Grimjack.8130

Engineer: Great changes across the board, Scrapper needs to be toned down in WvW and losing access to Chemical Field's easy poison is fine.

 

Guardian: I wouldn't remove Aegis on either F3 skill. Good F2 change. Sanctuary change won't do anything, so might as well.

 

Mesmer: I don't think you need to change Illusion of Life, however if you do I wouldn't increase its CD a bit if the duration goes down. Good Mantra changes, amazing Chaos Storm change. Chaotic Interruption change seems neat, it might come in too weak, but easily adjustable if so.

 

Necromancer: Good changes, needs to be toned down in WvW. Not sure if the Barrier needs to be nerfed in PvP, maybe 20% is a bit more fair?

 

Ranger: Good change.

 

Revenant: Hammer change is good. 600 Radius on Gaze of Darkness ' reveal is a bit too big, I'm not sure if it needs to be increased.

 

Warrior: Warhorn is probably okay right now, I'm not sure it needs to be touched, but the revamp doesn't seem too strong. Sight Beyond Sight going up to 600 range is a good change, unlike Gaze of Darkness.

 

 

Overall the changes seem to be very orientated to WvW, the meta would be much healthier with these changes.

Detection Pulse will most likely overshadow Sight Beyond Sight and Gaze of Darkness still.

 

Not much will change in PvP off these changes, but condi Mirage/Mesmer may be pushed out completely. Pretty good changes though, you hit the skills/traits that needed to be hit.

@SoulSlavocracy.4902 / @solemn.9608 Friend, I have news for you. Focus is better than Dagger offhand for Fire Weaver. This is not an opinion I alone hold, you can ask any other renowned Weaver, you can ask Koto, Phanta, Illegal Math, or Crann.

 

Off-hand Dagger does less cleanse than Focus does, by alot even. You get 3 cleanse off of Dagger? You get more than 6 off of Focus. Magnetic Wave does 3, Fire Aura application does 1, Detonating Fire Aura is two, but the CD on Detonating is so so low that you can cast it 2-3 times before you would cast Cleansing Wave a second time.

 

Ring of Fire does do more burning than Detonating Fire Aura, but once again the CD is a bit longer than Transmuting Fire Aura and its not uncommon to detonate it in quick successions of each other, its not a huge difference either way in this case, but something to note is its very easy to do Blink Bursts with Transmuting Fire Aura as once you finish the cast of detonating it, theres a slight delay on the damage packet actually being thrown out there.

Fire Grab is a weird skill, its great, but you're on Sage Amulet, so best case scenario you're at 25% (or 40% with the Weakness trait.) crit chance, with no Ferocity too, this skill won't hit too hard in the grand scheme of things.

 

Ride the Lightning? Great skill, but it won't do much. 1200 range is not a long distance with the power crept mobility skills we've had put in the game, not to mention the permanent abundance of Revenant and Thief in sPvP. It's not as good as a blink would be, its a huge difference and one people skip over.

Updraft is used for it's CC more than the evade, so its not strictly worse than Obsidian Flesh, but Obsidian Flesh is so many miles better sustain wise, and Gale is one of the best CCs in the entire game which makes Updraft look really bad, even when you consider that you get a whole-nother skill on Dagger.

 

Earthquake is a great skill, not much I can say negative about it, but Gale is better.

Churning Earth is undersold alot, but you're overhyping it. It's amazing in the Mesmer matchup, you'll always come out ahead when you decide to cast it, its guaranteed to force sometime of CD in pretty much any other matchup too. However thats where its perks end really. You force a dodge, or a full counter, or you cleave out a bunch of clones. Nothing more.

 

Frost Aura is amazing, but will it make a difference in those situations where you die in, no. The only times a Weaver should die is when it has no answers, no nothing to get out of it. A 20% damage reduction will make you last 2 seconds longer (if that), but you can't do anything after those 2 seconds, you're still dead.

Cleansing Wave is a big old "meh" skill. Its overhyped. As a Weaver you should always be resustaining back to FULL(remember that word its important) health after about 12-15 seconds. If you full heal anyways, that 2k-3k heal from Cleansing Wave is irrelevant, and if you're not full healing you're mechanics are struggling, not your offhand. This is the exact same reason Water as a traitline starts to fall off, you don't need the raw healing it gives you at a certain point.

 

Overall Dagger has a ton of average skills, and some skills that are great and warrant letting you run it like Ring of Fire, Firegrab, and Earthquake.

