mortrialus.3062

The thing you don't understand is that Rev is a class that's favored more by the best players, and the best players tend to win.

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > > > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" man, you may be low gold in game, but you sure is legendary rating in the forum, what's your main? forum warrior? where you find the confidence to call other bias, when you are most bias person in this forum, you can't read irony or something?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > also look at your posts post feb 25th, why don't you start arguing with yourself in your own thread

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Honestly speaking....you complained about damage and sustain on other professions even before Feb25th....yet you call other biased...maybe it's time for you to learn something more than bull's rush/Rampage spellbreaker

> > > > >

> > > > > you still havent explain why you prefer a less skilled meta

> > > >

> > > > So huge damage is skilled meta...the lockdown builds were skilled...

> > >

> > > wait so landing huge damage is less skilled then no damage passive faceroll tanks? isnt there more lockdown builds now then before feb 25th

> > > you are not making sense and contradict yourself so much

> > >

> >

> > If landing huge damage is always skilled...I don't know why people were complaining about specs like Fresh air and Lightning rod, the same people who claim there is not enough dmg...are the same who asked for LR nerfs not long ago....that is a contradiction but it's easy to see the reason : it wasn't their class doing the dmg.

> >

> > In the end landing huge dmg is skilled...as long as it's your class doing it..otherwise nerf it . Now stop going in circles with your charade, unless you can explain why you were asking for nerfs on LR while here you ask for dmg to be reverted

>

> i can easily 1v1 warrior on fresh air pre feb 25th, it was so easy, only thing that made fresh air unviable is rev/thief/mes

> builds in the same big damage category doesn't mean they require equal skill. because firebrand and tempest and bunker soulbeast and condi rev all require the same effort to play, use the tiny brain of yours, dude.

 

Speaking of which [here's WoodenPotatoes killing @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" in a 1v1. ](

)

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > > > > Warrior has to work for it's damage and is incredibly satisfying to combo and kill people with.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Warhorn tempest has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Meditrapper guardian has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The issue is they forgot that ranger and holosmith have 40604707004047047074070470470 free HPS and ranger/thief/holo have 460470 blocks/evades/invuls/dodges that have no limit.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > They need to put a limit on the amount of attacks a dodge/block/invul can negate.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your desire to have GW2 be a game of "If you chain attacks 1a, 2a, 7h, 12c, 92q, 5u in this exact order in under 3.5 seconds you might get a lucky crit and do 15% of your opponent's health and if any part of that hoes wrong they'll remain at 100% health for 20 seconds until your cooldowns are up and you can try again" the way you want it is terrible design. This is not what a good competitive game looks like.

> > > > >

> > > > > And what is good design?

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) "I have failed my burst..let me sit in stealth and let me try again and again"

> > > > > 2) "I can keep attacking while the game sustain itself for me, I don't even need to dodge"

> > > > > 3) "My l33t burst failed...it's ok I have infinite evade/block or can use my 2nd health bar and tank everything"

> > > > >

> > > > > I tell you what is good design : Huge burst on others= easy death for you and none of the builds seen before the patch were indication of it, that's what upset me there shouldn't be any High reward= low risk kitten in this game! But there is still and it was getting abused to no end before the huge patch , we had specs doing way too much dmg for the sustain they had.

> > > > >

> > > > > If Anet would stop with their mantra : "instant gratification builds"

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Maybe we would get somewhere.......

> > > >

> > > > Funny that you bring up fighting games. [You want to see a good break down on what a good competitive fight should look like? ](

)

> > > >

> > > > And this video also showcases the kinds of mind games and combat flow that GW2's pre-megabalance patch was significantly closer to. Of course you'd probably scream "OMG that one attack did 25% health that's OP!" and "OMG The OTHER player did 33% of the other player's health in ONE SECOND?! NERF!"

> > > >

> > > > This breakdown of a few ways a fight can play out explains a lot of what makes competitive games fun and why GW2's PvP was significantly more fun before the megabalance patch. Attacks mean something. Any attack landing has immediate ramifications on the rest of the fight. Any attack missing can have immediate ramifications on the flow of combat, especially if you whiff and you get punished. And regardless of who landed their attack the fight is progressing towards an actual victor.

