CutesySylveon.8290

> @"Avatar.3568" said: > I am not a big fan of removing amulets but Cele did multiple time rise the most broken builds (Cele ele) > It was time to say goodbye again What build besides Renegade used it?

> @"Vancho.8750" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > i really wanna see anet stats on winrate and play frequency rn, specifically in regards to blueclass > I think it is pretty popular, it is not the greatest kitten ever but generally can get effortless kills and compared to other entry level builds it is god mode. It is gimmicky but it is constant gimmick like spamming the same OP attack on Fighting games and it is not actually that bad as all rounder Queue build, the gimmick is just really viable. Stack 2 of them in the chaos of Queue and roll with it someone will die from burns at some point. I think the Yellow Class healer build became popular only because it can kinda reduces the burden of constant burning. > All in all there is nothing really contesting it on the entry level PVP and there will be 4 guards on each team. > People tend to forget that the game has tiers of skill and there are different Meta on every tier, it is just that there aren't many options for some tiers. > Also Burn DH being in the AT meta is making me question that if it is gimmick or really good build. Lol Yellow Class healer. The warrior shade thrown was real

> @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > > > You can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games. > > > > > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > *snip* > > > > > > > > > > I have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but... > > > > > > > > > > ... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode. > > > > > > > > > > Around 1550 with only playing memes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're ***viable***. > > > > > > > > Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. > > > > > > > > The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. > > > > > > It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build. > > > > > > I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly. > > > > > > €: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up. > > > > > > > If you can destroy DH with power mesmer, how can you reasonably say it's way too effective for how easy it is to play? How hard a build is doesn't mean it should have any standard of viability attached to it, even if you literally just auto attack. This build is make or break by trapper runes and Dragon's Maw, remove either of those things or just dodge Dragon's Maw and you've got a build that can't hope to do anything but F1 and that's also severely jeopardizing their effectiveness even if it lands. Once it's gone, guardian is without any viable builds left baring some new discovery or such a serious shakeup in the meta that an old build comes back. > > > > I seriously doubt much will change. If power thief were to be out then power Shiro will likely fill in its place again, even if it is a compromise on mobility in exchange for better team-fighting capabilities. This could let condi mirage come back and keep it in check but I doubt it. I agree the meta could be shaken up a bit, but I don't see it being so much so that Berserker, non holo engis, non tempest ele's, etc etc will be able to come back. One or two things might shift, but we'll still be in a stagnant state of little build variety. > > 40+ notifications, what the kitten. Stop quoting! > > I don't understand your reasoning. It can be not OP and still be incredibly easy to play. I can jump on burn guard myself and without any knowledge or combos do well in P1 (well, who can't?). No learning curve, no improvement necessary, no positioning, kiting, no anything. I don#t think it is fun to play or play against, but that's subjective as usual. It won't carry people to actually high ranks, but it will carry bad players and I don't like that. > > I don't think berserkers will pop up. That one was acutally quite bad and didn't do much indeed. But seeing some more mesmers without having had to buff them? More supports than warrior? Non-support warriors? Any change is a good change, so I take this as a step in the right direction. Not perfect, not a big step, but it's something. I don't agree it's overperforming though, even if it's pretty braindead. I use a non trapper version in WvW with Spirit Sword and Purging Flames as a defense build in structures vs attackers. It's literally just drop AoE on siege and watch 5-10k burn ticks happen, this is WvW so stats and yadayadayada but you get my point. It's easy, but it's also a gimmick that's easily shut down by anything with defensive aspects to their build. Resistance, teleports, blocks on everything besides Maw and F1, and any invuln for a few seconds effectively render it useless. Build carrying bad players isn't going to change, and certainly not when the surrounding playerbase refuse to adapt to it and just start asking for it to be nerfed and made irrelevant, I believe this is a much bigger indicator of a bad player: people who refuses to adapt their build or playstyle for the predicted environment. If you know Trapper DH is likely to be in your match, then you bring tools to deal with it, but this might make you weaker to other builds; this is what we should want even if it means we can't just rely on a single template for every scenario. Zerk is probably gone until they get another massive damage buff that will be nerfed again. Like I said, Tempest coming back as shoutbreaker leaves didn't change much, you aren't ever going to see support scrapper, druid, or Ventari. It's not really a step anywhere except back to what we had before the most recent build was nerfed. And yes the ping overflow lol

