CutesySylveon.8290

> @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong. > > > > > > > > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it. > > > > > > Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential > > > > Choked out of relevance? What does that even mean, like people aren't taking much cleanse because they don't often expect to face condi builds? If that's the case, then tough. Bring cleanse and be smart with it. If you've got other classes applying cover condi then that's called synergy, and it's a synergy that Shoutbreaker and resistance both hard counter. > > no what it means is in the current balance burn damage is all you need to out dps other condi specs in almost every scenario > Take condi scourge for example- it can put bleed, torment and burn in bulk, this is harder to cleanse yes but in it’s nerfed state if you actually land a good bit it’s gonna push maybe 1 of those stacks to tick for 1-2k per meanwhile a burn guard didn’t even have to hit a full soj to do that and if they do it’ll be actually relevant damage. > In this case a condi scourge is much harder to cleanse and ill even corrupt boons but it’s not gonna out dps burn damage unless you tank it but then if they are tanking it burn burst will get the kill faster so win win. You're comparing the damage of a build with a ton more bulk and cover to keep damage ticking to one with almost no sustain that can lose every bit of damage output from a single cleanse. Of course it's going to out dps non burn builds, that's all you apply. If you stand still and never cleanse then burn guard will kill you much faster, but if you DO cleanse then it's the opposite. If burn guard did little damage then it would quite literally be the most useless condi build to ever exist, ever. That's the tradeoff of having a single condi that does any damage, it HAS to have it front loaded more than other condi builds because its damage is stopped by even minimal cleanse. If you bring low cleanse against a scourge then you're in for a lot of frustration that you're always taking damage after you expend all your resources. You can bring low cleanse against a burn guard and still survive because of how low the condi output is overall. No need to worry about cover condi or what condi to prioritize cleansing, just cleanse the burns before the stacks get high and after key skills, and don't stand in SoJ; someone pointed out that it's a PvE skill designed to use against stationary targets and now people in PvP are complaining about it. Says a lot about the status of the PvP community.

> @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > > > > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > > > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > > > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > > > > > > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. > > > > > > Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! > > > > > > Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. > > > > Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all. > > Oh, I agree, if a there is counterplay to something people should absolutely just adjust and stop whinging. Because clearly thats how this works. > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1374581#Comment_1374581 > This you? > > In the meantime I'll continue to adovcate for classes to have strenghts and weaknesses, and to limit their toolkits to give them an actual identity. Even if devs do not have the time/resources to rework and rebalance things right now, deleting it will be a net positive. So just remove it from PvP. At no point did I advocate for removing rangers immobilize in any way, I pointed out that a buggy mechanic needs changing. Roots don't take condi and will straight up appear 300+ units away from you, they're inconsistent and need changing while keeping rangers lock down potential. Trapper Runes are working as intended, they're just really strong as is rangers immobilize capabilities. If you know nothing will be given in compensation for the builds nerfing knowing it will be dead afterwards, then you're advocating for its removal. I also said, either in that forum or another, that immobilize isn't an identity of ranger, pet mechanics are. Good try, but no dice.

> @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"memausz.7264" said: > > > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong. > > > > Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it. > > Yeah but condi classes in general have been choaked out of relevance and if you take one with plenty of cover condis you actually won’t do much damage. Ppl have tried stuff like scourge condi and condi rev and while they are decent as well as being a dh counter often times- they just don’t bring enough dps to have a place in the spot light anymore and are just a tanky dh with ultra low kill potential Choked out of relevance? What does that even mean, like people aren't taking much cleanse because they don't often expect to face condi builds? If that's the case, then tough. Bring cleanse and be smart with it. If you've got other classes applying cover condi then that's called synergy, and it's a synergy that Shoutbreaker and resistance both hard counter.

> @"memausz.7264" said: > Ask yourselves this question - why is it that no other condis in the game and no other direct damage attacks in the game, even combined, match burn dmg? That's how I know all of you are wrong. Yikes, bad take. Burns are generally much lower duration and have limited access. Guardian compensate for having no cover condi by having the strongest damaging one. Bring cleanse and stop wasting it.