> > > >

> > > > Here's the thing. GW2's actual mechanics are pretty simple. Every weapon kit has an autoattack of varying damage and utility based on a variety of factors such as range and the mechanical purpose of the kit. The rest of their kit tend to have a 1-2 very serious damage dealing skills, and then a mix of defensive, mobility, ranged and crowd control skills. Everything typically does a bit of damage but it's your main damage skills that are, well, your main source of damage. And all of them are just one keybind away. GW2 doesn't make you do Forward Quarter Circle, or Forward, Down, Down-Forward, or Quarter Circle Half Circle Back to use skills, let alone perform One Frame Links.

> > > >

> > > > Sure, you could Arcing Slice someone for 6k-10k damage. But it was never as simple just "oh I press button and haha big damage go brrrrrr." It was a dance between "Okay I can Arcing Slice this guardian but they have Shield of Wrath up which will negate my attack and if I'm close to him and don't manage to break his shield it'll suffer huge damage, so I'm going to stay out of his range until it explodes and then try and bait their last dodge with a Blade Trail into Whirlwind Blade, I do need to be careful though because if they use Zealot's Blade while I try to Blade Trail it'll just destroy my attack, and if I can get him to spend his last dodge I can land Arcing Slice."

> > > >

> > > > GW2's combat more closely resembled the way fights played out in a fighting game. High stakes, fast paced, and a mind game of positioning and working to land your high value skills while trying to use positioning, your dodges, and your defensive cooldowns to avoid their high damage skills because if it lands it will end the fight while they do the same. It was about knowing your enemy's potential and knowing what is punishable, knowing when they whiff a skill or poorly waste a defensive skill you've seriously shifted the outcome of the fight.

> > > >

> > > > GW2's combat now is like if they tried to import the worst aspects of competitive RTS games into GW2; Fights can take half an hour before they can end. There isn't any real decisive blow or impressive kill shot, but about performing thousands of low value actions over those 30 minutes. Skills are no longer akin to actually attacking someone, but more akin to making a worker at your base and carry the same level of excitement. Even MOBAs have significantly faster and more exciting combat than the current state of GW2's combat. Sure a MOBA match can last for a half hour but there's tons of individual fights and fights between champions can end in under five seconds.

> > > >

> > > > Even if the next balance patch perfectly balanced the game where every class and spec can perform equally well competitively, the environment post megabalance will never be good. It will never be anything more than a boring, slushy, slow, slog of a game.

> > >

> > > So it's fine if say a warrior deal 10k dmg on say an ele ok......so because ele by design is more squishy it should deal 2x that dmg and on the same CD of 6-8s and from range being a caster class after all am I right?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Because the Elementalist could see the Arcing Slice wind up, avoid it, and then counter with a Fire Sword 2+Glyph of Elemental Power+Primordial Stance combo now that the warrior's main damage dealing attack is spent and they're safe to go on the offense and could potentially win the fight right there depending on the Warrior's remaining defensive options.

> >

> > You've basically dodged the entire point of my post to get into weeds about specific builds. There's always too strong builds that should be nerfed. There's always too weak builds that should see buffs. But regardless of balance the principal of combat and the flow of gameplay were significantly more sound than they are now. Even if next balance patch perfectly balanced everything, combat is such a slow, boring, slushy slog that it will still not be good. We are all 2015 Cele Eles now.

>

> You accuse me of dodging question and going into specific builds while you use specific builds to "justify" your idea of balance. **Stop trying to act smart and answer my question**

>

> I want to know the reasoning why a warrior should deal that much damage.....just say it, don't use builds to justify your ideas!

 

My example was a realistic breakdown of the push and poll of a fight between two popular builds before the megabalance.

 

But if you want a general breakdown on why that skill hit as hard as it used to?

 

1. Unless we're talking about dedicated support fighting a dedicated support all builds should be able to kill each other across every tier of play.

2. Arcing Slice is a burst skill, requiring the build up and spending of adrenaline, which means the value of the skill should be among the highest in the Warrior's repertoire alongside other burst skills.

3. Arcing Slice is a melee skill, and the increased risk of going into melee range and opening yourself up to damage as well as the increased requirement of getting in range vs a range opponent justifies the skill being higher value.

