Azure The Heartless.3261

> @"Bear.9568" said:

> Back from my trip.....

>

> "DE shouldn't be able to stealth"

> "Condi Mirage is too op for me"

> "I'm getting rekt by core guards, DO SOMETHING"

> "Necros spamming BLEH everywhere"

> "Buff Ele, i want massive heals and dmg"

> "kitten is revenant"

> "Warrior stunned me and got his whole combo off, nerf pls"

> "Boonbest always 2v1 and LB annoying AF"

> "Holo much too much too much CC"

Let's face it, Everyone here is trapped in the hellspace between being too stubborn to play the easy builds and upset enough to just plain leave.

Either that or they're here to laugh at the people that think PvP has a state where every class is fair.

> @"DaShi.1368" said:

> I don't want to change my class or build.

*Silently files nails*

> @"Sampson.2403" said:

> *polishes his nails*

*Looks at OPs AV icon*

*Files nails silently*

That's a wonderful idea, having to slot things to gain access to mechanics. We should implement it for everyone.

I don't trash talk people, I have better uses of my time.

I will /laugh @ you if you say some rude kitten in map / team chat then go down though.

Spectral wall can only fear any one person once every 1.xish seconds. Once you touch it, immediately stunbreak and you can run right in.

Not to mention reaper got its survivability gutted hard with the changes to spectral mastery. This isnt really an issue atm.

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > *Puts newspaper down for patch notes*

> >

> > So the main issue of condition oriented mirage builds melting things they run into was not addressed, but instead power oriented mesmer builds were gutted and portal was nerfed so mirages are even less mobile and thus prone to lean into the duelist build even more?

> >

> > And, to balance this, everything that could stall them out as duelists have been also nerfed?

> >

> > *Chuckles, pulls newspaper back up, sighing* _okayyy~_

>

> The only builds getting melted by condi mirage are the three main necro builds, revs, and sick em yolo soulbeast builds and gs mesmers or garbage nonmeta specs. Core guard, firebrand, holosmith, boonbeast, spell breaker, thief and even sd weavers have the cleanses to put up a decent fight with odds varying across the board or at least stall out indefinitely.

Realized this and adjusted my wording, but you grabbed my original post.

Still not very confident in the patch. And they hit portal to boot.

[Puts newspaper down for patch notes]

So the main issue of condition oriented mirage builds melting things they run into was not addressed, but instead power oriented mesmer builds were gently tapped down and portal was nerfed so mirages are even less mobile and thus prone to lean into the condi duelist build even more?

And, to balance this, a hefty chunk of things that could stall them out as duelists, namely boonbeast, spellbreaker and some necro builds have been nerfed?

[Chuckles, pulls newspaper back up, sighing]

_okayyy~_

Healing signet is played because mending and To The Limit get interrupted, defiant stance requires people to hit you for heals, and nobody runs persistent poison builds.

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> I really should went through this wall ...again ? I could but I'm sick and feel bad for it

> >Asking players to monitor the mirage's options from stealth etc.etc.etc

> Asking players to play the game ... How dare you?!

Obviously I was mistaken in thinking I could reason with you about this. <3

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> whatever i guess there's no hope that this class will ever get addressed?

*_rips off sunglasses_*

It's been _addressed_ since revenant dropped!

Are you really freaking out over glint shiro power heralds?

> @"kin korn karn.9023" said:

> relatively high **sustain** (**at least in short bursts**)

I don't know if that sounds reasonable to you, but to me it sounds like "I'm upset I burst damaged infuse light."

You cannot sustain in short bursts. Sustain is not synonymous with "healing that depends on incoming damage for 6 seconds every minute."

Sword 4 might need shaving for what it can do. On the whole though, it's far from "borderline exploiting." If you're mad because a revenant got all his health back by swapping into glint and flipping light facet in time with your burst, you got outplayed.

EDIT:

Op is a Mirage main, balance cluelessness checks out.

I am as impressed with the beetle races as I am disappointed with the state of PVP.

