hugo.4705 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 So where to start? Welp anyway here your rate: 17/20! So, first well, the map. I like the map. The ambient dialogue, the landscapes.... Very diversified map and it's lovely, there is a mill, a charr submarine port, a mine, some human villages, some norns structures et charr encampment. The map is between to me, Caledon forest and Kessex hills: A very nice rocky-forest. You heave the east part really coastal, middle more mountainous and the left really forest. I liked the charr helicopter with a charr near it that you can ask to be dropped somewhere on the map with a parachute. The story, well as planned, Steel warband are dead and well whereas I think they could have allied with us, it is surely better if no use was planned for them later. I liked the different Imperators personalities, but what was a big plus for me is the several points of the instances where you could CHOOSE an option: As example, during the debate, then later about dropping bomb or not, it's a good thing because depending on what is chosen some steps and dialogue change and that is amazing. I liked the stealth instance within dominion hideout. And I had a big laugh at the end seeing minister of morale sending on me propaganda balloons and crazy charr tanks, a big oof laugh. And a kind of funny joke too, fight more appreciated than the one I had with Almorra before. About cynder, bad smodur killed her but welp. The fight was okay but expected more for a steel warband member. The mechanics. Definitely fan of the blueprints: You picked the good thing, and removed the bad part: It acts like WvW sieges but you don't lose time building them and that's pretty cool! You also reused some mechanics experienced in grothmar like having balloons to shoot with rifle, but shooting charrcopter with charrzooka was fun too (just little buggy, sometimes missiles don't reach target or it's obstructed). The events in general are okay: Defend x, escort Y, Capture Z but I think it fit a context of war. The masteries are pretty cool too. The ambiance: Well as said before, good ambient dialogues. During the last instance, I also liked the fact that on the bridge there were several boneskinners along ice giants and those F A B U L O U S icebrood charrs! They are very well, I enjoy their look. Others: I'm very happy to finally have canopee/pine trees as gh decos and definitely want to buy several of them. Through I feel a lack in rewards, sure you earn several supplies, but haven't spotted yet an infinite tonic or any karma wasting/volatile magic wasting item. About the armors I guess they are behind achievements. To sum up imho it's a good map, they picked good things from grothmar and added a caledonish setting with a cup of WvW on that. I enjoy the map, may be the Third map where I will return a lot after Sandswept Isles and Grothmar Valley. My only complain is the tuning of the strike mission, we are 5 in a public instance, and the boss seems to have just too much hp, it goes does of 1 each 45 secs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 It was a decent episode - the story outclassed the Bjora sequence from the last two episodes (imo) PROS - Great map. Very pretty. A bit small, but I'm guessing the north will expand that next episode. I actually regret using my Skyscale because it took away from exploring the map. I've had that feeling for awhile with mounts and I'm going to have to discipline myself a bit more - WvW elements were good. Needed more of them I think and maybe even use of the Warclaw - Story was longer and meatier. - Event rewards seem worthwhile despite the heavy inventory management - Side missions seem a decent idea - Meta end fight was fun. I had hoped for more from the Warband throughout the Saga, but I look forward to their dialogue being added because that was the only thing really missing from that fight - The dialogue seemed strong enough to make me look forward to hearing the VA when it is added - Enjoyed the end fight despite being a HP sponge. It was fantastic to see all those icebrood creatures in the backdrop and the boneskinner - No mention of Aurene (huge pro) - Dialogue choices were a good addition - Ryland's VA at the end was a nice touch CONS - Visual noise - yeah I'm going to mention this until Anet get a grip on the situation and improve things and not intentionally worsen it for their players - Some minor spelling mistakes - Massive fps issue in the sneaky part of the middle instance. Not sure why it went after moving into next room. - Map was a bit too Dragonfall in style. Needed something a bit more - I think more reliance on the WvW and siege stuff would help - Inventory wars. You took great pleasure in filling our inventory on this one. - Cried out for bounties - Vendor rewards are lacking - 1 point achievements still. Please stop with those. Forever - Strike is a mess. Was put straight into fight each time - couldn't gather players, couldn't buff mastery up and if (when) you die, you get put outside of the map border and have 2 seconds to get in or die. Couldn't even leave it. I'd have rather you had stuck to the established Strike formula instead of rerunning the end instance. - The parent/sibling relationship between Ryland and Rytlock/Cre feels out of place for what we know about Charr. Seems too forced and out of character. OTHER - Why are we here? Jormag is by Bitterfrost as per LS3ep3. I am unaware of any statement saying it moved when we put it to sleep in ep5. Maybe I missed something, but I'm not understanding the reasoning behind the location. As great as the map is, it felt a little jarring to be suddenly leagues away from where we last were. Surely we could moved more seamlessly towards this map?This is one thing that does annoy me - we just seem to plonk down somewhere random. It's one of the few things GW1 got right over GW2 in that the we always moved seamlessly between areas for the story - Have yet to use any of the new masteries I've acquired nor have seen any reason to do so - Bit confused as to why the enemy have essence of the lost spirits dropping from them at this stage. Drakkar is dead and these aren't (yet) icebrood The cons are largely minor though (except visual noise - that needs sorting and the Strike mission.). The pros vastly outweigh the cons and overall it was a fun, solid episode that fought back against the horrible constraints of the episodic formula and produced the best episode since the Prologue. The first in a while I've actually been left wanting to see how it continues on next episode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 > @"Randulf.7614" said: > It was a decent episode - the story outclassed the Bjora rubbish we've had the last two episodes > > PROS > - Great map. Very pretty. A bit small, but I'm guessing the north will expand that next episode. I actually regret using my Skyscale because it took away from exploring the map. I've had that feeling for awhile with mounts and I'm going to have to discipline myself a bit more > - WvW elements were good. Needed more of them I think and maybe even use of the Warclaw > - Story was longer and meatier. > - Event rewards seem worthwhile despite the heavy inventory management > - Side missions seem a decent idea > - Meta end fight was fun. I had hoped for more from the Warband throughout the Saga, but I look forward to their dialogue being added because that was the only thing really missing from that fight > - The dialogue seemed strong enough to make me look forward to hearing the VA when it is added > - Enjoyed the end fight despite being a HP sponge. It was fantastic to see all those icebrood creatures in the backdrop and the boneskinner > - No mention of Aurene (huge pro) > > CONS > - Visual noise - yeah I'm going to mention this until Anet get a grip on the situation and improve things and not intentionally worsen it for their players > - Some minor spelling mistakes > - Massive fps issue in the sneaky part of the middle instance. Not sure why it went after moving into next room. > - Map was a bit too Dragonfall in style. Needed something a bit more - I think more reliance on the WvW and siege stuff would help > - Inventory wars. You took great pleasure in filling our inventory on this one. > - Cried out for bounties > - Vendor rewards are lacking > - 1 point achievements still. Please stop with those. Forever > > OTHER > - Why are we here? Jormag is by Bitterfrost as per LS3ep3. I am unaware of any statement saying it moved when we put it to sleep in ep5. Maybe I missed something, but I'm not understanding the reasoning behind the location. As great as the map is, it felt a little jarring to be suddenly leagues away from where we last were. Surely we could moved more seamlessly towards this map?This is one thing that does annoy me - we just seem to plonk down somewhere random. It's one of the few things GW1 got right over GW2 in that the we always moved seamlessly between areas for the story > - Have yet to use any of the new masteries I've acquired nor have seen any reason to do so > - Haven't tried the new Strike yet so can't comment on it > - Bit confused as to why the enemy have essence of the lost spirits dropping from them at this stage. Drakkar is dead and these aren't (yet) icebrood > > The cons are largely minor though (except visual noise - that needs sorting.). The pros vastly outweigh the cons and overall it was a fun, solid episode that fought back against the horrible constraints of the episodic formula and produced the best episode since the Prologue. > > The first in a while I've actually been left wanting to see how it continues on next episode I wouldnt call bjora rubish bit i did play ep1 and 2 back to back so i guess its that? (plus it being abit subjective). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Randulf.7614" said: > > It was a decent episode - the story outclassed the Bjora rubbish we've had the last two episodes > > > > PROS > > - Great map. Very pretty. A bit small, but I'm guessing the north will expand that next episode. I actually regret using my Skyscale because it took away from exploring the map. I've had that feeling for awhile with mounts and I'm going to have to discipline myself a bit more > > - WvW elements were good. Needed more of them I think and maybe even use of the Warclaw > > - Story was longer and meatier. > > - Event rewards seem worthwhile despite the heavy inventory management > > - Side missions seem a decent idea > > - Meta end fight was fun. I had hoped for more from the Warband throughout the Saga, but I look forward to their dialogue being added because that was the only thing really missing from that fight > > - The dialogue seemed strong enough to make me look forward to hearing the VA when it is added > > - Enjoyed the end fight despite being a HP sponge. It was fantastic to see all those icebrood creatures in the backdrop and the boneskinner > > - No mention of Aurene (huge pro) > > > > CONS > > - Visual noise - yeah I'm going to mention this until Anet get a grip on the situation and improve things and not intentionally worsen it for their players > > - Some minor spelling mistakes > > - Massive fps issue in the sneaky part of the middle instance. Not sure why it went after moving into next room. > > - Map was a bit too Dragonfall in style. Needed something a bit more - I think more reliance on the WvW and siege stuff would help > > - Inventory wars. You took great pleasure in filling our inventory on this one. > > - Cried out for bounties > > - Vendor rewards are lacking > > - 1 point achievements still. Please stop with those. Forever > > > > OTHER > > - Why are we here? Jormag is by Bitterfrost as per LS3ep3. I am unaware of any statement saying it moved when we put it to sleep in ep5. Maybe I missed something, but I'm not understanding the reasoning behind the location. As great as the map is, it felt a little jarring to be suddenly leagues away from where we last were. Surely we could moved more seamlessly towards this map?This is one thing that does annoy me - we just seem to plonk down somewhere random. It's one of the few things GW1 got right over GW2 in that the we always moved seamlessly between areas for the story > > - Have yet to use any of the new masteries I've acquired nor have seen any reason to do so > > - Haven't tried the new Strike yet so can't comment on it > > - Bit confused as to why the enemy have essence of the lost spirits dropping from them at this stage. Drakkar is dead and these aren't (yet) icebrood > > > > The cons are largely minor though (except visual noise - that needs sorting.). The pros vastly outweigh the cons and overall it was a fun, solid episode that fought back against the horrible constraints of the episodic formula and produced the best episode since the Prologue. > > > > The first in a while I've actually been left wanting to see how it continues on next episode > > I wouldnt call bjora rubish bit i did play ep1 and 2 back to back so i guess its that? (plus it being abit subjective). It def works better back to back, but the story and map were pretty weak and threadbare in places. It certainly the map became a lot better as a whole, but the story is very poor even when combined. They have shown they can do better - like in this episode. However, I don't want to bog this thread down too much with Bjora feedback since my feedback was extensive enough in the official threads from back then and this episode is a whole lot better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donari.5237 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 > @"hugo.4705" said: > The story, well as planned, Steel warband are dead and well whereas I think they could have allied with us, it is surely better if no use was planned for them later. I liked the different Imperators personalities, but what was a big plus for me is the several points of the instances where you could CHOOSE an option: As example, during the debate, then later about dropping bomb or not, it's a good thing because depending on what is chosen some steps and dialogue change and that is amazing. I liked the stealth instance within dominion hideout. I was doing the story with a friend. The vent part is open world. I chose *not* to drop the bomb, he chose to drop it. And I heard the screams, and it was all blown up when I got down there. I'll have to play again to see what happens if no one drops the bomb. Could be something goes boom anyway? Also for some reason when I first interacted with the vent I got Mad King Thorn's Scepter novelty equipped (could be user error if I was typing to a friend and hit the hotkey, but it confused me). So I tried using it on the vent to no avail, until I got the popup bomb y/n choice. I did like the choices changing what you see. I went with my character's most likely decisions in the parley, and will try for the even-handed achieve next run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turamarth.3248 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 > @"Donari.5237" said: > I was doing the story with a friend. The vent part is open world. I chose *not* to drop the bomb, he chose to drop it. And I heard the screams, and it was all blown up when I got down there. I'll have to play again to see what happens if no one drops the bomb. Could be something goes boom anyway? If you don't want to spend time >! Rytlock will drop the bomb if you are alone and chose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jura.2170 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 I really don't like the new map I don't have a flying mount and never will, don't have a roller beetle either It takes so long to go anywhere By the time ppl without fast mounts reach the cache keepers, they're already dead and the zerg has gone to the next one And the event reward for the end of meta is really poor Its really bad for a 2 hour map meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Should also mention the OST was decent. I'm on the fence about the recycling of HoT stuff as it conjured up memories of Tangled Depths etc, but it kinda fitted the setting. The S5 specific scores continue to be pretty good as I warm to them more and more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerioth.7062 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 > @"Jura.2170" said: > I really don't like the new map > I don't have a flying mount and never will, don't have a roller beetle either > It takes so long to go anywhere > By the time ppl without fast mounts reach the cache keepers, they're already dead and the zerg has gone to the next one > And the event reward for the end of meta is really poor > Its really bad for a 2 hour map meta > You can just click on the camps in the map and teleport to them with some map currency fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyreo.8517 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Is this generally where people are giving feedback? I hope so. Mine's not about the map mechanics, which I think are fine as much as I've seen. It's good to do something a bit different. I'm definitely not saying I'm disappointed, and I really liked the intrigue factor as things got worse and worse. I understand the necessary story beats of expecting betrayal from smodur and malice, and hoping that ryland would listen to reason and losing that chance, and the reveal of the frost legion matching up with that promo visual from way back at the start of the icebrood saga. Butttt, I just kept feeling like things moved slowly, and that it had to be building up to something a bit bigger. I don't think it's down to the as-yet-unvoiced dialogue, it just had kind of an 'oh. that's it?' quality to it. I can't help comparing it to Season 4, which to me was the most perfectly balanced in pacing and content. The 'we're not holding back content for expansions any more' season. The 'we wanted to keep Joko around for longer but made the correct decision to off him at his most enjoyable for the sake of the story', it all worked. The Joko parts managed to be full of tension and peril despite also being the funniest content in the game. The episodes after that were dynamic with the pull of Aurene's fate and our emotional tether to her. I might feel that way because in season 4 we had a huge personal stake in aurene. It was the Commander's story. But in Icebrood Saga we've been following the stories of our other characters - which is great and fine! - but without Aurene directly in the mix, what *is* the Commander's part in this story? Rytlock could have been the one doing all the things we did in this episode. I'm missing others in the cast too! I miss Taimi and Rox and Canach. I always assume you know when to swap the current cast around for the best results. But it's been a solid chain of eps with Rytlock and Crecia... I just hope we'll switch up again shortly. Kasmeer and Logan in this one didnt seem to do a great deal. I remember what it was like exploring say, Jahai, with the layers and layers of lore and history (villages from gw1! side stories about djinn!) and compared to that, No Quarter looks sort of like a mini-episode that only toed the plot slightly forward. I don't want this to sound too critical. I think the map is gorgeous and i cannot WAIT to explore more to sightsee. I enjoyed the events I found with the cool feeling of mowing down tons of enemies with the other players. I know Anet isn't the same company it was back then and there are pressures and difficulties right now too, I hope bringing up S4 isn't unfair. I just felt like the stakes kept raising, and I was sitting back, waiting to really *enjoy* it. It's all extremely serious, necessarily so. But we've also usually had Joko or Gorrik or Canach around to add some levity... without disrupting the tension. Right now, I know that would be hard to do. I did get really invested in the drama when it asked me if I wanted to drop a bomb down the shaft and picked no ("we", rytlock? "we"??) and started wildly guessing at how wrong things would go. That was well implemented. There's one aspect to this ep that IS pure genius, and that's slotting in the Steel warband strike mission beforehand. We learned SO much about the opposition through that. I know for sure if they'd said 'by the way Ryland, your warband is dead' without that strike mission, I would hardly care, but putting us in their shoes for a while , with as much characterisation as they had, worked a miracle in drawing me in. That was brilliant and perfectly implemented, although I do still hope perhaps Smodur was lying and one of them will pop back up later? Anyway it's not that I think the angle was off here. We had an opportunity to try to bring Ryland around and lost it because we made him want to be our enemy. Can't fight extremism by pretending the other side are walking targets and not people with feelings that made them that way, SMODUR. I do wonder if having the episode open with Ryland in a parlay didn't just water down the effort to get him for a second one, though? That felt a bit circuitous. I really was expecting a little more plot-meat? Like, hey, how's Primordus? How's the other dragon magically tied to the one we know is waking and corrupting people? How about all those dwarves that got themselves turned over to Primordus that we met in that strike? What's up with that? On this map that's REALLY close to Slaver's Exile?? What's up with thissssss Anyway sorry for all that, I'll be looking forward to Guild Chat later on and as always, eager for the next part in a few months! Well done for getting your release up during quarantine and all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarySueLlama.8136 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 I appreciate very much that they released this episode in spite of current world events- the voice actors are great, and I look forward to the voice version, but I'm really glad to have had new story content to play sooner than later. This episode overall was well done IMO. Not my favorite, but still enjoyed it. PROS: -Probably the prettiest Ascalon-ish map I've seen yet. The stark autumny colors in places like Diessa are a bit hard on my eyes sometimes, but this area is really lovely. (actually not really sure whether it's part of Ascalon or not, but it's pretty nonetheless.) -Powerful tension created by Smodur- he was a timebomb waiting to go off and it was edge-of-the-seat waiting to see where the shoe was gonna drop. I'm genuinely disgusted by him now, he really stole a lot of the show in this episode and I'm looking forward to seeing him get what he deserves at some point. -Intense follow-up to Visions of the Past as well, after