kash.9213

> @"GreenZap.1352" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > Again, SA can energize a life leech build and can handle crowds. You can take CS and the usual Trick or SA-CS-DA and keep up the Vulnerability with Cloak and Dagger, Sundering Shade, and Even the Odds to hit up a boss while leeching adds around them. You can stagger that with slow Dancing Dagger kiting to Torment their movement while they funnel into a cone shape to mow down. > > Damage is still so low though... How would you know if the damage is too low if you haven't even taken a build out yet? You can do what you want, can't do much for you if you're not even going to ask questions beyond, how make sword good.

> @"suialthor.7164" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > Your lying. If you're not lying, you don't do enough anywhere to weigh in if that's your claim, especially since you've likely leeched off of zergs commanded by thieves because everyone has. > > I've never seen a thief command outside of small group ppt. > Right, you've never seen. I explained why you're either making that up or why you haven't seen that. At some point you might have to spend some money to transfer or something.

> @"suialthor.7164" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > > So, according to you, outside of using voice comms and perma-stealthing behind an enemy tag so your tag always knows where they are, hiding in towers and recapping solo so your tag can focus on the enemy, cutting supply lines so the enemy cannot sustain an attack, keeping enemy players from contributing to their zerg by forcing them to hunt the thief or lose the objective, and downing backliners in open field fights to provide targets for your tag to bomb, thief has no use. Gotcha. > > > > Fyi, something doesn't become useless just because you can't see a use for it. > > Where is this rare communicative thief and how can we get them to server transfer? I've only played along side ones looking to use stealth as a crutch for ganking. Your lying. If you're not lying, you don't do enough anywhere to weigh in if that's your claim, especially since you've likely leeched off of zergs commanded by thieves because everyone has.

Again, SA can energize a life leech build and can handle crowds. You can take CS and the usual Trick or SA-CS-DA and keep up the Vulnerability with Cloak and Dagger, Sundering Shade, and Even the Odds to hit up a boss while leeching adds around them. You can stagger that with slow Dancing Dagger kiting to Torment their movement while they funnel into a cone shape to mow down.

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said: > @"kash.9213" how'd you do that as thief? you'd pop within a second as a thief in midst of billions of AoE fields... i legit doubt that this works. u can do this in very cloudy open formation blobfights in openfield, but u gotta smell that this happens, idk. > > the point of sustain is to not let stuff dying in the first hand, bc downed are not rarely targets to fish for more kills. so in a 30sec fight, u can what, res 3 ppl? if u'd be a additional firebrand, they might not have even gotten under 50% health. surely, reckless pugbombers excluded, nothing can save a rambo pushing alone into 40 ppl. > > @"Junkpile.7439" yeah, but even there engi stealthers or mesmer(chrono since bulky normally) are somehow safer. thief is the peak of a glass cannon... and as u said, thief specs rarely do that > > @"ASP.8093" with "mesmer", it's meant "chronomancer". wellsupport, boonstrips, evtl pulls, veils, illusion o. life. Blast and don't blow your endurance, Initiative, and cooldown loads freaking out about every circle or false push. I also leech off of interrupts and crits and build to keep that up and Surging Runes can be a burst heal and also flip a fight if one or two of their core go down or have to bail. You might feel like padding daredevil but connecting everything you send out is more important in traits after stat thresholds as much as being alert to what you actually have to mitigate and what you can eat to keep resources staggered and not having to bounce right away. If your crits are landing and have bite, shortbow auto is lazy but sneaky good and you probably wont get focused right away.

> @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > > Its not hard to open discord app and just listen. I rarely speak in discord because "reasons" but i can listen to what the tag wants when he calls for sneak gyro or positioning changes etc. Seriously how can anyone think its such an inconvenience > > > > But then you have to listen to them. The only time you need to know what one of those squads are up to is if they're going to bring lag and circles on your spot you're trying to profit from. > > Im referring to people who want to follow a tag but complain they dont want to be in discord. If you want to follow, then get on discord. If you are just roaming around you dont need discord anyway If we're all the reading the map right we're all going to be following each other and fighting over each other. This isn't open world pvp, there's only so much room and only so many fights going on. They might think everyone is trying to follow them but for the most part some guild showing up isn't much of a factor to most people already there. But ya, if someone is tailing them and wants squad size loot they need to get with the program. > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > > Its not hard to open discord app and just listen. I rarely speak in discord because "reasons" but i can listen to what the tag wants when he calls for sneak gyro or positioning changes etc. Seriously how can anyone think its such an inconvenience > > > > But then you have to listen to them. The only time you need to know what one of those squads are up to is if they're going to bring lag and circles on your spot you're trying to profit from. > > It seems to be better if you just look away from them. The moment I look into their direction my fps dies. It's just like those fights in PvE where you have to look away from the enemy. You'll still feel it behind you subtly but that is a good idea to try to control facing. When I'd lead alliance sieges in Age of Conan I would try to drag the enemy guilds to face towards the middle of the map where all of the objects and structures on the map wanted you to know they're there. I keep pan camera speed to full for catching stuff while running around but also sometimes I need the top down view for like a minute straight in some fights or bosses.

