kash.9213

I think the more you play this game the faster you'll fit into a change of keybinds. GW2 is pretty good about not giving us a book full of keybinds we have to set, I have pretty much everything within reach without having to lift off much. If there's a skill or action you want to use a lot but have been stumbling with Left Ctrl is a good spot for panic buttons. I put my dual skill there because it's easy to just lean my bottom left palm down a little without any lift off when I need to stagger evades and dodges through a squad or something and it feels fluid like an arcade fighter.

> @"Tridentuk.1625" said: > @Strider.7849 > Oooh that's a juicy tip about the cursor. Thanks. He's talking about the Yolomouse cursor that I mentioned. Definitely try it out, but I think it doesn't help much and it more often made my view worse. I think people who are effective and use it are just effective, not because they use it. The only actual use I got out of it was I had set the background color of the cursor that hovering over targeted walls in wvw would show with that weird infrared color because hard to see siege equipment would give a better outline through it. Give it a shot though and read the instructions so you can set a few that might work for you.

I really like the way p/d plays but I'm too lazy to put together another set. Nice build roll out at the start. And I like your target turning and facing, it left you good lanes to mess around in or to push or bug out. Edit: The times you've seen someone go into stealth and your Jedi senses (experience) told you exactly where they'd be and you turn and shift just right to tag them with CnD, maybe try to feel that. Like play CnD as if it were untargeted even while targeted, just have to make sure you don't let yourself target pivot. If you're carrying it over on a port maybe just start pressing it a split second before port launches and see if it ends right at target contact to get past the swing when you get there. > @"babazhook.6805" said: > One thing I do not have down as well as you is that CnD. I tend to whiff mine more :)

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said: > > @"VICBEAR.1529" said: > > This is what I want to show crying boys. None of them do not play thief because in this role they can not kill anyone. > > This is reason why they play One-shot Ranger, One-dot Revinant, One-Whirl Warrior etc. > > > > Also, they cry about uber mobily of thief. > > This is myth in present days that was true in maybe 2014. > > Today there are many classes more mobile than thief: Engineer, Warrior, Ranger, Mesmer, Elementalist. > > AND ATTENTION! They do damage when thief should make choice between mobility or damage. > > > > The advantage that thief has is stealth. But not only thief has stealth! > > Moreover, many classes can detect you in stealth: > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed > > > > So, create topic "Please delete thief class" and I hope ANet will totally nerf thief because > > I've wanted to start playing for a long time ranger/engineer. > > A bit salty' ain't we? > > Nah not true about them classes being "more". Engie/holo, ranger can be built to be highly mobile but that requires certain builds and set ups, thief will 90% of the time have short bow steal and shadow step. I'm sure more thieves would like to put shortbow away and slot something other than Shadowstep but that's as much of a choice as those other classes having to build into mobility. People who claim only toxic players play thief for those one or two builds is the real salt if you want to go there. Most people play thief for the tactile feel of the class in general and get funneled into builds and kits out of necessity until they progress enough to stretch a bit.

> @"Hackuuna.4085" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > It's why the class is in such a desperate need for a rework; it's only strong because of very specific combinations and playstyles. As soon as that build and playstyle pattern is deviated from, the class becomes basically unusable in the modern powercreeped game. > > Sadly, that's why ANet cut the number of dodges on mirage to just one. The potential combinatorial power of dodges with the mirage playstyle was simply overwhelming. They had a choice of either reworking the class, or rendering it obsolete. I won't be surprised if the things you mentioned being too strong in combination become obsolete eventually (or maybe DD thief will get the one dodge treatment lol). If they don't rework some elements of that general build then I'd rather it just be made obsolete for a minute and dev attention payed to traits, kits, and resource pools a little. There are some thresholds I run into on my non DrD builds in WvW and when I'm feeling the pressure of needing to perform for my team I'm likely to fall back on the powerhouse. - I find that my builds need to hit either around 17k health on the low end to put the rest into pressure but then I'm likely to switch to d/p or s/d Daredeveil/Dash to keep squads or groups up while also being able to actually fight. While it doesn't feel as crisp as my other builds there are some trait and other choices that can adjust that build template for different tasks which is another thing it has going for it. - Or I'll go up to around 20k and let Power suffer a bit for crit chance and also hope I can leech enough to pressure a little. I can float around more but the build has to funnel a little into one gimmick or the other. I can take a hit and I can hit kind of hard but that's if I can keep up or I can budget and stagger to stay ahead of the fight but I might not have the stopping power. - I also have to make Utility bar choices on my other builds where those slots are more free with d/p and dash already providing a good deal of that utility. At this point I just don't use the that dash build anymore because then I'm likely to get stuck in a long ass fight plugging holes but you feel it when you're on other builds and you're missing out on a utility or threshold.

