Give Necro a block/evade frame

[whoknocks.4935]

Every single profession have access to either block or evade frame or both in their weapons.

 

I'm not asking for some crazy duration skill, just a 2 seconds block incoming attacks maybe on an offhand weapon to help you reposition yourself in solo situations.

 

I know core necro and reaper are in a really good pvp state in terms of team fighters, but the difference between playing reaper and holo for example is insane for me.

 

With holo i can play while eating or not watching the screen, i can side node, team fight, roam, i can stealth, block, reflect, invuln, cleanse, big burst damage and sustain for days.

With reaper if i forget to position my worm or i position myself poorly i die in 1 second, the difference in learning curve is huge.

 

And shroud is a completely extra health bar i know, but at some point you are forced to exit and if your "real" healthbar goes to zero shroud won't save you and as soon you exit you are dead.

 

All the necro kit is just power or condi damage without a single defensive utility.

 

Maybe change Reaper Greatsword4 to "Any attack you receive will miss Blinding the attackers for 2 seconds". Of course if the enemy has resistance will be still able to hit you, but this will work against rangers from 1500 range.

 

Maybe a block on dagger5?

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

nah. maybe a tele on dag 3 and a leap on gs 3 but no blocks/ evades.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> Every single profession have access to either block or evade frame or both in their weapons.

>

> I'm not asking for some crazy duration skill, just a 2 seconds block incoming attacks maybe on an offhand weapon to help you reposition yourself in solo situations.

>

> I know core necro and reaper are in a really good pvp state in terms of team fighters, but the difference between playing reaper and holo for example is insane for me.

>

> With holo i can play while eating or not watching the screen, i can side node, team fight, roam, i can stealth, block, reflect, invuln, cleanse, big burst damage and sustain for days.

> With reaper if i forget to position my worm or i position myself poorly i die in 1 second, the difference in learning curve is huge.

>

> And shroud is a completely extra health bar i know, but at some point you are forced to exit and if your "real" healthbar goes to zero shroud won't save you and as soon you exit you are dead.

>

> All the necro kit is just power or condi damage without a single defensive utility.

>

> Maybe change Reaper Greatsword4 to "Any attack you receive will miss Blinding the attackers for 2 seconds". Of course if the enemy has resistance will be still able to hit you, but this will work against rangers from 1500 range.

>

> Maybe a block on dagger5?

>

> What do you guys think?

>

>

>

 

give mesmer 10k hp shield. nothing crazy like 40-50k shield necro has only 10k.

I know I have stealth and dodges but I would like to have 10k hp shield too :)

[Aktium.9506]

At most maybe a short range teleport on GS3 for Reaper. Talking shorter than Guardian Sword 2 so like 400-500 range tops. It's honestly not very needed though. I would rather see Relentless Pursuit get something like just a flat immunity to movement-impairing conditions and higher base speed in Shroud so you don't have to run Rune of Speed.

 

Offhand Dagger could do with some buffs or just an update on the skills. The path tracking on Deathly Swarm is dreadful since its not actually a projectile and travels along the ground so if there is any elevation change whatsoever between you and the target it won't register as a hit. Enfeebling Blood has a telegraph and cast speed slow enough that you'd think it was an utterly devastatingly strong skill that the enemy must be allowed to see so they can properly dodge it. But it sure as hell isn't that strong.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Necro having access to 30k+ life with shroud is more then enough that they dont need blocks or evade frames....if you cant generate enough life force in the moments you need it, play better or change your build.

 

If u can do all those things with holo then maybe holo needs alot of nerfing instead of buffing necro.

I like to change holo to be in line with necro. So that maybe holo isnt just a spam class with every utility from blocks to leaps to invul to invis, it litterally has everyrhing except for teleport.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Are u serious lmao the class is brainless spam whether reaper bursting or condi build tied with a carry mechanic, almost dead oh shit second hp bar, and u want blocks to? Lmao wtf is with this community, does no one not want to be carried anymore in this game?

[hotte in space.2158]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Are u serious lmao the class is brainless spam whether reaper bursting or condi build tied with a carry mechanic, almost dead oh kitten second hp bar

You forgot to mention teleport and swiftness. Give necro a nerf instead of a block !

[Aktium.9506]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

>almost dead oh kitten second hp bar, and u want blocks to?

The thing with shroud compared to iframes and blocks has always been that a standard shroud with around 17k LF is going to block 34k power dmg/17k condi dmg minus the 4-5% LF decay per second. It's a set number. A block or iframe can potentially negate 200k dmg while its active, although unrealistic, the fact that it can do so remains. Therein the disparity.

 

Shroud becomes incredibly strong when the Necro isn't facing burst damage and is allowed to generate shroud. But it also means that Necro is the only class in the game that can't actually ensure survival against a coordinated enemy team focus. Ergo why targetting the Nec at first engage on mid is standard practice.

 

I personally don't think Necro should have blocks, evades or iframes. Possibly give Scourge some Aegis for support role purposes but definitely not Core or Reaper. If Necro survivability becomes an issue it's better to try and fix it either with offensive zoning capabilites, more LF generation or possibly buffing existing mobility tools like Wurm, Spec Walk and Sand Swell.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"Aktium.9506" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> >almost dead oh kitten second hp bar, and u want blocks to?

