Azure The Heartless.3261

> @"buzzle.9347" said:

>Because it's the type of behaviour that reflects badly upon the community.

Omegalul you havent seen anything yet.

Join a guild. Usually guilds ragdoll people ganking their guildmates for no particular reason for fun. Or I'd hope so.

Join a -fun- guild.

As I lack object permanence and cannot anticipate when a thief engaged with me will generally be, I too would like stealth to be broken upon taking damage.

That way, instead of bothering myself with anticipation and strafing, I can just put an AOE down where the thief was last and not have to bother with learning the mechanic or dealing with their stealth attacks.

How dare thieves be sneaky. Play a real class.

We absolutely must #RemoveStealth2k18

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > Absowhat...Is that...wvw?

> > > This things remove random boons (implying every build running both ;D) and look at thier CD and amount of boon flying around ...

> > > I cant estimate your efforts you put into that haiku :expressionless:

> >

> > I tried really hard for that haiku uwu

> >

> > Also do they?

> >

> > Notes

> > The order of boon removal is resistance, **aegis**, **retaliation**, swiftness, might, regeneration, quickness, fury and vigor.

> >

> > ^From the Sigil of Absorption page. Seems like exactly what you want.

> > There's a PVP version too.

>

> May be its absorption sigils work in that way . Really long time ago with some warrior I was testing in which order boons being removed , I was wondering if they removed in order they applied or each boons in exact order by priority. Each time it was removing random boon ... But it was so long time ago I dont even remember what I used as boon removal ... could be mesmer shatter... if you are on EU we can test ,why not?

> Also thief steal have priority on boon rip indeed .Aegis/stability always first iirc . Rest...probably not

I'm not EU unfortunately, but see if absorption can take retal of of a guard without stab, resistance or aegis with a cc. If so, you just have to worry about when to interrupt the guard to ensure they have a down period of no retal for you to burst them.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> Absowhat...Is that...wvw?

> This things remove random boons (implying every build running both ;D) and look at thier CD and amount of boon flying around ...

> I cant estimate your efforts you put into that haiku :expressionless:

I tried really hard for that haiku uwu

Also I don't think they're random.?

@"Sigil of Absorption Wiki"

>Notes

>The order of boon removal is resistance, **aegis**, **retaliation**, swiftness, might, regeneration, quickness, fury and vigor.

^From the Sigil of Absorption page. Seems like exactly what you want. I'm not sure if the other rip sigils prioritize boons but they most likely follow some pattern. I'll look into that.

But yeah, it doesn't matter if they stack boons, as long as they dont have resistance, aegis or sability your interrupt will take retal on a three second cd.

There's a PVP version too for this one . I use it on cc heavy builds/my thief sometimes.

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > And now, a Haiku.

> >

> > >Engaging enemy

> > >Retaliation killed me

> > >Boon rip is too hard

> This forum and people like you and that individual that suggest to use frenzy in same time with distortion (that claimed before that blocks protect from UNBLOCKABLE attacks ...). None of you are even thinking before post anything

> Engi ? Boon rip ? You implying everyone have boonrip .

> Whatever actually ,not worth anyone time

To be honest I tried really hard to make that last part 5 syllables, cut me some slack. <3

~~ also Revocaton, annulment, absorption sigils,~~

Let's ask the pvp-dedicated dev team.

> @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> All the thieves jumping the train to defend their profession and attack OP even when they’re not attacked only proves DE is actually broken and/or cheesy.

> FA ele should be buffed by actually making some fire skills better imo.

> It definetly got overnerded for not even being meta.

Couple things.

1.) Pretty sure it's closer to knee-jerk aggression from multiple months of being pushed out of pvp in most capacities by players who ~~lack object permanence~~ think thieves do too much of -anything- because of the nature of their class. Thief -just- got a rework to placate the people who were frustrated at DJ outta nowhere (even with the mark) and now there's knives pointing at them again.

2.) Yes, ele needs a buff. They're due. The infinite arc bug was annoying but didnt warrant a complete bricking of the class.

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> I don't think you'll ever get anyone to agree on a clear definition of who is and is not a whale or how much you have to spend to qualify because it's different for each person and includes a lot of factors which have nothing to do with the game.

