hope in"? To me that sounds like you're assuming that I'm thinking Lost Ark is going to *revolutionize* the genre, or that it will get me back into MMORPGs, or that it will "kill" GW2. It could be that you just didn't use the right phrasing or I could be wrong but none of that is accurate. For one, no...I don't jump onto hype trains, I'm realistic with my expectations. Its the same reason why I don't believe GW2 is dead or dying, just that its horribly managed, handled and the devs *seem* like they have a distinct lack of actual passion for this game anymore. Second, I haven't stopped playing MMORPGs, I am playing Destiny 2 right now, I consistently play WoW, and FFXIV is on my list of revisiting sooner rather than later since I can only afford to sub to one of them at a time. Thirdly, I don't even want GW2 to die, I want them to do better, handle it better. I'm not going to fluff their ego, I'm not going to pander to them and feel sorry for them when they get criticism, or adamantly defend them when warranted criticisms are made. I don't discount that its still alive and it still has a population, but I do at the very least recognize that it has issues that I believe ANet needs to resolve, but they have done nothing to resolve them and the game feels like they don't even care, especially with their abysmal approach to communication. Man you assume a lot of things. I‘ve never said that you‘re saying that GW2 is dying, if you read my post. Asymetrical gaming and third person gaming is a huge difference, especially for MMORPGs. Diablo 4 and PoE2 are the biggest competitors for Lost Ark. I bet most GW2 pvp players haven‘t even heard of the game. Tells a lot that you‘re speaking of „hardcore casuals“. Hint: GW2‘s average players are just as bad as any average WoW, LoL, BDO, ESO, Rift, PoE, Diablo player. Get off your high horse. Lost Arks PvP is so different from GW2 you‘d better compare it to Battlerite. For a „horribly managed“ game GW2 survived 8 years just fine, even with an expansion in the horizon. Maybe it isn‘t as badly managed as you think and you‘re just the wrong target audience? I also wouldn‘t call Destiny 2 a MMORPG, but i guess the term changed over time to include lobby shooters /shrug

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said: > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Rukia.4802" said: > > > > > > > > > > > 1 recognized (?) pvp mode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game? > > > > > > > > > https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > > > This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple. > > > > > > > > > > > > You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter. > > > > > > > > > > Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one? > > > > > > > > > > It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event. > > > > > > > > > > E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward. > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Rukia.4802" said: > > > > > > > > > > > 1 recognized (?) pvp mode > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's count how much pvp content GW1 got.. with a much smaller budget and team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep, because GW 1 was designed as a PvP game. Guild Wars 2 wasn't. : Even in Guild Wars 1 developed as time progressed, the updates were more and more PvE. And didn't expect PvE to be as popular as it was, but it was undeniably what ended up driving the game. The evidence is that Anet made Guild Wars 2 about PvE predominantly. You can tell by the number of updates PvE gets by comparison. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anet said, before Guild Wars 2 launched that they intentionally didn't talk about PVP for the first year after the announcement to try to break people out of the idea this was a PvP based game. They said this at shows and on panels. The focus of this game was always been PvE from day one. That's why it talked on the official website about the game being a living breathing world. That's why they focused on dynamic events. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why their steam page DIRECTLY talks about competitive play and that its a competitive game? > > > > > > > > > https://gyazo.com/7c04627da02a77ffc38f65d04853cae2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure they mention it. Just like a hotel that has tennis courts might mention them in an ad, but it doesn't make it a tennis hotel. There are four paragrpahs there, and one of them talks about competitive play which obviously from the wording covers both PvP and WvW. They're lumped in together in one paragraph. They don't even get their own seperate paragraph. Looks to me that one of the paragraphis there is about story, one is about dynamic events, one is about combat in general and one paragraph is shared between two completely different types of PvP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know a lot of people who would argue at this point that this game is centered on PvP. Just look at the game updates Anet absolutely said what I said they said. That they didn't talk about PvP for the first year to make it clear this wasn't a PvP centric game. Because they had trouble getting people into GW 1 later on because everyone assumed it was a PvP centric game. They've never had the bulk of their devs working on PvP. And I don't know any PvPers who think they have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can believe anything you want, but the evidence doesn't really support what you're implying here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually it does, you don't need a combat engine or system like they have for PvE. Simple. Dodging was made popular by guild wars 2, sure tera online and a few others tried it but not to the extent this game has. It only shines in Competitive play; Its nice in PvE but most time its stack and spank unless in raids and even then most of the time its stack and spank. The combat engine was built for PvP, E-sports was their plan in HoT and failed due to balance, WvW was their end-game mode with dungeons and fractals as well new maps being the only thing PvE had. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ontop of that WvW DIRECTLY effected PvE and vice versa before the mega-servers. The game was built with PvP in mind and a bunch of PvE players began whining because it was the end-game, which was back when everyone claimed it had no end-game. Now end-game PvE exists and its more niche than WvW and it still gets more content Cadence (not saying alot here). Im sorry but the evidence points to end-game anything outside of PvE maps not being the focus, be it fractals, PvP, WvW, Raiding or what have you. The game is made to sell you new maps and mastery's and it has been this way since mid way through S3 of the living world~ And from the looks of it I'd say they are turning course back around to where ALL modes are taken better care of. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You, as a PvE fiend who sit here and diminish the importance of competitive modes don't understand that there is a big market for PvP in mmo's. And when we go to steam there will be a pretty big fire being burnt because a lot of those people want competition. Just because you don't care/like/want or acknowledge the mode as anything more than a waste of time (guessing based on how you dismiss it) Doesn't mean everyone else does. I personally see raids and strikes, as well fractals as a waste of time as they offer no power increase for the BS that exist within those game modes. And the shenanigans and rude people who exist within them; Id rather those resources be put the work elsewhere but surprise, surprise... new fractal in sep. And fractals aren't even a focus in the game~ And haven't been for a long time. > > > > > > > > > > > > This game as never focused on PvP. For years and years and y ears, people in the PvP and WvW community have complained about lack of updates compared to PvE. You can try to spin this any way you like but it's just not the case. From launch, count the updates that affected each, it really is that simple. > > > > > > > > > > > > You may have a different opinion but the raised voices of the WvW and PvP community tell a completely different story. So does the raid community for that matter. > > > > > > > > > > Raids have been abandoned and you'll likely be hard pressed to see another one. PvE end-game is not successful here so HONESTLY looking at what A-net themselves have said, Fractals are the most succesful of the PvE end-game. So outside of living world maps/expansion maps stop developing everything else and focus there, close down those waste of space modes and roll their rewards into those two modes. Cull the player-base of the ones you dont want or care about, and just do more of the same because honestly NONE but Open world PvE have the participation to warrant existence. Even fractals likely don't have enough to really warrant development, how long has it been since we got a new one? We get one this month. How long until the next one? > > > > > > > > > > It was PvP focused, Go back and look at HoT and look at Core and how they marketed it. WvW and PvP even had their own trailers and they were talked about once they knew what they wanted to do; The combat engine was designed for it. Your opinion is wrong and willfully ignorant and Ill call you on it, Dodge rolling and the like of what we have combat wise is not needed for PvE once so ever and honestly offer WAAAY too many balancing problems for them to have willfully made the game this way. The game changed directions because of their inability and lack of drive to balance the game; E-sports is pretty dang boring when its two teams of the same class/classes duking it out because its literally more of a western stand-off than it is a sporting event. > > > > > > > > > > E-sports require variation and diversity in builds, characters and skill-sets and this game? Never has and likely never will offer or demand that. Think what you will, but I suggest we walk away from communication with one another. Im not about to conceded to your ludicrous point and you refuse to acknowledge or understand mine, there is a communication barrier and we can't co-exist because frankly Im unable to not come at you over an opinion based on a lie. So respectfully do not reply, let it go and I shall do the same and we will part with this. Or we can continue to do this for the next two weeks and argue; Im leaving that choice entirely up to you but Im not going to be as forthcoming or tolerant going forward. > > > > > > > > You've said it yourself. For many many years now, the main focus of development has been story, meta events, dynamic events, and the occasional fractal. That's pretty much it. But back in the days of Season 1 of the Living World. PvE was getting content every two weeks and all I heard, even back then, were PvPers who felt abandoned by the company. You can write as many paragraphs as you like but the PvE focus has been here since Season 1, when PvE was getting the vast majority of updates. > > > > > > > > Edit: Traditional end game definitions NEVER applied to this game. The game didn't launch with raids. The devs themselves said they considered the three Orr zones end game. Dungeons too were obviously end game, but it wasn't what the devs were talking about, when they talked about the game, at least not by percentage of time. In HoT, zone metas were considered end game and still probably are for most people. Raids and Fractals are the instanced end game, but this game has been focused more on the open world. > > > > > > Which simply is why its doomed to not live as long as the competition. If End of dragons doesn't do well I wont be surprised if NCsoft pulls the plug, they've done so to games more successful for less. > > > > In the 8 years GW2 has been alive it outlived most of its competition ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ > > > > Took NCSoft long enough to pull the plug on Wildstar and Aion is still alive with less sales. > > Also they only recently gave Tencent the publishing rights in China. > > Those aren't "most of its competition" though. TERA is still going (unfortunately), WoW is still going much stronger, FFXIV is also going much stronger, BDO pushes GW2 out with its larger daily populations and better player retention, ESO (which is probably GW2s closest "competitor" in terms of combat mechanics and otherwise) is going stronger than GW2 with active population. **Runescape**, and I mean Oldschool Runescape, holds players better than GW2. > > Not to mention upcoming MMOs are probably going to siphon even more playerbase from GW2. Lost Ark is confirmed for Western release in 2021, it might not have the "lack of a gear treadmill" that GW2 has, but it **does** have completely equalized PvP arenas which will undoubtedly pull most of whatever remains of the PvP population away from this game. So you mentioned 6 still living MMORPGs out of how many MMORPGs that died out while GW2 keeps on living? Those games you mentioned aren't "most of its competition". Just the current competition that survived. I'm also wondering where you're pulling BDO and ESO population playerbase numbers from, I'm interested how they compare to other games. Placing your hope in Lost Ark is funny to see. Do you know which games will pull what remains of the PvP population? Actual PvP games, not Lost Ark. And that's without mentioning that Lost Ark has a different target audience than GW2.

> @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"Raknar.4735" said: > > > Housing would increase my time spent ingame. Implementing a „visiting“ option to see other houses as well as a templating function to save and share player houses could even create a community based around that, just like in PoE. > But would it also increase the amount of real money that you spend on the game? That's what would ultimately drive the decision, IMO. I'm sure Anet cares about how much time player spend in the game, but I believe that they would rather player spend more money. If this is not the case, then I would appreciate resources being spent elsewhere. However, I am expecting housing to be in the expansion because what else would be enough of a hook to pull people into buying it? > > Then, there will be additions to basic housing that will be in the gem store that everyone will whine about being too expensive, just like the mount skins. > Personally? Yes, I would spend real money on it. So yes, I would appreciate if resources were spent on housing. But it doesn't actually matter what you or I think about how resources should be spent. It's the same with mounts: I couldn't care less about new mounts skins, as I don't buy any of them, yet others buy into them. The same will most likely be true for housing, where I'm one of the people that will spend money on it. Saying that **everyone** will whine about prices is a bit much. Not everyone whined about the mount skins, I simply didn't care about the skins in the first place ;)