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said: > @"kash.9213" fundamental error there... i don't smallscale at all, but i killed several roamers with bombs of my largescalecharacters. i help people defending camps if i feel like it, and nah, i don't adapt my set for that. drop dmg, dodge incoming dmg... that's doing it mostly. > > idk if y o u build for ganking. thieves maybe do kinda stuff, surely. > > that has absolutely nothing to do about beeing in Wvw. the pvE people in there build even for nothing at all. some run likely the same sets they used for completing their storymode. > > when i run in a big group, i do that bc i expect other big groups around. if u think u'll not get bombed as roamer trying to poke that, that is not ganking. that's punishing cockyness. **zergsets are not built for ganking**. they are built to be effective, either dmg/heal/strips/cleanse, and to do their job in a big impact. > > @"Gotejjeken.1267" stab gets burnt away if too much cc comes in (or its duration ends). that's why even minstrel FB can get cc+entagled/dazed etc That's why we get a lot of dumb posts on this forum.

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said: > that scenario was purely fictional, as mentioned... (and answer to the guy who posted sth alike) i simply don't do smallscale skirmish with thiefs unless i have a safe out, like a portal or cliff and enough stab+stunbreak off cd. > ... usually they just run anyways when they realize u don't run away blindly so they can/could backstab u in peace. > > **and no, there's no way i'd adapt my set for just a thief. or any other roamer.** they nearly never come alone anyways and u won't be able to build for ganks nor have the time to react if that happens. especially not with the useless warkitty, which is helping every glasscannon by having no armor and leave the dismounted person additionally dazed. What do you mean by that? Of course you will adapt your build to those and everything else. You'll build for "ganks" also like everyone else. Why are you in WvW if you're not building for all of that?

> @"Gotejjeken.1267" said: > Think there just needs to be some more reveal ability added to most classes and a way to reliably CC evades. The latter will be super tricky as it'd effect all classes, but the dodge / teleport spam is getting a little ridiculous from a few classes now. > > Since most of these discussions devolve into thief vs. ranger (as far as balance goes), have a few suggestions from that standpoint... > > As a suggestion, I think Druid for instance is actually in a good place, one that could be used as a model for thief. You can be tanky and you have quite a bit of immob ability, but don't have the power to really kill anything with a decent cleanse. In that way, it plays similar role to thief, where you exist to harrass and +1, and can win most 1v1's against inexperienced players, but get doubled up or have anyone with access to CC spam of their own and you are up a creek. Druid to me is more thoughtful in general though, as there is no real instant escape button--you have celestial shadow but must give up other good utilities (verdant etching) to get it. > > **What I'm saying is, I think the thief has too many escape buttons and therefore does not encourage thoughtful play.** It currently is like Soulbeast, where a lot of the times a SB can stack protection and stability and power through most things at 1500 range--if you get close they switch to GS and run. In a group you'll never catch them, and it's such a braindead unbalanced way to play. Thief is same, has both stealth, stunbreaks, cc mitagations, etc. with no real tradeoff other than the super low HP / armor if they happen to fall asleep for a bit. Take all of those "escape buttons" on your weapon kit and utility bar out onto a map for awhile. Then when you rage quit those because they're not passive and you still need to fight you can go back to a normal build like most thieves have and you might think about staggering your mitigation and resources and just being careful in general, which will be told by the other player as an invincible thief story but whatever. Then you can laugh at the forums whenever someone comes on here and claims a thief can spam stealth, evades, and teleports constantly while you stress over your build that never fits in enough of what you need.

- I have Right Mouse for pan camera and I don't have it set to select targets since I like to use RM for de-targeting in a screen corner when I need to. - I take targets with Left Mouse click mostly but also along with Tab targeting. I use them together because I might need to dart between a few targets and I can keep looking at the nearest target while also peeking at a few others I see plotting. - You want to use one or the other depending on line of site and invisible walls/objects. - It might feel odd for awhile but think of it like your reticle in first person shooters. - I don't use Yolomouse cursor either, I feel like that gets in the way even though the default cursor can get lost if you're not tuned in to feeling where it's at yet.

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said: > i'm talking about 4 medicore players versus two mediocre thieves... that's what happens, seen it enough times. > > __ > hope u know that this is a plain lie. maybe if we talk about roamerfights only, yeah... but who runs around in all engages on spvp gear/build. i still kill roamers regularly using zergsets, bc often u cannot just swap in time or it's not necessary even. > > again, firebrands could kill stuff before, now impossible. hammer herald lost two big sources of aoe dmg that aren't even fast. i killed some thieves alone with hits on that before... now they can tank a direct hit of hammer 2 or hammer 3 even... > > scrouge has a good position bc it has dmg fields, warrior and scrapper are also played as support and therefore can only cc + run away... > > theif and ranger have very fast attack followups. for that fact their dps is still very high. (while for example, hammer 5 on rev is extremly slow... if we talk about predictable, that is what would be a way better example than any class that can hit out of stealth) So, I had this problem where I could kill stuff fast but I'd keep dropping just before I could bounce. So what I did was I adjusted my stats, then fights were a little different after that. After adjusting my stats, some fights became easier and others more difficult. So, before I slam my face into a group or squad or anything else I'll take my time and check out buffs and actions and combat log between fights. If you think they have very fast follow up attacks, watch the animations or effects to know what they're doing and what you can do about it and see what it is in combat log. It might be something you can pressure them into budgeting poorly on which is very likely something that happened even in your examples but you decided they were overpowered and let it be. DPS might be high or might not but what's going to lite you up fast is being dismantled, striped of all the flak like boons where even the chunkiest health bar will burn to slotted and traited secondary mods like damage or leech on interrupts in a flash. One of your two mystery DE's probably would have bailed on the other or at least been shook after even one pull and stop into your group.

