mortrialus.3062
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Posts posted by mortrialus.3062
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> @"Shao.7236" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"Shao.7236" said:
> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > @"Shao.7236" said:
> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > > Nothing serious is happening to rev. The devs don't think it's over powered, just that the best players favor rev, and the best players tend to win.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hypothetically, what would you nerf without killing the class. Because a Rev (More like Herald only) success often depends on how reckless it's opponents are.
> > > > >
> > > > > All I'm ever seeing is complains that are easily circumvented given the players care enough to pay attention.
> > > >
> > > > If you're a condition player there's no circumventing Infused Light. It's a catch 22, you either do enough damage to pressure them into using Infused Light undoing all of the damage you have done and your conditions are about to do, or you just don't do damage to them, at which point you might as well not fight and just go elsewhere. It was less of an issue when damage values were at a point where even with a full Infused Light heal your damage output could still overwhelm them before it when off cooldown.
> > > >
> > > > There's no real fix except undoing the abomination that was the megabalance.
> > > >
> > > > Nothing serious is happening to Rev, because as we all know rev is a class favored by only the best of players and the best players tend to win, so sayeth the High Priest of Balance Lord CMC His Holiness.
> > >
> > > Poison does reduce it's efficiency though, tickling sure is better than blasting through the options. That was honestly the premise of dealing with any in the first place, by saying that you could simply mash through was the core issue of the game before hand for any professions before and the reason why people were complaining to no end, with that saying it means that if we take care of one problem, we get another because Anet did remove a lot of power creep.
> >
> > Tickling will never out DPS the Mallyx heal, which means they will never need to use Infuse Light. If you've done enough damage to scare him into using Infused Light he's going to heal to full regardless of if poison is on him. There's also classes like Condition Mesmer that has garbage weapon skills in terms of damage output that rely on a 24 second cooldown Cry of Frustration for lethal damage. There's no capacity to tickling at all on that build. That class:s damage is literally not designed around it.
>
> I've seen condi mesmers disarm and throw off Mallyx easily with Domination and Arcane Thievery, maybe because they knew when to boon rip. It's not like it's hard when 90% of resistance is the first in line. I boon rip heralds on Mallyx without the resistance trait for fun and they die relatively quick with the right timing, never have energy to be offensive either.
>
> You can wish for nerfs to it, doesn't affect me. Will in fact make the job easier since I always switch my habits around, however I still think they aren't a problem.
Domination condi mesmer can rip resistance but doesn't have the DPS to finish the kill on it's own hence when it did see any play it was as a +1 roamer with Portal and not a 1v1 duelist.
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> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:
> > Whatever the changes are they won't make the game mode any better. Right now we have 2+ necros every match, condi revs, and condi thieves taking the stage but even if they do something about those the builds that would otherwise be way overperforming like grenade spamming holos that need their damage nerfed will just wind up dominating again. Then it will be another 6 months until we get a patch fixing those.
> >
> > If they make any changes I think they will castrate rev, MAYBE touch condi thief again, do some weird unnecessary changes to mesmer to further destroy it, and buff Engi and Warrior. Except the buff to engi will be written as though it's a nerf, but leads to something else being exploited to its fullest and being 10 times worse.
> >
> > I really think warrior is going to see a lot of changes and become king after this next patch. That's not wishful thinking because I don't even play warrior, just a gut feeling.
>
> They should focus def on holosmith scrapper and rev, since they are problematic, and hopefully not touch too much core engi so it doesn-t end up gutted but hit holosmith. Don-t want poor engis to be angry and quit the game because they become trash tier. its possible that its only a small problem for scrapper and another small so hopefully they don-t gut scrapper and holo either.
>
> Some skills in this game are slow to land for a very good reason and necro is not the only class having them. The damage of these skills is so high that the slow cast animation is warranted otherwise I don't see why ,this ability to bypass the original design of skills, is not extended to other professions.
>
> Give quickness spam to an ele and let's see if the "community" like to be insta downed by a churning earth or be totalized by a couple of Dragon's tooth
>
> But did you know why reaper was given quickness? it has to do with some attacks in reaper shroud itself.
>
>
People climbed to Legendary on Power Reaper in PoF before Reaper's Onslaught was changed to add permanent quickness.
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> @"Shao.7236" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"Shao.7236" said:
> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > Nothing serious is happening to rev. The devs don't think it's over powered, just that the best players favor rev, and the best players tend to win.
> > >
> > > Hypothetically, what would you nerf without killing the class. Because a Rev (More like Herald only) success often depends on how reckless it's opponents are.
> > >
> > > All I'm ever seeing is complains that are easily circumvented given the players care enough to pay attention.