4. Arcing Slice has an execute mechanic, and only does the more higher end values of it's damage potential when the target is below 50% health meaning you if you can avoid being below 50% health when they're trying to use the attack the attack will do significantly less damage than it's higher end potential.

5. Arcing Slice has a very clear and visible wind up animation giving clear indication that that skill is arcing slice and has an animation that barring extreme lag most people can react to and avoid.

6. Arcing Slice could only get that level of damage with Peak Performance as well as a large amount of Might, requiring set up.

 

Again, you've derailed the argument and dragged things out into the weeds.

 

The game shouldn't be "You need to outskill your opponent by 32.78599181% or you two will be in perpetual stalemate" which is where it's been since the MegaBalance. It should be "The more skilled player wins the fight."

 

 

You've got it backwards. You're right in that conquest is primarily a defensive game, and that's why the game needs to be extremely careful about not letting defensively overpowered builds run roughshot over the game mode. [Otherwise you end up with games like this. ](

) The game being enjoyable requires 1v1 builds being capable of killing each other and being very scared of +1s.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > > > Warrior has to work for it's damage and is incredibly satisfying to combo and kill people with.

> > > > >

> > > > > Warhorn tempest has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.

> > > > >

> > > > > Meditrapper guardian has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.

> > > > >

> > > > > The issue is they forgot that ranger and holosmith have 40604707004047047074070470470 free HPS and ranger/thief/holo have 460470 blocks/evades/invuls/dodges that have no limit.

> > > > >

> > > > > They need to put a limit on the amount of attacks a dodge/block/invul can negate.

> > > >

> > > > Your desire to have GW2 be a game of "If you chain attacks 1a, 2a, 7h, 12c, 92q, 5u in this exact order in under 3.5 seconds you might get a lucky crit and do 15% of your opponent's health and if any part of that hoes wrong they'll remain at 100% health for 20 seconds until your cooldowns are up and you can try again" the way you want it is terrible design. This is not what a good competitive game looks like.

> > >

> > > And what is good design?

> > >

> > > 1) "I have failed my burst..let me sit in stealth and let me try again and again"

> > > 2) "I can keep attacking while the game sustain itself for me, I don't even need to dodge"

> > > 3) "My l33t burst failed...it's ok I have infinite evade/block or can use my 2nd health bar and tank everything"

> > >

> > > I tell you what is good design : Huge burst on others= easy death for you and none of the builds seen before the patch were indication of it, that's what upset me there shouldn't be any High reward= low risk kitten in this game! But there is still and it was getting abused to no end before the huge patch , we had specs doing way too much dmg for the sustain they had.

> > >

> > > If Anet would stop with their mantra : "instant gratification builds"

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Maybe we would get somewhere.......

> >

> > Funny that you bring up fighting games. [You want to see a good break down on what a good competitive fight should look like? ](

)

> >

> > And this video also showcases the kinds of mind games and combat flow that GW2's pre-megabalance patch was significantly closer to. Of course you'd probably scream "OMG that one attack did 25% health that's OP!" and "OMG The OTHER player did 33% of the other player's health in ONE SECOND?! NERF!"

> >

> > This breakdown of a few ways a fight can play out explains a lot of what makes competitive games fun and why GW2's PvP was significantly more fun before the megabalance patch. Attacks mean something. Any attack landing has immediate ramifications on the rest of the fight. Any attack missing can have immediate ramifications on the flow of combat, especially if you whiff and you get punished. And regardless of who landed their attack the fight is progressing towards an actual victor.

> >

> > Here's the thing. GW2's actual mechanics are pretty simple. Every weapon kit has an autoattack of varying damage and utility based on a variety of factors such as range and the mechanical purpose of the kit. The rest of their kit tend to have a 1-2 very serious damage dealing skills, and then a mix of defensive, mobility, ranged and crowd control skills. Everything typically does a bit of damage but it's your main damage skills that are, well, your main source of damage. And all of them are just one keybind away. GW2 doesn't make you do Forward Quarter Circle, or Forward, Down, Down-Forward, or Quarter Circle Half Circle Back to use skills, let alone perform One Frame Links.

