Azure The Heartless.3261

> @"eksn.7264" said:

> This is literally 2s after engaging on a mender weaver:

> 

>

> Balanced damage my dudes :^).

*squints*

Mender Elementalist has 17k HP. If you ate two double taps and a steal warmth, you were down well before the DJ hit you.

Either that or the image is manipulated.

No Twist of fate? No final shielding? No barrier? no evade?

Tl;dr Dodge. There's a ton of people complain about being hit with big fat red numbers but not a lot of them actually responding to taking damage. Anything will look strong if you just sit there.

EDIT: Image def. manipulated. Steal Warmth doesn't do remotely that much.

And now, a Haiku.

>Engage enemy

>Retaliation killed me

>Boon rip is too hard

Hotfix 8/2/18: fixed a bug that was causing haiku to not have the proper 5-7-5 structure.

All my characters are female charr, one per profession.

On the pve side? most definitely. Community's nice for the most part, graphics are stunning, performance is good and mounts are useful and innovative.

And there's a crapton of things for me to do at any given moment.

On the pvp side?

_mmmmMMMmmmmMMm_

The problem is almost exclusively Elusive mind now for me, after fighting mesmers to see how they tick on a low level. If you get stunned because you did not dodge or evade, you need to burn a stunbreak.. Being able to channel while dodging is strong. Being able to ignore stuns in exchange for exhaustion when sigils and rune sets exist to give you endurance back on specific conditions is too strong. The core mechanic feels and looks nice; completing a channel because you dodged an interrupt is alright, but pairing it with stunbreak just makes people able to rotate without caring about what you're doing.

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> welcome to the club people put mesmer in. The punch is in the corner.

I feel bad for the core Mesmers specifically, and the Chornomancers are fine, but mirage is still busted. Elusive mind carries hard.

Save punch for me to have once dodges aren't free channels, free stunbreaks and free condi clears all at once.

/whine

> @"Highlie.7641" said:

> I didn't mention a high crit build at all? i just said it's a bad mechainc to have an unblockable high damage attack.. that is usable from stealth.

> It's a projectile that can not be reflected, can you honestly say that's good design?

Deadeye is -supposedly- geared at being a bunker buster. It's Arenanet's answer to thieves not being able to toe to toe with guardians, scourges, and the like. so yeah. In exchange or having to announce presence, mark your target, engage them and telegraph everything you do, an unblockable from stealth that can be dodged or evaded is fine.

It's even more fine if it doesn't kill you if it hits you in exchange for being set up really quickly. I don't use it on my thief, but I haven't had any trouble fighting thieves that were trying to set up to DJ me.

Not to mention this isn't new. Cursed bullet used to be unblockable, less visible AND corrupted boons on you. I think you're overreacting a bit. If you don't want your bunker busted, pocket a dodge for the inevitable DJ when you get marked and engaged. If they're Mal7 and they telegraph that theyr'e Mal7 with the boon stacking, prepare for the oneshot. If they don't boonstack, you can eat the DJ.

If you're glass, the same applies but you also likely can engage the thief more aggressively.

> @"Kako.1930" said:

> "Look at all the amazing people supporting this amazing opinion for such an amazing cause, while all those evil people support the evil opposing position for their own evil purposes. Clearly, only the good players voted for my opinion, but the poll was swayed by the evil players who are quite obviously of lower tier and whose opinions should not count for anything."

>

> Personally, I don't care either way what they do with the queue system at this point, but listening to the logic behind some of these posts is just making me cringe.

Agreed.

If you don't agree with something or believe the metrics should say something other than what they say, even when the metrics are presented with reasonable explanations, you make no positive impact by strawmanning.

> @"Highlie.7641" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Highlie.7641" said:

> > > Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.

> >

> > but DJ is a stealth attack and cannot be used if revealed.

> >

> > I don't use rifle, but that -is- how it works right? It's a flipover skill and reveals you when you use it, but you must be in stealth to begin with.

> >

> > If a thief three round bursts on you from stealth, he is revealed and cant set up for DJ immediately unless he burns his elite. and that takes a full second from Meld to DJ.

> >

> > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment

> >

> > is the description wrong or something?

>

> hasted meld, dude. your forgetting the haste on mark GM trait

That doesn't make sense for any deadeye that is running a ridiculous crit build.

Omitting Mal7 would make your base damage for Death's judgement around 1,218 without the power addition from QoBK, which is around the base damage one gets from a gravedigger. (Malice only adds 15% of base damage per stack, if my math is right.) You can live through a gravedigger if you aren't glass.

They'd also still have to mark you, which has a half second cast time, then quick meld and DJ take a quarter second each. That's still 1 and a half seconds to prepare to dodge, after you are aware of them, after they hit 5 malice, even if that -was- the build they used.