> @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > > > > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > > > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > > > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. > > > > Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything. > > Oh shoot, there you go looking under my skirt again... ofc if trapper builds cannot function without the rune, buffing them in any way to compensate is tOtAllY oUt oF tHE QueStiON. kitten I'm exposed again! > > Expect google doc drop within the next days, also to all my twitter followers, whatever you do please do not harass this person, that would be terrible. Do not do that. pLeASe. Yes, compensation is out of the question, this is Anet we're dealing with. They nerf things primarily based on what's whined about the most and call it a day with zero regard to anything else. Traps have long been forgotten by Anet and the rune is all that's keeping them viable, so removing the rune is removing trapper builds. People need to stop whining for a change and try figuring out how to deal with builds that have clear counterplay instead of just nerfing them because they can‘t be bothered to adjust their builds at all.

> @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > @"Bazsi.2734" said: > > > > @"Brokensunday.4098" said: > > > > > > > > Edit also traps need to desapwn asoon as you place another. > > > > > > They do... what do you mean? > > > > > > Also remove trapper runes! > > > > If i remember correctly you can place same traps twice if you place them then wait the cd and when some one triggers place another. Traps should despawn when the cd reset. > > The moment you trigger the trap, the trap itself disappears, and a trap effect is playing out in the place for the trap in a few seconds. The trap despawns upon placing a new one, the spell that plays out after doesn't, as it's technically not a trap. > And I don't get why it should despawn either, I always looked at it like the tradeoff for limiting yourself to traps. Because if trapper runes do not exist, you can see where the enemy places them, you can also expect them on specific locations, you can send in pets, clones, dodge through them etc... so the players can make up for the fact that they can be "chained" twice with their own skill. Having the effects despawn would just make blindly charging into traps a much more forgiveable mistake. > You see most of us do not want to kill trapper builds, we just don't want guardians running around with stealth and superspeed. Removing trapper runes will kill trapper builds, so you're not hiding anything.

> @"memausz.7264" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > > But think about it this way- engis have to waste a dodge to proc this and this is in combat so they need to force defensive resources for the bonus offensive pressure. > > > > Totally wrong way to look at it. > > > > They aren't "wasting a dodge" for offensive gain like Mirages do with IH. > > They are gaining an offensive bonus for using a dodge. > > > > Holo is being put in the spotlight here because they already have plenty of offensive capabilities without Explosives traitline, as shown with already existing builds like Prot Holo. > > > > Factoring in Explosives traitline, Explosive entrance gives them bonus damage, Barrier and blind, off just using a dodge. > > > > That's basically rewarding a dodge with a bonus attack, which ALSO gives bonus defensive aftereffects. > > > > If yu are spam dodging as Engi to use Explosive Entrance then I have nothing to say other than yu deserve to get killed. > > > > Prot holo doesn't exist anymore, dude... They were using that as an example, not saying it was a thing that still existed.

> @"memausz.7264" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Leafstorm.1349" said: > > > Why is this still a thing? Why do guardians just hit you once and you have 6+ burn stacks? Why is it that you can apply 21+ burn stacks on something instantly? This is literally the bane of this game and the rise for every single bad player ever. You have had time to adjust this and you didnt even touch it in the patch. What a joke. > > > > Burn guard isn't a problem. Stop panic cleansing when you have 3 burn stacks. > > You mean 3 stacks that can do 1200 dmg/tick for 4 seconds? Yeah, that's a death wish on its own. The game should not reward low skill players who can sit on a node and just lay traps. > > Oh, and btw, tether pulls and scepter 3 immobs prevent you from disengaging Would you rather be stuck with more stacks because you ran out of cleanses too early? Any DH that uses F1 to pull is gambling their damage on a pull into traps that can be negated in more ways to list than necessary. People really need to learn how to deal with condi, and this is one of the easier builds. Kite them off traps, pressure them from range, stop charging in headfirst onto the point knowing there are traps there.