> >

> > Sure, you could Arcing Slice someone for 6k-10k damage. But it was never as simple just "oh I press button and haha big damage go brrrrrr." It was a dance between "Okay I can Arcing Slice this guardian but they have Shield of Wrath up which will negate my attack and if I'm close to him and don't manage to break his shield it'll suffer huge damage, so I'm going to stay out of his range until it explodes and then try and bait their last dodge with a Blade Trail into Whirlwind Blade, I do need to be careful though because if they use Zealot's Blade while I try to Blade Trail it'll just destroy my attack, and if I can get him to spend his last dodge I can land Arcing Slice."

> >

> > GW2's combat more closely resembled the way fights played out in a fighting game. High stakes, fast paced, and a mind game of positioning and working to land your high value skills while trying to use positioning, your dodges, and your defensive cooldowns to avoid their high damage skills because if it lands it will end the fight while they do the same. It was about knowing your enemy's potential and knowing what is punishable, knowing when they whiff a skill or poorly waste a defensive skill you've seriously shifted the outcome of the fight.

> >

> > GW2's combat now is like if they tried to import the worst aspects of competitive RTS games into GW2; Fights can take half an hour before they can end. There isn't any real decisive blow or impressive kill shot, but about performing thousands of low value actions over those 30 minutes. Skills are no longer akin to actually attacking someone, but more akin to making a worker at your base and carry the same level of excitement. Even MOBAs have significantly faster and more exciting combat than the current state of GW2's combat. Sure a MOBA match can last for a half hour but there's tons of individual fights and fights between champions can end in under five seconds.

> >

> > Even if the next balance patch perfectly balanced the game where every class and spec can perform equally well competitively, the environment post megabalance will never be good. It will never be anything more than a boring, slushy, slow, slog of a game.

>

> So it's fine if say a warrior deal 10k dmg on say an ele ok......so because ele by design is more squishy it should deal 2x that dmg and on the same CD of 6-8s and from range being a caster class after all am I right?

>

>

 

Because the Elementalist could see the Arcing Slice wind up, avoid it, and then counter with a Fire Sword 2+Glyph of Elemental Power+Primordial Stance combo now that the warrior's main damage dealing attack is spent and they're safe to go on the offense and could potentially win the fight right there depending on the Warrior's remaining defensive options.

 

You've basically dodged the entire point of my post to get into weeds about specific builds. There's always too strong builds that should be nerfed. There's always too weak builds that should see buffs. But regardless of balance the principal of combat and the flow of gameplay were significantly more sound than they are now. Even if next balance patch perfectly balanced everything, combat is such a slow, boring, slushy slog that it will still not be good. We are all 2015 Cele Eles now.

> @"fumcheg.1936" said:

> Now is obviously better. Still not good enough but better than it was before. They just need to tune down condi in general and survivability of some specs.

>

> It was the same low skilled trash before but ppl back then didn't have to put any effort and just could do the same skill rotation over and over to destroy other classes that had fewer blocks/invuls/so on. Now they cannot do that (except some broken specs), of course they are unhappy.

 

Before the megabalance patch every class had an excellent, competative, viable build for PvP all the way to the highest tiers. Sometimes several.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > Warrior has to work for it's damage and is incredibly satisfying to combo and kill people with.

> > >

> > > Warhorn tempest has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.

> > >

> > > Meditrapper guardian has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.

> > >

> > > The issue is they forgot that ranger and holosmith have 40604707004047047074070470470 free HPS and ranger/thief/holo have 460470 blocks/evades/invuls/dodges that have no limit.

> > >

> > > They need to put a limit on the amount of attacks a dodge/block/invul can negate.

> >

> > Your desire to have GW2 be a game of "If you chain attacks 1a, 2a, 7h, 12c, 92q, 5u in this exact order in under 3.5 seconds you might get a lucky crit and do 15% of your opponent's health and if any part of that hoes wrong they'll remain at 100% health for 20 seconds until your cooldowns are up and you can try again" the way you want it is terrible design. This is not what a good competitive game looks like.

>

> And what is good design?

