Normalise WvW to what it really is - World PvP

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

"You should lose the keep anyways once they breach the inner."

 

"if you can't keep them out and then can't field the numbers needed to wipe them, YOU DON'T DESERVE TO KEEP THE STRUCTURE"

 

lol what? before this nasty balance patch we killed 15 attackers of Air Keep as a group of three (3) people + lord. after those absurdities we shoulda lost it because they breached inner and because we didn't have the needed numbers? it would have failed now since i was on holo and holo lost two big aoe-dps. same story for rev.

 

the whole buff system for defenders if flawed at its very base. you should get buffs while near your structure, based on how bad you're outnumbered on the map, and there should be like 3 steps. and anet's counting of the map population should work a bit better maybe.

 

also, maybe additional stat buffs depending on how many keeps you own on the map (or structure based buffs depending on how many u own etc)

 

if that exists, okay, cut the Guild Stats down (but maybe up stuff like pip%+, non-battle boosts)

__

people turtling inside structures is annyoing, but they do that also if they just have no intention to fight. god , we have had even zergs running from our zerg just to group up with a 2nd zerg. and even then waiting till we push bc they refuse to play proper stuff i guess. or at guildraid, 15 ppl group and four other guilds w/20+ groups tried to encircle us. we pushed them half of the time successfully, but with the three-way lag during these battles it gets just a bit weird. you can never force the enemy to fight on your terms - structures don't change that, but also do not really make it worse.

 

the OP has overall funny thoughts. "normalize" so "standardizing" a format that is built on unequal encounters, not possible.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"Baine.9650" said:

> I think I speak for many groupless/guildless players when it's become clear that there are obvious consumable optimisations for WvW that turn any player into a elite-class monster. The past 14 days of my return to GW2 WvW was marred once again by organized groups with more or less raid-level optimisations. To be clear, I play and Elementalist, have full Berserker exotics and a set of scholar runes and damage sigils, so that means my damage should be expected to be slightly above the average player. I eat every consumable accessible to a casual player which can be purchased through the Black Lion Trading Post.

>

> I have 2 suggestions: Either make these optimisations part of WvW gameplay, meaning every player will eventually be on equal footing when they play WvW (barring Borderlands bloodlust, which is an objective) or entirely remove them from the equation. I'm okay with people having 25 stacks of might one-shotting light armor classes if you do not dodge. I'm okay when an entire group has every single boon on them imaginable struts around invincible in a WvW setting and I have no boon-stripping counterplay like Raid bosses have. What I'm entirely floored by, and constantly wonder how ANet could have thought this was fine, is that I can't even deal 5% of their health in damage even though I got 4 spells off without dying first, because of the amount of buffs and consumables they have. Ascended food isn't accessible to everyone at all times, either, but is of course no issues to these raiders.

>

> If you're doing to make these optimisations part and parcel of WvW gameplay, start giving these consumables (account-bound version) to players through the WvW reward track. This is a knowledge gap the average player is never going to bother breaching. Hell, I spent a good part of my PLAYING TIME researching damage optimizations to solve my 600-damage meteor showers on these raid groups.

>

> WvW is, in it's current form, very accessible to players at first glance, but the moment they run into the brick walls of wannabe raid guilds having their time in the WvW sun you can be 100% sure that they're going to drop off the game. It's just not fun or fair when it's a organization/teamplay gap when it seems that WvW is drop in/drop out anytime gameplay. ANY casual raid guild can just hop into WvW and start farming people, that's how it is right now.

>

> If any fully booned raid team walks through a bunch of fields unscathed just because of their gear and consumables against an equal size group AND CAN START FARMING PEOPLE for lootbags (Guilds especially love to do this), you'll find that soon WvW is going to be abandoned again after all the effort you've spent in user acquisition.

 

Welcome back to the game and wvw! Here is a handy video to start off your journey! Enjoy!

 

 

 

 

 

[Clownmug.8357]

This is just a symptom of bad population balance. It's like playing an old FPS capture the flag game where the server owner disabled auto-team shuffle, the other team's got 4 extra players, and most of them are clan members.

[ArchonWing.9480]

The average Gw2 player is a potato and shouldn't really be a standard for anything. This is a result of the ability to be carried through most content without knowing anything.