> >
> > If you're a condition player there's no circumventing Infused Light. It's a catch 22, you either do enough damage to pressure them into using Infused Light undoing all of the damage you have done and your conditions are about to do, or you just don't do damage to them, at which point you might as well not fight and just go elsewhere. It was less of an issue when damage values were at a point where even with a full Infused Light heal your damage output could still overwhelm them before it when off cooldown.
> >
> > There's no real fix except undoing the abomination that was the megabalance.
> >
> > Nothing serious is happening to Rev, because as we all know rev is a class favored by only the best of players and the best players tend to win, so sayeth the High Priest of Balance Lord CMC His Holiness.
>
> Poison does reduce it's efficiency though, tickling sure is better than blasting through the options. That was honestly the premise of dealing with any in the first place, by saying that you could simply mash through was the core issue of the game before hand for any professions before and the reason why people were complaining to no end, with that saying it means that if we take care of one problem, we get another because Anet did remove a lot of power creep.
Tickling will never out DPS the Mallyx heal, which means they will never need to use Infuse Light. If you've done enough damage to scare him into using Infused Light he's going to heal to full regardless of if poison is on him. There's also classes like Condition Mesmer that has garbage weapon skills in terms of damage output that rely on a 24 second cooldown Cry of Frustration for lethal damage. There's no capacity to tickling at all on that build. That class:s damage is literally not designed around it.
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> @"Shao.7236" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > Nothing serious is happening to rev. The devs don't think it's over powered, just that the best players favor rev, and the best players tend to win.
>
> Hypothetically, what would you nerf without killing the class. Because a Rev (More like Herald only) success often depends on how reckless it's opponents are.
>
> All I'm ever seeing is complains that are easily circumvented given the players care enough to pay attention.
If you're a condition player there's no circumventing Infused Light. It's a catch 22, you either do enough damage to pressure them into using Infused Light undoing all of the damage you have done and your conditions are about to do, or you just don't do damage to them, at which point you might as well not fight and just go elsewhere. It was less of an issue when damage values were at a point where even with a full Infused Light heal your damage output could still overwhelm them before it when off cooldown.
There's no real fix except undoing the abomination that was the megabalance.
Nothing serious is happening to Rev, because as we all know rev is a class favored by only the best of players and the best players tend to win, so sayeth the High Priest of Balance Lord CMC His Holiness.
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Nothing serious is happening to rev. The devs don't think it's over powered, just that the best players favor rev, and the best players tend to win.
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But stuns doing damage is a super unhealthy gameplay mechanic don't cha know? No real competitive game would ever do such a thing.
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FACT: It is a more skillful meta because two players dumping all of their skills off cool down 20 times on each other before someone plusses the fight and kills someone means more skills are cast. FACT.
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> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:
> > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:
> > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > >
> > > > > Also you want to talk about ele, well what about the bunker meta ele days of early GW2? Ele too has had some pretty op builds and everyone remembers the time of bunker meta during vanilla gw2 early in gw2.
> > > >
> > > > He's on about classes being good throughout the game, Ele was trash till they added Celestial into the game, then trash during Season 4 of PvP, and trash for the first 6-12 months from PoF release.
> > > >
> > > > Necro hasn't been bad for so long really
> > >
> > > Well you guys did have weaver which was hella strong for a while and pretty nasty condo with mobility and sustain combined i mean yeah it got nerfed.
> >
> > Again, first 6-12 months of PoF, Weaver was bad, Fireweaver didn't exist for about a year and a half into PoF while Firebrand and Scourge dominated the majority of time now its Tempest/Firebrand and Necro,
>
> Well scourge did get butchered with nerfs though sure it was powerful in WVW but it got butchered real bad in SPVP and PVE, but how much was it of weaver going under the radar because of other broken stuff? how are we to know without data?
>
> After all weaver had some broken stuff.
Sure, Scourge got seriously nerfed. It had core and reaper to fall back on both of which continued to perform really well.
> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:
> > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> >
> > > Also you want to talk about ele, well what about the bunker meta ele days of early GW2? Ele too has had some pretty op builds and everyone remembers the time of bunker meta during vanilla gw2 early in gw2.
> >
> > He's on about classes being good throughout the game, Ele was trash till they added Celestial into the game, then trash during Season 4 of PvP, and trash for the first 6-12 months from PoF release.
> >
> > Necro hasn't been bad for so long really
>
> Well you guys did have weaver which was hella strong for a while and pretty nasty condo with mobility and sustain combined i mean yeah it got nerfed.
>
> Also what kh home said is true, solo nec was a pain because you got ganked because solo nec=free kill.
>
> I'm not saying ele is perfect, god knows tempest could use some improvements but lets not pretend nec is god mod in all means pls because that is not true.