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> Things are alright as long as you play one of the braindead facetank classes with way too much dmg yourself. Everyone who wanna play a high risk build will be oneshotted by builds can facetak for days. Lucky i play power reaper so i am on the lucky facetank side passive proc everything without passive sustain to death very fast. But i don't lie to myself that i or anyone in this meta needs any skill to play. All casuals happy now?

>

> Its not a oneshot meta, its bruiser meta with way too much dmg.

Would not less damage be bunker meta, and more be true oneshot meta?

Not that balance is by any means perfect.

There's a handful of bunkery builds, but those builds are broken by boonrip or condi in most cases.

> @"Highlie.7641" said:

> Any decent thief is going to come out of stealth with 3 round burst, (which will bait your dodge) then use DJ, incase you don't know Dj has a cast time of 1/2 seconds without haste, (the thief will have haste due to traits) your dodge roll has an iframe of 3/4 of a second. learn timing and evades are not a defense.

but DJ is a stealth attack and cannot be used if revealed.

I don't use rifle, but that -is- how it works right? It's a flipover skill and reveals you when you use it, but you must be in stealth to begin with.

If a thief three round bursts on you from stealth, he is revealed and cant set up for DJ immediately unless he burns his elite. and that takes a full second from Meld to DJ.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Judgment

is the description wrong or something?

> @"Regon Phoenix.8215" said:

>when you only need to push a button to kill somebody, like in thee case of deadeye: mark -> dodge/stealth -> spam DJ, because it is spammable -> enemy runs ou of >dodges = win.

Just wanna chime in and say deaths judgement has a sound cue and telegraph and cannot be spammed, because it reveals you on skill cast for three seconds.

"**Reveal yourself** and fire a powerful shot at your foe. If this attack hits your mark, it consumes all malice and deals increased damage for each malice consumed."

You have 3 seconds to make the thief think about healing or burn his dodges so he doesnt get dodge on stealth for another setup after you hear the DJ sound cue, unless that thief has shadow meld , at which point you know he is going probably try to DJ again and should be ready with any evade.

alternatively, if you are a class that can apply revealed, revealing him after a shadow meld disables DJ.

I haven't been literally oneshot in a while. I've been crit or a metric kitten-ton, but only on large windups or on glass builds. as far as the current power balance, things are alright.

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

>however, it’s better to get used to using something else because the proposed nerf to EM by getting exhaustion will make the trait useless. They could get rid of the stun break on dodge and replace it with something else or put it on a cd but nah. Nuke it from orbit.

I love this because the proposed fix here would have balanced it and exhaustion did almost nothing.

Also dat necro

Bunker.

Oneshot power you could at least dodge.

Bunker you had to dedicate multiple people just to force someone off point. I'd take short but adrenaline packed over long but boring any day.

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> >

> > > Given that there are only three skills listed on the death breakdown, the fight was very short and the thief did not have max malice. Also if you look at his combat log you can see that the thief opened with the 20k backstab. So the thief didn't have malice at all.

> > >

> > > I guess we can add this to the long list of thief 1-shot builds. Over the entire course of this games history, thief has had more 1-bang cheese builds than every other class put together.

> >

> > He was marked 7 times, then got backstabbed. He was thus in combat for at least 140 seconds, as per malicious intent, if the thief that hit him took malicious 7. It could have been five times if the thief specced zerker, scholar and then popped assassin right before the stab.

> >

> > This seems like a setup. There's no real way to get marked 7 times over the course of two minutes and then not either have hits on the thief or be expecting a backstab. OP was either not paying attention or allowed himself to be marked five to seven times with a D/D power thief in 1500 range.

> > If you're going to sit in combat vs a thief for 140 seconds and _not hit him _ , you deserve to die. Thief's weapon set used for power is often free.

> >

> > I'm pretty sure I know what traitlines he is using, as my deadeye runs something similar with similar dps output against squishies or demo-amulet builds, but deadeyes cannot _open_ on you for all your HP. You have to sit there and do _nothing for over two minutes, hear the "malice full" voice/sound cue, and then fail to frustrate backstab by strafing/about facing_ to get oneshot like that.

>

> I did some quick testing. You can do 17.9k (so basically 18k) with exactly one stack of malice. Higher numbers could be done if the mark steals boons for extra Sigil of Enhancement & Premeditation juice.

> https://imgur.com/a/8NhR7d5

> I did this running this setup. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAoa4YnsMBlPhFOBOOBUGjlxCzbAEAOA8hx2YccbDVW6QA-j5AXABAs/QDlBK+BAAA

>

> black powder > 3x heartseeker (for both stealth and max Lead Attacks stacks) > mark target > Assassin siggy > backstab.

