CutesySylveon.8290

DE can only hope to single target someone and has some of the easiest to counter burst if you don't get hit with the knockdown. It's extremely annoying to be hit with blind and immob spam kneel 2 through smoke fields, but the damage of that has been pretty heavily nerfed and straight up loses to any projectile denial. Best way to deal with a DE is to not play their game and ignore them, or drop an AoE on their kneel spot and watch them run away in stealth for a while. Pretty much any node bunker shouldn't have and struggle and a regular d/p thief can eat them alive. They also can't contribute to a teamfight except hoping to single target someone.

Wut? Rev quite literally just had a major stab nerf, where is the infinite part coming from? Also Shiro/Jalis is mega condi weak, that's how you easily counter it.

> @"Styros.8931" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Styros.8931" said: > > > can say 100 times more . If you playing d/p p/d stop crying, its broken af and you not supposed to cry about buff thiefs . If you playing non pistol weapon sets, ok understandable > > > > Once again, the guy with absolutely no understanding of thief is here to say pistol is the problem when both sets using the same weapon are completely different and have nothing to do with each other. > > yes its completly different , BUT . D/P is best power and P/D best condi , there no other weapon sets, literally because pistol giving too much impact in both ways Except pistol is literally only half the weapon set on each set, and both are also using dagger. S/d also uses dagger, s/p also uses pistol and that one is garbage along with p/p. There is absolutely nothing wrong or overpowered about pistol, you've just created a boogeyman with sweeping generalizations about things because they're the same item despite functioning entirely differently. Try running p/p, or better yet a pistol in only one slot each and see how far they go.

> @"RedAvenged.5217" said: > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > @"RedAvenged.5217" said: > > > > @"Zephoid.4263" said: > > > > Ah right.. all those ppl using hammer, bow, and shield. You know, literally no one. Therefore we need to nerf them. > > > > > > Ppl use shield excessively, bow is not bad atm for a support but hammer which could be awesome just doesnt hit much. Weapons are decent, nerf sword 100% doesn’t have to be a lot 25% nerf to damage condi + power and shield w.e nerf leave rest of them the same but wouldn’t mind hammer hitting more often > > > > Please, find me a remotely meta build that uses shield. > > There is no build that uses bow. Healbrand was nerfed out of existence. > > Spirit Hammer has been bad for literally forever. And it actually got nerfs at one point, despite being straight unused. Just to make sure it never was. > > Sword has been the only viable one. > > > > Guard is only viable atm because of the CC nerf. Lets bring CC damage back and watch how guard goes back to straight useless. Having little to no stab, no prot, few stun breaks, and little condi cleanse makes a pretty awful build. Burn guard was almost always the bunker breaker and almost every class atm is a bunker due to the lack of damage across the board. Fixing the zero damage CC problem solves a lot of the most UP classes too, as any sort of dps warrior was hit way to hard by that silly change. > > Are u insane - metabattle.com literally the guard meta be it cheese or not has shield as an option and it’s more often abused than almost all the variants? Some ppl use the bow on supports- I see some ppl use bow on their variants of meta like blackjack a very good guard which is only reason I really mention it. 2/4 spirit weapons are meta 3/4 good 1/4 just don’t work much cuz it’s animation is bad, but this is gw2 and that’s good for most things especially guard. > > My statement stands... I quite literally haven't seen any spirit weapons ever used in the last like 6 months that wasn't someone trying to make Bow work on Healbrand and failing miserably. If metabattle is trying to say any of them are viable beyond sword, then the site is just flat out wrong.

> @"Styros.8931" said: > can say 100 times more . If you playing d/p p/d stop crying, its broken af and you not supposed to cry about buff thiefs . If you playing non pistol weapon sets, ok understandable Once again, the guy with absolutely no understanding of thief is here to say pistol is the problem when both sets using the same weapon are completely different and have nothing to do with each other.

> @"Kuma.1503" said: > Laggy Necro? Pfff, weak. > > Let me tell you about the true god. Laggy Warrior. Laggy desync Bulls Charge is something to behold.

> @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > > > > it is shiro not herald, also devastation traitline, herald and renegade just give it might for even larger bursts > > > > > > It's not just Shiro when every Rev build runs the same weapons solely for the purpose of how they can attack and move with complete impunity on a PvE cooldown cycle. Every build has staff. If it's not staff with sword/X, then it's staff with shortbow. It's so easy to make a rev flub its attacks, but it's often difficult to punish it considering how it will just chain its damage/CC mitigation/scripted movement in a straight line away from danger and often survive. > > > > That's because there are literally no other options. Mace is terrible if not running condi and hammer is meme tier bad. That leaves you with swords and staff in core/Herald and Shortbow in renegade. Shortbow has absolutely no defensive utility so of course you're going to bring staff, otherwise you're just setting yourself up to be easily pressured. On top of this, staff has been extremely neutered and does almost no damage at all anymore and has the only non traited cleanse skill on any weapon for the whole class. You want to see different weapon sets? Give us more options. > > "Defensive utility" is just another word for artificially lengthening combat. The times at which and manners in which anybody uses anything that somebody in GW2 might defend as "defensive utility" are SO BINARY, that it doesn't require any thinking. If anything, skills like those on rev staff and sword (among every other identical instance of "defensive utility" scattered across all other weapons on all other classes), are little more than timelapse buffers that people effortlessly slot in between their other easy-mode damage and engagement skills. Are you saying that defensive tools shouldn't exist and people should just slap each other head on until they die? Even warrior skills have defensive utility like Bulls Charge evade frames, it lets you dodge an attack and punish with a CC or just used as a straight up defensive tool to escape with mobility and evade frames, a lot like SotM. If you waste your defensive tools, you die. If you mindlessly use staff 3 and 5 on rev, you die because now you're that much more vulnerable. And again, when you say effortlessly slot in between easy mode damage and engagement...rev has no other options, that's the only other viable weapon. Hammer also has a skill intended to do the same thing with Phase Smash, it's just a really bad weapon. Staff also has very little damage so when you swap to it, it's to keep you alive, not use between other offensive options. If these things didn't exist then the game would just be a dps contest. Imagine ele with no defensive utility, it'd just die to a stiff breeze.