Solo necro was never a free kill in PoF. Bad necros who open the midfight by immediately charging away from the rest of their team onto the middle of the node were free kills.
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> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > @"Axl.8924" said:
> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > > > Engineer, thief, necro, and mesmer nerfs. Warrior gets a bone thrown its way. Revenant untouched.
> > >
> > > You might as well delete nec if you nerf em the way people want because you take out the reward part of the reaper.
> > >
> > > Risk: Very slow melee class a slow-moving monster who can take a hit, if you take out the dmg and sustain you got a target dummy.
> > >
> > > If you nerf lich, you take out the reward part as it got a super long cd and its duration was already cut.
> > >
> > > I predict that nec is gonna be dumpster tier again and become a target dummy since noobs do nothing but QQ.
> > >
> > > Want to know why so many are leaving GW2? because balance is atrocious like really atrocious worse than wow.
> > >
> > > Class balance is basically this: Warrior WAA I can't kill a guardian nerf Next patch guardian gets deleted from SPVP and guardian cries because they were nerfed in a way that was unnecessary and breaks the class more. It's like trying to cure a blister on your hand by cutting off a person's arm, without actually looking at the symptoms and problem and analyzing the best action.
> > >
> > > I don't believe for a second that there couldn't have been better ways of nerf scourge without deleting it in pve with dmg, and for sure Anet needs to make sure to keep reaper dmg intact since it's supposed to be scary. Imagine if a reaper that's easily ragdolled loses quickness and all damage on reaper shroud, you'd end up with a laughing stock of a class, and an unfun class to PVP with.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, we got issues with people being put with veteran PVP players who have builds which are good at side node vs people with classes who aren't effective at side node and get stomped hard without a clue why because they get high-end veteran players and end up ragequitting because they aren't really learning how to play
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Necromancer has never been dumpster tier.
>
> It was back when dmg in PVP was power crept to an extreme, making them extremely easy kills, and it will be if they delete the dmg.
>
> How many times has Anet nerfed things in the wrong way? I don't for a minute trust anet not to mess up.
>
> Anet messed up with warrior mesmers elementalists Thief class Nec Not once but many times. Sometimes they nerf the wrong thing which has been called out by people and it was literally the wrong thing, which is because they listen to Q_Q and not people who play the actual class.
>
> I've heard from me on how to actually fix it, and we can only hope they do some of the changes which actually fix the problem not the symptoms only.
>
> A good example: People have pointed out the radius on scourge was an issue, and they gutted everything else, so why expect differently performance-wise from ANET?
>
> Nerfing dmg won't fix the issue of Reaper, because it will be mired by issues with life force gen and nerfing damage will just make it not worth using for the risk such as taking away quickness but leaving weapons slow or taking away damage but having 10s CD for low dmg on a weapon that's supposed to be it's special in a meta where it's tied to 2 things, which is why that is a bad idea. You create a slow monster who hits like a noodle and your special wouldn't be able to kill anyone.
>
> It's also why some thief players argue against deleting stealth completely because they are meant to be tricksters who hide and run and attack from behind. A lot of players want to win and hate losing, and sometimes it's just easier to complain and get something that beats you deleted.
>
> Back when the power creep happens, nec couldn't keep up with the current power creep of boon spam invuln spams and other stuff, and back in vanilla nec was trash in PVE and still has most didn't want. It's also the reason why druid lovers including me want druid spec to be able to have some effectiveness in PVP without being considered op.
Necromancer was various degrees strong throughout core. Pretty sure Condi Reaper was excellent throughout most if not all of HoT. Scourge was the king of power creep coming right out of the gates during PoF as hands down the best build in the game and stayed as one of the best builds for a long long time. Power reaper became viable, ranked more so than ATs with the change to Reaper's Onslaught grandmaster trait. Core got a deathshroud rework that made it an excellent build and potentially the best necromancer build during the final days before megabalance.
Seriously, necro has probably never been truly bad. Scourge got focused by entire teams because it was so consistently strong that if you _didn't_ rush it as soon as possible it would wipe your entire team if you didn't have support, making it the highest priority target outside of maybe like a FA Weaver or Power Mesmer. Same was true of reaper to a lesser degree. Sure scourge fell out of favor with the self shade removal, but it had great builds to fall back on that went on to do excellent in rank and win plenty of MATs.
And necro in general came out of the megabalance VERY strong due to how much more potent shroud becomes as a mechanic when everyone's DPS was lowered.
Seriously, necros have probably never been truly bad the way other classes have been throughout various points in the game. It's never felt anywhere near as bad as, say, Elementalist and Revenant during the first 6 months of PoF.