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > > > > @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > > > > > > > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > > > > > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > > > > > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > > > > > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > > > > > > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even builds that are currently bad are still way stronger than meta builds before pre-HoT trait rework. The powercreep in this game has been insane and it didn't do any good. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not even *close*. The best builds right now are actually weaker than the worst builds back then. Like, thief from back then would actually destroy everyone in a 1v1 right now, and it had losing matchups back then. > > > > > > > > > > No. You basically only had access to 2 (+ 1 adept trait) instead of 3 full traitlines and the vast majority of traits were much weaker. You also had lower base stats as well as less stats from gear. There is no way a few stronger skills can make up for this. > > > > > > > > And you could mix and match the traits more easily. A lot of traits were actually *stronger* too. Oh and while stats were lower, they were lower *across the board*. Offensive *and* defensive. We'd compare them with the same gear. And no, the stronger skills more than make up for it. Just take a look at [this]( ). Notice how, even though all stats were lower (including health), the Theif hits a lot *harder* than right now? And that wasnt even an optimal build (Sadly I had to work with what Ive got since there are barely any videos from around that time that arent WvW). An optimal build would run circles around that. And that is already just current thief, but *way* stronger. > > > > > > Lol no, the thief shown in the vid hits about as hard as thieves do right now, but has way way less survivability. > > > > You're impressively wrong in every single point you just made. Lets start. [This]( ) is the damage his backstab does against a squishy. Keep in mind, even the raw number of 6315 is a lot higher than thief can currently hit (thief currently maxes out at 5k, usually 4.5k). But remember how you said "stats were lower"? That *includes* HP. That 6315 did a lot more damage relative to the targets HP than 6315 would do right now. So no, he hits *way* harder. As for survivability, well, lets start with his HP. This build is suboptimal, so it has a lot more HP than normal. Currently the standard thief has 15417 hp. But again, remember, *stats were lower*. That 14k hp is actually a lot more effective hp than the current 15417. Well what about his defenses? Withdraw has a *15* second cooldown. 10 seconds lower. He has a passive 320 healing in stealth (back then people hadnt yet figured out stealth wasnt so good in-combat), but also immunity to crits and 25% damage reduction. Cheaper, more accessible blinds. Better mug. And just better defensive stats. He has *way* more survivability. This thief would completely wipe the floor with a current thief. > > Got hit with an 8k backstab just last night. Admittedly it doesn't usually hit that hard, but it is in no way "maxed out" at 5k. Was that me in the Arena? I can hit 10k but it's running core with every damage boost I could fit and it's trash in actual matches.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"RedShark.9548" said: > > > @"dani.5680" said: > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others! > > > so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS! > > > I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! > > > > Dude, you must be new to gw2. > > Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. > > No, what got us to where we are now is them constantly nerfing instead of buffing. We had slight power creep (though, fun fact: Not nearly as much as people would think. Hell, pre-HoT Cele Ele wouldve wiped the floor with a lot of builds last year). Now we have *severe* power dip. Its like powercreep, except the other way around, and *way* worse. Were already over 20% lower in damage than at any point in the game prior. And its hurting the game. Oh God don't bring back my nightmares about d/d cele ele pre HoT!

> @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > > What makes you think core engi is not good? Maybe it’s just by nature that elite specs are a huge upgrade considering the mechanics of the class, > > > > [unfolds list] > > > > * Worst weapons in the game. (Still no MH power weapon to pair with shield) > > * An entire trait line that does almost nothing for core, but is **phenominal** on Holo. > > * Turrets overnerfed since forever. They're barely useful outside of toolbelt skills and detonate fodder even if running inventions. > > * Kits constantly being nerfed to bring down Elites > > * Bugs that go unaddressed for years (Anet forgets gadgeteer exists when adjusting things every time) > > * It gets very little for free. Poor escape potentil without rocket boots, Poor damage output without Grenades (nerfed), Lacks defense/utility wthout Elixir Gun. No real boon uptime without Elixirs. Results in you struggling to fit in everything you need to make a functioning build. Meanwhile Holo gets Damage, sustain, boons, and mobility for free, which **significantly** frees up your build space. > > * When was the last time you saw someone playing core engi while actively trying to climb? > > > > > > Who cares if you don’t have something good enough with shield and calling your weapons the worst is also something ppl don’t care about cuz it’s 1.) not true 2.) backwards since some elite specs have weapons that are worse than all core engi ones. > Your second complaint- like I said your complaining that the elite spec is an upgrade which is a good thing? > Turrets bad? Who cares use something else- every profession has something bad rn... > Kits nerfed... maybe they were strong, you have actually zero real proof it’s for elite specs. > Bugs, we have lots of those on every class so... > Lacks mobility, damage or sustain compared to an elite spec- every profession can add sustain, mobility or damage... > Last complaint- I see core engi every now and then and I don’t complain seeing one in plat2ish rank. Ppl who try to climb can climb on anything and u see stuff that isn’t meta every now and then but then again meta is just what’s popular. > Conclusion: over reaction. Core engi is w.e. If you haven’t notice they nerf core stuff all the time to balance lots of stuff yet you don’t see me making a thread about my bad core X build > Conclusion of this post: Written by a 10 year old.