having done a long, grueling battle alongside the Steel warband and gotten to like the characters. It hit a lot harder to see what happened to them in this episode; honestly I got more attached to them than I am to Ryland, so it sucks to have to fight them in this one. They had some good dialogue in the Visions instance. -The airstrike horn at the end of the story, and during the meta, is genuinely unsettling, and I saw someone else saying that too. I'm actually more creeped out by it than the sound of the dragons roaring tbh. -The Tengu journal and rock-carving thing is awesome. It's an interesting way to collect weapon skins, and the area having been inhabited by Tengu makes me curious about its history. (I know that it might not ever come up directly in the narrative, but it still gives the area a certain extra appeal to have "history" to it revealed by pieces of a journal.) -The cost of teleporting to the different outposts feels pretty reasonable, considering how much currency other things can cost in the game. -Nice to have something new to use gossamer scraps for, since the bolts don't sell for much on the TP. CONS: -I didn't like having to drop the grenade in the hole after getting the choice to say no. I know Rytlock is supposed to be rash sometimes, but idk if he really would've been like "we have to throw it in" as quickly as he did, especially given how much he hates Smodur and how he had literally just agreed with me that something seemed off. It just felt a little hamhanded to me, I feel like I don't want to be given the choice if it's going to be forced to happen anyway--just have some other NPCs steal it from us and do the dirty work or something if it can't be avoided. -I didn't like running out of chest keys so quickly in the Keeper part of the meta, I'm hoping it won't turn out to be expensive/exhausting to grind the keys and purchase them ahead of the meta. -I had a pretty easy time getting around with a skyscale, but I'm not sure if a lot of the vistas and journal pages etc can even be reached with other mounts in this map? It looks like it would be tough in some spots. If this map can't be completed 100% without a skyscale, then that's not cool- I don't think every other mount should be made obsolete even if the skyscale has been out for a while, because it still takes forever for a new player to grind the collection for it since some of the components are timegated, and the stinky sausage costs a lot of money on the TP. I'm a longtime player but I've only had my skyscale for like 2 weeks, so the frustration is still very recent, it sucks when you can't keep up with a meta because most people have the mount and you don't. (*cough Dragonfall*) -I kind of alluded to this before, I'm still not feeling super emotional one way or another about Ryland- I only care what happens to him because he's Rytlock's kid. Maybe if Braham showed up again somewhere, since they had that instance with being drinking buddies and then the scuffle over the bow, maybe that would give opportunity for a bit more depth of character development on Ryland's part or something. -So the rest here applies to Icebrood Saga in general for me, not just this episode: this Charr civil war is interesting, well-done content, but tbh it feels like there's been civil war amongst the Charr throughout all of GW2 anyway because of the Flame Legion. So for me it's not like, as super crazy-awesome mind-bending interesting as other things could be, when there's the whole GW world to pick from. Reading up on how sometimes the devs don't have time to include certain things in the story (for example, Malyck and the existence of other Pale Trees), I feel like, if there's a limit on what aspects of the GW world we get to see, there's other stuff that would be more unique and interesting than this. We've seen a lot of Charr and Human stuff at this point. A decent amount of Norn stuff I think, though the Bjora lore fell a bit short for me. I'd love to understand more about how Sylvari came to be, though they're also a fairly new race, so there's not a huge ton of history there, and they had a lot of presence in HoT. How about something like a season focused on Asuran history, like something showing flashbacks of their escape from Primordus and them coming to the surface for the first time- something having to do with Asuran culture itself, and not just having them appear whenever their technology is needed? We got a teaser of Asuran history with Rata Novus, but it still didn't feel like it got explored to a satisfying extent, at least for me. We know that they're not just arrogant nerdy rat people, because we've seen characters like Taimi, Blish, and Gorrik with all different facets to their personalities, weaknesses they try not to reveal about themselves, etc, that kind of thing. We see cranky older NPCs like Phlunt, and that guy in Rata Sum who talks about hanging by his ears from a signpost. What was life like for these elderly Asura when they were kids? How developed was Rata Sum? What made these old people so cranky and cynical when they've got the most convenient tech out there? When and how did the Inquest start? Why do some Asura run off and join run-of-the-mill Tyrian pirate crews, like in Gendarran Fields or Bloodtide Coast- are they frustrated by technology and the pressure to innovate all the time? Do they want to be around non-Asura for various reasons? Do they genuinely think it's a good business venture, in spite of the danger and the uncertainty of being able to find good plunder? We got a bit of story on the Olmakhan who branched off from the other Charr for example, I thought that was a really cool concept. Are there Asura like that? Also, how is Zojja doing after all this time? Some of my wording on this may sound kind of silly I know, but I really do think there's a lot more Anet could do with Asura as a whole- for one of the playable races, they just don't really feel like they get as much depth as the others, they seem more like comic relief characters who are convenient for tech reasons--I'd really like to see the main story of GW2 go in a direction that's a bit less redundant than another Charr civil war. The Charr power-vacuum-without-Branded thing totally makes sense, don't get me wrong, but there doesn't have to be a whole season focused solely on it. It could be a side plot, or something that happens partially offscreen and is discussed by the Dragon's Watch members while doing something else. I'm hoping for some DSD content at some point, and it'd be cool if other aspects of the world could branch out in the story as well. There's a lot of cool stuff in the GW world to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 > @"Pyreo.8517" said: > Is this generally where people are giving feedback? I hope so. > > Mine's not about the map mechanics, which I think are fine as much as I've seen. It's good to do something a bit different. > > I'm definitely not saying I'm disappointed, and I really liked the intrigue factor as things got worse and worse. I understand the necessary story beats of expecting betrayal from smodur and malice, and hoping that ryland would listen to reason and losing that chance, and the reveal of the frost legion matching up with that promo visual from way back at the start of the icebrood saga. Butttt, I just kept feeling like things moved slowly, and that it had to be building up to something a bit bigger. I don't think it's down to the as-yet-unvoiced dialogue, it just had kind of an 'oh. that's it?' quality to it. > > I can't help comparing it