Thief is totally broken now.

[Aracz.4702]

I'm playing mostly engi (Holo in pvp, but was playing long time as scrapper in wvw), and thief. Usually, as a engi I had no problem with thiefs (struggled only as condi holo, but not as power holo, power core or scrapper). And thats since beggining of last year, so I don't understand where this "thief counters engi" comes from .-.

Ofc, it's experience of single person, so I don't have to be right. But it seems I'm not only one who feels same

[DragonSlayer.1087]

Thief is trash.... When Condi can burst faster than Power Thief... ANET dunno what they're doing.

[Doug.4930]

> @"Aracz.4702" said:

> I don't understand where this "thief counters engi" comes from .-.

 

Who on earth thinks thief counters engi?

 

 

[Farout.8207]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

>

> Thief definitely cant 1v1

 

What??? I probably win well over 80% of my 1v1's. Most nights I'll also win at least one 1v2. Thief is currently fine in my opinion. There are a few classes out there that are definitely over-tuned and near impossible to beat, but they are the ones that need looking at, not thief.

 

 

[lare.5129]

> @"jgeezz.7832"

So problem is solved ? You not more play thief? ?? Because the the motivate people try another class and play it - broke current.

 

> @"Farout.8207" said:

> What??? I probably win well over 80% of my 1v1's.

u n not properly read. Ofc you can win 80% fight, u can win 99% but this is not mean nothing!!

We talk about is non skied player take thief, ans player with some exp take another class the win rate will be not on thiefs.

 

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Farout.8207" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> >

> > Thief definitely cant 1v1

>

> What??? I probably win well over 80% of my 1v1's. Most nights I'll also win at least one 1v2. Thief is currently fine in my opinion. There are a few classes out there that are definitely over-tuned and near impossible to beat, but they are the ones that need looking at, not thief.

>

>

 

Equal skill level. Beating worse players is easy. Beating equally skilled players nearly impossible. Same as me with Core Nade Engineer, just worse.

[Farout.8207]

> @"lare.5129" said:

> > @"jgeezz.7832"

> So problem is solved ? You not more play thief? ?? Because the the motivate people try another class and play it - broke current.

>

> > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > What??? I probably win well over 80% of my 1v1's.

> u n not properly read. Ofc you can win 80% fight, u can win 99% but this is not mean nothing!!

> We talk about is non skied player take thief, ans player with some exp take another class the win rate will be not on thiefs.

>

 

I don't even understand what you are trying to say...

 

[Farout.8207]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > >

> > > Thief definitely cant 1v1

> >

> > What??? I probably win well over 80% of my 1v1's. Most nights I'll also win at least one 1v2. Thief is currently fine in my opinion. There are a few classes out there that are definitely over-tuned and near impossible to beat, but they are the ones that need looking at, not thief.

> >

> >

>

> Equal skill level. Beating worse players is easy. Beating equally skilled players nearly impossible. Same as me with Core Nade Engineer, just worse.

 

When fighting equally skilled players you should win approximately half your fights in a perfectly balanced game with perfectly balanced classes. But Guild Wars 2 is not that game. Some builds are overpowered and some builds are under-powered. As is currently is, I do pretty well on my thief against most players and classes which tells me that the class itself is not woefully under-performing. There are definitely some OP builds out there that carry the players that use them but there are also players that are just better than I am and will probably beat me regardless of what I'm playing.

 

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Farout.8207" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > >

> > > > Thief definitely cant 1v1

> > >

> > > What??? I probably win well over 80% of my 1v1's. Most nights I'll also win at least one 1v2. Thief is currently fine in my opinion. There are a few classes out there that are definitely over-tuned and near impossible to beat, but they are the ones that need looking at, not thief.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Equal skill level. Beating worse players is easy. Beating equally skilled players nearly impossible. Same as me with Core Nade Engineer, just worse.

>

> When fighting equally skilled players you should win approximately half your fights in a perfectly balanced game with perfectly balanced classes. But Guild Wars 2 is not that game. Some builds are overpowered and some builds are under-powered. As is currently is, I do pretty well on my thief against most players and classes which tells me that the class itself is not woefully under-performing. There are definitely some OP builds out there that carry the players that use them but there are also players that are just better than I am and will probably beat me regardless of what I'm playing.