>

> 1) "I have failed my burst..let me sit in stealth and let me try again and again"

> 2) "I can keep attacking while the game sustain itself for me, I don't even need to dodge"

> 3) "My l33t burst failed...it's ok I have infinite evade/block or can use my 2nd health bar and tank everything"

>

> I tell you what is good design : Huge burst on others= easy death for you and none of the builds seen before the patch were indication of it, that's what upset me there shouldn't be any High reward= low risk kitten in this game! But there is still and it was getting abused to no end before the huge patch , we had specs doing way too much dmg for the sustain they had.

>

> If Anet would stop with their mantra : "instant gratification builds"

>

>

>

> Maybe we would get somewhere.......

 

Funny that you bring up fighting games. [You want to see a good break down on what a good competitive fight should look like? ](

)

 

And this video also showcases the kinds of mind games and combat flow that GW2's pre-megabalance patch was significantly closer to. Of course you'd probably scream "OMG that one attack did 25% health that's OP!" and "OMG The OTHER player did 33% of the other player's health in ONE SECOND?! NERF!"

 

This breakdown of a few ways a fight can play out explains a lot of what makes competitive games fun and why GW2's PvP was significantly more fun before the megabalance patch. Attacks mean something. Any attack landing has immediate ramifications on the rest of the fight. Any attack missing can have immediate ramifications on the flow of combat, especially if you whiff and you get punished. And regardless of who landed their attack the fight is progressing towards an actual victor.

 

Here's the thing. GW2's actual mechanics are pretty simple. Every weapon kit has an autoattack of varying damage and utility based on a variety of factors such as range and the mechanical purpose of the kit. The rest of their kit tend to have a 1-2 very serious damage dealing skills, and then a mix of defensive, mobility, ranged and crowd control skills. Everything typically does a bit of damage but it's your main damage skills that are, well, your main source of damage. And all of them are just one keybind away. GW2 doesn't make you do Forward Quarter Circle, or Forward, Down, Down-Forward, or Quarter Circle Half Circle Back to use skills, let alone perform One Frame Links.

 

Sure, you could Arcing Slice someone for 6k-10k damage. But it was never as simple just "oh I press button and haha big damage go brrrrrr." It was a dance between "Okay I can Arcing Slice this guardian but they have Shield of Wrath up which will negate my attack and if I'm close to him and don't manage to break his shield I'll suffer huge damage, so I'm going to stay out of his range until it explodes and then try and bait their last dodge with a Blade Trail into Whirlwind Blade, I do need to be careful though because if they use Zealot's Blade while I try to Blade Trail it'll just destroy my attack, and if I can get him to spend his last dodge I can land Arcing Slice."

 

GW2's combat more closely resembled the way fights played out in a fighting game. High stakes, fast paced, and a mind game of positioning and working to land your high value skills while trying to use positioning, your dodges, and your defensive cooldowns to avoid their high damage skills because if it lands it will end the fight while they do the same. It was about knowing your enemy's potential and knowing what is punishable, knowing when they whiff a skill or poorly waste a defensive skill you've seriously shifted the outcome of the fight.

 

GW2's combat now is like if they tried to import the worst aspects of competitive RTS games into GW2; Fights can take half an hour before they can end. There isn't any real decisive blow or impressive kill shot, but about performing thousands of low value actions over those 30 minutes. Skills are no longer akin to actually attacking someone, but more akin to making a worker at your base and carry the same level of excitement. Even MOBAs have significantly faster and more exciting combat than the current state of GW2's combat. Sure a MOBA match can last for a half hour but there's tons of individual fights and fights between champions can end in under five seconds.

 

Even if the next balance patch perfectly balanced the game where every class and spec can perform equally well competitively, the environment post megabalance will never be good. It will never be anything more than a boring, slushy, slow, slog of a game.

> @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > @"Jables.4659" said:

> > I miss the old meta so much. Partially because I'm an 8 year/13k hour Mesmer main, but also because hitting like a wet noodle isn't fun. The sense of urgency and danger is gone.

>

> exactly, now side noders are holding hands and dancing in tournament on stream. too forgiving, low tier player might find this fun, but as you progress you will find out how completely anti-fun this is, as more and more player become way worse then you yet they will still hold the point incredible long from you, as skill is incredibly irrelevant now.