> @"Psykewne.3025" said: > Needs a 10 second cooldown and stealth and super speed nerfed to 1 second in pvp only. If DH still has issues then you can balanced it from there. A rune set should not give better better stealth than many thief set ups. DH has had issues forever, we know good and well it won't receive any buffs if Trapper runes were nerfed. All it will do is make DH useless again unless some other gimmick build arises.

> @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > > @"Leafstorm.1349" said: > > > > > So for everyone who is dumb enough to defend this build by saying that it wont work against a real team, well, that is not the problem here. The problem doesnt exist in ATs or anything of the sort. The problem is that when I q into ranked and this build is farming pugs because its braindead and applies mega burning stacks, which are then covered because you know, its a team fight and thats what happens, my pugs are instantly dead. I'm not here for tips. I've multiple top 100 titles and even for ATs, my account is in top 40 for the most emblems held. No, this thread is about literal braindead players being carried by a spec so simple that a rat could play it and climb much higher than what their skill level should ever allow. The build is unhealthy for the game. Actually, one could say that its more unhealthy than nade holo ever was as it takes that little skill. There have been builds that have been this unhealthy in the past such as condi thief being able to apply 20+ stacks of poison etc. and they have been reworked or nerfed. If you really want to see the impact that this spec is having on the game, go back to last season's top 250/100/25/etc. and look at the ratings, then go look right now. T250 is literally sitting at 1500 and T100 is far below P2 lol. Its a joke. People dont want to play this trash. So again, its unhealthy for the game. > > > > > > > > So you are saying that a build that requires team fights (for condi cover, since guard has only a small number of condis outside burn) and is incredibly squishy (~15k hp) is the problem? I don't get it. Condi thief was a problem because it had mobility and could provide its own cover. Core guard has one of the worst mobilities out of any class. Your rune almost always has to be 25% ms rune, which don't even function with condi. It also has one invun.. which it needs to channel for. If there ever was a class that could be easily bursted down, its core guard. > > > > > > > > The reason core guard is good now is the combination of overall nerfed damage and that ranger is in a bad place. Rangers used to be 90-10 vs guard 1v1. Holo also used to deal with guards easily, but that has also been nerfed. And i say 'good', but i rarely see burn guard above mid gold. > > > > > > > > I understand the forum needs something to complain about, but core guard really isn't the target you should be looking at. A few buffs to underperforming classes and burn guard is again at the wayside. > > > > > > U do realize ppl are mostly talking about burn dh which has 20k hp and is probably the best build in the meta rn. Also as someone around when condi thief was in its prime I can tell u it’s way better than condi thief ever was. Also ranger has never been a winning MU into guard that is pure delusion. Core guard would destroy both ranger and holo in 1v1 not too long ago, so what are u crying about guard is busted > > > > Best build in the meta? You can't be serious. It has almost no cleanse itself and can't touch builds that can cleanse. > > Well what can u bring that’ll actually counter that? The list is small with basically just a full bunker scourge on it to completely counter it yet 1 trap with a cc followed up by applying your burn will 1 shot the scourge... Even a small amount of consistent cleanse can hard counter this build, and of you have cleanse support then you've got a useless DH that can't do anything to anyone. It has no stun breaks, little cleanse, F2 is the only mobility it has, and if you can't get someone in Dragon's Maw or they use any number of ways to negate/escape it, then it's once again useless. Range pressure that forces them away from their traps or makes them F1 also hard counters them. If you try to face it head on then you're going to struggle.