>

> For example a friend of mine once assured me that £100 really isn't a lot of money to spend on a pair of jeans...but she earns almost 4 times what I do so she can afford to spend more on almost anything. Also she's a lot less likely to damage her jeans. On the other hand she thinks I'm utterly mad for spending £70 (or more!) to go and see a band perform live when I already have their CD and I can listed to their music whenever I like. I can't get her to understand that hearing the songs live is nothing like hearing a recording and there's so much more to a concert than simply hearing the music. It just doesn't interest her, so she doesn't get it, just like I don't get her willingness to spend so much on clothes.

>

> It's the same with items in games. Some people aren't interested in some/all of them so they don't think they're worth any amount of money and anything people do spend is therefore too much. Other people love them and would spend more than they actually cost if they had to. And some like some items and not others.

>

> Then we get into what I call 'mental gymnastics' (because you're twisting yourself around to make it happen). For example I bought the Ultimate Edition of both HoT and PoF because it worked out cheaper. How could spending more possibly be cheaper? Because I buy gems periodically anyway and I knew I could trust myself not to spend them on things I wouldn't normally buy just because they were there. So I basically bought 4,000 gems at full price and got the Deluxe editions of the expansions for just over the price of the Standard versions. So am I whale for buying the most expensive packs, or am I being cheap by spending less overall? Or both?

Pretty much this.

This conversation happens whenever something in the gem store surfaces that people want but find too expensive to acquire, but the truth of the matter is if they are sold at that price as a pattern, they are being bought reliably enough to not justify lowering it.

Keep in mind that:

*skins do not give competitive or in game advantages beyond prestige/eyecandy

*The people who pay for gems support the game and allow players who dont often by gems to acquire them with gold.

That's essentially a win win. you can get items through the gem store for free if you grind it enough.

> @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> I still think there should be some special title or infusion (maybe of floating gold coins or money signs) for those that have spent a certain amount of money on this game. That’d be an easy way to find the whales.

You'd make the players that support the game targets for people who think they are keeping the prices or mount skins high, and end up hurting everyone. people get harassed and Anet loses money from people who would like to just play in peace.

> @"SweetPotato.7456" said:

> PS: need to take away the ability to finish off a down player on all professions in invisible mode, same goes to engineer that goes mini mode / elixir mode

> because when you are down that is the chance you were given to fight to rally, having an opponent that you can rally off is really just does not make sense.

I wanna address the last part first. Invisible stomps are one of the only ways thieves -can- get stomps on people because oftentimes they are so squishy that they can be cleaved into downstate by anyone nearby aware of their presence. I understand the concept of rallying, but that nuance is in place to ensure thieves can kill players they down without being downed themselves by target autos or some errant passerby. Keep in mind a downed player on a node still counts as contesting it, and that if thieves have to struggle to auto players down out of range because downstate autos sap their health, they are both losing the point -and- inviting someone to come rally them.

It may look unfair up close, but across the board that's there for a reason. Have a mock battle on your thief and see how hard it is to finish people without a stealth stomp in a firefight.

> But I do come across quite a handful of these "thief" or "deadeye" who are 99% invisible, even when they are doing the finisher*, they are invisible, even after they step in your many necro marks they are invisible, you know they are there because they appear for a brief moment when the marks were triggered , but some how they get to "marked" you and went into invisibility again and then your dead.

Again, have a mock battle on your thief. you're probably witnessing shadow melds/silent scope play. since they are invisible, the only way to know what they are doing is to either spectate one in a pvp room or see what combinations of skills lead to that effect. They have rules they have to obey in stealth if they want to hit you with heavy moves. If you learn what each move looks like/sounds like, you can predict what the majority of them will do next.

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > Let's nerf Deadeye then complain when the bunker meta returns because the thieves don't lend their services to pvp anymore, instead of telling people to dodge or learn how malice works..

> >

> > (#)Whydidntyoudodge

> > (#)DamnyouPavlov

>

> What is a rev doing? What is core guard doing? What is mantra mirage doing? What is Soulbeast doing?

>

> Bunker meta ain't returning any time soon.