Also not saying necro is necessarily deserving of nerfs right now or that my list of classes is a good list of what needs to be nerfed. Notice how I specifically say Revenant will be left unnerfed.
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> @"Axl.8924" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > Engineer, thief, necro, and mesmer nerfs. Warrior gets a bone thrown its way. Revenant untouched.
>
> You might as well delete nec if you nerf em the way people want because you take out the reward part of reaper.
>
> Risk: Very slow melee class a slow-moving monster who can take a hit, if you take out the dmg and sustain you got a target dummy.
>
> If you nerf lich, you take out the reward part as it got a super long cd and its duration was already cut.
>
> I predict that nec is gonna be dumpster tier again and become a target dummy since noobs do nothing but QQ.
>
> Want to know why so many are leaving GW2? because balance is atrocious like really atrocious worse than wow.
>
> Class balance is basically this: Warrior WAA i can't kill a guardian nerf Next patch guardian gets deleted from SPVP and guardian cries because they were nerfed in a way that was unnecessary and breaks the class more. It's like trying to cure a blister on your hand by cutting off a person's arm, without actually looking at the symptoms and problem and analyzing the best action.
>
> I don't believe for a second that there couldn't have been better ways of nerf scourge without deleting it in pve with dmg, and for sure Anet needs to make sure to keep reaper dmg intact since it's supposed to be scary. Imagine if a reaper that's easily ragdolled loses quickness and all damage on reaper shroud, you'd end up with a laughing stock of a class, and an unfun class to PVP with.
>
> Furthermore, we got issues with people being put with veteran PVP players who have builds which are good at side node vs people with classes who aren't effective at side node and get stomped hard without a clue why because they get high-end veteran players and end up ragequitting because they aren't really learning how to play
>
>
Necromancer has never been dumpster tier.
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Engineer, thief, necro, and mesmer nerfs. Warrior gets a bone thrown it's way. Revenant untouched.
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> @"Rukia.4802" said:
> > @"Hogwarts Zebra.8597" said:
> > mirage lost a dodge, chrono lost self-shatter, and core is still useless. still usable in gold or with highly organized premades, but for solo q bascially take your old rating and subtract 200 and that's where you'll end up if u main mesmer
> >
> > in general tho diversity has greatly increased imo, mes and warr are the only classes without a meta build
>
> They have meta builds they just aren't meta because they're outclassed, just to avoid confusion here..
I think you're not understanding what meta means.
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> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> I like how the sec word of the name of this post is changed into " KITTEN " but not if you are looking at the post through proffesion, even forums are bugged lul
Ha. It's amazing they censor that.
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> @"Taril.8619" said:
> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:
> > > @"Yoci.2481" said:
> > > Super speed on shatter should just be the default behaviour of clones, it shouldn't be a Chronomancer trait.
> >
> > thats too much, but they could make them gradually gain speed as time goes on when shattered, so they dont end up running circles for 10s untill they comit seppuku
>
> I dunno...
>
> I don't think it would be OP for Warrior's Burst skills to have to wait for a Superspeeded NPC to reach a target, or a Thief Steal, or Engie Toolbelt skills etc...
>
> Why would it be such a problem for Mesmers to be able to reliably land their class mechanic (If the target doesn't have Superspeed themselves, or kill the clones, or CC them, or teleport or do one of the 1000000000 things that can bug out AI...)
>
> Especially when Clones are still squishy af.
>
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > Holy kitten Clones Freaking Suck
>
> Yup.
>
> Mesmer's entire class mechanic is a janky mess.
>
> Clones are awful due to being AI (Thus at the mercy of all the issues with AI) as well as squishy af, but yet still a considerable part of the classes overall output.
>
> Similarly, Phantasms are also trash, because while they functionally don't work as a proper AI unit since they're more or less a glorified animation for the skill these days, they're still at the mercy of AI issues, such as wonky pathing, terrible targeting and horrendous positioning (Phantom Berzerker CAN cleave through a bunch of enemies, but will it? You bet your kitten it won't)
>
> Meanwhile, you also have absolutely mind boggling interactions, such as Clones being able to apply fully damaging Conditions, while at the same time they're prevented from doing Power damage. So what's the deal? Are they supposed to be doing damage or not?
>
> Then you have the plethora of issues that is, if they're balanced around how long they take to get to the target (I.e. They're glorified projectiles) then melee usage to shotgun them becomes too effective a means to utilize them.
>
> All this, is before you even reach all the other problems that Mesmer faces as a class (Mirage having its damage tied to Clone uptime and using **Dodges**, but it turns out gaining Offensive capabilities while using a Defensive tool is OP, who'd have thought? Not like Necro's shroud has been getting nerfed for 8 years because of thee exact same problem... Then Chrono... Ughh... The smallest and clunkiest wells in the game, a super clunky massive impact skill that is hampered by ping and can be stopped by killing an object in PvP and a pile of garbage traits and gimmicky effects...)
