Tails.9372

> @"artemis.6781" said:

> In the AMA, they were made exclusively for that map. However, they have been discussing allowing them on other maps. But no time table as of yet.

That alone is not going to change anything though. Nobody is going to farm spare parts just to use a gimmick. That's why nobody bothers with the Sunspear Paragon Support and the Cannon in a Box (well that and their ridiculously long cooldown).

Go P/P and switch to D/D later on, assuming no expansions:




Make sure to put one weapon per "weapon set" so you can "switch" weapons to gain 3 initiative every 9 seconds. Also prioritize trickery over critical strikes and critical strikes over deadly arts. You usually only need the 3d weapon skill to attack, the 4th one is to break the blue bars some enemies have below their HP bar. Usually you can just kite the enemy and ignore it but it's useful to stop certain attacks later on but that shouldn't be to relevant while you're still leveling up.

In terms of gear I would suggest assassin stats (precision > power = ferocity) simply because they are cheaper than berserker (power > precision = ferocity).

> What exactly do you guys want?

What do I want? A-Net to stop beating dead horses would be a good start.

> And after all this, you're still complaining?

But of course, the recent change to unload is probably the second most aggravating nerf P/P ever got. Even after the removal of the ricochet trait the build could still take on enemy camps in WvW no problem but this rn is just bulls**t. Not only that nobody asked for this nerf but this actually impacts the gameplay of this weapon set noticeably in a negative way.

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> Wouldn't it have been sweet if we were rewarded a permanent turret at the end? :) (With a cooldown level in usage time, of course.)

QFT also, their usage shouldn't require spare parts (and they shouldn't kill themselves either).

> @"Edgy McEdgelord.4790" said:

> You forgot that they can only be used in Kourna. Should at least be usable on every OW map, as another thread regarding this topic already stated way more eloquently than I could ever hope to reproduce.

Not only that, i don't see any harm in making them available for the entirety of the PvE content. The only places where their usage should be prohibited are the PvP based areas for obvious reasons.

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> my point is, the ini was nerfed but with now being able to utilize m7, you wont feel this nerf as much in most fights as a deadeye.

Only vs. other players, you seem to forget that these changes also affect WvW. The mobs blocking the camps don't have enough HP to trigger M7 but you have to beat up to 7 of them which makes the grind extremely tedious now.

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> what it does is it takes BQoBK from you and turns it more into constant pressure from sustained burst. but in return you get defensive m7 boons. and yes i do think this is overall better, because people youd kill in your initial hits still will die without quickness but with the defesive boons you might not drop instant to counterpressure.

But I'm not talking about BQoBK vs. M7 here, core / daredevil and burst oriented deadeye builds still have to suffer for no reason to prevent a build which already forfeits both mobility and burst for sustainability from being "to sustainable" which wouldn't even matter for reasons stated above.

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> imagine p/p with m7, the stealth on stolen skills and without a change to ini .. thats really nonstop spamm :)

And that would be a bad thing because? You're already getting most of these boons from Deadeye's Mark and a lack of access to stealth wasn't an issue to begin with, you're also giving up on the mobility daredevil provides so I would expect some improvements in other areas in return. Unload is basically just a glorified auto attack anyways which isn't even that strong compared to some of the other stuff and also limits your use of utility in addition to the lack of burst other classes get from using their "real" attacks, yet somehow "unload spam" is considered to be a "problem" while other more effective things with less counterplay which are just as "easy to execute" are considered to be a-okay.

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> as many thief mains refuse to play deadeye, deadeye keeps getting buffs

"deadeye" as a whole doesn't get buffs, mainly rifle does. But they still don't seem to understand why many people don't want to use rifle so they're just throwing out random buffs / nerfs in the hope to make rifle more attractive and the fact that they want to push you to play DE a certain way instead of offering build diversity is not helping either.

> @"Smiledyx.1678" said:

> Why this game do so many nerfs?

Nobody can say for sure given how questionable some of these changes are and of course the responsible devs don't explain themselves (which might be the smart thing to do for them since some of the stuff seemingly boils down to "it got nerfed bacause I don't like it" and you dont want to tell this to your playerbase for obvious reasons).

> @"KumaDXL.9124" said:

> now show me how u going nerf that crybabies

Believe me they will.

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > objectively 3-3-3 on a build that can refresh all its init still gives too much reward for the effort required to execute it.

> > It's not as easy as you want to make it out to be, mindless unload spam doesn't get you far. The risk / reward was fine considering how much counterplay there was.

>

> Not trying to make it sound easy. Thieves in general have to do a hell of a lot of work, but still mindless unload spam got people running it farther than it should have.

Saying that "X shouldn't come that far" is still pretty subjective and ultimately can be said about anything. The questions are: is it to strong from a class balance point of view? Is there a lack of conterplay? Does it prevent the better player from winning the match? The answer to these questions is no. Things shouldn't be nerfed simply because you don't like them, there are a lot of things I don't like to face of against but you're not going to see me calling for nerfs simply because I don't like how XY performs as long as there are reasonable ways to deal with it. But I guess we have to agree to disagree here.

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> objectively 3-3-3 on a build that can refresh all its init still gives too much reward for the effort required to execute it.

It's not as easy as you want to make it out to be, mindless unload spam doesn't get you far. The risk / reward was fine considering how much counterplay there was.

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"jihm.2315" said:

> > > nerfed or not they make too much damage

> > Yeah, if you're a glass cannon with no toughness that is in which case you're supposed to take a lot of damage from other glass cannons. Defensive oriented builds have no problem outtanking P/P thiefs. If anything P/P could use a damage buff.

>

> By this logic, if you are spec for defense then p/p should not do any damage to you. But it does.