I understand that,

I'm just... concerned. There's people trying to cut damage back -because- they want to return to that meta, as you can see. We need to differentiated between

"busted because its clearly overpowered" vs "busted because I didnt dodge."

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > And if I wanted time to kill times of 1-3 seconds I would play a first person shooter

> >

> > You cannot has the bunker meta back.

>

> I will still complain about it at every opportunity as long as I play this game

>

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > And if I wanted time to kill times of 1-3 seconds I would play a first person shooter

> >

> > You cannot has the bunker meta back.

>

> I will still complain about it at every opportunity as long as I play this game

>

S o b e i t ):<

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > Carry **HARDER**

> >

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > That sounds very boring and I doubt I would ever do this. I cant even watch other people play for more than a minute without being bored

> >

> > Didn't you just say you liked bunker meta?

>

> I dont see how this is mutually exclusive

The defining factor of the bunker meta was boring on point rotations.

I find it ironic that you'd tolerate and even prefer the bunker meta and yet be immediately bored by the prospect of spectating for research, is what I'm getting at.

> @"Hot Boy.7138" said:

> I play mesmer so i have no trouble at all with Deadeyes, but I do wonder how other classes are able to deal with them. I imagine it is a frustrating experience because it's incredibly hard to lock down on them. They stealth and appear somewhere else any time you get close to them. I have the mobility and reflects to keep up. But without that, I would literally be a sitting duck to be farmed without a chance in hell of surviving. which is the issue other classes have. So I personally don't have issues with deadeyes, but I understand why other people are complaining about that spec. Even if you don't have issues, try to put yourself in the shoes of someone else and understand.

I certainly get it, but I don't think that frustration is worth a nerf to DJ. They make me cry on my necro because I play reaper, but if I happen to land a pull on them they often melt immediately.

My Rev can often port to them, so can my guard.

My war can reflect their setup damage,

My DE is backstab and thus their counter, I have the same range cap as them on my ranger.

My mesmer is a mesmer.

Engie has utility goggles/reveal spam, which disables DJ.

I don't know Ele yet, so idk about this mu.

Frustrating but Fallible is different from frustrating and infallible. There's ways around annoying snipers.

> @"Hyraltia.4185" said:

> If you are seriously trying to say current builds aren't carrying players you're kinda delusional or not in plat at the moment. There are so many people in play with next to no mechanical skill just following some meta build smashing buttons as they light up.

I never implied or made the argument that there are not current builds carrying players. Mirage is a thing.

> Please don't try to say builds carrying people is gone or any less than before, bunkers took proper timing on skills to prevent dying to any decent player, bad bunkers died instantly, good ones fought off 3 players and held caps vs bad players. Good bunker vs good bruiser the bruiser won 100%. The game has always been since day 1 a rps fight, bunkers beat squishies,, squishies beat bruisers and bruisers kill bunkers.

You'd rather someone be able to build so that, by nature of knowing their class, they are able to 3v1 other decent players in a capture the node game that is 5v5? Think carefully about that assertion for a moment.

> Edit to add one thing, the reason why it seems so bad atm is because the lines between those 3 basic archetypes are being blurred way too hard by passives and abilities that just simply do too much stuff.

I'm not convinced "Just dodge Deaths Judgement" is not the correct solution.

> @"Hyraltia.4185" said:

> Least you had to use skill to break a bunker build it was fun and interesting to fight. Current meta is like playing Cs, walking around a corner and getting hit in the skull by a guy full autoing, it's not fun to fight, it's not fun to play because fights boil down to rock paper scissors of who dodged first because if you did now he ccs you and boom 15k plus damage.

Were you here for the bunker meta? You couldn't break the meta builds 1v1 if they were reasonably skilled. The game devolved into who capped two points first, because once you sat on the point nobody could move you unless they dedicated half their team.

People were literally using "Just DT him" as excuses to justify the bunker builds at the outset of the bunker meta, like DTing doesnt require an investment that could easily allow the problem to just move to another node.

This isn't even a oneshot meta. People do heavy damage in the current sphere, but in most cases you have a chance to respond and analyze your opponent before you get bursted. Some of those builds have a _particular efficiency in -avoiding- damage_ still, but it certainly isn't [die from some guy autoing] overall.

