Azure The Heartless.3261

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> Would be pretty awesome to be able to work towards fractal rewards/currencies while grinding some pvp reward tracks "doesn't need to be as rewarding as T4 dailies!" just would be nice for some of us older players that truly have no use for the other reward tracks. This would probably actually bring more traffic into spvp as well, which is something that the game mode REALLY needs like right now.

I do want fractal rewards, but at the same time I kind of want to actually have to go do fractals to get them. Fractals are a different beast than just straight dungeon currencies or thematic bags. Let PvE retain -some- allure.

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > Okay, but also get rid of every other passive.

> >

> > Alternatively, give warriors more active defenses to use in exchange for a HS nerf.

> > Or, suggest/design a new core heal that isn't reliant on taking damage. Or make the ones that aren't reliant reasonable to use.

>

>

> OMG

> Warrior have shield and Attack with evade on GS and some good mobility and you want more active defenses (both core warrior weapons) aside from trait and utility that make you immune to damage

> what is wrong with [To the Limit](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22To_the_Limit!%22 "To the Limit") and [Mending](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending "Mending") or even [Natural Healing](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending "Natural Healing")

> you want more an elite who consider in the top 3 duelist need more !!!!! (unless SB is in the top 3 duelist because of this childish passive healing then all i can say that is true competitive play)

>

> > I don't mind pressing the heal button on my war every 15-20 seconds if it means everyone else has a harder time dealing with my telegraphed attacks.

> >

> i see you don't mind pressing the heal button but i know almost none do it

> and by "telegraphed attacks" you mean the PERMA FC animation yea i can see that from 2000 radius

There's nothing wrong with To The Limit or Mending. Blood Reckoning could use a substantial buff though.

Spellbreaker is not overperforming to the point that it requires a core nerf. You're asking for a reduction to warrior core traits because you can't deal with spellbreaker. That breaks both base warrior and berserker.

If you want to nerf spellbreaker (again), focus on the traits, weapons, and synergies exclusive to it. If you're going to nerf the core, then you need to replace it with something to maintain combat effectiveness off meta. Otherwise, you'll make alternatives useless and force -more- people into spellbreaker. Then youll have multiple spellbreakers running To The Limit and they'll simply get -more- effective at pushing mid, because shouts will buff allies.

Tl;DR HS isnt carrying Spellbreakers and is used in other spec builds.

Pressing 6 is not a skill.

If you think nerfing core will make spellbreakers squishier because for some reason war players generally don't have the intellectual capacity to remember to press 6, you'll be unpleasantly surprised.

If you're going to nerf a core skill, you need to buff other defensive core skills so you don't punish warriors that aren't stacking on spellbreaker. CD reduction on shield block would be a start. I'd also take a channel time reduction on shield bash.

Okay, but also get rid of every other passive.

Alternatively, give warriors more active defenses to use in exchange for a HS nerf.

Or, suggest/design a new core heal that isn't reliant on taking damage. Or make the ones that aren't reliant reasonable to use.

I don't mind pressing the heal button on my war every 15-20 seconds if it means everyone else has a harder time dealing with my telegraphed attacks.

It's still Ele.

Sometimes the useless classes change but as it stands right now it seems that wasnt the case.

Maybe Tempest is amazing now though still need to tinker with it. No class got an outright nerf though, so status quo as usual, give or take non scourge necro moving up a peg or two.

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> It still makes all their skills unblockable.

> Compare mirage aoe to reapers, lets see which one downs 3 targets faster. Exactly, reapers aoe is far more deadly than mirages.

> I dont care if people (necro mains basically lul) dont take me seriously, my point still stands

I don't understand why you're comparing mirages to reapers and expecting people to just consider the vehicle of their damage and not their class mechanics/traits across the board.

You're ignoring the fact that reaper is a walking damage magnet with no escapes, ports, evades or blinks unless they specifically take flesh wurm (And using it that way is wasteful to boot. why would you take flesh wurm unless you're trying to get back to a point fast?)