Focus has some pretty bad skills just like Dagger though, Freezing Gust is very lackluster, sure Chill can be pretty strong sometimes, even 3 seconds of it, but its lackluster. Comet is an amazing skill so much of the time, but others its not better Earthquake, not even close.

But you always have Obsidian Flesh, Detonate Fire Aura, Gale, Swirling Winds, and Magnetic Wave, that are just so good, in every scenario.

 

Focus is superior to Dagger so much, in this meta that its better than Dagger on Sages Water most of the time as well.

Weaver is a class that on the surface level looks very broken, but when you look at it beyond that you can see why its quite weak.

It is without a doubt one of the squishiest classes in the game, 18-22k HP with no toughness and a focus on healing power.

It has long recharge stunbreaks, that are very punishing if you use improperly or at the wrong time.

It's really easy to not throw your attacks into Water 2 Earth 2 + double dodge combo, because you know they're going to use 3/4 dodges in a row consistantly, if they don't they don't get enough HP. Always pressure them after this, not when they're in Fire or whatever you think is better, they may use Twist to cover it, because they have to, but then thats a twist they don't have later.

Weavers also get affected by Chill, Cripple, Immob, and Weakness alot more than other classes (poison too I guess?)

 

 

They have alot of on demand evades, but they're used for very important and specific things, its easy to play around if you actually TRY.

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > @"Sampson.2403" said:

> > I actually think it's hilarious that someone would do that. And i even have more respect for them because they can.

> >

> > If u dont like it then get better at the game than them and it won't matter how many alt accounts they have.

>

> I don't think you understand man

>

> The alt accounts are used to manipulate games so the main accounts can climb without worry.

>

> Duoq+1 solo on an alt. All three in comms. Only accept games that pop for all 3 of you at the same time.

>

> If alt is on the enemy team they can throw making the game a 4v5

>

> If alt is on your team you try hard with 3 in comms. If the game is a loss, alt logs so the main accounts don't lose rating.

>

> Skill has nothing to do with it. Ever see a core ele or mes in a p2 game? Guess which team wins or how that match was rigged.

 

literally no one does that, im sorry, but no one does that anymore. Maybe in gold, but I've queued 800 games this season, I've watched 400 games that have been streamed and no one does this shit

He got a higher rating than them, just win more :) Easy solution.

"weave in and outa air for crazy sustain." Forum users don't even know Woven Stride isn't meta and hasn't been for over a year LUL

I'm going to assume you're a Mesmer main. Weavers have a pretty good matchup versus Mirages, which most likely is why you think Weaver is overpowered right now.

From a balance perspective Weaver probably is a bit overtuned right now (nerfing Burn Glyph would be very good.) but its not overpowered, Weaver is very bad at everything that conquest wants from a class, except sitting on a node 1v1 or 1v2. It has poor mobility, poor disengage, poor teamfight potential, poor chase potential.

 

Crazy how a class that I admit, is most likely overtuned, still gets stalled by a ton of classes. It's very punishing for bad players to fight, Pyro Vortex, Glyph, Lava Skin, Pri Stance are all great at killing bad players very quickly, but this is where its very important to remember, you don't balance off of skill gaps. You will kill a bad Warrior, you will not kill a good Warrior.

 

Weaver is not even close to oppressive, if you lose 1v1 to it on most classes, you played bad, or the Weaver is just better than you.

It's also incredibly important to note what type of Weaver we're talking about, Water and Fire are massively different.

Hey, remember the last time Mesmer was insane and Weaver was the counter but no one played it? Deja Vu :)

Weaver has too many issues with how conquest works to be top tier without being really broken. It's slow, it can be chased and it can't chase and has mediocre damage unless you're on Fire. You can drop Lightning Flash for Glyph and now your damage is alot better, but your chase potential and disengage potential (which already isn't great) gets worse. If you keep Lightning Flash, your damage stays low. You create another hole when you try to close one. Weaver can't teamfight, its incredibly easy to focus, it can't deal with conditions(chill, cripple, immob, torment, confusion) as well as most other classes, and its very easy to know how to outplay.

 

The Primordial Stance buff is nice, and all the buffs are, but they're greatly overexaggerated. No matter how much Earth and Water get buffed in one patch, effectively only one trait line is getting buffed (pergame), you can't put on Earth and Water on the same Weaver build just because they get buffed, you need your other 2 current trait lines, Weaver and Arcane.