to Season 4, which to me was the most perfectly balanced in pacing and content. The 'we're not holding back content for expansions any more' season. The 'we wanted to keep Joko around for longer but made the correct decision to off him at his most enjoyable for the sake of the story', it all worked. The Joko parts managed to be full of tension and peril despite also being the funniest content in the game. The episodes after that were dynamic with the pull of Aurene's fate and our emotional tether to her. I might feel that way because in season 4 we had a huge personal stake in aurene. It was the Commander's story. But in Icebrood Saga we've been following the stories of our other characters - which is great and fine! - but without Aurene directly in the mix, what *is* the Commander's part in this story? Rytlock could have been the one doing all the things we did in this episode. I'm missing others in the cast too! I miss Taimi and Rox and Canach. I always assume you know when to swap the current cast around for the best results. But it's been a solid chain of eps with Rytlock and Crecia... I just hope we'll switch up again shortly. Kasmeer and Logan in this one didnt seem to do a great deal. > > I remember what it was like exploring say, Jahai, with the layers and layers of lore and history (villages from gw1! side stories about djinn!) and compared to that, No Quarter looks sort of like a mini-episode that only toed the plot slightly forward. I don't want this to sound too critical. I think the map is gorgeous and i cannot WAIT to explore more to sightsee. I enjoyed the events I found with the cool feeling of mowing down tons of enemies with the other players. I know Anet isn't the same company it was back then and there are pressures and difficulties right now too, I hope bringing up S4 isn't unfair. I just felt like the stakes kept raising, and I was sitting back, waiting to really *enjoy* it. It's all extremely serious, necessarily so. But we've also usually had Joko or Gorrik or Canach around to add some levity... without disrupting the tension. Right now, I know that would be hard to do. I did get really invested in the drama when it asked me if I wanted to drop a bomb down the shaft and picked no ("we", rytlock? "we"??) and started wildly guessing at how wrong things would go. That was well implemented. > > There's one aspect to this ep that IS pure genius, and that's slotting in the Steel warband strike mission beforehand. We learned SO much about the opposition through that. I know for sure if they'd said 'by the way Ryland, your warband is dead' without that strike mission, I would hardly care, but putting us in their shoes for a while , with as much characterisation as they had, worked a miracle in drawing me in. That was brilliant and perfectly implemented, although I do still hope perhaps Smodur was lying and one of them will pop back up later? > > Anyway it's not that I think the angle was off here. We had an opportunity to try to bring Ryland around and lost it because we made him want to be our enemy. Can't fight extremism by pretending the other side are walking targets and not people with feelings that made them that way, SMODUR. I do wonder if having the episode open with Ryland in a parlay didn't just water down the effort to get him for a second one, though? That felt a bit circuitous. > > I really was expecting a little more plot-meat? Like, hey, how's Primordus? How's the other dragon magically tied to the one we know is waking and corrupting people? How about all those dwarves that got themselves turned over to Primordus that we met in that strike? What's up with that? On this map that's REALLY close to Slaver's Exile?? What's up with thissssss > > Anyway sorry for all that, I'll be looking forward to Guild Chat later on and as always, eager for the next part in a few months! Well done for getting your release up during quarantine and all! Yeah, it really feels like the story part has been pretty slow so far. I think the gravity of the circumstances and constant cliffhanger last season got to be a little tiresome at times, but this season just feels extremely slow so far. We've had deaths this season but for some reason they don't feel as significant as last season. I just don't really feel emotionally invested in any of the main players this season. I mean, I like Rhytlock, but beyond that none of this feels like something I'm personally interested in or something that I feel like the "Commander" should even be involved in. Maybe it's the militaristic mindset that just doesn't appeal to me. The whole honor, glory, and tactics shtick. I guess to some degree that's how it's always been but it didn't feel as front and center as it does with this plot. Not to mention we essentially traded bratty emo Bram for bratty brainwashed Ryland. It also feels like yet again, we're just in a random area with a bunch of stuff that seems like it should have more story integration but just doesn't. Like, why are all these random bunkers here? Who built all these structures like the houses? Are we assuming these are Charr houses? We're in an area known for Tengu, yet all we see are a few tints and from what I can gather some hidden npc somewhere from reading map chat? It just feels like a very short, very focused, and very ... just for the sake of having one... story so far. I just completed the story so I haven't really played it that much, but it doesn't really feel like something I'd want to do over again. A few lines of dialogue, going from point a to point b, and then a story instance or two that feel pretty insignificant. Maybe it's just difficult to adjust to a slower pace centered around a much more narrow story that's significantly more trivial in comparison to what we've been dealing with the past 5 years or so. I think some people will probably really enjoy the story so far, the characters, the pace, and the plot. Last season I feel like I was eagerly waiting for new episodes because of the sometimes exhausting cliffhangers, but this season I'm just eagerly waiting for something to happen in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helreginn.1894 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 If this is the feedback thread, I guess I'll drop mine here as well. The map took my breath away. It was definitely the prettiest, most picturesque map I've seen in this game. It's amazing what they've managed to push on their current engine, and how far. The events were fun and hectic, and I'll probably spend a while doing them though I do wonder how it'll be once the population evens out a bit. I'm so happy to see Snarl and Galina, and even the member of Charr Commander's warband turning up once more...it made me super nostalgic. Thank you, for putting them back into the story, even if briefly, just to let us know they exist. As for the story, I think I was really enjoying myself, until at the very last instance where rather than thwarting Smodur's conspicuously shitty behaviour, the Commander just stands there twiddling their thumbs. Doesn't call Rytlock out for murdering tons of innocent people and then just goes around peaceably. None of that made sense. Smodur was the equivalent of a poorly-written villain going muwahaha in the hero's face, and the hero being too dull to notice that the evil-seeming person will commit evil deeds. Smodur's entire characters seems to have been cannibalised to fit the narrative, and okay, while I could believe that he wants to grab power in the vacuum left behind by Bangar, is that really the best way? Executing