>
> It sucks, especially when the theme of the class is not only fairly unique in video games, but is also heckin' cool (Like, Rogue x Mage = Mesmer. Which is heckin' cool af. Like, imagine Professor X + Gambit + Psylocke combined into one class) and then we end up with this janky mess (Which instead of feeling like a mashup of cool X-Men, feels more like a mashup of the "Superheroes" Doorman + The Red Bee + Arm-Fall-Off-Boy)
Mesmer condition weapon auto attacks are balanced around the clones attacking the target. Before the megabalance I made a thread comparing a lot of different meta builds and their damage per second output.
Mesmer looked like this.
> Mesmer
> Condition Mirage Axe: 1492
> Condition Mirage Staff No Clones with bounces: 846 (For bounced to occur and for the mesmer to get the 2x hit bonus assume 400 range or less. Safe to assume ~425 without bounces)
> Condition Mirage Staff 3 Clones no mesmer with bounces: 1202
> Condition Mirage Staff 3 Clones with bounces: 1814 (I'm not sure how, but despite the mesmer doing about 800 dps and the clones doing about 1200 dps, which logically assumes the total should be 2000 dps, 200 dps goes missing some how)
> Condition Mirage Staff 3 Clones Ambush Spam: 2465
> Condition Mirage Scepter no clones : 675
> Condition Mirage Scepter 3 clones: 984
> Condition Mirage Scepter 3 clones with ambush spam: 1164
> Condition Mirage Scepter 3 clones ambush spam on a moving target: 1439
> Condition Mirage Scepter Clones Only: 498
> Condition Mirage Pistol 4 into Staff Ambush spam: 2452
> Power Mesmer Max Range Greatsword Berserker's Amulet: 2170
> Power Mesmer Sword Berserker's Amulet: 2190
> Power Mesmer Berserker's Blurred Frenzy into Sword Autos: 3513
> Power Mesmer GS burst combo (LOL): 16,400
Whereas other classes tended to look like this;
> Ranger
> Rock Gazelle: 1270
> Smokescale: 670
> Siamoth: 721
> Owl: 769
> Ranger Greatsword: 1774
> Ranger Greatsword with Rock Gazelle: 2857
> Ranger Quickening Zephyr into Maul into greatsword autos with Rock Gazelle: 4452
> Axe Autos No Bounce: 1626
> Axe Autos no bounce with Rock Gazelle: 2283
> Ranger Longbow max range autos: 1464
> Ranger Longbow max range Rapid Fire into autos: 1885
> Ranger Longbow Max Range Rapid Fire into autos with Smokescale: 2615
> Sic Em Soulbeast Merged Quickening Zephyr Rapid Fire into autos: 5232
Post mega balance mesmer looks like this;
Some quick and dirty damage per second numbers post mega balance.
Some quick and dirty damage per second numbers post mega balance.
> Wizard's Amulet Condition Mirage
> Axe: 900
> Scepter with three clones: 850
> Staff with three clones: 1,500
>
> Berserker's Amulet Power Greatsword
> Greatsword Autos Max Range: 1,600
>
> Compared to something like
>
> Core Ranger with Owl on Demolisher's Amulet
> Greatsword autoattack chain: 2,400
> Axe Autoattack: 2,000
>
> Berserker's Amulet Grenades Holosmith:
> Grenade Auto: 2,200
> Photon Forge Auto: 1,900
>
> Berserker's Amulet Power Herald
> Sword 2,000
>
> Sage Amulet Condi Herald
> Mace Auto: 1,500
Clones shouldn't do condition damage for game health reasons as mesmer shouldn't be able to whittle down opponents with clones with way Pre Megabalance Staff Mirage could but the damage should 100% be rolled back into the mesmer themself. Because the actual output of mesmer weapons is actually very low including clones and without the boost from the clones they would be outrageously undertuned.
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> @"Strider.7849" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > Holy kitten Clones Freaking Suck
> >
> > Ever since the mega balance Mirage has finally been pushed off Infinite Horizon. I've almost entirely quit the game at this point due to how philosophically misguided I feel the current direction is but I have played a bit after the megabalance. And with Elusive Mind being "meta", at least as far as mirage is concerned, the lack of quality of life on Clones and Shatters is brutally apparent.
> >
> > I dunno why I hadn't really noticed it to the degree I did my last few sessions playing and it's old news to most. Perhaps it's because I started playing Mesmer in PvP on Condi Chrono during Heart of Thorns, which was more about having a ton of Phantasms to shatter that had nice meaty health pools alongside Super Speed on shatter. And yeah, Mirage's Infinite Horizon gave clones evade so that kept them alive. And when I played power core, the point was always to just IMMEDIATELY shot gun clones in people's face so it was also less of an issue.