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > > > > > I'd be cool with that if there were a secondary channeled mode of it that turned it into a faster roll on the ground for about 900 distance but take out damage or something. That kit is a pain to make work, there's always some big compromise in traits or utility that just doesn't warrant it over other kits and builds. > > > > > > > > Honestly? > > > > The **problem people have** with Dagger/Dagger isn't mobility at all, which I've also considered so in the past. > > > > > > > > It's the inability to access Stealth without hitting a target. > > > > > > > > D/P is just all the wonderful things : can Access Stealth anywhere and has a 900 range gap closer, and the gap closer does do some respectable damage. > > > > > > > > I don't really wish to see D/D become something to "compete with D/P" in the same aspects, but I rather D/D be more supportive of a Melee fighter style, with Cleaves etc. > > > > It's not like they have no mobility, people have been using Heartseeker spam to move around for awhile now. > > > > And besides, no one is stopping Thief from using Shadowstep Signet, which thieves have been using back in the old days to gap close from 2000 range away. > > > > > > > > Thieves could definitely use a good cleave for pve and wvw anyway. > > > > > > > > Here's another fun idea though, which I know all Thieves will reject with their life : > > > > **This new cleave skill I've proposed replaces Heartseeker as Dagger 2, and Heartseeker becomes Dagger/Dagger 3** > > > > Goodbye D/P > > > > > > > > #;9 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually do think that they ought to remove either the leap from heartseeker, or make leaps through smoke fields do something other than stealth. If they did that, D/P SA DD and permastealth DE would be a LOT more manageable, and it would pave the way for buffs that don't just make those two specs stupidly OP in return. D/P is perfectly viable when played with less stealth access (HoT DA/trick/DD D/P meta for instance), so it's not like losing that will kill the kit outright. > > > > > > > They would be unplayable. D/P in HoT worked without stealth because it had pulmonary impact to work off of, a strong trait incentivising headshots. That trait is currently unplayable. So remove the leap finisher, and D/P just becomes a vastly inferior S/D weaponset, not that that one is good to begin with. It *will* kill the kit outright. > > > > > On topic; in WvW, D/D either needs the damage to be an assassin set, or it needs more mobility somehow to make it better in a longer fight. At the moment it doesn't have the damage, and D/P outclasses it both in movement and in defensive potential through blinds and interrupts. It had a niche but it has lost it through progressive nerfs over the years, it either needs damage nerfs reverted or it needs a rework. > > > > If Death Blossom was less clunky (or expensive) and had some damage the power build could use, it would be a much better defensive set than D/P. Evades are a lot more valuable than blinds and interrupts for defense. It never really had a niche precisely because death blossom sucks and because it lacks mobility. > > That was the point of me saying that it'd pave the way for buffs without making D/P even more OP. Stuff like making PI actually useable was part of what I meant by that. I could go with a quick non stackable stealth comparable to the Silent Scope duration for stealth off of leaps, or they could bake more stealth into skills or traits like Silent Scope dodge or Cloak and Dagger.

> @"saerni.2584" said: > > @"Daemonjax.7813" said: > > I rarely bother using P/D's CnD anymore because of the high initiative cost -- gotta stay in stealth as long as possible to recoup 2+ pips of initiative, so it just makes the fight take longer. This is probably because I'm playing hybrid condi. Sometimes I use it just for fun. You can kill stuff _eventually_ with just CnD by chaining them -- not using sneak attack at all, and just CnD again the moment stealth runs out. Takes forever, but it's fun sometimes to time it just right. > > It depends on your exact build and what you're doing with it (PvE or WvW or sPvP). But you can use it for stealth access for another Sneak Attack and it's generally worth it if you need to wait out a projectile block/reflect, so there are both defensive and offensive advantages. > > Using CnD effectively is the hard part for X/D **because of how close you need to be** and how much it costs. It is a good tool but you need to manage your initiative and not miss. That's the hard part but also the convenient part in larger fights where we can't combo something to stealth and it helps that it's such a classic feeling skill that's fluid to use.

Thinking about having some fight in a build while walking out of something is fair and does a solid for your team. You can strip a boon or whatever real quick and pull maybe.

> @"Vancho.8750" said: > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > @"reikken.4961" said: > > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said: > > > > REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE > > > > you lie, backscratch deals 2k REEEE > > > > shadowshot even less, REEE > > > > if you think otherwise you are wrong, if you have proof its fabricated REEE > > > > > > I can't tell if you're being facetious or not > > > in case you're not, shadow shot usually does about 5k to non-heavies > > > heartseeker about 7k if it downs the guy. have gotten some 9ks, but those are rare, and always overkill > > > > I have tried to be overly sarcastic > Someone reported some of our posts, man and they got deleted. The funny thing is that they are in quotes and seem to be important to the thread, this kitten is too funny. **Also it is funny** that thieves mains report people, on a troll thread, this is too rich. > You've typed up a small book so far full of angst, edginess, and false derision in this one troll thread. I don't think you find any of it funny. You seem to be super serious about it all like someone pushed a button. I hope you find some peace so you can escape the lowly thief forum.