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"megilandil.7506" said: > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > @"megilandil.7506" said: > > > > > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > > > > > just nerf spinning sword > > > > > > > > and how? > > > > spining sword(SoJ) have 0 problems, its the way it works the full kit that interact to well with spining sword, guard aplies burn by natural 1 every 5 hits if you trait is 1 every 3 and in AoE, thats it, but for the other part they dont have a proper condy weapon set/utilities all is tied to passive justice ticking if you nerf passive justice or traits tied to it you make condi guard inviable, the only other way to nerf Soj for burnguard is reducing the ticks of SoJ but to compensate for power variant every tick have to hurt more > > > > > > no compensation. > > > > > > they have 4 casts, with 4 hits each, and each hit applies burning, plus additional burning every 3 or 5 hits. > > > > > > hyrbid style or even carrion can add stuff up real quick. > > > > > > NO COMPENSATION. > > > > > > REDUCE STRIKE, REDUCE AMMO, REDUCE REDUCE, DEUCE DEUCE > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, delete guard.... > > There is a lot of more problematic classes that stayed problematic always, but delete guard... because no other variant work in this moment and this one is just a one trick pony > > We all defend our favorite classes cheese, but if dropping some nerfs on these will delete guard, it says much about the state of the game lol You mean the state of PvP and its playerbase that can't handle a PvE skill? Yeah, says a lot.

> @"Armen.1483" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > If you play rev, you should know that Dragon stance has no issues with energy whatsoever, and along with that broken heal skill it is indeed insanely strong. But I would still ask you which are the cons you are talking about ? I will add that I agree that some points that people brought before about 'no cooldowns" are not taking into consideration the energy part which is kinda wrong. BUT with legendary dragon stance spamming weapon skills which have low coolodwns and sometimes are very strong is still doable. I guess it is exactly the real problem: energy management in Glint is very forgiving and I don't know about any cons there. Not talking about the fact that Glint makes you play as a tank with a full glass cannon build, which is also very brokenly strong. > > > > Oh boy > > *puts on rubber gloves* > > time to perform a surgery on this paragraph. > > > > - Kuma was addressing OP's claims of a 600 range no cooldown AoE CC, aka Jade Winds. (This is false because Jade Winds cost 50 Energy, essentially putting a ~6 second cooldown on not only itself, but any 30 Energy or higher skill on a 3 second cooldown while Energy refills) > > > > - Oh boy, why do everyone have problems with Infuse Light but no problems with Defiant Stance? Ah well, it's up to Anet to up the visual clarity, but it's by no means a "broken skill" since any player with half a brain and at higher levels of play have no issues with this skill. If yu lose to this one skill, yu deserve to stay in pleb tier. > > > > - The whole Rev weaponskills have Low Cooldowns thing is a thing like, 3 years ago. Rev Weaponskills have actual long cooldowns now. > > The only Rev weapon which has "low cooldowns" is Mace 2 and Mace 3. > > Don't believe me? Go look it up on the Wiki. > > But just for benefit for those who are too lazy to open up a new tab : Sword 2 8s, Sword 3 15s, Sword 4 15s, Sword 5 18s > > If anything, Rev's Sword/Sword cooldowns have been normalized, and actually puts Rev in a disadvantage from sharing the same resource pool as their Utilities. > > But maybe this is why Rev still has high burst damage, because they are sacrificing Energy for it. > > > > - Energy Management in Glint is "very forgiving" if yu look at it as if Herald camps Glint. > > Truth of the matter is if yu use all of Glint actives and are done with Sword Actives, yur basically sitting on a large Energy pool with nothing but Autos and Sword 2 to fill damage. Don't forget, Glint Facets have actual cooldowns like any other class, so what do they do? Swap to Shiro of course, and bam all yur skills have enormous Energy costs. > > > > Oh boy now yu know all of our cons, but for the benefit of the slower players, lemme break down how to beat a Revenant, especially a Power Herald : > > - Heralds usually start Shiro in order to use Enchanted Blades and PT to facilitate their gap close and burst. > > This is the only part where yu can't really counter if yu are getting +1, so welp, suck it up, yu just got +1, do yu really expect to see it coming? > > > > - If a Herald uses a PT > Sword2/Sword 4 combo to jump anyone, they are left essentially dry for 2s there are alot of things yu can do within this 2s. > > A. counter by throwing a CC (WOOP DE DOO GUESS WHO AUTOMATICALLY COUNTERS A MELEE AGGRESSOR! DRUMROLL PLEASE : Dragon's Maw) > > B. retaliate with a burst > > C. LoS the Rev and try to escape > > > > - So now yu survived a majority of the Herald's damage, and yu can start pressuring them because of their low Energy, but they swap to Glint, what do I do? > > Glint has 1 Stunbreak 2 Actives for damage, and 1 Emergency heal and 1 CC. > > Goal here is to pressure them into popping their Emergency heal. > > This is when yu burst with 2 bursts in yur Arsenal. > > If they use Sword 3, wait for first damage tick and dodge. Yu will negate 80% of the damage from the skill. > > If they use Sword 5, yu have 10 years to dodge the second hit just by running through their character model, cancelling the second hit. (this is called turning because they are facing their character forward, while their character is trying to turn to hit yu, causing the player to interrupt themselves) > > > > - Oh shid oh fug, the Rev is now in trouble, with about 50% health and no more Infuse Light (provided yur not filling their Health up like a noob). > > They are now in Shiro after expanding Glint and Infuse Light, which means they are in deep trouble due to not having a proper heal with Enchanted Blades, and only Staff left for defense. They are now on the defense. > > > > This is when yu slap on pressure with auto attacks to force them to use Staff block and Staff 5 to negate their damage. > > > > After they do this, they are basically dead. > > > > I play revenant myself, I know all of that, though on most parts I have to disagree with you. I don't think that OP was trying to imply that jade wings is spammable, you just interpreted like that. It has no cooldowns, but I am pretty sure he knows about energy part. And ofc you can do a meme combo by spamming it twice in 1 teamfight if you can afk for a while. It won't bring much but lolz and will probably lose you a teamfight, but it is certainly doable to stun 6 seconds the whole enemy team. Should you do it ? probably not, and I didn't see OP either advocating for that. So no need to disrespect him for reminding about low cooldwons, he certainly knows about energy costs. > > And again, do I understand you correctly ? You agree with me that glint energy management is forgiving and put it in brackets. If you play condi rene for example, you don't camp anything either but gotta be more careful about energy if you are playing demon/rene especially if you wanna use staff. I didn't say people MUST camp glint, because it has low energy. However even if you do camp Glint in a teamfight you bring a lot of value to your team with facets even if your personal DPS suffers, it can be pretty good in some situations, but my point wasn't that, you are misinterpreting what I've wrote. > > And btw if you got nothing to do with your energy in Glint, you are probably playing it wrong, Facet of Chaos will be of a great help to make all your team a tank and drain your energy. Alternatively, you got staff to use. And sometimes even you want to actually camp Glint as long as possible if you want to kite 2 enemies. Then swap and get away. This example along with your examples is situational of course, but I guess it doesn't matter. So yeah, you got many uses for your excess energy in Herald stance and it is pretty kitten strong. Bring some good arguments so we can discuss really. All that post for me is very arbitrary. Don't take everyone as noobs in these forums, if we are here, we might know something about rev, maybe just maybe we are playing it too. > > I am not gonna comment about the heal skill. All has been said before, that thing certainly needs a nerf. If a warrior or can do a full heal too, it doesn't mean that the instacast full heal/invulnerability skill is not op. Comparative arguments here are not valid in my opinion. Stopped reading the moment you said Jade Winds has no CD because it does. You say you play revenant but you don't know that?