> @"Leafstorm.1349" said: > Why is this still a thing? Why do guardians just hit you once and you have 6+ burn stacks? Why is it that you can apply 21+ burn stacks on something instantly? This is literally the bane of this game and the rise for every single bad player ever. You have had time to adjust this and you didnt even touch it in the patch. What a joke. Burn guard isn't a problem. Stop panic cleansing when you have 3 burn stacks.

> @"dani.5680" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Anomaly.7612" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > *snip* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Around 1550 with only playing memes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're ***viable***. > > > > > > > > > > > > Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. > > > > > > > > > > It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build. > > > > > > > > > > I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly. > > > > > > > > > > €: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you can destroy DH with power mesmer, how can you reasonably say it's way too effective for how easy it is to play? How hard a build is doesn't mean it should have any standard of viability attached to it, even if you literally just auto attack. This build is make or break by trapper runes and Dragon's Maw, remove either of those things or just dodge Dragon's Maw and you've got a build that can't hope to do anything but F1 and that's also severely jeopardizing their effectiveness even if it lands. Once it's gone, guardian is without any viable builds left baring some new discovery or such a serious shakeup in the meta that an old build comes back. > > > > > > > > I seriously doubt much will change. If power thief were to be out then power Shiro will likely fill in its place again, even if it is a compromise on mobility in exchange for better team-fighting capabilities. This could let condi mirage come back and keep it in check but I doubt it. I agree the meta could be shaken up a bit, but I don't see it being so much so that Berserker, non holo engis, non tempest ele's, etc etc will be able to come back. One or two things might shift, but we'll still be in a stagnant state of little build variety. > > > > > > Oh how I remember the days when all the competitive thieves rerolled power Rev. People on the receiving end hated it even more and begged for thief to be good again. *rocks back and forth in old squeaky chair* Yeah.... Those were the days. > > > > Remember the days 20 energy Phase Traversal, F2 giving all of Glint's facet boons, staff 5 doing damage, shield being great, Equilibrium existed, Impossible Odds gave quickness and superspeed, Elder Force giving a damage buff for every boon on you, and Sword 2 tracked stealth? *Brings two hot drinks and sits in a second squeaky chair.* Those were quite the days. > > The question is: > Why the devs dont keep these kind of builds that are fun to play and have 1 more viable build on the table and buff other builds at the same level of fun? > Why we need to crash burn kill every possbile build out there. thats what i dont understand. > why cant we have 30 builds on point that you can have there and actual SKILL in pvp makes your mark, not some copy paste build from metabattle from those 3-4 5 rank( 3 OR 4 BUILDS THAT ARE 5 STARS). Its crazy! To be fair, revenant was pretty busted on release, but it was also being hard carried by numbers and shiro/glint. Revenant was a mess when it came out lol but you are right. We need more viable build options for each class, not 1 or 2 that are meta dependent. We've been on a rapid track of nerfimg into irrelevance rather than trying to bring new builds to the picture. For example, while I disagree minion-mancer is good, if I'm wrong and it works, then great! We should be glad options to play exist, but people get upset that these builds counter the one they play and clamber for nerfs because they think their build should have nothing to struggle against. When was the last time minions were good? Most classes have a handful of skills that are viable in PvP and the rest are forgotten. Anyone remember turrets? Meditrapper? Ventari? Hammer guard? Fresh Air? D/D daredevil? And countless other builds that were not only fun but viable?

Only things I can remember Anet backsliding on was Scourges double shade nerf, Chronomancer's removal of Illusionary Persona, and reverting Shiro's Phase Traversal back to being usable outside of 1200 range when they lied and said it was a bug that it worked that way. This stuff isn't going to be reverted.