> The thing with shroud compared to iframes and blocks has always been that a standard shroud with around 17k LF is going to block 34k power dmg/17k condi dmg

 

Shroud DR applies to conditions.

 

@TopicSubject The current version of necro don't need it and the only way it will get it is in some form of shroud-less spec.

 

[Aktium.9506]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> Shroud DR applies to conditions.

It does? I always felt that condis tear through shroud faster than power.

 

 

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> Every single profession have access to either block or evade frame or both in their weapons.

>

 

Every single profession has way less health compared to a necro with shroud.

 

> I'm not asking for some crazy duration skill, just a 2 seconds block incoming attacks maybe on an offhand weapon to help you reposition yourself in solo situations.

>

> I know core necro and reaper are in a really good pvp state in terms of team fighters, but the difference between playing reaper and holo for example is insane for me.

>

> With holo i can play while eating or not watching the screen, i can side node, team fight, roam, i can stealth, block, reflect, invuln, cleanse, big burst damage and sustain for days.

> With reaper if i forget to position my worm or i position myself poorly i die in 1 second, the difference in learning curve is huge.

>

 

Reaper is literally one of the easiest things to play. I log on it from time to time, get a few 3-4 topstat victories with it, then relog to something else because it's boring. Speed runes and wurm make it one of the most mobile specs in the game, even though necro is supposed to be slow. It's far too OP in need of toning down. If you think reaper is hard, thats an L2P problem on your part. Keep practising.

 

> And shroud is a completely extra health bar i know, but at some point you are forced to exit and if your "real" healthbar goes to zero shroud won't save you and as soon you exit you are dead.

 

So you know you have 2 healthbars to cope with not having blocks, but you don't care, you want a block anyway.

>

> All the necro kit is just power or condi damage without a single defensive utility.

 

LoL what? You vomit weakness/cripple/chill everywhere, you have 50% movespeed with those busted speed runes, you can just port out with wurm if they jump you, you can transfer/eat up conditions in multiple ways, spectral walk, spectral armor... necro has tons and tons of defensive strategies and utilites at its disposal. I'm starting to think you have no idea how to play necro.

 

>

> Maybe change Reaper Greatsword4 to "Any attack you receive will miss Blinding the attackers for 2 seconds". Of course if the enemy has resistance will be still able to hit you, but this will work against rangers from 1500 range.

>

> Maybe a block on dagger5?

>

> What do you guys think?

>

 

Apart from you not knowing how to necro, the class design is meant to be a slow, durable caster that is either a hard hitting juggernaut(reaper) or outsustains you and wears you down if you fight it fair(core condi). It was literally designed to be something that tanks incoming hits, without the ability to block/evade.

 

Morale of the story, if you want to block attacks as a necromancer, stay close to your guardian.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> Speed runes and wurm make it one of the most mobile specs in the game, even though necro is supposed to be slow. It's far too OP in need of toning down.

 

wat.

a teef complaining about necro mobility. I've heard it all now.

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > Speed runes and wurm make it one of the most mobile specs in the game, even though necro is supposed to be slow. It's far too OP in need of toning down.

>

> wat.

> a teef complaining about necro mobility. I've heard it all now.

 

 

Apparently you play what you're forum avatar picture is. And because an argument is presented by this picture, the logic by which we evaluate it's validity changes, because of course that makes sense!

_The sky is blue? - How would you know silly molerat, you're blind!

Winter comes after autumn? - How would you know polar bear, you never leave the permafrost!

Necromancer can disproportionally benefit from Rune of Speed? - Yeah right, you play thief!_

 

I wish this forum would drop this degenerate way of thinking and actually engage with the actual arguments/statements sometimes. I mean... I kinda understand, it's very easy, but it also makes you look very very not smart.

 

PS - The complaint isn't about necro mobility, it's about Rune of Speed mobility. It's kind of funny how you equate the two.

PPS - If I was a thief one-trick why would I even complain about "necro mobility"? That's literally the only class that doesn't have to care, as their mobility is better. The more I think about your remark the less it makes sense.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> snips

 

well maybe consider a disclaimer. its like someone wearing a postal worker uniform and them being confused when I ask them where my mail is. it kind of is about necro since you claimed it is one of the most mobile classes in the game with speed rune and wurm. anywho I just thought it was kinda funny since necro mobility has always been worst and teef always best.

 

fyi I actually do play snowman. easily best spec.

[girex.8052]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > Speed runes and wurm make it one of the most mobile specs in the game, even though necro is supposed to be slow. It's far too OP in need of toning down.

>

> wat.

> a teef complaining about necro mobility. I've heard it all now.

 

I stopped reading when a teef said necro is the most mobile spec in the game... lol

[Arheundel.6451]

When I see this kind of requests.....why not ask for stealth on necro too at this point?

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> Necro having access to 30k+ life with shroud is more then enough that they dont need blocks or evade frames....if you cant generate enough life force in the moments you need it, play better or change your build.

 

 

It's actually more when you factor in the 50% damage reduction while in Death Shroud and Reaper's Shroud.