It's bittersweet, but a good idea is a good idea. If they want to do giveaways I'd rather it be given to some speedy beetle racer than whoever's stacking in pvp at the moment.

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> Complains about dodge in cc is like ... other classes dont have mirage elite spec feature , pls fix

This isn't what I'm saying either.

What I'm saying is that, on a class that is already difficult to burst by nature of their class, they are also allowed to avoid bursts too easily in the event that they get tagged by a stun. Landing a stun or hard cc on a Mirage should at the very least mean they _have_ to burn a utility skill to remove it or avoid follow ups, so that when they consider builds, skills in the event they are cced take up space on their skill bar.

It seems like this was even the intended functionality of the class, as Anet included a grandmaster trait that GIVES them the ability to break hard cc on dodge at the cost of endurance regen. But nobody is considering the skill because...why would you need to if you can just dodge in place and effectively ignore the consequences of the stun anyway?

I'm not saying every class needs this functionality, nor am I saying that mirage needs to be nerfed to the ground. As it stands right now though, being able to avoid any bursts as long as you have endurance gives Mirages too much survivability for what they can do.

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> Other classes doesnt use their dodges for offence as mirage does while having gutted vigor. Be happy he burn 1-2 dodges to cover stuns and not being able to pressure you and forced to retreat.

My whole point is he should be considering burning utilities to cover stuns like everyone else. right now, the defensive tree is too large.

Vs any class that has a burst combo that relies on one or two key skills, right now the burst can be mitigated by dodge, distortion, blink or jaunt, Power break, Signet of Midnight, having blinding dissipation slotted, and probably a couple of other things, no matter how the mirage was outplayed. And given that vigor is not gutted as long as people refuse to take Elusive Mind (which, again, they don't need to take because they can dodge while disabled by nature of Mirage Cloak anyway), as long as a mirage has 50 endurance they are effectively immune to setups or any combo strings that rely on cc.

And that on top of a handful of their skills being able to dictate whether or not you have the correct target/any target at all is too much. This is one of the only classes in the game that requires you to manage your target locks, anticipation of attacks coming from stealth, untelegraphed disables and both movement and skill punishing condition stacks, with the difference between this and thief being that they don't even get punished for failing all of that (or, if you prefer, being outplayed), because as long as they have 50 endurance they cannot be set up for burst.

Either they need to be annoying and able to rack up damage, but fragile if you DO catch them, or attrition based but less dangerous. Right now they have both, and there's a predictable amount of people saying that's fine.

Asking players to monitor the mirage's options from stealth, the charges on power lock, the stacks of torment and confusion they put on you, their ability to force you to drop target or switch targets to one of their clones, whether or not their sword 2 is on cooldown, whether or not their distortion shatter is on cooldown, and keep tabs of the very small window of them having no dodges AND no breakstun utilities before you even BEGIN to consider bursting them isn't fair to the person on receiving end. While you're waiting for that tiny window of them having no resources, they're damaging you for free. Even thief has to respect stuns, and they have the lowest HP in the game.

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> ALSO since when mirage even more broken than before? After all those nerfs its way weaker than its used to be by a lot . Before mirage could play sword torch staff and now if you play it you dont do any pressure and cant 1x1 anything . May be you are right, all nerfs made mirage stronger... Can we do the same with other overperforming classes? Make them busted via nerfs! You made my day lad

They did not get stronger numbers wise, the nerf just made more people slot a stronger trait since EM is now so unappealing. Their presence as a whole in the PVP sphere is now worse because the nerf to EM did not fix the issue, it just made more mirages slot IH.

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > **(Wootofok u talking about here?)**

Mirages can, due to Mirage cloak, evade when stunned, even without taking Elusive Mind. Every other class in the game has to slot a utility skill to address stuns. Mirage does not. all it costs them is endurance.

I'm getting the feeling you don't understand the kind of advantage that affords, though.

> Cry more <3

> That will help xD

Obviously it won't, but showing people who try to justify pulling matchup wins on autopilot their own logic is therapeutic.