>

 

That is if "perfectly balanced" meant "Everyone is equally adept at 1v1ing". Thief is a balanced, if not strong class. It is however designed to be bad at any even fight. It loses 1v1s because its *supposed* to lose 1v1s. You need to outnumber an enemy to kill them. Just so happens that thief has the mobility to facilitate that.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > Thief definitely cant 1v1

> > > >

> > > > What??? I probably win well over 80% of my 1v1's. Most nights I'll also win at least one 1v2. Thief is currently fine in my opinion. There are a few classes out there that are definitely over-tuned and near impossible to beat, but they are the ones that need looking at, not thief.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Equal skill level. Beating worse players is easy. Beating equally skilled players nearly impossible. Same as me with Core Nade Engineer, just worse.

> >

> > When fighting equally skilled players you should win approximately half your fights in a perfectly balanced game with perfectly balanced classes. But Guild Wars 2 is not that game. Some builds are overpowered and some builds are under-powered. As is currently is, I do pretty well on my thief against most players and classes which tells me that the class itself is not woefully under-performing. There are definitely some OP builds out there that carry the players that use them but there are also players that are just better than I am and will probably beat me regardless of what I'm playing.

> >

>

> That is if "perfectly balanced" meant "Everyone is equally adept at 1v1ing". Thief is a balanced, if not strong class. It is however designed to be bad at any even fight. It loses 1v1s because its *supposed* to lose 1v1s. You need to outnumber an enemy to kill them. Just so happens that thief has the mobility to facilitate that.

 

Are you referring to the core spec thief specifically or all thief specs as a whole?

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thief definitely cant 1v1

> > > > >

> > > > > What??? I probably win well over 80% of my 1v1's. Most nights I'll also win at least one 1v2. Thief is currently fine in my opinion. There are a few classes out there that are definitely over-tuned and near impossible to beat, but they are the ones that need looking at, not thief.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Equal skill level. Beating worse players is easy. Beating equally skilled players nearly impossible. Same as me with Core Nade Engineer, just worse.

> > >

> > > When fighting equally skilled players you should win approximately half your fights in a perfectly balanced game with perfectly balanced classes. But Guild Wars 2 is not that game. Some builds are overpowered and some builds are under-powered. As is currently is, I do pretty well on my thief against most players and classes which tells me that the class itself is not woefully under-performing. There are definitely some OP builds out there that carry the players that use them but there are also players that are just better than I am and will probably beat me regardless of what I'm playing.

> > >

> >

> > That is if "perfectly balanced" meant "Everyone is equally adept at 1v1ing". Thief is a balanced, if not strong class. It is however designed to be bad at any even fight. It loses 1v1s because its *supposed* to lose 1v1s. You need to outnumber an enemy to kill them. Just so happens that thief has the mobility to facilitate that.

>

> Are you referring to the core spec thief specifically or all thief specs as a whole?

 

All thief specs I suppose. Not that it makes much of a difference, core and daredevil has been interchangeable for most of their time, and deadeye sucks.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thief definitely cant 1v1

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What??? I probably win well over 80% of my 1v1's. Most nights I'll also win at least one 1v2. Thief is currently fine in my opinion. There are a few classes out there that are definitely over-tuned and near impossible to beat, but they are the ones that need looking at, not thief.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Equal skill level. Beating worse players is easy. Beating equally skilled players nearly impossible. Same as me with Core Nade Engineer, just worse.

> > > >

> > > > When fighting equally skilled players you should win approximately half your fights in a perfectly balanced game with perfectly balanced classes. But Guild Wars 2 is not that game. Some builds are overpowered and some builds are under-powered. As is currently is, I do pretty well on my thief against most players and classes which tells me that the class itself is not woefully under-performing. There are definitely some OP builds out there that carry the players that use them but there are also players that are just better than I am and will probably beat me regardless of what I'm playing.

> > > >

> > >

> > > That is if "perfectly balanced" meant "Everyone is equally adept at 1v1ing". Thief is a balanced, if not strong class. It is however designed to be bad at any even fight. It loses 1v1s because its *supposed* to lose 1v1s. You need to outnumber an enemy to kill them. Just so happens that thief has the mobility to facilitate that.

> >

> > Are you referring to the core spec thief specifically or all thief specs as a whole?

>

> All thief specs I suppose. Not that it makes much of a difference, core and daredevil has been interchangeable for most of their time, and deadeye sucks.

 

So what if there's a deadeye that wins lots of outnumbered fights by himself (up to 3 or 4v1's in some cases)?

 

Just curious :)

[Aihao.5824]

dat damage is so ridiculous, all i can do is to try to remove 30-35% of hp bar, but my main goal in spvp is just capping and +1 (removing 30% of hp bar, a few poisonshots). And u have to leave node if some necro/ranger/guardian/other bunker decides to sit on ur node. Killing them takes too much time with that damage we have, and there's no 100% of succeed, as i feel thief is more punishing for mistakes than other classes. And i'm tired of dat bunker meta, its just stupid dat guy can handle all ur miserable damage with his face, and still having an advantage.