> @"ASP.8093" said: > "Being really good at running away" is, like, the entire roaming meta. Only difference is some classes also have strong sustain. We all used to have fall damage modifiers even, it was an intended aspect of combat in the games design.

> @"Armen.1483" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > If we talk about PVE: Well don't get me wrong but first of all in places where boon thief works it is ridiculously OP if we talk about raids. Nothing is as strong as a boon thief where it is playable. Ofc you can't use it on every boss fight tho, or that would be ridiculous. Meanwhile in qadim fights it is hard to imagine squads without thieves. Game literally foces you to play thief on pylons. So Thief got it's own niche. Other than that you have pure dps DD that does the 2nd best dps on golem (39k/s). Ofc same as 1st place dps (chrono) it depends on many things to pull off that sweet DPS in real fights. Drawback is that you got no cleave nor utilities when you play thief and it is has an extremely difficult rotation. > > > > > WVW: lol, thief is the best roamer, nuff said > > > > > PVP: Learn to play. Thief controls maps and carries games, no nerfs can change that. Stop being stupid and 1v1ing scrappers and crying it is a class problem. > > > > > Said it many times before by many ppl: THIEF IS FINE !!! > > > > > > > > PVE: too bad BT is only usable on few bosses. Outside of damage thief brings nearly nothing to raids. Chrono is example of absolute absurdity and favoritism as far as raiding goes. On my mes i can get into any group: i can tank, i can dps (both power and condi), i can provide quickness, i can provide alac if needed, the record for cairn is held... by 10 mesmers. Despite all this perks that chrono offers it is also highest dps in raids. Meanwhile a class that basically brings nothing to the group brings average damage in most encounters. You don't need DE for pylon, it is nice and it is common practice but you don't need it. Same goes in fact for BT. In WoW for example rogue also didn't bring much to the table but in the time i played it was pretty much the highest dps in raids, you would be a fool not to bring one. In GW2? All i get from Anet: please delete your thief, tnx, bye xoxo. I agree with OP: if thief is supposed to be useless piece of -insert a lot of kittens here- as far as utility/support/survivability goes then it should at least have highest dps in real fights (lol @ golems), power AND condi. > > > > > > > > WvW: you get insta kicked from squads and flamed if you join one. So ofc all thives gonna do is roam - they are not allowed to do anything else. I do not think that roaming thieves are really that great. Successfully killing some upscaled undergeared enemies is hardly definition of strong. > > > > > > > > PvP: yeah, thief is so OP... oh, excuse me, "FINE" atm that i have been the ONLY thief in the 99% of the matches i have done this season. But every match i have multiple necros and guards - because thief is so OP, guize. Just git gut. Can't kill anyone with more than 2 brain cells but thief is fine, guize. Because i said so. Can't hold a point by design but thief is fine, guize. Mobility got nerfed so many times that your average guard/holo can keep up with you but thief is fine, guize. Also, get reported because you dare to play thief and not reroll. Yes, it happens. But thief is fine, guize. > > > > > > > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > > > If we talk about PVE: Well don't get me wrong but first of all in places where boon thief works it is ridiculously OP if we talk about raids. Nothing is as strong as a boon thief where it is playable. Ofc you can't use it on every boss fight tho, or that would be ridiculous. Meanwhile in qadim fights it is hard to imagine squads without thieves. Game literally foces you to play thief on pylons. So Thief got it's own niche. Other than that you have pure dps DD that does the 2nd best dps on golem (39k/s). Ofc same as 1st place dps (chrono) it depends on many things to pull off that sweet DPS in real fights. Drawback is that you got no cleave nor utilities when you play thief and it is has an extremely difficult rotation. > > > > > WVW: lol, thief is the best roamer, nuff said > > > > > PVP: Learn to play. Thief controls maps and carries games, no nerfs can change that. Stop being stupid and 1v1ing scrappers and crying it is a class problem. > > > > > Said it many times before by many ppl: THIEF IS FINE !!! > > > > > > > > PVE: too bad BT is only usable on few bosses. Outside of damage thief brings nearly nothing to raids. Chrono is example of absolute absurdity and favoritism as far as raiding goes. On my mes i can get into any group: i can tank, i can dps (both power and condi), i can provide quickness, i can provide alac if needed, the record for cairn is held... by 10 mesmers. Despite all this perks that chrono offers it is also highest dps in raids. Meanwhile a class that basically brings nothing to the group brings average damage in most encounters. You don't need DE for pylon, it is nice and it is common practice but you don't need it. Same goes in fact for BT. In WoW for example rogue also didn't bring much to the table but in the time i played it was pretty much the highest dps in raids, you would be a fool not to bring one. In GW2? All i get from Anet: please delete your thief, tnx, bye xoxo. I agree with OP: if thief is supposed to be useless piece of -insert a lot of kittens here- as far as utility/support/survivability goes then it should at least have highest dps in real fights (lol @ golems), power AND condi. > > > > > > > > WvW: you get insta kicked from squads and flamed if you join one. So ofc all thives gonna do is roam - they are not allowed to do anything else. I do not think that roaming thieves are really that great. Successfully killing some upscaled undergeared enemies is hardly definition of strong. > > > > > > > > PvP: yeah, thief is so OP... oh, excuse me, "FINE" atm that i have been the ONLY thief in the 99% of the matches i have done this season. But every match i have multiple necros and guards - because thief is so OP, guize. Just git gut. Can't kill anyone with more than 2 brain cells but thief is fine, guize. Because i said so. Can't hold a point by design but thief is fine, guize. Mobility got nerfed so many times that your average guard/holo can keep up with you but thief is fine, guize. Also, get reported because you dare to play thief and not reroll. Yes, it happens. But thief is fine, guize. > > > > > > Apart from raiding you can do nothing on chrono. If you are having problems in PVP or WVW with thief, mesmer would be much worse for you. Meanwhile against all odds I see many mesmers "replace" thieves nowdays in PVP. This is because of forum posts like this. People actually believed that thief is garbage and stopped playing it. Hell it is even more fun, more mesmers I see as a thief, better for me, it is free real estate. You don't need to compare thief to chrono or a guardian anyway. Especially in PVE. Ofc boon thief is even stronger than those. It is like mirage: works on 4 bosses but it is brokenly overpowered. Same with dps thief just look at this: https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ Power DD, which is a lil weaker than deadeye does around 36k on golem on single target but stronger at cleaving when you need that. And ofc very good CC. So you already got 7 raid bosses where thief is not just very good, but META, in other places yes it is kinda mediocre if you compare to guardians or mesmers, but in any means not bad. I often end up top DPS on power daredevil (deadeye is just too hard to play, it has same issue as condi weaver), so I am pretty sure it is not a class problem if you fail to fill in raid groups, because me and many other thief players do it with great success. Stop whining, and rock it. Good luck wiht playing thief. Stay positive and don't be like others. Every subforum in professions whine about their classes, it is lame. > > > > > > > Maybe a bit off topic but are there a lot of people raiding? I never hear about raids and GW2 videos on youtube and twitch are usually spvp, wvw, and open world. Are you sure what seems like earning a META slot isn't just the overall need to fill slots, it seems like the only two raid builds I've seen for thieves are almost entirely dependent on other classes generating conditions and boons to reach any threshold. As fun as those builds might be under perfect conditions, that's a pretty narrow fit for a class that already narrowly fits into most game modes. > > Yes there are many people raiding up until now. Mostly people do guild runs nowdays so they are not very much visible. MightyTeapot does streams a lot when raiding, I was in his streams so many times, he likes joining random groups while streaming. > > You are right about thief tho, it depends on UNIQUE condis same as DH virtue build depends on UNIQUE boons to deal tons of damage. That is why thief has a very high potential of doing very good damage but it depends on the teamcomp. But I wouldn't say it is extremely suboptimal to play thief even if some condis are missing, if you have good amount of different condis on boss, you are good to go at least on staff daredevil. If your group sucks at cc you go Daredevil too. I wouldn't recommend Deadeye (apart from pilon kiting) because it is very dependant on kneel and makes the game very difficult to play but you will have slightly more dps. > I wouldn't agree with your last statement though. People were talking about chronomancer here. Chrono is only playable in Raids ( no pvp, no wvw and not fractals either). It is same thing with power dps chronomancer, he depends on slow condi which is very rare. Without slow chrono does much less damage and need to change gear. But it doesn't bother chrono players to go and play chrono when groups are suboptimal for them, that's why you see them so much. 90% of pug runs run suboptimal teamcomps for chrono. Unless your group has a condi rev or all dps players are chronos, the so much beloved chrono is very suboptmal dps. What I like to think is being a skilled player and compensate the suboptimal class dps loss with optimal rotations and pure skill. > And lastly let's not forget boon thief where it is playable (it depends on bosses that give you plasma). People should play more boon thief, it is very good. I played around Premeditation and boon steal in WvW for a long time awhile ago, it was passable on my own but against players I can steal full stacks. Still it was nice when floating around squads, friendly and badguy sources at the same time in big fights could really load you up.