The Primordial Stance buff helps your sustain more than anything, it'll just give you an extra stack of Stability when you're super low on CDs and trying to bail 1v2/1v3.

 

The Water changes are exactly what Weaver needed, trading cleanse and healing for damage but not giving all of it up.

The Fire changes won't be a huge deal, CI Mirage is still very strong and dropping Smothering Auras in that matchup makes it unwinnable. People will play Burning Rage, but it opens them up to losing 1v1 to other Weavers, to every Mirage and Scourge even quicker, it opens a gap if you don't exploit that gap, thats on you.

The Air changes are pretty irrelevant, just a tiny bit more damage.

Earth changes, its the Earth traitline, its bad.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Courageous_Return @"Crab Fear.1624" Prenerf every rez every 30 seconds would give you F3 back, now its only 10 seconds off the CD.

They nerfed Firebrand and Scourge in a "recent" patch, Firebrand lost the Tome reset + base CDs on Tomes (and more), Scourge lost its passive Spectral Armor, and more.

 

This made them debunkable from a node, they could die, and they could die quite easily, classes that did more damage became more relevant because of this.

 

Then Portal got nerfed to 30 seconds. Now you couldn't even port your Firebrand/Scourge out consistently from a bad fight.

As a Duo, Firebrand/Scourge didn't mean alot, its just part of the team fight now, not too much more.

 

I don't know how OP or anyone in this thread can say Firebrand or Scourge are the issue of why we have this meta, second they aren't even a thing in Ranked, any Firebrand/ Scourge you see will fold to things they shouldn't and will ALWAYS rotate improperly, if not due to their skill and rotational knowledge, because of their other teammates forcing different and improper rotations.

 

And last off, Firebrand/Scourge are easily killed and debunked in this current meta, the nerfs they had done to them made this meta what it is, this is why theres 2 Revenant teams in half of the EU rosters, that's why you see less Thieves and instead more Revenants.

 

If anything, Firebrand and Scourge should be buffed, it was skillful to have Portal in the game, it was skillful to have a roadblock that took proper rotations to work around.

 

Incase you're not talking about 5v5s or Firebrand/Scourge in any regard, and just Firebrand in Ranked, full support Firebrand is VERY bad in ranked, for reasons that it takes high awareness and rotational skill to play properly, and you're made useless when your teammates rotate incorrectly or are picking a bad fight.

DPS Hybrid Support Firebrand is very obnoxious, even more so with a Revenant, but not OP, easily killable and punished, its a snowball machine, it might snowball the other team, or it'll feed and you'll get snowballed.

 

 

give fb back its tome reset k thx

 

It's a buff, but only where you can afford to take Burning Rage, it competes with Smothering Auras. Even in a game with no condition classes there are reasons to run Smothering Auras, thieves provide some serious chill uptime with F2, the weakness and immob procs, Revenants will most likely run Axe offhand post nerf so more chill and slow just like Deathstrike has now. Not even talking about Necro or Mesmer yet.

 

There are games where you will be running Burning Rage, but the Ranked meta will evolve (CI Mirage is unnerfed) people will swap to it to counter Burning Rage Weavers, and people will stick to Smothering Auras.

Was duoing with Roy and I got this gem, was pretty good. If it doesn't look impressive, its not that hard to do, but watch the animation of the stomp, it was really close to going through. https://clips.twitch.tv/ToughWealthyMushroomSmoocherZ

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/MoralElegantSalamanderVoteNay 1v3 too I guess, we still lost this game too, rough.

 

Once again Megametlzer you're looking at the skills directly rather than the value they bring overall, thats a mistake, and thats why you're unable to fully understand how the game works.

In fact you didn't even understand when I say "hits a ton" I mean't it pulses damage rapidly, rather than the overall damage it puts out.

Prep rock barrier like you want to anyways, if you don't find a burst target in 4 seconds or you're kiting like you might have to, water is a fine attunement to go in, it also gives you burst synergy with Comet if you end up not needing Water Earth, you can be ready in Air Water and have 8k damage ready for whatever you need.

 

 

Also do people still play Mender Weaver in Unranked/Ranked? I thought I disproved that was (almost) always suboptimal to Sages with the same exact build? (drop wovenstride for invigstrikes k thx) or just play Fire Weaver which is the best build for Weaver right now anyways.

 

 

You seem to not understand the Fresh Air playstyle and for that you say things are impossible/impractical that are very practical, its common for people to do that though, so its not an errant mistake. I would recommend you watch someone whos quite experienced at Fresh Air Weaver and you'll probably realize how you're viewing it is wrong.