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> Also pretty sure Mirage is OP for same reason as other 'OP' specs.

"I'm aware that Mirage being busted is now even more obvious than it was before, because now people are forced to slot Infinite Horizon instead of EM (and still be able to dodge while stunned whenever they choose), but I'm going to immediately ignore that and just claim people are whining because of l2p issues."

Pick one or the other. Either you think its a L2P issue, or you're aware being able to dodge bursts after getting stunned, on a class that already has tricks to shift and drop targets without committing anything more than endurance is too much and yet you would rather it stay like that.

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> Actually all of you got what YOU deserve with your tears . IH mirage xD

"Lmao, these people we are steamrolling in pvp don't know _exactly why_ we are overpowered, so now we will be even more overpowered than before by just ignoring the trait that got nerfed."

This got to two pages.

XD

> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> Fan Favorite Fall Release

> **Fallout 76**

Oh hey look, I dont care about that awards ceremony anymore.

Just another tiny comment relating my appreciation for the racing events.

Leaning heavily into the beetle racetrack idea and adding tracks in old, long-traveled maps was a good business decision.

> @"Flumek.9043" said:

> No.

>

> But need to nerf damage, CC and healing by 30-50% next patch too. Doesnt matter if its 1shot FPS meta for a while, the game is trash anyway.

Found the scourge

EDIT: Holy kitten I was right lmao

> @"Sampson.2403" said:

> Tagging 6 seconds of exhaustion on a grandmaster trait is considered a felony where i come from.

>

> Knock it down to 4 seconds and we can all walk away from this like it never even happened.

You sound like a shady negotiating mobster and it's 10/10

> @"Aktium.9506" said:

> as a necro when i'm not playing reaper i've honestly been thinking of replacing spectral armor with corrosive poison cloud to answer dagger storm. losing the lf generation and the stunbreak is gonna suck, but not being able to get away from 8-10k unavoidable dmg sucks even harder. and those slippery little kitten always use it on the necro at the worst possible times. i mean, it's not a problem on reaper since you can just have spectral walk, wurm and speed runes and be the fastlord. but fatass scurgs waggling along just can't deal when some lad comes along and starts asserting dominance with the spinning t-pose of death.

I am half torn between feeling bad and going "HA!" because scourges usually answer everything up close.

I play:

Condi Mallyx/Glint Herald with Speed Runes

Power Zerker without Endure or Defy Pain and Mending as my heal

Dagger/Pistol glass Deadeye

GS / Staff Power Reaper

A Core Ranger using GS and LB with two Wyverns called Sugar and Spice

And I'm working on a Chronomancer, a STAFF condi kite guardian, a Kit scrapper, and a Fresh Air Weaver. I don't know those well enough to reliably win matches yet.

All my builds are stupid right now, but the disbelief factor in getting steamrolled by one is more fun than anything ranked has for me atm. If I decide to do anything in ranked its spellbreaker spellbreaker spellbreaker though.

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> If you do the math, Speed runes still don't give you enough speed to escape from Dagger Storm. If you take the base combat speed of 210 and reduce it by 50% (cripple) you get 105, if you increase that by 99% (speed runes) you get a speed of 209 which is less than the base speed of 210. Thus even with speed runes I'm still slower than the spinning thief who gets a 100% movespeed bonus while using Dagger Storm.

>

> Which gets me to the general issue with speed runes. While raw movement speed is certainly advantageous it's not the necromantic grail that it's made out to be. You see even without equipping speed runes a reaper can get close to *most* builds in raw horizontal speed with just RS2 spam + swiftness. Add in the fact that terrain usually prevents most classes from using their horizontal mobility to it's fullest and you'll begin to realize that raw movement speed isn't Reaper or Scourge's problem. It's soft control effects specifically cripple/immobilize/chill. Most meta builds outside of Guardian have abundant amounts of soft control effects. I can't catch a Soulbeast not because I'm too slow, but because the SoulBeast has too much immobilize and cripple. I can't escape a dagger storm because too much cripple. Now you might argue that the extra speed from speed runes decreases the effectiveness of cripple and chill, and you'd be right. But at the same time I could also use that rune slot to invest in some condi removal and get even better results. Say for example a YSIM build with Shout runes where I can just use suffer or YSIM to clear the cripple/immob/chill when it gets applied.