> @"Spartacus.3192" said: > Its not hard to open discord app and just listen. I rarely speak in discord because "reasons" but i can listen to what the tag wants when he calls for sneak gyro or positioning changes etc. Seriously how can anyone think its such an inconvenience But then you have to listen to them. The only time you need to know what one of those squads are up to is if they're going to bring lag and circles on your spot you're trying to profit from.

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said: > i see so many thieves around, so i can safely say that they are useless... nothing but vultures. they have ppt-usage, but that was it. as casual as it gets. abiltiers: kill dollies, gank lonely players, pull if using that build, portal into keeps if using that build, stealthy throwing siege disablers. wow, so useful. @"Jugglemonkey.8741" none of that is real usefulness. their most senseful use would be to scout for tags, but that rarely happens. I'm usually right in the middle of three way blobs keeping people up. You sound like someone who builds their character by numbers and would be difficult to cover or keep alive. I'd still try to get you up though so you're not an obvious rally bot.

What scale of fights are you trying to move around in? A broad question like that is just going to turn your thread into another nerf thief thread from the same sad crowd.

I don't mind hidden tags but people read map and chat alerts and will end up right there anyway, guilds and squads are just going to have to be quick to reposition and blast if they don't want anyone stepping on circles. Pubs aren't hurting guild raids and they aren't leeching, those commanders and their core share the map and they can fuck off to Desert if they don't want people around, but then there wouldn't be pubs to blame when they wipe over and over.

> @"Dangus.6572" said: > I play thief for like... 8years in WvW. The only thing that needs to be removed from thief is teleport. Then DE or DrD or whoever can hide in keeps as much as they want. All teleports? Why?

> @"GreenZap.1352" said: > Ok, so I've tried playing S/D Power DD now with SB as utility and while it's flashy and looks cool spinning around and evading (and you don't die) the damage is so just low compared to my GS Reaper that it's not even fun. > > Dunno what to do with this build. I don't want to use staff really even though I'm considering it.. > Are you going for an optimal build for open world or trying to make S/D work? You can take Shadow Arts up to Cloaked in Shadow and stagger out Cloak and Dagger in crowds. I use Sigil of Draining everywhere with Tactical Strike, the blind on the front side will still leech, but it's nice with Choking Gas also. Rune of Surging is fun and can clutch heal sometimes. Rending Shade is nice if you're being alert about target buff bars and the fear can interrupt multiple targets if it goes off, and it also takes full boon stacks like Larcenous Strike, but Cloaked in Shadow is probably better overall.

I play S/D everywhere. I'd rather have S/D against challenging mobs, it can clear distance forward and back, it has an evade on top of a really good skill sequence, and Dancing Dagger is good for kiting the front of the squad/group/mob cone or on runners. Also Cloak and Dagger feels very crisp and responsive to use and can travel with other skills like Steal. I'm taking health constantly through food and interrupts though, sword/? might feel a little sluggish especially on auto, without modded secondary effects coming off of stuff you're already doing.

> @"Sansar.1302" said: > The amount of players in wvw is telling another storry, i think it is possible to keep the play styles that wvw have and make it better. > Only way to make it appeal more widely i belive is to get rid of imbalance that comes from fights with uneven numbers. I can't get into either EBG or our home BL most nights I log on. Those can be long queues because people can jump on a map and do whatever for however long they want. It's sadly not open world pvp but it's not too rigid and structured. Anything you're in a rush for or might not be able to keep up with will give you reasons to leave.

> @"Apokriphos.7042" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"Apokriphos.7042" said: > > > The biggest issue with this class in small scale roaming is the combination ranged attack specialist with heavily available stealth and evade/leaps. > > > > > > We've spoken about a better solution to stealth being 'perfect can't see me' mode. However it doesnt seem Anet balances for small scale in WvW at all. Knowing that, I think the simplest solution would be to normalize the stealth availability to changes made in pvp and compensate the DE and thief in general with more party benefits. > > > > Which ranged stealth build has heavy evades and leaps? > > Its been well established in this very thread that thieves of all flavors outclass most other builds in leap potention without cooldown. Combining it wtih easily available stealth and ranged reposition was a recipe for disaster from the start. > > The only saving grace here is that anet doesnt care about the small grp roaming game mode. That's fine you don't have to answer then.