> @"Anomaly.7612" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > > > > > You can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games. > > > > > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > *snip* > > > > > > > > > > I have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but... > > > > > > > > > > ... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode. > > > > > > > > > > Around 1550 with only playing memes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're ***viable***. > > > > > > > > Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. > > > > > > > > The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. > > > > > > It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build. > > > > > > I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly. > > > > > > €: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up. > > > > > > > If you can destroy DH with power mesmer, how can you reasonably say it's way too effective for how easy it is to play? How hard a build is doesn't mean it should have any standard of viability attached to it, even if you literally just auto attack. This build is make or break by trapper runes and Dragon's Maw, remove either of those things or just dodge Dragon's Maw and you've got a build that can't hope to do anything but F1 and that's also severely jeopardizing their effectiveness even if it lands. Once it's gone, guardian is without any viable builds left baring some new discovery or such a serious shakeup in the meta that an old build comes back. > > > > I seriously doubt much will change. If power thief were to be out then power Shiro will likely fill in its place again, even if it is a compromise on mobility in exchange for better team-fighting capabilities. This could let condi mirage come back and keep it in check but I doubt it. I agree the meta could be shaken up a bit, but I don't see it being so much so that Berserker, non holo engis, non tempest ele's, etc etc will be able to come back. One or two things might shift, but we'll still be in a stagnant state of little build variety. > > Oh how I remember the days when all the competitive thieves rerolled power Rev. People on the receiving end hated it even more and begged for thief to be good again. *rocks back and forth in old squeaky chair* Yeah.... Those were the days. Remember the days 20 energy Phase Traversal, F2 giving all of Glint's facet boons, staff 5 doing damage, shield being great, Equilibrium existed, Impossible Odds gave quickness and superspeed, Elder Force giving a damage buff for every boon on you, and Sword 2 tracked stealth? *Brings two hot drinks and sits in a second squeaky chair.* Those were quite the days.

> @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > > > > > You can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games. > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > *snip* > > > > > > I have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but... > > > > > > ... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode. > > > > > > Around 1550 with only playing memes. > > > > > > > Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're ***viable***. > > > > Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. > > > > The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. > > It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build. > > I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly. > > €: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up. > If you can destroy DH with power mesmer, how can you reasonably say it's way too effective for how easy it is to play? How hard a build is doesn't mean it should have any standard of viability attached to it, even if you literally just auto attack. This build is make or break by trapper runes and Dragon's Maw, remove either of those things or just dodge Dragon's Maw and you've got a build that can't hope to do anything but F1 and that's also severely jeopardizing their effectiveness even if it lands. Once it's gone, guardian is without any viable builds left baring some new discovery or such a serious shakeup in the meta that an old build comes back. I seriously doubt much will change. If power thief were to be out then power Shiro will likely fill in its place again, even if it is a compromise on mobility in exchange for better team-fighting capabilities. This could let condi mirage come back and keep it in check but I doubt it. I agree the meta could be shaken up a bit, but I don't see it being so much so that Berserker, non holo engis, non tempest ele's, etc etc will be able to come back. One or two things might shift, but we'll still be in a stagnant state of little build variety.

> @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > @"Exile.8160" said: > > > @"Megametzler.5729" said: > > > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > > > > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > > > > > > > > > So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. > > > > So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs > > You can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games. > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > *snip* > > I have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but... > > ... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode. > > Around 1550 with only playing memes. > Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're ***viable***. Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity.

> @"Megametzler.5729" said: > In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant). > > Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. > > How is build diversity up when most classes only have 1 viable/meme build? You're lucky if you have 2. Warrior is locked to support shoutbreaker only. No dps builds, core or Berserker builds are viable. Guardian has trapper DH and people want to nerf it. Core is out and FB has been dead for a while. Revenant has Power Shiro, and I personally think Renegade might be viable still but idk yet. Ranger has...do they have anything besides annoying entangle shenanigans? Ranger mains can correct me and fill in the blanks here. Thief has d/p power and condi p/d, but again we'll see if the patch did anything to their viability. Engi has nade Holo. No core or scrapper builds. Necro has reaper, sort of, and core condi gets shut down by shoutbreaker. Scourge and minions are memes and I can't believe there are people calling for nerfs to minions. Ele has been jailed to support tempest for a while. No weaver or core. Mesmer can run mirage if they're really good. Chrono and core are out as far as I'm aware. If you main these classes and know things I'm missing then feel free to fill in, but...yeah our build diversity is pretty bad at the moment. Just because a new class with a single build pops up because a previous meta pick is out doesn't mean we aren't very starved for actual build diversity.

