Trevor Boyer.6524

> @"DogMD.9182" said: > > @"noiwk.2760" said: > > 100% spvp suck atm.. > > i think the biggest issue is actually not having your own mate you are likely to be teamed with 2-3 bots and i dont jsut mean bad players i mean literally bots that run and farm gold all day long.. which for some reason Anet does nothing to prevent. > > sPvp is the most frustrating thing for honest players and i think being able to que as 3 buddies might reduce the frustration and ensure that 3 players are not bots > > Exactly, If you 5 que, you GUARANTEE you have no bots on your team It also guarantees that when people are win trading, their synch queues for throwing don't land on your team, and that's the most important part about having 5 man reenabled.

Rev/Herald is fine, all forms of it. Ren right now is just plainly overperforming in too many categories to let it slide any further than the next patch. You'll hear a lot of conjecture on this topic concerning what should be nerfed yada yada. IMO though, it's the taunt. The taunt makes that entire build work. The taunt is what makes it dangerous. If it weren't for that frequent powerful 1200 range taunt, the build would be easily kited and it would be balanced.

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > @"Supreme.3164" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > what other skills? > > > > > this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value > > > > > > > > Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho. > > > > > > exactly my point? > > > 30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference > > > 30s cd vs 40s cd, massive difference > > > more over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd. > > > untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh > > > > > > edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30s > > > the CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm > > > > If we're talking about stunbreaks creating distance on more or less the same CD untraited, while being basically the "same" CD if traited; if we're talking about CD then there are several others stunbreaks in the same CD category > > > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stomp > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Judgment > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Outrage > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Air > > we are talking about stun removing tools that dodge, the only things close that come to mid as I said are sand through glass ( mechanically unsound skill ) > roll for ini ( 50s cd vs 30s cd ) twist of fate ( 75s vs 30s ), riposting shadows ( 40 energy vs 30s ) > and those skills are much harder to trait, you gave example of blink, I have to shoot myself in the foot by taking chaos to trait this thing, so in reality it has 35s cd vs 24s off LR. > you also kind of have bandits defence? but it doesnt move your character. LR is just hands down the best in its category I feel like people are too hung up on the idea "skills that are similar" skills that dodge and remove stun. I mean you have things that are stronger than that, such as Blink and Shadow Step or JI, which are stun breaks and don't need dodge because they are a long range teleport for disengage. The list goes on like this. LR may be the strongest skill of its type, but it isn't the strongest stun breaking disengage tool, not even close. I mean if you look just Withdraw, it cleanses waaaay more condis than LR, does a large heal, stealths you at the end of the animation, and is on like a 10s CD in pvp. I'm just pointing that out. I feel like LR is getting an inordinate amount of attention for being so strong, when other skills of its type are doing a lot more for the builds that run them than people are giving them credit for. And @"Dantheman.3589" yeah, those are the functions that people don't seem to be aware of. When I was saying that passive CC literally cancels the use of LR as if it weren't on your utility bar at all, I don't think some people quite understood what I meant by that.

> @"ZDragon.3046" said: > i still think LR is fine as is it would be better to just look at the engi shield stun and put a icd on how often it can stun a person just like shocking aura that way the odds of you getting stuck with LR is less likely. complain about the real issue which is the shield block having no icd per target not about oh my skill needs the damage removed so i dont get trapped or it needs more damage to make it worth getting trapped every so often. > > Like everyone one else said LR is one of the best evasion tools in the game simply based on its cd alone thats not even counting all its other trait boosted functions. > Sorry @"Trevor Boyer.6524" I cant agree with a QoL change on a meta skill thats already far better than other skills similar to it. > > At best you should be asking why passive cc is not being addressed properly as it effects all classes not just ranger which would be more reasonable to debate from several perspectives. Yeah I agree with you on the passive CC thing. I've already written plenty on that in this forum. But for w/e reason Arenanet is choosing to leave it all as is right now. I only revisited the LR thing because it is increasingly becoming a larger and larger problem as more players are playing sword/shield Holos and rocking Shock Aura all of the time, if not being handed it from Aura Share. You guys keep bringing up "Not changing anything because LR is better than other skills like it" but see I'm looking at it like that. This isn't about OP or UP, for me. The basis of what I am saying is coming from a place of general game design and cleaning up things that are just sloppy. I mean you could have something that was the strongest skill in the game, but that doesn't mean it isn't sloppy and dumb to use. So, if you can see what I mean there. Anyway, I respect your views. Thanks for keeping things clean.