> @"Cynz.9437" said: > > @"Shao.7236" said: > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > @"Kuma.1503" said: > > > > Thief skill breaks > > > > > > > > Anet: Dw fam I gotchu > > > > > > > > Kalla Elite doesn't have fire field for months > > > > > > > > Anet: I'm just gonna ignore that. > > > > > > There are a lot of thief skills that are not working, some since launch. Don't worry, thieves are in same boat and often die due to those bugs (actually have to build and play around those bugs since they affect most builds). The reason why bound was fixed is most likely due to pve (raids say hello). Also, hammer is inconsistent while bounding dodger effect was simply removed - the last is probably easier to fix than wonky mechanics. > > > > They broke the skill consistency since the added uniformity in the damage and it's only gotten worst with the targeting added with the dislocated hitbox in front of the player, so really It's not hard to fix, they're just not doing it. Shouldn't have had to fix what wasn't broke, or broke what was working fine beforehand. > > > > The skill is really popular in WvW too so there's no reason to neglect it so badly. > > Did you really just assume that they care about class balance in wvw lol? Well, that is quite literally the only reason it was ever changed. Hammer is used absolutely nowhere but WvW as ranged burst damage. The damage nerfs, damage equalizing, and the CD nerfs were all 100% done in attempt to balance around WvW. So...yes, they do. Certainly not often, but it's the case here.

As much as I hate to say it, hammer rev will likely never be fixed or usable in spvp.

> @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said: > > it is shiro not herald, also devastation traitline, herald and renegade just give it might for even larger bursts > > It's not just Shiro when every Rev build runs the same weapons solely for the purpose of how they can attack and move with complete impunity on a PvE cooldown cycle. Every build has staff. If it's not staff with sword/X, then it's staff with shortbow. It's so easy to make a rev flub its attacks, but it's often difficult to punish it considering how it will just chain its damage/CC mitigation/scripted movement in a straight line away from danger and often survive. That's because there are literally no other options. Mace is terrible if not running condi and hammer is meme tier bad. That leaves you with swords and staff in core/Herald and Shortbow in renegade. Shortbow has absolutely no defensive utility so of course you're going to bring staff, otherwise you're just setting yourself up to be easily pressured. On top of this, staff has been extremely neutered and does almost no damage at all anymore and has the only non traited cleanse skill on any weapon for the whole class. You want to see different weapon sets? Give us more options.

Are people really complaining about Jade Winds again? Feels like a long time since I heard that one. Also it does have a CD, it's just primarily held back from being used again because it costs 50 energy. It's one of the most obvious skills in the game, so a rev player HAS to play mind games by canceling it and making you guess if it's a real cast. If you're eating them raw, it's a you problem. If you fell for a cancel cast, then you got outplayed. Sword burst is only if you eat two skills back to back that are pretty easy to see coming. Omg a block and an evade! OP! Not. That evade does like 50 damage now and is so easy to dodge or stow attacks because of the ridiculous windup animation. BTW only one thing you mentioned was actually a Herald thing.