>

>

> Now back to Dagger Storm. You are correct in saying that I could use a dodge into RS2 to negate the damage. But you also must consider how that effects the outcome of the fight. If I use RS2 to negate Dagger Storm then I may not have it to counter the thief's inevitable teleport disengage. Using a dodge is likewise problematic because there are other things that are extremely important for me to dodge. It's not that I can't counter Dagger Storm, it's that I can't counter Dagger Storm without compromising my ability to win the rest of the fight. Necro is a class that defends itself by debuffing and controlling it's opponent. Necro can't do either of those things against attacks that are covered by evade frames. Abilities must be considered within the full context of the builds they are used on and the matchups those builds will go against. Simply being able to trade against a thief required pushing necro's toolkit to the limit, and even then you had to content yourself with merely forcing the thief to abdicate the fight. With the new Dagger Storm simply forcing a disengage out of the thief is difficult.

>

>

> Additionally I'm not sure why thief even needs this. Dagger Storm has essentially become Elixir S for thieves, and the class really didn't need that. Thief already had plenty of tools for escaping or negating damage, why does the class need more? Dagger Storm gives the thief 4s of initiative and cooldown recovery while still allowing the thief to maintain pressure on his opponent. Previously a thief had to give up his ability to pressure if he wanted to recover. Dagger Storm essentially removes a vulnerability from thief and just enforces the meta of "the only way to kill a thief is to instagib them before they react" which ArenaNet supposedly doesn't like in spite of their obsession with adding evade frames to random skills.

>

Yknow what, that's fair in hindsight. While I am of the opinion that the evade frames/reflect frames provide a good counter weight/mitigation to being snagged by magebane or revealed by Sic-em without having to resort to shadow meld or being blown up, I can the issue with cripple -on top of- having the damage.

The evades are nice. The damage tick on being in physical contact with the thief is nice. Could probably do with less or no cripple being thrown around. They already get a 100% MSI on using it. being able to reflect any projectiles being hurled at them while they retreat is enough. Maybe leave the bleed for condi jamming, idk.

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > > I think it's acceptable for a small baseline DPS of un-evadable hits to exist for less mobile classes like Guard/Engi/Necro, even a positive balance check for Thief/Mes.

> >

> > Agreed on this point, give or take engie because I wouldn't call that exactly low mobility.

> > Guard. Necro, Condi Rev maybe.

> >

> >

>

> Incendiary Powder is Condi Engi though.

oh god rip

Not really. I took defy and endure pain off of my war and was able to function pretty well.

**Take that with a grain of salt though. **The existence of passive lifesavers affects people building glass builds by dissuading them from just funneling everything into instakills.

If their build gets invalidated in the 2-3 seconds of passive immunity someone they planned to gank gets, most likely they will consider something more balanced in an effort to prevent (immediately die if your opponent slotted this trait.)

With those passives gone, the threat of them maybe being slotted is gone, and we will probably see a resurgence of instagib builds, particularly thief builds.

Passive lifesavers have their place in the meta. They may be obnoxious, but so are instant death builds.

Should you learn to dodge? Yes.

Should you be forced to play with no passives? I'd say yes, but we both know the community is going to lean hard into instant kill builds the moment there's no stopgaps.

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> Weird on how peep's complained on EM for making Mirage evade bursty CC one shot's. But when it comes to there own class it's like -Oh no..we be so vulnerable to be one shoted ourselves. We can't have that! Do what mirage did, L2dodge...

Adorably cheeky how you imply that Mirages have to learn to dodge. Not new material, but cheeky nonetheless.