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > He doesn't have a point though. Those skills don't cause random damage resulting in being interrupted from passive CCs. > > > > He's just fishing for reasons to argue at this point. > > > > Kind of like if two people were discussing the parameters of a car engine, and then a third person kept interjecting and pointing out how the car was painted red, which has nothing to do with the car engine. > > > > > He does have a point, which it seems you don't understand or ignore on purpose. > One way or another, if you want that damage to be removed, as a price for such change I **demand** base 50s cd on it, that should be fine "balance" for such overloaded skill. > LR gets interrupted additionally by like 2 skills/effects(Shocking Aura and Static Shield) compared to others with same "rollback" mechanic thingie... Like for real... No he doesn't have a point or make a point at all, and he rarely even addresses anything that anyone has actually said other than himself, and what he says streeeetches the truth of mechanics, often leaving out the facts. What he is doing is compounding his own statements and responding to them over and over, as if they were the basis of the discussion, rather than keeping it real and paying attention to what people are actually saying, and he seems to like to toss in a lot of misleading misinformation while doing it. What you said Troll, is a viable discussion, about LR going to 50s if damage is removed. That at least makes sense and you're not making a play on words or putting anything into anyone's mouth while making your statement, and there is no misinformation in it. This other guy on the other hand, is just spouting things off that are borderline worth reporting for derailment of the topic. Take a look at what I mean: > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > Why are you acting like this skill is ranger exclusive with its 'issues'? Acting as if this thread weren't a thread specifically discussing the class Ranger and the skill Lightning Reflexes. Acting as if Lightning Reflexes weren't the only skill of its type that has a random damage proc that creates the listed issues. The issue being discussed is indeed Ranger specific. > You know Roll for Initiative, Withdraw, and Riposting Shadows all function the same way and nobody cries about them because everyone understands the uses of these skills and uses them accordingly. Acting as if Lightning Reflexes were being misused? That's a lot of propaganda man. That's quite a statement to throw at someone like me. Nobody cries about Withdraw, Riposting Shadows, Roll for Init, ect ect, because those skills don't have tiny damage proc that cancels the usage. See right here is again acting like these skills work exactly the same as LR, but clearly they do not. His entire statement encourages the idea that those skills are the same as LR but that everyone using those other skills don't complain about them because they are properly using them, and that only LR users are complaining because they aren't using LR properly. That's a lot of propaganda man. It's just too much. Keep the discussion real and less routed with misinformation. > So if we use them into a spectral ring, it's our fault and not the skill. Same applies when we're playing Ranger. See right here, he brings this up as fuel for his argument but that is nothing like what I actually said. I was using Spectral Ring as an example earlier of how LR can be used advantageously while putting your back to a wall and LRing into the wall. Not once did I say anything about LRing across Spectral Ring, nor did I complain about Spectral Ring, but he brings this up as if I had been complaining about LR vs. Spectral Ring and makes sure to point out that it's your fault if you go across Spectral Ring. He's going out into Nevernever land here with his statement. What's he's said here actually has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at all. Nothing. Ask yourself why would he even go here, if the discussion is about the damage proc on Lightning Reflexes? How did he end up there with his statement? > If LR wasn't intended to have damage then Anet would have removed it ages ago. It's intended but you just don't like it. Obviously we don't like it. That's why threads keep getting written about it. And whether or not it is intended is besides the point. We've seen plenty of "intended" mechanics get fixed over the years. So why bring this up why take the time to point out the obvious? > > You're not identifying anything a Ranger would identify, you're arguing for the sake of your class over others because it's likely your favorite when the skill in question is arguably stronger than the equivalentones on other classes. 'Buff my class and nerf everything else.' Only here you've got the gall to argue people who don't agree aren't Ranger players. L2P or stop using LR, this is entirely your problem. This is the equivalent of crying racism in politics. Tbh over the years, I cringe every time I see someone play this card. It's just bad forum conduct and rude to other users. It's the simplest way to aim a super cheap low blow at someone in attempts to discredit them. I often think that it should be in the forum TOS that forum users aren't allowed to point at and accuse someone of bias based off what class they main. "As if every single player in the game didn't main and favor a particular class" Well I guess none of anyone's feedback can be trusted! gg anyway Yeah so, For all of the garbage that this man has written, I couldn't take any of it seriously because all of it is cheap shots and low blows, with no real body of statement for discussion. Whereas @"TrollingDemigod.3041" was able to make a single sentence that comprised an actual topic for discussion. Some people should pay attention and learn a lesson from that.