 

Full ascended to full exotic is like 15-20% damage; however most of this is weighted towards trinkets that are almost free with laurels and weapons. The most expensive component, armor, is also the smallest boost.

 

Also ascended food is cheap (40s-50s for 1hr) and people drop it everywhere.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

4 skill before dying.

 

1. Fireball (Destroyed be projectile hate)

2. Lavafont (Enemy walked out before the first tick)

3. Fireball (Enemy moved a little bit to the right)

4. Meteorshower (Enemy autohits you ones and you are dead before the channel completes)

 

 

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Baine.9650" said:

> I think I speak for many groupless/guildless players when it's become clear that there are obvious consumable optimisations for WvW that turn any player into a elite-class monster.

You have the same access to consumables as anyone else.

> The past 14 days of my return to GW2 WvW was marred once again by organized groups with more or less raid-level optimisations. To be clear, I play and Elementalist, have **full Berserker exotics and a set of scholar runes and damage sigils**, so that means my damage should be expected to be slightly above the average player.

Found the problem.

 

 

[Baine.9650]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Baine.9650" said:

> > I think I speak for many groupless/guildless players when it's become clear that there are obvious consumable optimisations for WvW that turn any player into a elite-class monster.

> You have the same access to consumables as anyone else.

> > The past 14 days of my return to GW2 WvW was marred once again by organized groups with more or less raid-level optimisations. To be clear, I play and Elementalist, have **full Berserker exotics and a set of scholar runes and damage sigils**, so that means my damage should be expected to be slightly above the average player.

> Found the problem.

>

>

 

FoUnD tHe PrOblEm

 

I'm not dealing the damage I'm supposed to at the expense of my durability. I'm not complaining about being 1 shot, I'm complaining about dealing insignificant damage to blobs.

[BolkovonHarnfeldt.1372]

> @"Baine.9650" said:

> I'm not dealing the damage I'm supposed to at the expense of my durability. I'm not complaining about being 1 shot, I'm complaining about dealing insignificant damage to blobs.

 

You are not *supposed* to deal that much damage to a player who gets protection, regeneration and healing from other players in his party. WvW isn't world PvP in the sense that every player is on his own and fights against all others. There are three servers fighing each other. People from the same server are encouraged to party up and work together to be stronger together. If you insist on running alone, look for enemy players who are alone as well.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"Baine.9650" said:

> > @"Infusion.7149" said:

> > If it's an organized guild they will have protection up (-33% damage), stability, aegis, and cleanses / heals / resistance. If there's a jalis rev that's another 50% damage reduction and Tome of Courage's Unbroken lines applies 200 toughness in WvW. Most full support classes are 3000+ toughness if they need to stay in melee range. DPS classes not running life steal cilantro food have -10% incoming damage food (peppercorn).

> >

> > If you're fighting in an enemy keep there's an additional 200 toughness if presence of the keep bonus is active.

> >

> > You cannot treat WvW as a PvE raid. You shouldn't be running full berserker gear, especially not on an elementalist.

> >

> > The only consumable I can think of that is broken is the potion of karka toughness which stacks on top of food for +150 toughness.

>

> Thank for explaining, this is probably what's happening. If what you say is true then there should be clearer indicators when targets are nigh unkillable so that weaker players understand they are outmatched and that they should run.

 

there already are many tells. You see 10-30 people with the same guild tag? You are in trouble now. You see a single minion master? You are observing a pve player...

 

That said, I am always a bit... on the edge if people just plainly recommend raid gear and builds to new-ish players. Newsflash: outside of raids&fractals they do not work. Also...dps ele is interesting to play - because you have to learn when to be on tag and when you should be far away, bombing the enemy from safety.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"Baine.9650" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > > @"Baine.9650" said:

> > > I think I speak for many groupless/guildless players when it's become clear that there are obvious consumable optimisations for WvW that turn any player into a elite-class monster.

> > You have the same access to consumables as anyone else.

> > > The past 14 days of my return to GW2 WvW was marred once again by organized groups with more or less raid-level optimisations. To be clear, I play and Elementalist, have **full Berserker exotics and a set of scholar runes and damage sigils**, so that means my damage should be expected to be slightly above the average player.