People call target on necro for a reason. if you let a necro get into full shroud without wiping it on first game clash you deserve the carnage.

NCSY has a cast and can be interrupted. If it goes off, all the opponent needs to do is kite you for four seconds, give 1 for every other person with a vuln stack on them from it, to invalidate the point of that shout. People hesitate to slot it for that reason. NCSY is for cleaving boon tanks/guardians that don't pay attention.

Reaper's fine. kite them or burn them.

> @"Coolguy.8702" said:

> Just about all of reapers skills are aoe and unblockable

Annnnd credibility hit 0.

It's p. unforgiving to new players, but that is largely due to players fed up with having to deal with what they consider cheese and players who make use of cheese to insulate their egos, imo.

The only thing you can do is salvage the fleeting number of people that can perform a rotation without swelled heads and organize them into groups to do things. Now that ranked doesnt provide exclusive rewards, premades can go to ATs for prestige and unranked for their pvp fix. balance is a coin flip for every class every time it rolls around so far,

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> I always see people say how great the community is but personally, to me is just so-so? I always think people oversell or overhype it.

>

> Gw2 is not a puny game with puny population so I always thought it is natural to have "many" helpful people and logically speaking, the proportion (in percentage) of helpful people isn't that much different from any other games.

>

> What is your thoughts?

its fine outside of PvP. In PVP we're condensed misery and salt.

You can still kite them.

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"crazyhusky.2985" said:

> > With Thief its odd, I would agree base Thief and Daredevil need a bit Hp increase but NOT Deadeye, that can stay with low HP, it's too strong, hard to hit and has the longest ranged weapon in the game.

>

> Well, not exactly. Ranger Longbow has the longest ranged attacks in the game. On flat ground it goes a little *further than 1800 range* (even though the tooltip says 1500). On higher ground, Ranger LB can reach upwards of 2500 range (still not addressed or commented on by ANET). DE has to be kneeling, so rooted in place, and the furthest it goes regardless of ground level is 1500 (the tooltip says 1500). If not kneeling, the furthest it will hit is 1200, and often even less than that as it does *not* get the "enemy moving range-buffer" that every other attack in the game (besides other rifles) gets...

>

Lmao

And my throw axe on war gets obstructed by slight terrain changes

Outstanding

I like the adrenaline rush.

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> Im curious cus it hasn't been changed or nerfed for a long while now and mirage is one of the main reasons why path of fire is garbage and why i barely even bother with this game

>

> i mean, seriously what the actual hell? how is this class fine in your eyes?

>

> you can't get caught cus you have stunbreak on dodge, you can cast skills while in iframe and it even removes condition for good measure. How the hell do you kill a mirage that isnt a complete newb considering he can just use his dodge and get out of anything and it has no cooldown ? On top of that they have all the other mesmer skills like distortion or stealth and they also have axe 3 which is so ridiculously overpowered like yeah mesmer basically has a 30 sec+ utility skill (that requires a slot) that's 10 times worse than axe 3 cus it does the same thing except it has no damage and it has 3 times longer cooldown - how does that even make any sense whatsoever ?

>

> on top of that mirage is by far the highest mesmer dps spec and both condi and normal damage do so much while being virtually unkillable in 1v1 and the only way they die even in 1v5 is if they're greedy and they don't disengage.

By now it is obvious that core classes can suffer for the cheese their elite specs exploit.

Not saying I agree with balancing from the core instead of the top (The elite specs) but this in particular is most likely why.

Nerfing core pisses off a smaller playerbase than nerfing the elite itself.

Lmaoooo

**Patch Notes**

>Inceased Loading times by 550%

Jk its prob just a bug, check after hotfixes/ironing.

> @"Thedenofsin.7340" said:

> I like my cannons made of glass and my tanks shooting peas.

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> Same here. I'm tempted to get the harp because I like the idea of it, but I have no musical ability and I'm not sure I'd use it that much. But I already have two kites and a balloon and I'm not sure I'd use any of the other toys more than a harp.