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Tanbin.2436" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what other skills? > > > > > > > > > > > this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly my point? > > > > > > > > > 30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference > > > > > > > > > 30s cd vs 40s cd, massive difference > > > > > > > > > more over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd. > > > > > > > > > untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30s > > > > > > > > > the CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're missing the point bud. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We can discuss how unbelievably godlike and powerful Lightning Reflexes is, after the sloppy mechanic is fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To stress this point I mean like: Even if the skill were on a 10s or a 60s cd, it shouldn't get auto canceled by passive CC, regardless of its cd time or effects attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only hard CC I can think of that you get hit with by the damage portion of LR is Shocking Aura and Engi's shield stun. Full Counter will proc but not connect with you. Not exactly a game breaking issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > It gets auto CC'd by Shock Aura, Engi Shield Stun, and FLASHBANG. Considering that everyone and their brother runs an Engineer or Tempest nowadays, and that aura share puts Shock Aura on everyone in a team fight, yeah using Lightning Reflexes is a problem right now and it has been for quite some time. When you stack Flashbang on top of Engi Shield and stack it on top of Shock Aura share, yeah man it's a problem. But that's just discussing the issue with passive auto CCs. That's not even addressing the other things I had mentioned in my OP post. > > > > > > > > > > > > And the part about "Full Counter won't even hit you" is a naive thing to say. You probably don't have enough experience playing Ranger to understand that LR is not always used in a traditional manner where you go backwards 180 degrees from an opponent. Sometimes you have to use it while your back is against a wall or some other object, which means you get a short evade frame but don't go anywhere. Or if you LR and land near the Spellbreaker at the end of the LR when your evade frame is already used up. You also aren't considering team fights, where the Ranger LRing away from a Spellbreaker will trigger the FC to hit others when those players would have otherwise stopped aiming attacks at the Spellbreaker. > > > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical problem needs to be fixed. If this same problem were happening on a skill on the class that you play, you know you would agree with me. > > > > > > > > > > You going into a wall when using it is the same as complaining that it sent you off the a ledge or cliff; every case is your fault for poor positioning, not a flaw in the skill. > > > > > > > > You're still understanding/identifying with situations rangers get into. Example: at mid in forest, sometimes effects like spectral ring or ring of warding ect, will surround you but a certain side of it will clip into a wall. Normally using LR would make you hit the outside of Spectral Ring or Ward or Dragon's Maw, but if the side clips into the elevation, you can put your back to the wall and use LR without penalty. > > > > > > > > Argue all you want but don't parade as if you knew about maining Ranger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Congrats, you hit the SpB with a damage skill that procs it and hits your team. That's literally applicable with any other skill that does similar things. Don't use it when a SpB is using FC right in front of you. > > > > > > > > That's not really the point bud. The point is that LR is an escape skill but for whatever reason has random tiny damage attached to it so that it ruins the cast. If this is intended then w/e, but if it wasn't intended to ruin LR usage, I'm simply pointing out to Arenanet that it is a problem. That damage could at least be substantial for all the mechanical problems it causes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you really assuming that because I don't agree with you on this issue that I don't play the class? It sounds like you're just incapable of working around the skills functions and need to either stop using it or get over it. > > > > > > > > No, I assuming you don't play Ranger because you aren't identifying anything that a Ranger main would identify. All of the things you're saying is coming from a place of imagining & assumption, rather than experience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you acting like this skill is ranger exclusive with its 'issues'? You know Roll for Initiative, Withdraw, and Riposting Shadows all function the same way and nobody cries about them because everyone understands the uses of these skills and uses them accordingly. So if we use them into a spectral ring, it's our fault and not the skill. Same applies when we're playing Ranger. > > > > > > If LR wasn't intended to have damage then Anet would have removed it ages ago. It's intended but you just don't like it. > > > > > > You're not identifying anything a Ranger would identify, you're arguing for the sake of your class over others because it's likely your favorite when the skill in question is arguably stronger than the equivalentones on other classes. 