[UNOwen.7132]

> @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thief definitely cant 1v1

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What??? I probably win well over 80% of my 1v1's. Most nights I'll also win at least one 1v2. Thief is currently fine in my opinion. There are a few classes out there that are definitely over-tuned and near impossible to beat, but they are the ones that need looking at, not thief.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Equal skill level. Beating worse players is easy. Beating equally skilled players nearly impossible. Same as me with Core Nade Engineer, just worse.

> > > > >

> > > > > When fighting equally skilled players you should win approximately half your fights in a perfectly balanced game with perfectly balanced classes. But Guild Wars 2 is not that game. Some builds are overpowered and some builds are under-powered. As is currently is, I do pretty well on my thief against most players and classes which tells me that the class itself is not woefully under-performing. There are definitely some OP builds out there that carry the players that use them but there are also players that are just better than I am and will probably beat me regardless of what I'm playing.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > That is if "perfectly balanced" meant "Everyone is equally adept at 1v1ing". Thief is a balanced, if not strong class. It is however designed to be bad at any even fight. It loses 1v1s because its *supposed* to lose 1v1s. You need to outnumber an enemy to kill them. Just so happens that thief has the mobility to facilitate that.

> > >

> > > Are you referring to the core spec thief specifically or all thief specs as a whole?

> >

> > All thief specs I suppose. Not that it makes much of a difference, core and daredevil has been interchangeable for most of their time, and deadeye sucks.

>

> So what if there's a deadeye that wins lots of outnumbered fights by himself (up to 3 or 4v1's in some cases)?

>

> Just curious :)

 

Well then I have to question how that Deadeye found so many AFK players.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Farout.8207" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"UNOwen.7132" said:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thief definitely cant 1v1

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What??? I probably win well over 80% of my 1v1's. Most nights I'll also win at least one 1v2. Thief is currently fine in my opinion. There are a few classes out there that are definitely over-tuned and near impossible to beat, but they are the ones that need looking at, not thief.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Equal skill level. Beating worse players is easy. Beating equally skilled players nearly impossible. Same as me with Core Nade Engineer, just worse.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > When fighting equally skilled players you should win approximately half your fights in a perfectly balanced game with perfectly balanced classes. But Guild Wars 2 is not that game. Some builds are overpowered and some builds are under-powered. As is currently is, I do pretty well on my thief against most players and classes which tells me that the class itself is not woefully under-performing. There are definitely some OP builds out there that carry the players that use them but there are also players that are just better than I am and will probably beat me regardless of what I'm playing.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > That is if "perfectly balanced" meant "Everyone is equally adept at 1v1ing". Thief is a balanced, if not strong class. It is however designed to be bad at any even fight. It loses 1v1s because its *supposed* to lose 1v1s. You need to outnumber an enemy to kill them. Just so happens that thief has the mobility to facilitate that.

> > > >

> > > > Are you referring to the core spec thief specifically or all thief specs as a whole?

> > >

> > > All thief specs I suppose. Not that it makes much of a difference, core and daredevil has been interchangeable for most of their time, and deadeye sucks.

> >

> > So what if there's a deadeye that wins lots of outnumbered fights by himself (up to 3 or 4v1's in some cases)?

> >

> > Just curious :)

>

> Well then I have to question how that Deadeye found so many AFK players.

 

Looks like I gotta start streaming my fights again then in both wvw and pvp ;)

[Nirari.4827]

I am very excited about your 3:1 and 4:1 in the streams.

I'm sure I can learn a lot.

Do you have a schedule? I don't want to miss that.

From (if the streams come with the 3;1 and 4:1) so good players you should not close to the masses. Such talent is rare.

 

But respect for you and I am looking forward to your DE 3 vs 1 and 4 vs 1 streams

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"Nirari.4827" said:

> I am very excited about your 3:1 and 4:1 in the streams.

> I'm sure I can learn a lot.

> Do you have a schedule? I don't want to miss that.

> From (if the streams come with the 3;1 and 4:1) so good players you should not close to the masses. Such talent is rare.

>

> But respect for you and I am looking forward to your DE 3 vs 1 and 4 vs 1 streams

 

I plan on trying to record my wvw session tonight. Streaming craps out my game play on my temporary gaming rig (same laptop I work at home from).

 

Last night tho in PvP I went into the Balthazar tournament and was able to keep 3 on their own home point for a while until I started downing them. (Couple revs and a scrapper)

 

Slippery build, use similar builds in PvP and WvW.