The whole Fracturing Strike and Stone Tide arguments you came up with really drive that point to me.

 

@Arheundel.6451 since you want to see actual proof. @Megametzler.5729 and you seem that actually showing you would significantly help you, I invite you both to tune in to my stream once or twice :)

You cannot say a skill is bad because you view the build as bad or unviable, thats an arguement thats flawed. Regardless of the strength of the build overall, you should be able to see the value the skills bring to the table. Sadly you cannot, and you would rather try to play me down as some random who doesn't know what I'm talking about.

 

It seems you don't even see the niche that Fresh Air Weaver can create for itself, it has more sustain than any other "one shot" build in the game, it also never runs out of damage meaning theres no other class worse for you to let free cast than a Fresh Air Weaver. I've played Fresh Air Weaver in 5v5s versus some of the best players in the game. It has some of the best ranged spike, probably only second to Sic' Em Soulbeast on top of everything else I've already mentioned. Regardless, this isn't what this thread is about, but I can go on if you want.

 

You also completely skipped over my point about Twin Strike, I'd assume because you can't figure out a reason why I would be wrong.

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"Grimjack.8130" said:

> > Twin Strike is really good, Fracturing Strike is REALLY good, and Stone Tide is really good too.

>

> The problem is that other classes have powercrept away. So while they are good in a core/HoT context, they are lackluster in PoF.

>

> Not too much. No need to overbuff ele. But some small adjustments in ranges, projectile speeds and QoL (casting backwards, some CDs...) would be great.

 

Don't try to change my words when I say they are good skills. They aren't good in whatever context you're trying to put them in, I'm telling you they are straight up, good skills. You can't tell that because you don't see the same synergy that others do.

 

Twin Strike is a key in the loop of both Fire and Water Weaver, that pushes your offensive capability to the max even when you're resustaining. Very few Weavers take advantage of where this skill is located and how to use it optimally, even popular Weaver youtubers completely skip over this skill.

Fracturing Strike is a two part hard hitting skill that has great synergy with Fresh Air, and its even a great skill in the rare Lightning Rod Scepter builds that people sometimes play. (also vuln.)

Stone Tide hits a ton, guaranteeing your Fresh Air proc when used on someone CCed or in the downstate, and stacks great Vulnerability dramatically buffing you and your teams downcleave or removes Aegis so harder hitting skills will land (Shatterstone).

 

 

Twin Strike is really good, Fracturing Strike is REALLY good, and Stone Tide is really good too.

Ping is obviously 100% dependant on where you live. People who live in London can get as low as 90 ping on NA, which is lower than some West Coast players get.

Some EU people will get higher ping than NA players on the West Coast, some will get less. Case by case basis.

same!!!!!!

Just because Soulbeast is more annoying than Fresh Air is or was, doesn't mean it was healthy for the game.

but Weaver isn't bad?

 

(dont buff fresh air, remember ranked pre FA weaver nerf? I remember *spoiler* it wasnt fun.)

Game improving Pog

Bunker Weaver is okay, Soulbeast being nerfed pretty hard pushed it in a better spot, it'll beat Mirages and Warriors, and stall everything else.

 

Revenant and Scourge plussing into a Weaver will destroy it, probably quicker than most other sidenoders, but just about anything else, a D/P thief, a S/D thief, Core Guard, thats where it wants to be. It punishes those classes really really hard when they 2v1. When a Bunker Weaver does what it wants to do, no class can even come close to it, it's just rare for that to happen.

 

 

Fresh Air Weaver is just a worse Power Mirage, it does too much damage too frequently to target something else before it, which goes to show how much damage it really pumps out. It's downfall is it can't mitigate other peoples damage when they turn to focus it, you can't focus a Mirage doing crazy damage, you can easily do that to a Fresh Air Weaver.

Bunker Weaver counters Mirage and Core Guard, as well D/P or S/D thief, very easy to pressure off a plus from one of those given you have enough cooldowns, which if you don't you're probably playing Weaver wrong.

Fresh Air Weaver counters Strength/Discipline Spellbreakers, Firebrands too I guess?

There are 2 types of ranged skills in this game, arcing, and nonarcing. For example Warrior rifle has only nonarcing ranged skills, which means they are exactly the range they state. Arcing skills go up, then down, so Ranger LB 1, Warrior Pin Down, and they'll go slightly farther than the range they state as a result.