 

That face when in your epic player run community tournament two high tier players just /dance because actually trying to fight and kill each other isn't possible and a waste of time.

 


 

An over 3 month wait is pretty wild I must say. I get Covid19 caused some delays. But I figured even with the delays it's been more than enough time for the team to publish a balance patch preview, subject to feedback and change indicating we might see a patch next month.

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Warrior has to work for it's damage and is incredibly satisfying to combo and kill people with.

>

> Warhorn tempest has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.

>

> Meditrapper guardian has to work for it's damage and is fun to get kills on.

>

> The issue is they forgot that ranger and holosmith have 40604707004047047074070470470 free HPS and ranger/thief/holo have 460470 blocks/evades/invuls/dodges that have no limit.

>

> They need to put a limit on the amount of attacks a dodge/block/invul can negate.

 

Your desire to have GW2 be a game of "If you chain attacks 1a, 2a, 7h, 12c, 92q, 5u in this exact order in under 3.5 seconds you might get a lucky crit and do 15% of your opponent's health and if any part of that hoes wrong they'll remain at 100% health for 20 seconds until your cooldowns are up and you can try again" the way you want it is terrible design. This is not what a good competitive game looks like.

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> > I can't stand this kind of balance strategy that reduces the skill floor to flatters bad players. This kind of bad design has been used in wow. Now they admit that this kind of idea fails and makes improvement. The game is still making the same mistake

>

> But that isn't the design philosophy at all. You're supposed to have to work for damage now, instead of mash any button and it does 1/3 of someones HP.

>

> The issue is the blatantly easy classes(hi every bunker/necro) that require absolutely no thought and just pianoing your keyboard outlasting your opponent.

 

"Work for damage" is code for "no one ever dies."

 

This philosophy is nonsense, and terrible design. In better designed games and better metas in this game's history there's no such thing as "work for damage". Damage happens. Regardless of the skill of the players the fight always progresses towards a victor and the better player **wins**. Two skillless noobs who have never played before pitted against each other, one of them will win. Two absolute masters of the craft pitted against each other, one of them will win.

 

This idea that "Oh you haven't met the 34.67185% outskill requirement and therefore _the fight must never end._" is a fucking stupid design philosophy and I resent people pushing this idea as "the way GW2 was always meant to be played" when in actuality the flaws of the game's design especially with giving every profession healing allowing for fights to stall out is in many ways Guild Wars 2 Original Sin.

I love the 2v2 and 3v3 formats and I want them to be a very frequent presence but I think these modes being inbetween main seasons helps keep the small population from fracturing too hard and also makes the game feel a lot more special when they're around.

Anet doesn't care.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > > > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" man, you may be low gold in game, but you sure is legendary rating in the forum, what's your main? forum warrior? where you find the confidence to call other bias, when you are most bias person in this forum, you can't read irony or something?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > also look at your posts post feb 25th, why don't you start arguing with yourself in your own thread

> > > > >

> > > > > Honestly speaking....you complained about damage and sustain on other professions even before Feb25th....yet you call other biased...maybe it's time for you to learn something more than bull's rush/Rampage spellbreaker

> > > >

> > > > you still havent explain why you prefer a less skilled meta

> > >

> > > So huge damage is skilled meta...the lockdown builds were skilled...

> >

> > wait so landing huge damage is less skilled then no damage passive faceroll tanks? isnt there more lockdown builds now then before feb 25th

> > you are not making sense and contradict yourself so much

> >

>

> If landing huge damage is always skilled...I don't know why people were complaining about specs like Fresh air and Lightning rod, the same people who claim there is not enough dmg...are the same who asked for LR nerfs not long ago....that is a contradiction but it's easy to see the reason : it wasn't their class doing the dmg.

>

> In the end landing huge dmg is skilled...as long as it's your class doing it..otherwise nerf it . Now stop going in circles with your charade, unless you can explain why you were asking for nerfs on LR while here you ask for dmg to be reverted

 

I don't think many people complained about fresh air ele/weaver at all. I recall myself and most other people thinking the Plasma Beam nerf came out of left field when it happened and felt unnecessary because while the build could take you to top 25 it was still pretty rare and wasn't running over the meta at large.