> > Found the problem.

> >

> >

>

> FoUnD tHe PrOblEm

>

> I'm not dealing the damage I'm supposed to at the expense of my durability. I'm not complaining about being 1 shot, I'm complaining about dealing insignificant damage to blobs.

 

next time do not bomb randomly, bomb the warrior bubble. Bomb the melee clash. Bomb ontop your necro bomb.

[Thornwolf.9721]

Its not World PvP it is RvR, which is a PvP setting which has sides fight over WORTHWHILE OBJECTIVES and try to maintain control for the sake of points/loot and the promise of more battles. They need to double down on it being RVR and bring in some ideas from Warhammer Online and Dark Age of Camelot at least the parts that succeded and make them work.

 

The objectives need to matter, the point in taking them and holding them needs to be more of a big deal. And they need to make more decisions on how to make it interesting to engage in the game mode based on class/race/player choice. You wana run supplies and help us keep our supply lines going so we can upgrade the keeps into fortresses ? Ok you can do it and be rewarded for it.

 

You wana fight on the front line and be our invasion force.. Sure. Here is stuff to help you do the thing, and get more things.

 

You wana defend? Build Siege and help our forces hold their ground? Sure lil-buddy here is all the stuff you need, and these are the rewards you will get.

 

* Make racial based siege, which can be bought in your races capital and can only be deployed by your race. (Charr tanks, Norn shrines, Human shrines, Dolyak siege, Sylvari vines and plants/creatures, Asuran golems of differing use) This would utilize existing models which have been in the game for a long time, and put those to use elsewhere which means less work in the long run. Imagine being able to ACTUALLY GET A CHARR TANK!!! Those things are freak'n cool in grothmar. Or imagine being able to erect a norn shrine to bear in a keep, and gain bears blessing and protection. The keep then changes and specific things happen to make it funner for everyone involved, you don't need to be that race to interact with it. But you need to be that race to purchase and deploy it. (Adds some flavor, they would all be good at different things. And each race should have defense/invasion based siege options.)

* Make guilds a larger part of the gameplay loop, so they serve some larger purpose.

* Some new maps to alternate in during the weekly resets PLEASE.

* Make it so specific objectives (Centaurs, hylek, krait, dredge) when taken will bolster your objectives with more NPC's who come in differing strengths. So if you take the dredge then your keep gets outfitted with their turrets and tech which help defend the keep. Or when you take a camp sappers can be sent out if you don't own anything nearby, and if left unchecked they can break down walls and doors by running bombs. (The guards will claim most of them anyhow..) This crap should matter if it exists within the maps and I like the idea of being able to recruit "Allies" to help bolster our war effort.

* More mist shenanigans and focus on the mists as we are, after all in the mists. You'd think some wacky, wonky or even fear inspiring things would dwell here I mean imagine for a moment you could have a human god shrine for example? Tap into their god realm and bring forces from the underworld/fissure of woe to aid in protecting or even maybe invading enemy territory/objectives.

[ASP.8093]

> @"Baine.9650" said:

>

> I'm not dealing the damage I'm supposed to at the expense of my durability. I'm not complaining about being 1 shot, I'm complaining about dealing insignificant damage to blobs.

 

ok, but just the basic aoe cap mechanics will allow 30 players to pretty safely soak your big Meteor nuke with its 1.1 damage scaling per impact.

[Baine.9650]

> @"ASP.8093" said:

> > @"Baine.9650" said:

> >

> > I'm not dealing the damage I'm supposed to at the expense of my durability. I'm not complaining about being 1 shot, I'm complaining about dealing insignificant damage to blobs.

>

> ok, but just the basic aoe cap mechanics will allow 30 players to pretty safely soak your big Meteor nuke with its 1.1 damage scaling per impact.

 

I never knew about this. Thank you for explaining this. Maybe a game prompt that appears when you hit a bunch of people (You are dealing less damage because X - read more here) would really help new players realise that there are such mechanics.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Baine.9650" said:

> > @"ASP.8093" said:

> > > @"Baine.9650" said:

> > >

> > > I'm not dealing the damage I'm supposed to at the expense of my durability. I'm not complaining about being 1 shot, I'm complaining about dealing insignificant damage to blobs.