 

May have some footage from last night as a guildie was recording our pvp tourney and he was around me (and warning me of Incoming numbers) during some fights

[Senqu.8054]

Thief relays on spamming shitty mechanics to be viable. If this is not broken I don’t know what is. If you can engage and disengage all the time there will always be a moment where the enemy is doing a mistake while the biggest mistake a thief can make is failing to save and use stealth and port. Thiefs should be able to 1v1 without the the need to start the fight 3,4,5,6 times again. Buff thief but lower port, stealth and evade -.- As if anyone likes to play like or against that...

[aleron.1438]

> @"Senqu.8054" said:

> Thief relays on spamming kitten mechanics to be viable. If this is not broken I don’t know what is. If you can engage and disengage all the time there will always be a moment where the enemy is doing a mistake while the biggest mistake a thief can make is failing to save and use stealth and port. Thiefs should be able to 1v1 without the the need to start the fight 3,4,5,6 times again. Buff thief but lower port, stealth and evade -.- As if anyone likes to play like or against that...

 

Funny how staff mirages love to do just that: stealth, port , avoid, go OOC restart.

 

That's with clones AND ambush with such slow auto attack staff skills that the bolt will track and hit a stealthed target.

 

And you know what, that's fine. I got to adapt to that as a rifle only DE. And I'm one that never resets OOC when against one player purely on personal code. I know I shouldn't in this toxic environment, but it's my choice.

And you know what? Enemy mesmers love to disengage as much as daredevils and sword thieves.

 

Oh and before I forget, deadeye's only evade is dodging, roll for initiative and withdraw if they even use that last one.

Rifle#4 Death's Retreat isn't an evade and never was. You still eat all the dmg while porting. And the DE porting effectiveness was nerfed since we can only use it twice now due to ini increase.

 

Before you try pretend bewilderment as to why I keep talking about rifle deadeye here, it's because of your other feedback here so others can see:

> @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > @"ASP.8093" said:

> > Kinda funny to see people talking about permastealth keep captures when it seems about as common as portal-bombing these days. How many keeps do you think actually get flipped by permastealth, per week?

>

> It’s one of the components why perma stealth shouldn’t exist. Knowing a thief is in a keep and you can do nothing about it is not something that should exist in a game and I think we can all agree to that. But I think the term „perma stealth“ also refers to the problem how much access thief has to stealth. Stealth on dodge?? Come on why is this even accepted?

 

The Deadeye specialization has been through 3 overhauls by Anet since the beginning in trying to make it less clunky. And the current iteration of Silent Scope is the smoothest one. But it also killed off one beloved build: the DA BQoBK. Forcing them into SA M7.

 

The current state of rifle Deadeye was a deliberate design choice to push the player into being cornered around stealth.

- rifle AA#1 too slow and low DMG to free up ini to use kite around with #4

- #3 ini was increased instead of lowering dmg

- #4 ini was increased instead of lowering distance or add evade

- Silent Scope 2s ->1s meant you could miss opportunity firing off DJ in real combat situations, reason why had to drop DA for SA

- BQoBK quickness 4s -> 2s and the loss of DA meant you had to go M7 for lot less burst and more sustain

 

So what do you end up with? Damage output centered around DJ by building malice asap with #2 x3 to M7 to dump DJ. While loitering around in stealth because it's the only means of relocation and survival despite eating all the projectiles that still track and hit you.

 

I still hope for a 4th overhaul of DE to get out of this lock but let's be honest here. Renegade is still awaiting its overhaul and Cantha expansion will get all the time & resources.

[Senqu.8054]

> @"aleron.1438" said:

> > @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > Thief relays on spamming kitten mechanics to be viable. If this is not broken I don’t know what is. If you can engage and disengage all the time there will always be a moment where the enemy is doing a mistake while the biggest mistake a thief can make is failing to save and use stealth and port. Thiefs should be able to 1v1 without the the need to start the fight 3,4,5,6 times again. Buff thief but lower port, stealth and evade -.- As if anyone likes to play like or against that...

>

> Funny how staff mirages love to do just that: stealth, port , avoid, go OOC restart.

>

> That's with clones AND ambush with such slow auto attack staff skills that the bolt will track and hit a stealthed target.

 

Yeah really funny I’m laughing right now, why is it now common here to start the statement with funny it just shows the disrespect you have in the first place. I don’t know why you try to compare it now with mirage but yes it is the same case there, this doesn’t justify anything. And that the ambush skills are bad designed is not really a question so here again why try to justify a bad design with a bad design?