> @"Koen.1327" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Koen.1327" said:

> > > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > > > @"Koen.1327" said:

> > > > > cmirage wins hard vs condi thief, probably easiest out of all meta specs and definitely one you can kill in 10 secs

> > > > > it has lots of losing matchups, but pretty much all barely but has good roaming capabilities and good dmg

> > > > >

> > > > > in ranked mirage or core mes is just fine, and nerfs to other strong specs are expected so it will be even stronger

> > > > > every class had to adapt to the new meta i guess just mirages are struggling leaving their brainless ih builds behind

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yeah sure, that's why misha is leaving mesmer in mota playing class he didn't master.

> > > > Your sarcasm is at very high level.

> > >

> > > why would u even bring up mota when im talking about ranked, relevant for 100% of the people on this forum

> > > guess ranger is also trash cuz boyce played nec, or [insert any] who swapped to rev

> > > pretty sure herald would replace many other specs in mota if class stacking was allowed so mes wouldn't be lonely

> >

> > the point is that mesmer is so far down the list that even without class stacking, mes is not a viable choice at all.

> > and I dont mean specs, I mean entire CLASS.

> > war and mes are in the kitten.

>

> viable enough to win monthly (before some classes even got nerfed), or to beat 3 renegade team that won the next monthly

> sure, mes was dropped from the best team but this is not my interpretation of "so far" down the list and certainly not for ranked

>

>

>

 

That monthly was very shortly after the megabalance and people didn't have a grip on the meta at large yet. It hasn't come close to winning since then and the mesmer main who won that monthly has completely abandoned mesmer in favor of other classes.

No one in the community wants to see mesmer buffed.

Staff is generally excellent when between shatters and the autoattack it has the DPS to grind down a target. It was a perfectly good weapon before the megabalance patch hit mesmer damage output by 80% compared to the normal 30-50%. The problem is between the removal of the expertise amulets and the Ambush nerf also hitting the mesmer itself, and the gutting of Sharper Images it's gutted an 1800 damage per second weapon in realistic PvP stats down to 360 damage per second weapon. There are builds with so much HPS they completely negate everything the staff can do DPS wise making them literally mathematically ukillable.

 

The Phantasm is limp and takes too long to become a clone and doesn't even fit the theme of below average damage reinforced by both debilitating debuts towards the target and potent buffs for the mesmer and their allies. The Auto attack needs it's damage returned primarily on the mesmer itself as no one likes the clones as turrets gameplay, including the ambush. That's really about it.

 

Even in PvE thanks to being unnerfed it has a niche as it's the best thing for soloing champion and legendary bosses.

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > @"Lighter.5631" said:

> > > @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> > > This poll isn't accurate because anyone who disliked the old meta quit the game long ago and the majority of people around were already having fun in the old meta, so they're the ones voting.

> > >

> > > The only reason I'm back is because of the revamp. The game is a lot better now, but holo, ranger, and rev all have too much sustain and go against the entire design philosophy of the patch. Zero investment for tons of sustain = bad, and all 3 of those classes have far, far too much free sustain.

> >

> > untrue, most people who prefer pre-patch are mostly active players i saw on the forum even before feb 25, and actually most people who like meta now, are people who i have not see any at all pre-patch in forum or in game pre-patch and even now.

> > this is not about holo/ranger/rev being too much sustain(in fact these builds die super fast if you pick the counter build). it's about not having any skill involvement in the game. see if they nerf sustain again, you people will again complain about too much damage. so these are really pointless, what's important is that if this meta is fun/skillful to play or fight in. which currently, condition rev is definitely the degenerate of power rev, and daredevil is degenerate of core thief, so is defense warrior, it's passive, it's boring and it lives too long and still does good damage, what's the different? skill/fun.

> >

> > in fact ,i would like to think anyone who enjoys the current meta compared to feb 25th meta might be low tier players, since the only difference is basically now requires less skill to play and die slower.

> > also it is almost the same boring meta that killed pvp scene HoT, but you wouldn't know, while most people who dislike the current meta know because they played.

> You guys compare PoF with HoT balance-wise and think everything is dandy, which in reality you should compare HoT and PoF with Core, since it's the starting point for every class and e-speces should be made around them as another way to play, not a straight-up upgrade to carry them.