> >
> > But good lord the whole profession mechanic just suuuuuucks without the quality of life. Shatters will never be able to catch a moving opponent. Literally coded into the foundation of the skill as clones run at movement speed. Imagine actually trying to use your class mechanic against an aware functional human player, you're at 900 range on either greatsword, scepter or staff alongside your clones and you shatter. Which is theoretically an attack that should be feasibly possible and feasible and good as getting a full three clones takes time and skill investment. This attack will literally never land because the clones can simply not reach the target if he just runs away. Like imagine if you could literally just outrun Kill Shot, or Steal, or Spear of Justice, or any of Engineer's offensive toolbelt skills. Not like positioning yourself with line of sight or no port or outranging it. But in the sense that as long as you are pressing W and not running directly into the direction of the attack, it literally can never hit you.
> >
> > Even ranger pets have skills that allow for significantly higher success rate for landing attacks. I have seen the deer move absurd distances in a fraction of a second just to make sure it knocks me into the air. It's no wonder the only thing power mesmer has been able to use at a viable level is just Mirror Blading at point blank range and Mind Wracking the exact frame a clone is considered spawned.
> >
> > And that doesn't even cover things like just clones being so easy to cleave. Against things like a grenade holosmith it actually cleaves so hard and so much nonstop that it will kill your clones before they render and actually show themselves as activated on your UI. It doesn't just cleave clones it prevents them from properly spawning at all. Clones need more substantial health bars.
> >
> > I've actually really come around that clones should be indestructible so long as they don't actually deal damage or conditions on their own, and then rebalance the condition mesmer weapons to no longer be reliant on clone as turrets for proper DPS. It actually seems completely contradictory. Illusionists should WANT people wasting time attacking their illusions as much as possible because it's an illusion. It's a waste of time and effort, the illusionist should want you wasting time attacking illusions instead of them while they freecast on you. Whereas in GW2 like a ton of things it's complete backwards, if you can obliterate the illusionist's illusions with brute force and damage you deny his most powerful abilities. You can't attack Warrior Adrenaline you can only avoid what they try to do with it when they spend it. It should be the same for mesmers.
> >
> > The offensive shatters in general need a serious revamp, not just Chronomancer but on Core itself. I actually wouldn't be opposed to the offensive shatters getting cast times as long as it turned your clones into projectiles that moved at a reasonably fast pace with good tracking that can't just be nullified with "W". Mind Wrack could turn clones into nasty looking jaded purple crystals that launch at the target, the kind Jade Armors and Bow enemies cast. Cry of Frustration could turn them into Chaos Vortex looking projectiles that do the same.
> >
> > You could even give the mesmer some stylish casting animations when they do it.
> > 
> > 
> >
> > Projectiles is probably not the best choice specifically due to projectile destruction and nullification but I mean really it would be significantly more reliable than the current form of the class mechanic, and honestly it would have a better shot of actually hitting a target inside the mosh pit of a team fight. It's actually incredibly how much of a seriously needed bandaid things like Time Catches Up, Infinite Horizon giving clones the ability to dodge, or Greatsword being able to almost instantly spawn a clone and shatter it at point blank range.
> >
> > TLDR the class mechanic feels completely backwards both mechanically and thematically. Clones are too fragile. Offensive Shatters are completely worthless without shotgunning them in someone's face at point blank range. All of this should change.
>
> Pre-mirage, clones never really did catch a competent opponent, especially if you shattered from range. Chrono giving superspeed on shatters helped a bit, but in general shatters need to be set up. Infinite horizon is still strong, if they return the extra bar of dodge energy they took, this will be oppressive again, I'm sure they'll revert this change eventually when they start working on the game again.
>
> Seeing a deer "run absurd distances to knock you into the air" is just wrong. They have a charge which more often then not leads to the pet abandoning the player. If it lands it dazes you. The lift into the air is a ranger controlled active (read F2).
>
> Don't mean to sound like the bad guy here, but there is a lot wrong with Mesmer currently and things that can be improved but landing shatters is not one of them. What the shatters do when they do land is a different story, the damage difference between a one illusion mind wrack and a 3 clone mind wrack isn't rewarding enough. Cry of frustrations condi duration base is too low and falls off before someone can cast a skill. Clones I feel could have their base sustain increased (perhaps tweak scaling), and their condition durations as well (that would need to be also adjusted on mirage as it could be too strong there if second dodge was returned).