> @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > @"Leafstorm.1349" said: > > > So for everyone who is dumb enough to defend this build by saying that it wont work against a real team, well, that is not the problem here. The problem doesnt exist in ATs or anything of the sort. The problem is that when I q into ranked and this build is farming pugs because its braindead and applies mega burning stacks, which are then covered because you know, its a team fight and thats what happens, my pugs are instantly dead. I'm not here for tips. I've multiple top 100 titles and even for ATs, my account is in top 40 for the most emblems held. No, this thread is about literal braindead players being carried by a spec so simple that a rat could play it and climb much higher than what their skill level should ever allow. The build is unhealthy for the game. Actually, one could say that its more unhealthy than nade holo ever was as it takes that little skill. There have been builds that have been this unhealthy in the past such as condi thief being able to apply 20+ stacks of poison etc. and they have been reworked or nerfed. If you really want to see the impact that this spec is having on the game, go back to last season's top 250/100/25/etc. and look at the ratings, then go look right now. T250 is literally sitting at 1500 and T100 is far below P2 lol. Its a joke. People dont want to play this trash. So again, its unhealthy for the game. > > > > So you are saying that a build that requires team fights (for condi cover, since guard has only a small number of condis outside burn) and is incredibly squishy (~15k hp) is the problem? I don't get it. Condi thief was a problem because it had mobility and could provide its own cover. Core guard has one of the worst mobilities out of any class. Your rune almost always has to be 25% ms rune, which don't even function with condi. It also has one invun.. which it needs to channel for. If there ever was a class that could be easily bursted down, its core guard. > > > > The reason core guard is good now is the combination of overall nerfed damage and that ranger is in a bad place. Rangers used to be 90-10 vs guard 1v1. Holo also used to deal with guards easily, but that has also been nerfed. And i say 'good', but i rarely see burn guard above mid gold. > > > > I understand the forum needs something to complain about, but core guard really isn't the target you should be looking at. A few buffs to underperforming classes and burn guard is again at the wayside. > > U do realize ppl are mostly talking about burn dh which has 20k hp and is probably the best build in the meta rn. Also as someone around when condi thief was in its prime I can tell u it’s way better than condi thief ever was. Also ranger has never been a winning MU into guard that is pure delusion. Core guard would destroy both ranger and holo in 1v1 not too long ago, so what are u crying about guard is busted Best build in the meta? You can't be serious. It has almost no cleanse itself and can't touch builds that can cleanse.

> @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > > > @"snoow.1694" said: > > > > Literally one of the most dodged Guardian skills ever with a long animation before it even starts > > > > > > By that logic Death's Judgement used to be totally balanced as well. > > > > If you look at only that aspect, but even then you're still wrong. DJ has never had a CD and could be done as many times as you want if you had the initiative, and now every time you stealth. 4 second reveal? Just remove it. When Guardian missed focus 4, it's on full CD. > > So having no CD automatically means "could be spamed" regardless of any other resources that have to be spent - got it. > Initiative is also just a very minor factor indeed, it's like thieves have an infinite amount that recharges instantly. In comparison to Focus 4, absolutely. You miss it and it's full CD, DJ could be used as many times as you had resources for.

> @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > @"snoow.1694" said: > > Literally one of the most dodged Guardian skills ever with a long animation before it even starts > > By that logic Death's Judgement used to be totally balanced as well. If you look at only that aspect, but even then you're still wrong. DJ has never had a CD and could be done as many times as you want if you had the initiative, and now every time you stealth. 4 second reveal? Just remove it. When Guardian missed focus 4, it's on full CD.

There's already a giant glowy effect when it's cast that gives ot away. What more do you need?

> @"snoow.1694" said: > We already have enough grudges and toxic players as it is - it would result in bullying and ganking of people by salty players after matches. The arena in the lobby is probably the most hate filled place in all of Tyria, no need to expand it There are a few people in particular that spew enough toxicity to make even the worst smack talker blush.

> @"KrHome.1920" said: > Thieves have 100% evasion uptime underwater while doing damage at the same time. Basically a broken version of unrelenting assault. > > So unless you are a teef: Be careful what you ask for. The damage on spear 2 is pretty busted too lol go to WvW and spam that for days while doing nearly half of people's health bars. Bring it!