>

> The guy in the OP was probably hit within 10 seconds of touching down in the arena. It's pretty common given that the FFA area is a haven for thieves and mesmers running all manner of gimmicky 1-shot builds.

>

>

> You could probably make a more conquest practical build with d/p + SB w/ marauders, and would likely be able to get 15k backstabs.

>

_*leans forward, squinting*_

Agreed tentatively; that is pretty cheesy. Of course you'd be insane to run zerker ammy in conq at close range, so I'm going to go look at this with marauders now.

Update:

Using Crinn's build, I was able to open on Heavies for 10k and Lights for 13-14k on one stack of malice. if you steal boons, you might be able to pull off 15k with the prep stated above.

https://gyazo.com/286afcff26ad55dfb12bef0e2aab7319

That's neat, but impractical in most cases. as you'd have no init for SB and would have to blinding immediately if you failed. You would probably never see this in conquest, as unless you are a glass light you'd be responding to a tapped-out thief upon the open. Not to mention theyd have to BP near you to get into position in time, so even if you didn't see them you'd likely hear the powder.

Agreed that it's kinda strong, but I don't think it's meta shaping. Unload and condi Sword rely on less and give you more in terms of practicality. At best you'd piss off heavies and also activate their passives at half HP. No idea how that affects eles.

Definite Arena Harpy build though.

Facestabs were 5-7k btw. So any strafer will live.

_I also had no idea we got stability and breakstun on blinding now yeee_

> @"eksn.7264" said:

> > @"Legacy.7360" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > As long as mesmer has a build that is considered meta it will always be too powerful for the PvP community

> >

> > Correction here, Mesmers have ALWAYS been meta since release day. Dev's favor this class - it's there baby along with the warrior class. Mesmers will always be viable no matter the season. Wish other class's had as much love.

>

> Obviously not true as people said, but I wouldn't say it was completely pushed out of the meta by thief. Mesmer used to be a high risk, high reward class with a very high skill ceiling. It always had one of the best burst potential in the game and good use of portal could carry games hard regardless. I still wouldn't say it's easy to use right now, just that it became very forgiving since HoT. So before if you didn't know how to use your skills, you didn't get a second chance. Now if you don't know how to use your skills, maybe you won't die, but you won't be very useful.

>

> I'm glad they're not gutting mirage, as much as I hate fighting them as much as everyone else. You can't just take away all their options. The last nerf was decent and doing some minor changes to Elusive Mind and Blinding Dissipation would probably put the class more in line with the rest. Those are the 2 factors imo that buy mesmer a crazy amount of time. I'm far from being a mesmer main though, maybe there's a better solution.

This states my opinion a bit more clearly. By no means do I think mesmer as a whole is broken, they just need to ensure mesmers have to follow the same stun rules as everyone else, or give up more for the freedom to ignore stuns, and then it would be fine. annoying, but fine.

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> As long as mesmer has a build that is considered meta it will always be too powerful for the PvP community

Mesmer has always had a build that was B Tier or higher for the PVP community. It has never been trash tier at any point since its debut. It has had some issues with comps but it has never been outright detrimental to your team to play as a class., unless you have no idea what you are doing.

That would be fine if at some point someone did not look at the drawing board and go "You know what mesmers need? an effective defiance bar." and had people agree with him/.her.

I'm fine with death's judgement being blockable as long as EM and scourge also get the nerf bat.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > you were hit by a Deadeye you were fighting with for a reasonable amount of time. He got max malice stacks and backstabbed you with either Assassin signet or binding shad.

>

> Either you have no idea what you talking about or thats me because last time they reworked DE ...they gain malice when they HIT or critically hit MARKED target (checked just in case description). First and only hit was backstab

Look at the Deadeye trait lines again.They have a trait that specifically gives them a malice stack when they mark you. It used to also give you malice when you healed, but that was removed in the recent balancing (wish mirage got balancing that aggressive.)

They can now mark you once every 25 seconds, 20 if traited.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Malicious_Intent

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> Given that there are only three skills listed on the death breakdown, the fight was very short and the thief did not have max malice. Also if you look at his combat log you can see that the thief opened with the 20k backstab. So the thief didn't have malice at all.

>

> I guess we can add this to the long list of thief 1-shot builds. Over the entire course of this games history, thief has had more 1-bang cheese builds than every other class put together.

He was marked 7 times, then got backstabbed. He was thus in combat for at least 140 seconds, as per malicious intent, if the thief that hit him took malicious 7. It could have been five times if the thief specced zerker, scholar and then popped assassin right before the stab.