> @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said: > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > > Why? Seriously, this change does literally *nothing* other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would *marginally* care is trapper DH. > > > > > > Stealth is annoying, thats why. DE being non-meta has been very good for the game. DD and core thief have been carried by stealth for years and thief mains always cry about nerfs that attempt to balance this. Stealth 1 shots are dumb. Stealth resets are dumb. Constant stealthing in combat is dumb. Stealth is far too abundant and its bad for the game. > > > > > > > We shouldnt nerf things just because theyre annoying. A lot of people find conditions very annoying. Or Blocks, or invuln. This also doesnt actually hit regular thieves because you dont stealth in-combat. DD and Core Thief were *never* "carried by stealth", the only thing that was "carrying" them is Shortbow 5. They dropped D/P for S/P and S/D before, remember? Stealth 1 shots dont exist outside of maybe Mesmer anymore. Stealth resets are just inferior to shortbow 5 resets because the enemy can punish you for it. In-combat stealth is basically telling your enemy "kill me, Im giving you 1.25 seconds of free damage that I wont be able to defend myself during, so this is an easy guaranteed kill". Stealth is not even nearly as relevant as people think it is, let alone bad for the game. > > In this case, annoying means bad design. Yes sb 5 is strong, but stealth often enables its effectiveness. Stealth gives thieves the means to decap or enter a +1 without the enemy knowing, sb 5 just allows them to travel faster and have z axis mobility. s/d has had a role in pvp for ages, and s/p was mainly a meme when people realized that noobs dont know how to deal with pistol whip. The 2 main thief builds for the last year have been d/p and condi, both usually running SA. Combat stealth is very strong because it breaks target, and you can reposition while your opponent can only guess your location. Stealth is far more relevant than you think, and yes, too much of it is bad for the game. Annoying is 100% relevant to the person in question, and isn't indicative of design at all. In other words, your opinion. You don't like it and therefore want it nerfed.

> @"UNOwen.7132" said: > Why? Seriously, this change does literally *nothing* other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would *marginally* care is trapper DH. And once Trapper runes are nerfed or gone from all the complaints, it won't affect DH at all, so DE gets screwed even more.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > @"CroTiger.7819" > > Reread the OP post carefully. > > I did not say DH or Trap Rune was OP. > > I said that DH being able to thieve & mesmer like actual thieves & mesmers is dumb and shouldn't be happening from a sheer design standpoint. > > It is as equally dumb as if my Ranger had a rune that allowed it summon phantasms each time I used a Wilderness Survival Skill, or if there were a rune that summoned rocket turrets every time a Signet was used. > > And then I could toss the same types of wonky defenses and distractions in threads that attempt to point out how broken those runes were, that people are tossing in here. I could say: "My Ranger build needs the phantasms. Why is it weird that my Ranger can summon phantasms? Isn't every class supposed to be able to do everything?" yada yada yada. > > It's w/e man. Enjoy your Trap Rune. This thread is just my opinion. Except they aren't being thief and mesmer like because stealth and ports aren't thief and Mesmer exclusive, so your analogy about ranger and phantasms isn't valid because that's a class specific mechanic, as is steal and initiate for thief. Most classes have ports, and 4/9 have independent access to stealth, and just because only two can do both without a rune doesn't mean the concept is specific to them and has to be kept as such. There are runes that do things like summon light disks or flocks of birds and those are quite literally specific skills on classes that suddenly every class can do with those runes, yet nobody cares.

If you spec your build for a specific purpose, it should be able to do it to some extent, regardless of how similar it is to other classes. Nobody cares about class themes, those went out the window long ago with elite specs that are supposed to change how a class plays. If building to be mesmer or thieflike means they sacrifice pretty much all forms of sustain for damage and mobility, which is only raw movement speed outside of F2 and sword port, then it sounds like they earned it. Seriously, immob this build and they can't run anywhere without a target to sword port away to, whereas thief and Mesmer have numerous other means of escape in situations they get caught up in. Is shiro rev too thief and mesmer like because it's super mobile? Oh it doesn't have stealth so that makes it different, maybe? Not really because rev is still much harder to catch. This build has serious flaws that people refuse to exploit and continue to bash their heads against then come to the forums. It's depressing, especially when any statements not calling it busted gets you accused of defending it because we supposedly play it. Nope, I just know how to deal with it. Either learn how to do so as well or continue to be frustrated by it.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > Here is an interesting look at a bit of truth beyond the psychology of these power vs. condi debacles: > > > > > > > > > > Imagine how much more it would kitten people off, if Maul & WI dealt the same exact damage that they did now, but it happened over the course of 10 seconds. So I hit a guy with Maul into WI and then he tries to run away, only to watch his health pool disappear over the course of 10s as he teleports away around a corner and completely disengages me, but still goes into downstate. There is something about "Getting away but then still dying" that really triggers people. And as much as some would not want to admit this, it is absolutely 100% true. > > > > Agreed some peeps think of condi like "damage already done overtime" but they would not consider the same for power damage because that would be outrageous. > > > > > > > > When the Feb balance patch happened all power damage and **sustain** was nerfed but not the condi output and damage. As such Conditions are overtuned at the moment and it should be addressed. > > > > > > > > I don't understand why that concept is that is that difficult to grasp. > > > > > > > > > > Ummmm, he wasn't agreeing with you. > > > > > > If Maul did the exact same total damage over 10s rather than instantly, nothing would change with regards Ranger's strength. Infact, if anything, it would become weaker, because it would give people a chance to heal through it. But it would result in a whole lot more people whinging about it. > > > > > > While we're on the subject of Ranger: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hunter%27s_Call > > > > > > Is everyone crying about how OP this is? > > > > > > And I already said I'd be fine with Power damage happening over time (as, in fact, it does already on some skills). But you seem to have ignored that. > > > > What people seem to forget when they start whining about condi doing xxx damage in total is that it's not instant, they go 'zomg 5k in one skill. Op!' because the tooltip said so. Not only can it be healed through by not being instant, but in the case of condi it can be cleansed and entirely negated after someone got hit with it. A more accurate comparison using Maul would be that it did the same damage over time but could be healed through and negated by another skill after you already got slapped. I can already picture the QQ if Maul or WI worked like that. > > Lmao 5k what? No the issue is when stacks and tick damage are so high AND reapliable with such ease that not only is the damage in the 20k-25k range (sometimes more) but it's also easily reapplied which is the problem as even if u wait for full stacks and lose 50% of ur hp before cleansing they just get reapplied so the just cleanse argument falls flat, not to mention on certain classes their availability promotes braindead spammy gameplay which is bad for the game but also on a class like guard a lot of it is passive lmao. Keep defending this gbage and whatcha everyone who doesn't play these classes simply quit as most have hence the population being nil. 5k per skill use was the example, not when everything is stacked on you. And in those cases you already ate the skills that applied or are continuing to apply them so chances are you would have died much earlier if it was a power build. The cleanse argument doesn't falls flat if you waste them, and that's not the fault of the cleanses. Learn when to cleanse as you learn when to block and dodge, not every single attack has to be avoided and you have to learn what to save your resources for.