Gift of Battle or whatever the latest story line is. I'm mostly piling up materials and map currency.

> @"Apokriphos.7042" said: > The biggest issue with this class in small scale roaming is the combination ranged attack specialist with heavily available stealth and evade/leaps. > > We've spoken about a better solution to stealth being 'perfect can't see me' mode. However it doesnt seem Anet balances for small scale in WvW at all. Knowing that, I think the simplest solution would be to normalize the stealth availability to changes made in pvp and compensate the DE and thief in general with more party benefits. Which ranged stealth build has heavy evades and leaps?

> @"Kovu.7560" said: > > @"SuchosCZ.2167" said: > > For all the thieves, that deffend stealth mechanic. Here is the counter play other classes have: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed > > > > Out of thousands skills, utilities and traits. Out of 27 professions and specializations, there is 8 skills that you can use for reveal :D ... ye, stealth mechanic is "fine". Just git gut > > Satire aside, even that isn't a defense for deadeyes as they have an ability with an ammo count that can peel revealed (and also restealth). At least daredevil and core thieves are forced to blow more of their cooldowns if revealed is applied, or be punished. Deadeyes -- not so much. Between 1,200 range, shadow meld and high reset/reposition potential through stealth on demand via dodges on top of all of the core thief stuff, its easily the least punishable thief spec that still hits as hard as the melee counterparts. Plus it's the easiest thief spec to play. Deadeye is a game of whack-a-mole that most melee specs are unlikely to win. It's also likely the best +1 spec in the game, for what that's worth. > > ~ Kovu I agree with how broken Shadow Meld is, I feel like a Deadeye Elite should provide cover for posting up in Kneel instead, but I also feel like right now basilik venom feels a lot better there. Along with Surging runes I'd rather try to flip a fight that's getting dicey than maybe drop target and bounce. Plus I can usually pop others out of stealth or at least see where they're at with venom stolen skill. Meld really does funnel a fight into less deliberate gameplay for both sides when there could be something there to energize DE's signature feature.

> @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"Mauzi.5892" said: > > > > @"appelflap.8310" said: > > > > So basically what you're saying is that infiltrator's arrow is underwhelming now after the patch? A 900 range teleport on a weapon that can be spammed 2 times in a row when full ini, even when no ini you regen 8 ini in 8 secs without the use of other initiative sources. So that's a 900 range teleport with an 8 sec cd in the worst scenario, how is that underwhelming? If this is a problem for thieves then it is a l2p issue, it means you relied on overperforming mechanics in the past. > > > > > > It is when a rev can port 600 range and do 6k dmg by the side, which can go through walls. > > > And it's also a difference how a skill is used. Deathstrike is often used aggressively and applies pressure. Whereas Infiltrator Strike is our means to get away. Which means we decided that the fight is lost for us and we use up all our initiative to do so. > > > > > > Why did it get nerfed? Because pepegas cry that "the thief got away" and they didn't "feel good". > > > > > > Then pls nerf all other mobility skills as well. Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs. > > > > > > I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps, which makes it "unfair". But even that is a stretch... but I might give it to you... > > > For WvW the change is just dumb. > > > > > > And as other said. Thieves will find another way to replace that or play some other builds or weapon sets. I'm already curious when the crying for another skill will start. > > > Maybe Sword 2? Shadowstep OP? Dash? Too much dmg? > > > > > > > > > My suggestion to all thief hater. Make one yourself and play. I bet you 1000g your view will change from "nerf OP thief plxxx" to "thief need a buff". > > > Balance is not about how good or bad you feel for winning or losing an encounter. > > > > > > > hey hey hey, who can " Most of the classes outrun or outstealth thievs. " ? > > please im really curious. > > True, that's some weird claim to make. Maybe even moreso when we notice right after that he writes > >I agree that the higher cost might be okay for sPvP, because if one team has a thief (that doesn't suck) and the other team doesn't, they can outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps > > So... other classes can outrun/outstealth (nah) thieves, but if a team has a decent thief, they can automatically "outrotate them and have easier and faster decaps". I'm not sure how these 2 claims in one post are supposed to not cancel each other out. Short bow climbing and distance is designed well for rotating points in tight line of site breaks and topography. That's not the same as trying to out run someone in WvW where walls don't always matter unless you're trying to shortbow, port, or scorp wire through invisible WvW walls or ground and where build need isn't tightly wrapped around spvp comps. And if you're not a gimmick build trolling people you'll probably get outstealthed, which isn't really a factor most of the time anyway so not a big deal. You can spend big real quick to maybe nope out but you're not out running anyone unless maybe with Dash and I think that elite dodge has too good distance. I kind of agree though, not about the speed, but the potential to spend big faster. Doesn't always work out but we have good clutch plays available.