'Buff my class and nerf everything else.' Only here you've got the gall to argue people who don't agree aren't Ranger players. L2P or stop using LR, this is entirely your problem. You repeatedly claimed that Flashbang was an issue in relation to LR when it has no interaction with it at all, so you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. > > > > This forum thread isn't about those skills, it's about Lightning Reflexes. If you would like to make a thread involving those then feel free to do so. > > > > Also, riposting shadows , withdraw and RFI on meta d/p? s/d with RFI / withdraw sure but s/d isnt even the meta pick. Yea, you still have a point but again this thread isn't about those skills. This doesn't mean it isn't acknowledged. > > > > The crying "my skill does it too, what about mine so you shouldn't be able to change it and i shouldn't be left out too" never really solves anything and instead just makes you look like a baby in the middle of people trying to have an actual conversation on getting something productive done on either side of it getting changed or not changed. > > > > It really just negates any kind of productivity that could be accomplished and turns it into more of a personal thing rather than an objective goal. This happens a lot in the forums, people put their bias against a class that may or may not be op or may or may not have op abilities and try to break down a proposal based on personal grudges with the class. For the most part this is fine because conversation usually results in nothing anyway, because they don't balance around people in the PVP forums. They balance around casual performance and people in the PVE forums. > > > > Back to the actual topic, the reality is that LR is a meta pick no matter the build. You essentially need it, whether it's broken (broken != the only option, it happens to be really good but it also happens to be the only pick available for general build structure) or not negates the actual issue being presented in the thread but people get too blinded by something being busted they don't stop and entertain even the slightest open-mindedness regarding change. > > We use other skills with similar functions to determine if one is overperforming both in the design on its face and against other skills in the same category. > > This isn't a conversation about needed change or terrible function that's holding a skill back from being a meta pick or even used at all, it's the OP unable to deal with the intended drawbacks of LR and asking for it to be removed while completely ignoring the strengths of it. Would appreciate it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth. I said nothing like that. Reread my OP post to see what I said, that this thread discussion was about. Thanks. > Again, LR is the superior version of all the skills that work the same way, both in function and cooldown That is an opinion that is negligent vs. the discussion, which is about an unnecessary mechanic tied to a skill that serves no purpose other than to cancel its usage. No other skill like it has such a drawback. It is clearly an unintended mechanic. > we're saying other skills do it too when the OP tries to use those similar functions as a baseline for change when others function the same way with no hinderance. **But they don't function the same way** because things like Roll For Initiative or Withdraw or ect ect, do not have random tiny damage attached to them which creates reveal and procs passive CCs. Get your mechanics straight before making arguments. > Again, if you use LR and it sends you off a cliff, it's your problem for poor positioning; same applies to RFI, RS, and Withdrawal. Nothing special about any of them, they're working as intended. No one said anything about poorly aiming LR and going off a cliff. That is something you said. This thread is solely discussing the damage proc on LR and the issues that the damage proc creates. You should reread the OP post and try to help keep things on topic. > There is no issue being presented. Reread the OP post to see the issue that is being presented. It is very finely outlined in the OP post. Lightning Reflexes is the only skill of its type to possess this problem. > The skill is working as intended and the OP doesn't like the intended use. Are you sure about that? That's up to Arenanet to decide, not you. It could be working as intended and I've already stated this. Maybe they want it to have that drawback. But judging from how it is the only skill of its type of possess such a drawback on what is supposed to be a disengage skill, I would put my money on it being an unintended mechanic. But regardless, you need to relax a bit. Making discussion is a great but there really isn't a reason to take things into a place of misinformation. > Either use another skill or get over it Nah, I'll continue to advocate that the damage proc is an unnecessary mechanic that needs to be removed, right along with all of the Ranger players who have already made the same statement, and all of the ones to come who will make the same statement as the years go on. tyvm.