 

> And you know what, that's fine. I got to adapt to that as a rifle only DE. And I'm one that never resets OOC when against one player purely on personal code. I know I shouldn't in this toxic environment, but it's my choice.

> And you know what? Enemy mesmers love to disengage as much as daredevils and sword thieves.

 

And again why does this justify anything?

 

> Oh and before I forget, deadeye's only evade is dodging, roll for initiative and withdraw if they even use that last one.

> Rifle#4 Death's Retreat isn't an evade and never was. You still eat all the dmg while porting. And the DE porting effectiveness was nerfed since we can only use it twice now due to ini increase.

 

It is not an evade but an Port xD that’s what I’m talking about. Too much Port, evade or stealth. I don’t say thief shouldn’t have access to it but it should be damn balanced because it’s not fun to play against an DE who has access to 5+ stealth in 10 seconds...

 

> Before you try pretend bewilderment as to why I keep talking about rifle deadeye here, it's because of your other feedback here so others can see:

> > @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > > @"ASP.8093" said:

> > > Kinda funny to see people talking about permastealth keep captures when it seems about as common as portal-bombing these days. How many keeps do you think actually get flipped by permastealth, per week?

> >

> > It’s one of the components why perma stealth shouldn’t exist. Knowing a thief is in a keep and you can do nothing about it is not something that should exist in a game and I think we can all agree to that. But I think the term „perma stealth“ also refers to the problem how much access thief has to stealth. Stealth on dodge?? Come on why is this even accepted?

>

> The Deadeye specialization has been through 3 overhauls by Anet since the beginning in trying to make it less clunky. And the current iteration of Silent Scope is the smoothest one. But it also killed off one beloved build: the DA BQoBK. Forcing them into SA M7.

>

> The current state of rifle Deadeye was a deliberate design choice to push the player into being cornered around stealth.

> - rifle AA#1 too slow and low DMG to free up ini to use kite around with #4

> - #3 ini was increased instead of lowering dmg

> - #4 ini was increased instead of lowering distance or add evade

> - Silent Scope 2s ->1s meant you could miss opportunity firing off DJ in real combat situations, reason why had to drop DA for SA

> - BQoBK quickness 4s -> 2s and the loss of DA meant you had to go M7 for lot less burst and more sustain

>

> So what do you end up with? Damage output centered around DJ by building malice asap with #2 x3 to M7 to dump DJ. While loitering around in stealth because it's the only means of relocation and survival despite eating all the projectiles that still track and hit you.

>

> I still hope for a 4th overhaul of DE to get out of this lock but let's be honest here. Renegade is still awaiting its overhaul and Cantha expansion will get all the time & resources.

 

? So it’s bad that deadeye is based around to much stealth or good now I’m confused? Because that’s what I’m talking about xD Thief needs a buff but the 3 mechanics I mentioned have to be turned down.

[kash.9213]

 

> @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > @"aleron.1438" said:

> > > @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > > Thief relays on spamming kitten mechanics to be viable. If this is not broken I don’t know what is. If you can engage and disengage all the time there will always be a moment where the enemy is doing a mistake while the biggest mistake a thief can make is failing to save and use stealth and port. Thiefs should be able to 1v1 without the the need to start the fight 3,4,5,6 times again. Buff thief but lower port, stealth and evade -.- As if anyone likes to play like or against that...

> >

> > Funny how staff mirages love to do just that: stealth, port , avoid, go OOC restart.

> >

> > That's with clones AND ambush with such slow auto attack staff skills that the bolt will track and hit a stealthed target.

>

> Yeah really funny I’m laughing right now, why is it now common here to start the statement with funny it just shows the disrespect you have in the first place. I don’t know why you try to compare it now with mirage but yes it is the same case there, this doesn’t justify anything. And that the ambush skills are bad designed is not really a question so here again why try to justify a bad design with a bad design?

>

> > And you know what, that's fine. I got to adapt to that as a rifle only DE. And I'm one that never resets OOC when against one player purely on personal code. I know I shouldn't in this toxic environment, but it's my choice.

> > And you know what? Enemy mesmers love to disengage as much as daredevils and sword thieves.

>

> And again why does this justify anything?

>

> > Oh and before I forget, deadeye's only evade is dodging, roll for initiative and withdraw if they even use that last one.

> > Rifle#4 Death's Retreat isn't an evade and never was. You still eat all the dmg while porting. And the DE porting effectiveness was nerfed since we can only use it twice now due to ini increase.