> @"Kachros.4751" said: > > @"lare.5129" said: > > > @"Kachros.4751" said: > > > This was... highly questionable to read, the nerf thief got was good but wasnt enough. If they left shortbow 5 as it is you can get 2.7k range from spamming it in 2 seconds which isnt remotely fine. > > this is concept question .. We talk not about value, we talk about mobility, stealth, and damage domination vs another .. Thats should be present. Why ? Because this is thief. > > By that concept necro should have conditions and minions, guard - powerful traps, and etc .. > > > > yeah but having literally 5k range from mobility and able to get to the other side of the map in less than 10 seconds while having stealth for about a min permanently AND gatekeeping squishy sidenoders... thats too much. Its a hit and run class which should be easy to kill but it has damage reduction traits which contradicts it, both its mobility AND damage reduction shouldve been nerfed so they done 50% of it. This was big yikes to read. Thief being hit and run but easy to kill means they aren't allowed to fight. DD is supposed to give thief the option to have a dueling playstyle but staff has been nerfed into irrelevance and now you want to nerf the pitiful damage reduction they get? You know a thief still dies if they try to actually fight something, right? That's why they run. Also lol 1 minute permanent stealth uptime. What a joke.

> @"Stephen.6312" said: > > @"Tashigi.3159" said: > > Can we please just remove this from the game? Or at least address how unbalanced it is when used on classes that rely on dodge to remove the kitten condi or the fact that it can be re-applied almost immediately after removing? Or put it higher on priority for condi cleanse. > > Just do something about it 'cause unless you're playing a specific build/class to counter it, there is 0 fun had fighting against people who build around immobilize. > > I think that it would be better to simply tweak immobilisation. Every profession has something that not only defines it, but also draws exasperated calls for nerfs from disaffected players. Immobilisation is one of the primary ways that a ranger controls the battlefield and defines itself. When you go after a class-defining thing, you need to tread carefully. Last I checked, the class defining thing for Ranger is the pet mechanics, not immobilize.

> @"Kachros.4751" said: > > @"otto.5684" said: > > > @"Calanthe.3857" said: > > > I had just started using Celestial amulet and I wish they had at least given a one-sentence explanation for why it was removed, for those of us not really familiar with the reasons. > > > > I doubt it went beyond, 1-2 builds use it, and Anet thinks they are over performing. Instead of addressing these builds they just removed the amulet. > > Not entirely correct, i seen a friend using cele amulet guard with hammer, decent pressure and good decap potential while not dying 1v1 or 1v2. THIS was why it was removed, to stop builds like this and most people would want a nerf if another build turned up similar to this. This dealt with an unhealthy aspect of the game in a good way. If your friend is making Cele hammer guardian work, then that's a much bigger indication the people he was fighting were very either VERY bad, or that there was a viable option to run hammer guard. Your response to this is "No! These builds aren't allowed! Remove Cele!" Why? Is hammer guard not allowed to exist because people don't know how to deal with it? The unhealthy aspect of the game not being addressed is people asking for thing they don't like to just be removed instead of figuring out how to deal with them. You wonder why our build diversity is such trash? This is why.

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > who cares about these traits. relying on auto procs is bad anyway, why do people care so much about these lol. i get it they're useless in pvp/ wvw and they take up a slot but its not hard to not care about something you shouldn't rely on anyway. Who cares about these traits? Idk maybe people who use the traitlines and expect them to be reworked as promised and not left to be useless for a year.

> @"Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365" said: > warriors are gonna be able to do stuff in their own bubble so thats good i guess What are they gonna do? Shoutbreaker wasn't doing anything but going REEEEE with a hammer and dps is LOL

> @"Linken.6345" said: > You mean one of the golden childs since release. > > Well it was about god kitten time. I can't tell if this is satire or not....

> @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said: > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > You were supposed to delete everything **but** Celestial amulet. 0/10 balance. Smh > > But removing the amulet is easier. > They coming for demolisher next. You know there are idiots that will call for Demo to be removed too because it's too tanky lol