Give it a shot, I'd say. Musical ability is something you acquire, not possess in finite amount.

Agreed. Send my regards to all teams, including the PvP balance team. It's refreshing to see thoughtfulness packed into patch notes.

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > > > @"breno.5423" said:

> > > > > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > > > > I dont understand Rev. Where Herald buffs good?

> > > >

> > > > Kidding right?

> > >

> > > No, I'm a bad. Help me out

> >

> > boon duration reduced when not actively channeling glint.

> > Endurance regen on upkeep completely gone in exchange for a bit more health apparently.

> > Boon duration reduced again in exchange for a bit more damage per boon the revenant currently has

> > toughness on herald bottom traitline trait replaced by movement speed and relocated further up the tree

> > Elders force replaced by heal.

> >

> > There are some other working parts there that potentially could balance this out and make damage more consistent. If you were as boon-dura build though, this is kinda bad. Your build falls apart with this rework.

>

> Ty. Will Rev be a demon in PvP or bad?

Too early to tell. Good Revs were demons even when it was trash tier. This isnt substantial enough to cause a mass pickup of rev, so you might not see much of a change in difficulty vs them. Those players that can make use of the rework will be really good at +1s or mids though.

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > @"breno.5423" said:

> > > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > > I dont understand Rev. Where Herald buffs good?

> >

> > Kidding right?

>

> No, I'm a bad. Help me out

boon duration reduced when not actively channeling glint.

Endurance regen on upkeep completely gone in exchange for a bit more health apparently.

Boon duration reduced again in exchange for a bit more damage per boon the revenant currently has

toughness on herald bottom traitline trait replaced by movement speed and relocated further up the tree

Elders force replaced by heal.

There are some other working parts there that potentially could balance this out and make damage more consistent. If you were as boon-dura build though, this is kinda bad. Your build falls apart with this rework. I don't think its tier reduction bad, but it's definitely time to revisit the build board.

> @"Halikus.1406" said:

> Anet being anet....

> Let us rework the only working spec of revenant and make it even more dependent of it, what could go wrong. 4Head

Lmao this

Hmm, Herald seems to be working p. well. Let's arbitrarily change it.

> @"Pyraxy.1902" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> Let me cast my 9 to 20 second cooldowns to just hope hes stupid enough to be standing still.

> Do you know how much freedom stealth gives you?

Why would you cast your 9 to 20 second cooldowns on where you think he might be?

This isn't rocket science. Damaging AoEs like marks and traps go under your feet if the thief is backstab/shortbow. if the thief is ranged, pocket them and only use them when hes visible, or on the path he needs to take to continue firing at you if you move away. if he stealths and loses the point because hes busy waiting for you to burn cooldowns tuck yourself behind objects so he has to move into a specific position to continue firing at you, then be ready to attack there when he destealths.

you can also just bunker the point, lmao. if he's chain linking stealth he cannot cap. finish capping and sit behind a box/rock. If its 1v2, the thief is being useless to his team and you can both kill him once one of you finishes capping.

> @"Pyraxy.1902" said:

> This topic was about the mechanical flaw behind stealth builds so you're the one off topic get out my thread please POLICE.

> @"Pyraxy.1902" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Pyraxy.1902" said:

> > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > > These aren't the WvW forums. Food, armor rarity, trinkets, amulets and other factors all influence balance in that game mode. If that build is possible in spvp vs an armored opponent, then we can talk about adjustment.

> > >

> > > Believe me, it's a problem in both pvp and wvw.

> >

> > Prove 1 malice oneshot builds are a problem in sPvP specifically and I will listen to that.

>

> Okay

It's okay to lose arguments.

Stealth isn't busted either. If 1-shot from stealth builds don't exist in spvp, you can react to a thief engaging on you, even more so if they are deadeye.

Apart from that, they still take full damage in stealth, so just cleaving or standing in AoEs is often enough to stall them into resetting or into the open.