>

> It is not an evade but an Port xD that’s what I’m talking about. Too much Port, evade or stealth. I don’t say thief shouldn’t have access to it but it should be kitten balanced because it’s not fun to play against an DE who has access to 5+ stealth in 10 seconds...

>

> > Before you try pretend bewilderment as to why I keep talking about rifle deadeye here, it's because of your other feedback here so others can see:

> > > @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > > > @"ASP.8093" said:

> > > > Kinda funny to see people talking about permastealth keep captures when it seems about as common as portal-bombing these days. How many keeps do you think actually get flipped by permastealth, per week?

> > >

> > > It’s one of the components why perma stealth shouldn’t exist. Knowing a thief is in a keep and you can do nothing about it is not something that should exist in a game and I think we can all agree to that. But I think the term „perma stealth“ also refers to the problem how much access thief has to stealth. Stealth on dodge?? Come on why is this even accepted?

> >

> > The Deadeye specialization has been through 3 overhauls by Anet since the beginning in trying to make it less clunky. And the current iteration of Silent Scope is the smoothest one. But it also killed off one beloved build: the DA BQoBK. Forcing them into SA M7.

> >

> > The current state of rifle Deadeye was a deliberate design choice to push the player into being cornered around stealth.

> > - rifle AA#1 too slow and low DMG to free up ini to use kite around with #4

> > - #3 ini was increased instead of lowering dmg

> > - #4 ini was increased instead of lowering distance or add evade

> > - Silent Scope 2s ->1s meant you could miss opportunity firing off DJ in real combat situations, reason why had to drop DA for SA

> > - BQoBK quickness 4s -> 2s and the loss of DA meant you had to go M7 for lot less burst and more sustain

> >

> > So what do you end up with? Damage output centered around DJ by building malice asap with #2 x3 to M7 to dump DJ. While loitering around in stealth because it's the only means of relocation and survival despite eating all the projectiles that still track and hit you.

> >

> > I still hope for a 4th overhaul of DE to get out of this lock but let's be honest here. Renegade is still awaiting its overhaul and Cantha expansion will get all the time & resources.

>

> ? So it’s bad that deadeye is based around to much stealth or good now I’m confused? Because that’s what I’m talking about xD Thief needs a buff but the 3 mechanics I mentioned have to be turned down.

 

There's not too much port, evade, or stealth, there's smart builds and a cautious pace. Because I don't have too much of any of that, I've adjusted my builds to be able to fight up close longer. Maybe make a thief and see what skills you can't afford to use enough and what utilities you're not taking that you'd want to because you require utilities like those aleron mentioned that make up for a weak health pool and lack of passive mitigation which incidentally make the thief appear to do those things often but it's when it counts.

 

Stop trying to dumb down the game because you don't want to bother with your own build.

[Senqu.8054]

> @"kash.9213" said:

>

> > @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > > @"aleron.1438" said:

> > > > @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > > > Thief relays on spamming kitten mechanics to be viable. If this is not broken I don’t know what is. If you can engage and disengage all the time there will always be a moment where the enemy is doing a mistake while the biggest mistake a thief can make is failing to save and use stealth and port. Thiefs should be able to 1v1 without the the need to start the fight 3,4,5,6 times again. Buff thief but lower port, stealth and evade -.- As if anyone likes to play like or against that...

> > >

> > > Funny how staff mirages love to do just that: stealth, port , avoid, go OOC restart.

> > >

> > > That's with clones AND ambush with such slow auto attack staff skills that the bolt will track and hit a stealthed target.

> >

> > Yeah really funny I’m laughing right now, why is it now common here to start the statement with funny it just shows the disrespect you have in the first place. I don’t know why you try to compare it now with mirage but yes it is the same case there, this doesn’t justify anything. And that the ambush skills are bad designed is not really a question so here again why try to justify a bad design with a bad design?

> >

> > > And you know what, that's fine. I got to adapt to that as a rifle only DE. And I'm one that never resets OOC when against one player purely on personal code. I know I shouldn't in this toxic environment, but it's my choice.

> > > And you know what? Enemy mesmers love to disengage as much as daredevils and sword thieves.

> >

> > And again why does this justify anything?

> >

> > > Oh and before I forget, deadeye's only evade is dodging, roll for initiative and withdraw if they even use that last one.

> > > Rifle#4 Death's Retreat isn't an evade and never was. You still eat all the dmg while porting. And the DE porting effectiveness was nerfed since we can only use it twice now due to ini increase.

> >

> > It is not an evade but an Port xD that’s what I’m talking about. Too much Port, evade or stealth. I don’t say thief shouldn’t have access to it but it should be kitten balanced because it’s not fun to play against an DE who has access to 5+ stealth in 10 seconds...