> @"Ragnar.4257" said: > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > Here is an interesting look at a bit of truth beyond the psychology of these power vs. condi debacles: > > > > > > Imagine how much more it would kitten people off, if Maul & WI dealt the same exact damage that they did now, but it happened over the course of 10 seconds. So I hit a guy with Maul into WI and then he tries to run away, only to watch his health pool disappear over the course of 10s as he teleports away around a corner and completely disengages me, but still goes into downstate. There is something about "Getting away but then still dying" that really triggers people. And as much as some would not want to admit this, it is absolutely 100% true. > > Agreed some peeps think of condi like "damage already done overtime" but they would not consider the same for power damage because that would be outrageous. > > > > When the Feb balance patch happened all power damage and **sustain** was nerfed but not the condi output and damage. As such Conditions are overtuned at the moment and it should be addressed. > > > > I don't understand why that concept is that is that difficult to grasp. > > > > Ummmm, he wasn't agreeing with you. > > If Maul did the exact same total damage over 10s rather than instantly, nothing would change with regards Ranger's strength. Infact, if anything, it would become weaker, because it would give people a chance to heal through it. But it would result in a whole lot more people whinging about it. > > While we're on the subject of Ranger: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hunter%27s_Call > > Is everyone crying about how OP this is? > > And I already said I'd be fine with Power damage happening over time (as, in fact, it does already on some skills). But you seem to have ignored that. What people seem to forget when they start whining about condi doing xxx damage in total is that it's not instant, they go 'zomg 5k in one skill. Op!' because the tooltip said so. Not only can it be healed through by not being instant, but in the case of condi it can be cleansed and entirely negated after someone got hit with it. A more accurate comparison using Maul would be that it did the same damage over time but could be healed through and negated by another skill after you already got slapped. I can already picture the QQ if Maul or WI worked like that.

> @"Noah Salazar.5430" said: > > > @"snoow.1694" > Scrapper is Brusher role > Brusher is half tank, half dps > > In pvp you have diferent roles > like : > Dueler -> hight 1vs1, big burst, medium sustain > Brusher -> hight sustain, medium dmg > Roamer -> low sustain, big mobility, squishy for 1vs1, good in team fights/taking objective > Support-> offhealing/boons, usualy tanky but low dmg > > if you nerf Scrapper, he no longger will have brusher role > and cuz medium dmg, he will can't be dueler > Also becose Scrapper is brusher, his role is to tank enemy dmg and his first who will initate fight > > If dueler will do it, he will fast die from 2vs1 > > So in short Scrapper schold breake enemy line and for that he need be tanky > > But Scrapper can't kill you in 1s > or in 2s as his not dueler, he can't pinpoint you with burst > he have medium dmg who kill you progressively > > > > Thx to brusher, your duelers (dmg dealers) can walk up to enemy more safe, here how it work : >  > > > What in the world is a brusher? I think you mean a Bruiser.