> >

> > ok, but just the basic aoe cap mechanics will allow 30 players to pretty safely soak your big Meteor nuke with its 1.1 damage scaling per impact.

>

> I never knew about this. Thank you for explaining this. Maybe a game prompt that appears when you hit a bunch of people (You are dealing less damage because X - read more here) would really help new players realise that there are such mechanics.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meteor_Shower

 

 

Everything is there. Even the pve version is similar. This has nothing to do with being new in wvw.

[Strider.7849]

> @"Baine.9650" said:

> I think I speak for many groupless/guildless players when it's become clear that there are obvious consumable optimisations for WvW that turn any player into a elite-class monster. The past 14 days of my return to GW2 WvW was marred once again by organized groups with more or less raid-level optimisations. To be clear, I play and Elementalist, have full Berserker exotics and a set of scholar runes and damage sigils, so that means my damage should be expected to be slightly above the average player. I eat every consumable accessible to a casual player which can be purchased through the Black Lion Trading Post.

>

> I have 2 suggestions: Either make these optimisations part of WvW gameplay, meaning every player will eventually be on equal footing when they play WvW (barring Borderlands bloodlust, which is an objective) or entirely remove them from the equation. I'm okay with people having 25 stacks of might one-shotting light armor classes if you do not dodge. I'm okay when an entire group has every single boon on them imaginable struts around invincible in a WvW setting and I have no boon-stripping counterplay like Raid bosses have. What I'm entirely floored by, and constantly wonder how ANet could have thought this was fine, is that I can't even deal 5% of their health in damage even though I got 4 spells off without dying first, because of the amount of buffs and consumables they have. Ascended food isn't accessible to everyone at all times, either, but is of course no issues to these raiders.

>

> If you're doing to make these optimisations part and parcel of WvW gameplay, start giving these consumables (account-bound version) to players through the WvW reward track. This is a knowledge gap the average player is never going to bother breaching. Hell, I spent a good part of my PLAYING TIME researching damage optimizations to solve my 600-damage meteor showers on these raid groups.

>

> WvW is, in it's current form, very accessible to players at first glance, but the moment they run into the brick walls of wannabe raid guilds having their time in the WvW sun you can be 100% sure that they're going to drop off the game. It's just not fun or fair when it's a organization/teamplay gap when it seems that WvW is drop in/drop out anytime gameplay. ANY casual raid guild can just hop into WvW and start farming people, that's how it is right now.

>

> If any fully booned raid team walks through a bunch of fields unscathed just because of their gear and consumables against an equal size group AND CAN START FARMING PEOPLE for lootbags (Guilds especially love to do this), you'll find that soon WvW is going to be abandoned again after all the effort you've spent in user acquisition.

 

I couldn't disagree more here. You state that you play as a solo player and are guildless, you have made the time to "optimize" builds but haven't invested the small amount of time to get ascended food nor work on ascended gear - this is even more important if you solo roam. Yes you can win fights in exotics, but if you're solo roaming and going up against a roaming group you need to squeeze out every bit of stat enhancements possible. Ascended weapons on power builds for example can be as much as a 10% increase in damage from exotic weapons, especially the more glass you run. The armor increase is definitely noticeable the more glassy you play - I find this particularly important on classes like thief. That increase in damage just on weapons alone can literally mean that you could apply sigils that help in sustain and you would still do more damage than you do currently.

 

Secondly this isn't PvE - running scholars is not optimal since you A: don't have 100% Crit chance as a solo roamer, and B: you are rarely going to stay above 90% health to make use of the 6th Rune effect. Eagle runes are a significant damage increase over scholars in WvW when paired with berserker, just as one example. There's so much more to this I want to add but don't want to write too much at this time since I'm at work.

 

Next you mentioned you've been back 14 days.. and you want to compete with roaming groups, that are optimized (perhaps even roaming frequently). I roam near daily, most of the time solo and on weekends duo, you can take on these groups but not in a direct confrontation. You need to (putting this in short) utilize your environment, and abilities to negate damage, juke, and isolate players from their group - you need to be doing this especially if you're going to play so glassy that you can only sustain less than a handful of hits. Smashing head first into a dedicated roaming squad will almost always result in you losing.