> >

> > > Before you try pretend bewilderment as to why I keep talking about rifle deadeye here, it's because of your other feedback here so others can see:

> > > > @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > > > > @"ASP.8093" said:

> > > > > Kinda funny to see people talking about permastealth keep captures when it seems about as common as portal-bombing these days. How many keeps do you think actually get flipped by permastealth, per week?

> > > >

> > > > It’s one of the components why perma stealth shouldn’t exist. Knowing a thief is in a keep and you can do nothing about it is not something that should exist in a game and I think we can all agree to that. But I think the term „perma stealth“ also refers to the problem how much access thief has to stealth. Stealth on dodge?? Come on why is this even accepted?

> > >

> > > The Deadeye specialization has been through 3 overhauls by Anet since the beginning in trying to make it less clunky. And the current iteration of Silent Scope is the smoothest one. But it also killed off one beloved build: the DA BQoBK. Forcing them into SA M7.

> > >

> > > The current state of rifle Deadeye was a deliberate design choice to push the player into being cornered around stealth.

> > > - rifle AA#1 too slow and low DMG to free up ini to use kite around with #4

> > > - #3 ini was increased instead of lowering dmg

> > > - #4 ini was increased instead of lowering distance or add evade

> > > - Silent Scope 2s ->1s meant you could miss opportunity firing off DJ in real combat situations, reason why had to drop DA for SA

> > > - BQoBK quickness 4s -> 2s and the loss of DA meant you had to go M7 for lot less burst and more sustain

> > >

> > > So what do you end up with? Damage output centered around DJ by building malice asap with #2 x3 to M7 to dump DJ. While loitering around in stealth because it's the only means of relocation and survival despite eating all the projectiles that still track and hit you.

> > >

> > > I still hope for a 4th overhaul of DE to get out of this lock but let's be honest here. Renegade is still awaiting its overhaul and Cantha expansion will get all the time & resources.

> >

> > ? So it’s bad that deadeye is based around to much stealth or good now I’m confused? Because that’s what I’m talking about xD Thief needs a buff but the 3 mechanics I mentioned have to be turned down.

>

> There's not too much port, evade, or stealth, there's smart builds and a cautious pace. Because I don't have too much of any of that, I've adjusted my builds to be able to fight up close longer. Maybe make a thief and see what skills you can't afford to use enough and what utilities you're not taking that you'd want to because you require utilities like those aleron mentioned that make up for a weak health pool and lack of passive mitigation which incidentally make the thief appear to do those things often but it's when it counts.

>

> Stop trying to dumb down the game because you don't want to bother with your own build.

 

Why do you make assumptions now that i want these changes because I cant win agains thiefs and that I have not played thief? Doesn’t that sound ridiculous to you too You do not really want to talk about a subject here right?

 

I don’t know about you but I know a time before HoT and call me crazy or to nostalgic but i, personally, hope that the game will now go in this direction again.

[kash.9213]

> @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > @"kash.9213" said:

> >

> > > @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > > > @"aleron.1438" said:

> > > > > @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > > > > Thief relays on spamming kitten mechanics to be viable. If this is not broken I don’t know what is. If you can engage and disengage all the time there will always be a moment where the enemy is doing a mistake while the biggest mistake a thief can make is failing to save and use stealth and port. Thiefs should be able to 1v1 without the the need to start the fight 3,4,5,6 times again. Buff thief but lower port, stealth and evade -.- As if anyone likes to play like or against that...

> > > >

> > > > Funny how staff mirages love to do just that: stealth, port , avoid, go OOC restart.

> > > >

> > > > That's with clones AND ambush with such slow auto attack staff skills that the bolt will track and hit a stealthed target.

> > >

> > > Yeah really funny I’m laughing right now, why is it now common here to start the statement with funny it just shows the disrespect you have in the first place. I don’t know why you try to compare it now with mirage but yes it is the same case there, this doesn’t justify anything. And that the ambush skills are bad designed is not really a question so here again why try to justify a bad design with a bad design?

> > >

> > > > And you know what, that's fine. I got to adapt to that as a rifle only DE. And I'm one that never resets OOC when against one player purely on personal code. I know I shouldn't in this toxic environment, but it's my choice.

> > > > And you know what? Enemy mesmers love to disengage as much as daredevils and sword thieves.

> > >

> > > And again why does this justify anything?

> > >

> > > > Oh and before I forget, deadeye's only evade is dodging, roll for initiative and withdraw if they even use that last one.