> @"Tanbin.2436" said: > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what other skills? > > > > > > > > > > this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly my point? > > > > > > > > 30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference > > > > > > > > 30s cd vs 40s cd, massive difference > > > > > > > > more over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd. > > > > > > > > untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30s > > > > > > > > the CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're missing the point bud. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We can discuss how unbelievably godlike and powerful Lightning Reflexes is, after the sloppy mechanic is fixed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To stress this point I mean like: Even if the skill were on a 10s or a 60s cd, it shouldn't get auto canceled by passive CC, regardless of its cd time or effects attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > The only hard CC I can think of that you get hit with by the damage portion of LR is Shocking Aura and Engi's shield stun. Full Counter will proc but not connect with you. Not exactly a game breaking issue. > > > > > > > > > > It gets auto CC'd by Shock Aura, Engi Shield Stun, and FLASHBANG. Considering that everyone and their brother runs an Engineer or Tempest nowadays, and that aura share puts Shock Aura on everyone in a team fight, yeah using Lightning Reflexes is a problem right now and it has been for quite some time. When you stack Flashbang on top of Engi Shield and stack it on top of Shock Aura share, yeah man it's a problem. But that's just discussing the issue with passive auto CCs. That's not even addressing the other things I had mentioned in my OP post. > > > > > > > > > > And the part about "Full Counter won't even hit you" is a naive thing to say. You probably don't have enough experience playing Ranger to understand that LR is not always used in a traditional manner where you go backwards 180 degrees from an opponent. Sometimes you have to use it while your back is against a wall or some other object, which means you get a short evade frame but don't go anywhere. Or if you LR and land near the Spellbreaker at the end of the LR when your evade frame is already used up. You also aren't considering team fights, where the Ranger LRing away from a Spellbreaker will trigger the FC to hit others when those players would have otherwise stopped aiming attacks at the Spellbreaker. > > > > > > > > > > This mechanical problem needs to be fixed. If this same problem were happening on a skill on the class that you play, you know you would agree with me. > > > > > > > > You going into a wall when using it is the same as complaining that it sent you off the a ledge or cliff; every case is your fault for poor positioning, not a flaw in the skill. > > > > > > You're still understanding/identifying with situations rangers get into. Example: at mid in forest, sometimes effects like spectral ring or ring of warding ect, will surround you but a certain side of it will clip into a wall. Normally using LR would make you hit the outside of Spectral Ring or Ward or Dragon's Maw, but if the side clips into the elevation, you can put your back to the wall and use LR without penalty. > > > > > > Argue all you want but don't parade as if you knew about maining Ranger. > > > > > > > > > > > Congrats, you hit the SpB with a damage skill that procs it and hits your team. That's literally applicable with any other skill that does similar things. Don't use it when a SpB is using FC right in front of you. > > > > > > That's not really the point bud. The point is that LR is an escape skill but for whatever reason has random tiny damage attached to it so that it ruins the cast. If this is intended then w/e, but if it wasn't intended to ruin LR usage, I'm simply pointing out to Arenanet that it is a problem. That damage could at least be substantial for all the mechanical problems it causes. > > > > > > > > > > > Are you really assuming that because I don't agree with you on this issue that I don't play the class? It sounds like you're just incapable of working around the skills functions and need to either stop using it or get over it. > > > > > > No, I assuming you don't play Ranger because you aren't identifying anything that a Ranger main would identify. All of the things you're saying is coming from a place of imagining & assumption, rather than experience. > > > > > > > > > > Why are you acting like this skill is ranger exclusive with its 'issues'? You know Roll for Initiative, Withdraw, and Riposting Shadows all function the same way and nobody cries about them because everyone understands the uses of these skills and uses them accordingly. So if we use them into a spectral ring, it's our fault and not the skill. Same applies when we're playing Ranger. > > > > If LR wasn't intended to have damage then Anet would have removed it ages ago. It's intended but you just don't like it. > > > > You're not identifying anything a Ranger would identify, you're arguing for the sake of your class over others because it's likely your favorite when the skill in question is arguably stronger than the equivalentones on other classes. 