soldiers left and right when your side is already bleeding soldiers to join the other side. Throwing a Searing (SEARING!!!) Crystal on friendlies or simply non-combatants and the Commander doesn't even do anything about it. They don't even set the record straight with Rytlock, much less Smodur while he smarms the rest of the episode. He's not charismatic; he's not a leader anyone would want to follow, as the Flame Shaman section bit seemed to imply. Now, if by any chance, we are going into a direction where all of the Charr willingly go join Kylo Ren--I mean, Ryland, and we have to make harsh choices to protect the Charr who can still be saved, by say, helping Malice or Efram. Like, the story can go all in on a full-on massive scale defeat against the Frost Legion because the Commander made a stupid choice by implicitly standing with Smodur's powergrab. Like, Smodur infuriated me to the point that if Bangar and Ky--Ryland weren't turning their own people into willing minions of Jormag, I'd happily go side with him. I had this issue in episode 2 as well where the Commander just stands there in idle animation while Bangar shoots them in a very undisguised fashion. If the Commander's so easy to kill (yes, yes, I know they weren't expecting to be shot there), would they really make it through seven campaigns? It really feels like our MC is a nonentity in the grand scheme of things, when that has never been the case in GW2 story proper. They don't need to usurp the authority in Charr hierarchy, but they're not a no-name adventurer tagging along because they happen to be the MC, y'know. I mean, at least Jormag won't be bad as a Palpatine-equivalent lmao... That being said, it's not like all is lost...we're what? Halfway through the Saga, so I'm sure there are surprises the narrative team has in store which might mitigate or even remove my complaints altogether. I always have hope that the story can recover because it has, many times, in the past. tl;dr: loved the episode, hated the last instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helreginn.1894 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 > @"cptaylor.2670" said: > I think some people will probably really enjoy the story so far, the characters, the pace, and the plot. Last season I feel like I was eagerly waiting for new episodes because of the sometimes exhausting cliffhangers, but this season I'm just eagerly waiting for something to happen in general. I agree absolutely with this point. The cliffhangers last season were a bit exhausting, but at least it was something to look forward to. This time around none of the plot threads are being addressed or resolved in any coherent manner? What about the Commander being tempted by Jormag's offer? Why can't we follow up on that? Why doesn't the Commander leave the Charr civil war to the Charr and take their guild and go deep into Jormag territory to stop Bangar? like, why are they stuck in politicking and strategising when that has never been their strong point...it just feels like artificial padding at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo.4705 Posted May 27, 2020 Author Share Posted May 27, 2020 @"Randulf.7614" About your concern about map location, here is my thought: Bangar wants the charrs to be the superior race, and I definitely think he is against ebonhawke treaty. He shared its mindset to Ryland and that's why he leave when kasmeer and logan arrive. To me, woodland cascades were mostly occupied by Humans. With some Tengu encampment, a Norn Town, A charr harbor and a dredge/dwarve mine. That's why he aimed here, to kill humans because he hate them. The north of the map is frost and ice and icebrood, my guess is that the north of the map doesn't feature Jormag as well, and that we will return to the right, under drakkar lake location. There is a well known norn encampment here based on gw1 historical map. "Olafstead". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigerk.2897 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 I liked the episode a lot, and the current season so far. I've been able to play more or less back to back, with only a 2 week wait for this episode (returnign player). I guess I maybe in the minority but I think I like the story telling this season more than in previous ones. I don't mind that it is slow, it doesn't feel too slow to me. But I do wonder if having to wait between episodes would have changed that for me. I can see this being the case with them splitting Bjora as they did. I remember playing episode one and then it just stopped and I was like, oh, that was it. But I could continue straight onto episode 2 which makes up for it. I played this as a Charr and there's some nice touches added to it when you do. Nothing major but a few nods, which for me helps a lot. I agree with the Commander at times feeling like a pushover/non entity. I would have like a few more options to take charge, especially in the face of (avoidable) atrocities. Not necessarily being able to stop them, but at least be a bit more lively about it. I'm Iron Legion, so I'm not sure how this influences the story surrounding Smodur, maybe other legions get to be a bit more snarky. I feel there's been some missed opportunities to flesh out Charr player characters depending on their choice of Legion. For instance, being Commander but also an Iron Legion centurion could allow for some amazing player character development. You have your overarching goals of dealing with the ED's, but also personal stakes in this as you are both Charr, and Iron Legion, which could have set up interesting interactions with seeing Smodur, your boss essentially, go off the rails like that. Loved the drop it or not moment. Made me stop and think. I liked Ryland, I don't find him nearly annoying as Braham was a while ago. I have the feeling we still know very little of his true motives and what goes on inside him, which I guess allows me to be more lenient in attitude towards him. Definitely got some light Hardhome vibes from the ending. All in all, the episode worked for me, with the sense of escalating tensions, the way it managed to portray the conflict as something messy and chaotic, at least at times, elevated it for me from previous story beats. Some things were honestly hard to predict, there wasn't this sense of safety regarding npc characters and I knew enough about most of them to care what happened to them. I think before this season aired they said they'd wanted to go in a darker direction, and if they keep it up like this, I have good hopes for what is to come. As for unresolved threads in the story, I think we will see those picked up over the next few episodes. I have the feeling that in this season they're taking their time setting up various threads that hopefully all come together in a satisfying way later. Fingers crossed for that. Favourite things: - The ''drop it or not'' moment. - The visuals of the final instance (Hardhome vibes). - Sense of escalation. Things I didn't like so much: - Rytlock and Crecia's attitude towards Ryland feels a bit out of character considering what we've been shown of Charr culture. Its written decently enough to not be too jarring, but it does feel ooc at times. - Lack of PC autonomy. The drop it moment was a step in the right direction, but I would have liked to see more of this. Felt a little too much like a pawn, and not the legendary Commander who kills gods and dragons. More use of Charr pc's background would have been nice too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezuzel.4987 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 > @"MarySueLlama.8136" said: > -I had a pretty easy time getting around with a skyscale, but I'm not sure if a lot of the vistas and journal pages etc can even be reached with other mounts in this map? It looks like it would be tough in some spots. If this map can't be completed 100% without a skyscale, then that's not cool- I don't think every other mount should be made obsolete even if the skyscale has been out for a while, because it still takes forever for a new player to grind the collection for it since some of the components are timegated, and the stinky sausage costs a lot of money on the TP. I'm a longtime player but I've only had my skyscale for like 2 weeks, so the frustration is still very recent, it sucks when you can't keep up with a meta because most people have the mount and you don't. (*cough Dragonfall*) I was curious, so I just tested it with an alt. I'm happy to say map completion is quite easy and 100% possible with just a bunny and a raptor. (Disclaimer: I have all the mount masteries, if that makes a difference.