> > > > Rifle#4 Death's Retreat isn't an evade and never was. You still eat all the dmg while porting. And the DE porting effectiveness was nerfed since we can only use it twice now due to ini increase.

> > >

> > > It is not an evade but an Port xD that’s what I’m talking about. Too much Port, evade or stealth. I don’t say thief shouldn’t have access to it but it should be kitten balanced because it’s not fun to play against an DE who has access to 5+ stealth in 10 seconds...

> > >

> > > > Before you try pretend bewilderment as to why I keep talking about rifle deadeye here, it's because of your other feedback here so others can see:

> > > > > @"Senqu.8054" said:

> > > > > > @"ASP.8093" said:

> > > > > > Kinda funny to see people talking about permastealth keep captures when it seems about as common as portal-bombing these days. How many keeps do you think actually get flipped by permastealth, per week?

> > > > >

> > > > > It’s one of the components why perma stealth shouldn’t exist. Knowing a thief is in a keep and you can do nothing about it is not something that should exist in a game and I think we can all agree to that. But I think the term „perma stealth“ also refers to the problem how much access thief has to stealth. Stealth on dodge?? Come on why is this even accepted?

> > > >

> > > > The Deadeye specialization has been through 3 overhauls by Anet since the beginning in trying to make it less clunky. And the current iteration of Silent Scope is the smoothest one. But it also killed off one beloved build: the DA BQoBK. Forcing them into SA M7.

> > > >

> > > > The current state of rifle Deadeye was a deliberate design choice to push the player into being cornered around stealth.

> > > > - rifle AA#1 too slow and low DMG to free up ini to use kite around with #4

> > > > - #3 ini was increased instead of lowering dmg

> > > > - #4 ini was increased instead of lowering distance or add evade

> > > > - Silent Scope 2s ->1s meant you could miss opportunity firing off DJ in real combat situations, reason why had to drop DA for SA

> > > > - BQoBK quickness 4s -> 2s and the loss of DA meant you had to go M7 for lot less burst and more sustain

> > > >

> > > > So what do you end up with? Damage output centered around DJ by building malice asap with #2 x3 to M7 to dump DJ. While loitering around in stealth because it's the only means of relocation and survival despite eating all the projectiles that still track and hit you.

> > > >

> > > > I still hope for a 4th overhaul of DE to get out of this lock but let's be honest here. Renegade is still awaiting its overhaul and Cantha expansion will get all the time & resources.

> > >

> > > ? So it’s bad that deadeye is based around to much stealth or good now I’m confused? Because that’s what I’m talking about xD Thief needs a buff but the 3 mechanics I mentioned have to be turned down.

> >

> > There's not too much port, evade, or stealth, there's smart builds and a cautious pace. Because I don't have too much of any of that, I've adjusted my builds to be able to fight up close longer. Maybe make a thief and see what skills you can't afford to use enough and what utilities you're not taking that you'd want to because you require utilities like those aleron mentioned that make up for a weak health pool and lack of passive mitigation which incidentally make the thief appear to do those things often but it's when it counts.

> >

> > Stop trying to dumb down the game because you don't want to bother with your own build.

>

> Why do you make assumptions now that i want these changes because I cant win agains thiefs and that I have not played thief? Doesn’t that sound ridiculous to you too You do not really want to talk about a subject here right?

>

> I don’t know about you but I know a time before HoT and call me crazy or to nostalgic but i, personally, hope that the game will now go in this direction again.

 

I just talked about the subject. I didn't assume anything, your post was right there to read. Combat was more deliberate before HoT which was good but also the mechanics of many skills and actions allowed thieves to pull off some frustrating things that you might prefer post HoT. We don't need to go backwards to any point, we just need to let common sense win out more often. That means not being overly dramatic about class issues like claiming we have all these advantages and forms of mitigation all popping off at the same time and consistently which is just wrong, but we get like a nerf thread a day in the WvW forums and then we get some bull shit like expensive Choking Gas. Load up a thief into WvW for like a week and see what's up and maybe you can keep things in perspective.

[Lighter.5631]

i dont know, maybe thief is not for you? you can see the win rate i have, i literally swapped to thief at the last second to boost my rating, if i had more times i would be higher, all soloq btw

 

but if by broken u mean brokenly good, then i kinda agree

 



 

 

[Klypto.1703]

Reminds me the fun in wvw of seal area and choking gas its my latest amusement just make sure your shortbow has draining and absorption sigils on it. A little ball of death for deadeye that doesn't require any rifle or stealth to it. I think I shall name this setup Choking the Choke!