> @"felix.2386" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > > > 0/10 horrible kitten change. How is a skill balanced for 8 years then suddenly it's too good? HOW? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you mean being meta for 8 years? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Thief mobility was never balanced to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That IS a big nerf, don't get me wrong, but thief is still the most mobile class out there and mobility in this game needs to be brought down. I can absolutely understand them not being happy, but this is long overdue lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay but there was nothing given in compensation. Shortbow is now by far the most expensive weapon and it's a utility weapon. You can't make the most important tool on the class so expensive and just leave them with nothing in return. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What? You want compensation? lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SB already offers a buttload of utility in every skill to the point of being a pretty much mandatory weapon to have and you want compensation? Be glad that was all they did to it lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was mandatory because of IA, and Anet refused to stop bloating Choking Gas and jacking up the initiative cost when nobody asked for it. You can remove every skill on the weapon except IA and it will still be mandatory, so cut the bloating and costs of the other skills if it's gonna take over half the ini bar to use one skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is just Anet being lazy with balance just like they do with rev. Instead of cutting down the utility they just bloat them and jack up the costs and call it a day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > another clueless post, if there's only IA remain, rifle would be meta. > > > > > > > literally IA is not the only thing that is strong, i can duel mesmers with shortbow only, first stealthed attack give 2 second immob, which is super strong, which you can follow up with CB which hit a lot and is also aoe that clears clones and there's also evade that you can occasionally use when being immobed > > > > > > > and choking gas is op in team fight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SB is literally enabling thief to teamfight and lock enemy down with stealth SB attack, of course noob like you wouldn't know > > > > > > > > > > > > You're the clueless one if you think Rifle is going to be meta anytime soon, or DE in general lol Enough said. > > > > > > > > > > you are clueless if you think SB is only used for IA, and i never said rifle is going to be meta, because i know SB exist. > > > > > i said rifle is going to be meta, if SB only has IA left, which is impossible. > > > > > you are some how mentally challenged because you can't read. > > > > > > > > I didn't say it was used ONLY *for IA*, dummy. Take your own advice and read. > > > > > > You said it is mandatory *for IA*, some how you don't understand what you said yourself. > > > > Mandatory for IA doesn't mean you only use IA, dummy. I just got done saying they bloated the fool out of skills like Choking Gas and jacked up the cost instead of toning down the functions and now the whole weapon is too bloated and expensive, but you could still take that away and leave nothing but IA and it would still be used. That's obviously not how it is now, and you use other skills because they're strong too, but IA is still the identity of the weapon. > > it literally is not mandatory for IA. the whole SB kit is good. what can't you understand. and how they toning down the functions, choking gas function literally got buffed by miles. Ofc the whole kit is good, but you can take it all away and leave IA and it will still be used. Choking gas didn't daze on hit and wasn't unblockable, and also didn't cost 7 ini. Obvious solution? Revert it to how it was before where it dazed on a certain number of poison stacks, make it no longer unblockable and reduce the Ini cost. That's how you cut bloat. Now we'd be able to use it more than just once or twice, especially if you used IA once now because it costs over half the ini bar. Edit: This is also only possible because Thief is forever jailed to Trickery. If we were trying to run with only 12 ini again, then LOL have fun never being able to cast anything.

> @"felix.2386" said: > > @"noiwk.2760" said: > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > @"noiwk.2760" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > They removed ANOTHER amulet. This pvp is falling further into the dumpster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cele amulet should have never came back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And this is why the game is like this and several more people left. Nice job bud. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The amulet did too much by design unfortunately > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh please, it had a lower stat value and still did too much? That's a sign we've got crappy options if Cele is too strong. What used it besides Renegade? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > They removed ANOTHER amulet. This pvp is falling further into the dumpster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cele amulet should have never came back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And this is why the game is like this and several more people left. Nice job bud. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The amulet did too much by design unfortunately > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ?? Did you not read the stats on that thing. It overall had LOWER stat values then ALL of the amulets currently within the game. Are you PURPOSEFULLY choosing to ignore that fact. When you picked celestial your RUNE mattered more because of how low the value was. Are you serious rn?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's you guys who don't read the stats, celestial had higher vitality and toughness then paladin and did more damage then paladin with the combination of power/condition damage/precision/ferocity on top of having healing power > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i like how only noob with no idea complains about removal of these amulets. you are really just getting carried by builds really.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two minor stats have a lower total than Cele, big whoop. It's 60 points, and Paladin is a trash amulet to begin with. I don't use Cele builds but I'm also not so bad I thought they were busted. If we had better stat options then Cele would be even less relevant, but idiots that like taking amulets away don't realize this. > > > > > > > > > > > > you realize what you saying make no sense right? > > > > > > > > > > > > you realize there's barely any stats with toughness, and paladin was supposed to be the tanky double defense stats, yet celestial not only has more defense stats, also does more damage if you build for hybrid. that's what we call busted. > > > > > > > > > > > > also celestial even nerfed, will only serve noobs to play cancer braindead build which will build toxicity to the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > and " If we had better stat options then Cele would be even less relevant" what does it even mean, are you asking for more busted stat, are you saying you don't care about balance, because this is what it sounds like, > > > > > > > > > > > > and yes you are skill less. > > > > > > > > > > Paladin is a bad stat combo, end of story. If you're complaining Cele was better because you're a hybrid build, then congrats it's doing its job. Does Cele do more damge if you aren't a hybrid build? No because you've got wasted stats, obviously. So you can try to cherry pick situations where Cele is better and act like there was no alternative or downsides to it, but it just makes you look stupid. Anet's been taking out tanky amulets for a while now because of whining people like you, so if you're upset Paladin, the supposed Tanky amulet, is so weak, be upset at yourself and Anet for removing every other option. Eventually we'll be down to nothing but Berserker stats because Marauders is too tanky and does too much damage. /s but not really > > > > > > > > > > > > 100% the nerf to paladin was kitten.. it should;ve kept the 3k total start .. > > > > and deleting celestial is another dumb kitten .. ... also they just ruined the meta even more.. so now it gonna be just tanky core necro guardians.. and daredevil metal.. nice.. > > > > > > Funny how you said nerf to paladin was kitten then complain about tanky builds. > > > you people are really clueless and have no idea what you talking about don't you. > > > > the amu isnt the solution .. tanky core necro is tanky not just because of the amu.. sure its amu got 900 vit but its not why its op.. give reaper 900 vit will it be tanky ? no.. > > and i didnt complain about core neco.. i said it will be part of the strict meta... i only have 1 complain and its stealth and daredevil the rest is fine as it is.. > > of course amulet isnt the solution, when most build using this amulet isn't toxic. > with celestial, i'll teach you kids, has been toxic and busted whenever it become usable, it's either completely unplayed or if it's played it's toxic and busted. > that only explain how flawed the design is. > > also the stat combination enables toxic braindead build with no skill. > just like how toughness/vitality/condition damage will never make it to pvp, because it is toxic and stupid. You keep crying about toxic toxic toxic. What does that even mean? How is a stat combination toxic? It's not, it's just you whining about it because you couldn't handle or work around builds running it. I also missed calling out the stupidity of you saying Sage is Hybrid damage. Dude, just because it has power stats, which is literally EVERY AMULET BESIDES RABID, that doesn't make it Hybrid. You've got no ferocity, how tf do you plan to do any physical damage?