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMan.6189 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 > @"hugo.4705" said: > So where to start? Welp anyway here your rate: 17/20! > > So, first well, the map. I like the map. The ambient dialogue, the landscapes.... Very diversified map and it's lovely, there is a mill, a charr submarine port, a mine, some human villages, some norns structures et charr encampment. The map is between to me, Caledon forest and Kessex hills: A very nice rocky-forest. You heave the east part really coastal, middle more mountainous and the left really forest. I liked the charr helicopter with a charr near it that you can ask to be dropped somewhere on the map with a parachute. > > The story, well as planned, Steel warband are dead and well whereas I think they could have allied with us, it is surely better if no use was planned for them later. I liked the different Imperators personalities, but what was a big plus for me is the several points of the instances where you could CHOOSE an option: As example, during the debate, then later about dropping bomb or not, it's a good thing because depending on what is chosen some steps and dialogue change and that is amazing. I liked the stealth instance within dominion hideout. > And I had a big laugh at the end seeing minister of morale sending on me propaganda balloons and crazy charr tanks, a big oof laugh. And a kind of funny joke too, fight more appreciated than the one I had with Almorra before. About cynder, bad smodur killed her but welp. The fight was okay but expected more for a steel warband member. > > The mechanics. Definitely fan of the blueprints: You picked the good thing, and removed the bad part: It acts like WvW sieges but you don't lose time building them and that's pretty cool! > You also reused some mechanics experienced in grothmar like having balloons to shoot with rifle, but shooting charrcopter with charrzooka was fun too (just little buggy, sometimes missiles don't reach target or it's obstructed). The events in general are okay: Defend x, escort Y, Capture Z but I think it fit a context of war. The masteries are pretty cool too. > > The ambiance: Well as said before, good ambient dialogues. During the last instance, I also liked the fact that on the bridge there were several boneskinners along ice giants and those F A B U L O U S icebrood charrs! They are very well, I enjoy their look. > > Others: I'm very happy to finally have canopee/pine trees as gh decos and definitely want to buy several of them. Through I feel a lack in rewards, sure you earn several supplies, but haven't spotted yet an infinite tonic or any karma wasting/volatile magic wasting item. About the armors I guess they are behind achievements. > > To sum up imho it's a good map, they picked good things from grothmar and added a caledonish setting with a cup of WvW on that. I enjoy the map, may be the Third map where I will return a lot after Sandswept Isles and Grothmar Valley. > > My only complain is the tuning of the strike mission, we are 5 in a public instance, and the boss seems to have just too much hp, it goes does of 1 each 45 secs.... I Can agree with all of this, especially having more times you get to choose the story, yet when you have to choose dropping the bomb or not into the vent, it does not let you have an opinion. When you click to not drop the bomb, it does nothing to continue the story, it does absolutely nothing, forcing you to drop the bomb. Anet may change this because (for me while putting this) it's only the day after the release of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bast.7253 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 > @"JMan.6189" said: > > @"hugo.4705" said: > > So where to start? Welp anyway here your rate: 17/20! > > > > So, first well, the map. I like the map. The ambient dialogue, the landscapes.... Very diversified map and it's lovely, there is a mill, a charr submarine port, a mine, some human villages, some norns structures et charr encampment. The map is between to me, Caledon forest and Kessex hills: A very nice rocky-forest. You heave the east part really coastal, middle more mountainous and the left really forest. I liked the charr helicopter with a charr near it that you can ask to be dropped somewhere on the map with a parachute. > > > > The story, well as planned, Steel warband are dead and well whereas I think they could have allied with us, it is surely better if no use was planned for them later. I liked the different Imperators personalities, but what was a big plus for me is the several points of the instances where you could CHOOSE an option: As example, during the debate, then later about dropping bomb or not, it's a good thing because depending on what is chosen some steps and dialogue change and that is amazing. I liked the stealth instance within dominion hideout. > > And I had a big laugh at the end seeing minister of morale sending on me propaganda balloons and crazy charr tanks, a big oof laugh. And a kind of funny joke too, fight more appreciated than the one I had with Almorra before. About cynder, bad smodur killed her but welp. The fight was okay but expected more for a steel warband member. > > > > The mechanics. Definitely fan of the blueprints: You picked the good thing, and removed the bad part: It acts like WvW sieges but you don't lose time building them and that's pretty cool! > > You also reused some mechanics experienced in grothmar like having balloons to shoot with rifle, but shooting charrcopter with charrzooka was fun too (just little buggy, sometimes missiles don't reach target or it's obstructed). The events in general are okay: Defend x, escort Y, Capture Z but I think it fit a context of war. The masteries are pretty cool too. > > > > The ambiance: Well as said before, good ambient dialogues. During the last instance, I also liked the fact that on the bridge there were several boneskinners along ice giants and those F A B U L O U S icebrood charrs! They are very well, I enjoy their look. > > > > Others: I'm very happy to finally have canopee/pine trees as gh decos and definitely want to buy several of them. Through I feel a lack in rewards, sure you earn several supplies, but haven't spotted yet an infinite tonic or any karma wasting/volatile magic wasting item. About the armors I guess they are behind achievements. > > > > To sum up imho it's a good map, they picked good things from grothmar and added a