We're going to need high dps classes to unsettle the nodebunkers and make them consider disengaging to keep PVP interesting. Being angry because you failed to pocket a dodge or LoS for a oneshot that takes rampup is going to do more harm than good in the long run.

> @"Hyraltia.4185" said:

> Better indication of skill than who face rolled their 1 shot half second cast time abilities at eachother faster like the current meta.

Explain.

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

>The hit was so hard it skipped my auto-elixir S

Not to detract from your statement but can I have this?

"Got hit so hard it skipped my passives" Is my new favorite thing.

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> il qualify No combination of stats should result in a one shot hit against an averagely armoured player ever, plenty other games do in fact do this for very good reason. Multiple high hits is potentially acceptable if its not susceptible to lag ofc, but 1 shot no.

But Death's Judgement requires multiple hits to become a oneshot, and often cannot oneshot bunkers unless they are sustained by protection and the thief rips it.

To hit oneshot damage a thief has to peg you seven times with attacks that use initiative (give or take mark malice) and then DJ you within 10 seconds of pegging you on the 7th time to make use of the damage boost from premeditation, which is announced with a voice cue directly to the marked target.

Also define averagely armored, because keep in mind the current Marauder Amulet was the original Berserker amulet.

> @"Warscythes.9307" said:

> There's a video with a Reaper that killed him without ever getting hit. Of course you can kite on necro, is just harder.

>

>

That's objectively hot.

I-I'm not flustered or anything I-I just like the look of that rotation.

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> The tell is obvious is irrelevant. ** There should be no attack in pvp that one shots ever,** that's the issue.

What you're asking is infeasible. There will always be a combination of traits, stats, and gear vs another combination of traits, stats and gear that will constitute a oneshot without significant overhaul, and right now we are still in the phases of balance ideas where dodging to break stun seems appropriate.

Furthermore.

If you have a series of telegraphs that lead up to a oneshot move including but not limited to, voice cues and visual icons, "The tell is obvious" is _very_ relevant because it allows you to avoid the damage.

Whether you were prepared or not, what your build was, what the opponent's build was, and whether you dodged or not are all relevant to the relative strength of a skill. A move doesn't automatically become labeled as busted because you ran glass and didn't dodge, for example.

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> And if I wanted time to kill times of 1-3 seconds I would play a first person shooter

You cannot has the bunker meta back.

Carry **HARDER**

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> That sounds very boring and I doubt I would ever do this. I cant even watch other people play for more than a minute without being bored

Didn't you just say you liked bunker meta?

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > Let's nerf Deadeye then complain when the bunker meta returns because the thieves don't lend their services to pvp anymore, instead of telling people to dodge or learn how malice works..

> >

> > (#)Whydidntyoudodge

> > (#)DamnyouPavlov

>

> Bunker meta was way more fun than the last few metas

I see you clearly now~

If you wanna press buttons and watch pretty things happen with no life drops, there's an indestructible target golem in the lobby.

> @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> dodge can be stealth for more than 3 seconds，It's the most disgusting design I've ever seen

Aren't you a mesmer main?

Beat Turrai Ossa with two dodges and no active blocks/evades/immunes on a light armor class, then we can talk about whether Necro downstate is too strong.

Necros are gonna -be- down. They cant kite. Vs. an enemy that requires you to kite, it's a bit much to watch them struggle just enough to expose the enemy and win through downstate, then think the downstate does too much damage.

If anything that's an effective strategy for specifically Ossa when fighting as Necro.

> @"nekretaal.6485" said:

> Scourges are already a liability in pvp, and core / Reaper always were.

This is incorrect though. Just calling that. Scourges right now are deadly vs any melee class, and Core had minionmancer. Reaper was amazing at launch, became garbage, and now is ok.

> @"Blackdagger.9670" said:

> Its just a way of matchmaking punishing you for your win streaks. thats how it goes, get used to it.

It is specifically this and nothing else.

Stop carrying your team.

What are you, some kind of anime protag?

Let's nerf Deadeye then complain when the bunker meta returns because the thieves don't lend their services to pvp anymore, instead of telling people to dodge or learn how malice works..

(#)Whydidntyoudodge

(#)DamnyouPavlov