> @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > Phase Traversal and Deathstrike are completely different. PT has the initial animation and hit at the port while Deathstrike has instant porting but a delay on the actual damage. If they quite literally just poofed on top of you with no tell, then Deathstrike is coming and that's your cue to dodge during the delay window. If they jumped, spun, or otherwise did an animation on port, it's PT. Also, moving in any direction that isn't directly on the Revenant will make Deathstrike miss. > > > > > > > > Vault has the sound effect to differentiate it from Bound and will also not carry momentum if they do it close range. So if they keep going with no loud sound effect, it's Bound. If they stop midair and then plummet, it's Vault. If they did it from more than like 300 range then it's Vault. > > > > > > All of this stuff is far more clearly denoted for the actual player casting the animation compared to anybody else on the field (especially if we're talking about Revenant attacking anybody since everyone knows that optimal X/sword Rev play is literally just teleporting through walls onto targets that are probably busy fighting somebody else). You don't have to aim. You don't have to really time anything. And anybody who is attacked by a Revenant who manifests from behind a wall 1200 range away is going to just reaction dodge (if they even can because lolstuns/immob/other garbage) anyway because EVERY build in this game is designed to play "stream of spam" style after full engagement is initiated. > > > > > > Considering how the OP's main point was that no tell in the game really serves its respective purpose as a proper tell, you're not really proving him wrong. > > > > Not everything should be as wildly telegraphed as warrior's kit, this just turns the game into a reaction test that becomes progressively more defensive at higher tiers of play; For Honor had this exact issue with everything being mostly telegraphed and reactable, and so the meta was defensive with people staring at each other with no way of cracking a turtle. Now it's about reads and prediction, which lets offense land. If everything is easily telegraphed then we're just going to be stuck in defensive loops. There's a reason you typically have to lock people in CC chains to get meaningful damage baring serious mistakes; so much high damage stuff is so obvious to see coming that you have no choice but to quite literally stop someone's ability to avoid them through CC, and many classes have panic buttons for these scenarios anyway. > > > > Things being done through wall ports is entirely irrelevant, as is in a +1 where you're already at a serious disadvantage by having to account for 2 people, and if it was so telegraphed that you could have someone port on top of you out of nowhere and still be easily telegraphed to dodge, then how much worse is it going to be in the open? Again, it will become nothing but a staring contest of defensive rotations. > > > > These skills have proper tells, the OP is simply not able to adequately distinguish them in the fight, which isn't the fault of the skills, no hostility intended. > > > @"Terrorhuz.4695" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > Phase Traversal and Deathstrike are completely different. PT has the initial animation and hit at the port while Deathstrike has instant porting but a delay on the actual damage. If they quite literally just poofed on top of you with no tell, then Deathstrike is coming and that's your cue to dodge during the delay window. If they jumped, spun, or otherwise did an animation on port, it's PT. Also, moving in any direction that isn't directly on the Revenant will make Deathstrike miss. > > > > > > > > > > Vault has the sound effect to differentiate it from Bound and will also not carry momentum if they do it close range. So if they keep going with no loud sound effect, it's Bound. If they stop midair and then plummet, it's Vault. If they did it from more than like 300 range then it's Vault. > > > > > > > > All of this stuff is far more clearly denoted for the actual player casting the animation compared to anybody else on the field (especially if we're talking about Revenant attacking anybody since everyone knows that optimal X/sword Rev play is literally just teleporting through walls onto targets that are probably busy fighting somebody else). You don't have to aim. You don't have to really time anything. And anybody who is attacked by a Revenant who manifests from behind a wall 1200 range away is going to just reaction dodge (if they even can because lolstuns/immob/other garbage) anyway because EVERY build in this game is designed to play "stream of spam" style after full engagement is initiated. > > > > > > > > Considering how the OP's main point was that no tell in the game really serves its respective purpose as a proper tell, you're not really proving him wrong. > > > > > > Not everything should be as wildly telegraphed as warrior's kit, this just turns the game into a reaction test that becomes progressively more defensive at higher tiers of play; For Honor had this exact issue with everything being mostly telegraphed and reactable, and so the meta was defensive with people staring at each other with no way of cracking a turtle. Now it's about reads and prediction, which lets offense land. If everything is easily telegraphed then we're just going to be stuck in defensive loops. There's a reason you typically have to lock people in CC chains to get meaningful damage baring serious mistakes; so much high damage stuff is so obvious to see coming that you have no choice but to quite literally stop someone's ability to avoid them through CC, and many classes have panic buttons for these scenarios anyway. > > > > > > Things being done through wall ports is entirely irrelevant, as is in a +1 where you're already at a serious disadvantage by having to account for 2 people, and if it was so telegraphed that you could have someone port on top of you out of nowhere and still be easily telegraphed to dodge, then how much worse is it going to be in the open? Again, it will become nothing but a staring contest of defensive rotations. > > > > > > These skills have proper tells, the OP is simply not able to adequately distinguish them in the fight, which isn't the fault of the skills, no hostility intended. > > > > I don't need to have everything as slow as arching slice. I'd just like infuse light to have a proper tell. > > I don't even want the attack itself to be slower, I just need a better visual effect to warn me "WATCH OUT SOMETHING MEANINGFUL IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN" (and we can all agree that priming infuse light IS meaningful). 0.25s cast time is fine, just place some sort of bright flash on the player's model instead of having me look at the boon bar where there are 10 other boons, 4 of which have about the same icon. > > Cues and timing need to be clear and relevant in a game where nobody has to actually aim anything and attack range varies both wildly and arbitrarily from class to class. If you're going to undermine people's ability to respond at anything less than near-instant or instant speed, then you pigeon-hole everyone's creativity by forcing all builds to play like that. It homogenizes everything into a single, grey mush that just operates at the same speed with active skills that more or less mimic each other. Aiming things has no relevance here, and in just about every situation where key skills are executed, there are ways to distinguish them but it can be difficult in the midst of a fight where you're also trying to act and pressure or where tons of stuff is happening at once. Something like Infuse Light can have multiple things done to it, imo, but stuff like Bound vs Vault and PT vs Deathstrike aren't anywhere near problematic like instant cast and effect skills. The reason builds are so homogenized now is because it's too easy to dodge key skills or otherwise use any number of defensive skills to just shut down all pressure. Baiting out dodges is one thing, but when almost every class has a get out of jail free card like Distortion or Elixir S, obviously not all of them are as ridiculous as those, it becomes a game of trapping people in place with zero opportunity to respond and that's absolutely not fun to be on the receiving end of. I personally prefer a much more nuclear meta than chaining CC to do damage or having to watch all my hard earned damage get reset because someone pressed the invuln button. It's one of the reasons why trap DH is so popular; it's easy, does tons of damage, can negate many defensive options, and can do its job from stealth so its mega telegraphed attacks have a chance to land. Trap DH is very flawed and I think people keep stubbornly bashing their heads against it instead of trying to exploit its weaknesses, but that's another topic.