Go play a thief for a bit, learn what they tend to do when stealthed, and then when you're playing your main class you will have an easier time predicting what they will do to you, based on the weapons they have.

> @"Pyraxy.1902" said:

> Because hes still kneeling and forecasting and if I chase him he will dodge via trait and I have to guess if he recanted, or if hes still kneeling there, or if hes already halfway across the map.

No you don't, lol.

Go back to the point. He's either there or he's wasting his teams time. You only need to check the areas the thief can perch and cover the point until you cap it.

Again, this is assuming a thief will humor a 1vX. Any thief that humors a 1vX either knows he can take both of you or is an idiot.

This also has nothing to do with oneshot malice builds. This is seeming to me to be more venting at general thief annoyance.

Thief being annoying doesn't mean it is busted.

> @"Pyraxy.1902" said:

> You can recast shadowstep.

So?

Why would you chase a thief to a point where he can shadowstep back to your friend on the node and engage him without you being on his tail? Getting kited so far off the point that you or your teammate cant come help you when one of you gets pressured is bad strategy.

Again, this is assuming a thief will humor a 1vx without knowing he can bait one of you.

> @"Pyraxy.1902" said:

> Okay, malice is just an added benefit on a class that can stay at a safe distance while passively building up to their one shot while having access to stealth via dodge trait(nice balance btw), making it the perfect Xv1 + because no one wants go deal with the deadeye who is just safe jumping everywhere while we sit on a mode getting freecasted.

>

> Wvw is a similar issue only more excessive on movement.

I agree with you on stealth on dodge while holding rifle. that could have been handled better. However.

That sounds like a problem with your team if you have two+ people sitting on a node while a deadeye takes potshots at you, and neither of you is doing anything.

Malice has also been reworked. Death's Judgement now requires initiative skills to hit to build malice.

It's an empty argument to equate unwillingness to pressure a thief sitting at a distance with the thief itself being broken. if either one of you chases him the other person can cap the point and then come help (assuming a thief will 1vX at all. No good thief will put themselves in a situation where they are outnumbered.)

I don't care about WvW balance, or thieves being a problem in WvW. You can enter WvW untraited with fine armor and poor amulets and meet a thief armed to the teeth with damage buffs. I used to think diferently, but the playing field can become far too uneven for me to consider anything in that zone to be justification for balance.

> @"Pyraxy.1902" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > > @"Scar.1793" said:

> > > > > This sums up my thoughts.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > And I’ve played Rogue and every assassin/stealth classes in a lot of MMO. It’s just easy mode in GW2. If it was only stealth... but no. They need to have tons of teleports and way to disengage and engage from miles and doing 25k+ backstabs from the shadows. Bonus if you’re deadeye for perma stealth.

> > > >

> > > > This is 2015...

> > >

> > > Yes, funny it did not changed much since then, right?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > These aren't the WvW forums. Food, armor rarity, trinkets, amulets and other factors all influence balance in that game mode. If that build is possible in spvp vs an armored opponent, then we can talk about adjustment.

>

> Believe me, it's a problem in both pvp and wvw.

Prove 1 malice oneshot builds are a problem in sPvP specifically and I will listen to that. Crinn mentioned it before, but was not able to produce results that approached 15-16k on light armor classes without build impracticality.

I'm not for guaranteed oneshots without telegraph from stealth, but I am for heavy damage from stealth. if a thief has to mark you and you have at least 5 seconds to respond to the subsequent engage without being downed, I'd consider that playable.

WvW as a balance sphere, or as an example of how broken thief is doesn't fly as proof because anyone can just trot in with fine armor/poor defense and get slammed by someone in full ascended/on food buffs for big damage. In the prior video, that thief had what looks like max stacks of bloodlust. If he was mostly dps and had damage increasing food and damage increasing utilities running as well, in addition to scholar runes, getting instadowned is definitely a possibility. That's not a problem with the mechanics of thief, thats a problem with damage synergies. In SPvP there are restrictions to prevent it from getting to that point.

In WVW, solo roaming while not thief or mesmer is a bad idea.