'Buff my class and nerf everything else.' Only here you've got the gall to argue people who don't agree aren't Ranger players. L2P or stop using LR, this is entirely your problem. You repeatedly claimed that Flashbang was an issue in relation to LR when it has no interaction with it at all, so you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. > > This forum thread isn't about those skills, it's about Lightning Reflexes. If you would like to make a thread involving those then feel free to do so. > > Also, riposting shadows , withdraw and RFI on meta d/p? s/d with RFI / withdraw sure but s/d isnt even the meta pick. Yea, you still have a point but again this thread isn't about those skills. He doesn't have a point though. Those skills don't cause random damage resulting in being interrupted from passive CCs. He's just fishing for reasons to argue at this point. Kind of like if two people were discussing the parameters of a car engine, and then a third person kept interjecting and pointing out how the car was painted red, which has nothing to do with the car engine.

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > > > in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what other skills? > > > > > > > this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value > > > > > > > > > > > > Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho. > > > > > > > > > > exactly my point? > > > > > 30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference > > > > > 30s cd vs 40s cd, massive difference > > > > > more over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd. > > > > > untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh > > > > > > > > > > edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30s > > > > > the CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say > > > > > > > > You're missing the point bud. > > > > > > > > We can discuss how unbelievably godlike and powerful Lightning Reflexes is, after the sloppy mechanic is fixed. > > > > > > > > To stress this point I mean like: Even if the skill were on a 10s or a 60s cd, it shouldn't get auto canceled by passive CC, regardless of its cd time or effects attached. > > > > > > The only hard CC I can think of that you get hit with by the damage portion of LR is Shocking Aura and Engi's shield stun. Full Counter will proc but not connect with you. Not exactly a game breaking issue. > > > > It gets auto CC'd by Shock Aura, Engi Shield Stun, and FLASHBANG. Considering that everyone and their brother runs an Engineer or Tempest nowadays, and that aura share puts Shock Aura on everyone in a team fight, yeah using Lightning Reflexes is a problem right now and it has been for quite some time. When you stack Flashbang on top of Engi Shield and stack it on top of Shock Aura share, yeah man it's a problem. But that's just discussing the issue with passive auto CCs. That's not even addressing the other things I had mentioned in my OP post. > > > > And the part about "Full Counter won't even hit you" is a naive thing to say. You probably don't have enough experience playing Ranger to understand that LR is not always used in a traditional manner where you go backwards 180 degrees from an opponent. Sometimes you have to use it while your back is against a wall or some other object, which means you get a short evade frame but don't go anywhere. Or if you LR and land near the Spellbreaker at the end of the LR when your evade frame is already used up. You also aren't considering team fights, where the Ranger LRing away from a Spellbreaker will trigger the FC to hit others when those players would have otherwise stopped aiming attacks at the Spellbreaker. > > > > This mechanical problem needs to be fixed. If this same problem were happening on a skill on the class that you play, you know you would agree with me. > > You going into a wall when using it is the same as complaining that it sent you off the a ledge or cliff; every case is your fault for poor positioning, not a flaw in the skill. You're still not understanding/identifying with situations rangers get into. Example: at mid in forest, sometimes effects like spectral ring or ring of warding ect, will surround you but a certain side of it will clip into a wall. Normally using LR would make you hit the outside of Spectral Ring or Ward or Dragon's Maw, but if the side clips into the elevation, you can put your back to the wall and use LR without penalty. Argue all you want but don't parade as if you knew about maining Ranger. > > Congrats, you hit the SpB with a damage skill that procs it and hits your team. That's literally applicable with any other skill that does similar things. Don't use it when a SpB is using FC right in front of you. That's not really the point bud. The point is that LR is an escape skill but for whatever reason has random tiny damage attached to it so that it ruins the cast. If this is intended then w/e, but if it wasn't intended to ruin LR usage, I'm simply pointing out to Arenanet that it is a problem. That damage could at least be substantial for all the mechanical problems it causes. > > Are you really assuming that because I don't agree with you on this issue that I don't play the class? It sounds like you're just incapable of working around the skills functions and need to either stop using it or get over it. No, I assuming you don't play Ranger because you aren't identifying anything that a Ranger main would identify. All of the things you're saying is coming from a place of imagining & assumption, rather than experience.