> @"Armen.1483" said: > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > If we talk about PVE: Well don't get me wrong but first of all in places where boon thief works it is ridiculously OP if we talk about raids. Nothing is as strong as a boon thief where it is playable. Ofc you can't use it on every boss fight tho, or that would be ridiculous. Meanwhile in qadim fights it is hard to imagine squads without thieves. Game literally foces you to play thief on pylons. So Thief got it's own niche. Other than that you have pure dps DD that does the 2nd best dps on golem (39k/s). Ofc same as 1st place dps (chrono) it depends on many things to pull off that sweet DPS in real fights. Drawback is that you got no cleave nor utilities when you play thief and it is has an extremely difficult rotation. > > > WVW: lol, thief is the best roamer, nuff said > > > PVP: Learn to play. Thief controls maps and carries games, no nerfs can change that. Stop being stupid and 1v1ing scrappers and crying it is a class problem. > > > Said it many times before by many ppl: THIEF IS FINE !!! > > > > PVE: too bad BT is only usable on few bosses. Outside of damage thief brings nearly nothing to raids. Chrono is example of absolute absurdity and favoritism as far as raiding goes. On my mes i can get into any group: i can tank, i can dps (both power and condi), i can provide quickness, i can provide alac if needed, the record for cairn is held... by 10 mesmers. Despite all this perks that chrono offers it is also highest dps in raids. Meanwhile a class that basically brings nothing to the group brings average damage in most encounters. You don't need DE for pylon, it is nice and it is common practice but you don't need it. Same goes in fact for BT. In WoW for example rogue also didn't bring much to the table but in the time i played it was pretty much the highest dps in raids, you would be a fool not to bring one. In GW2? All i get from Anet: please delete your thief, tnx, bye xoxo. I agree with OP: if thief is supposed to be useless piece of -insert a lot of kittens here- as far as utility/support/survivability goes then it should at least have highest dps in real fights (lol @ golems), power AND condi. > > > > WvW: you get insta kicked from squads and flamed if you join one. So ofc all thives gonna do is roam - they are not allowed to do anything else. I do not think that roaming thieves are really that great. Successfully killing some upscaled undergeared enemies is hardly definition of strong. > > > > PvP: yeah, thief is so OP... oh, excuse me, "FINE" atm that i have been the ONLY thief in the 99% of the matches i have done this season. But every match i have multiple necros and guards - because thief is so OP, guize. Just git gut. Can't kill anyone with more than 2 brain cells but thief is fine, guize. Because i said so. Can't hold a point by design but thief is fine, guize. Mobility got nerfed so many times that your average guard/holo can keep up with you but thief is fine, guize. Also, get reported because you dare to play thief and not reroll. Yes, it happens. But thief is fine, guize. > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said: > > > @"Armen.1483" said: > > > If we talk about PVE: Well don't get me wrong but first of all in places where boon thief works it is ridiculously OP if we talk about raids. Nothing is as strong as a boon thief where it is playable. Ofc you can't use it on every boss fight tho, or that would be ridiculous. Meanwhile in qadim fights it is hard to imagine squads without thieves. Game literally foces you to play thief on pylons. So Thief got it's own niche. Other than that you have pure dps DD that does the 2nd best dps on golem (39k/s). Ofc same as 1st place dps (chrono) it depends on many things to pull off that sweet DPS in real fights. Drawback is that you got no cleave nor utilities when you play thief and it is has an extremely difficult rotation. > > > WVW: lol, thief is the best roamer, nuff said > > > PVP: Learn to play. Thief controls maps and carries games, no nerfs can change that. Stop being stupid and 1v1ing scrappers and crying it is a class problem. > > > Said it many times before by many ppl: THIEF IS FINE !!! > > > > PVE: too bad BT is only usable on few bosses. Outside of damage thief brings nearly nothing to raids. Chrono is example of absolute absurdity and favoritism as far as raiding goes. On my mes i can get into any group: i can tank, i can dps (both power and condi), i can provide quickness, i can provide alac if needed, the record for cairn is held... by 10 mesmers. Despite all this perks that chrono offers it is also highest dps in raids. Meanwhile a class that basically brings nothing to the group brings average damage in most encounters. You don't need DE for pylon, it is nice and it is common practice but you don't need it. Same goes in fact for BT. In WoW for example rogue also didn't bring much to the table but in the time i played it was pretty much the highest dps in raids, you would be a fool not to bring one. In GW2? All i get from Anet: please delete your thief, tnx, bye xoxo. I agree with OP: if thief is supposed to be useless piece of -insert a lot of kittens here- as far as utility/support/survivability goes then it should at least have highest dps in real fights (lol @ golems), power AND condi. > > > > WvW: you get insta kicked from squads and flamed if you join one. So ofc all thives gonna do is roam - they are not allowed to do anything else. I do not think that roaming thieves are really that great. Successfully killing some upscaled undergeared enemies is hardly definition of strong. > > > > PvP: yeah, thief is so OP... oh, excuse me, "FINE" atm that i have been the ONLY thief in the 99% of the matches i have done this season. But every match i have multiple necros and guards - because thief is so OP, guize. Just git gut. Can't kill anyone with more than 2 brain cells but thief is fine, guize. Because i said so. Can't hold a point by design but thief is fine, guize. Mobility got nerfed so many times that your average guard/holo can keep up with you but thief is fine, guize. Also, get reported because you dare to play thief and not reroll. Yes, it happens. But thief is fine, guize. > > Apart from raiding you can do nothing on chrono. If you are having problems in PVP or WVW with thief, mesmer would be much worse for you. Meanwhile against all odds I see many mesmers "replace" thieves nowdays in PVP. This is because of forum posts like this. People actually believed that thief is garbage and stopped playing it. Hell it is even more fun, more mesmers I see as a thief, better for me, it is free real estate. You don't need to compare thief to chrono or a guardian anyway. Especially in PVE. Ofc boon thief is even stronger than those. It is like mirage: works on 4 bosses but it is brokenly overpowered. Same with dps thief just look at this: https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/ Power DD, which is a lil weaker than deadeye does around 36k on golem on single target but stronger at cleaving when you need that. And ofc very good CC. So you already got 7 raid bosses where thief is not just very good, but META, in other places yes it is kinda mediocre if you compare to guardians or mesmers, but in any means not bad. I often end up top DPS on power daredevil (deadeye is just too hard to play, it has same issue as condi weaver), so I am pretty sure it is not a class problem if you fail to fill in raid groups, because me and many other thief players do it with great success. Stop whining, and rock it. Good luck wiht playing thief. Stay positive and don't be like others. Every subforum in professions whine about their classes, it is lame. > Maybe a bit off topic but are there a lot of people raiding? I never hear about raids and GW2 videos on youtube and twitch are usually spvp, wvw, and open world. Are you sure what seems like earning a META slot isn't just the overall need to fill slots, it seems like the only two raid builds I've seen for thieves are almost entirely dependent on other classes generating conditions and boons to reach any threshold. As fun as those builds might be under perfect conditions, that's a pretty narrow fit for a class that already narrowly fits into most game modes.