> @"Grand Marshal.4098" said: > our keep on Eb was tagged all the time and ofc no one even questioned why (evryone typing 'wHatS Up WiTH Our KeeP GuyZ) so I investigated. A condi druid with this rune ofc stayed hidden there and didnt allow for the waypoint to be used. I died initially when i faced them, but you understand a pattern after a fight. You can always listen when they are placing down traps. You must have to bait them the opposite way. Just because they have stealth it doesnt have to be an issue, but I was surprised by how easily they abused this by spamming 3 traps and trying to knock me from behind into them. Creative gameplay, but it can ultimately be countered. I was a spellbreaker on roaming build btw. > > But next Thief espec getting traps??? lmaoooo Thief had traps before Preparations and they got nerfed when they had a hilarious but infuriating build called Ghost Trapper, and that build used trapper runes.

> @"WolfHeart.1256" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > Last I checked, the class defining thing for Ranger is the pet mechanics, not immobilize. > > That's like saying a Guardian's mechanic is to guard not to deal damage or burn. > What in the world are you talking about? Guardians class defining things are virtues, and for Ranger it's pet mechanics. Immobilize isn't Ranger exclusive or class defining.

> @"Super Hayes.6890" said: > Yet when it was stationary before it was popular and widely used... It was also new, and ripped 4x as many boons.

> @"Garret.1965" said: > I think they should change the 6th effect on trapper runes from stealth & super-speed to binding-roots instead. :) Go home, Satan!

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > I don't personally agree with the 1 Stability second pulse as the game is full on clunk with 1 second intervals, but I would agree with it being 2 seconds like before. People can always remove stab on CC to effectively nullify the skill so I don't see why it's a good thing to encourage players to CC someone in the middle of the road because you can't have 2 stacks for defending your area of the skill that's being pushed now. > > > > Honestly the best change would just be reverting the skill to October 01, 2019: > > Initial stab: 2 > Pulse: 1.5 stab > Range: 600 > CD: 10s > > The buff they gave it that made it 3s was IMO an actual overbuff, this coming from someone who used Jalis a lot. The nerf they gave it was over the top, and may actually be bugged because I am noticing you don't get initial stab at all anymore sometimes. > > If you want a range nerf, keep it to sPvP and out of WvW and PvE.

Revert the clunky changes from February.

Guys, I think the thief discussion should move to the thief section.

> @"snoow.1694" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > I can't see how those complains make much sense. Even Trapper Runes deserve to stay and have an ICD instead because the ease of access is the broken aspect, not the effect. > > > > > > Well I would even agree with that. I just think high damage should also be met with small sustain and I say that as a Guardian main. If someone can drop 10 stacks burn on you they should also drop faster and the other way around. ICD sounds great to me Trapper DH already does drop fast, just not to melee. Pressure them from range after F3 is gone and avoid F1 pull and they're quite literally helpless.

> @"Avatar.3568" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Avatar.3568" said: > > > I am not a big fan of removing amulets but Cele did multiple time rise the most broken builds (Cele ele) > > > It was time to say goodbye again > > > > What build besides Renegade used it? > > Every bunker can run Celestial or meder, but since they nerfed decap scrapper only Rene and I think decap warrior > Decap druid can use it too. > It's not that there where that many builds out but everytime a build was busted it was because it could abuse all stats in once, renegade hits like a truck with Cele and is incredibly tanky, same was Cele ele > Okay, if we take the assumption that Renegade was busted, that's the only even viable build that ran it. Decap warrior? If it's the build I'm thinking of, they run Sage, not Cele. Holo never used cele at its strongest, nor did any version of power revenant or really any other build that was broken in recent memory. How is it abuse to use all stats but with significantly lowered values? It's compromising on the ability to do anything at its peak performance, Renegade just got by because the power scaling on Shortbow was buffed to the heavens over the years of it being terrible. There was no reason to remove cele at all, it's a red herring.