This seems like a setup. There's no real way to get marked 7 times over the course of two minutes and then not either have hits on the thief or be expecting a backstab. OP was either not paying attention or allowed himself to be marked five to seven times with a D/D power thief in 1500 range.

If you're going to sit in combat vs a thief for 140 seconds and _not hit him _ , you deserve to die. Thief's weapon set used for power is often free.

I'm pretty sure I know what traitlines he is using, as my deadeye runs something similar with similar dps output against squishies or demo-amulet builds, but deadeyes cannot _open_ on you for all your HP. You have to sit there and do _nothing for over two minutes, hear the "malice full" voice/sound cue, and then fail to frustrate backstab by strafing/about facing_ to get oneshot like that.

It's like getting slept by Miguel in Tekken. If you let that hit you, you deserve it.

you were hit by a Deadeye you were fighting with for a reasonable amount of time. He got max malice stacks and backstabbed you with either Assassin signet or binding shad.

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> The game is beyond saving. Its time for GW3.

If they can't fix Gw2 due to lack of understanding of balance by skill devs, lack of manpower, apathy or some combination of the three, why in Dhuum's name do you think a new game would magically resolve those issues?

An rotten apple is still rotten even if you candy it. There's nothing wrong with the mechanics of the game, changes just come too infrequently and without apparent vetting or playtesting. Even if you start from scratch, that approach will rot any foundation you build on, no matter how pristine it starts out.

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> There's actually a third type of player, the player that knows how to avoid the single 20k hit with the knowledge that avoiding it is an auto win

That went over my head until now.

If it's a oneshot build why aren't you dodging the one shot?

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> You know what makes this REALLY OBVIOUS that this is a setup? **The fact that you allowed yourself to be shot by *three* consecutive TRB's and then a deaths judgement with no action on your part at all.** Not even ONE dodged or reflected shot with all that kitten on your bar? You might want to make it a little less obvious buddy

^

I dont know what to tell you guys. Thieves are required to announce their presence with marks and then successfully hit you 7 times with something other than an auto to even prepare the hard hitting DJ. The voice queues tip off when malice is full, and DJ has a telegraph and a sound cue.

If your log shows that you got nailed multiple times by all the hits of TRB, you're not paying attention. The thief likely marked you before this so you should have been prepared to dodge from the get go.

Not only that, but three round burst __requires the thief to be kneeling__ to even have access to the skill. So you have a stationary thief taking potshots at you from somewhere within 1500r, and you're not dodging any of it? not porting to the thief? not reflecting anything? There's a difference between a class that has a combat advantage vs an active player and a class that can quickly down a novice.

>@"People"

> But invisibility

Deal with the stealth. Thief still has the lowest health pool and is allergic to stuns once shadowstep is on CD. There's three other classes that have reasonable stealth access, range, -AND- can ignore stuns.

>@"Necros"

> Weh!

Sorry. Thieves hard counter you period. Gonna have to play reaper to have a shot and even then its an uphill battle, unless you're amazing at core. Wish they made your 3rd spec something more mobile and less toxic.

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> No he is not..& so is deadeye & jumping in out Condi SD thief. Neither are hilarious!

Aren't you a mesmer main?

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> I'm waiting for the rest of the anti stealth crowd to show up. Then it will be a party.

>

> popcorn?

[https://youtube.com/watch?v=xSU2XR5R5IY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSU2XR5R5IY "https://youtube.com/watch?v=xSU2XR5R5IY")

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > > @"Hiki.9310" said:

> > > > > @"rigour.8749" said:

> > > > > Not to mention if he fails that attack he is extremely vulnerable as he is also glass with minimal escape potential.

> > > >

> > > > The teleporting stealth class that can spam evades through weapon skills is vulnerable with minimal escape potential?

> > > >

> > >

> > > What Stealth? You mean from the Shadow Trap that is on cooldown? Oh yeah, I forgot, Thieves can equip 10 utilities (8 regular, 2 elite of course) and trait into all 6 traitlines at once. Its so OP that they can do that...

> >

> > No you just do what literally every thief does and have shortbow as your off weapon with blinding powder, signet, and shadow step for utilities. That's 2 stunbreaks, 2 teleports, a endurance refill, and stealth, all on the same package.

> >

> >

>

> Except the Thief in question was using Shadow Trap, Signet of *Shadows* (no endurance refill), and most likely Shadowstep as the third. Both Signet of Shadows and Shadow Trap were already used, as well as 2 Vaults which would be 100% of his initiative which means no Shortbow escape. Unless you mean he had 5 regular utilities equipped and 4 traitlines (to include Trickery)? In which my sarcasm from my previous post still stands...

This.

That's an actual oneshot build. if he misses hes free.

Make no mistake, thief is annoying, but it's a far cry from immortal.