> @"anduriell.6280" said: > > @"mrt.7813" said: > > Hello friends > > > > I've been playing since 2013 This is lately the thieves got into the game > > > > How is it logic to fly 3000 range using a skill? > > shotbow 5 time needs to be added > > invisibility times need to be reduced > > Keep / Gari Hiding Members Always non-stop. > > 10 people run after a thief now it has become cancer-like I do not understand > > what should we players do? I push logical explanation Regulations must come to thieves. > > > > we know the logic for thief but not that much When it comes 2 3, it goes out of range in 1 2 seconds no class like this If you run away and recover, dive behind you in 1 or 2 seconds and make waves, the crime here is in the areanenet team. > > > > 10 people run after a thief now it has become cancer-like I do not understand > > what should we players do? I push logical explanation Regulations must come to thieves. we eventually have to swear or insult the games! > > > > Best regards > > > > The easiest approach will be to remove stacking stealth. All the Teleports should not ignore terrain, so a thief can not teleport to another platform. > > Stacking Stealth is a fun mechanic for map travel and setting things up and is mostly fine. Allowing Stealth Attacks to be active for the entire duration is broken. Allowing dropping combat within a Stealth stack duration is broken and compounded by not giving even a filtered visual of the stealth player within proximity surrounding a Stealth Attack. Otherwise, stealth stacking is fine. So you want to take out or change any skill that can allow players to scale topography, why? It's totally fair and even Scorpion wire can pull another thief right back down, or a gap closing skill. What kind of game are you trying to dumb this down to?