> @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > Phase Traversal and Deathstrike are completely different. PT has the initial animation and hit at the port while Deathstrike has instant porting but a delay on the actual damage. If they quite literally just poofed on top of you with no tell, then Deathstrike is coming and that's your cue to dodge during the delay window. If they jumped, spun, or otherwise did an animation on port, it's PT. Also, moving in any direction that isn't directly on the Revenant will make Deathstrike miss. > > > > Vault has the sound effect to differentiate it from Bound and will also not carry momentum if they do it close range. So if they keep going with no loud sound effect, it's Bound. If they stop midair and then plummet, it's Vault. If they did it from more than like 300 range then it's Vault. > > All of this stuff is far more clearly denoted for the actual player casting the animation compared to anybody else on the field (especially if we're talking about Revenant attacking anybody since everyone knows that optimal X/sword Rev play is literally just teleporting through walls onto targets that are probably busy fighting somebody else). You don't have to aim. You don't have to really time anything. And anybody who is attacked by a Revenant who manifests from behind a wall 1200 range away is going to just reaction dodge (if they even can because lolstuns/immob/other garbage) anyway because EVERY build in this game is designed to play "stream of spam" style after full engagement is initiated. > > Considering how the OP's main point was that no tell in the game really serves its respective purpose as a proper tell, you're not really proving him wrong. Not everything should be as wildly telegraphed as warrior's kit, this just turns the game into a reaction test that becomes progressively more defensive at higher tiers of play; For Honor had this exact issue with everything being mostly telegraphed and reactable, and so the meta was defensive with people staring at each other with no way of cracking a turtle. Now it's about reads and prediction, which lets offense land. If everything is easily telegraphed then we're just going to be stuck in defensive loops. There's a reason you typically have to lock people in CC chains to get meaningful damage baring serious mistakes; so much high damage stuff is so obvious to see coming that you have no choice but to quite literally stop someone's ability to avoid them through CC, and many classes have panic buttons for these scenarios anyway. Things being done through wall ports is entirely irrelevant, as is in a +1 where you're already at a serious disadvantage by having to account for 2 people, and if it was so telegraphed that you could have someone port on top of you out of nowhere and still be easily telegraphed to dodge, then how much worse is it going to be in the open? Again, it will become nothing but a staring contest of defensive rotations. These skills have proper tells, the OP is simply not able to adequately distinguish them in the fight, which isn't the fault of the skills, no hostility intended.

> @"Shao.7236" said: > On behalf of Revenant, Deathstrike used to be slower so that Quickness was often required to land it reliably. > > Thanks to Anet and peoples complain of Slow and Chill, now that isn't the case. You can barely tell there is an animation and it promotes easy desyncs because people are not forced to track targets during it's use. MUH SWORD MUH AXE NO VARIETY AT ALL, THERES NO IDENTITY. It was really pathetic of an excuse and those changes should have never occured. > > I personally hate it with outmost passion and I really want the old slower Deathstrike speed back WITH conditions mind you so that my already insignificant variety of weapons can have some variety again, even if it's little. > > Axe is funnily enough more useful than Sword but nobody will agree to it because even after complaining about it for not having an identity, people STILL don't use it outside being a "condition" weapon yet Axe still does if not has more power damage potentially to put around than sword because it's 4th skill factors are; Multi Target, useful conditions, entirely unblockable and you have possibly unblockable team wide CC to apply with lower cooldowns. > > Infuse Light is the prime example of having good ideas and not designing them right. > > Herald by itself is supposed to involve playing around upkeep. Who does that? No one, all you will ever see is people discouraging ever keeping those up at the benefit of literally anything around you, ending up with 100% energy at all time, which is stupid. > > All facets are instant besides Facet of Light, which is understandable because it's a heal, however everything else has a cast time then the heal itself is instant after activation. Do you see the problem here? Turning Revenant pretty much into the least Revenant possible, by playing core you'd notice, regardless. > > The Facet of Light activation should at least be of a noticeable 3/4 like Empowering Misery so that people can't just be like "UH OH I'M LOW PANIC SWAP TO HERALD FOR HEAL", there should be commitment to the act of having your heal up for the endure pain that it is but better basically. > > Also there's a telling towards that heal itself with the Facet status, the counter play is there, the application and commitment isn't yet. Those changes are personally not of my issue because I've always played with Facets like they are meant to be and I think it's time Anet enforces that. I have more to speak about on that behalf but it's definitely true and serious that activation of the Facet should take longer for a healthier gameplay. One thing they could do for Infuse Light is put a delay on when you can activate it after popping the facet. So for example, you activate the facet and there's a 2 second window that IL isn't usable so instant panic double tapping isn't possible, which would also be much more signal to the opponent that IL is coming. Just a thought because I don't think putting an actual cast time on IL would be a good thing without significant increases to the base heal itself, and despite everyone saying all the AoE in the game feeds IL anyway, there isn't anything that can be done about that on IL side.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"McPero.3287" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"McPero.3287" said: > > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > > > @"McPero.3287" said: > > > > > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > > > > Seeing a dev on a certain class. Reasoning that this might be the reason one specific build of that class overperforms (which it doesn't btw.). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah DH in ratings where majority of people play isn't overperforming at all, good one. DH is just stupid design and needs to be changed or if that is not possible currently, nerfed. It is very unfun to play against and bad for new/learning players. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol un fun to play against, I love reading players writing this. Thief is also unfun to play against, mirage,a power splbr when it could actually do damage, holo, necro and its spec, revs(especially condi), renegade, druid and so on so on, the games gotten to a point thru bad balancing that not only are most classes unfun to fight but thier unfun to play as well. Players helped anet get it to this point as well with their incessant constant biased crys. > > > > > > > > > > In PoF release game wasn't fun yes because of insane power creep but right now Warrior (damage one), Holo, Necro, Mirage, Thief (apart from Deadeye) are all fairly balanced and fun to play against. The most toxic rev build is shiro builds not condi, condi rev actually dies now and plays damage traits in corruption instead of full resistance spam, but I guess here comes low elo mentality that anything that is condi is not skillful even though it has more counter play than power builds. You know rev is overtuned when bad players do well on it which seems to be the case at the moment. Saying balancing has been bad is also just wrong game has been getting progressively better after PoF launch disaster and CMC has more braincells than to listen to unreasonable mains crying on forums why their class is weak and how other class is OP. > > > > > > > > Power warrior is fun to play against for all the wrong reasons and unfun to play for the same reasons. Power Warrior has been kitten so hard of course their fun to fight in a way, u get cc'd who cares u took 0 damage even though u made a mistake and didn't avoid a easy tell and predictable skill and u have forever to stunbreak before the second hit of 100 blades goes off OR u simply avoid the warrior's eviscerate and warrior becomes a easy target. Ever since the feb patch warrior has become a melee class that is of little threat in most situations and a bubble bot in wvw. Fun.... > > > > > > Strength spellbreaker mains were spoiled because their class was so easy to do well on. Everything did damage great sustain, perma 25 might for more damage, great defensive capability. Now Warrior actually takes great skill to play. You don't have insane damage from might and sustain from signet and you cant just chain cc kill because cc doesn't do damage. Strength Warrior is not bad atm, if you feel like its bad its probably you. > > > > I can't help but lol at this horrible take from someone that couldn't handle the most telegraphed class in the game. Warriors damage was absolutely gutted and still has the requirements of always outplaying your opponent to even hope to build any momentum, let alone actually close a kill, and you think it's alright? Warrior has no way of actually doing anything to someone with even average reaction timing to its super obvious burst setups and is relegated to only punishing the most obvious of mistakes that you're not even guaranteed to be presented with. Take a competent player on any class vs warrior and you're going to have an extremely rough time finding openings to actually start your offense when you're at the mercy of their mistakes, not the warriors actual skill. You still have to chain CC people to kill them because you won't land anything otherwise, what are you on about? If you're struggling vs strength spb, then it's probably you. > > warrior had to outplay ONLY the builds that were equally broken as warrior was, if you even thought of trying something without protection or toughness warrior just ran you the kitten down > ( I used to kitten around with wizard cmirage pre feb ) > and my oh my its not about being telegraphed its about everything dealing damage, legit been hit for 5200 by a dodge or 11k from gs3 ( 8s cd evade skill btw ) > add in constant passive healing, rampage, and access to quickness and it kitten on anything that was as busted as it was. I'm not talking about pre Feb, I'm talking currently.