> @"felix.2386" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > 0/10 horrible kitten change. How is a skill balanced for 8 years then suddenly it's too good? HOW? > > > > > > > > > > you mean being meta for 8 years? > > > > > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > > > > > Thief mobility was never balanced to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That IS a big nerf, don't get me wrong, but thief is still the most mobile class out there and mobility in this game needs to be brought down. I can absolutely understand them not being happy, but this is long overdue lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Okay but there was nothing given in compensation. Shortbow is now by far the most expensive weapon and it's a utility weapon. You can't make the most important tool on the class so expensive and just leave them with nothing in return. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What? You want compensation? lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SB already offers a buttload of utility in every skill to the point of being a pretty much mandatory weapon to have and you want compensation? Be glad that was all they did to it lol > > > > > > > > > > > > It was mandatory because of IA, and Anet refused to stop bloating Choking Gas and jacking up the initiative cost when nobody asked for it. You can remove every skill on the weapon except IA and it will still be mandatory, so cut the bloating and costs of the other skills if it's gonna take over half the ini bar to use one skill. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is just Anet being lazy with balance just like they do with rev. Instead of cutting down the utility they just bloat them and jack up the costs and call it a day. > > > > > > > > > > another clueless post, if there's only IA remain, rifle would be meta. > > > > > literally IA is not the only thing that is strong, i can duel mesmers with shortbow only, first stealthed attack give 2 second immob, which is super strong, which you can follow up with CB which hit a lot and is also aoe that clears clones and there's also evade that you can occasionally use when being immobed > > > > > and choking gas is op in team fight. > > > > > > > > > > SB is literally enabling thief to teamfight and lock enemy down with stealth SB attack, of course noob like you wouldn't know > > > > > > > > You're the clueless one if you think Rifle is going to be meta anytime soon, or DE in general lol Enough said. > > > > > > you are clueless if you think SB is only used for IA, and i never said rifle is going to be meta, because i know SB exist. > > > i said rifle is going to be meta, if SB only has IA left, which is impossible. > > > you are some how mentally challenged because you can't read. > > > > I didn't say it was used ONLY *for IA*, dummy. Take your own advice and read. > > You said it is mandatory *for IA*, some how you don't understand what you said yourself. Mandatory for IA doesn't mean you only use IA, dummy. I just got done saying they bloated the fool out of skills like Choking Gas and jacked up the cost instead of toning down the functions and now the whole weapon is too bloated and expensive, but you could still take that away and leave nothing but IA and it would still be used. That's obviously not how it is now, and you use other skills because they're strong too, but IA is still the identity of the weapon.