caledonish setting with a cup of WvW on that. I enjoy the map, may be the Third map where I will return a lot after Sandswept Isles and Grothmar Valley. > > > > My only complain is the tuning of the strike mission, we are 5 in a public instance, and the boss seems to have just too much hp, it goes does of 1 each 45 secs.... > > I Can agree with all of this, especially having more times you get to choose the story, yet when you have to choose dropping the bomb or not into the vent, it does not let you have an opinion. When you click to not drop the bomb, it does nothing to continue the story, it does absolutely nothing, forcing you to drop the bomb. Anet may change this because (for me while putting this) it's only the day after the release of the story. If you choose not to drop the grenade, Rhytlock will do it for you. There's a bit of dialogue about it being the only option from him first. Maybe it just bugged for you or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzekul.3104 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Honest feedback, perhaps a bit pointed, but honest. Limited (as much as possible) spoilers. **The Good** The map design is amazing, and as always is very immersive. I am impressed that your map designers can deliver such high quality maps over and over and over. PvP and WvW reward tracks unlocked early-ish (could have been even earlier I suppose). No major complaint except this still comes after the story-gate (see below). Sadly, that is all on completion of the story. Maybe there is more to add from the meta, but for the things I highlight below, I have no interest in spending more time on this map. When the VO gets added, I will probably reconsider, or in the very least, run the story on another character and decide after. **The Bad** The overall main points of the story are fine, but some of the tiny details are a bit absurd, and ruin the immersion. Bloody hell! I am the fricking Commander of the Pact and I am reduced to fetch quests for a suddenly megalomanical background character who seems to be "a good guy" possessed by Jormag? His behaviour is VERY different than in earlier episodes, and earlier stories/seasons. Who decides detail like this? This is not "advanced writing"; maybe it could be with a different implementation, but you need to achieve and maintain very high levels of immersion for that. The repeated ignoring of the message that nobody likes story-gates. The second "act" is yet another story-gate where you have to "be seen" doing stuff. I understand the story reasons for this, and they make sense. But people hate this kind of content .... deeply. It's like you have placed a Reknown Heart into the game without calling it a Reknown Heart. **The Ugly** Tough call on launching this content without the VO, but I feel it really lacks immersion without the VO and I would not have grumbled if you decided to delay launching the content until the VO was available (assuming the delay would have been limited to about 2-3 months max). Hindsight makes it easier to say this, I guess. I do not envy some of the decisions you may have to make if the VO delay lasts into 2021. It all depends upon politics around the Corona virus situation I guess (sad that this is such a big influence). Overall summary: 5/10, and similar to most story content in S5, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 I was previously praising the episode in another thread (the official one), but now that I have played through the meta cycle twice, I have to say: **The meta events are way too frequent, overlapping, and therefore hectic.** Jumping west to east, north to south, and back again - oof! :/ I preferred Dragonfall by far. Not a fan of this map's meta design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memoranda.9386 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 It's very WvW-esque. You need coverage and organization to succeed, and I think that's fine. I enjoyed it this far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauderi.8706 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Not done yet, but.. So far, I like the map and the faux-wvw style. Loot just kind of rains at steady intervals and rewards holding command points. Little details like snipers that harass roamers were a nice touch. Aaand, then there's the GW2 stun-fetish... Every mob has, yet again, some kind of disable, knockback, or other irritant on a superlatively short cooldown. It's a little *too* much like WvW... But I'm glad to see individual enemies with seemingly robust skill kits. I've seen turrets and guardians and greatswords. +1 for that! Also needled that achievements and optional objectives still seem to be bugged. Went out of my way to get the EMP for the first mission aaaand, it doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurana.7506 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 I really like the new map and the story. I'm definitely no WvW fan, but I think they handled the WvW style very well for this map, it's really fun. I even found myself a little bit roleplaying in the way that I sneeked behind the enemy line and took out several enemies with my deadeye commander. It was really fun. > @"Adzekul.3104" said: > **The Bad** > The overall main points of the story are fine, but some of the tiny details are a bit absurd, and ruin the immersion. Bloody hell! I am the fricking Commander of the Pact and I am reduced to fetch quests for a suddenly megalomanical background character who seems to be "a good guy" possessed by Jormag? I didn't find this absurd. We were the pact commander before but resigned from our position. So the title's just a former title. Technically we're just a guild leader by now and we have more power and influence than a usual guild leader because of our past and what we're doing. But we have no power on the charr legions and for their leaders we are just a normal soldier. At least fo the leaders who aren't impressed by our past - Smodur. Others like Malice don't treat us like a normal soldier out of respect. We help the united legions but we do not command them. But we are good in what we're doing so I think it's pretty logical that we have a few extra missions. This is the thing: we are well known but we don't hold any institutional or military power. All the influence qnd power we have is because some people listen to us out of respect to what we did in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller.7496 Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 The story was incredibly short. Outside of fetch quests and "fill this bar to make this content feel longer" there was maybe 15 minutes of story content. It felt strange having the game make such a big deal about caring about some charr in a cave when you've been killing them by the hundreds in map events. Even if you knew them, I was with Smodur on that one (although not what he pulled later on). I wished that my character would've had a bit more agency on the events. It mainly felt like I was an errand boy and didn't even say anything at the final negotiations. I mean, my character (a charr) has so much experience with the ED's, maybe I could try to reason with Ryland one more time? The ice-brooding of the army was clear the moment they started this story so it was no surprise. I am guessing they twist is that the more prominent charr get to keep a bit of their thought, although what's-her-name in the final battle went all RAARRGH KILL anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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