 

So on Carrion Amulet even without healing a necro has close to 70,000 effective health while in shroud.

[girex.8052]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> When I see this kind of requests.....why not ask for stealth on necro too at this point?

 

So why things like holo exist?

It has literally everything in their kit.

 

I understand what the OP means and it has a point, of course you cannot give necro a 3 seconds block duration like ranger, everything in their kit is just damage spam, maybe lose some hard hitting skill to gain a self defense skill, maybe a 1-2 second block incoming attacks on dagger5, I don't think everyone would run that and become crazy overtuned and unfair to play against.

 

When you see things like condi rev and holosmith, you literally can even ask to make Necro fly in my opinion lol.

[hotte in space.2158]

Fear has a similar effect as a block + interrupts + can make you fall down + does damage + can be spamed in comparison to blocks all other classes have + much too strong in downstate situations.

Yes give necro a block and remove its fear, deal :)

 

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"girex.8052" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > When I see this kind of requests.....why not ask for stealth on necro too at this point?

>

> So why things like holo exist?

> It has literally everything in their kit.

>

> I understand what the OP means and it has a point, of course you cannot give necro a 3 seconds block duration like ranger, everything in their kit is just damage spam, maybe lose some hard hitting skill to gain a self defense skill, maybe a 1-2 second block incoming attacks on dagger5, I don't think everyone would run that and become crazy overtuned and unfair to play against.

>

> When you see things like condi rev and holosmith, you literally can even ask to make Necro fly in my opinion lol.

 

What do you want me to say? I surely can't blame you for thinking that way and neither can't say you're wrong, after 8 years..I am too financially invested into this game, spent too much to call it quit, this is not what I signed for ...but this is what we have

[Bazsi.2734]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> > snips

>

> well maybe consider a disclaimer. its like someone wearing a postal worker uniform and them being confused when I ask them where my mail is. it kind of is about necro since you claimed it is one of the most mobile classes in the game with speed rune and wurm. anywho I just thought it was kinda funny since necro mobility has always been worst and teef always best.

>

> fyi I actually do play snowman. easily best spec.

 

Oh yes. I disclaim. Hard. Also I'm anti bad things and pro good things. Please don't cancel me wokescolds!

I have an easier fix: stop assuming things and just answer to the actual content of a post. It's not even about me and you, this entire forum is full with bickering where people are dismissing each other based on assumptions based on insufficient information. You are party responsible for this(I admit I'm not even mad, it's becoming enternainingly absurd):

 

> @"girex.8052" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > snips

> I stopped reading when a teef said necro is the most mobile spec in the game... lol

 

The strawman is really building up to be a straw golem at this point. Now I'm not only a thief player, apparently I also think necromancer is THE most mobile spec. Well, this straw-dude is clearly wrong, too bad he doesn't exists! Anyway, here is the argument rehashed one last time, because there is an actual disagreement here:

You said "since necro mobility has always been worst and teef always best". I agree on thief having the best mobility, disagree with necromancer having the worst. That's how it SHOULD be, but permanent swiftness with 66% movement speed in combat means without excessive boonrips/snares a necromancer has the potential to outrun literally anything but thief and shiro/glint revenant.

It would also make snowman much more viable in serious competetive PvP if necromancer was put in it's place. Especially when it requires 0 nerfs to the actual class, just the removal of a rune.

 

OP if you still read this giant tangent hijacking your thread, try the thing we argue about. The combo is Spectral walk(support skill), warhorn offhand on one weaponset, and Rune of Speed. Also you can add in Wurm(the minion skill). You can build a power reaper or a core condi build on this, and you'll find its disturbingly mobile. if you don't get greedy and dont overengage you'll literally always have a cooldown to save your ass. Who needs a 2 second block when you can just outright teleport out of the fight every 30 seconds?

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Bazsi.2734" said:

> The strawman is really building up to be a straw golem at this point.

 

omg how can a thief think necro is the most mobile spec in the game????

 

[Poledra Val.1490]

Obviously necro is not as mobile as thief nothing is but to say Necro is not quite mobile now is questionable when you look at it logically.

 

As for the evade/block frame as others have said it simply does not need it, it has probably the biggest health pool in the game along with some really good defensive utitlities and bottom line is if you are asking for a block and evade frame it means you still have a lot to learn about the class.

[Dadnir.5038]

If it's just about survivability against plain damage, the necromancer's kit already nice enough in sPvP.

 

If it's about coping with hard CC... then yes, block/evade could be nice. People often forget that while a block will negate hard CC, the necromancer's defense through health point won't.

 

That said, ANet seem to think that coping with hard CC is where the necromancer's weakness lie and hammered this fact recently by removing one of the few source of stability that the necromancer had. So you can be pretty sure that ANet have nothing like a block or extra evade frame in store for the necromancer.

[XECOR.2814]

1 mobility tool attached to gs will fix that. It is needed because gs while being reaper specific weapon is still not being used because you cant land hits with gs. My suggestion is make gs3 a 600 range dash. The animation fits perfectly for it and it could look something like this which is amazing and needed for current state of game where everyone is zooming around.