> @"McPero.3287" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"McPero.3287" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > @"McPero.3287" said: > > > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > > Seeing a dev on a certain class. Reasoning that this might be the reason one specific build of that class overperforms (which it doesn't btw.). > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh dear... > > > > > > > > > > Yeah DH in ratings where majority of people play isn't overperforming at all, good one. DH is just stupid design and needs to be changed or if that is not possible currently, nerfed. It is very unfun to play against and bad for new/learning players. > > > > > > > > Lol un fun to play against, I love reading players writing this. Thief is also unfun to play against, mirage,a power splbr when it could actually do damage, holo, necro and its spec, revs(especially condi), renegade, druid and so on so on, the games gotten to a point thru bad balancing that not only are most classes unfun to fight but thier unfun to play as well. Players helped anet get it to this point as well with their incessant constant biased crys. > > > > > > In PoF release game wasn't fun yes because of insane power creep but right now Warrior (damage one), Holo, Necro, Mirage, Thief (apart from Deadeye) are all fairly balanced and fun to play against. The most toxic rev build is shiro builds not condi, condi rev actually dies now and plays damage traits in corruption instead of full resistance spam, but I guess here comes low elo mentality that anything that is condi is not skillful even though it has more counter play than power builds. You know rev is overtuned when bad players do well on it which seems to be the case at the moment. Saying balancing has been bad is also just wrong game has been getting progressively better after PoF launch disaster and CMC has more braincells than to listen to unreasonable mains crying on forums why their class is weak and how other class is OP. > > > > Power warrior is fun to play against for all the wrong reasons and unfun to play for the same reasons. Power Warrior has been kitten so hard of course their fun to fight in a way, u get cc'd who cares u took 0 damage even though u made a mistake and didn't avoid a easy tell and predictable skill and u have forever to stunbreak before the second hit of 100 blades goes off OR u simply avoid the warrior's eviscerate and warrior becomes a easy target. Ever since the feb patch warrior has become a melee class that is of little threat in most situations and a bubble bot in wvw. Fun.... > > Strength spellbreaker mains were spoiled because their class was so easy to do well on. Everything did damage great sustain, perma 25 might for more damage, great defensive capability. Now Warrior actually takes great skill to play. You don't have insane damage from might and sustain from signet and you cant just chain cc kill because cc doesn't do damage. Strength Warrior is not bad atm, if you feel like its bad its probably you. I can't help but lol at this horrible take from someone that couldn't handle the most telegraphed class in the game. Warriors damage was absolutely gutted and still has the requirements of always outplaying your opponent to even hope to build any momentum, let alone actually close a kill, and you think it's alright? Warrior has no way of actually doing anything to someone with even average reaction timing to its super obvious burst setups and is relegated to only punishing the most obvious of mistakes that you're not even guaranteed to be presented with. Take a competent player on any class vs warrior and you're going to have an extremely rough time finding openings to actually start your offense when you're at the mercy of their mistakes, not the warriors actual skill. You still have to chain CC people to kill them because you won't land anything otherwise, what are you on about? If you're struggling vs strength spb, then it's probably you.