> Welcome in reality I guess.

 

We should compare it to core, where literally every build was doing 2x the damage on equivalent amulets and builds as they are now.

Removing spec stacking wouldn't fix builds being overpowered enough to be mandatory. If Anything it highlights which builds need fast immediate adjustments. Removing class stacking is a bandaid and doesn't actually address the real problem at all; that certain builds are incredibly over powered.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > The current Condi/CC AoE spam meta we are in is objectively unskillful gameplay.

>

> ....Like every other time before ..somehow the "current meta" is always the worst and one before was way better but in truth the only good meta for each individual is where they win everytime with their class of choice...I rest my case

>

 

You're literally talking to a revenant main which power or condi is one of the strongest builds in the game right now, meta class and easily top 3 strongest builds for ranked play.

The game is a hideous, slushy, unimpactful mess with more builds than ever that simply can't kill each other and stall out indefinitely, with power decay that's put damage, active defenses, mobility below what it was in even core-gw2. It hasn't fixed Path of Fire power creep, it's gone too far in the other direction to the point where every build is weaker than it's ever been. Full on Power Decay. GW2 Grey Addition. I've stepped away from the game entirely at this point.

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > > @"Supreme.3164" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > 

> > > >

> > > > lol

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > "rev is picked by the best players and best players tend to win monthly"...I just can't wrap my head around that comment, makes no sense whatsoever.....I am speechless

> > >

> >

> > The way I would interpret it is that players who do well on Rev do well on whatever other classes they play. I'd say it's not surprising that Rev players will be on average both more experienced with the game in general and more inclined to multi-classing since it is an expansion class meaning that pretty much everyone who plays it has played other classes before it which gives a large advantage against the multitude of people who have no clue about classes other than the ones they main. You can call it bologna but CMC has some form of data to base that comment off of while us players only have speculation.

>

> This is what happens when people apply their subjective views to what is, based on the data he has access to, a pretty objective statement. This happens pretty much every time they share any form of statistic with us.

 

"Objective statement"

 

Lol.

 

Rev was considered dead when Path of Fire launched. It was considered worse than Water weaver, which was the best Elementalist spec at that time and considered extremely sub optimal. No one was playing Revenant at the highest level of play. And then the Sword Offhand rework happened that super charged sword offhand and Glint+Shiro's damage potential. Also this coincided with PoF power creep and meta being brought down to a level that left the HoT meta level Glint+Shiro with super charged Sword offhand _extremely_ attractive.

 

Rev was seeing massive use not because high level players largely really like Revenant and were really really loyal to revenant. Revenant was almost completely abandoned for high level play throughout the first year and a half of PoF. Rev usage exploded because of a one two punch of revenant being buffed and the meta around Glint+Shiro Herald were nerfed enough to leave Glint+Shiro as by any objective analysis one of the best builds in the game for the rest of Path of Fire. When the monthly happened we were seeing Double Firebrand+Double Glint+Shiro for both finals. That was his response.

 

"Good players are attracted to rev because rev is attractive to the best players and that's why it sees a lot of usage" was and still is nonsense because the most competitive players have been shown to multiclass and roll whatever is most effective. Misha mains mesmer but he'll play revenant when revenant is meta. Sindriner mains thief but will play revenant when revenant is meta. Naru mains necromancer but he'll play guardian/firebrand when that is prefered. Helio likes Spellbreaker and Revenant but he swapped to Boonbeast when Boonbeast was too strong to ignore.

Mesmer is not getting buffed in PvP. Cmc and Ben have _literally explicitly_ said this. More nerfs are in the pipeline. Cmc has also _explicitly_ said this. If you poll the SPvP forum if they're happier now with Mesmers being, almost inarguably the weakest PvP class and representation plummetting the poll would have almost 90% "Yes".

 

The developers are happy. The player base is happy with balance. It's over for mesmer. It's time to move on.

 

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > Nah. Considering a block feature exists, you should be allowed to say whatever you want to other players without reprise.

>

> So, they might as well remove the option to even report verbal abuse according to your statement.

 

Yes, actually.

Nah. Considering a block feature exists, you should be allowed to say whatever you want to other players without reprise.