> @"felix.2386" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"felix.2386" said: > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > > > They removed ANOTHER amulet. This pvp is falling further into the dumpster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cele amulet should have never came back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And this is why the game is like this and several more people left. Nice job bud. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The amulet did too much by design unfortunately > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh please, it had a lower stat value and still did too much? That's a sign we've got crappy options if Cele is too strong. What used it besides Renegade? > > > > > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > > @"mes.4607" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Lilyanna.9361" said: > > > > > > > > > > They removed ANOTHER amulet. This pvp is falling further into the dumpster. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cele amulet should have never came back > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And this is why the game is like this and several more people left. Nice job bud. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The amulet did too much by design unfortunately > > > > > > > > > > > > ?? Did you not read the stats on that thing. It overall had LOWER stat values then ALL of the amulets currently within the game. Are you PURPOSEFULLY choosing to ignore that fact. When you picked celestial your RUNE mattered more because of how low the value was. Are you serious rn?? > > > > > > > > > > it's you guys who don't read the stats, celestial had higher vitality and toughness then paladin and did more damage then paladin with the combination of power/condition damage/precision/ferocity on top of having healing power > > > > > > > > > > i like how only noob with no idea complains about removal of these amulets. you are really just getting carried by builds really.. > > > > > > > > Two minor stats have a lower total than Cele, big whoop. It's 60 points, and Paladin is a trash amulet to begin with. I don't use Cele builds but I'm also not so bad I thought they were busted. If we had better stat options then Cele would be even less relevant, but idiots that like taking amulets away don't realize this. > > > > > > you realize what you saying make no sense right? > > > > > > you realize there's barely any stats with toughness, and paladin was supposed to be the tanky double defense stats, yet celestial not only has more defense stats, also does more damage if you build for hybrid. that's what we call busted. > > > > > > also celestial even nerfed, will only serve noobs to play cancer braindead build which will build toxicity to the game. > > > > > > and " If we had better stat options then Cele would be even less relevant" what does it even mean, are you asking for more busted stat, are you saying you don't care about balance, because this is what it sounds like, > > > > > > and yes you are skill less. > > > > Paladin is a bad stat combo, end of story. If you're complaining Cele was better because you're a hybrid build, then congrats it's doing its job. Does Cele do more damge if you aren't a hybrid build? No because you've got wasted stats, obviously. So you can try to cherry pick situations where Cele is better and act like there was no alternative or downsides to it, but it just makes you look stupid. Anet's been taking out tanky amulets for a while now because of whining people like you, so if you're upset Paladin, the supposed Tanky amulet, is so weak, be upset at yourself and Anet for removing every other option. Eventually we'll be down to nothing but Berserker stats because Marauders is too tanky and does too much damage. /s but not really /s. > > Doing it's job of what? being toxic and busted? > so you are saying being toxic and busted is doing it's job so it shouldnt be removed? you are making no sense > there are plenty of hybrid stats that's not busted like sage. > pvp is about balance, not power creep, get out. You'd have to be pretty stupid to think Cele was toxic, and all that really means is you don't know how to deal with builds running it. And if you think Cele was power creep then LOL We're in the opposite of power creep right now where everything is being nerfed into oblivion. Just stop, you're just making yourself look dumber.

> @"Halikus.1406" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Halikus.1406" said: > > > > > Thief mobility was never balanced to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > That IS a big nerf, don't get me wrong, but thief is still the most mobile class out there and mobility in this game needs to be brought down. I can absolutely understand them not being happy, but this is long overdue lol > > > > > > > > Okay but there was nothing given in compensation. Shortbow is now by far the most expensive weapon and it's a utility weapon. You can't make the most important tool on the class so expensive and just leave them with nothing in return. > > > > > > What? You want compensation? lol > > > > > > SB already offers a buttload of utility in every skill to the point of being a pretty much mandatory weapon to have and you want compensation? Be glad that was all they did to it lol > > > > It was mandatory because of IA, and Anet refused to stop bloating Choking Gas and jacking up the initiative cost when nobody asked for it. You can remove every skill on the weapon except IA and it will still be mandatory, so cut the bloating and costs of the other skills if it's gonna take over half the ini bar to use one skill. > > > > This is just Anet being lazy with balance just like they do with rev. Instead of cutting down the utility they just bloat them and jack up the costs and call it a day. > > It still is a mandatory weapon for as long as IA exists. The skill could cost all of your ini and would still be a good weapon to have around because of how much it offers, so I fail to see your point at all... When you say 'SB already offers a buttload of utility in every skill to the point of being a pretty much mandatory weapon...' but then say that last post, then I don't know what stance you're taking. If you agree it's mandatory and will be because IA is so good that it can cost 15 ini, then how in the world can you justify everything else being so expensive to the point they can't be used either? Again, cut the bloat and the costs.