> @"paShadoWn.5723" said: > I remember players stacked dozens of AoE skills on points, now they seem to be all about stacking blocks, evades and interrupts. What happened? Plenty of AoE in Guild Wars 2. Are you sure you're in the right gaming forum?

> @"CutesySylveon.8290" said: > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > @"GewRoo.4172" said: > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > > > > in my mind it was always a downside to the skill, that weights against how kitten OP the rest of it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > LR is no different than any other skill that functions exactly like it, of which there are many. But none of the others have a rando damage proc to ruin the skill usage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, we aren't talking a "downside" here. We are talking about complete neutralization of the skill vs. passive CCs, as if you had only brought 2 utilities into the match rather than 3. No other skill in the game has such a busted fundamental behind its mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > what other skills? > > > > > this removes stuns with almost no cooldown, creates massive distance evades and gives vigor, no other skill comes to mind that is even close to that value > > > > > > > > Roll for Initiative, Riposting Shadows are similar in some way. I am with you OP. You are a lunatic tho. > > > > > > exactly my point? > > > 30s cd vs 50s cd, massive difference > > > 30s cd vs 40s cd, massive difference > > > more over you always take cd reduction trait so realistically its 24s cd. > > > untraited roll has more then twice the cooldown bruh > > > > > > edit there is also twist of fate, 75s cd vs 30s > > > the CLOSEST thing I can think of is sand through glass, but that skill is just not right for use, undeveloped per say > > > > You're missing the point bud. > > > > We can discuss how unbelievably godlike and powerful Lightning Reflexes is, after the sloppy mechanic is fixed. > > > > To stress this point I mean like: Even if the skill were on a 10s or a 60s cd, it shouldn't get auto canceled by passive CC, regardless of its cd time or effects attached. > > The only hard CC I can think of that you get hit with by the damage portion of LR is Shocking Aura and Engi's shield stun. Full Counter will proc but not connect with you. Not exactly a game breaking issue. It gets auto CC'd by Shock Aura, Engi Shield Stun, and FLASHBANG. Considering that everyone and their brother runs an Engineer or Tempest nowadays, and that aura share puts Shock Aura on everyone in a team fight, yeah using Lightning Reflexes is a problem right now and it has been for quite some time. When you stack Flashbang on top of Engi Shield and stack it on top of Shock Aura share, yeah man it's a problem. But that's just discussing the issue with passive auto CCs. That's not even addressing the other things I had mentioned in my OP post. And the part about "Full Counter won't even hit you" is a naive thing to say. You probably don't have enough experience playing Ranger to understand that LR is not always used in a traditional manner where you go backwards 180 degrees from an opponent. Sometimes you have to use it while your back is against a wall or some other object, which means you get a short evade frame but don't go anywhere. Or if you LR and land near the Spellbreaker at the end of the LR when your evade frame is already used up. You also aren't considering team fights, where the Ranger LRing away from a Spellbreaker will trigger the FC to hit others when those players would have otherwise stopped aiming attacks at the Spellbreaker. This mechanical problem needs to be fixed. If this same problem were happening on a skill on the class that you play, you know you would agree with me.