I don't know what the raid or fractal builds are but you probably manage Initiative in pve with M7 if you want to take something other than Trickery. Maybe grab a build from metabattle.com or something to build out from as a baseline for stats and stuff because I think you don't have a lot of health or power and it doesn't look like ferocity and precision gained from that. You should get to 100% crit chance after fury to push ferocity damage and fill up Malice fast. I usually just take Trickery because you get a traited Steal whenever Mark is ready which can be often with kill rate or utility.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > So unless you're going to suggest a mechanic that bypasses the mount health and strikes a player's health directly, or that simply does enough damage to overpower the opponent in one shot, it will achieve nothing. And even if it did, frankly, the way DE burst before the Feb patch was plain unhealthy for the game, I don't really want to see a return to that. I'd rather see a more useful set of rifle 2 and 3 skills so that spamming standing rifle 2 for malice isn't always the best choice, and so the 3 skills aren't damage dealers, but so they do something else that sets up the opponent for the spike. That would make DE gameplay far less spammy while not overpowering or breaking it in the process. > > I blame Ini mechanic and Malice mechanic combined for creating a "spammy" identity for DE. > Malice is essential for a DE to deal their "sniper's shot" with DJ, and Ini is basically a cooldown bypass which facilitates Malice generation. > > All of this just creates a "Sniper" with a bottomless clip which shoots really fast and deals high damage. > > Also, I think that DEs in general need to be forced into Kneel for high damage. > It's a mechanic provided, but it endangers the DE often. > > I actually kinda miss the risk back when DE has to kneel in order to use DJ. > The idea is to run around without Kneel and build malice, flank the opponent with a Kneel and open a DJ on them. There does need to be a shift away from spray and pray to build malice and stealth scramble with Meld and whatever, DE has kind of turned from Rainbow Six to Fortnite. I had suggested before maybe turning Kneel into Crouch for very slow movement but can still settle in to a spot with enhanced skill modes like Kneel does right now. Then We could get an Elite that sets up a small radius of stuff to cover us while we're posting up for better shots. Or the Elite can be a heavier shot that we can load up and hitting it again fires so we can set up something smarter (even it's its more utility and modifiers to open a target up) instead of having to chase someone around trying to tag them for malice only to have to try to get off a DJ right away before the Marked target disappears.