> @"CharonXeno.4869" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"CharonXeno.4869" said: > > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > > > @"Widmo.3186" said: > > > > > To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period. > > > > FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining. > > > > > > Ok, I'm willing to learn: > > > How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)? > > > Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched. > > > > Why should another player have to tell you what class or build to play? Other classes can nope out or tank also, when I can't kill them that is all, it's not a win or loss it's just fewer bags. If they're glass then grab them when they come out of stealth so they scramble then hit them with stuff while they're in panic stealth, should be case closed. If they're tanking you, do whatever you do to other classes and builds who tank. > > Apologies, I sadly have trouble going beyond draws (at best) against most even halfway-skilled Deadeye players. I am admittedly a generally rather sub-par WvW player, I am sadly aware of that myself. > Since the other poster stated they have hours of dueling and learning how to counter I was hoping to get some hints on how to do that from them. Ah well, I shouldn't have hoped for more than generic tips like "just kill them and don't get killed". I'm not all that great either, I get like an hour, hour and half to play after work while half watching tv and talking to people. I'm not going to master every class or even remember what half of what my own stuff is called most of the time so I build to treat npcs and players everywhere the same like they're a break-bar boss with adds that I have to react to in real time. I could pull off some legit thief stuff but I know I'll probably need a good multipurpose and effect tool like scorpion wire and I could take something fun like Shadow Meld on my DE but I know I'll need to pop someones stealth or ping them on the map with Basilik Venom and Stolen Skill, and those kind of choices are largely made based on our servers matchups. I've posted the advice I'd give you on other threads but that's only going by my critter brain that wants to live make gold, thief forum has a few threads on your scenario with responses by people who know what they're talking about.

> @"CharonXeno.4869" said: > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > @"Widmo.3186" said: > > > To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period. > > FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining. > > Ok, I'm willing to learn: > How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)? > Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched. Why should another player have to tell you what class or build to play? Other classes can nope out or tank also, when I can't kill them that is all, it's not a win or loss it's just fewer bags. If they're glass then grab them when they come out of stealth so they scramble then hit them with stuff while they're in panic stealth, should be case closed. If they're tanking you, do whatever you do to other classes and builds who tank.

> @"uberkingkong.8041" said: > Quit or camp flip, thats your options when UNSTOPPABLE zerg makes your server not even active anymore. Sure you may find pugs that coordinate with you. There's no such thing as an unstoppable zerg. Your server isn't active because they're just not a lot of active people. Do enough to keep participation up and then go look for fights, what do you care about points? Your people who still hang around on your server will tag along if they see others floating around looking for something to do. Get your xp boosters and banners, throw up a tag for solo players who are doing their own thing or grouping up for some stuff so you can use Alert Target for each other to read map and area activity, and go take a bite out of that zerg.

WvW isn't open world pvp, it's a large spvp match without the stat regulation. People don't have any reason to go to obscure parts and edges of a map or just wander around, especially if they only have an hour or two to play, prime time or not. Any non group composition buff or debuff can be exploited with good timing and coordination. If people want a less pigeon holed WvW, people in general need to build for handling more things instead of of funneling their build into one sweat gotcha moment or just be okay with what we have right now. You want open world pvp that GW2 doesn't have.

> @"Mikhael.2391" said: > > @"Za Shaloc.3908" said: > > Lol great video. The most fun I have in WvW is when I am trolling like that. Whenever I am outnumbered and near any elevation, I like to bring out my Ventari bubble and spam the knockback on people. Watching this vid makes me want to go to RBL more often. > > RDB is my favorite border as long as there is action there I like scorpion wire everywhere but SM, nothing works well in SM, but you really have to keep yourself up to date when you cross glider zone in Desert especially anything surrounding Air.

I would like to have an E-spec that would have new and also change current skills to have directional, cone, and radius attacks that behave a little differently depending on how we move, pivot, or pan camera-look that can sort of chain together by momentum or timing. Sort of like how I can pull people a little differently once I connect scorpion wire sometimes with a little camera work, or how you would move to swing and fight in Skyrim/Elderscrolls.