>
> What I personally want returned is chronomancer being more supportive and their wells functionality improved. The old support Chrono was a lot of fun to play. Also miss the old well of precognition, I used to zerg dive with that and set up bombing locations with my roaming group.
>
> With that said, i'm not a Mesmer main, but it is my second best class I duel/roam on and have played it since near launch in all environments.
Before I dig into the meat of your post, I have stealthed while fighting a ranger at waterfall, rotated to Graveyard where I unstealthed and then watched in real time as the deer literally rushed towards me from the node at Waterfall to the ledge overlooking Graveyard in under 0.25 seconds to CC me the moment I unstealthed. Ranger pets can do some absurd shenanigans.
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Holy Crap Clones Freaking Suck
Ever since the mega balance Mirage has finally been pushed off Infinite Horizon. I've almost entirely quit the game at this point due to how philosophically misguided I feel the current direction is but I have played a bit after the megabalance. And with Elusive Mind being "meta", at least as far as mirage is concerned, the lack of quality of life on Clones and Shatters is brutally apparent.
I dunno why I hadn't really noticed it to the degree I did my last few sessions playing and it's old news to most. Perhaps it's because I started playing Mesmer in PvP on Condi Chrono during Heart of Thorns, which was more about having a ton of Phantasms to shatter that had nice meaty health pools alongside Super Speed on shatter. And yeah, Mirage's Infinite Horizon gave clones evade so that kept them alive. And when I played power core, the point was always to just IMMEDIATELY shot gun clones in people's face so it was also less of an issue.
But good lord the whole profession mechanic just suuuuuucks without the quality of life. Shatters will never be able to catch a moving opponent. Literally coded into the foundation of the skill as clones run at movement speed. Imagine actually trying to use your class mechanic against an aware functional human player, you're at 900 range on either greatsword, scepter or staff alongside your clones and you shatter. Which is theoretically an attack that should be feasibly possible and feasible and good as getting a full three clones takes time and skill investment. This attack will literally never land because the clones can simply not reach the target if he just runs away. Like imagine if you could literally just outrun Kill Shot, or Steal, or Spear of Justice, or any of Engineer's offensive toolbelt skills. Not like positioning yourself with line of sight or no port or outranging it. But in the sense that as long as you are pressing W and not running directly into the direction of the attack, it literally can never hit you.
Even ranger pets have skills that allow for significantly higher success rate for landing attacks. I have seen the deer move absurd distances in a fraction of a second just to make sure it knocks me into the air. It's no wonder the only thing power mesmer has been able to use at a viable level is just Mirror Blading at point blank range and Mind Wracking the exact frame a clone is considered spawned.
And that doesn't even cover things like just clones being so easy to cleave. Against things like a grenade holosmith it actually cleaves so hard and so much nonstop that it will kill your clones before they render and actually show themselves as activated on your UI. It doesn't just cleave clones it prevents them from properly spawning at all. Clones need more substantial health bars.
I've actually really come around that clones should be indestructible so long as they don't actually deal damage or conditions on their own, and then rebalance the condition mesmer weapons to no longer be reliant on clone as turrets for proper DPS. It actually seems completely contradictory. Illusionists should WANT people wasting time attacking their illusions as much as possible because it's an illusion. It's a waste of time and effort, the illusionist should want you wasting time attacking illusions instead of them while they freecast on you. Whereas in GW2 like a ton of things it's complete backwards, if you can obliterate the illusionist's illusions with brute force and damage you deny his most powerful abilities. You can't attack Warrior Adrenaline you can only avoid what they try to do with it when they spend it. It should be the same for mesmers.
The offensive shatters in general need a serious revamp, not just Chronomancer but on Core itself. I actually wouldn't be opposed to the offensive shatters getting cast times as long as it turned your clones into projectiles that moved at a reasonably fast pace with good tracking that can't just be nullified with "W". Mind Wrack could turn clones into nasty looking jaded purple crystals that launch at the target, the kind Jade Armors and Bow enemies cast. Cry of Frustration could turn them into Chaos Vortex looking projectiles that do the same.
You could even give the mesmer some stylish casting animations when they do it.
Projectiles is probably not the best choice specifically due to projectile destruction and nullification but I mean really it would be significantly more reliable than the current form of the class mechanic, and honestly it would have a better shot of actually hitting a target inside the mosh pit of a team fight. It's actually incredibly how much of a seriously needed bandaid things like Time Catches Up, Infinite Horizon giving clones the ability to dodge, or Greatsword being able to almost instantly spawn a clone and shatter it at point blank range.
TLDR the class mechanic feels completely backwards both mechanically and thematically. Clones are too fragile. Offensive Shatters are completely worthless without shotgunning them in someone's face at point blank range. All of this should change.
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> @"ThatOtherAlt.2984" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > Guys. Just quit.