Towline/Hooked Spear and Scorpion Wire staggered out are nice underwater and to pull in land lovers who are jogging by. I usually use Harpoon gun for fast travel and to hit structure canons or something then Spear to roll around with, every skill on it is awesome. Your normal build should be fine, just think about what you'll need on your utility bar like area blind, evade back, and ports. Try to drag people and adds into a cone for Nine Tailed Strike when you can and think about what blinds and interrupts or whatever if your build has the synergy.

That's a really bad list OP, kind of hard to get past that.

> @"anduriell.6280" said: > > @"ASP.8093" said: > > A lot of these complaints boil down to "5-10 of us can't CC-spam a thief to death because as soon as we start, the thief Shadowsteps away and then runs fast." There's no semblance of a fight here, just "give bag now." > > Well no class should be able to disengage from 5-10 enemies after being CC'ed as the norm. most other classes would be done for and i have to admit the Thief is very forgiving in that regard. > > That's why everybody things thief is the ez class with no skill needed, if you mess up you have too many "oh kitten" buttons. Any class should be able to shake 5-10 people if they build for that instead of face planting blobs. Thief will explode faster than other classes and builds, rewarded risk isn't the same as being more forgiving. Very few thief builds have potential to be broken and they should be addressed, but don't try to make it sound like making any thief is some kind of inherent advantage.

> @"anduriell.6280" said: > > @"Yasai.3549" said: > > > @"PrinceValentine.9320" said: > > > I saw someone on Map Chat complained about DE while she was running a pew pew ranger build with LB. Told her to toughen up her build and drop the longbow. I see a lot more newbies coming in to WvW. That's good, although it may take some time for them to change their build until they get owned several times. Most thieves will just run away after they figured out they can't down you in 1 to 2 hits unless they really want to spend time dueling you. > > > > Sic'em + Longbow shreds DEs ez tho. > > It's really a L2P thing. > > > > When DEs show up for their Spotter's spam/DJ, hit them with LB 4 > LB 2 and Sic'em and they usually either drop dead or are forced to Shadowstep away + Stealth spam while trying to get OOC. > > > > And if they don't Stealth spam, yur 1500 range Autos will pick them off. > > > > Is not that simple thou, a Condi DE is as annoying as the power version and you don't kill it that easily. Even a valkyrie or marauder DE is very though. Of course those builds use the constant stealth so they behave like a bruiser instead a glass. > > Glass version it is true is very easy to catch with the knockback. Nobody uses glass version of DE. If you're trying to catch someone, he did mention they'll either drop or be forced to bounce. Getting hammered by that LB rollout is dicey even with a smart stat spread, and if any of your mitigation gets stripped even a chunky health bar will burn fast. One followup pull or something should clinch it.

> @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > @"Sylvia.4870" said: > > > @"mrt.7813" said: > > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > > 3k range what skill ? > > > > shoTbow 5 needs to be added to what ? > > > > invis needs to be reduced why ? > > > > Keep.garri hiding cant be done since theres a radar after a cap. > > > > 10 people run after One thief Why exactly ? > > > > > > > > Stop resorting to calling a spec with the C word because youre too bad to counter it....with 10 people. Theres such a thing as being outplayed,accept it or get better. Its clear that you have no experience playing thief but ask for nerfs about things you dont understand. > > > > > > > > > > the problem is here with the classes I play Even though I'm using all the cc skills How can these thieves escape? for example > ele focus air 5 ele water focus 4/5 revenant staff 5 warrior hammer all skill cc f1 etc How can they escape elsewhere within 1 second, even though we use such skills? If I were a new player np > > > > > > https://ibb.co/ncS4mL1 < sample picture I'm just wondering about this how can they get this far? > > > Thank you sir > > > > There are few skills, which make the thief manage to travel from one spot to another ; Shadowstep(Utility skill: Range:1,200 units) with Shadow Return(Range:1,200 units) for going back to the original position one activated Shadowstep, Sword: the second skill, the Infiltrator's Strike(Range:1,200 units) with the Infiltrator's Return(Range:900 units), the Preparation skill, the Shadowy Portal(Range:5,000 units), Rifle: the fourth skill for jumping from one's current spot to another, Shortbow: the fifth skill, the Infiltrator's Arrow(Range:600 units). Signet of Infiltrator(Utility skill: Range:1,200 units), allowing one to forward to one's targetted foe or targetted neutral being. > > > > Note: Shadowstep(Utility skill) is one of the few skills , which allows the thief to get out from being stunned. Once it is used, it can be activated again with another in the limitted duration[10 seconds], Shadow Return to break stun and cleanse 3 conditions(whether they are types of condition damage or conditions ; crippling, immoblilizing, weakness, vulnerablility, taunted, feared, slow, chilling, blindness). > > This ^. Thats why its really helpful to either run thief yourself,not even to fight but to get an understanding of what they have available,the cd's theyre on and how much init it uses etc. > > @mrt.7813 The distance on the pic you show should only be possible by comboing all their mobility skills together. If you're a lazy thief like me it's a nice way to get to a camp and back to your tower for a supply run quickly if you stagger and drop one stage of those skills at the right spots along the way to roll it all back up for the return trip.