Stuff like warriors with defensive investment have no problem face-tanking unload spamm, especially with the recent nerf it shouldn't be any problem for most classes to outstall their initiative.

> @"jihm.2315" said:

> nerfed or not they make too much damage

Yeah, if you're a glass cannon with no toughness that is in which case you're supposed to take a lot of damage from other glass cannons. Defensive oriented builds have no problem outtanking P/P thiefs. If anything P/P could use a damage buff.

Because it's a "glass cannon" and doesn't really have anything else going for it when it comes to taking down an enemy and even in terms of damage it's pretty underwhelming compared to other damage oriended builds.

> @"Specialka.7290" said:

> P/p deserved a nerf, that kind of gamepaly should not be rewarded.

That's just a slippery slope which can be used to justify nerfing anything, in fact if someone loses against P/P he deserves his loss thanks to how many counterplay there is. Saying that someone shouldn't get "rewarded" for outplaying inherent disadvantages just because the gameplay is "simple" doesn't even make any sense. If unload spam would give you easy wins against more skilled players the situation would be different but that's definitely not the case here. From a class balancing point of view there's no actual argument to justify this nerf and every support for it boils pretty much down to "me don't like this playstile".

> @"Mbelch.9028" said:

> Sorry some folks clearly became accustomed to 3 spam. Thief doesn't deserve nerfs, but PP is braindead and it did.

So what? People should decide for themselves how they want to play the game. If they want to use a simple strategy which has a lot of counterplay then that's their decision. Abuse it, it's an easy win for everyone who knows how to deal with it. But that's beside the point. Something over / underperforming is a valid justificaiton for buffs / nerfs, simply saying "I don't like how this guy plays the game" however is not.

> @"Wargameur.6950" said:

> Does anyone succeeded going into stealth with deadeye stolen skills ?

Yes but the malice requirement makes this impractical, I liked the F2 skills better before they had this annoying cast time slapped onto them.

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > @"godmoney.6025" said:

> > Exposed Weakness: The damage this trait causes has been changed from 10% damage if the target has a condition to 2% damage per unique condition on a target.

> > - A nerf to most power builds running DA especially in 1v1, considering you almost always won't have 5 condis on the enemy player.

> > From a D/P Daredevil (which I still play) perspective, from Lotus Poison and Serpent's touch you will guarantee weakness and poison, giving you 4% during burst, 6% if you land a blind during. Most of the times this will be a 4%-8% damage loss during a 1v1 fight.

>

> Ever thought maybe it is to discourage 1v1?

On a class that's particularly designed for 1v1 combat? Do you really think the responsible dev hates thief this much? I mean the evidence speaks for itself so I won't deny it.

> @"reddie.5861" said:

> deadeye got buffed

Not even that, rifle got buffed but the nerf to dual pistol was just uncalled for.

> @"KumaDXL.9124" said:

> Why would you nerf Pistole + Pistole and buff soulbeast dmg ? Soulbeast already beat deadeye pp on mostly everything. Really nerfing p/p thief ??? The class is already too risky to play u die by every class literally on 1 v 1 not to mention mesmer can delete you from the match if he is against you in the match and mesmer isn't the only class can delete a deadeye p/p. This p/p thief Isn't even meta ! why nerf it. I'm the only guy with at least a decent build for it and I can tell you there is no way I can carry a PVP ranked match with this build. Mesmer, Engi holosmith, Thief, Rev , soulbeast all these classes can delete p/p Deadeye thief on a PVP ranked match, So explain to me why nerf? The first nerf was the stun on deadeye. now you nerf the p/p unload skill. Like 2 nerfs for my build on the two last seasons why ?! it's not even OP its not even meta. I'm the only person who got a decent build for it! With all respect, ArenaNet Balance team stop hearing Gold and Silver crying babies and get some feedback from your Plat or Legends players. The deadeye p/p is supposed to kill fast because it dies fast by any burst combo even FIREBRAND support can kill a deadeye on 1 v 1 if he is smart enough. Holosmith can do the same amount of massive dmg as the deadeye p/p and can survive even better!

Well some people were complaining about flashy pew pew cause they dont know how to game mechanic so A-Net did what had to be done.

> @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > What I don't understand is why power got nerfed (again) when almost every Thief player will tell you it's dmg is completely sub-par to practically all other professions. Other professions needs their dmg nerfed or Thief it's increased, which would be the worse choice of the two, but still point is there is no freaking reason to keep nerfing Thief. Just why?

Wanna know why? [Thats why.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/46907/deadeye-is-broken-op "Thats why.") Stuff like unload can be quite flashy especially if the thief is running dual HOPE and getting killed by flashy stuff can be very tilting for many players (especially in combination with stealth). I suspect it's a combination of the devs not knowing what they're doing and noobs complaining about stuff they find annoying or some dev @ A-Net really does have a hateboner for thief which I don't think is the case but at this point I wouldn't rule it out either.

It's not just the poison thing which needs to be reversed, the change to unload and some other stuff is also quite nonsensical.

> @"kash.9213" said:

> I feel like DE is being worked on by a dev who hates fighting DE's

This profession in a nutshell.

> @"godmoney.6025" said:

> I don't understand why we get these changes

Because it apparently sounded cool when someone suggested it during their internal meeting, no seriously they say they're listening to "user feedback" but most of these changes don't match the feedback I see on a day to day basis at all (even tho some of the criticism is about the same stuff over and over again for multiple years now).

> @"Scud.5067" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > I wouldn't really call it "love" when we also got some unwarranted nerfs, a big part of it are just bug fixes anyways.

>

> Eh if folks playing Condi, not a good day - tho it was obviously gonna get a slap.

Even if your not playing condi there are other nerfs with no point to them.