>
> I object to "best dressed Mesmer."
You can be wrong. I'm okay with that.
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> @"Daishi.6027" said:
> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > Frankly, I always thought Mirage's focused on accenting the profession's capacity to be a mobile, evasive, condition skirmisher the obvious draw back should be towards Mirage should be a serious vitality penalty. You'd become as evasive as a thief, but you'd have their same health pool so that if you screw up on a mirage it's significantly more punishing.
> >
> > It's more in line with the philosophy of the elite spec while providing very clear tangible weakness. It even fits thematically because as a Mirage you have the capacity to be come intangible, but you're less stable when attacks do land.
>
> I would 10,000x be down for that were they to give mirage the thieves level of on demand access to evades.
Having draw backs or trade offs doesn't NECESSARILY mean screwing with the profession mechanic. I've never agreed with Arenanet's approach to this at all. I've thought just in terms of how laser focused the spec is, Druid never really needed a real trade off due to the fact that taking Druid means you will NEVER do as much damage as a core ranger, let alone Soulbeast. Taking druid already has strengths and weaknesses just due to the nature of their traits and skills and unique weapon. The main problem with Druid wasn't a lack of trade off but how it is both terrible at actually supporting other players in PvP and also GW2's inherent problem where anything that heals others a lot becomes an absurdly resilient bunker as opposed to a squishy healer who can keep the team alive but is susceptible to being focused like how healers work in other games.
Another one for example is I've always believed Holosmith should have some sort of healing penalty due to how the elite spec is designed around being a higher risk+higher reward super DPS augment to core engineer. Very high and easy damage, but you _need_ to land it correctly and avoid counterattacks properly because you just wouldn't have the sustain of a core engineer, let alone a scrapper.
You can build in strengths and weaknesses to the elite specs without having to gut the class mechanic entirely. Sometimes the elite spec altering the profession mechanic is the right thing to do, sometimes it's not. That's always been my philosophy.
If the capabilities of a core profession look like this;
Elite specs should in turn be altering the profession like this.
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edit: misread a comment
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Frankly, I always thought Mirage's focused on accenting the profession's capacity to be a mobile, evasive, condition skirmisher the obvious draw back should be towards Mirage should be a serious vitality penalty. You'd become as evasive as a thief, but you'd have their same health pool so that if you screw up on a mirage it's significantly more punishing.
It's more in line with the philosophy of the elite spec while providing very clear tangible weakness. It even fits thematically because as a Mirage you have the capacity to be come intangible, but you're less stable when attacks do land.
It certainly would make more sense than looking at a spec that's supposed to make them an evasion condition skirmisher, and making it _worse_ at evasion (On top of the mega balance patch gutting it to having the absolute lowest condition damage output in the game).
Gutting shatters like they did with Chrono or fucking with the clones is a stupid idea. Just incentivize Cry of Frustration and Ineptitude so that Mirage's aren't running Deceptive Evasion by default and they're actually shattering. It's a 24 second primary DPS cooldown that's supposed to be your main source of damage on Mesmer/Mirage and it barely does any damage when fully spec'd into enhancing it.
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@"UNOwen.7132" and @"viquing.8254" are currently engaged in a 1v1 on the PvP Subforum's side node. Looks like they're going to be here for a while. Let's move over to the team fight on mid and see if anything is happening there.
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Guys. Just quit.
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> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:
> > Your superior "work for your kill" perma bunker meta isn't saving the game mode and it's still dying.
> Because you objectively thinks that it wasn't dying prepatch and it was enjoyable ?
> Mean we should had a mota prepatch and after patch just for loling comparison.
And you think megabalance saved it?
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> @"Grimjack.8130" said:
>
>
> S
> Condi Rev
> Holo
> Ranger
> Condi Thief
>
> A
> LR Weaver
> Tempest
> Power Thief
> Reaper
> Soulbeast
>
> B
> CoreNecro
> Firebrand
> Power Rev
> Renegade
>
> C
> Scrapper
> Druid
> Deadeye
> Mender Core Guard
>
> D
> Mirage
> Weaver
> DH
>
> F
> Warrior in general
> Chrono
> Scourge
>
> Nerf everything from S and A
> Buff everything from D and F
> Slight nerfs and buffs to certain skills in B and C, but thats where you want to be.
> Unhealthy gameplay can be nerfed when a class is still deserving of buffs still.
> Not in any particular order within the tiers.
This is the best tier list in the thread imo.
[Doc] Mesmer changes suggestions for CmC
in Mesmer
Posted
This thread is much ado about nothing and a complete waste of time.
It's actually kind of insulting to ask people to spend good time out of their finite lifespans to write something to someone they aren't going to even bother reading.