 

I hope when you read this, it's not meant as offensive but more as constructive critism as my experience in game has been completely different. I just feel that you lack the experience coming back only a couple weeks into the game, having subpar builds/gear/food and based on time in game, ability - and your expectations are too high versus what you're fighting. You're also going super glassy in a meta that has more and more people converting to tanky/sustain condition builds - you need to see that you need some sustain built into your build or ways of negating damage as a solo roamer because even in full glass and specced for as much damage you can push out you won't one shot builds like that.

 

Lastly something I always keep in mind when building a character for WvW roaming - mobility is king.

[lodjur.1284]

> @"Baine.9650" said:

> I think I speak for many groupless/guildless players when it's become clear that there are obvious consumable optimisations for WvW that turn any player into a elite-class monster. The past 14 days of my return to GW2 WvW was marred once again by organized groups with more or less raid-level optimisations. To be clear, I play and Elementalist, have full Berserker exotics and a set of scholar runes and damage sigils, so that means my damage should be expected to be slightly above the average player. I eat every consumable accessible to a casual player which can be purchased through the Black Lion Trading Post.

 

So you have full glass trash tier (ie exotic) gear and don't use food/utility effects because you're what? Morally opposed to doing 5 minutes of crafting every few sessions?

 

Also at least when I run in WvW i optimize far further than I would ever care to for any pve content (including raids), because theorycrafting, optimizing and building a strong teamcomp is why WvW is fun.

 

> I have 2 suggestions: Either make these optimisations part of WvW gameplay, meaning every player will eventually be on equal footing when they play WvW (barring Borderlands bloodlust, which is an objective) or entirely remove them from the equation. I'm okay with people having 25 stacks of might one-shotting light armor classes if you do not dodge. I'm okay when an entire group has every single boon on them imaginable struts around invincible in a WvW setting and I have no boon-stripping counterplay like Raid bosses have. What I'm entirely floored by, and constantly wonder how ANet could have thought this was fine, is that I can't even deal 5% of their health in damage even though I got 4 spells off without dying first, because of the amount of buffs and consumables they have. Ascended food isn't accessible to everyone at all times, either, but is of course no issues to these raiders.

>

 

It's not the -10% less dmg food that makes them take 0 dmg. It's the fact that they're playing together. AoE caps is what causes the ball playstyle to be effective.

 

However Ascended food is easy to craft 50 silver/hour means you still gain gold in WvW (like 3-5/hour), theres no timegate, no accountbound materials for it, just

 

> If you're doing to make these optimisations part and parcel of WvW gameplay, start giving these consumables (account-bound version) to players through the WvW reward track. This is a knowledge gap the average player is never going to bother breaching. Hell, I spent a good part of my PLAYING TIME researching damage optimizations to solve my 600-damage meteor showers on these raid groups.

 

Sure giving consumables through reward tracks would be nice. Assuming it's the highest tier.

 

The average player will also never know how to optimize their effective power, or which pieces of 4 stat armor gives the most stat benefit compared to 3 stat armor, this is because the game is deep enough that not everything is obvious, if one is interested in the info is readily avaialable.

 

> WvW is, in it's current form, very accessible to players at first glance, but the moment they run into the brick walls of wannabe raid guilds having their time in the WvW sun you can be 100% sure that they're going to drop off the game. It's just not fun or fair when it's a organization/teamplay gap when it seems that WvW is drop in/drop out anytime gameplay. ANY casual raid guild can just hop into WvW and start farming people, that's how it is right now.

 

Raid builds and stats actually perform very poorly in WvW.

 

The organization/teamplay gap is what makes WvW fun and what makes there be some actual skill involved.

 

Seeing people actually din outnumbered fights, even if I was on the losing end would be inspiring to me as a new player, giving me something to aspire to and makes it seem as if numbers isn't the only thing that matters.

 

> If any fully booned raid team walks through a bunch of fields unscathed just because of their gear and consumables against an equal size group AND CAN START FARMING PEOPLE for lootbags (Guilds especially love to do this), you'll find that soon WvW is going to be abandoned again after all the effort you've spent in user acquisition.

 

People did that before ascended food, with no real difference.

 

Organized groups have been farming unorganized ones since launch. WvW is still kind of here, even if the forums insists that it's dead